MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Gibraltarians support allowing regulated commercial fishing in territorial waters
An overwhelming majority of Gibraltarians believe that Gibraltar should take part in ‘ad hoc’ talks with Spain and the UK and there is strong support for allowing commercial fishing in British Gibraltar territorial Water so long as this is under a properly regulated licensing system. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesNice to know from the poll that the people of Gibraltar believe that S pain is only a minor irritant and that the have more important concerns.
Dec 13th, 2014 - 08:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1. Except that only 650 people were interviewed. Do you think that asking just 2% of the population is really valid? I appreciate that all polls operate this way, but I wonder how many of those interviewed have to regularly cope with the spanish-created frontier queues? I recall a recent article in which reference was made to 5-hour queues. Might not be too bad in December, but what about queuing for 5 hours in the summer under the spanish sun? Of course, properly regulated commercial fishing is impossible. There are already laws prohibiting the raking of the seabed. Do the spanish poachers pay any attention? Still, maybe if they have to pay £5,000 for a licence and get arrested, imprisoned, licence cancelled and have their boat seized for any breaches.
Dec 13th, 2014 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 01st gibraltarian waters do not exist, you assholes.
Dec 13th, 2014 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0read the treaty of utrecht you use to illegally occupy the peñón.
second, the llanitos have no entity to discuss a shite.
negotiations must be between the foreign offices of spain, argentina, ireland, etc and the foreign office of britain.
the llanitos are less important than the macacos.
they are like kelpers in that matter.
@3 Paule
Dec 13th, 2014 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Even Margallo believes that S pain would lose a case concerning Gibraltar's territorial waters. Fact that Gibraltar failed to take the UK's offer and go to the ICJ over the Isthmus, territorial waters, airspace and status of the territory back in the 1960s means, amongst other things, that they have acquiesced and don't have a valid case.
Another point of interest is when Ceuta was ceded to S pain by the Portuguese in the Treaty of Lisbon is that Ceuta's territorial waters weren't mentioned either. Now under UNCLOS both Gib and Ceuta have territorial waters.
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/12/13/spain-not-sure-about-success-in-legal-challenge-of-gibraltar-waters
Lol
Spain cannot be trusted,
Dec 13th, 2014 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0paulie cannot be listened to,
both are anti British...
#3
Dec 14th, 2014 - 09:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're really not very clever.
Firstly, the concept of territorial waters did not exist at the time of the Treaty of Utrecht.
A huge amount of territory has changed hands since the annexation of Gibraltar and the British re-assertion of sovereignty over the Falklands. As you know, Argentina stripped large tracts of land from Paraguay (in one of the most bloody wars in history, measured as the the fraction of the population killed) and colonised Patagonia. Closer to home the USSR expelled millions of people and brazenly annexed their territory (most notably Kaliningrad).
Your country is one of few (Bolivia being another example) who haven't come to terms with these changes and continue to incite violence over them. Pathetic.
boludo 6
Dec 14th, 2014 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0what the fuck would you know about the guerra de la triple alianza and the conquista del desierto, you hillbilly?
you cannot even spell your name, so i guess you dont know a shite.
and when you read a serious book about both issues, get informed about the role of england, the baring brothers bank, the british railway and the british farming companies, you imbecile.
and do not forget to go back to school.
#7
Dec 14th, 2014 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm well aware of the fact that the UK was involved in both, however, that's beyond the point. The point is that there have been countless changes in national borders and that in most cases these have been settled.
Argentina, Bolivia, and Spain today make claims on territory that hasn't been theirs for hundreds of years, and whose current inhabitants are happy with their situation. Countless other countries have accepted much more recent territorial losses.
The answer of course is that your government (and Spain's) clearly do not want the islands (or Gibraltar); if they did they would take their claim to the ICJ (as many other countries have). The Falklands are a convenient rallying call for failing Argentine governments.
Tell us, why doesn't your government take its claim to the ICJ if they really want the islands? My only guess is that they need more time to concoct their lies and spread them around the world.
“ you cannot even spell your name, so i guess you dont know a shite.”
What the fuck are you on about?
7. Paulie .....
Dec 14th, 2014 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your great at the insults but somewhat rubbish at responding to replies to your earlier post.
Lets see if we can get you back on track....
