MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Filmus: Scholar approach at Malvinas Question
Argentina's Secretary of Malvinas (Falklands) Daniel Filmus moves spotlight onto juridical, historical knowledge, continental platform and international relationships to back sovereignty claims Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules”Sovereignty is to be defended with knowledge”, Argentina Secrertary of Malvinas (Falkland) .Islands Affairs Daniel Filmus said...“
Dec 17th, 2014 - 05:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sovereignty - ”Sovereignty, in layman's terms means, a state or a governing body has the full right and power to govern itself without any interference from outside sources or bodies.“
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty
So that means without interference from an un-elected, failed, foreign politician like Danaiel Filmus, one may presume?
His triumph of complete and utter lack of knowledge is the only outstanding acheivement that he has been recognised for, so far.
We await for more insights... lol!
According to the article above, which was first published by 'TELAM', which we can learn is the Argentine national news agency founded in 1945. It provides news and information to about 300 subscribers, including government entities and national and international media. It operates as a state enterprise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty
300 subscribers! Thousands less than this little niche news-aggregator website!
Wiki does note that;
”Télam was established as Telenoticiosa Americana (American Telenews) on April 14, 1945, by an initiative of Vice President Juan Domingo Perón...“
”Télam's financial situation was not strong enough to allow it to function without subsidies. “
”At the present time, the company is a government-owned entity under [its] control ...“
I personally enjoyed this part of his speech:
”...in favour of resuming negotiations to put an end to the sovereignty dispute.”
Dear Daniel. There are no negotiations to be had. There is no sovereignty dispute.
This ended years ago. You need two to tango. As far as the UK is concerned, there is no dispute, no sovereignty claim. It is already resolved.
There is nothing to discuss. NO tango for you.
Get over it.The 'world' doesn't support you, The 'world' just wishes the nutter would just get off the bus and stop embarrassing people.
Oh funny I thought the sovereignty dispute had been decided.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 08:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina got their ass kicked, have no real military or economic capability to try to get the Falklands. Oh wait they have a pope. Lol
Digging deeper is good - just be prepared not to like what you find :-)
Dec 17th, 2014 - 08:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0My digging has taken 5 years so far, and it is still not finished.
https://www.academia.edu/9418421/Falklands_Wars_-_the_History_of_the_Falkland_Islands_
Usual driver dressed up as a new approach as Argentina's illegitimate sovereignty claims sink, with every day that passes, further into the mire.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 01) you shouldn't just look at the historical aspects “which support your claim”, these are weak to non-existent. You should look at the historical aspects which refute and destroy your claim.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 09:56 am - Link - Report abuse 02) continental shelf argument is rubbish...there is no precident that island groups 300 miles of the coast of a continent become sovereign territory of the nearest country (a country itself borne out of colonialism). Otherwise Cuba should be part of the USA....etc etc
3) international support...as of 2008 amounted to Latin countries, and corrupt failed States...40 in total...the UK had support of 60.
Argentina currently has “nothing” and wants negotiations to start in order for them to have “something”. This is not a negotiation. Negotiations can only begin when Argentina offers something.
I would fully support this case going before the ICJ only on the following terms:
1) if Argentina wins, full sovereignty is passed to them of the islands with 30 years grace for the islanders to make alternative arrangements.
2) if Argentina loses:
A) An natural resource rich area the size of the Falklands in Patagonia is assigned as the sovereign territory of the indigenous tribes of Argentina. A $5bn USD payment is made to them by the state of Argentina to kick start their economy.
b) Argentinas government admits it has lied to its population over the Malvinas claim. It is mandated in Argentinas constitution that no further claim is ever made, and it is also mandated that the Argentine curriculum teaches the accurate version of history, and evidences the Argentine lies of the last 50 years
C) Argentina pays its entire and complete debts to all bond holders and holdouts with immediate effect.
On these terms, and only on these terms should “negotiations”begin
What a complete load of old cobblers, Filmus Bobo.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Who are you trying to fool?
lf you want to “negotiate”, what are you offering?
lt would have to be very, very good.
l think you could spare a Province or two!
