MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands unveil bronze bust dedicated to Baroness Margaret Thatcher
Falkland Islands residents will gather this Saturday afternoon next to the 1982 Liberation Monument for the unveiling and dedication of the Falkland Islands Government commissioned bronze bust of Baroness Margaret Thatcher. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“They are few in number, but they have the right to live in peace, to choose their own way of life and determine their own allegiance.”
Jan 10th, 2015 - 07:52 am - Link - Report abuse 01 Leiard
Jan 10th, 2015 - 09:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0well said!!
I can't wait to hear what the neighbours think of the bust.......... they will probably think its more evidence of English imperialism or something like that.............
No doubt the a Islanders will toast her every year as they celebrate liberation day. Meanwhile Argentine will cry into their cups and curse her every year when they celebrate oppression day. Does anyone know of another nation that celebrates the start of a war rather than the end?
Jan 10th, 2015 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina spend millions on monuments to celebrate it's political leaders but can't find the money to keep the lights on.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Héctor Timerman denounces spending 1 million pesos at the monument to Néstor Kirchner
http://www.cronista.com/economiapolitica/Bonafini-La-Francia-colonialista-no-tiene-autoridad-moral-para-hablar-de-terrorismo-criminal-20150109-0093.html
Neighbourhoods of the Capital and GBA are without light.
http://www.cronista.com/economiapolitica/Bonafini-La-Francia-colonialista-no-tiene-autoridad-moral-para-hablar-de-terrorismo-criminal-20150109-0093.html
Margaret Thatcher had more balls than every prime minister we have ever had!
Jan 10th, 2015 - 10:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Enough already of this veneration of Margaret Thatcher. Let's not forget the following:
Jan 10th, 2015 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 01. She was just one of many British prime ministers and cabinet ministers who in the decades before the Falklands War and since, have actively contributed to the running down of British military capacity with seemingly never ending cuts. The cuts that occurred or were shortly due to occur under her govt in 1982 are widely thought to have encouraged the Argentine junta to invade. It is also widely thought that had they waited just a little longer for those cuts to take full effect, the invasion would have succeeded.
2. The invasion itself caught the British government totally flat-footed and happened on HER watch. Foreign Secretary Carrington at least had the decency to resign over his part in the incompetence- Thatcher should have also resigned.
3. Most importantly- Thatcher, ever the politician, led a government that was already unpopular with the electorate- she knew that she would never survive the next election (with or without a British counter-invasion) if the Falklands remained in Argentine hands. Ordering the task force south was her only possible option for her own survival- she had absolutely nothing to lose by doing so and everything to win. There was no 'courage' in her decision, it was her only choice. It was the right decision of course, but almost certainly made for completely the wrong reasons. The freedom regained for the islanders was a side benefit of her own political restoration and her victory at the next election.
There are other things too, such as (for example) political meddling in military affairs once the task force was under way, but the above 3 major points are sufficient. Her own incompetence created the situation that led to her later 'greatness', at the cost of other people's lives.
Venerate Thatcher if you absolutely must for regaining the islands, but never forget who lost them in the first place!
to the running down of British military capacity with seemingly never ending cuts
Jan 10th, 2015 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0got it in one...
I hope that they leave enough space so the Argies can't spit on it and that they put an electrical fence around it with 1000v and serious watts to discourage the graffitti spraying Argies getting close.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“enmancipate yourself from mental slavery”... so hard...
Jan 10th, 2015 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Argentina doesn't like the govt of those islands, they can send emigrants to settle there in numbers that would outvote the current occupants. But they've never tried it with any sticktoitiveness. Same goes for the piddly bunber of Brits on Gibralter, which number less than 30,000. The Spanish could send 35,000 to live there and outvote the British population, which already speaks Spanish as their first language, but Spain also won't do it, for the same reason, they really don't care enough to change it peacefully. Does Argentina really think they can just pressure change from the outside without war? Free and fair elections are the way to go. But they seem not to get that, or to try to get it done in that humane manner. Like in Northern Ireland, where within just a few years, the Catholics will outnumber the Protestants, and everything can chnage, Ireland can become united, probably on a timetable that East and West Germany followed. That's how to go about changing a govt, not invade it militarily and just by fiat declare it theirs.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Northern Ireland model is the way to jettison British control of places ridiculously far from home, but which the vast majority of the population prefers. That's how nations of the empire became commonwealth countries, their governments voted for that change peacefully. No commenter on this site can credibly argue against that tactic without freezing immigration or stopping a vote for that change, which is a violation of human rights they could never stop in Northern Ireland as they could not stop it in Scotland.
There you go, Argentina. Get on it.
@10 nativeangelino
Jan 10th, 2015 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Naive idiot troll! Neither Gibraltar nor the Falklands want change nor will Spain or Argentina be permitted to do anything about.
@10
Jan 10th, 2015 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The proportion of people in NI who want a united Ireland now is below 10% according to an opinion poll run annually, and that despite the fact that declared Catholics probably already outnumber declared Protestants. If you ask the question “would you like one in 20 years?” the numbers still only rise to 30%. Therefore convincing people to dissociate themselves from British values, industry, governance, self-deprecation, economic power, science, technology, etc etc requires more than just getting people to go to chapel instead of church.
@10
Jan 10th, 2015 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry but as an Irishman born and bred I can assure you that there is precious little desire in either the Republic or NI for a united Ireland in fact just the opposite. We had a referendum to get the claim to NI removed from the constitution which was passed overwhelmingly.
Also it is remarkably naïve to assume that all NI Catholics (currently less than 40% of the population) are Nationalists.
I also think that the Government here in the RoI would have nothing to do with a united Ireland in as much as no matter how many Catholics voted for unification there would be over a million loyalists who would be most 'unhappy' about it.
@10 An increasing number of people in Northern Ireland now identify themselves as being 'Northern Irish.' You could swamp the Falkland Islands with Argentineans but within a generation or two they would identify themselves as Falkland Islanders and be glad to be disassociated with Argentinean corruption, hyper inflation and inept governance.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2 “I CAN´T WAIT TO HEAR WHAT THE NEIGHBOURS THINK OF THE BUST”
Jan 10th, 2015 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Queer as it may appear, my first reflection was devoted to the Baroness´comfort, and I concluded that she will become twice grateful to her admirers: because of the bust, and specially due to the enormous differences between the Islands´temperatures and those of her present abode. (We must bear in mind that King Henry the Eight, the blessed Founder of the Church of England, suppressed Purgatory of its Creed).
6
Jan 10th, 2015 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A few good points spoilt by some disgraceful inaccuracies and hopelessly biased opinion.
gordo1, which means “fat”, as in your head, YOU are the idiot troll, as well as a jerk.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obviouwly Protestant 13darragh, your pseudo-statistic is INACCURATE, Catholics will outnumber Protestants in the north by 2020. As for what your consitution says, as it was changed to insist there will be no unification, which was done to frestall exactly this development, it can be changed by a different majority to allow it. That's not to say they may not want to unite, they may choose instead to be their own separate nation, which would be their decision. But one thing is MOST certain, they WILL detach from the crown and the UK. The Scots couldn't bring themselves to do it, which was their choice, but the Catholic majority will most certainly see to it.
BritBob, IF Argentinians ever moved in enough numbers to remove the connective tissue with the UK, in particular the military connection, whether they declared themselves their own country or chose to align with Argentina, they most DEFINITELY would expel every trace of the British military alliance, which would have been the very reason thery chose to live on those godforsaken specks in the first place. Even a partisan like you could not deny that.
@17
Jan 10th, 2015 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It doesn't matter whether the Catholics will outnumber the Protestants in the North, what matters is what the majority of people want.
Now, in NI they get free health care, better social services and support. Their employment is also of a higher percentage than the South's and they are also better paid.
Most people DON'T care about much except how they are going to feed their families and prosper so they can buy their kids the latest toy, and where they can go on holiday etc...
The Republic of Ireland couldn't hope to support the Northern Irish, and they certainly couldn't afford to keep them to the same standard of living that they are used to. So there is no INCENTIVE for the Northern Irish to 'unify' with the South.
In fact there have been noises made about the Republic of Ireland rejoining the United Kingdom. Therefore Ireland is reunified, and the UK will pay to increase the standard of living of those in the South up to current UK standards. The UK would also take on all of the Republics debt.
Added to that they would get their own parliament, and basically rule themselves in everything except defence and foreign policy, and the raising of taxes (which would be negotiable.
Your own hatred of the British is clouding your judgement completely, and your rants, added to your obvious ignorance of Ireland (North or South) just makes you look like a deluded fool.
As for Argentinians or Spanish trying to emigrate on mass to either the Falklands or Gibraltar so they can force a 'self-determination' is illegal under international law. So if you did somehow manage to do it, it wouldn't be recognised by the UN, and the 'invaders' would be expelled, just like last time with a British boot up their arses.
17 NativeAngeleno
Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You seem to be supporting the right of Falkland Islanders (whether of British or Argentine origin) to self determination. Am I right?
The thing I'm not really getting from your idea is how you propose to accomplish filling the islands with Argentines, given the strict immigration controls in place. People can move from Argentina to the islands, but they have to have a job and a work permit first. The Argentines who have done it so far seem very happy to be living in a British Overseas Territory.
A really good article in the Buenos Aires Herald entitled “ Vandalism and other problems facing democracy in 2015” by Mempo Giardinelli, really worth a read, says it all really.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ah the commonly ignorance speaking. The Malvinas are a colony, a controled territory which inmigration, investment, or residence of Argentines is certainly impossible. It is not prohibited by law, but it is impossible to get permission. The population status quo is controlled by the colonial government. It is not a matter of luck, or capacity for a people to live there. There are cases of argentines that tried to invest there, there were cases of islanders that died in the continental Argentina, which their descendents could not inheritence their property in the islands, unless those descendents are british and live in the uk, etc. But if you born in britain or its bot, you have %99 of chances to get permission to reside, invest or inherit.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You will not see a chilean resident in the islands get elected in a public office too. But you will see a british born that lived most of his life in Europe being elected. You will not see an argentine flag waving in the islands or in the hands of a turist becouse it is prohibited to wear any sing of argentine simbologies.