You said “1st gibraltarian waters do not exist, you assholes.
read the treaty of utrecht”
6. In the gutter replied “the concept of territorial waters did not exist at the time of the Treaty of Utrecht.”
and
4.Brit Bob said “ when Ceuta was ceded to Spain by the Portuguese in the Treaty of Lisbon is that Ceuta's territorial waters weren't mentioned either. Now under UNCLOS both Gib and Ceuta have territorial waters.”
So is your point that the treaty of Utrecht deliberately excluded territorial waters. If so don't you think there would have been a clause in the the treaty which made this clear? There is no such clause. Also it's difficult to criticise a treaty for not including concepts such as territorial waters when such concepts did not exist at the time the treaty was written, It's like criticising the Congress of Berlin in 1815 for not recognising territorial airspace.
Also why is it that territorial waters apply to Ceuta but do not apply to Gibraltar. Spain's position in this regard seems to be somewhat confused if not hypocritical.
I eagerly await your well considered and thoughtful response.
Paulie.
Dec 14th, 2014 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'll quote from the Norway/Sweden Delimitation Tribunal of 1909 which will give you an insight as to how old treaties are interpreted.
'The tribunal fully agreed with Norway's contention that on the basis of the Peace of Roskilde of 1658 the maritime territory was divided automatically between Norway and Sweden. The tribunal taking into account the fundamental principle of the law of nations regarding the maritime appurtenance of the land territory...the tribunal notes that in order to ascertain what may have been the automatic dividing line of 1658, it must have had recourse to the principle of law in force at that time.'
The Treaty of Utrecht, like Lisbon and Roskilde mentioned above didn't mention anything about territorial waters.
And remember, S pain turned down the UK's offer to go to the ICJ over Gibraltar's waters, airspace, Isthmus and territorial status back in the 1960s and have therefore acquiesced...
Just like Judge Alfaro said on page 38 of the Temple of Vinear Case in his Separate Opinion...
'Failure of a State to assert its right when that right is openly challenged by another State can only mean abandonment of that right.'
Even Margallo doubts that 'Spain wouldn't win a case concerning Gibraltar's waters..'
You got anything?
Waiting...
When Paul turns to abuse and insults he knows he has lost the argument.
Dec 14th, 2014 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ever thought he and Mr Think might be pretending to be Argentinian in order to reinforce the Argentine stereotype for being boring, overly aggressive windbags?
@3. Pablo, little chile. For a start, correctly speaking, it isn't 'the' Treaty of Utrecht, it's the Treaties of Utrecht. More than one, you see. So can you direct us to the Articles that define or mention spanish territorial waters. I'll help you. There aren't any. As “inthegutter” pointed out the concept of territorial waters as we know it today didn't exist. There was the 'cannon shot rule'. If offshore waters were in range of a cannon fired from the shore, they were your waters. One slight problem was that you had to actually have a cannon there. But it did, gradually, firm up to 3 miles. The current concept of territorial waters didn't come about until 10 June 1964. And when that came into force under UNCLOS I, ALL coastal territories became entitled to teritorial waters. You see how little you know? In the Bay of Gibraltar, the limit of territorial waters is defined by UNCLOS. The median line. About 2.5 miles from each shore.
Dec 14th, 2014 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The people of Gibraltar DO have an entity to discuss nearly anything to do with Gibraltar. It's called Her Majesty's Government of Gibraltar. The next bit is going to be difficult for you as argieland hasn't yet progressed out of the 19th century. The rest of the world, most of it, has moved on to the 21st century. In relation to Gibraltar, the fact is that it is now nearly autonomous. You can draw a parallel with argieland wanting to have commercial flights between TDC and the southern Islands of the free. Ask the UK Foreign Office and get told to apply to the Falkland Islands Government. But you can't do that, can you? You'd have to recognise their governance. And so you fall farther and farther behind.
You know all this. But you have to maintain the myth. One wonders what other parts of your mindless world might fall apart? I strongly suggest that you stay away until you can manage a courteous, educated and intelligent comment. Wait until shortly after you've been buried!
It is good to see that the majority of Gibraltarians believe Gibraltar should take part in ad hoc talks with Spain and the UK and to allow fishing in British Gibraltar. I congratulate the Gibraltarians mature and wise thinking.....
Dec 14th, 2014 - 03:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As this is the true way to finally put this conflict to rest for once and for all.....
#13 Fishing is allowed in Gibraltar territorial waters, it is just methods that may damage the environment that are banned. Obviously there is a dispute over what methods damage the environment, but surely that is for the people of Gibraltar to decide, after all it is their territorial waters as has been demonstrated by numerous postings above.
