MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Pacific Alliance and Mercosur begin round of ministerial informative meetings
The Pacific Alliance and Mercosur will be holding a two-day ministerial informative meeting in Cartagena de Indias, Colombia, beginning this Friday, a first approach to a possible convergence of the two groupings, according to official releases. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe Pacific Alliance has achieved much more in 4 years than Mercosur has in 24!!!
Oct 31st, 2014 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mercosur will only hold back the PA - hopefully the PA will recognise this and back out.
PA is FOR trade, Mercosur is all about protectionism.
If they actually go through with the integration of the 2 trading blocks, I wonder how long it will take for the Mercosur members to turn the new group into a political forum ??? If I were a member of the Pacific Alliance I'd insist on ironclad rules to guarantee that only (ostensibly) democratic nations be allowed to become members and reap the benefits.
Oct 31st, 2014 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ Jack Bosta
Oct 31st, 2014 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you were a member ?? Wake up idiot!
Stay in your thunderous stupidity already help a lot. You want to talk about what you do not understand idiot !!
Mercosur is already one of the largest trading partners of Chile, Peru and Colombia.
Claim:
Nov 01st, 2014 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Mercosur is already one of the largest trading partners of Chile, Peru and Colombia.”
Fact:
Chile’s top trading partners
Exports: China 23%, EU 16%, USA 12%, Japan 11%, Mercosur 8%
Imports: USA 23%, China 18%, EU 15%, Mercosur 13%
Colombia’s top trading partners
Exports: USA 35%, EU 18%, Mercosur 7%
Imports: USA 25%, China 17%, EU 13%, Mexico 11%, Mercosur 10%
Peru’s top trading partners
Exports: EU 17%, China 17%, USA 14% Switzerland 11%, Canada 8%, Japan 6%, Mercosur 6%
Imports: USA 19%, China 18%, EU 12%, Mercosur 12%
So for a quick comparison. Combined larger trading partners than Mercosur:
Chile
Exports: 62% v Mercosur’s 8%
Imports: 56% v Mercosur’s 13%
Colombia
Exports: 53% v Mercosur’s 7%
Imports: 66% v Mercosur’s 10%
Peru
Exports: 73% v Mercosur’s 6%
Imports: 49% v Mercosur’s 12%
USA, EU and China all overshadow Mercosur. No wonder PA members seek out trade deals with others before Mercosur.
What did Brasileiro say? “You want to talk about what you do not understand idiot !!”
Indeed.
4 game, set, and match!
Nov 01st, 2014 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Canguru Gay
Nov 01st, 2014 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0What is the source of your numbers? IDIOT!
Ooh name calling!
Nov 01st, 2014 - 01:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0You always know you have won an argument when they have to resort to this.
Canguru gay, you think these small numbers of Mercosur? I think you see much bigger things, is not it?
Nov 01st, 2014 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ummm can someone translate that for me?
Nov 01st, 2014 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brasileiro, can you please let the other guy login and have him reply instead.
Oh and yes, Mercosur is small.
Well done Anglotino. Killer facts.
Nov 01st, 2014 - 01:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm concerned that the proposed alliance will drag down the Pacific Alliance. I would hate to see Chile or Colombia sink into the morrass that is engulfing Venezuela.
The difference between Mercosur and the Pacific Alliance is geographical and cant be undone by ideology. Even if everyone agreed on tariffs and free trade you just cant undo the Andes or the Amazon rainforest and river. Mercosur is a Rio de la Plata expression the Pacifice Alliance is more like a FTAA that leaves out Mercosur.
Nov 01st, 2014 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even countries like Ecuador in the Pacific basin, and Venezuela in the Carribbean find themselves importing most of their goods from the US.
This is VERY telling
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwxCnbEIUAAL_Jo.jpg
That Brazil's main importer is the US has more to do with the failure of Argentina to open up its economy and export to Brazil in the last 20 years or so.
I wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of Venezuelan imports are from China, not the US. Certainly clothing, plastic tat and electronic goods from China seem very prevalent in the areas I know there.
Nov 01st, 2014 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most of the food imports come from Latin America and the light crude oil comes in from Algeria. ...
:-/
CD2. Could you rewrite the 3rd sentence of your 1st paragraph please?
Also some context to the image would be useful. What does it represent? Imports? Exports?
Thanks!
If you go by a physical map of South America you will find that Mercosur excluding Vzla is just a cluster of countries that have in common the Rio de la Plata network.
Nov 01st, 2014 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The interior of Brazil is blocked by mountain chains along the cost and therefore they will never be a competitive country. No matter how much resources and cheap labour via devaluations they have. They cant connect north into the Caribbean because of the Amazons.
It takes money and competitiveness to transport produce and goods over geographical barriers.
