MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
In the aftermath of Scotland's referendum, worst possible news for Labor
A majority of Scots would back independence if another referendum were held this Sunday, according to a public opinion poll, just six weeks after Scotland voted against leaving the United Kingdom. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesIt's easy to be brave and vocal after the fact knowing full well it makes no difference whatsoever. They are getting their devolved powers and every single thing they have asked for and the miserable sods are still complaining!! They have free prescriptions, tuition fees and more per capita spent on them than any other part of the UK.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't hear the matter of what currency they would be spending being mentioned or the fact that oil prices are at rock bottom ( the independence manifesto always calculated them as high to achieve their mythical spending ).
They are the baby that never stops crying for its bottle.
Scots should be made to vote again until they get it right.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0The important thing is that they aren't getting another referendum. I always wonder who YouGov asks in order to get these results. Anyway part of the agreement that allowed the first referendum was that there would be no more votes on independence for 50 years.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 09:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0But why the switch? Well, Salmond's gone for a start. So they have to keep the pot boiling. After all, They're starting to hear about things they won't be getting. With all their new tax-raising powers, it makes no sense for England to keep giving them £8,623 per person per year. They can raise it themselves. Who knows what they won't be able to afford? And they've just learned that Japanese whisky is better than the scottish stuff.
#1
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0You should be delighted. With Labour bombed out you can have a Conservative government in perpetuity. Back to the good old days, workhouses, death penalty for stealing a loaf, no secondary education for children, take back the sweat shops from Bangladesh, Health treatment only for the wealthy...you must be salivating at the thought !
@4
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0You don't honestly believe what you are saying, do you? You have to be a Scot, incidently I am British.
At best the headlines are misleading and at worst, disingenuous.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pollsters like to put these percentages out but very rarely state the accuracy of determination which is usually + / - 2%. AND, that’s without those polled ‘misleading’ [or lying to] the pollster.
All the stated numbers fall within the 4% margin, so AT BEST it’s a draw.
Does anyone really care anyway other than the Labour idiots? The Conservatives for reasons best known to themselves have always ignored the Scots. Why will that change if the SNP take over from Labour, it’s just one bunch of deadheads taking over from another bunch of deadheads?
An independent Scotland is inevitable. South East greed and Westminster arrogance is the cause.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0#5
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes. I have used a large dose of hyperbole, but the history of the Conservative party shows that any improvements in the standard of living of the average “Joe” had to be prised out of them with a crowbar.
Of course the supporters of independence are not going to go away. They will still beaver away with their hopes.
Likewise UKIP will push their agenda to remove the UK from the EU.
The Greens will push for an economy based on respect for the environment and sustainability.
Sinn Fein will push their agenda for an united Ireland.
It's what is called a democracy. Each of these parties will have to convince the voting population to back them. Until then, it is just talk.
#6
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the Labour idiots?”
You mean those of us who actually give a fuck about other human beings and are not just in it for themselves?
The Conservatives and likely UKIP (though its pretty obvious Dave is working hard to erode their support by “standing up” to the EU) will rip this country apart, not just literally but morally.
@ 8
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ but the history of the Conservative party shows that any improvements in the standard of living of the average “Joe” had to be prised out of them with a crowbar.”
And the history of the Labour party left this..
http://www.debt-clock.org
@8
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with everything you say, but there is no democracy in a one party dominated state. If Scotland has rejected the labour party, does this mean they have rejected the Union. I'm not sure these two things are the same thing.
The truth is that David Milliband does not inspire confidence in anyone, not just Scots. My guess is that once you have a credible leader of the Labour Party up there then things will change, I mean, my god there are so many holes in the SNP utopia policies, a trained chimp should be able to provide a credible opposition to them.
I actually think that UKIP will do well in Scotland next year, I'm not sure the scots are as Europhile as Sturgean would have people believe.
@7.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe that will come to pass, and sooner than some would think.
@12
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How? How would they orchestrate another referendum “sooner than you think” and what fundamental policy issue have changed, the big ones like having no reserve currency and low oil prices and their pension not being paid ?
What has changed other than some very brave voices mouthing off now it's all over and done?????
it is just a matter of time.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0i predict an independent scotland for 2016.
