To date (Monday) the Falkland Islands government has received no formal request for the exhumation and identification of the Argentine combatants buried at the Darwin Cemetery, was the reply from Gilbert House in Stanley to reports to that effect in The Independent, and in the Argentine media. Read full article
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Number #1 in the USA at 1:30 in the morning tonight :)Nov 25th, 2014 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Will this too, become a contrived political 'incident'?Nov 25th, 2014 - 05:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Let the dead test in peace, and leave the islanders in peace.
If they insist on digging them up as a government backed initiative - take them all with you - no reason to visit the islands again, and no more political stunts.
Yet another despicable attempt by the Argentine authorities to use their war dead for political gain.Nov 25th, 2014 - 06:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
If they were truly serious about this then they would've contacted the Falkland Islands Government to get permission to exhume the bodies right from the start. The fact that these 'people' (and I use the word advisedly) are continuing with these so called 'preparations' as if they could just walk in and dig up these bodies is truly arrogant, disrespectful and as I said before, despicable.
So as Troy says, leave these poor boys in peace, and leave the Islanders in peace.
In other words...get lost Argentina.
Oh, and Argentina if you ever do get permission to exhume the bodies, you'd better be ready to take them back to Argentina, because once out of sacred Falklands soil, they won't be going back in.
Next thing you'll hear from the RG Gov, is a complaint the the United Kingdom (not the FIG) is not allowing the repatriation.Nov 25th, 2014 - 06:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
I agree with the above posts in that this is a truly despicable motive/agenda from the RG Gov.
127 of 237. Perhaps it is time to send them home.Nov 25th, 2014 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
They will have done half the job just digging them up.
Probably it's the early stages of another plan to wind up the gullible. The Argentine government will ask the UK for permission to dig, the UK government will reply don't ask us, ask the FIG, Argentina will refuse to speak to the FIG and claim that the UK is playing politics with the grief of the loved ones. Pass the sick bag, Alice.Nov 25th, 2014 - 08:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Correct me if I am wrong but would it not have been better to ask permission first and get a positive reply and then carry out DNA testing because it would save one years abortive work if a negative responce. A bit like the chicken and egg conundrum.Nov 25th, 2014 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
It is never difficult to distinguish between an Argentine with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.Nov 25th, 2014 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
J M Barrie
Sadly this will run and run as the pathetic Argentine Govt will never have the guts nor gumption to realise that it has to accept world reality that we existNov 25th, 2014 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
and are the people and Govt they have to communicate with and talk to.
Argentina should acknowledge you exist as people, but not as a sovereign government, because you AREN'T. Should you become independent, then certainly they should address you directly, but as long as that is not the case, you do not have the right to talk directly to the government of Buenos Aires anymore that Bavaria, Catalonia, Lombardy, California, or Caterlandia have the right to talk to Buenos Aires.Nov 25th, 2014 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Well while you refuse to ask the Falklands elected government then as usual all this will come to nothing. And yet again will probably become some sick political weapon for Argentina to try to use.Nov 25th, 2014 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
10# Troll in The Dark !!! :>Nov 25th, 2014 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
you do not have the right to talk directly to the government of Buenos Aires anymore that Bavaria, Catalonia, Lombardy, California, or Caterlandia have the right to talk to Buenos Aires
Yes and Bavaria, Catalonia etc are very very happy about that!
Troll 10. Guess you went to the same Fantasy School as Kristina and Timmerman. Think you will find that any Govt in the world that needs any form of info or contact with the Islands actually has to contact direct the Falkland Islands Govt - and the respective Dept of.Nov 25th, 2014 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
European Union does.
So if the Argentine Govt wants to find out about the possibilities of anything like this topic then that is what they need to do.
UK Govt Foreign Office has told them that plenty of times! UK Govt has no direct control over internal affairs of the Islands - get it?
If - for example - AA ever want to fly here they need to start contacts for example with the Dept of Civil Aviation,Falkland Islands Govt.
Simple fact of life.
@13 Islander1Nov 25th, 2014 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
We all know how simple facts and truths confuse Argentina and the trolls.
Best option is for RAF Flight 1435 to missile and bomb the invader burial ground until it no longer exists. No-one needs anything argie on the Falkland Islands.Nov 25th, 2014 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Shame on you (again), Arg gov. ...Nov 25th, 2014 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Let our servicemen rest in peace, stop using them to divert attention, start acting like grown ups.