Let me be clear about this, there is no freedom in the islands. In a free place, in any free place there is not a referendum with $99,3 results of votes on any question.
What you have in the islands, its a pantomime of the lobby of the differents interests. Politicals and economicals.
About Thatcher, well, congratulation, im sure the chilean there would lobby for a pinochet monument too. So the two amigos would remain inmortals in the islanders hearts as both of them helped each other to “liberate” the islands.
@17
Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This 'obvious Protestant' attended his first communion at St Vincent's ROMAN CATHOLIC Church in Ballyferriter and if I go to church (very rarely I admit) I go to St Mary's in Dingle.
Which church do you attend - St Malvinista the Martyr???
@10. I think we can assume that you don't have a clue. The Falkland Islands Government(FIG) is just going to stand by, is it? In order to be able to vote, don't you have to be a citizen? How does an argie get to be a citizen? The population of the Islands is 2,932. The argie government is going to send 3,000, is it? Do you think the FIG might notice? Much the same applies to Gibraltar. Besides, the spanish are just as dumb as the argies.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately for your proposition, the people of the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar and Northern Ireland have freely and democratically made it clear how they want things to be. And, therefore, that is how things WILL be.
@17. I wonder at your mindset. What exactly is a NativeAngeleno? Where do you get the idea that you have any meaningful knowledge of the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Northern Ireland or Britain? The whole tenor of your comments seems to be anti-British. But our Overseas Territories have shown no indication of wanting to change their status. In fact, to the contrary. Northern Ireland went through the horrendous Troubles to remain British. They could have capitulated to the IRA etc any time. There are some simple objectives. In Northern Ireland, we are waiting for the demise of Gerry Adams. In the Falkland Islands, we are waiting for Kirchner to start her 200 year sentence and then die. And for Gibraltar, sooner or later some sniper will take out Rajoy and Margallo. Adams is now in the frame for ordering murders. Kirchner has so many crimes on her docket. Spain has been a disaster for 75 years. Margallo and Rajoy just make it worse. Much worse. And they are both criminals! A fraudster and a terrorist. Worth following? Or just an invitation to suicide through despair?
Let's not forget what Catholics do to little boys. And just look. Ireland - Catholic. Spain - Catholic. Argieland - Catholic. And bent as well. Because they're latinos!
Considering how rundown, incompetent, corrupt and poor Argentina is; once they have had time to live under the working and stable government and economy of the Falkland Islanders they wouldnt be STUPID enough to vote to return to the slum.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Same goes for Gibraltar. Plenty of Spaniards have emigrated there over the years and have no desire to return to the incompetency and poverty of being ruled by Madrid.
As for Northern Ireland, well shallow understandings of that province are extremely common by people that dislike Britain. Scotland just had a vote and yet I don't see riots in Northern Ireland because they have been denied one.
@17
Jan 10th, 2015 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0..and as for my pseudo-statistics try reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/demographics_of_Northern_Ireland
where you will see that the percentage of Roman Catholics in the population increased by precisely 0.6% between 2001 and 2011 and makes up, as I said, 40.6% of the population.
I would be interested to know where you got your information regarding 2020
@ 25 darragh
Jan 10th, 2015 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He made it up of course.
Back to The Blessed Margaret.
All the lazy bastards who never worked at school and never worked as an adult detested Mrs. Thatcher: they thought she had a silver spoon in her mouth when the reality was her parents owned a small shop!
I don't GAF what these idiots think of her, I just wish Camoron had balls the tenth of the size of hers because he is clearly a eunuch and determined to slide the UK into the mire.
Well done to the FIG on commissioning this lovely bust.
@10
Jan 10th, 2015 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If Argentina doesn't like the govt of those islands, they can send emigrants to settle there in numbers that would outvote the current occupants. ”
As in the past notably 1833 when South American settlers such as Antonina Roxa chose to live under the British flag, they clearly wanted to be part of the Falklands, not part of Britain, not part of Argentina but part of the Falklands. And the Falkland Islanders who are descended from many nationalities have evolved to live there.
Any Argentine moving there would soon find it would be better to be an Islander than an Argentine, so they would integrate as did many Argentine gauchos in the past.
Seriously, if an Argentine could put up with the conditions in the Islands, and move there why would they vote for argentine sovereignty when it would mean a choice between governed by local people or remote, disinterested imperialists, 1000 miles away in Buenos Aires?
I have lived in the Islands, I didn't stay but I got drawn into the Islanders ways very quickly-i.e. I stopped being English, even the accent is different-what Argentina can't get it's head round is the fact that Falkland Islanders do not have the same character traits as those from the UK.
21 Liberato
Jan 10th, 2015 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No. The Falklands is a territory with immigration laws, the same as any other territory has immigration laws. Try and emigrate to the UK or the USA without a job to go to and see how far you get.
Population is not controlled by the 'colonial' government. Immigration policy is set by the government, which is democratically elected by us. The emphasis is on useful skills. Country of origin doesn't enter into it. There is absolutely nothing stopping any Argentine from applying for a job in the Falklands. You could do it. Why don't you?
There is nothing to stop someone from Chile or St Helena from standing for office. I hope they will one day, and soon.
The flying of Argentine flags is not prohibited; ill-bred visitors do it all the time. We manage not to throw rocks at them. They don't get arrested.
Your post is mainly lies then, isn't it? You appear to be the ignorant one.
21 Liberato
Jan 10th, 2015 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ You will not see an argentine flag waving in the islands or in the hands of a turist becouse it is prohibited to wear any sing of argentine simbologies.”
Lib,
Can you show proof that's true?
Mind you, I'm sure the Islanders would find it in very bad taste to fly the Swastika, also.
Perhaps an Islander can answer that?
29 Troy Tempest
Jan 10th, 2015 - 05:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are lots of pictures around the internet of Argentines and their flags taken on the Falklands- haven't got time to look. FB pages of Malvinistas would be the place to look. Personally, I'd rather see a Swastika flying, but only just.
@21. Oh ho, brainwashed stupidity speaking. If you say Malvinas is a colony, I have to accept that. I presume you know something of Cordoba. On the other hand, the FALKLAND ISLANDS is an Overseas Territory. Here's just a simple clue. The Kirchner bitch-cow wanted to set up commercial argie flights between the FALKLAND ISLANDS and the shithole of argieland. She applied to London. She got told to apply to the Falkland Islands Government. Not the way a 'colonial power' acts. If it was a 'colonial power', it would do what it thought was right and tell the Falkland Islands Government to comply. You whinge about the experiences of argies and people who may be acting under duress. I can try to make this clear to you, even all the way from Britain. Argieland is THE enemy. Most other latam countries are also enemies. Enemy nationals don't get any concessions.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Check out the rules about who can be elected to public office. Are you going to elect a Brit with only a British passport to be elected president of argieland? How curious. It's against the law in argieland!
An argie flag? Last waved by argie invaders and occupiers. You won't see many German flags in Britain. You won't see ANY nazi flags. Because anyone waving such a flag would probably get ripped limb from limb.
There's lots of freedom in the Islands. It's for the Islanders. The scum from the continent can do as they are told. Be grateful you're even allowed to go there. I might have a problem if I was there. Rushing back and forth between Mount Pleasant and Port Stanley to shoot at every argie. And, if I missed, I'd be sneaking up behind them with my kukri. You never know where I might be. Feeling lucky?
@26. As a matter of interest, what's it to you? 7000 miles away and you think you should pontificate?
@30. Hey ho. Illegally. Arrest, deport and ban them forever.
One more item to throw away the day Argentina repossesses the Malvinas.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, don't get me wrong. That's way down the road. The country has to do its homework remaining a stable democracy and continue to grow its economy and social inclusion. In time, Argentina will have enough appeal for the islanders and they will vote to join. It just makes sense. Where's the closest large hospital when sick islanders need it? Where is the closest supplier of goods that are not produced locally? Hey, if the islanders were to taste a good asado they would gladly give up on boiled sheep meat!
International pressure and the political situation in both Britain and Argentina need to be the right ones too.
@ 31 Conqueror
Jan 10th, 2015 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My, my, having another fit are you?
I bet my pensions outweigh yours by an order of magnitude AND then there is my property and investments in the UK AND I pay taxes on all of it.
I voted Conservative all my life until that arsehole who has never had a real job was made ‘Leader’ of the party. Check him out and see if you have ANY allegiance at all to his type.
At least Maggie WORKED for her qualifications and the position she rose to in industry in addition to what she did for the country.
So to answer you in language you will understand: STFU! Comprender?
32 Enrique Massot
Jan 10th, 2015 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Punta Arenas, and Chile, to answer both of your questions. And we have lots of Chilean Falkland Islanders to show us how to do an asado. We don't need any help from you.
If there was another question in there, the answer is probably 'when hell freezes over'. Hope that helps.
@16...The bust should have been for Admiral Sir Henry Leach... without his un-invited intervention Thatcher would have rolled over with the appeasers and the Falklands would still be under the RG jackboot....
Jan 10th, 2015 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/29/margaret-thatcher-iron-lady-falklands_n_1174020.html
( the first comment is of interest)
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/29/margaret-thatcher-iron-lady-falklands_n_1174020.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/29/margaret-thatcher-iron-lady-falklands_n_1174020.html
and to make sure there are no suggestions of bias in my links
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2011/12/29/margaret-thatcher-iron-lady-falklands_n_1174020.html
@32 Enrique
Jan 10th, 2015 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina cannot 'repossess' something it has NEVER possessed.
The Falkland Islands are British. They will remain British for as long as the people who live their wish it.
If, and I do say IF, the Falkland Islanders no longer want to be a British Overseas Territory, it's almost certain it will be because they have become an independent nation in their own right.
Argentina has NOTHING to offer the Falkland Islanders except contempt, corruption, and Imperialist Colonial domination.