“SNP sets the day for Scottish independence: 24 March 2016
If the voters say yes, then Independence day will be 24 March 2016 – a date that resonates in Scotland's history”
@13
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I said sooner that some would think. (somebody posted 50 years above)
A referendum is not the only way Scotland will become independent.
The SNP will be pushing for the next IndyRef for less than ten years from now.
Pension not being paid? That was the mail lie being used on the older generation by the BT squad, - Its not true.
Low oil prices? - That much revenue going to 8% of the UK's population?
Could be way lower that that, and still be more money that we could handle.....
8% of the UK's population.
Time will tell.
@15
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Keep dreaming.
@16
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0;-)
@ 9 inthegutter
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are not old enough to remember, or live through, the chaos that accompanied Labour with the likes of Wilson and Big (stupid) Jim Callaghan, I am.
If you really believe that Labour gives a fuck about anybody other than Labour than you are even more deluded than ever: go to Cuba and see how you like it there.
All it is, North of the Border, is a couple of leadership changes.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Labour won't disappear just because we would like it to happen.
However, the vision of a swivel-eyed Miliband assuming the position of Prime Minister of the United Kingdom is a Halloween horror image of mighty ineptitude (see pic. for Miliband 'thinking'). Even worse, imagine Miliband 'assuming the position'!
The Tory election strap-line should be “Vote Labour and be ruled by Miliband - think about it!”
Yes, red eyes on the poster image is at last appropriate.
#10
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would have thought that the bankers were applying Tory principles. Grab as much as you can for yourself and sod anyone else. Thatcher's principles.
Private enterprise good the rest are a burden
#14
You and Hepatia read from the same hymn book although you only give it 18 months. I presume you will retract this ridiculous statement on the due date.
Pandora's box has been opened in the UK now. We are all 'everyone' going to have get used to a very different country in the coming years. Scotland's has had its time in the spotlight as regards devolved power, make way for Greater Manchester. A larger economy than Wales or Northern Ireland and it will very soon have its own elected major. The city contributed 51 billion to the UK economy in 2012, more than any other English region outside London. The city has the most modern transport system in the UK and a massive international airport, the biggest outside London and soon to be second in size only to Heathrow.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29876939
@ 20
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I would have thought that the bankers were applying Tory principles. Grab as much as you can for yourself and sod anyone else.“
You mean the Scots Banks that the rest of UK had to bail out.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9789697/English-taxpayers
-forced-to-bail-out-independent-Scotlands-banks.html
”Thatcher's principles. Private enterprise good the rest are a burden.”
Take the Western Isles - a negative economy, where most employment is found in Local Gov't Administration, Health Services, and Education - all supporting a population existing on subsidies - whether it be Crofting, Fuel, Air Travel or Ferry Travel.
A sensible move would be the St Kilda solution.
Labour borrowed money and destroyed the economy taking us into a deeper and more painful recession than all our Western economic counterparts....George Osborne and the Tories have gone some way to repairing the economy so that we've exited the recession faster and stronger than our counterparts.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sorry if this doesn't support the “average Joe” mentality, I am sorry if the “Socialist” dream has been proven time and time to fail.
look at the spend on welfare in the UK...under a Tory Government...it dwarves every other department by a country mile....second biggest spend...the NHS.
Billion and Billions of tax payers money doing exactly the opposite of “sod everyone else”....every single year.....
We are fortunate to live in a society where not only those who “can't” are supported by those who can....but also those who won't....
I am a great supporter of Independence....London and the English Shire Counties should be Independent from the Socialist North and Scotland/Wales.
Nearly all the money, nearly all the enterprise, nearly all the tax revenue...and almost no Socialists...(is it prosperous because there are no Socialists?)
@7. There is a case for dumpimg scotchland. It takes up far too much in resources etc in comparison to its size and population.
Nov 03rd, 2014 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9. Do explain the Labour Party and the Welsh NHS!
@11. Don't you mean Ed Milliband?
@15. Why do you want a repeat? Are you going to make the same threats? You know about the threats Salmond issued to businesses. Who will take Sillars' role? How nazi-like will you want it?
@23. How easy it is to forget what we have, and are losing. There used to be an unwritten 'contract'. You paid in when you were working and were helped if sick or unemployed. There were few 'bleeding hearts'. Then came the sense of 'entitlement'. Being 'on the dole' or the 'National Assistance' was nothing to be proud of. But if you were 'entitled'? And then came the migrants. The solutions are fairly obvious.
