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Argentine debt climbed 5.4bn of Friday following Griesa's ruling favoring 'me too' bond holders

Saturday, June 6th 2015 - 08:00 UTC
Full article 41 comments

Argentina must pay US$5.4 billion to more than 500 “me-too” holders of defaulted debt before it can pay the majority of its creditors, a US judge ruled on Friday. Argentina anticipated it would appeal the ruling. Read full article

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  • Enrique Massot

    Judge Thomas Griesa has unified the holdout front, making it easier for Argentina to negotiate a comprehensive debt restructuring agreement.
    The CFK government has stated its will to negotiate with the whole group of holdouts; those who obtained Griesa's first ruling and those benefiting from the June 5 ruling as well.
    To be clear, the Republic will be seeking agreements similar to those reached in 2005 and 2010 with creditors representing over 92 per cent of the country's foreign debt that lead to a 70 per cent haircut.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 08:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip

    Doesn't matter what the republic will be seeking.

    It's what it is required to pay according to its own contracts.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @1. Here's the result of the 'negotiation'. Argieland required to pay US$5.4 billion. Have you worked out the interest, Reekie? I make that about US$1.4 billion.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    not long from now they'll wheel Griesa to the porridge rooms and the very next day politics will see his judgments over ruled.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    Stare decisis is beyond you.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Wait for it, wait for it, wait for it.

    Told ya

    The next Arg gov't will pay, everything they owe plus the legal fees.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    I'm reminded of what's happening with Greece, except that Europeans still care somewhat about Greece collapsing completely. In Argentina's case, most nations don't have any sympathy.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    #1 What clause in the original financing states that “anyone” holding those bonds “must” re-finance and at a rate of 23 cents on the dollar because 92% have re-financed? A simple question no? There is no bankruptcy protection for nations so the debt never goes away unless the creditors are paid or agree to write it off. Deal with it......in the comforts of Canada.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    5 - Political hierarchy is beyond you.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @8. You're not expecting a sensible answer, are you? Reekie is a K propagandist. He has no knowledge except what the Kow tells him to say. Away in the safety and comfort of Canada, he reckons he can keep on supporting the regime. Question is, who else sees it his way? Did any Canadians buy those fraudulent argie bonds? How about French-Canadians that relate to their compatriots in France? And to make it worse, Kirchner crows about argie 'advances'. Of course, argieland is falling apart. She's just trying to avoid the piano wire for the final few months. Then she'll disappear. With her stolen billions. Has she checked out Saddam Hussein? Has she already prepared her hole in the ground?

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    9. If anything US State will get involved and pressure Arg to pay not the other way around.
    It will probably be part of the IMF bailout they'll be asking for...

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 03:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    #10 Conqueror

    “Has she already prepared her hole in the ground?”

    That's a very disrespectful question to ask about the worshipped and adored reincarnation of Evita Peron...

    ...It really would be entertaining to see her hiding in a dug out rabbit hole like Saddam was, unbathed with her hair in a mess and her makeup caked with dirt...

    Maximo's fate would ideally be him chased by a pack of howling dogs across the Pampas like a wild boar. Of course Timerman being bound and gagged and shipped in a trunk to Israel by the Mossad for his crimes would be nice. Members of the Cámpora movement would be permanently exiled to “re-education” work camps in the northern border region next to Bolivia.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    Alice affirmmed that rotting roadkill doesn't negotiate with hedge funds.

    Review the links below:

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    # 4 with a score of 22!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #104 with a score of 3.8!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #1 with a score of 5393!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #54 with a score of .52!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #1 with 73%!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #107 with a 34 score!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Reeeekie writes: “Here It is, all the issues of a nation of forty-some million people explained in just seven words. We are all liars.”

    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    If there's one thing I love about Argentina, it's that no rational person here trusts the government.

    They've been screwed over so many times before by their politicians (and the banking system), they know it's all lies.

    Curiously it keeps happening.

    This place has been enduring some of the worst measures imaginable– capital controls and exchange controls. Price controls. Media controls.

    The government controls nearly every aspect of the economy; in fact, Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner actually told her nation on Wednesday that without the state there would be no growth.

    (Amazingly she followed that up with “No one can teach us how to make the economy grow.”)