But anyway, as far as l'm concerned, no deal & as Briton says,“no cigar for you”!
This makes a mockery of academia in Argentina. These “researchers” are given the answer: “Las Malvinas Son Argentinas”, and told (or given money) to go “prove” its true. That's not research or scholarship. Pathetic.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'll take “What is confirmation bias for $1000 please”...
Dec 17th, 2014 - 10:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0This truly has reached the bald hedgehog level, at least by going to the pope they could say that they had a prayer.
@5:
Dec 17th, 2014 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's a fair and reasonable set of terms. Hell, even having only “B” from the loss list would be reasonable.
Unfortunately, the fact is that Argentina will never agree to such terms. Their craven “negotiators” demand they be given the Falklands in violation of the wishes and best interests of the legitimate inhabitants at the end of negotiations, regardless of actual negotiations,
How then will they react to such a request for full justice should they lose at the ICJ?
Seems like alternative speak for “Hmmmm, there seem to be a few gaps in our logic and arguments, better have another look to see if we can find anything else”.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0And if they can't they will just make it up.
Dear Mr. Filmus:
Dec 17th, 2014 - 10:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please stop embarrassing our country. Over and over, the main basis of the Argentinian claim have being debunked. Every single idea deliberately enhanced to create a fake sense of legitimacy in our claim turned to be empty of any content.
Thousands of children have suffered from disinformation at school, year after year, ingraining in them a baseless ´right´ over a territory that, to put it in short words, has never being ours.
All those lies, conveniently fueled by our nationalists agenda, lead to what could perfectly be called as the worst mistake made by Argentina: the falklands war in 1982. Hundreds of our soldiers offered their lives and limbs for a fantasy. Hundreds of our servicemen died defending not our country against a foreign menace, but an extinguishing dictatorship.
I am not going to forgive that.
I am not going to buy the `malvinas argentinas´ lie again.
I am not going to tolerate this nonsense anymore.
As an Argentinian citizen who pays his taxes and who does not want to see his country turned into a world paria, I demand you to stop.
Sincerely.
Seba.
(feel free to print this mail, roll it up and stick it deep up your arse, Mr Filmus)
Myself, not particularly a scholar of any sort...
Dec 17th, 2014 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Am I reading this wrong, I thought that this so called sovereignty dispute was resolved, and indeed wasn't it democratically voted upon also...
I dunno maybe I missed something...!!
“”In the case of the Malvinas, (Think he means Falklands) we must move forward in different areas”, he expressed.“” Erm, right!! had he considered taking this to the international courts to decide, NO of course not, using ACTUAL LAW, is; probably! Out of the depth of such a highly intelligent array of scholars
I propose a new question...
The “Argentine Question” Seriously; what is wrong with these people.
So what he is basically saying is that they have hit a dead end, their lies are not fooling anyone and they just don't have a clue what to do. So as 'inthegutter ' says, Filmus will give you 'the conclusion' , he just wants to know how he can get there.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 11:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Don't the Argentine Government realise what they are saying to the world, they have just admitted their claim has no substance and they need to find a new angle. 70 years on from Peron's claiming the Falklands, the lies have come back to bite them. All that time to dig up information to support their case, yet here we are in 2014 and still nothing.
It's easy to lie when no one can get to see the facts and documents easily, thanks to the internet it is a lot easier to share information and discover the truth, which has unfortunately worked against Argentina.
Jog on Filmus, you are out of your depth.
Seba
Dec 17th, 2014 - 11:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Respect...
5 Monkeymagic (#) you hit the nail on the head:
Dec 17th, 2014 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Scholar approach at Malvinas Question...
“In the first place, we need to dig deeper into the historical and juridical arguments that support our claim.”
Any Scientific, Scholarly or Historical Research will look at all aspects.
NOT just the ones favourable to your position.
In addition how can there be negotiation when the only acceptable position Argentina has is dictatorial.
And why do they go to great lengths to ignore the wishes of the People of the Falklands.