23
Nov 04th, 2014 - 01:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0...“I am a great supporter of Independence....London and the English Shire Counties should be Independent from the Socialist North and Scotland/Wales.”
...you stupid foreigner...WTF are the English Shire Counties....?
...do you mean these....
Bedfordshire, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Cambridgeshire, Cheshire, Cornwall, Cumbria, Derbyshire, Devon, Dorset, Durham, East Sussex, Essex, Gloucestershire, Hampshire, Hertfordshire, Kent, Lancashire, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Norfolk, Northamptonshire, Northumberland, North Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Shropshire, Somerset, Staffordshire, Suffolk, Surrey, Warwickshire, West Sussex, Wiltshire, Worcestershire
Everything that is not a metropolitan county is a Shire County...
What is the Socialist North..??? North Yorkshire..? Lancashire..?
hahahaha...you know feck all about England ....you puppet......Troy....
So then Troy isn't English?
Nov 04th, 2014 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0He must be Canadian... like he has claimed.... so hard to keep up with some people's paranoia.
“Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete a..holes”
Nov 04th, 2014 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqgkZDbe4Xk
Oh dear Voicey...
Nov 04th, 2014 - 06:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Everything that isn't a metropolitan county is a shire county”...then you answered your own question fuckwit.
Take London and “everything that isn't a metropolitan county in England ” and what map are you left with.
Almost entirely Blue....all the Tory seats...which was exactly my point..
How stupid are you exactly?
Prove it again....prove it again.
P.s.
I love this article....all those brave(heart) Scots claiming if there were a referendum tomorrow, they vote Independence. But you know the truth eh Voicey...they talk big, brag about “lest we forget”....then shit their pants with terror just before the vote.
A bunch of gobshittes....just like you!
Hi Clyde.
Nov 04th, 2014 - 10:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I sort of knew you were likely to be Scottish Labour.
But quite frankly, the thought of the UK - and Scotland - being ruled by Miliband should fill both of us with the horrors.
#29
Nov 04th, 2014 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I WAS Labour until Blair and his cronies took the party farther to the right than the Tories. My Grandfather was one of the first Union organisers in the Clyde and Jarrow shipyards at the turn of the 19th century. He got blacklisted for his Union activities and could not get a job as a boilermaker at any shipyard in the UK. He was one of the Red Clydesiders later on.
I suppose that I have socialism in my genetic make up, now however, I would be more likely to vote for the Green party.
30. Companies were right not to hire you grandfather again. He was obviously a troublemaker and who wants one of those working for them.
Nov 04th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You must be very weak minded to be a Socialist. Only really dumb people could think that it could ever work long term.
The problem with the Scottish nationalists is that they have never been fiscally responsible for running the country. Even with the oil and tax revenues there would be an annual 7 billion pound shortfall. If Scotland had have been independent in 2010 they would have found themselves in deep sh@t bailing out the Scottish banks, particularly RBS and would have still been suffering the consequences had it not have been for the rest of the UK.
Nov 04th, 2014 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice, Clyde @ #30.
Nov 04th, 2014 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There was a certain historical inevitability and our ancestors were people of their time. (A bit like those in the International Brigade that fought Franco - today's I.B. fighting Assad will be tomorrow's 'Terrorists'.)
Yankee @ #31, sorry old mate, but this 'Socialism' was a European phenomenon over the last century - rooted in the theories of Marx and Engels. In the UK it took on a weird track of its own and largely destroyed Britain.
I have not met anybody from the USA that comprehends the differences between American 'socialism' and the genuine article.
And, Brit Bob @ #32, there's a real wry paradox here.
England formed the Union when Scotland came starving and bankrupt (1706) for the first bail-out. Contemporary Britain handed over much of its high-level governance to Scots, and the UK was brought low under their rule. (It's possible that it might have been even worse without the Scottish Prime Ministers and ministers of state but I strongly doubt it).
#31
Nov 04th, 2014 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And you are an example of the intelligentsia ? God help us. !!
Without “socialism” in the UK, there would have been no workers rights, starvation wages, no health and safety, no health service in fact, we would have ended up like the USA. A wealthy class and underdogs relying on food stamps.
Socialism was good at it's time but degenerated into a series of ”rights but no responsibilities.