The British leave the Falkland Islanders alone to sort out their own country, their own laws, their own currency, and only assist in Foreign Policy and Defence matters.
In all but name they are an independent nation.
Just what can Argentina offer that is better than that? A run down, underfunded, sh!thole of a hospital (when they can get better treatment in either Uruguay or Chile). Rife corruption at every level of local and national government? A pseudo democracy where children are left to starve to death because they're not white? A police force that is so corrupt that they are more dangerous than the criminals? Strict government controls on how much foreign currency they are allowed to buy? And a government that has stifled, and continues to stifle, the free press?
Who would any sane person wish to be associated with, a country 106th on the global corruption index (Argentina) or a country 14th on the global corruption index (UK)?
Don't strain your brain trying to work it out.
10'@
Jan 10th, 2015 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0does this mean, we brits can send say 47.3 million over to Argentina,
then legacy out vote you all, re-name the country and break it up into 4 or 5 region's,
bet you don't agree with that.
its all one sided with the brainwashers, your way or no way,
well,
no way seems to be the correct one then..
It would not have made any difference as to who was the prime minister at the time because while most British Political parties are constantly having a go at each other the one thing they all have in common is their belief in the right to self-determination.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It just happened to be the watch of Baroness Thatcher and Argentina at that time was facing a huge internal problem and needed a diversion. With a Woman Prime Minister they thought it would be a walk over but as we all know Margaret Thatcher was as strong as any man in her job and had a solid determination that a Dictator would never be allowed to bully a defenceless Country and did what any decent person would have done.
We the Falkland Islanders will be forever grateful to not only Mrs Thatcher but to every single man and woman who served in the British Armed Forces who were prepared to and did give their lives to free us from a Brutal Dictator.
So remember while we celebrate the memories of Margaret Thatcher who happened to be in the right place at the right time she is just but the symbol of what the British people stood for and that was our Freedom.
It does not matter what cynical Argentine believes we are a people with rights and we were given the right to choose our own destiny . We did not start the war and the rape of our land Argentina did that and now has to live with the facts they were beaten and kicked off the Islands and they can’t accept this fact.
Agreed.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 06 Justthefacts
Jan 10th, 2015 - 09:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Venerate Thatcher if you absolutely must for regaining the islands, but never forget who lost them in the first place!”
Absolutely!! If there ever was a politicians war, then the Falklands War was it. Both governments, unpopular with the people, both wanting, NEEDING, to unite the country behind them . It should never have happened. The Foreign Office really did drop the ball on this one, they were stupid and didn't want to believe the signals that were coming from BA until it was too late.
It should never have happened. If you look at it in that light, the ONLY difference between Mrs Thatch and the Junta was that Mrs Thatch was on the winning side.
38 kelperabout
“It does not matter what cynical Argentine believes we are a people with rights and we were given the right to choose our own destiny.”
Well said!!
The good thing to come out of the Falklands War was that, any politician that thinks they can sell you down the road, would be roundly condemned by parliament and the country as a whole, followed very quickly by being chased over Westminster bridge and pelted with eggs.
40 Too Old
Jan 10th, 2015 - 09:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Happy New Year!
Well, I just got back from the unveiling. It all went well, had a couple of beers in the Town Hall and a nice chat with Mark Thatcher afterwards. Mark told me how terribly pleased he was with the likeness with his mother. The only question now is how long will it take for some deadbeat to deface it. The LAN flight from Argentina was delayed this afternoon so anyone planning on making a nuisance of themselves at the ceremony missed out because they didn't get into town in time.
@32 Enrique Mascot
Jan 10th, 2015 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are right on (just) one point. I'm sure that the Islanders would very much prefer to have a regular, scheduled air link to the closest major city (capital) on the continent. It just so happens that that particular city would be Montevideo; which of course is closer to Stanley than Buenos Aires.
“It should never have happened. If you look at it in that light, the ONLY difference between Mrs Thatch and the Junta was that Mrs Thatch was on the winning side.”
Jan 10th, 2015 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's a bit strong, in my view. It was certainly incompetence that allowed the war to happen in the first place, but once it did there was no doubt as to who was on the right side and who on the wrong.
41 Jo Bloggs
Jan 10th, 2015 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Happy New Year to you and yours as well my friend.
I hope the Bloggs household had a great Christmas and New Year ( for some reason it feels an age away now )
I am glad to hear that the ceremony went off without a hitch and that the bust meets with the approval of her son.........
“The only question now is how long will it take for some deadbeat to deface it”
Ah, there you have me.
I will always remember the line from “Secret Diary of Adrian Mole” when the headmaster got up in front of the whole school and went absolutely mad because someone had broken into his office and drawn a beard on his portrait of Mrs Thatcher and written “3 million unemployed” across her chest...........
Yes she did liberate the Falklands and yes she did do some good things during her time but I will ( mostly ) remember her as:-
“Thatcher, Thatcher, the milk snatcher!!”
44
Jan 10th, 2015 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well said. Margaret Thatcher was the nastiest head of state I have ever seen, exception made of Jorge Rafael Videla of course.
Enrique - the nearest well equipped large hospitals with modern equipment and technology that WORKS and is not hamstrung by wrangling over currency when it wants spare parts are in - Chile.
Jan 10th, 2015 - 11:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Simple reality.
Asado - we have them in summer, plenty here know how to make one.
@45
Jan 10th, 2015 - 11:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maggie got rid of the power of the unions in the UK, look at the state of Argentina and the power of the unions. Nuff said
@45
Jan 11th, 2015 - 12:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wouldn't expect anything less from a Spaniard. Mrs Thatcher wasn't the first English woman to batter the Spanish in war, in fact our women are very effective in dealing with cowardly latino's.
Quote: Queen Elizabeth 1 (after she sank the armada)
“My loving people, we have been persuaded by some that are careful of our safety, to take heed how we commit ourself to armed multitudes for fear of treachery; but I assure you, I do not desire to live to distrust my faithful and loving people ... I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a King of England too, and think foul scorn that Parma or Spain, or any Prince of Europe should dare to invade the borders of my realm”
Mrs Thatcher was the embodiment of every strong English woman in history and just as effective at dealing with cowardly Spaniards.
Quote: Mrs Thatcher (after she sank the Belgrano)
“the job of the Prime Minister is to protect the lives of our boys, on our ships, and that's what I did”
Magnificent woman
“the job of the Prime Minister is to protect the lives of our boys, on our ships, and that's what I did”
Jan 11th, 2015 - 12:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually, it's what the captain and crew of HMS Conqueror did, at considerable risk to themselves from depth charge equipped escorts, not Thatcher, who was safe in Chequers and did not do anything except give an order that should by rights have already been within the power of the British military commanders to issue.
#38: Kelperabout, you are the classic indoctrinated fool that believes all your governments tells you. The british, and specially Margaret Thatcher, supported dictatorships all the time. She even supported our dictatorship, or where do you think our bombs came from?, Where do you think the brazilian learned how to torture? where do you think Pinochet got its weapons?, its airplanes?. Who supported Pinochet while he took the power by force in Chile?. Who supported Pinochet when he was about to be extradited to Spain?. Who was the ally that Thatcher praised for its help in the war?. who was the man that Thatcher said that without him could not have won the war?. Why Thatcher's conservative party was called the “the party of Pinochet”?.
Jan 11th, 2015 - 01:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, a brutal dictator kelperabout. So every year you conmemorate Thatcher, you will conmemorate Pinochet too. You will conmemorate Videla. You will conmemorate Gadhafi, etc. But specially Pinochet, who was praised by Thatcher as the most invaluable help to “liberate” the islands.
Never the less, i know your governants are scum but not stupid and will not make a monument to Pinochet for what he represent. But you saying she was a defender of freedom against a brutal dictatorship????. come on!!!! We argentines could say that becouse we suffered it, You, instead, belongs to a nation that supported them. So you are offending your allies.
Did you know that Mark Thatcher organized a plot to take by force an african nation?. Is that democracy? is that freedom?. Do you think the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a war of liberation?.
#28: Dont say bullshit. It is publicly known that a Di Tella's friend tried to buy land there on many occasions. There were many privates argentine attemps to buy land there or invest there or reside there, with the british government reffusing to accept it. But it is known too that british from Europe have not that problem at all. They dont even have to reside in the islands to buy land.
@45 Enrique
Jan 11th, 2015 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Margaret Thatcher was the nastiest head of state I have ever seen, exception made of Jorge Rafael Videla of course”
Rather silly statement.
a) Margaret was never a head of state (that's Betty's territory).
b) Truth be told, Argentina should have bronze busts of Thatcher all over the countryside, in eternal gratitude for ridding you of Videla/Voila's ugly consequence, Galtieri. The Falklands was a small price to pay for democracy; otherwise they could well still be offering one way helicopter rides.
And please don't spout the crystal ball line about the junta being on the way out regardless. Since the military launched its first coup ever in 1930, only one freely elected government has completed its term, up until the Falklands war (and that one was lead by Juan Peron, so how did that work out?). Ever since the Falklands, the elections have been (relatively) democratic (if not mind-boggling).
Coincidence? I think not!
Every Argentinean citizen who cherishes their freedom is indebted to her.
God bless Maggie.
Derke
all this noise because an unemployed local “artist” made the bust of an old witch and the chief guest was her delinquent son?
Jan 11th, 2015 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0it seems the old bitch was very appreciated by squatters, parasites and english wannabes in general, but not so much in her own country, no?
Hundreds of Scots mark Margaret Thatcher's death in Glasgow's George Square
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-celebrate-margaret-thatchers-death-1819505
Banners, chants and even a conga: Liverpool fans dance on the grave of Baroness Thatcher at Reading as Hillsborough victims are remembered
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-celebrate-margaret-thatchers-death-1819505
Former miners turn out to celebrate the death of Margaret Thatcher
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-celebrate-margaret-thatchers-death-1819505
@51 Derke
Jan 11th, 2015 - 04:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Pablo CabanaBoy wants to demonise Maggie Thatcher.
Ironic that if “Aryentina” had not invaded the British Falkland Islands, Maggie would not now be remembered with respect and affection by the Falklanders and British, alike !
