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Charlie Hebdo plans to publish a million copies on next week's edition

Friday, January 9th 2015 - 06:59 UTC
Full article 78 comments

Charlie Hebdo, the controversial French magazine that was the target of a deadly attack on Wednesday will publish a million copies on next week's edition, compared to its usual print run of 60,000, its lawyer Richard Malka announced. Read full article

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  • ElaineB

    Good news. They have the right to hold up all religions to scrutiny and criticism if we are to maintain the right to free speech in a democracy.

    There is no right to not be offended.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 07:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    As I'm sure many people have witnessed, the murders of Charlie Hebdo staff hasn't stopped cartoonists across both Europe and the rest of the world honouring the victims and mocking the terrorists. Terrorism didn't stop Londoners from returning to their city's streets after 7/7 and the Charlie Hebdo murders won't stop the worlds free press from satirising the absurdities of radical Islam and other extremist ideologies.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • zathras

    Indeed, the right to criticize is fundamental.

    Religions do not get a “get out of jail free card”, making them exempt.

    If you don't like the hard fought freedoms we in the West enjoy, then you are free to move elsewhere.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Room101

    Yes, indeed. We all have the right to offend one another.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    If people who believe in a particular religion can't take scrutiny, criticism or jokes made about them, then they truly DON'T believe.

    Hence why they react in a violent manner as if to try and 'prove' their belief.

    If these people who murder in the name of God truly, truly, truly believed in God then they wouldn't commit murder, would they?

    NO these people are scum, and scum who hide behind the 'excuse' of murdering for their religion. There are similar people in Ireland, on both Catholic and Protestant sides, who have, and still do 'murder' for their religion.

    But as I said, if they truly believed in that religion, and that all their actions would have consequences, then they wouldn't break one of the most important commandments.

    “Thou shalt not kill” doesn't come with exceptions, and no man, regardless of whether they claim to be speaking on behalf of God (be that Imam, Pope or Prophet), cannot circumvent God's laws.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    Quite ironic isn't it. The French politician without balls actually has the balls!.
    Now send in the foreign legion to the slums and clean the place out. Send them back leaky boats to where they came from.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    Many religions have beliefs that offend atheists or those of other religions, so all religions have to accept they are going to be offended as their beliefs can offend others.

    There will be such a backlash from people now which will result in Islam (whether fair or not) being lampooned and scorned even more, so what these nutters have done for their religion is to turn people against it.

    Doesn't sound like a result.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @7 I agree that Islamic extremists have done more to harm the perception of their religion that any cartoon ever could have.

    I heard a muslim spokes person playing the victim card in a debate yesterday. He effectively said that the extremists were driven to carry out the murders because of the cartoons and called the staff of Charlie Hebdo racist. It really does not help when they send someone like that to try to defend the slaughter of innocents when just about every other muslim leader was condemning it.

    I rarely post links but this is worth a read http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/charlie-hebdo-how-exactly-would-we-like-muslims-to-condemn-these-attacks-9966176.html

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • LEPRecon

    @7 Pete Bog

    That's the point though, isn't it?

    These nutters want to force a response against innocent muslims so they can then claim to be the 'victims' and therefore have to be terrorists to 'defend' themselves.

    Most people seem to forget that this 'war' was started by the muslims. One day the politically correct mob will be silenced and then the west will stop playing nice and then they'll truly know what total war is, no holds barred, is all about.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Everyone should get a few things straight. Islam isn't a religion, it's a cult. The most obvious clues are simple. First, examine its 'holy' book. See how much is 'borrowed'. Look over actual religions. How many condone wars, conquests, occupations, murders? Islam not only condones but instructs its followers to kill those with different beliefs. Islam is a cult mechanism for war, murder, occupation and domination. Which religions find it appropriate to bribe followers to suicide?

    Members of religions tend to gather together. But not muslims. They spread everywhere. Some may say that they are escaping war and violence in their own countries, but are they? Consider Somalia. Mostly muslim. Next door is Ethiopia, 1/3 muslim. Heading west, South Sudan is 18% muslim, 15% of the Central African Republic is muslim, 18% of Cameroon is muslim, Eritrea is 48% muslim, 97% of Sudan is muslim. And where do they 'flee' to? Northern Europe. The same can be said about other 'ethnic' muslims. And they head across to the Americas as well! Why? Because it's part of a 'plan'. They head for places with the greatest personal freedom. Very little of islam in North Korea or China. Because the people are already controlled and restricted. We all have to understand that we are at war. The Quran is a declaration of war. Most, if not all, of us live in countries that have abolished the death penalty. But muslim places believe in stoning people to death, mutilations or in 'honour' killings. The people of even halfway decent states should be demanding that muslims, irrespective of origin, should be removed from their lands and penned up somewhere where they can only abuse and kill each other. They shouldn't even be allowed to travel to proper countries for any purpose. Then we may be able to live, mostly, in safety and security. No-one wants to know what I would do to the charlie hebdo terrorists. But they would die, after many days, unable to scream because they would have no tongues!