And notice again they quietly forget to mention the equally illegitimate claims they have made on the South Sandwich Islands. I suspect because their “claim” on South Georgia and others is so outrageous it shows the Falklands claim up for what it is. Equally Rubbish.
He sounds like one of these bible 'scholars' peddling 'intelligent design'.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 11:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0In the unlikely event that a valid tribunal or court ever grants sovereignty to Argentina there would be something of a conundrum as the Islands would at that moment become 'occupied by foreign power'.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now item 7 from UNGA resolution 58/317 states:
“Reaffirms the right to self-determination of peoples that remain under
colonial or other forms of alien domination or foreign occupation, in conformity with the Charter and the relevant resolutions of the United Nations;”
Which would mean that the Islanders would again have the right to decide their destiny!
Come to think of it doesn't Argentina claim at the moment that the Islands are 'occupied by a foreign power', or something very similar?
The final Irony is, of course, that Argentina voted 'for' UNGA resolution 58/317!
Here's another good one their research might turn up. UN Resolution 1514 states that :
Dec 17th, 2014 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“1. The subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the Charter of the United Nations and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and co-operation.
2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”
Argentina tries to get round this one by claiming that the islanders are a population not a people, and therefore it's no big deal for them to be subjected to alien subjugation, namely Argentina's.
This is of course, an utterly reprehensible line of argument, but not one that needs to be gone into deeply, since there are only two conclusions possible: either the islanders are a “people” in the sense of the declaration, or they are not.
If they are, article 1 applies, and that's the end of it. Bt if they're not, what exactly are they? Well, Argentina has also been at pains to tell anybody who'll listen, especially at the time of the referendum, just what the islanders are : the Falklanders are British.
Who are, of course, a people. And therefore article 1 also applies.
You have to really deep in the Malvinas delusion to put forward a fascist Untermenschen argument of this nature, when the UN has systematically and repeatedly voted the exact opposite, and whatever the outcome, you can only lose.
SebaSvtz, I hope you are posting through a proxy to avoid your fascist rulers trying to track you and muzzle you! Positive dissent is not tolerated there.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With all due respect to the Argentines ( asapposed veinsto argies ! ) there is a ' Hispanic gene defect' that seems to apply the world over If there is Spanish in the bloood you are automatically 300 years behind those with Anglo corpuscles flowing through their veins , just look at the state of South America., all with Spanish genes ( including Brazil ! ) not just one country all of them, ( except Chile ! ) If I lived over there I would ask myself, “ Why are we all in this state ” ? Over to Paulie !
Dec 17th, 2014 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ SebaSvtz
Dec 17th, 2014 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice post. I don't suppose there is there any chance of getting yourself, or another like-minded individual, elected to run your country?
Just out of interest, what proportion of the Argentine electorate do you think might be ready for a completely new kind of leader, a non-Peronist, economically moderate/conservative, internationally cooperative President, ready to face up to Argentina's problems and start the long walk back in the right direction? Is that a fantasy or would the votes be there it the right person stepped forward?
@ 21
Dec 17th, 2014 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I´d say there´s little chance that the existent % could be significant.
Populism is strong, the number of people who lives out of social welfare keeps increasing, so frankly I don´t see any hope.
Some of the candidates who may run against the gov´s `dolphin` have expressed desires for a more responsible foreign policy, but I have not heard any of them proposing a mature solution when it comes to the south atlantic.
I wouldn´t hold my breath. And yes, such candidate is still a fantasy down here.
Regards.
Chile has a completely different ethnic make up to Argentina. Patagonia attracted Aussies English Scottish Welsh Yugoslavs Russians and Germans to develop the land. There are more indiginous people too, they were not massacred like in Argentina. Whereas Argentina is predominantly Spanish with a heavy dose of Italians. That largely explains the success of Chile and the utter serial failures of Argentina.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hence the need for the moronic pursuit of a lost cause to distract the largely knuckle dragging population.
@3 Lord Ton
Dec 17th, 2014 - 02:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This research together with that of Messrs Pascoe and Pepper is more than enough for Argentina's claim to be withdrawn immediately. Perhaps the UK Government should use these works in a subtle way to counter the lies, myths and brash approach of Argentina.