She had a chance to show her mettle and embodied British Resolve.
The Argentinians looked like fools to the rest of the world!!
I love that Argentineans hate Thatcher..... it's like a national psychological wound that refuses to heal.
Jan 11th, 2015 - 05:23 am - Link - Report abuse 033 years later her power still looms large over Argentina.
It's like the gift that keeps on giving.
@50 All your military assholes were a product of your own culture. I'm sure it's very comfortable for you to pretend they were imposed from outside by the nasty gringos, but the unfortunate fact is they were home grown in virtually every territory of the Spanish and Portuguese empires, and in the home countries themselves. The gringos are not strong enough to create such a culture from scratch, though some of them may have been asshole enough to support it.
Jan 11th, 2015 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina's attitude to the Falklands, in particular your flagrant contempt for law, democracy, and the rights of the islanders shows that this culture is alive and well.
Pinochet, was also an asshole but unfortunately, when you're forced to fight a fascist military dictatorship with a supply line 8,000 miles long, you take your friends where you can find them. If your own dictatorship hadn't been so rabid as to be planning an attack on Chile, it might well have been different. It's simply further evidence that the main reason the Falklands aren't Argentine, is that Argentina has done everything imaginable to ensure that they never will be.
Mark Thatcher is an asshole, but try to be consistent. Obiango is a bigger asshole than Pinochet or Galtieiri ever were. But I'm sure he'll be glad of your support.
@ 53 Troy Tempest
Jan 11th, 2015 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I would just like to add two words to your otherwise excellent post:
The Argentinians looked like COWARDS AND fools to the rest of the world!!
50 Liberato
Jan 11th, 2015 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Di Tella's friend couldn't buy land in the Falklands because no-one would sell it to him. And why do you think that is?
Your assertion that only British people can buy land is nonsense. The properties that have been sold to overseas buyers are no more than a handful; one buyer is french and another is Greek.
Fairly recently, the law governing the sale of property has been tightened up; overseas buyers have to have a permit from Exco. It has nothing whatever to do with the British Government.
I have a question for you; why do you think that Falkland Islanders would have any wish to sell land to Argentines? I wouldn't want to do it myself, and I wouldn't want my elected representatives to allow it. The reason for that is purely your ongoing sovereignty claim.
You have some very odd ideas.
50 Liberato (#)
Jan 11th, 2015 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You will obviously say all these things to protect your argument that we should not be here.
But you forget also that you are jumping into bed with many nasty’s of the world.
Remember who also supplied your jet fighters . France and then there is Castro, Russia now trying to sell you more jets . I could go on and on but the point being that it makes no difference who helped who around the world in our History the fact is that Argentina invaded my home without any provocation at all from us except for the fact of who we are and that does not justify anyone invading us. I have also already stated that it could have been any British Prime Minister that came to our rescue and if they had your argument would have been just the same. Fact is Argentina was and looks like still is run by a dictator.
If you had any education you would be learning from History that two wrongs do not make a right. You have been wrong on several occasions in your History yet you are still shouting the odds against us. We know our History and yours for that matter and what we know about your past we do not want to be a part of. 40,000 disappeared , removal of an indigenous people to get the country you have today. Stealing land from your neighbour Chile and trying to steal my home as well.
So given those Historical facts you and your polluted friends can dream on. Talk the Talk , spit the dummy out do whatever you want. Fact is we have made our choice and it is not Argentine . Grow up or shut up you idiot.
@ 17.
Jan 11th, 2015 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyway I think that sectarianism is a root cause for violence pretty much anywhere. NI is no exception and is possibly the one main difference between England and Norther Irland. To the English sectarianism is anathema . Yes we have different religions and different branches of the same religion but to the English religion is a very personal thing.
Religion is like a penis. It's all very well and good and those who have one have every reason to be happy about it. But if you take it out and wave it around then we have a problem. And sectarianism is something that Ireland both North and South are determined to put behind them. It's the only way.
And to be clear. I am a Protestant. By birth. Otherwise it means nothing to me because I abhor religion. To me it is all mumbo jumbo woo woo sky faeries. Superstitious bullshit that still gets people killed all too often. My wife is Protestant too which by default makes my children Protestant. But they attend a Catholic school. Nobody notices and nobody cares.
Paulcedron- yet again like a true Argentinian you open your mouth and insert both feet and hands together.
Jan 11th, 2015 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the few 100s that demonstrated at her death were so more important and relevant that the 1000s who lined the streets of London and who watched it on TV?
Tell us please - her Conservative Govt was followed by 13 years of LABOUR Govt.
WHY is those 13 years were NONE of her labour and Union Laws repealed of changed if they were all so bad?
Tell us- Why not?
I will tell you - simple - because the incoming Labour Govt in 1997 knew they had been the right thing for the whole country in then - however painful it was at the time.
Liberato- you chant the same tripe as so many of your Leaders. If you want o buy Land in the islands- DNA test the graves- Open Airlinks- Open discussions on regional offshore Environmental protection etc etc -
Very Very Simple - You need to communicate with and seek those discussions with the one and ONLY - relevant Authority who currently is controlling the one you don't - The Falkland Islands Govt.
The British Govt Foreign Office has made that abundantly clear time and time again.
@33. 'My, my, having another fit are you?' Similar to yours. Have you READ some of your comments recently?
Jan 11th, 2015 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ooh, look at you. “I'm wealthy and I can do and say what I want”! On the other hand, I spent over 40 years serving my country on an inadequate salary. You seem to run away. I've got property and investments in the UK and I pay tax on all of it as well. The difference is that I stay with my country and, unfortunately, suffer with it.
Not being stupid, when I voted, I voted for the candidate that seemed to offer the best for my country. I don't think you really understand what happens in government or government service. There are many factors. In the current UK government, those factors now include wankers like Clegg, Cable, Davey and Alexander.
What was that word after STFU? Did you miss that rule that says all comments must be in English? Gone native, have you? Wugga, wugga in bongo bongo land, eh?
Incidentally, since you're being so courteous and polite; ESFOAD, FUBYOYO, GAFL and FUJIMO.
@38. WE will never forget. WE don't forget what and who you lost, or what you suffered. In a few years, the Royal Navy's new aircraft carriers will be available for deployment. Expect to see them. The word, at present, is that both carriers will be operational. You might hope to see a real UK Strike Fleet. Frightening your 'neighbours' out of their skins. Can you imagine your 'neighbours' having to watch an RN force of 2 aircraft carriers, 4 Type 45 destroyers, 4 Type 26 frigates, 4 nuclear-powered hunter-killer (sorry, fleet) submarines, together with a full complement of tankers and supply ships, sailing down their coastline.
@41. What a pity you allow argies into YOUR Islands.
@45. What a pity that you don't do history or the news. Have you considered Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Kim Jong, Mao, Kruschev, Roca, Amin, Hussein, Gaddafi, Kirchner N, Kirchner C, Galtieri?
@50. Gabble, gabble, gabble!
@52. What are you on? Don't quote what the scotch do.
#55: As stupid as you are, i imagine you can read and investigate. Do you think that the last coup d'etat in Venezuela could have taken place without the US support that were the first in recognize them as a legitimate government?. Do you think that most of dictatorship casually were students of the school of americas, a US institution that teached torture methods to combat guerrilla?. Do you think that it was a fashion for Latin Americans to have a dictature as a government?. Do you think Kissinger is falsely accused of organizing the coup in Chile? do you think the US is falsely accused of savotage the Allende's government economy to create the conditions to a coup?.
Jan 11th, 2015 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You should investigate the history of those latin america dictature, and why those dictatures were inmediatly recognized as legitimate governments by your governments
You should investigate too, How can a dictature take place? Mark Thatcher financed and organized a coup in an Ecuatorial Guinea. The idea was to create and arm a military force that were due to be presented publicky as a rebel force in the country to depous the dictator Obiang. So do you think that Mark Thatcher and the british government were trying to create a democracy or to change a dictatorship for “their” dictatorship?.
Or you are too ignorant or too stupid. Perhaps you trully believe the uk invaded Iraq really thinking they had weapons of mass destruction to finally recognize they made a mistake. Well anybody make a mistake right?. Even if it caused millons of dead.
#57: Monty, you are showing your true nature. We dont responsibilize the british people for the war, The british can come here, buy land, reside here, They actually do. The anglo-northamerican Joe Lewes have a huge land in Patagonia and many more british can do the same. The same for argentines in britain. If you are going to blame that situation to the sovereignty dispute, its something that is not a claim we invented recently. The sovereignty dispute existed always.
“Sir Terrorist Mark Thatcher, son of Margaret Thatcher has been specially invited”
Jan 11th, 2015 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bloody hell! They forgot to invite Prince Molester Andrew to the party, not fair.
62 Liberato
Jan 11th, 2015 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's because the British aren't responsible for the war and they aren't trying to buy up Argentina with a view to dispossessing the Argentines of their country.
We hold you responsible for the war, because you are responsible.
We also hold you responsible for trying to take our home, because that's what you want to do.
Argentines who want to move to the Falklands, get a job, and become citizens of a British Overseas Territory are welcome, and some do.
Argentines (or non-Argentines) who want to buy up 'huge lands' without adding to the economy or society are not welcome.
I'm failing to see what part of this you find either surprising or wrong.
@ 61 Conqueror
Jan 11th, 2015 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Call it running away if you like as you seem to have missed the several posts where I explain that the reason we moved was for the health of my wife and it has worked very well indeed.
It should have been Australia and would have been Australia if The Cunt Brown © Jeremy Clarkson 2010 hadn’t managed to halve my property portfolio value and other things.
And don’t forget WHY I am wealthy: I started from a very poor family and by hard work and a little luck I managed to be able to retire in a lovely country (except for the pollies, just like the UK) so what’s your excuse?
“I don't think you really understand what happens in government or government service. There are many factors. In the current UK government, those factors now include wankers like Clegg, Cable, Davey and Alexander”.