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Philippe

    Bravissimo! Je suis Charlie,

    Philippe

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    What about a right to bear arms in France??

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Is there a right to bear arms in Argentina?

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Its become increasingly bureaucratic in recent years to have a RENAR license. I’m stacked but a lot of my guns are not registered.

    The question is Charlie Hebdo was molotoved in 2011, many death threats had being arriving to their offices so why ware they not armed in the building ??

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Anyone have a reasonably accurate count of these “extremist” Muslims? Word is there is only 50,000 of the 1.8 billion peace loving Muslims. If so.....how much damage can 50,00 possibly do?

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    I was amazed that the offices could be accessed from a keypad on the door!!!

    Even my Rolex dealer in Crewe has better safety than that. He and his staff were terrified by a raid three years earlier and he learnt his lesson then.

    A really good armed door with no external access, a view window capable of stopping 7.62x51 rifle rounds (AK's are usually 7.62x39 and much weaker) would have stopped these idiots in their tracks.

    Love the front cover: “the Quran is shit” and “it sops bullets” ha, ha, ha.

    @ 15 Captain Poppy

    I am not falling for that little wind-up. :o)

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @14 Is that typical for Argentines to be heavily armed in their own homes?

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I happen to believe contrary to some the the softer, sympathetic enablers that there are more than 50,000, just based on age demographics alone.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 05:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    And now they're dead.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Huge tensions with Muslims in France. There are at least 4 million and the French arent as easy as the Brits. Bhurka is banned, French schooling is almost 100% secular. There,are periodic riots in sink areas at the outskirts of big cities where many Muslims are penned. Lots of employment discrimination. Lots of French born Muslims now and like many young British born Muslims there are obviously plenty of nutters. This will fall straight into Marine le Pens hands so when she is governing its going to get much worse for French Muslims because she could come to power. Many French born Muslims heading for Britain too for a better life.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Ashame they are dead.....I was hoping the French would reinstate the guillotine.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 18 Captain Poppy
    “I happen to believe contrary to some the the softer, sympathetic enablers that there are more than 50,000, just based on age demographics alone.”

    I agree.

    When 'push comes to shove' and it surely will, once the western politicians are backed up in their own homes, there will be the +14 YO male part of 1.6Bn to deal with.

    @ 21 Captain Poppy
    “I was hoping the French would reinstate the guillotine.”

    I would put money on that, especially if Marine le Pen gets in.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    Well, that's 18 innocent people dead in 3 days. I don't think that any sane person is going to view Islam as the “Religion of peace” any more.

    It does appear that we can not count on the 94% of “peaceful” Islamists to protect us from the 6% of “bad” Islamists

    The last 3 days have shown the whole world what a violent, barbaric cesspit of hate and bile Islam truly is.

    If you still think that Islam is a peaceful religion, go and look at Iran and the intolerance they have there towards women's rights and homosexuality or what about Saudi Arabia? Behold the wonders of Islam!!! In all it's glory..........

    Reason enough we should turn our backs on this outdated nonsense in all of it's putrid, women hating, homophobic, anti-Semitic idiocy.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    In a way, one could say, without precipice that the difference between these nutters and common sense,
    is the difference between the brits and the argies,
    its called BRAINWASHING.

    once brainwashed, the truth is irrelevant, peace is out of the question,
    and only the rule of bloodshed and dictorial rule is allowed,

    perhaps its time to demand loyalty or send them all home.

    either way, you wont change them whilst appeasing them,
    and they wont stop the slaughter until they get what they want,

    A solution will have to be found that the free world must accept ,
    and the bad guy must suffer.

    just an opinion.

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    Is Islam a religion of Peace?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFvklPpGZtA

    Jan 09th, 2015 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    @9
    That's the point though, isn't it?

    “ These nutters want to force a response against innocent muslims so they can then claim to be the 'victims' and therefore have to be terrorists to 'defend' themselves.”