Dec 14th, 2014 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Paulie,
Dec 14th, 2014 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spain took it of the moors,
Britain took it off Spain,
the moors held it longer than the Spanish,
and the British have /will hold it longer than both of them,
different times , different worlds,
today Gibraltar freely wishes to remain British,
so either Spain accepts the rule of democracy and the right of self determination,
or see the break up of Spain,
and you defiantly are not helping the Spanish...lol
@7 Pauly continues to comment and complain about all things british. Just admit you are obsessed with the brits and desperately want to be one, can't blame you, as your a moronic little argie living in a tin shed LOL,
Dec 14th, 2014 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting article as I live in Gib, I wasn't going to comment, but had to when I saw (almost predictably) that the small minded, racist and lowbrow 'Paulcedron' used the mere mention of Gibraltar to air his anti British views, as he always does.
Dec 15th, 2014 - 07:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0I suspect either a wayward teenager or some form of mental illness in his case...either way (although I am English) I feel a lot of pity for the poor, frustrated, racist leaning man.
@tezza. Such a narrow viewpoint. 'paulcedron' isn't 'small-minded. To be that you have to have a mind. Nor, technically speaking can he be considered 'racist'. That would require him to recognise that other races exist. If you live in Gib you recognise that arabs, africans, asians, even latinos, exist as separate races of humanity. Pablo the pillock can't cope with that. He is indeed 'lowbrow' as there isn't enough space between his browridge and the top of his skull to contain an operational brain.
Dec 15th, 2014 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do not feel 'pity'. I realise that this is difficult for someone with your origins, but you need to consider whether such aberrant individuals should be allowed to exist, confined to 'reservations' or simply exterminated. Just imagine how much happier the world could be without argies and/or spaniards. Two imperialist, colonialist, criminal, corrupt, aggressive states with delusions of grandeur. Back in 1982, argieland had that idea. It was defeated. But there was a mistake. It should have been destroyed. But the opportunity still exists. A single Vanguard-class ballistic missile submarine launching 16 missiles with 160 nuclear warheads from 7,000 miles away. And a second submarine for spain.
The current problem is that the UK declines to respond to spain in kind. Intrusions into BGTW? Then intrude into spanish waters. Intrusions into BGTA? Then fly British Typhoons over Madrid. Attempted spanish 'executive action' in BGTW? Then arrest everything spanish in BGTW. Or sink it. Over BGTA? Shoot it down! Want to be a 'country' and free? Then fight. Do more for yourselves. Quit relying on the RN to do everything. I keep telling my MP that Gibraltar needs more British resources. But you have to help yourselves. Go out and sink the invaders. Arrest them. Imprison them for 20 years. Seize their boats. Get some equipment to shoot down anything airborne. If you do nothing, you will be spanish before you know it.
The irony here is that if you offered a referendum in the South of Spain asking the people if they would prefer to be British rather than Spanish then you would probably get a far higher percentage agreeing than you would by asking the Gibraltarians if they would rather be Spanish instead of British. There are load of ex-pats in Southern Spain and there are loads of jobs in Southern Spain dependent on the British tourist. Maybe we've got this the wrong way around. Instead of getting irritated by the Spanish government we should just go about claiming large chunks of Southern Spain for Gibraltar. It'd be worth it just to see the Spanish reaction. :-)
Dec 15th, 2014 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 019
Dec 15th, 2014 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL
nobody in spain, north or south would prefer to be british, exactly like in the whole f*cking world.
as for those british “tourists” they are known for being the stingiest, drunkest and dirties of the milky way.
and what “ex pats” are you talking about?
the “unlucky 13”?
See Britain's most wanted 'unlucky 13' thought to be on the run in Spain
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-most-wanted-13-criminals-2790050
or this one?
British man held on suspicion of killing father in holiday fight on Spanish camping site
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-most-wanted-13-criminals-2790050
the uk is a factory of criminals and british ex pats must be deported, not only from spain, but from the rest of the countries.
At the very least , the Spanish would get a taste of their very own medicine..
Dec 15th, 2014 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Paulie,
Dec 15th, 2014 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Still waiting for you to clarify the situation surrounding Gibraltar's territorial waters when you said, 'Gibraltar's waters do not exist.'
Or perhaps you have something to say about Argentina's 107th position in the 2014 Global Corruption Index?
Or being in 166th place out of 178 countries in the 2014 Index of Economic Freedoms?