Oh, I think I do, they also include ‘civil servants’ [what an oxymoron], bitter people like you who seem to think we should all pay extra for your inflation proofed pension when you were paid for the work you did anyway.
You could always have tried it in the real world like I did, but you didn’t, did you? Just why was that?
“Gone native, have you? Wugga, wugga in bongo bongo land, eh?”
That suggests Africa to me, Uruguay is in South America but unfortunately they speak Gibber-jabber here: it’s like Spanish but more ‘earthy’ and even more incomprehensible, bit I am getting there.
@65. Let's leave aside your apologist paragraphs and go to this one.
Jan 11th, 2015 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0'Oh, I think I do, they also include ‘civil servants’ [what an oxymoron], bitter people like you who seem to think we should all pay extra for your inflation proofed pension when you were paid for the work you did anyway'.
'Oxymoron' eh? Who do you think the Civil Service and Civil Servants work for? For you? For 'the public'? For 'taxpayers'? It's none of these. Here is a short list of organisations that work for the same person. Her Majesty's Diplomatic Service. Her Majesty's Home Civil Service, the British Army, the Royal Air Force and the Royal Navy. They work for the Head of State, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. The role of the Home Civil Service is to administer, including enforcing, relevant laws in the UK. A Civil Servant serves Her Majesty in a civilian role. Although some are uniformed. Don't expect a Civil Servant to 'serve' you or, where appropriate, to be 'civil'. Be polite and courteous and you'll get courtesy in return. Get stroppy and you'll be surprised at what powers some Civil Servants have. Don't tell a Civil Servant that you pay his/her wages. You don't. You are required to pay taxes to pay for government business. That includes the Home Civil Service. Doubts? Try barging your way past an armed British soldier with orders to deny passage. Certain Civil Servants can do something similar. You could find yourself under arrest, possibly using force, sitting in a small room wearing a pair of steel bracelets. 'Obstruction', that includes failing to comply, is a serious matter.
What's your 'real world'? How many commercial operations do you think Civil Servants know all about? The oil industry, meat industry, farming, milk products, tobacco, spirits, beer, betting, gaming, everything on which duty or VAT is chargeable, shipping, international relations. Been there. Get it? You may know about a little microcosm.
Oh, and I referred to backward countries and the backward people.
@ 66 Conqueror
Jan 11th, 2015 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am sure you must have missed something or somebody out! It’s no wonder the pensioners are losing tax allowances if that entire bunch are on the tit.
BTW civil servants DON’T pay their taxes because they DON’T earn any money in the real world. And as for knowing anything you claim in the list, what about the balls ups at DEFRA, the income tax foul-ups at HMR&C, the computer cock-ups over the years due to civil servants changing system specifications after they were “fixed” because they didn’t understand WTF was going on in the first place?
Why should taxpayers in the real world keep having to dig in their pockets when, if they made a fraction of the balls ups civil servants made, they would be out of a job?
When was the last time any number of civil servants were fired for incompetence without being offered a new position in another part of this captive jobs for votes system that you are so keen to defend?
Don’t give me the old guff about the police (if only they were worth their money) the NHS (needs privatizing) and all the other hangers on you usually trot out.
But you know that don’t you, you just can’t stand it when somebody who does understand what’s going on calls you out on it, can you?
Also I bet the armed services don’t think of themselves as civil servants, I certainly DON’T see it that way either: they head up to HM The Queen and like her are worth every penny.
If only ‘civil’ servants were.
43 HansNiesund
Jan 11th, 2015 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“That's a bit strong, in my view. It was certainly incompetence that allowed the war to happen in the first place”
You know what? you're right. I was being a bit harsh. Now I come to think about it, Mrs Thatch's un-official slogan was :- We shall not be bullied.
The 1980 Iranian embassy siege was testament to that AND so was the Falklands war ( even though, as you say, the FI did drop a b*llock allowing it to happen in the first place ).
A quick ( pointless ) quiz for you all. Who first came up with the idea of sending troops out to the gulf in response to the invasion of Kuwait?
The whole response ( and I mean ALL of it ) was as a DIRECT result of a meeting at the G7 between the then President Bush and Mrs Thatch. As I understand it, they were taking a break for lunch and the Pres turned to M Thatch and said something along the lines of :- “Get that situation in the gulf, how do you think we should handle it?”
Mrs Thatch then said those immortal words “This situation should not be allowed to stand”
The rest, as they say, is history........ Like I said, yes she did do some good things during her time in office.
@62
Jan 11th, 2015 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you really believe that the catholic/military/reactionary dictatorships that held sway for decades in virtually every single Spanish or Portuguese speaking country, including Spain and Portugal themselves, were imposed on an unwilling, freedom loving, democratic, tolerant political culture by the nasty gringos?
Seriously, you will never develop mature, stable governance until you grow up, learn to admit your faults, and abandon your cult of victimhood. The sure sign this has happened will be when you abandon your archaic and unfounded claim to the Falkland Islands. At that point, you might even be able to acquire them.
Far be it from me to defend C. BUT the general ignorance propagated by the press on the subject of Civil Service pensions needs clarification.When I joined the Civil Service in 1961 I was on a salary scale that took 18 years to get to the top.
Jan 11th, 2015 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The salary levels were decided by an independent committee who did job evaluations with outside industry and businesses - supposedly to take it out of the political arena. Pension contributions were calculated and taken OFF the salary before payment. This gave the impression that the pensions were free.
Many in the press and in Parliament - Conservatives - started an outcry about free pensions given to Civil Servants. This was looked into by a committee who came to the embarrassing conclusion that it would cost MORE if we paid directly for them. Pensions were paid on the final salary of a Civil Servant.
This would have meant that the original calculated pension contributions taken BEFORE payment of salary would have to be added to the salary and then deducted as a contribution from salary. Although having a greater salary the net figure of monthly payment would be the same. However, the pension amount would be calculated on this salary figure before the contributions were deducted meaning a larger pension.
Guess what, the clamour was quietly dropped with no explanation.
The next thing was performance pay and “bonuses”. This meant that the salary figure was lowered and a performance bonus would be paid. Again, guess what, this lowered the pension figure as bonuses/performance pay are not part of salary.
I retired in 1999 and my final salary including performance/bonuses was less than 50% of its equivalent and less than 60% for pensions than there equivalent in 19.
That's how feather bedded we were .
You were lucky you had money to invest. It always amazes me that people outside Public service seem to think that they are the only ones who work hard.
My experience has been that many of them get paid for doing nothing.
#64: Nobody said we want to take your home. The islander's interests are paramount. Your property and interests will be saved. The same like when your nation invaded in 1833, the invasion you claim the inhabitants were not expelled?, well its the same change of hands, with the difference that we will take care of your interests. We will not make a colony of it like your nation did and do.
Jan 11th, 2015 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And its not that you woke up one morning and discovered that Argentina claimed the sovereignty of the islands So get used to it, or tell your government to sit down to the negotiation table and find a legal and diplomatic way to end this dispute.
#69, Im not playing the victim here. We were not culturally developed as a society to resist a coup d'etat, but its not that we choosed to be ruled by a dictature either. In societies that faces epic crisis, institutional, economical and political, or military. A dictature can become tolerable in extremes situations. Those situations, in many many ocasions, were deliberatelly created by the US or the uk. The conspiracy of Mark Thatcher is a clear example where it was known becouse they were stupid enough but how many dictatures could have succeded at the expenses of the british taxpayers?. Hussein? Bin Laden?. What if MArk Thatcher succeded in changing the regime in Ecuatorial Guinea?. Do you think he organized that plot to “liberate” or democratize Ecuatorial Guinea? or do you think that publicly the uk will critizes the new dictatorship while sucking up their natural resources?.
The best example ever: Mark Thatcher plot to create a coup d'etat in Africa. Dont see you denying his involvement.
UK Bolsters Falkland Defenses to Counter Argentine Air Ambitions
Jan 12th, 2015 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/international/americas/2015/01/11/uk-falklands-leapp-air-defense-argentinia/21497721/
So what have the stupid Argies achieved, Nothing,
We will now renew and upgrade, replenish and re-enforce the Falklands,
And now they will just waste more money and look even more desperate in the eyes of there so called friends,
.Argentina is fast becoming a Nothing in South America,
71 Liberato
Jan 12th, 2015 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Nobody said we want to take your home. The islander's interests are paramount. Your property and interests will be saved. ”
Umm, your government officially declares the Falklsnds to be part of “Aryentina” (Pablo Cedron) and the Islaners are “ illegal squatters”.
Also, “we are not interested in the illegal population, we want our territory... ”
Timerman stated publicly that the “interests” of the Islanders would be taken into account, but “not their wishes”.
Wasn't it you yourself who said Aryentinians should be allowed to move and to the Islands and buy property there, outnumbering and overwhelming the current small population, so they no longer held dominance - ie. losing control of their community, culture, livelihood, and current self-determination??
In other words, exactly the opposite to what you have just said.
“The same like when your nation invaded in 1833, the invasion you claim the inhabitants were not expelled?”
No parallel exists.
Your government tried putting forward that fiction of “expulsion” officially, on int'l forums, but have now quietly backed away - please try to keep up.
The only people that left in 1833 were the mutinous, criminal UP crew that murdered their own Commander and raped his wife in front of her children. They had been there no more than 10 weeks.
They were arrested and transported home by your own authorities, and tried in the UP for their crimes.
There had been numerous British establishments on the Islands over the previous 100 years.
Multi-national settlers willingly chose to stay on the islands under British authority, even though they had the option to leave.
Your “hero” RIVERO murdered many of those settlers, several months later.
The only “Argentine History” on the Islands seems to be 2 events of bloodshed and Argentine oppression, 150 years apart.
That's the only historical parallel that I can see.
Need a bit of proof of our entitlement to our homeland the Falkland islands you Argentine dummy spitters take a look
Jan 12th, 2015 - 01:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.facebook.com/groups/community.board/permalink/688023431314158/ Where was Argentina when this was signed. Oh forgot you did not exist.