    That is a point but thankfully the French have sent them up to their dream of 72 virgins only to be greeted by clones of CFK with raging Herpes.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 12:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Victor Laszlo

    Je Suis Charlie.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 12:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    CD. Some pics on the peaceful majority of peacefull Muslims practicing honors killings to save the family honorhttps://www.google.com/search?q=islamic+honor+killings&rlz=1Y3JHSK_enUS613US620&oq=islamic+honor+killing&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.16438j0j4&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=7_6xa5hkiAVP9M%253A%3Bundefined%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fhouraney.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F10%252Fhonor-killing-india-father-decapitatation-daughter.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fhouraney.com%252F2013%252F10%252F23%252Flove-islamic-style%252Fhonor-killing-india-father-decapitatation-daughter%252F%3B720%3B477

    Flip through some of the pics. Maybe the PC enablers need to get to the ME and see first hand to believe. I agree with you about Islam. And there are over 600 million Muslims under 25.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @28 The murderous terrorists that carried out the killings at the Charlie Hebdo offices were not real muslims. Oh, they claimed to act in the name of their imaginary deity but they are, in reality, the work dogs of terrorists groups fighting to retain power over their oppressed people.

    I won't support your plans for genocide but that doesn't make me an enabler. It makes me rational in the face of your craziness.

    No one seems to want to even consider how to tackle the root of the problem without blaming ALL muslims. It is a stupid a solution as it is impossible.

    These terrorist groups are masters at finding disenfranchised youths with a huge chip on their shoulders and hatred of the world. They give them something to identify with and brainwash them into becoming killers. They are dangerous, more dangerous than the Nazis or the IRA. Neither reduced us to being no better than them and neither will these terrorist groups.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    @28
    That is disgusting, but a reality for what ?? Over 800 million women world wide??… And I’m a misogynist for saying Elaine is a Piers Morgan with a vagina !!

    In WW2 there was no such thing as “a fringe of Nazi extremist, while the vast majority of them ware supposed peaceful practitioners of the ideology”

    During the Cold war there was no such thing as “a fringe of communist extremist, while the vast majority of them ware supposed peaceful practitioners of the ideology”

    So was Fascism and communism defeated when they where fought as entities, you can’t defeat the EVIL AND PERVERSE IDEOLOGY of Islam as long as you don’t identify it and recognize it as a whole entity

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @30 “And I’m a misogynist for saying Elaine is a Piers Morgan with a vagina !!”

    Yes you are and well done for admitting it. Not just for that remark but many more that seep out when you are angry. You can't help what you are.

    According to you, CD2, the Nazis were just misunderstood and not really evil at all, they killed nicely. They didn't carry out experiments on Jews, or rape them, or mutilate them, or starve them or kill children? Why, you, CD2, think the concentration camps were more like holiday camps.

    Terrorists, like the IRA, use ideology to justify the brutal oppression of their own people. They instil fear to gain power. Don't give in to it.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    @31
    Pffff... and to think I once had respect for you.

    If you are going to debate only by spining at least learn how to do it right.
    Because people can really tell it.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Elaine.....my plans of genocide? Oh please.....you sound like an RG troll backed in a corner. Please cut and pate my genocide plans because I seem to have forgotten them.
    where in the middle east have you been to not see Islam as a violent religion?
    when the Imam's start denouncing this shit maybe things will change in your peace loving religion.

    94% of 1.8 billion

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @32 Your good opinion means nothing to me.

    @33 I am not in a corner. Once again, I have never claimed Islam is a religion of peace. No religion is inherently peaceful. Try to keep up.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I will try when you show me my post for Islamic genocide. Having a blonde moment with that claim is advanced genocide?

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @35 If you genuinely don't wish to persecute, blame, or kill all muslims for the actions of the small number of terrorists claiming to act in the name of Islam, I sincerely apologise.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I don't.......but I do hold majority of the “other 94%” Muslims culpable for the lack of outrage the extremists and terrorist are bringing upon their religion as a whole. It's a religion that lives in the dark ages and it where Christianity was between Charlemagne and Gutenberg.

    As an American and a former soldier, I do hold the “right” to practice religion freely and would have died to provide that right. However, I've also seen the lunacy during my tenure that religion carries.......and not just Muslims, Jew but Christians as well. And their majority is silent as well and sit on the sidelines as the radicalized minority speaks for the whole. If religion, all religions want to survive humanity, these silent majorities need to step, speak up, reach out that regain control of their religion. Mankind as a whole is not going to continue accepting believes that cause so much death and carnage.

    Just my thoughts.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @37 I agree with some of that. The majority in all religions should condemn the minority extremists, though I don't condemn the whole religion for the actions of the extremists. Especially when the reality is the religion is just the vehicle for terrorists to exert power, fear and oppression.