Excluding Uruguay and Argentina (that have open lanes to the atlantic and global trade if they wished to use it), Brazil and Paraguay will always be stuck with a good deal of Mercosur consumers.
PA countries have in common is a thin strip of coast line on the Pacific and then a lot of the Andes, but I guess eventually they will expand into the Caribbean basin and NAFTA wich is dominated for by the US trade
The map is titleted “Where do countries import the most from ?”
https://twitter.com/Amazing_Maps/status/507854122763423744/photo/1
@Amazing_Maps ( That is a cool twitter account that I like)
@13
Nov 01st, 2014 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thank you, that's much clearer now.
Interesting what you say about ideologies and geography.
It also supports my other opinion that any Mercosur/PA 'alliance' is doomed to be an interminable talking-shop going nowhere.
Great map!
Nov 01st, 2014 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina imports most from Brazil - everyone else imports from the US, and landlocked Paraguay imports from Chile.
Says a lot.
BRAZIL would like to see a prosperous ARGENTINA that can import goods.
Paraguay is probably dying to get out from under their thumb.
@13 CD2
Nov 01st, 2014 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Further to your comments; I appreciate what you are saying, but I think you confuse (political) ideology with Economic Policy, although I do know that these are delibrately mixed by some politocos in Lat Am.
Ideology knows no boundries, (ref: your beloved Muslims in Europe). Yet Trade can be impinged by physical barriers, and I do appreciate your insight on this. Your geographical lesson was not necessry for me but I am glad that you posted it for others' understanding.
I have looked for relevant figures on Venezuelan trade but whilst I can source external figures, the administration is so dodgy it would be wrong to publish their numbers in context as this could be misleading.
@4 Anglotino
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Although your research will most likely be lost on those dimwits that form the group of idiots known as “Brasileiro” , thanks for going to the trouble. The 'Brazzos” are the product of PT brainwashing, and they are not ready to be part of a civilized society, as their reaction in #6 & #8, clearly shows. It is however interesting to see the effects of brainwashing : not only are they totally uninformed about the reality in Brazil, but they have learnt to shut out anything that makes sense. Much like their spiritual leader, Lula the crook.
Their ranting, if it weren't pathetic, it would be hilarious, as is their incapacity to write even the simplest of English, correctly.
16. Thats why I said “Even if everyone agreed on tariffs and free trade you just cant undo the Andes or the Amazon rainforest and river”. That PA countries adopt a protectionist policy as a result of ideology is a possibility, but think about this why would they have pushed for this group back in 2010 (having being so many other ones already) if they ware not sure about the entire political and entrepreneurial class of the member countries didn't agree on open and free trade??
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 01:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Btw, Its not only about ideology. Both Argentina and Brazil have a business industrialist capital poor un competitive ellites that is intertwined in with the political class and that rely heavily in State intervention for their survival. They are also anti open free trade.
This is how they work in Argentina
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1476362-basta-de-populismo-industrial
Unlike in Venezuela where crony capitalism has being eaten up by the State class, this ellite still enjoys considerable power in Argentina
Have you noticed that the US economy is four times bigger than the economy of Mercosur?
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you ever noticed that the EU economy is 4.5 times larger than the Mercosur?
And why Mercosur presents such high numbers in trade with Chile, Peru and Colombia?
The correct thing is that the Mercosur X Andes trade be much smaller because the proportions, or not?
@13 You're the funniest guy I know! hahahaha
I wonder if the members of the PA are ready for a new 'dirty war'?
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Venezuelan Minister of Ecosocialism, Habitats and Homes Ricardo Molina gave a speech on October 24 in which he reiterated the government’s belief that Venezuela is the victim of an “economic war”, and urged supporters to be ready to make personal sacrifices to ensure the success of the revolution. Those sacrifices might have to include personal hygiene, as Molina explained:
“Well, if we have to stop washing our hair for the revolution, we’ll do it.”
Molina was addressing the severe shortages affecting virtually every aspect of Venezuelan industry, most notably consumer goods including basic necessities such as shampoo, toothpaste, sanitary napkins and toilet paper.
I realise my opening gambit is in rather poor taste, but I just can't see the ideologies of PA and the ALBA countries of Mercosur blending very well. Mercosur started as a trade block but has become a political talking-shop.
I believe that if the PA wants to expand/form new alliances it should do so on a country by country basis.
Why you voted in the successor of Chaves? Venezuela I say.
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 019. Brasshole
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And you are the stupidest guy I know.
Brazil will never be a power and you will always be a tied to the whims of Buenos Aires. Thats why your gov't has bent over backwards so many times to Argentina.
The fall of Brazil and the rise of Argentina.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udrDQHqnmYY
The reason ??? An Irishman called William Brown destroyed your navy in 1830s and we drew the maps and borders.