65
Jan 12th, 2015 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0So.....would you care to explain how Brown could half the value of a property portfolio....?
I have a property portfolio and I'm am struggling to understand how it can possibly lose value...unless I paid too much or borrowed too much for the properties...which I didn't....
It's certainly a new one that you have property in the UK as far as I remember all you had were pensions....
...are you telling porkies....?
.
.
What a crap piece of shit sculpture that is.....
Have you looked closely at the profile view.....reminds me of the Spitting Image puppet of Thatcher....look at the distance from the bridge of the nose to the eye....
...frigging amateur.....
40k.....HTF did it cost that much....
I'd have sculpted a better one for 2k.....
Don't give up your day job mate....
Love all the back-biting BTW.....
Been following with interest......loving everyone at each others throats.....
...and CD's fall from grace.....funny....took you a whole year to see through him.....
70
Survived the Storm Clyde....?
Those winds were something else......I got a lot of damage.....lost a couple of trees too......
#73:quote: ”Umm, your government officially declares the Falklsnds to be part of “Aryentina” (Pablo Cedron) and the Islaners are “ illegal squatters”.“
Jan 12th, 2015 - 04:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0No. The official position of Argentina is that the islands belong to us, and are being held against our will by a foreign power. About the islanders status: All those who were born there can apply for argentine citizenship, due to the fact they have born in argentine territory.
quote2:”Timerman stated publicly that the “interests” of the Islanders would be taken into account, but “not their wishes”.“
Exactly.
quote3:”Wasn't it you yourself who said Aryentinians should be allowed to move and to the Islands and buy property there, outnumbering and overwhelming the current small population, so they no longer held dominance ”
No, i wasnt. It is the british who say we are not alowed to reside there becouse we want to outnumbering or overwhelming the population. So check your fact. You are trying to put your propaganda in my mouth.
There is a parallel between the british invasion of 1833 and now. We've been claiming that britain expelled the population in 1833, while some of you claim it was only a change of administration, that the population were alowed to stay. Well, now we are saying the same as your people, that we will not expell the inhabitants, we will only change the government. But monty here, claimed in comment #64 that we want to take his home, while its not at all what Argentina is saying. Argentina has compromised to the UN and to its own constitution to respect the insterest of the population and to respect international law.
So you british are like a child that crying about everything but not willing to end the dispute.
#74: i cant take a look to a link of a group of facebook that is private.
75
Jan 12th, 2015 - 04:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0“....would you care to explain how Brown could half the value of a property portfolio”
“...are you telling porkies....?”
“What a crap piece of shit sculpture that is..... ”
“Don't give up your day job mate.... ”
“Love all the back-biting BTW.....”
“.funny....took you a whole year to see through him.....”
“Survived the Storm Clyde....?”
What a ray of sunshine you are, you sad old git.
Missed you so much.
Yuck who would trade British citizenship for Argentinean citizenship?
Jan 12th, 2015 - 06:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0A fucking idiot!
Marc Bolland head cheese at M&S for 5 years has spent (wasted) 2.5 billion squids of shareholder cash. Despite this enormous expenditure Profits have declined massively and he is still in post. No doubt he will be expecting a huge undeserved pay off like so many others. As an M&S shareholder it is clear there are useless monkeys in both the private and public sector.
Jan 12th, 2015 - 09:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Skip
Jan 12th, 2015 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0+1
@ 75 Voice of an idiot (or is it The Lunatic?)
Jan 12th, 2015 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“So.....would you care to explain how Brown could half the value of a property portfolio....?”
Lunatic questioned that, being the idiot that he is.
I had thought that you had half-a-brain, clearly, as you have demonstrated here, you don’t even have that.
So, Brainless, consider what happened. For many years I had a small number of upmarket properties: remember that means they were worth more than a few argie arsewipes, AND they began to climb as the bubble took off (nobody knew at that point it was a bubble). I am sure even you can work it out from here.
Couple that with all the tax attacks and the lack of confidence that and the actual state of the housing market JUST at the time we had bought our casa in Uruguay and we needed to liquidate our position. The best EVER investment I made was in gold, but understanding that when you couldn’t work out the bubble / crash situation is clearly beyond you.
The effect of The Cunt Brown © Jeremy Clarkson 2010, laughingly called @The Saviour of the World by some of his shit-faced Labour MPs, was disastrous.
Got it now Brainless?
I leave telling porkies to the likes of you, I don’t tell them myself.
What a garrulous fuckwit you are.
76 Liberato
Jan 12th, 2015 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are completely misunderstanding me.
If you were to replace our elected government and replace it with an Argentine one against our will, that would be a hostile act of colonisation, completely against our interests, and one that we would appeal to the UN against for evermore.
I can see that you think you are being very generous to us in not seeking to kick us out. However, this arrogant, presumptuous and illegal stance is of no interest to me as it has no parallel or place in the modern world. I don't care what it says in your constitution; I'm only interested in what it says in mine (and in the UN's charter), which is that we have the right to determine or own path without being bullied by you.
I don't care what your official stance is either, as articulated by one of your third rate politicians. I didn't vote for him. He (and you) appear to be formulating your stance and opinions to deliberately insult and provoke Islanders. It's all deeply offensive and you know it. Personally I'm not particularly bothered, but it doesn't seem to be a very good way to resolve a conflict. You seem to forget that you are the ones who want something. It would become you to learn some better manners and some humility.
I was merely pointing out that you can't expect us to help you out by selling you bits of the islands.
#75
Jan 12th, 2015 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0The winds did little or no damage this far down the coast. A few wheelie bins went walk - about and some branches came off the trees in the area but nothing serious.
I will be attending the member's Benmore walk in February and will see what damage was done there. I may even use the restaurant if I want a coffee however, lunch is supplied in the courtyard gallery. This is provisional on Western Ferries being operational or the “Rest” not being closed due to landslips.
#82: Quote: “If you were to replace our elected government and replace it with an Argentine one against our will, that would be a hostile act of colonisation”
Jan 12th, 2015 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That, is exactly what you british did in 1833. But Argentina will not change your way of life nor they will impose a colonial governor as the uk does. You will have the same freedom to vote your representatives as any other argentine province.
But it is not a generosity on my part, nor it means you have to choose. You leave on a disputed land. You live on a colony taken aways from us. You live in a colony where the britishness of that population is artificially mantained. You may never give back the islands to Argentina, but you will never cease to live in a disputed land.
I think you've lost the plot; the people expelled in 1833 weren't elected by anyone. They were a military garrison who shouldn't have been there. The inhabitants chose to stay and live under British rule.
Jan 12th, 2015 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The point is, we have the form of government that we choose. And if that includes a governor as the representative of the crown, then that's fine by us. We knew that when we chose to remain a British Overseas Territory. We don't choose to be an Argentine province.
The whole 'artificially maintained Britishness' thing is complete bullshit. Most of the new immigrants in recent years have been Chilean.
The disputed land bit is a pretty weak description as well. You need two sides to a dispute; I view your 'claim' as something more akin to a toddler having a tantrum over a tube of Smarties in the supermarket, or maybe something like a mosquito. Irritating, and undeniably there, but not worth arguing with.
@67. Poor idiot. It's so easy to demonstrate how little you understand. Let's take whatever it is you think you do. Do you get paid? One way or another, of course you do. Where does the money come from? It comes from the labour of others, the 'customers'. Do you question every 'customer' about where their money comes from? So the money you take for what you sell could come from, what, a robbery, a murder, a fraud, a drug deal? Which of those EARN money in your real world? But YOU don't care, do you? The money goes in your pocket. Then you spend it for your 'property' and 'investments'. Wonder how much of your money is bent?
Jan 12th, 2015 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't mention the police. They aren't civil servants. They are public servants. There's a difference. Same goes for the NHS. Blooey to another couple of your lies. Because you daren't just admit that you're WRONG. Just like any latino. Still gone native!
Let's mention a few things that don't make the news. Would you like to climb up the outside of a 40 foot storage tank in pitch darkness? How about boarding a vessel, at sea, on a rope ladder? Want to crawl inside a cargo vessel in spaces barely big enough for your body? What if a crew decided to throw you overboard 5 miles offshore?
Your responses demonstrate that you know NOTHING. You spout misconceptions and lies. So, to use your phraseology, STFU!
@70. You forgot to mention that Civil Service pensions are 'offset'. Civil Servants pay what is required for their pensions. They also PAY MORE than full NI and income tax. Do they get both pensions in full? They do not. One is offset against the other. Something else that Civil Servants GIVE for their country. God bless Her Majesty!
@71. Get lost! 182 years of lies. Sod off!
@76. You can whitter all you like. In 1982, we gave you a slap on the wrist. If you try again, a lot of argies are going to DIE. There are more of us.
@84. Thicko. In 1833, who voted for this 'elected' argie government? The murderers? The rapists? Prat!
@71:“tell your government to sit down to the negotiation table and find a legal and diplomatic way to end this dispute.”
Jan 12th, 2015 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How can there be a diplomatic way to end the dispute when your government insists that they will only negotiate if the outcome is Argentina getting the Falklands regardless of all issues to be settled?
That's not negotiation, that's expecting us to capitulate. As it stands, there are only two fair and equitable ways to settle the dispute:
1. Argentina takes their claim on the Falklands to the ICJ. You won't do it because it's a fake claim. You know it, I know it.
If you win, you still have to respect the Islander's rights, including self-determination. If you lose and have to acknowledge British sovereignty, you've lost nothing, because you had no true claim to begin with.
2. Argentina drops their claim and their objections to the Falklands being taken off the C24 list. This is the most fair option, as it costs us nothing, and again, you lose nothing.
But then again, both options have the possiblity of a fair outcome, so Argentina will never agree.
@71
Jan 12th, 2015 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are numerous legal and diplomatic ways to end this dispute. The only valid legal channel is the ICJ. Argentine could ask the UK to refer the dispute there, or it ask its fellow implanted Italo-Iberian colonial populations of Latin America on the C24 to get an opinion. If your case is a sound is as you claim, you have nothing to lose by doing either. And yet you don't. Why is that exactly?