    And let us not forget the extremist atheists. They are just as abhorrent.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    As I said, I do not hold them responsible for the extremist actions per se, but I do believe they are responsible for allowing the extremist to take control of their religion because that is what they are doing when the vast majority silently sit and watch as they lose control to them. If I were an Imam, I would be on every news network that would listen denouncing them and spreading the word that this is not the way is is written........but they do not......or too few. I've seen a few here and there on the Boston and area channels but very few.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    IF the Muslims of the world, all marched to say [ not in our name or religion]
    would this not embarrass these murderers .
    just a thought,

    not that we will ever see it.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    They do not denounce the extremists because afterall, at the end of the day, while they themselves are not killing.....they realize the extremists are only killing “infidels”.

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @40, @41

    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/columnists/jacquielynn-floyd/20150108-should-mainstream-muslims-denounce-terrorism-they-do.ece

    “Moderate Muslims must speak out,” says a Huffington Post headline. “You don’t see denunciation of radical Islam by mainstream Islamic groups,” a guest expert on a cable-news program said Wednesday.

    You don’t? So what about those denunciations from leaders in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Jordan, Bahrain, Morocco, Algeria and Qatar? How about that strongly worded message of sympathy and solidarity to France from the president of Egypt?

    And those condemnations from the U.S.-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, from the two largest umbrella groups representing French Muslims, from the National Council of Canadian Muslims, from the Arab League, from the Muslim Council of Britain, from Cairo’s Al-Azhar University? Do they count?

    When Mehmet Gormez, Turkey’s director of religious affairs, denounced the Charlie Hebdo massacre as “an abuse of the name of Allah” and a “crime against humanity,” did everybody get the message? Or does he need to make personal phone calls?
    .....
    “Mainstream Muslims are speaking out, clearly and consistently,” wrote Rabbi Marc Schneier, president of the Foundation for Ethnic Understanding, who addressed the issue in a Washington Post guest essay published just a few days before the Paris murders. “Yet somehow their responses are not being heard, barely registering in the public consciousness. ... People don’t realize that there is a diversity of opinion within Islam and that most Muslims condemn extremism and violence.”

    Even Hezbollah has denounced the events in France.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/columnists/jacquielynn-floyd/20150108-should-mainstream-muslims-denounce-terrorism-they-do.ece

    Jan 10th, 2015 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    @17 Elaine B, Not it is not usual for Argentine's to be armed in their homes.

    I guess I am not normal as I am heavily armed in my home and I also carry in my vehicle.
    Terrorists are like motochorro's, they should all be shot on sight.

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @43 Thank you for answering my question.

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 04:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 43 Klingon
    “Terrorists are like motochorro's, they should all be shot on sight.”

    Hooray, somebody with balls!

    However, have you had professional coaching in the use of firearms where civilians may be injured or killed? Lessons on understanding body language under stress are also very useful.

    Hope you have a back-up piece, you never know when a semi-auto is going to malfunction and revolvers just do not have the capacity.

    Go get them!

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    No one is mourning the shot terrorists. They should be shot as they were in the recent terrorist attacks. They are more trouble if taken alive.

    Fortunately, it is not normal for civilians to be armed in the U.K. and long may it remain like that.

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 46 ElaineB
    “Fortunately, it is not normal for civilians to be armed in the U.K. and long may it remain like that.”

    Before the pistol ban and as a member at the time of one of the Police Firearms Advisory Panels and a formal correspondent with the HO on firearms I cautioned that to remove the then PRESENTLY held firearms would likely result in a massive increase in deaths due to illegal shootings.

    Guess what? Check the number of deaths that have occurred since the ban.

    Simplistic PC views are always a danger to others.

    Only the police (check their incorrect shootings (including themselves)), the Armed Forces (do you want them on the ground with civilians) and of course the gangsters (the real problem) who don’t abide by the laws anyway HAVE FIREARMS.

    Certainly SO8 knew that this would happen but their advice to the pollies fell on deaf ears because the PC brigade and the seven member Snow Drop Committee (don’t let ONE other child die) were seen to be the voters of the future. Check out how many children have died BY FIREARMS since that little statement was made.

    But I realise I am wasting my time with you.

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @47 So you love guns. Great. Live it up.

    I don't and neither do the majority of people living in the U.K. It is not 'P.C.' to not like guns, it is common sense. Why don't you look at the number of gun related deaths in the U.S.? I don't want to live like that but they chose to, their choice. You would fit right in.