The best form of government is a benign dictator.
Never said I was part of the intelligentsia and I wouldn't want to be. They mostly produce weak marxists like Obama.
Nov 04th, 2014 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do liberals always think without the gov't forcing companies to bestow unearned benefits on workers that we'll all be wage slaves. You sound like that idiot magnus that thinks Gov't can innovate and force people to manufacture.
You should take a little trip to the USA. I've never seen a wage slave and I've been here most of my whole life.
retard.
#35
Nov 04th, 2014 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No thank you, I have spent 2 hours there and that was enough. I would probably meet someone like you or get shot by some gun toting lunatic.
Do wish to continue in a vituperative slanging match worthy of a Troll ?
You seem to revel in that form of “discussion”.
Basically, anyone who disagrees with you is dumb,mentally retarded or defined by some other equally choice expressions.
You certainly have a great opinion of yourself...pity I don't share it.
Yankee,
Nov 04th, 2014 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How do you remotely equate your President with him being a Marxist - let alone a socialist. He is a million miles separated from these philosophies.
I fear you are blinkered into a peculiarly 'American' way of thinking, and your paradigm is ridiculously narrow.
Health care for poorer people? Does this make a person a Marxist??
Slave wages for wage slaves?
Look at the wage distribution across the total US population in employment - the degree of skewing is 'evil'.
Wage slaves are on every street; YOU just don't SEE them. Mostly they come as black, Mexican, other Latino, and people employed in other parts of the world to manufacture American products. They are EVERYWHERE!
36. Pretty much if you don't' agree with me you have to be dumb. Yes that's my point most everything I say is common sense.
Nov 04th, 2014 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's no such thing as wage slaves, if they don't like the pay they don't have to work for it. Plus they are paid what they are worth.
There's no such thing as Free anything. Why should I pay for something so someone else doesn't have to? No thanks. I work and buy what I want. Too bad for them if they can't.
@25 Voise Nowhere Man
Nov 04th, 2014 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0wait wait wait... wtf, just hang on... am I “Monkey Magic” or “Anglotino” ????
... I can't keep up with you.
Is that right, NOW... I'm not British, AND... not Canadian???
But you said wasn't a Canadian, the last time you addressed me!!
Apparently ma spellin' wuz all rong !!
If I'm “Anglotino”, like you said I was, that would make me an Aussie, eh? ...er I mean 'right'.
Don't know how I can be an Austrslian, when I was born in Sussex, according to “Voise's Rules of Being English ”???
“Everything that is not a metropolitan county is a Shire County...
What is the Socialist North..??? North Yorkshire..? Lancashire..?
hahahaha...you know feck all about England ....you puppet......Troy....
Don't get all apoplectic on us now...
I know what it is, however I did leave ”The Shire”, eh.
Voise, you're flailing in the dark... LOL !!!
37.
Nov 04th, 2014 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I for myself dont have a problem with un even distribution of wealth when it is result of the free market and free choice. As long as I have a fair shot and opportunities Im OK, I would rather be a poor guy in Chile than a poor guy in Argentina. Because I can make myself worth in a free market.
What where all those Tiger economies of East Asia back in the 1950s like South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore?? Pretty much what you call “wage slave” economies. Look where they are now. How come black and hispanics households remain poor in the US but now Asian households are now richer than white ones in the US ?? Yet blacks in the US seem to be bitching still and claiming that the system is evil and against them when there own president is black. Its this entitlement and patronizing culture that even the US has fallen too.
And let me tell you I come from Argentina, I can talk to you long and extensively how Peronism intervened the free market and distributed wealth and benefits that had been accumulated from the richest periods of Argentina and kept on distributing and distributing until everyone was poor.
There are plenty of examples of where socialists/collectivists/Marxists “wealth distribution” failed. Not just a little failure but a spectacular failure that brought down empires.
Nov 05th, 2014 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0These idiots will never learn.
They need to be vigorously reeducated or tossed out a plane.
The second is the better option.
@37 Geoff
Nov 05th, 2014 - 02:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have to laugh when people - mostly Americans - call Obama a Marxist. I can't decide whether it's just intellectual laziness or simply ignorance. My own, conservative, govt. is presided over by a deeply conservative Catholic and yet provides a 'safety net' of benefits it would be impossible to sell to the American public. And no-one would dare call him a Marxist.