Who was that said, “Populism so loves the poor, it multiplies them” ?
Dec 17th, 2014 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who-ever it was, certainly nailed that one. I am seeing it everyday right here in Vnzla.
I could probably be arrested for even posting that comment, such is the paranoia in VeneCuba...
Anyhoo, back to the article. On re-reading it, I only find confirmation that Filmus is totatally intellectually bankrupt and is desperate for ideas, any ideas, anything at all.
I hope he takes this fruitless search as far and wide as possible. Thus bringing global attention to his utter failure, as a politician, as an intellectual, and as a man.
Truly he is line for the Universal Gold Medal of the National-Sport of Self-Foot Shooting.
This man is a Legend!
So many excellent comments. But let's note UN Resolution 1514. The UK voted AGAINST this resolution. As did Australia, Belgium, Dominican Republic, France, Portugal, Spain, Union of South Africa, United Kingdom, and United States. And General Assembly resolutions, as has been mentioned many times, are NON-BINDING. Now, doesn't there seem to be some failure of the democratic process? And how many other GA resolutions are based on that one? It's very nice that the UN is interested in decolonisation. But, on what democratic basis does it try to force its views on territories that are not members? I have put the point before that the Falklands should simply tell the UN to butt out! Its argument is with the UK. The UK isn't interested. The Falkland Islanders are happy with things as they are. Why are the UN intent of leaving the Islanders defenceless?
Dec 17th, 2014 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The continental shelf argument ISN'T rubbish. It just isn't complete. Because islands, particularly inhabited islands, are deemed to have their own continental shelves. So it doesn't matter whether the south american continental shelf exists for a thousand miles, a 200-mile radius area belongs to the Falkland Islands and thus to Britain. Ditto South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. And I wonder whether argieland has looked UNDER the ice of Antarctica? I can't find anything to suggest that territorial waters can't be frozen. And argieland didn't make any claim in Antarctica until 34 years after Britain.
We can go back, again, to the legal principle of 'uti possidetis'. At the end of an armed conflict territory belongs to he who possesses it. At the end of the Falklands War, Britain 'possessed' the Falklands, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. The case is CLOSED. Everything before 1982 is irrelevant. Why can't argies understand that?
You would think that the academics would be asked to discover if they actually had a proper claim in the first place, rather than trying to work out any historical, legal or geographical facts to add to their claim.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The first step in preparing a case is normally to look at all of the facts & then determine if any of these defeat or refute any parts of your own claim in its entirety.
The Spanish Foreign Ministry was asked by Margallo to look into the claim on Gibraltar, with particular reference to the territorial waters. The legal experts came back & answered that Spain did not have a case. They could not take the matter to the European Court without losing. So Margallo dropped any legal attack on Gibraltar & instead tried to bully them through delayed border crossings.
There's no point in being a fool by proposing preposterous solutions or theories, if the simplest of facts defeats these. Argentina has clung to the flimsiest of reasons to claim sovereignty, yet failed on all occasions to back these up with compelling & overwhelming reasoning that makes their claim correct.
They have studiously ignored the Islanders & their rights, because they know that this is the single reason why they would be defeated in any international court of law.
Now they are paying scholars to come up with any other facts which back their existing claims, but are not examining whether their claim has already been defeated in the first place!
In my view, this is a complete waste of resources. Argentina is spending tax payer’s money on a claim so full of holes, if it was a house, it would be ripe for demolition. The academics will gladly take the money, but anything they come up with will be a complete waste of time, because the claim can be defeated by the Islander’s rights in the first place.
Now, now, since when it is possible to have a “scholar” approach to a disinformation campaign?? Filmus is obviously a notorious illiterate in these matters.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Filmus may think he is a new Dr. Goebbels!
Philippe
Filmus has to justify his own existence, and in any event the Falklands grievance isn't there to be resolved, it's there to be nurtured and nourished and pampered and perpetuated.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This approach smacks of desperation by TMBOA.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Filmus (now before I start crying) doesn't seem the usual uneducated government minister and clearly took this job to keep some money rolling in when he lost his seat at the last elections.