    Now, you seem to love listening to the trolls make wild accusations about me and then believing them as fact. I couldn't care less what you think of me but it is rather embarrassing, don't you think? A man of your age so easily manipulated by Argentine trolls. Try thinking in dependently.

    And please, don't waste your time with me. You cannot stand anyone having an alternative opinion to yours. Be as narrow-minded and intolerant as you like. I respect that you choose guns. I don't and never will.

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • commonsparrow

    Great words from the great pornographer Larry Flynt: Free speech is only important if its offensive.
    http://edition.cnn.com/videos/justice/2015/01/09/larry-flynt-free-speech-orig.cnn/video/playlists/atv-entertainment-videos/

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 48 ElaineB
    “You cannot stand anyone having an alternative opinion to yours. Be as narrow-minded and intolerant as you like. I respect that you choose guns. I don't and never will.”

    So what would you say to someone who used a gun to save your life?

    Give him a dressing down for hurting your sensibilities? I doubt that very much.

    I hope it never happens to you, but you do go to some dangerous places.

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @50

    No. You are using a ridiculous example to justify your love of gun.

    I have no problem with you wanting to play with your guns but I don't want to join you.

    Luckily the majority agree with that point of view and it is not normal, or legal, for everyone to have guns in the U.K.

    Why do you have such a problem with someone holding a different opinion to you?

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    Chris R, I am ex Military and regularly go to the Tiro Federal to practice.
    I am not a fan of revolvers, prefer my large capacity 9mm to spray down the bad guys.
    I still think guns should be regulated where obtaining a gun licence and safe use needs to be stricter.
    Also criminals founds with guns should get 10 years minimum.
    I am all for good guys with guns/ bad guys no.

    Jan 11th, 2015 - 10:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I am ex military as well. However my love of weaponry dies over the years. Primarily seeing the end results more than I care to remember. I always thoughts pilots had it made. Release a few tons and never see the end result.

    However, I can never live under the rule that only police, military and criminals can have weapons. Now that is not to say I think it's okay here in the states because it is not. The NRA has the public thinking background checks is the first step in taking them away. People should be allowed to hunt, target shoot and....have a weapon. Hell....give me a K Bar and I can go into a Mall and do as much damage as some poorly trained idiot with a gun before I am taken out. People fear guns because they've been taught to. Sound regulations and controls and there is no reason to outlaw them.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 51 ElaineB

    It is of no use even trying to have a sensible ‘discussion’ with you over guns.

    You remind me of the Australian Prime Minister John Howard who, after the awful illegal shooting they had and the results of the investigation (that he himself called for) were in, said, and I quote: “Don’t confuse me with the facts; I’ve made my own mind up!”

    That act of stupidity stayed with him until he left his post.

    @ 52 Klingon
    “I am all for good guys with guns/ bad guys no.”

    That was how it used to be in the UK when we had very little problem with illegal firearms other than shotguns. But foolish people overlook that, or in reality don’t GAF as long as they can get drunk.

    @ 53 Captain Poppy
    “However, I can never live under the rule that only police, military and criminals can have weapons.... Sound regulations and controls and there is no reason to outlaw them.”

    Exactly. Try telling that to ‘reasonable’ people in the UK: IF you can find one once you mention guns!

    Northern Constabulary were clearly at fault with the awful Dunblane shootings. The LAW was clear as well as the Home Office Guidelines: Thomas Hamilton, the mentally unstable shooter who killed the children had been reported to the police by his own gun club and no less than two ranking NC Officers, one male the other female had carried out independent interviews at different times and had agreed with the club: he needed his firearms certificate revoking for the public safety. ‘Senior Management’ in the NC were concerned he could sue them through the courts and let it run with disastrous results for the kids and all the shooters in Britain.

    Now the UK is littered with black on black gun killings as well as low level criminals carrying them without fear of being stopped.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @54 “It is of no use even trying to have a sensible ‘discussion’ with you over guns.”

    There you go again, just because I don't agree with you. YOU could never change my stance on guns but that does not mean I have not listened to and considered both sides of the wider debate before forming my opinion.

    “…..But foolish people overlook that, or in reality don’t GAF as long as they can get drunk.”

    People that don't agree with you are foolish and drunks. Great argument you have there. If they are drunks it is better that they are not armed drunks.

    You really are a bitter old man. I take it you get the Daily Mail online because you sound like it. The preferred weapon of most gang crime is knives but that doesn't really fit your argument for arming everyone in Britain, does it. Your opinion about guns in in the minority in the U.K. and will never happen. Relax, you don't live here anymore so none of it affects you personally.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    So ChrisR, are people in the UK no longer allowed to hunt? While I use to hunt but no longer do, I still love fresh venison and a good pheasant.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @56 Me too, not so much pheasant as it often has shot pellets in it.