    Yet despite being admittedly clueless, Cristina campaigns for even more government control, and even more authority.

    This is so typical of bankrupt nations.

    When governments find themselves in financial trouble because of the stupid decisions that they've made, their first response is to award themselves even more power to make even stupider decisions.

    http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/06/argentina-capital-controls/

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The_troLLimpic_games

    Argentina will never obey the court because the court is powerless to enforce their corrupt decisions, so it does not matter.

    No “next” government will pay or obey the court, because that “next” government will become the “last” government within minutes of attempting to pay. The “next” government after the “last” will then wisely revert to the prior course, which is to make sure Griesa and his cronies never see one cent.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    15. The noose will tighten and the interest rates charged for Int'l bonds will increase until they are unsustainable.
    Then Arg won't be able to afford to buy Fuel.
    That's when it will pay.

    Rgs are not a smart people.
    They're like a teenager with a credit card, hiding from their parents when the bill comes.
    Mostly a silly stupid people living in the past.

    I can't wait until they're street fighting over the last bag of beans.
    Just like The Venezuelans are now...

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    The civilised world is still wondering why there are so few in Argentina who understand the concept of repayment of debt with interest as stipulated under the terms of the legitimate contracts. No responsible investor will even consider Argentina, and precious few of the reckless and irresponsible will, either. Argentina's actions on its debt have made it the poster-child for “hazmereír.”

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    11 - your wishful thinking acting up again.

    I think it was the '10 years' thing that set him off this time.

    Some time over a decade ago, yankee had an evil genius plan, in that plan he was by now living on the compound interest of his great success.
    But now he's just angry cause those years are wasted.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    How a predictable response from persons who of course couldn't care less about the lives of Argentines.
    Even if my personal situation would not be affected as many here continue to note ad nauseam, I do care for my fellow country people.
    Judge Thomas Griesa's interpretation of the famous pari passu clause are but a slap in the face of every single foreign debt restructuring process around the world.
    However, and in spite of the “mee-too” probable champagne celebrations, the financial world will eventually realize how Pyhrric a victory Griesa's decisions will become.
    By blocking Argentina's debt service payments to creditors representing 92-plus per cent of the restructured debt to favour holdouts representing the remaining 7 per cent, Griesa has made more improbable that anybody gets a cent-ever.
    Cristina won't certainly pay, and it would be political suicide for any future government to pay the vultures.
    But Griesa, who rules whatever greedy financiers will ask, is not in a condition to realize it. Too bad. He will never see the end of Argentina's contempt of his rulings and will die a frustrated judge.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    Note the Deutche Bank link below. You have to copy and paste the entire URL into your browser to view how bad rotting roadkill has screwed its self.

    LOL.

    Good times!

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    # 4 with a score of 22!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #104 with a score of 3.8!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #1 with a score of 5393!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #54 with a score of .52!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #1 with 73%!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    #107 with a 34 score!
    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Reeeekie writes: “Here It is, all the issues of a nation of forty-some million people explained in just seven words. We are all liars.”

    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_country_e.htm#respondent

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    RMPH / TTT ad nauseam / no Vestige of a brain / just cannot understand that contracts are only a strong as the jurisdiction they were formed in.

    Griesa has the power of the USA backing his moves and how about The Dark Country, who do they have: NADA!

    Eventually, but certainly, TDC WILL have to pay, in full, with interest.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    #21 ChrisR
    Now you read carefully this: Not a cent for the holdouts until they come to the table to negotiate restructured payment of their bonds.
    Argentina can't do otherwise. Paying those who put their bets on getting “all or nothing” would be a slap in the face of the creditors--representing the overwhelming majority of Argentina's foreign debt--who accepted a significant haircut on their bonds and have been getting their money ever since.
    Of course, Paul Singer and friends do not care about it. And they are justifiably hopeful, based on Griesa's ruling, that they'll get what they want.
    Their prey, this time, may reveal a bit tough for them to chew however. It may even break their beaks.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    Beyond the trolls comprehension.

    Singer has already paid himself with the profits that he has obtained by shorting the capital markets on rotting roadkill debt as he drove that market downward.

    Game over.

    The pain that he is now extracting from the citizenery of rotting roadkill is just for fun.

    rotting roadkill is paying Chavaland prices to rent money.