He is just following orders and he never looks like his heart is in it.
Nothing will happen other than yet another round of presenting (false) evidence to the UN C24.
Dear Daniel
Dec 17th, 2014 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here is a suggested course of action .
Contract the civil engineers who designed and built “ The World ” in Dubai .
Spend what little foreign reserves the country has left on getting them to build “ Las Malvinas ” about 20-25 Kms off shore in the River Plate .
Build loads of expensive hotels and houses on them and call the streets by the Argentine names , rather than the English names .
Commission a film of the islands being “ liberated ” by Camporistas and show it on Canal 7 three times a day .
The plebs will believe it , Cristina will make millions out of the real estate , you will be the next president and everyone can get on with their lives .
Thank you President Barack Obama and Pope Francis, for your leadership. All countries of America (from Alaska to Tierra del fuego), appreciated and will recognize his leadership forever.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Today December 17 is a day that will live forever in the memory of Latin Americans.
Beyond, that many of us in Latin America not share the Cuban ideology, Cuba is an American country and should return to their roots, along with the rest of the countries of America, beyond ideologies, sitting at a table where all the American countries put forward their opinion.
Now the challenge is to the Cubans themselves, hope in a future free elections and multiparty. Cuba should relax its political system towards new horizons, more democratic and flexible. The countries of Latin America has a fundamental role in this last item.
NOW THE ONLY DISPUTE WHICH STANDS IS THE MATTER FALKLANDS / MALVINAS. THE UNITED KINGDOM MUST HAVE THE GREATNESS TO START A DIALOGUE, ONLY THAT, DIALOGUE, NOTHING MORE.
A NEW AMERICA IS EMERGING FROM ALASKA TO TIERRA DEL FUEGO, LONDON TO GIVE ACCOUNT OF THAT.
OTHERWISE, THE BRITISH ISLANDERS WILL BE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN ALL OUR GREAT AMERICA, ISOLATED WITHOUT BEING ACTIVE PARTICIPANTS OF OUR LIFE AS AMERICANS
NOW AT THE MEETING OF MERCOSUR, HERE IN ARGENTINA, ALL COUNTRIES OF THE REGION (INCLUDING CHILE) ARE EXPRESSING, JUST RIGHT NOW, THE UNRESTRICTED SUPPORT FOR THE QUESTION MALVINAS AND VULTURES FUNDS TO ARGENTINA.
FALKLANDS / MALVINAS, FROM TODAY AND LAST GREAT CAUSE OF AMERICA, WE LOVE YOU AND WISH YOU AT HOME, BEAUTIFUL, RADIANT AND VIBRANT AS YOU WENT SOMETIME.
AMERICA WILL NEVER BE COMPLETE WITHOUT YOU.
To the hypocrites of Argentina:
Dec 17th, 2014 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since the restoration of democracy in 1983, Argentina has taken a principled position in the protection and promotion of domestic human rights. In recent years measures have been adopted to reverse the process of impunity and reinvigorate the investigation, trial and punishment of those responsible for violations committed during the military regime of the seventies and early eighties.
Whilst Argentina has made generally good progress in adopting international human rights standards, Human Rights organisations have identified several areas of ongoing concern including Indigenous Rights, Judicial independence, Police abuse, Prison Conditions, and Women’s Rights.
Despite recent economic growth and some improvement in poverty and unemployment indices, segments of Argentina’s population continue to suffer from social exclusion and an inability to fully enjoy their economic, social and cultural rights.
Ha, Argentinas a risk!
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/overseas-business-risk-argentina/overseas-business-risk-argentina
#32 You are either mad or stupid. The people of Cuba have suffered under a windbag dynasty of dictators for generations. They are still under the jackboot.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentines attacked tbe peaceful Falkland Islands and later talks took place. But then crooked dictators arrived and dialogue ceased. Perhaps when your crooked dictators have departed there might be dialogue. Keep dreaming.