    Fox hunting is banned but not that enforced except by the rampant animal rights brigade. Drag hunting is pretty popular.

    Controlled culling is part of the necessary maintenance of the countryside.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I've never been a fan of hunting for the sake of the hunt. I was a bug deer hunter at one time. Never hunted moose though, I always felt they were too majestic of an animal to kill. besides, it would be one hell of a job getting them out. Big game hinting I always thought as a sad and tragic sport. Killing for a trophy.

    So there is no general hunting seasons in the UK? And drags hunting?

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Yes, there are shooting seasons. Mostly birds and rabbits. Part of land management is to control numbers of deer etc. They can cause a heck of a lot of damage.

    Drag hunting replaced fox hunting. A trail is set by humans for the hounds and horses to follow rather than chasing a fox.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 56 Captain Poppy
    “are people in the UK no longer allowed to hunt?”

    Take no notice of ElaineB she has NO idea what IS the law in the UK regarding firearms, including air weapons and paintball guns. WTF fox HUNTING has to do with it is beyond me (OTHER THAN THEY USE GUNS - good grief!).

    The basic rules are and have ALWAYS been that ANYONE can have a firearm PROVIDING;
    1) Applicants must have a valid use for firearms such as work (foresters), they control vermin on land they own or have the permission to do so on other ground, are deerstalkers, they are a member of a HO Approved Shooting Club, ANY type of recognised target shooting is allowed:

    2) The application form requires details of your doctor and two ‘referees’ both of whom need to know you personally but only ONE can be related to shooting and NO police officer of any rank may sign for you. The referees have to complete their form without disclosing to the applicant what they have written and send it off independently. This is to stop nutters like Hamilton who killed the kids at Dunblane but should have had his ticket revoked under the existing guidelines anyway (Northern Constabulary fucked up)

    3) The police are responsible for administering the system but use civilian officers to do the work. The quality of these ‘officers’ used to be lamentable, they didn’t even understand the law or HO guidelines but the embarrassment THAT caused made the HO regulate them centrally (though this is not public knowledge).

    Your firearm security is checked it meets the guidelines and as long as you are a genuine applicant your Firearm Certificate is issued with the numbers of firearms you are permitted to purchase or ‘otherwise aquire’ and off you go.

    There are limitations on the types of firearms you can possess and use:
    NO short barrelled pistols except muzzle loaders (I had three just before I retired to Uruguay) no self-loading rifles except 0.22 lr rf (I had five)
    Part 2, (nine lines)-

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 06:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    We have 50 different regs here in the USA. Some have absolutely no rules whatsoever. I will let you guess what states they are. The NRA are unbelievably strong here. ANd, as you may have guessed the Republicans heavily wrap themselves around the NRA and the 2nd Amendment. As you can guess they vast majority of gun owners in the USA are not your typical wealthy republican. Without gun owners....the Republicans just might be the 3rd major party in the USA. They have a serious issue with background checks. Fear the government is coming for you guns is the mantra and they, the NRA uses the UK as an example. Right or wrong they use it. They have these catchy phrases like:

    “I will give up my gun when they pry my cold, dead fingers from around it”

    Goes back to thew 70's.

    By NRA standards.....it's ok to allow psychos to possess weapons.........so long as the 2nd amendment remains intact.

    ” We were created in violence and we shall parish in violence.”-cp

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    PART 2:
    I also had a free pistol for International Target Shooting (I can REALLY shoot target pistol) and a whole rook of fox (vermin) rifles, small deer rifles (calibre) medium deer rifles and large deer rifles. I never sold anything.

    The bastards took £17,000 worth of fullbore centrefire pistols off me in the ban including an original Colt SAA 2nd generation revolver that I brought personally from Colt America. One of my sons even had to surrender his gorgeous Colt Python, 6 in barrel with worked target trigger which my mother left him the money for in her will.

    Whenever you see 'IMO' you know one thing about the writer, they invariably know nothing about the subject, or otherwise it would not be an ‘opinion’.