Or perhaps you would like to comment on the UK making the second most donations in foreign aid to assist developing countries. Second only to the USA.
PS Can't see Argentina in the top 28.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_governments_by_development_aid
18 Imbecile
Dec 15th, 2014 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0no, you imbecile.
racism is the discrimination against other human beings.
neither you, scumbag, nor the kelpers nor the llanitos can be considered entirely humans.
you lot are more related with penguins and monkeys than with people.
We thought you guys were complaining on here yesterday demanding to be treated like human beings.
Dec 15th, 2014 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and today you argies compare penguins to monkeys....lol
Further to the mention of British foriegn aid, don't we still give a few million to the Argies? Well someone has to look after the sad buggers...better if the Spanish ones gave Argentina back to its original people and go back to Spain...or does that plan only apply to Gibraltar?
Dec 15th, 2014 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0what millions to the argies, you asshole?
Dec 15th, 2014 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the uk still owes 35.000 million dollars for the food sent to little britain during ww2.
pay your debts, you pirate.
#26
Dec 15th, 2014 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Could you supply a breakdown of your supposed supplies to the UK and then submit an invoice. That is the correct method and accepted worldwide...except by
Argentina, it would appear. Don't you mean Argentine pesos as your pride would not allow you to accept US currency. As for 35,000 million, surely that is the Gross domestic product of ARGENTINA since the country was formed.
26===all debts paid,
Dec 16th, 2014 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0now you pay yours.
..............
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=84898
@20. 'nobody in spain, north or south would prefer to be british, exactly like in the whole f*cking world'. Then could you explain why so many try to get here. Some of them have even died trying. But I expect you'd be on their side. Didn't you make a similar attempt to get on to British territory? Didn't a lot of you die trying?
Dec 16th, 2014 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@23. WE don't have a problem with racism. We deal with all the members of the EU, all the members of the Commonwealth, but we draw the line at argies. Do you have any documentation certifying that you are human? Maybe we could help. We could take you and conduct a post-mortem. Put you to some use. And then use you for pig food!
@26. Got an invoice? As for the 'millions to argies' youj need to look in the EU accounts. No doubt you'll find it signed off by some spanish crim. Possibly the same spanish crims, similar to argie crims, that supported and still support nazis. Just on that basis, sheltering nazi war crims, argieland has a lot to answer for. As does the rest of latam. Latam took over 10,000 nazis. Brazil - Stangl, Wagner, Mengele via argieland. Argieland - Eichmann, Priebke, Roschmann and then on to Paraguay, Pavelic. Who's sub-human? Giving refuge to your pals. Peron's idea. Bet they came in useful during the Dirty War.
ad hoc’ talks with Spain
Dec 16th, 2014 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the Spanish never learn, no means NO,
the other day they told the world , talk were abt to begin,
when told it was not, they went quiet,
today they again announce ad hoc talks will take place next year,
who do they think they are,?????????
29
Dec 16th, 2014 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0it seems you, piece of crap, never learn, eh?
they already use your ancestors to make soap, lampshades and stuff, and you want to repeat the error?
lol
what a brainless hillbilly you are, you piece of crap.
so. as usual. No actual proof from paul-carrion to support his wild claims.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not suprising from a denizin of so-called 'argentina'.
Populism loves the poor, so much so they multiply their numbers.
As a wise person once said.
Meanwhile this the future for paulie...
As President Nicolás Maduro forges ahead with 21st-century socialism, new Christmas traditions are emerging in Venezuela. Huge queues of people waiting to buy supplies or gifts are only the most visible symptom.
Citizens face worsening scarcity every day, and the lines are getting longer. Luis Vicente León, director of Datanálisis, said at the end of November that seven out of 10 shops in Caracas lacked basic goods at government-regulated prices. In August, the scarcity of basic supplies nationwide rose to some 70 percent, and prices were up by 63 percent.
Meanwhile, the Venezuelan Pharmaceutical College revealed in October that 70 percent of pharmacies nationwide lacked necessary medication.
http://panampost.com/sabrina-martin/2014/12/16/battle-with-scarcity-is-venezuelas-new-christmas-tradition/
soon his British invented www will be cut off.
hahahaahhahahahahahahahahah
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hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah
hahahahahahahahahahahha
hahahahahahhaahhahahhahahhahhahahahaaaa!!!!!!!
31 apparently has been reported missing from the local asylum,
Dec 17th, 2014 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0please report if found...lol
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