@32
Dec 17th, 2014 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You can have dialogue whenever you like. Just ask the FIG. What you can't have is an Argentine colonial government imposed upon the islanders 30 years after the UK was obliged to fight a war to remove one.
There will be no new America emerging until you have grasped that.
In the last year the Argentine President has claimed that even Argentine kindergarteners know the Malvinas are Argentine. Given that it is so straight forward that a 3 year old can understand it why do they need to pay researchers to look into it.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 07:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps instead of being so simple that a 3 year old can understand it, it is instead so obviously a lie that they have to brainwash their citizens to believe it from the age of 3.
Sovereignty is to be defended with knowledge
Dec 17th, 2014 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so take it to the ICJ or SODDY OFFY, twats.
“In the first place, we need to dig deeper into the historical and juridical arguments that support our claim. Then we have the subject of the continental platform and, lastly, the establishment of international relationships that will allow us to strengthen our claim.”
Dec 17th, 2014 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0..........................Oh really????
I will see your “three issues deeply connected to the Malvinas Question” and I'll raise you HMS Dragon.
@3 Lord Ton
Dec 17th, 2014 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“My digging has taken 5 years so far, and it is still not finished.”
Your work is fascinating to read, illustrating how much contact Britain had with the Falklands-even when just visited by sealing/fishing vessels-alas Filmus will only look for anything that might support Argentina's claim.
I have looked at all the factors that might support Argentina but they are almost always counter balanced by something else.
For example Jewitt lands in 1820-but surely there were endless British and American sealers that landed and stayed to replenish water, maybe even eat the scurvy grass etc, even on a non-settlement basis.
However some of them may have been longer on the Islands than Jewitt, so they must also have a claim.
And what about Weddell who was there to allegedly witness Jewitt's claim. But surely the fact that Weddell landed on the islands, also gives him a claim?
There is also an inconsistency with Jewitt claiming the Islands for the United Provinces and them not even knowing he was there, but also the fact he later fought for Brazil against Argentina-this simply does not tie up.
There are so many examples that it would take several pages to point them out, but Filmus simply does not realise that if he cherry picks a few instances which he believes supports Argentina's claim, he cannot (though he will)ignore the counter instances that support British sovereignty, and those that counter the Argentine claim will be missed.
Simply believing that (even this is open to question on so many levels), the United Provinces may have occupied the Islands for a few years, has to be balanced against nearly a total of 200 years occupation by Britain/Falkland Islanders.
Even the Treaty of Utrecht and the Nootka Sound treaty, often quoted by Argentines (but not in their entirety) do not in totality justify a succession of Spanish claims to Argentina.
@5Monkeymagic
Your point 1-an example of the Argentine head-in-the-sand syndrome- RGs ignore the bad news.
@39 Pete Bog
Dec 17th, 2014 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Argentina made several attempts to assert sovereignty over the islands but whether any were stable enough to give her clear title is questionable. The islands were not res nullius, but were not yet recognised by the international community as being under any nations sovereignty.' (the Sovereignty Dispute Over the Falkland Islands, Gustafson L.S. 1988, p26).
Of course, all this changed in 1833.
“The Argentine Ministry of Education has recently launched a program of grants and fellowships to conduct further studies consistent with Tuesday's encounter”
Dec 17th, 2014 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yay - more fairytale stories showed down the throats of innocent school kids!
Why doesn't the UN say anything about that?
3 Lord Ton
Dec 17th, 2014 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Truly excellent work!!
You should be rightly VERY proud of the document that you have put together. It is a very, very well researched and put together piece of work.
The argentine education authority ( if they have one ) would do well to read your work and teach it to their children. It would far surpass the fairy tales that they teach at the moment.
@39 Pete Bog
Dec 17th, 2014 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0David Jewett does not help Argentina's claim at all.
Apart from the absence of any documentation stating that he was sent to the Islands on purpose (or why he was sent) there is the problem that he did not sail to the Islands, but spent months wandering around the South Atlantic looking for Spanish trade ships to seize.
Then there is the little problem of the ships that he did pirate - the Portuguese vessel and the American one.