    I have been shooting proper firearms since I was 12 YO (P08 Luger) and stopped when I was 65. I never shot at anything human: I was trained NOT to.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I would be a bit more than pissed off. Were you reimbursed for them? I am not one of the paranoid doomsday nutters, but I have serious reservations of the government taking my personal property without due process and to me voting in some edict is not due process.
    As for your last sentence, most people can't because they are raised with that being a major taboo wrong. Even when you are trained to do just that it is no easy task. The only way for the most part it does get acceptable for those trained is because it is usually such chaos and the adrenaline that is pumping has you forgeting it is people and then there's the anger.....they tried to kill me you a just want to wax them.
    These terrorists are outright demented and the lowest forms of life there is. To kill the way they do, the decapitate as they do and to want to die in glory......I just cannot even word it how I feel about them. When you see what they've done to children, women and the elderly........they desire the highest level of misery and suffering possible.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 63 Captain Poppy
    “Were you reimbursed for them?”

    Yes, but nothing like the valuation that they COST me.

    I should have said in my other posts but it’s obvious for the Brits, WE ARE NOT ALLOWED ANY FIREARMS FOR OUR PERSONAL DEFENCE.

    It doesn’t matter if the robbers come to your house with illegal pistols or even MAC10 machine pistols (a gangsta favourite) YOU CANNOT defend yourself.

    If you do YOU will be charged and have to face a criminal prosecution. ‘Camoron’ has repeatedly said citizens can defend themselves ‘as required’? But he is NOT the guy who decides for real. Great, eh.

    Our Police are supposed to defend us, only trouble is they closed our village substation then closed the TOWN station after 20.00 hours for a phone in the wall outside. Staffordshire have TWO firearms response teams and I knew them all personally and the team leader once said to me ‘shoot the bastards inside the house and make sure you kill them: just be careful of how the scene looks’. In other words DON’T SHOOT THEM IN THE BACK!

    I could go on forever about the cock ups with the new law cobbled together by the likes of ElaineB ‘to keep us safe’. But they soon found out that the shooters knew more about the real law than they did and were forced to issue ‘General Licences’ for all sorts of things from soft nosed ammunition to my Free Pistol (they really liked that when they lost in the London Court).

    There is NO substitute for knowledge, 'IMO' doesn’t make it true.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @64 Just because you brought my name up again.

    I am very sorry they took your guns away from you as you clearly loved them. Nothing to do with me. I don't makes the laws.

    We don't agree on the issue of guns. I respect your view. You attack me and by some weird logic hold me responsible for the gun laws in the U.K. Attacking me won't change a thing. Why not go back to the U.K. and argue your case, convince enough people to change the law? (Acting angrily won't help you).

    I realise your life has not turned out how you hoped and you are bitter about it but try to appreciate what you have. Your wife's improved health, you live in a great country Uruguay - not that terrible place the U.K. that you run down at every opportunity - and enough money to live well. You have a lot to be happy about.

    Jan 12th, 2015 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 65 ElaineB

    Ah!

    So now you are an amateur psychologist! Or is it just another one of your famous ‘IMO’ pieces that you come up with, you know these: utter lack of knowledge on the subject but that doesn’t stop you, does it?

    I would be more impressed, if just for once or so you came up with “in my experience” or even ‘in my judgement’.

    I am not ‘bitter’ about the UK, but I am most certainly frustrated by the utter disaster that is unfolding in front of us, not for me but for my extended family still in the UK.

    But I do agree that I have a lot to be happy about and I am: it is when you start up on subjects dear to my heart that you clearly know nothing about that pushes the buttons.

    My fault entirely of course, but you hadn’t used to be like you are now ‘IMO’.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @66 Probably best you don't read my posts then. I can express my opinion as and when I choose to just as you can choose to disagree with it. YOU don't dictate what I choose to post about.

    You sound very bitter in your posts.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Funny thing about writing; posts, blogs and emails et al. They can come across bitter, angry, arrogant and smug, thoughtless and the chances are they are not meant that way.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @68 I agree that they can be misinterpreted but the use of foul language and personal insults is a strong indicator of intent. For instance, the name used by ChrisR for Gordon Brown - whom he holds solely responsible for the loss of half of his fortune - couldn't be interpreted any other way. That he and others that frequently use that word on a forum says a lot about their character.

    His referring to 'people like me' as being responsible for the gun controls in the U.K. are pretty unnecessary. He doesn't like my opinion and instead of just saying so, as any rational person would, he get's nasty and personal. You would think I took the guns from his hands rather than just agreeing with the majority in the democratic U.K. We are not and never will be an inherent gun culture.

    I have to say that, after consideration, my judgement is that it is a jolly good law that prevents intolerants from having guns in the U.K. one of the rules of issuing a gun licence should be to test if a person can hold their temper in the face of disagreement. Boasting about knowing how to arrange a crime scene after murdering an intruder might be amusing to some but it shocks me. It helps confirm my judgement that guns should not be freely available for all and sundry.