They didn´t deserve to die in such pointless conflict, while most of the current gov officials were watching tv at home, far from the war zone.
@ 15 So glad to see that you are NOT British.
@10 Well unless they ask FIG then nothing will happen. Also, they must be planning to bring a fair amount of equipment, like machinery to assist in excavation, and where do they plan to store the remains during testing, surely they would need assistance from us (Falklands Islanders) to achieve this.Nov 25th, 2014 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
@15 Yes lets destroy a war grave, that makes sense. What a stupid comment.
@ 17Nov 25th, 2014 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Do you think so, Brian? I guess the will perform a more precise, archeological task, so I think they may exclude the use of machinery.
@18 The graves will at least be 6ft under, a lot of archeological gigs use small excavators to remove at least the top soil, if not more, i just assumed it would make it easier, but I'm no expert. But I doubt this will go ahead anyway, they can't just turn up without permission and start digging. I think it would be better to leave them bodies alone and leave them in peace.Nov 25th, 2014 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
@ 19Nov 25th, 2014 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
@20Nov 25th, 2014 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Do you think it would be appropriate for Argentine relatives to visit the graves only if they reach them by navigating themselves through an area of unmarked Argentine land mines first. I think that would be a highly appropriate suggestion.
@ 21Nov 25th, 2014 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
That would be highly ... dumb, even at joke-level.
Fortunately, folks from the FI have being extremely kind with all the relatives, and I bet they will continue to act in such a civil way no matter how much BS may be issued from the Argentinian gov.
What we are talking here is about grieving mothers and sons who want to pay their respects to the fallen.
On the other hand, If you want to toss CFK to a minefield, be my guest.
@22Nov 25th, 2014 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
I'm not sure what part of the world you are from, but where I come from goodwill, cooperation, kindness and consideration have to be earnt and are not the default response to years of naked aggression and abuse at every forum and oppurtunity.
@ 23Nov 25th, 2014 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Don´t make the relatives pay the price. They already gave the lives of their beloved ones. And your suggestion was dumb indeed.
I´ll second any attempt of you to send the Arg gov to hell, as well as its absurd claim of sovereign over those islands. On the other hand, giving a hard time to the relatives would be completely silly, and unfair.
23- don't worry, as far as the majority of us Islanders are concerned the Arg relatives and families have just as much need to visit the graves and get their closure as do the British families - all we ask is that they do it in a dignified and respectfull way and don't go waving flags about the place. The families resect that mostly - sadly the majority of visiting Arg veterans do not, and thus spoil it for all.Nov 25th, 2014 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Unfortunately all we tend to hear from the Malvinas Veterans is anti Falkland’s propaganda.Nov 25th, 2014 - 05:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Welcome them with open arms, be as helpful as you can, arrange for full press coverage of the event. Any body that is id'd ask the relatives if they would like it returned to Argentina (Again do so in the full glare of the media) arrange for the remains to be returned to BA on a ship flying the Islands flag with full military honours along with any family members a guard of honour made up of the Islands defence force and of course the media. And as I say go directly to BA :-)Nov 25th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
With a team of a least 20 people staying for 8 weeks, they could the first guests at one of the new hotels.Nov 25th, 2014 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
All I have to say is ... Burn baby burn...Nov 25th, 2014 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
This from Clarin:Nov 25th, 2014 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
“At the same time, Fondebrider said he would have already informed the national government that once they reach Darwin, can in up to eight weeks to deploy a team of about 20 people, open the tomb, taking the remains, graves and close back to Argentina for analysis. Fondebrider clarified taking samples are small and that among them would require teeth. He said that none of this will mean moving bodies Malvinas to Argentina as many believe. ****We used that excuse to scare the family****. From the technical point of view, Argentina did homework. It met all protocols. This is a forensic humanitarian operation. It is a right of the family to know where your loved one. It is urgent because relatives are aging as in the case of Argentine disappeared, he told this newspaper in a telephone conversation from Lebanon, where the EAAF also works.”
“The identification of the bodies of Darwin, a demand made in 2012 veterans and Solidarity Network to the Ministry of Justice and then was moved to Cristina Kirchner by the English rocker Roger Waters, is delayed by the long tension between the governments of Nestor and Cristina Kirchner and the UK for the Falklands conflict. The Government asked the International Red Cross collaboration with this identification was done because that oversaw the burials in Darwin after getting the remains on the battlefield. The agency said it would act when there was consent of relatives. Its members travel here often.”