Most of all, there is the fact that Jewett never told Buenos Aires what he had done - even in his resignation letter. They didn't find out until some time later and from the foreign press.
The most important point though is that the United Provinces did not make a claim to the Falkland Islands based on Jewett's actions.
In 1824, Ignacio Nunez wrote a book, an account of the history, political and statistics of the United Provinces of the River Plate. Nunez had been appointed as the ambassador to London. When he arrived at his post in 1825, he republished the book in London in 1825 in English (see below).
This book is very important, because not only did it set the limits of the United Provinces at that time, but it was used by the UP to explain their side of the story concerning the 'usurpation' of Montevideo by Brazil.
There is NO mention of the Falkland Islands or Malvinas in this book.
None at all.
This book was also intended to be used to promote the signing of the Navigation Treaty, through which the UP hoped to increase investment in the United Provinces, so they could expand their country.
If David Jewett had indeed claimed the Islands on the instructions of the UP Government, then it is very strange that they made no mention of the claim in the book. This book was after all, written by a representative of their Government, their own Plenipotentiary.
https://archive.org/stream/anaccounthistor00ngoog#page/n7/mode/2up
@43
Dec 17th, 2014 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wouldn't the mere fact that the events they base their claim on happened 200 years ago be unhelpful to Argentina? At some point it becomes just that, history...
It's all been said before guys.....thats what makes Filmus so laughable....Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!.
Dec 17th, 2014 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@32 Hernán
Dec 17th, 2014 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.falklands.gov.fk/assets/Outdated-GettingItRight.pdf
www.falklands.gov.fk/assets/LaVerdaderaHistoriadelasFalklands.pdf
@110 HERNAN - YOU REALLY SHOULD READ THESE TWO LINKS THOROUGHLY BEFORE MAKING SUCH OFFENSIVE AND OUTRAGEOUS DEMANDS. THE FALKLAND ISLANDS ARE ALREADY PART OF THE AMERICAS, THAT CAN'T BE CHANGED, HOWEVER THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE AND WHOSE ANCESTORS HAVE NURTURED THE ISLANDS SINCE WELL BEFORE ARGENTINA GAINED ITS INDEPENDENCE FROM SPAIN DO NOT WISH TO CHANGE THEIR PRESENT STATUS.
SO - YOUR WISHES FALL, RIGHTLY, ON DEAF EARS.
LEARN THE TRUE HISTORY AND DO NOT RELY ON THE LIES AND MYTHS WITH WHICH YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED.
ATENTOS SALUDOS.
You should also read what your countryman, SebaSvtz, says in an accompanying thread.
“In the first place, we need to dig deeper into the historical and juridical arguments that support our claim. .......”
Dec 18th, 2014 - 08:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0But Argentina has been telling the world for decades that the historical argument is settled! How many times have they asserted that their claim to the Falklands is absolute, how many times have they confidently quoted the principle of ‘uti possidetis’ of 1810 as sustainment of their claim to soverignity over the Falklands? But now senor Filmus is admitting that their claim is not settled and they need to ‘dig deeper’, well good luck with that, having cried wolf for so long who is going to listen or care?
But Argentina should dig deeper on the Falklands issue, the government and people need to do some deep soul searching and should, in particular look at the way they have treated the inhabitants of the Falkland Islands. Then, perhaps one day, they will be forced to admit they have been wrong and have been perpetrating a huge crime by persecuting the inhabitants of a tiny neighbouring country and lying to themselves and the world about their behaviour.
I am not holding my breath!
Cfk and her debunked government, are nothing but 21st century wannabie thieves and pirates,
Dec 18th, 2014 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0and they want their corrupted mates to support them,
once the Empire building begins,
all her so called supporters will be future victims ,
The Argentine Empire will not stop until all south America comes under her domain.
and the only thing that stops this deluded twat is a tiny weeny islands called the Falkland's,
and backed up by another tiny island called Britain,
isn't it nice and refreshing to be British and stopping this argy lunatic from her ambitions.
ha ha .