    Imagine living in a country where the terminally stupid, like CD2, with a his vile ranting and prejudice, can be allowed guns? In any civilised country he would have them taken away. (Though I am comforted by the judgement that he is lying about owning guns). The U.K. hasn't sunk that far.

    Yes, sometimes we need to step back and see comments in context and I often decide to leave alone or give the benefit of the doubt. But if my name is dragged back into a debate, I will reassert my position on the subject.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 69 ElaineB

    I am now convinced you did not read my posts from this laughable reply. Didn’t answer any of my real comments about you, did you.

    “Boasting about knowing how to arrange a crime scene after murdering an intruder”

    What a load of codswallop: was that ‘gentle’ enough for your new found precious sensibilities? The person would have been carrying an illegal firearm (unlike all of mine) and be out to rob, rape and probably kill us and it was the Police themselves who gave me the advice.

    Is there something wrong with your health? You never used to be so prissy and naive as you have shown yourself to be just lately?

    Anyway, don’t fret yourself further: this will be the last time I reply to you.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    I like the fact that the main papers of Argentina Clarin, La Nacion and INFOBAE did print the new Mahammed cartoons

    http://www.infobae.com/2015/01/13/1620612-un-mensaje-oculto-el-nuevo-dibujo-mahoma-charlie-hebdo

    http://www.infobae.com/2015/01/13/1620612-un-mensaje-oculto-el-nuevo-dibujo-mahoma-charlie-hebdo

    http://www.infobae.com/2015/01/13/1620612-un-mensaje-oculto-el-nuevo-dibujo-mahoma-charlie-hebdo

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @70 ”The person would have been carrying an illegal firearm (unlike all of mine) and be out to rob, rape and probably kill us”

    You could not possibly know all of that. If they were armed they most probably would intend to rob. The rest is assumption.

    That aside, even if the police did say that to you, why on earth would you put it on a message board if not to show off? If you still had the guns that would be a great way to lose them. It shows proof of premeditation and it wouldn't matter how you arranged the crime scene.

    I have never liked your foul-mouth. It has deteriorated over time. As I told you before, it was the reason I stopped reading most of your posts. The only thing that has changed is that I dared to disagree with you and you can't stand it. I won't agree with you because IMO the guns laws in the U.K. are the will of the majority.

    I respect your position on guns and you should try to be tolerant enough to see people can hold a different view.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 71 CabezaDura2

    A certain person gave you the nick :Danger Mouse’ attempting to ridicule you without, as usual, knowing what she is on about.

    Danger Mouse is a children’s cartoon SUPER HERO!

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Danger+Mouse&oq=Danger+Mouse&aqs=chrome..69i57.4843j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

    Of course it could just be one of her famous ‘opinions’.

    I showed my wife the posts about me from this person and answered her as accurately as I could when asked ‘how old is she?’. Of course, I saw it straight away when she replied ‘you know what she’s going through, don’t you?’

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @73 Ah, bless. Doing the passive aggressive thing are you? Silly old duffer. Stop embarrassing yourself.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    73.
    Ohh that time of the month….Mind you I don’t think she has those many left.

    Beware you and your wife may have just caught themselves the “misogynist label” of her and her suck puppets … once you get those you will never get them off.

    She is a manipulative maniac. Just look how she tries to keep someone that has just made an excellent point around convinced we are gun loons and deranged, anti social people that are just going off to kill poor and innocent rapists and thieves because we love being in that situation.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 74 ElaineB
    “Ah, bless. Doing the passive aggressive thing are you? Silly old duffer. Stop embarrassing yourself.”

    You won’t get round me by paying me compliments and I have been insulted by better people than you ‘as they say’

    However you and I both know that my wife is correct, don’t we?

    So credit to you for not lying by trying to deny it.

    @ 75 CabezaDura2

    No, you misunderstand completely. It’s the opposite.

    And it usually lasts for years and can be very upsetting for the woman, so cut her some slack please.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • CabezaDura2

    I wasn’t entirely sure... She was a big fan of this Danger Mouse cartoon in the 80s, so it seems. But then again if she was a early teen in the 80s then yes.

    But menopausal, bureaucrat and single must be a pretty scary prospect for a woman even a for one whom visits John Boehner's office…. And worse if she happens to have no kids.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @76 I am sure your 'wife' is very proud of you. And fishing about my age will get you nowhere.

    Why don't you go and play with CD2 (Danger Mouse) he will be thrilled to have his first ever friend.

    Jan 13th, 2015 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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