The comments from the argie scum are, as you can imagine, full of references to “pirates”, “kelpers” and Argentine land” meaning the Falkland Islands.
Just another scam with a bit of flim-flam by the argies in using their own investigative team as if they were recognised world-wide for technical excellence and thoroughness in technique in this area.
Pathetic people just causing their own citizens further heartbreak.
In other words, we care a half cent about the UK. As relevant to Argentina as 10 zeroes to the left of 1.Nov 25th, 2014 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
@31Nov 25th, 2014 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Oh we know you care about us lots, in fact your government will be talking all about us again when HMS Dragon arrives, lots and lots of caring.
30Nov 25th, 2014 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Pathetic people just causing their own citizens further heartbreak
Really quite callous - the exact opposite to the image of patriotism and compassion they are trying to sell, for the sake of political opportunity.
The Veterans are just used as pawns!
Perhaps the FALKLAND Government should write to the Argentine Government and say You are cordially invited to come to the FALKLANDS and repatriate your fallen soldiers so that the families of the fallen can get closure I think that would be a good solution for all concerned. The Argentine families do not have to travel to the FALKLANDS and the FALKLANDERS do not have to put up with the whining of the Argies.Nov 25th, 2014 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
and they are now fully ready to exhume the bodies, take the samples back to Argentina for examination ,Nov 25th, 2014 - 08:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
its just my opinion , but all these lies and contempt that the argentine government seems to have for the dead,
and this may well drag on and on and on,
perhaps it would be better for the Falkland's government to either have the bodies removed and buried at sea, or sent home to Argentina,
or just ignore them..
The family of each identified body should be given the option of having the body repatriated.Nov 25th, 2014 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
The cemetary was a cynical attempt by the Argentine government of the day to creating a continuing symbol of sovereignty on the Islands. And it has been shamelessly exploited by CFK.
The more bodies sent home (the Islands not being Argentine can never be home) the less of an impact this blight on the landscape creates.
With all the oil money about to be made by FIG, they should set up a fund so that any relative can apply for exhumation and shipment of then pay to a neutral third country like Chile where a final cash payment will be given for them to organise the final leg onto Argentine territory.
Comsidering how poor most Argentineans are becoming, a lump sum 'grieving allowance' could be paid as a bribe to kickstart the programme.
It would be a human rights issue of the Argentine government attempted to block the process. Though I imagine La Campora would employ some not so subtle fascist pressure on the families.
I wonder how long before Crass-tina attempts to politicise this humanitarian work?Nov 25th, 2014 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
@37Nov 25th, 2014 - 08:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
She has already said that the fallen were on Argentinian soil so they didn't need repatriating.
If the government of the island do not want the EAAF Argentine scientists, working in Darwin, enable the international Red Cross or any British university experts to take samples to be studied in Buenos Aires or in some neutral place.Nov 26th, 2014 - 02:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
The Argentine Forensic Anthropology Team (EAAF) http://www.eaaf.org/eaaf/, is a Non-governmental, not-for-profit, scientific organization That Applies forensic sciences - mainly forensic anthropology and archeology - to the investigation of human rights violations in Argentina and worldwide. Was established in 1984 during the administration of Dr. Ricardo Alfonsin to Investigate the cases of at Least 9,000 people Disappeared in Argentina under the military government from 1976 to 1983 That ruled. Today, the team works in Latin America, Africa, Asia and Europe on five integrated programs:
EAAF currently working on mejico, brought by the Mexican government itself to study the disappearance of the 43 Mexican students missing.
A paradigmatic case in this matter is the united states and vietnam. Where united states army in the Vietnamese territory itself has recovered and identified many remains of soldiers.
Argentines believe in the good will of cooperation with the Islanders, eg july 2012 the glass casing Protecting a figure of Argentina's patron saint, the Virgin of Luján, at the head of the cemetery was smashed With what Appeared to be an axe . Argentina presented this issue to the British government and Informed the United Nations and the International Red Cross. Sebastian Socodo, responsible for the cemetery's upkeep, Said Were Notified families and That it was not clear When It Occurred or Who the perpetrators were. Police in the Falklands held an investigation and the case was repaired.
@39Nov 26th, 2014 - 02:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
They still need permission from the Falkland Islands to carry out their work.
@41Nov 26th, 2014 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Ok... so conversely, why can't the government of Tierra del Fuego have the same rights as the FALKLAND ISLANDS? Apparently you Brits are insinuating they don't, because you all got so up in arms about them kicking out the Top Gear Tv show from the province.