Another legal route would be for Argentina to start respecting international law, democracy and human rights, and the agreements and has already freely signed up to, notably UN 1514 which states that no people is to be subject to alien domination.
But what Argentina wants instead is for the UK to impose upon the Falkland Islanders an Argentine colonial regime which, after one failed war and a near unanimous referendum, would be the textbook definition of alien domination. And this surrender of the UK is supposed to happen 30 years after it won a war started by Argentina.
Meanwhile Argentina's only response the legal principles of human rights and self-determination, is to claim that the islanders have no right even to express their wishes. But when your only argument is that your opponent has no right to be heard, you have lost, and shown yourself still be the bunch of narcissistic fascists you claim you no longer are.
Your current policy has absolutely no chance of succeeding, as I am sure everybody involved in its formulation really knows. The only possible objective can be to perpetuate and inflame the dispute as a means of manipulating a gullible electorate. Fall for it if you like.
The only reason these argie bloggers are on here is to spread lies and rubbish,
Jan 12th, 2015 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you do what you are taught to do,
you know full well you are entitled to nothing,
and you will get nothing.
76 Liberato
Jan 12th, 2015 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your patronising attitude is quite removed from reality, given the situation.
Your claims and demands have no basis in fact. You have no idea.
1833 - there was no “change of administration”, just an invasion and attempted imposition of a foreign military administration.
Settlers and traders were there before the UP forces arrived, with British permission, and still there after the UP soldiers were arrested by their own military - and were removed to face trial, in the United Provinces. Remember, there was no nation of “Argentina” or “Aryentina” as Paul Cedron calls it.
British - before, during, and after. NO expulsions. The UP backed down when the RECOGNISED AUTHORITIES inconveniently turned up.
As to Timerman,
“quote2:”Timerman stated publicly that the “interests” of the Islanders would be taken into account, but “not their wishes”.“
”Exactly“ says Liberato
With your inherent condescension, is that currently, the Islanders determine their own 'interests' by their own 'wishes'.
Quite different than somebody else 'telling them what to do'.
As to quote3:”Wasn't it you yourself who said Aryentinians should be allowed to move and to the Islands and buy property there, outnumbering and overwhelming the current small population, so they no longer held dominance ”
Liberato's reply,
”No, i wasnt. It is the british who say we are not alowed to reside there becouse we want to outnumbering or overwhelming the population. So check your fact. You are trying to put your propaganda in my mouth“
No, perhaps you didn't, not you. However, I find your objection above, to ”British Propaganda“, to be quite ironic.
Another one of your number, a rabid, unthinking Malvinista like yourself, was incensed and ranting that it was ”unfair“ Aryentinians could not buy land and settle freely in the Falklands!!
Your sense of entitlement is so unfounded, it's laughable!!
As to your Constitution- seriously, what Nation ”compromises” their Constitution???
Ha ha - too funny!!
If these brainwashed argies were / are so convinced that they own the islanders,
Jan 12th, 2015 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0then they should take it to the ICJ,
we have been telling them for years, the world has asked, more than thousands of times they have been told to go to the ICJ,
but they wont, they avoid it like the poison it is.
they have NO case full stop.
@87. No, 71, what I'm going to do is to tell my government to stand up on its feet and wipe your miserable little shitpile off the face of the planet.
Jan 12th, 2015 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@71. You're not playing the victim? Really? How many hundreds of years did you have in which to learn how useless you are? How many years to learn that Britain is best? You can learn. Accept your inconsequential place peacefully or learn what a 21st century power can do. 1982 was just a slap on the wrist. But we haven't forgotten 255 British servicemen and 3 Falkland Islanders for which you have yet to pay. Check OUR history. WE don't forget. 10,000, 20,000, 50,000 argie dead? I don't have any concern, consideration or pity for argies. The war is NOT over. Your choice. YOU deserve to die. And you will. I don't care what others say. YOU invaded a free country. YOU occupied it. YOU attempted to enforce your foreign ways. YOU were told, by the UN, to lay down your weapons and get off the Islands. YOU ignored that. YOU started a war. WE won. Because WE are immeasurably better. Rabbit your lies all you like. Try it again when you are faced with British armed forces decimating argieland. Surrender NOW!!
@84
Jan 13th, 2015 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“#82: Quote: “If you were to replace our elected government and replace it with an Argentine one against our will, that would be a hostile act of colonisation”
That, is exactly what you british did in 1833.
”You live on a colony taken aways from us”
On land that Britain had a claim to prior to 1833.
I would agree if the settlers had been ejected as well, but asking them if they wanted to stay or leave was in effect a democratic vote, i.e. they were given a choice.
Also, as no military garrison was left by the British in 1833, why, if the United Provinces had a claim, did they not simply return to the Islands before January 1834 when the British AGAIN had to respond to murderers terrorising the settlement?
All your versions of 'United Provinces' authority seem to be composed of a bunch of murderers. thieves and rapist, traits commonly applied to describe pirates. And British sailors working for the United Provinces.
The military landed by you did not exactly endear themselves to the settlers by raping their commander's wife after murdering him.
If you call that a legitimate authority this perhaps explains how Argentina's standards of authority are still lampooned to this day.
How many people did Onslow's crew murder and rape?
What actual violence did he use to ask Pinedo to leave?
He used a letter, not a threat of force and not surprisingly most settlers rejected a return to SA as the UP garrison actually frightened the settlers rather than giving them security and instead trying to introduce a penal colony!
You frequently forget to mention that on the naval side of that authority, ( if you accept Pinedo as your replacement for Mestivier), that the British expelled the BRITISH sailors that formed most of Pinedo's crew, as well as the other nationalities that formed part of Pinedo's forces.
I would look forward with relish to this particular fact (that Argentina ignores) being raised at any presentation that Argentina makes to the ICJ.
@88HN : That's precisely the point . They don't actually want to succeed in any negotiation .
Jan 13th, 2015 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Every Argentine government since 1948 has harped on and on about the injustice done to poor little Argentina , and as every citizen is brought up on a diet of injustice ( the football results every monday , the vivezas or grafts carried out by every shopkeeper , tax inspector or roadside policeman , the bad marks given at a whim at school ) they should supposedly stand shoulder to shoulder , united as one with their government against the colonial oppressor , forgetting for a moment the shit state of the economy , the roads , the police force , the power grid and the transport system .
Fortunately that fascist bullshit doesn't work anymore , and only a small minority of pubescent kids and paid bums on forums like this one still proudly carry the flag and beat the drum . Before going out and mugging an old lady or a tourist , that is .
One has to ask a simple yet impossible question to these indoctrinated argies,
Jan 13th, 2015 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you know the difference between an empire and an empire,
Do you know the difference between a colony and a colony,
and importantly
do you know the difference between self-determination [ British style ]
or self determination [ Argentine style ]
the Difference [ because you wont know ]
is the British gave up its empire, and colonies for self determination,
the Argentine Empire [if acquired ] would still have the Falkland's AS a colony and NO self determination.
simple,
unless you are a brainwashed argie,
no offence intended...
@95 Briton. I´m sure that after their criminal and hypocritical eviction, any DIEGO GARCÍA Islander knows all what is necessary to know about SELF DETERMINATION (British style).
Jan 14th, 2015 - 03:44 am - Link - Report abuse 096@
Jan 14th, 2015 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0and no doubt you will follow this up with all the proof required,
please tell us abt this hypocritical eviction..
@96
Jan 14th, 2015 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So do you think Diego Garcia is a precedent that should be followed in the case of the Falklands?
He's reply will be interesting.
Jan 14th, 2015 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well , you have to cut off the water supply first .
Jan 14th, 2015 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it's perfectly obvious to anybody. If you do something wrong once, you have to keep doing it wrong over and over again.
Jan 14th, 2015 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This should not be confused with Argentina, which never does anything wrong, because everything is always somebody else's fault.
The Diego garcia and Falkland situations differ in one key point .
Jan 14th, 2015 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Diego Garcia is nowhere near Antarctica , with it's huge potential mineral wealth , nor does it sit on large reserves of off shore oil .
Malvinistas can whinge till the cows come home , but they ain't getting them .
Let's not forget, it's all a smoke screen to distract from the Aryentine economy
Jan 14th, 2015 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ARGENTINA - pay your debts!!
Agreed
Jan 14th, 2015 - 11:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@97 and @99 (Briton)
Jan 15th, 2015 - 06:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0I´m afraid that both your guesses are wrong, owing to the same reason. When searching under the Title : “Diego García´Islanders eviction after UK-US agreement and the abandon of the Chagossian archipelago” I have found 'near one thousand, two hundred and thirty (1230)' results. I must accept, certainly, “the BURDEN of the probe”, but I confide it to your analysis since are well-known historical facts, and I daresay, distasteful enough to the U.K. and, in no lesser degree, to the U.S.; to keep them as judges, for the sake of fairness.
@ 98 (Hans niesund)
NO, CERTAINLY , NOT AT ALL....! . BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST, BECAUSE ALL KELPERS, I HOPE, ARE AWARE THAT E V I C T I O N HAS N E V E R BEEN CONSIDERED IN THEIR CASE. THIS IS SIMPLY NOT SERIOUS, BECAUSE, HAVING BEEN BORN IN THE ISLANDS ARE “IPSO FACTO” ARGENTINES ACCORDING WITH OUR LAWS. IF YOU REFUSE SUCH CONDITION, IT IS YOUR CHOICE, AS IT COULD BE OF ANY OTHER FOREIGNER THAT PREFER TO RETAIN ITS NATIONALITY, and we´ll respect it, certainly. In the same way, our concern is Land´s Sovereignity, not its Property. Please, be kind enough to remember our way of dealing with Welsh settlers in Northern Patagonia (150 years ago and 30 since 1833).
But I have spoken of HYPOCRITICAL EVICTION . So, I invite you to compare SELF DETERMINATION (British Style) as brilliantly and gayly performed as in the recent insular referendum, IN THE CASE OF A COLONY (or ex-Colony) OF WHITE EUROPEAN DESCENT; and SELF DETERMINATION (British Style) when applied to COLOURED PEOPLE of the Tropics (many of them with decades of residence in the Island)....