@ 22
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 04:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I love fiction films as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq8MRs0t2sQ&index=9&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
23.
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I dont have time for crap Aurelio ... We beat you when we had to at sea and expelled you from Uruguay. Now Brazil is a geographically doomed country for ever.
This is why you will NEVER EVER EVER BE A POWER
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/john-mauldin/2011/08/12/the-geopolitics-of-brazil
Their interest shows our importance!
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its the job of geopolitical analyst to do these reviews. But they make sence your wanking does not. Your view of the world is twisted, to be honest the worst enemy you have is us Argentina, not the West.
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And you are a prime Argentine, from Rio Gallegos?
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gripens or no Gripens Brazil and Argentina will never be in the Pacific Ocean (which is not the same thing as being in just a “Pacific Alliance”.)
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
27.
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Its just the way it is. Behind all this empty talk it is all about Argentina vs Brazil. But you are an idiot anyway so there is no point in explaining you how the world works.
I thought you were Argentinian. I was wrong.
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPfY_SlcFd4&index=1&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
So where I am from??
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know.
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wy7EyfF8mY&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A&index=2
hahahaha
32 Brasilero: Eu vos sos el pibe que debuto con Pelè??
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hahahaha. Tú eres más inteligente que eso.
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Este e voce....
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0ngR65I43Q
I messed up again. Are you stupid even!
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmEBeb1uPaM&index=12&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
CD2
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well done, laying it out for “The Brazzo Group” as you did.
Probably a big surprise to him that you do not agree with him blindly on a points.
You can't help the indoctrinated like him.
If you show him evidence that challenges his core beliefs and his self-image, he will reject it.
Hahahahaahahaahahaaha Aurelio Amado eu pibe que debuto con Pelè...
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0ngR65I43Q (min 1:00)
The news story below is a prime example I why I don't, why I can't, do business in Venezuela anymore.
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How will this sit with the PA and any notions of free trade?
”The Plan Feliz Navidades [Merry Christmas Plan] kicked off today with Superintendent of Fair Prices Andres Eloy Mendez ordering an 81% reduction in Barbie Doll prices at General Import stores.
The Plan is a government initiative aimed at maintaining prices of consumer goods low so that they might be purchased for the upcoming Christmas season. Starting yesterday, 27,500 government inspectors were given instructions to inspect stores throughout the country to ensure what the government calls “fair prices”.
The dramatic price reduction was announced after an investigation into the store’s prices found that, according to Mendez, the dolls were being sold at too high a price. Similar inspections took place at 331 stores throughout the country.
On the case of the Barbie dolls, Mendez said:
The Plan Feliz Navidades is bearing fruit. We will not allow store owners to speculate and play with the salaries and Christmas bonuses of the people. We have to defend those salaries.
According to Mendez, an inspection of a General Import store found that Barbie dolls were being sold for Bs. 2,999, or $476.45 at the official rate. Mendez ordered the price lowered to Bs. 553, which is approximately $85.
Measures Will Not Work, Critics Say
The president of the Caracas Chamber of Commerce, Victor Maldonado, spoke about the inspections and said that he does not believe they will work to counteract the effects of inflation and scarcity. Maldonado explained:
In Venezuela, there is a huge confidence crisis (…) [businesses] do not trust the government’s economic policies and they do not trust the government’s ability to solve these problems. Experience tells us that these types of measures [result in] empty shelves, scarcity or [complete lack of stock] and closed businesses.”
The 'dolar parallelo' is now around $1/BSF100!
37... Poor Aurelio. I had to cut it sharp on him. He doubted my nationality, I dont think he does so any longer. LOL!
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know.
Nov 02nd, 2014 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfRSe_ANfcU&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A&index=17
@39 Ilsen,
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0tks for the insight.....just wonder what the starving people are going to do AFTER the Feliz Navidades....eat their Barbie dolls ?
@40 CD2
You have no doubt realized by now that it's useless trying to dialogue with the Brazzo group.....they only know one truth, the one that the PT feeds them, in the form of a 'bolsa família' every month....
42. Yep he is a very limited chap, I have nothing against Brazilians but I had to destroy his wet dreams and his permanent senseless propaganda.
Nov 04th, 2014 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 040 CD2
Nov 04th, 2014 - 03:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good job!!
LOL
@28 Philippe
Nov 04th, 2014 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very true.
...
The Pacific has become more important than the Atlantic. In the past Brasil and Argentina benefited from the Atlantic. Now the Pacific nations are benefiting from access to Asia.
The model pioneered by Chile of achieving dozens of bilateral FTAs with important economies has been adopted by Peru and Colombia. And they are not going to turn back on that.
MS has uncompetitive industries that would suffer if they opened up to Mexico. That would be one of the major obstacles to any future trade integration.
...
@CD
Great map.
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