So why is it that the Falklands have that right, but Argentine provinces don't? Please enlighten us on the difference between one and the other.
@41Nov 26th, 2014 - 03:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
What point are you trying to make?
39 HernanNov 26th, 2014 - 04:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
'If the government of the island do not want the EAAF Argentine scientists, working in Darwin, enable the international Red Cross or any British university experts to take samples to be studied in Buenos Aires or in some neutral place.”
That sounds reasonable.
Who is going to fund it? Money up front, please!
On the other hand, any British forensics organisation would be leaving itself wide open to accusations of not treating Argentinian Remains with due reverence.
Probably, in fairness to all, they should be left in peace.
@41Nov 26th, 2014 - 04:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Point is... Night II of USA civil war which I predicted a year and a half ago.
Burn baby burn LOL
I feel sorry for the families.Nov 26th, 2014 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
It's bad enough they lost a son or father. Now, they are manipulated politically and emotionally by their own government!
A ruthless and callous government and their propaganda Trolls
TroyNov 26th, 2014 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Any living relatives that actually knew any of these sacrificial lambs will all be dead in the next 5 decades. It's already been more than 30 years.
Eventually they will just be forgotten historical relics of a past event that the Falkland Islanders will celebrate as the birth of their nationhood.
Over on The Buenos Aires Herald they say ” Malvinas Government has not received....., What a crock of shit. Still I suppose they must say that or they might get shut down. So much for freedom of speech.Nov 26th, 2014 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
@41 Difference is that at the moment no one has contacted the FIG, Argentina will need to do that, no other option if they want to do the work. Where as conversely, the BBC had permission to be in the country and in Tierra del Fuego. What is difficult to understand about that?Nov 26th, 2014 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Now, lets say that one of the scientists was names Malvin and was born in 1982 , would it be OK for the Falkland Islanders to throw rocks at him and chase him into the sea. Just a hypothetical question?
@48Nov 26th, 2014 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Tierra del Fuego seems to disagree, and provinces have the right to deny entry (unlike US states, Brazilian states), argentine provinces can enforce a border control.
So why can the British just waltz in and Argentines cannot?
The only difference is that you perceive yourself as superior and thus allowed to do as you please over other's wishes.
@49 Argentinians are more than welcome to visit the Falklands, as long as they have accommodation for the duration of there stay. But they can't just waltz on in and start digging up a war grave, after all its on privately owned land. They need permission to do so. To be honest i'm not against Argentina digging up the graves if they wish to, it would better to leave them in peace, but it's not up to me, it's up to families of the dead interred there.Nov 26th, 2014 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
TrollNov 26th, 2014 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
What on earth are you gibbering on about.
Which Britons walzed into Tierra del Fuego without permission from all relevant Argentine authorities...name ONE.
Name a single Briton who has broken the law in TdF. to my mind the car in question was imported into Argentina with all the correct and necessary documentation.
The exact identical rules exist in the Falklands.
The Falkland Island Government will control the borders and grant access to whomever they see fit. Many Argentines are granted access annually.
Would you grant access to representatives of a nation that shows no remorse for an invasion in living memory, who has left unmapped minefields near your home and used you and your family as human shields?
You complain that some here see themselves as superior to you, then provide endless evidence to support their view....by posting absolute shite
@49Nov 26th, 2014 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
So why can the British just waltz in and Argentines cannot?
Because the Top Gear team applied for and were granted permission to enter.
British people were in Patagonia before Argentines-if the UK were like Argentina we would be claiming Patagonia.
@52Nov 27th, 2014 - 05:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
To Argentina, that doesn't mean to Tierra del Fuego, which is not the mainland anyway.
In the meantime,
Burn baby burn :)
I have just discussed this with the mother of a soldier who died in the Falkland Islands in 1982, her son is one of the Argentine soldier known only to God and she has visited Darwin 4 times in the last 32 years. She told me that she has adopted one of the unknown soldiers as her own son, and has no wish for DNA testing to say which one really is her son as she considers the one she chose as her son. She also says that she wishes her son to stay buried where he is as that is where he died and that she loves to go to visit his grave because the islands and the cemetery are beautiful and that she has made several friends among the islanders and enjoys her time there.Nov 27th, 2014 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Her opinion of this whole situation is that there is no point in the DNA testing, that if the Argentine government of the day had identified the dead this would not be a problem and that the political use of the dead is horrific. This is a lady of quite humble birth and of peronist roots who has been turned away from her family's political outlook by the disgust at the government's callous use of her son's death.