@38 Yankeeboy
”Pretty much if you don't' ( sic ) with me you have to be dumb.” Breathtaking arrogance.
@40 CD2
I don't have a problem with uneven distribution of wealth either, so long as peoples basic needs are taken care of. Which is why, in my country, we don't have hordes of homeless and mentally ill people inhabiting the streets and parks of our cities.
42. Yeah so? I never claimed otherwise. What's your point?
Nov 05th, 2014 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@43
Nov 06th, 2014 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do I even have to point out that arrogance is not actually a virtue? And you're actually proud of it? I would find such attitudes in a six year old disappointing.
44
Nov 06th, 2014 - 04:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Do you think that YB's purpose is perhaps to offend and outrage the Troll hostiles as much as possible.
They do their best to wind us up by insults, de-humanising the Fslkland inhabitants and arrogantly claiming they are squatting on 'Argentine' land.
The Peronist Propaganda Trolls and the rabid Nationalists provocateurs like Pablo Cabana and Nostrils are not entitled to any respect.
@45
Nov 06th, 2014 - 05:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0You think Clyde15 is a troll?
“Do you think that YB's purpose is perhaps to offend and outrage the Troll hostiles as much as possible.” No, I think he's an equal opportunity offender. Of course, if you want a definitive answer, I suggest you ask him.
46 Heisen
Nov 06th, 2014 - 06:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why would I think Clyde15 is a Troll?
I do not.
@47
Nov 06th, 2014 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Good for you. So far, off the top of my head I can think of at least five people Yankeeboy has called a 'retard', a term most people erase from their vocabulary by the time they reach adulthood. None of those people fit my definition of the word troll, including Clyde15 ( see @35 ).
In the context of your first sentence @45 my question to you is perfectly legitimate.
42. Heisenbergcontext
Nov 06th, 2014 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0We pay AUH per kid in Argentina. The idea was that any mother gets paid a minimum sum to pay up for her kids education and food. There is any amount of subsidies in Argentina, both provincial and national ones. The safety net really is a bribing net.
How come since AUH have being implemented in Argentina there is still kids begging on the streets??
We are basically subsidising young poor and uneducated women to get themselves pregnant. In 15 years time the kids that they irresponsably produce and come out of broken families basically single mums and tens of dads who are bad examples, the schooling system cant cope with educating them, my guess that they are going to be a massive burden for society in 15 years from now as they end up being drug abusers and criminals.
49. That's how every Socialist evils begins, the Dems do it in the USA too. They want to keep the blacks in a subsistence life dependant solely on the Gov't for their existence.
Nov 06th, 2014 - 12:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hopefully that will change now that we have the Senate back.
48. Your arrogance makes my stomach turn. You think you are right and have some moral high ground but you don't. I hate Socialists they are evil and want to destroy people's very being/hope.
If you can't see what has been done throughout history to millions of people I stand by my description of you being a retard. Call me all you want in flowery insults but I don't care. I've heard it all before from Think, Voice, Marcos etc. I'll just add you to the list of the un-teachable, ignorant trolls on this board.
@49 CD
Nov 06th, 2014 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, we have had similar problems going back to the early eighties with the single woman's pension. The rules have been tightened by successive governments but that particular benefit, along with with the Disability Support Pension and Carer's Allowance have always been open to exploitation. In the course of my work I met many people who scammed their way onto the Social Security payroll.
My earlier comment was simply making the point that as a society we are willing to make the neccesary sacrifices to keep people off the streets. Sometimes you can't people because they don't want to be helped. C'est la vie...
@50
You just don't get it do you? I don't care about your bloody political beliefs - it's neither my business nor my problem. And for the record I don't trust political rhetoric of any kind or description. My philosophy can be distilled down to two words - 'whatever works'.
My problem with you is your MANNERS. You don't even have enough self-awareness to be aware of the irony of, on the one hand decrying the lack of civilisation in South America, whilst on the other not even having enough discipline to keep a civil tongue in your head. And you have the nerve to think you can you can teach me? Honestly, I'm laughing myself right now silly at the very notion. You can't even come up with an original insult!
You have trouble with my manners? Puhleez.
Nov 06th, 2014 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Get a life loser
Yawn...