@ 2 toooldtodieyoung “couldn´t wait to hear what the neighbours thought of the bust”. I think I can recognize an earnest desire when it appears, and so I did my utmost to satisfy his, in my @15. I´m afraid I have failed. But, after all, I´m a brainwashed argentine...
liberato
Jan 15th, 2015 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0Please stop lying about 1833.
Britain did not ..“change the administration in 1833”..it is not the British position that this happened it is the SECOND ARGENTINE LIE.
The FIRST ARGENTINE LIE was that in 1833 an Argentine population was expelled. This was such an extreme and blatant lie that even the Argentines backed away from it, replacing it with the second ARGENTINE LIE.
The Argentines had no administration in 1833, they were not governing anything.
The tiny (20-30) remanants of the Vernet community were under the leadership of two british subjects Brisbane and Dickson and had been for the previous 2 years after Vernet ran away.
The crew of the Sarandi who had arrived just 6 weeks before, and had already mutineed, murdered, raped were neither a population, or an authority or an administration...they we the crew of a boat.
Sadly for you, the 180 year long full civilian population, with homes, businesses, their own government, heritage...is not the same as 55 crew of a boat for 6 weeks.
#106: So you think Argentina did not named governors?, nor administered the islands?, nor granted license?, nor they did not embargoed north american ships for not respecting argentine law?, etc?. So we were not atacked by americans for enforcing argentine law?.
Jan 15th, 2015 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@107
Jan 15th, 2015 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No Agentina did not name governors. Vernet got himself named Commandant in 1829, at which point there was an immediate British protest. The only attempt to actually put an Argentine structure in place was in 1833, and that wasn't an administration of the islands, it was a penal colony.
Argentina wasn't attacked by Americans for enforcing Argentina law, but for unlawfully seizing American ships in a territory that was not recognised as Argentine. This kind of behaviour is called “piracy”.
@107
Jan 15th, 2015 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Correct, Argentina did none of these things....Ever
107 Libetato
Jan 15th, 2015 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whatever you say you did to assert sovereignty - you did not have the legal authority to do so.
@102 “The Diego García and Falklands situation differ in one key point. Diego García is nowhere near Antarctica, with its huge potential mineral wealth, nor does it sit on large reserves of off shore oil”.
Jan 16th, 2015 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0THE VERY ROCK-BOTTOM OF THE MATTER...UNDER THE ENGLISH EVERLASTING POINT OF VIEW!. SIR FRANCIS, WHAT A PLEASURE TO GREET YOU AFTER ALMOST FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS...! ENGLAND´S REAL BUILDER...! We, Argentines, dare only to remember you that we are whining since 1833, when all that wealth was unknown, and before one M.P. could recommend the Crown to give us back the “MISERABLE” Falklands Islands that we “JUSTLY” claimed...
Diego Garcia has no potable aquifer so no-one can be indigenous to the islands, in fact the Mauritians were given money by the UK to take the sparse population that were there.
Jan 16th, 2015 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#108, #109: You are children right?. yours response is like if i tell you that the british did never administered the islands becouse i consider they are not the owner of the place, so whatever they do is not an administration but an illegal possesion. Grow up kids.
Jan 16th, 2015 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#111
Jan 16th, 2015 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When the UK RE ASSERTED IT'S SOVEREIGNTY there was NO talk of oil fields in the adjacent waters and Antarctica was Terra Incognita, so, what is your point about reclaiming them in 1833 for oil/mineral rights in Antarctica ?
113 Liberato
Jan 16th, 2015 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0YOU are the child.
Tha Islands were claimed many times over, BEFORE 1833.
There were people living there, with British permission BEFORE your military garrison suddenly appeared in 1833 and claimed to be the governing authority.
The British publicly protested, and when they turned up, after just a few weeks, your forces left, very meekly.
They didn't even believe they had a right to be there, themselves.
@113
Jan 16th, 2015 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see you're not familiar with the concept of evidence. Perhaps this might help : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence
Liberato
Jan 16th, 2015 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where to start with ripping your evidence apart?
Firstly, let's start when Argentina first claimed sovereignty.
1820 Jewitt...who promptly left. So whatever claim in abstentia Argentina claims, is irrelevant or as worthless as the predations British/Spanish claims.
1828-1831 Vernet...this is the third Argentine Lie...before setting sail for the Falklands Vernet contacted the British consulate, and assured the UK his business activity was purely a commercial activity, he had no position on sovereignty and was not interested in the politics. It appears by 1829 he had changed his mind and taken a ceremonial title from the UP (unrecognised by anyone externally), but by 1831 he had left the islands, leaving two British subjects in charge, and never returned. Argentina clearly were ignoring any Vernet title by 1832 when they sent the Sarandi with a new Governor.
Nov 1832: Absolutely in Nov 1832 there was a UP governor, a UP flag, and a Up admitstration..it lasted 3 weeks until the governor was murdered by his own crew and his wife raped.
3 weeks after that the UK arrived and removed the crew of the Sarandi (50 or so) people.
So yes Liberato...we concede 50 people for 6 weeks constitutes the Argentine total claim...that's it.
Because of that you wish 3000 people for 180 years to give up theirs.
LUDICROUS
@114 (Clyde 15) : “...there was NO talk of oil fields in the adjacent waters and Antarctica was Terra Incognita, so, what is your point about reclaiming them in 1833 for oil/mineral rights in Antarctica? ”
Jan 17th, 2015 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, I have been misunderstood. My intention is, precisely, to convey my belief that NO UTILITARIAN CONSIDERATION OF ANY KIND could be, in 1833 and many decades afterwards, our main reason for our continuous claim of the Islands. It is the conscience of our Right trampled underfoot. Sir Francis Drake (in the sixteenth century) and Sir William Molesworth (M.P. in the nineteenth) were twin spiritual brothers in regarding them as PREYS. The second one has no inconvenient at all in acknowledging the Justice of our claim.(So IMPORTANT a point for him...!) The key of the matter was that that MISERABLE bunch of rocks were too expensive for the Crown...! And, if born again, he could now blame himself only of insufficient fore-sight..! But no Argentine of any epoch would ever speak of “las MISERABLES Islas Malvinas” ¡Never..!
¡ Por ausente, por vencido,
bajo extraño pabellón,
ningún suelo más querido;
de la Patria en la extensión ..!
Argfellow
Jan 17th, 2015 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The point is...YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO THE ISLANDS...to be trampled under foot or otherwise...NONE...never had...never will.
It is perfectly simple, Argentina has never maintained a civilian population on the islands, and never had a population on the islands that considered themselves Argentine.
There are literally thousands of territorial disputes where claims stronger than Argentinas could be made.
There is no justice to your claim, just a tool made up by Peron and continued to this day in order to control the ignorant in Argentina behind an imagined cause....you have been duped.
118 Argfellow
Jan 17th, 2015 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We get it - you WANT the Falklands.
But 'wanting' is not the same as 'owning', and descendants of the original settler inhabitants have lived there continuously under British authority and called it Home, for 180 years.
The nice part about our democracy, and an essential part, is that MP's can have dissenting views from the government, and are encouraged to debate those views publicly.
Therefore, you will always find opposing views.
Some British people at times, may not have agreed with keeping the Islands, but by no means all.
In the end, the Government that represented the people and acted in their interests, resolved to support the Falklands as a colony and later as a BOT, in keeping with the wishes of the inhabitants.
Sorry Argfellow, you can WANT all you like, but unless the people of the Falklands WANT to be part of Argentina, you're out of luck.
It is ultimately, only their decision.
That is why there is no point in talking to the UK without talking to the Islanders.
If you want “bi-lateral talks”, then talk directly to the Falklands Islsnds Government, the FIG.
You have been bleating got so long, nobody is listening anymore.
@120 (Troy Tempest)
Jan 19th, 2015 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nobody...? And the rest of the world...?. Please, remember the outburst that arose in the U.K. Mrs. Clinton's statement regarding the necessity of resuming negotiations with Argentina, “according with U.N. recommendations”. I mention only this case because of the “special relationship” with the U.S. But in fact this circumstance tantamounts to a DE FACTO acknowledgment of Englisth sovereignty on the Islands, however leaving in the mist DE JURE situation, on the part of the Obama´s administration. Mock the PRACTICAL value of this change (because it HAS been a change) as much as you like, but it has been. And the rest of America..? And Russia..? And China..?
Argfellow,
Jan 19th, 2015 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are wrong in so many ways- where to start??
Not “English” sovereignty, but UK.
- a UN “recommendation” to solve things peacefully - not a binding Resolution.
Argentina invaded and militarily occupied the Islands in 1982 - that's the end of the UN “Recommendation” for a peaceful solution.
- there was a BINDING UN RESOLUTION 604, that Argentine forces MUST leave the Islands. They did not.
The local people of the Islands wre oppressed and imprisoned by an invading Argentine military.
The result was the Falklands War where many died on each side, but the Argentine military SURRENDERED.
In 2013, the people of the Islands voted 99% to remain under British administration, but retaining the right to Independence when they choose to do so.
That is recognised as SELF DETERMINATION, as outlined in the UN Charter.
If Argentina were to take over the Islands without the agreement of those same people, it would no longer be Self Determination, it would be someone else TELLING them what to do - ARGENTINAE DETERMINATION - against their will.
The UK is open to “talks”, but they must be with the population concerned - the Islanders.
Timerman DEMANDED talks when he was in London.
The Foreign Office agreed, and INVITED Timerman to attend, and arranged a meeting - he REFUSED and did not come.
Your Constitution says your government MUST regain SOVEREIGNTY of the Falklands.
What did you want to “talk” about?
The door is open.
@ 122 Troy Tempest
Jan 19th, 2015 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This argfellow thinks he is so clever but is just as indoctrinated by the system as the rest of the morons, he is just more loquacious, and that’s all.
You should try him on religion: or better still, don't.
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