@ 3
Dec 18th, 2014 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Great job Sir, I can`t stop reading it.
Several South American countries, most notably Chile and Uruguay, are very glad that Argentina is preoccupied with conquering the Falkland Islands.
Dec 18th, 2014 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This unhealthy obsession is not only used as a smokescreen for the criminal mismanagement of the economy, but also means that arms embargoes prevent any regeneration of their armed forces. Mind you, that also helps the Argentine politicians, because so long as their armed forces lack the means to fight, they also lack the means to stage a Coup d'etat.
If Argentina were an individual rather than a country, they would have been detained in a mental hospital for delusions of grandeur. Next thing you know, they'll think they are God - or Napoleon!
The fact is that 32 years of defeat have given Argentina's neighbours 32 years of peace, free from any threat of invasion or border conflict. They may mouth platitudes of support for Buenos Aires, but this is only to stop the incessant whining from the person in the strait jacket in the Pink House.
Sooner or later, things will get so desperate, the crime will get so bad, that regions of Argentina will end up a feudal zones ruled by crime lords, just as certain parts of Mexico are now riddled with drug gangs that execute anyone that displease them by beheading them.
Then the Mercosur states will have to consider sending a 'peace-keeping' force, to prevent the crime spreading to their own lands. Gradually, over time, parts of Argentina will be absorbed into the neighbouring states, leaving a much smaller and less troublesome country, centred around BA.
I can easily see Chile taking back all of Tierra del Fuego and then Patagonia. In the North, Uruguay will occupy those lands nearest her, whilst other states take charge of the neighbouring land. The local occupants will probably welcome the neighbours, because it will be a relief to live in peace and with low crime for a change.
Argentina becomes more irrelevant every day and one day it will cease to exist.
Reading todays sun newspaper page 2,
Dec 18th, 2014 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the Falklanders are to get a war medal in recognition of their fortitude during the Falkland's war,
David Cameron will announce today,
ALSO
Falklands leaders will soon unveil a bronze statue of Margaret Thatcher next year
And wont CFK be mad lol
@32 Hernán
Dec 18th, 2014 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No use repeating your post. It's just 'double stupidity'.
@3 Stayed up until 01.30 this morning reading your work, congratulations it is a wonderful bit of research.
Dec 18th, 2014 - 05:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0French Guiana any one?
Dec 18th, 2014 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually part of the EU?
They care not abt the French or the EU ,
Dec 18th, 2014 - 09:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0or any other nation with overseas territories or bases,
as long as its not British,
British hatred has been burnt into them from birth.
no heaven for the argies then...lol
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/11300028/Britain-hits-out-at-outdated-UN-decolonisation-committee-in-Falklands-row.html
Dec 19th, 2014 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0When CFK goes next year, will her claims and policy's go with her,
Dec 19th, 2014 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0and will things then settle down.
Argentina's financial malaise will only get worse as time goes by and they approach the election.
Dec 20th, 2014 - 12:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0The only silver lining in the clouds is that the drop in the oil price (which is extremely bad for their Russian friends, will give the Argentine economy some short term relief.
Whoever does get elected, they'll need something to distract the population whilst the Government goes cap in hand to the IMF or Mercosur to agree a rescue package.
So I suspect that whoever does take over, they'll continue the pre-occupation with the Islands - at least until the Falkland Islanders start receiving revenue from the oil production. Then Buenos Aires will turn about face (as Obama did with Cuba) and make requests to speak with the Islanders at last.
@58 nigelwsmith,
Dec 20th, 2014 - 05:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0By then it will be too late for the malvinistas.
They have insulted & threatened us for so long, so when the oil starts to flow, they want to talk with us?
So, non-people(squatters,thieves,pirats)+OIL = People that they will talk to!
How two-faced!
Like a bully in the school yard,
“you give me some sweets & you can be my friend”!
Doesn't work like that, amigos.
Extract your own oil.
That why I stated that the UK and Islands governments should approach the UN and demand Argentina take them to the ICJ [within one year ]
Dec 20th, 2014 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0or all bets are of..
sooner rather than later.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!