Nov 06th, 2014 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CD and YB
Nov 06th, 2014 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand your frustration with subsidising the poor to stay poor, BUT spending for Social programs and education programs instead of handouts would have more positive results than abandoning that portion of the population.
They do have to take responsibility for themselves, but there has to be something we have learned since 19th Century Industrialisation and explosion of the new Urban Poor.
I think there should be a brief Social net but only if you've worked and paid into it, like unemployment insurance. I also believe in Education but only paid through HIgh School. Make work programs don't work in the long run and neither does “retraining” people into new careers.
Nov 06th, 2014 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We had a program where I live that “trained” welfare receipients for new Hotel jobs, what were they teaching them you may ask, How to get to work on time, how to add, how to keep yourself clean and presentable.
Those people are doomed. The gov't ruined them and there's no hope for them. Get them off the dole and let them starve. Work or Die. Either way the Society as a whole will be better off.
54.
Nov 06th, 2014 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think we take for granted many things. Countries which grew massively at the turn of the century had very little government spending as % of GDP. Britain at the hight of its power when the sun never set only spent about 10% according to Milton Friedman. US had already replaced Britain as the biggest economy by the 1870s. They also had a very small government and enjoyed spectacular growth and absorbed millions of immigrants from Europe.
Argentina at the best of its time was in average less than 7% and most of its expenditure was on defence.
It comes out that many miths that the peronists and statist claim about the “agroexporting” period where not true. Wages in real terms grew significantly higher than any other period of Argentina, real industrialization (when they peronists usually claim agro oligarchs prevented the country from industrializing) was also higher than any other period of Argentina growth.
http://www.libertadyprogresonline.org/2014/09/25/la-era-relativamente-liberal-argentina/
You can choose which area you want to subsidise if you wish, education, health or defence. But the numbers dont lie. there is a certain point when you cant spend more than you should and leave the free market to work for itself. And that is less than 10% of GDP.
The problem is also family in the western world. They have all gone by a process of cultural marxism since the 1960s. Traditionally society- church and family had a very significant part to play. Now the welfare state and failure of it is left to cope with the role of all 3 of these parties. Womens role has evolved and the new responsability that they have in society is not being adressed nor it has even been updated as well as bad and irresponsable parenting.
YB
Nov 06th, 2014 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Point taken, I was suggesting a real education, not just “re-training” or grooming for McJobs.
Some real technical skills and trades, as we are living in a Service Economy.
However, with the anti-China backlash and a return to Made in the USA, and supporting very local economies, I think there may be greater demand for skilled labour.
I wasn't clear about Education, there needs to be a social component - teach our kids about the economy and jobs, good parenting, and how poor personal decisions can adversely affect their lives.
One can't create redundant or meaningless “jobs” for the masses, but a “leg up” would be helpful - they need to have the means to work their way out of poverty and hopelessness, otherwise it is too easy to say, “WTF, I can work, but I'll never get anywhere!”
It's not easy, any system can be abused, and someone is needed who knows what they are doing, to implement some plan.
57.
Nov 06th, 2014 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How to keep yourself clean and presentable, that you dont learn at school or at a training course, you learn that the day your mother teaches you how to wipe your arse or take a shower and brush your teeth. How to respect authority must be tought at family level i.e parents that earn the kids respect in a healthy way is a kid that will in future be able to not answer back to the boss or behave unreasonalby in the work place.
Again the State cant replace the role of good parenting and the father bound families.
I believe if you have a will you will find a way. There's lots of opportunity in the USA. There are already 100s of thousands of unfilled jobs yet we also have a permanent class of unemployed because they are unemployable.
Nov 06th, 2014 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think some has to do with the delta between welfare and minimum wage and the permanent underclass the Progressive/Socialists have created.
Lots need to change we've had almost a generation of failed policy. It won't change overnight but I think we'll be on the road back to sanity shortly.
There will always be the “unemployable” that simply don't want to work ( as opposed to those who cannot work), and those who will abuse or despise being given opportunity.
Nov 06th, 2014 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If some of the remainder legitimately succeed and benefit, then it's better for the society as a whole.
“Doing nothing” is not a solution.
I don't know about the “Paul's” of the world think of that.
I expect he would be ungrateful though.
Yeah unless you are medically incapable of working even welfare should require some work/school for the pay.
Nov 06th, 2014 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's always streets that need to be swept and graffiti cleaned.
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