@54Nov 27th, 2014 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Well said Simon, although they have a lot of the relative’s DNA samples does not mean that they are all in favour testing.
@ 54 Simon68Nov 27th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
That lady seems to have adjusted to her grief (if you ever can) and has taken a realistic view of the situation and I am pleased for her.
TMBOA on the other hand really does need topping, only then will this nightmare for the bereaved end.
@53Nov 27th, 2014 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Burn baby burn
@57Nov 28th, 2014 - 09:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
And Tierra del Feugo means what in English???
Burn baby burn.
http://news.yahoo.com/austin-police-shooter-targets-buildings-downtown-105146438.htmlNov 29th, 2014 - 04:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Burn baby burn: it's just getting started, USA.
#49Nov 29th, 2014 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
you perceive yourself as superior
NO WE DON'T WE ARE SUPERIOR BY REASON OF BEING ANGLOS.
FACT OF LIFE SONNY.
@60Nov 29th, 2014 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
You're an Anglo?
He's a Scot....which probably means there's a fair chance of some Anglo blood...considering the Angles ruled up to and including Edinburgh for hundreds of years before it eventually became Scotland...then there are the Picts...Alba...everything above Edinburgh and the Vikings all the Western Isles and the Britons of Strathclyde....the Celts...Dalriada were a minority in Scotland...Nov 30th, 2014 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Scots are a mixed race.....
...just like the English...
Don't forget the Gaels...Nov 30th, 2014 - 01:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
@62Nov 30th, 2014 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Scots are mixed race ....just like the English... and the Welsh and the Irish ans the Argentinians , I know an Argentinian woman who had a Lot of English in her, my ex-wife.
#61Nov 30th, 2014 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
I used the term Anglo as some Argie posters use that reference to cover NW Europe , the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and various other parts of the world.
I am Scottish from the fact I was born in Scotland to Scottish parents as were they as far back as we know. I have never been a fan of genetic testing....what does it matter ?
Scottish is a geographical term, not genetic. Anyone born here will be Scottish by nationality regardless of his/her parent's origins.
Look at the number of people with Scottish/Irish names in England. They regard themselves as English. An accident of birth defines your nationality.
64 GolfcronieNov 30th, 2014 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Lol, I get the thrust of what you're saying.
I don't doubt that Clyde is Scottish and tells the truth, that is why I have never bothered checking who he is.....Nov 30th, 2014 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Probably an easy task, seeing as he has stated where he was born and when he was born...even down to the exact location....
Though I'll take a stab in the dark that his wife is English from Northumbria.....reading between the lines that is....;-))
Which goes to prove my point about mixed race Scots.....
Scenglish...Scirish....Scelsh...Sciking...or Scicts and of course Scotti which is Irish anyway....
67 Geez... that's big of you.Nov 30th, 2014 - 03:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
#67Nov 30th, 2014 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
No, my wife was born in Renfrewshire and then moved to Scotstoun in about 1949.
Her parents were from Inchinnan.
The Northumberland connection could be that part of my father's family moved to work in the shipyards at Jarrow and Tyneside in 1900.
My brother spent 5 years at RAF Boulmer as a Senior ATCO controlling civilian air traffic through the military low flying zone and Spadeadam bombing range. So, I know and like Northumberland and the Geordies.
This is really shameful. To make politics out of this. OMG, islanders then claim to be morally superior? It's the same old story...Dec 01st, 2014 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
70 AlejoMartinezDec 01st, 2014 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
Who is making this political?
There is much posturing and pronouncements from various Argentine agencies to say they are mounting an expedition to identify heroes etc.
However, the Falkland Islands Government says the Argentines have not informed them or applied for permission to come.
Is that making an issue?
Only a child would say so.
@65 Clyde15.Dec 02nd, 2014 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
Was just an observation on your comment.
Didn't mean to offend. (I can see you are a Scot)
@70Dec 02nd, 2014 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
To make politics out of this.
Not really, the Islanders are simply trying to drag Argentina into reality which means if they want to carry out work at Darwin-they have to ask the permission of the elected government. It does not say that permission would be denied.
The Argentines cannot elect the Islands government because they don't live there-like most places in the world.
'Heroes ' don't lose. Heroes win.Dec 03rd, 2014 - 05:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
History is written by the winners.