    Fun times.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    #23 Chronic
    “Singer has already paid himself with the profits that he has obtained by shorting the capital markets...”
    Thank you chronic for making a very important point.
    This is as much a power trip as it is unlimited greed.
    However, I would add that the increasingly concentrated international financial system demands an example to be made out of rogue Argentina.
    This is the reason for the ever increasing assaults to intimidate the country and the CFK government into giving up and come to the fold, hat in hand and begging for forgiveness.
    It would have been easier and politically expedient for Cristina Fernandez to put her country on its knees in front of Singer, Griesa and company. She hasn't, and by doing that she is breaking new ground in the international power balance. Many countries are watching and hoping for an Argentina victory that will create a good precedent for the whole developing world.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    Cretina writes the cheques and the rank and file rotting roadkillians get to pay them.

    Her behavior is the height of juvenile self absorption.

    LOL.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    Beyond an Isletter's comprehension.

    The bonds became worthless in 2001 when Argentina defaulted.
    They are lucky to be offered anything for them.
    As I have said before the real culprits are the ones who originally peddled the bonds to gullible buyers as a good investment.
    Singer the snakes asshole is really just a corporate loan shark.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    24 Chronic
    “Cretina writes the cheques and the rank and file rotting roadkillians get to pay them. Her behavior is the height of juvenile self absorption.”

    By lowly insulting a country (rotting roadkillians) and by interpreting acts of government as “juvenile self absorption” you have managed, in just a couple of lines, to throw a tantrum typical of a spoiled rotten brat. Congratulations.

    Oh, and Klingon is absolutely right @26. Well said!

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 22 KMPH
    “Now you read carefully this” Do you really TALK like this?

    You either do not understand how the 'terms' were 'offered', or as usual you are lying.

    The terms were 'take it or lose it'!

    Banks of course agreed because their customers would be absorbing the cost but 'small investors' such as pensioners and the like were faced with losing nearly all of their life savings for a bunch of crooks.

    Now of course they are covered and although they will have to wait a little longer they WILL get their money and good luck to them.

    Just watch Kickitoff get kicked on the balls over his stupid comments.

    Jun 06th, 2015 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    These rotting roadkill clowns are the most delusional regime on the planet.

    Jun 07th, 2015 - 02:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • HansNiesund

    @27

    Gosh. So Argentina's bad debts are all somebody elses's fault? That figures, I suppose, since everything else always is too.

    But there's one curious aspect of poor, poor Argentina's perennial status of victimhood - it always seems to come about despite the fulsome support of “the whole world”, or “many countries”, or the United Nations, or whoever just happens to be interested at the time. Thus we are told, for example, that the whole world supports Argentina's heroic crusade to deprive the Falkand Islanders of their rights and liberties, and now it appears that many countries are cheering on Argentina!s current masterclass in bad faith towards its victims, creditors, and legal obligations.

    And yet despite these constant levels of support, poor poor Argentina always seems to end up getting done over in the end by somebody or other. What's going on here? Has no Argentine government ever been master of its own fate? Why has poor, poor Argentina in particular been singled out for constant victimhood in this way?

    Jun 07th, 2015 - 06:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I don't think this U$5B includes the Italian bondholders since they took their case to ISCID.
    Don't the Japanese/Germans have some holdouts too?
    Pretty sure Griesa will let them pile on too

    Remember the USA also has not implemented the trade sanctions they won at WTO last year.
    We will.
    We've not forgotten.

    My guess if the next Prez doesn't come into alignment quickly with the court rulings there will be a huge amount of pressure brought to bear.

    It will make me happy,

    Jun 07th, 2015 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    @12. The real question is; How far would the botox sag? Nose down next to her navel. Flat chest. And just what will he foot get stuck in?
    @14. Argieland has a 'government'? I know it's what it calls itself, but really. I see that there is no listing for organised crime in argieland on Wikipedia. Proving, I suggest, that the place is so corrupt and criminal that it's unnecessary to be 'organised'. Especially with the 'president' showing how it's done.
    @15. Oh dear. What happens when every country except the other 'pariahs' sever diplomatic relations? When all those countries refuse to export to or import from argieland? When all the 'pariahs' get hit with the same sanctions? 'Wonderful' Russia thought it was immune. Isn't though, is it? 'Sacred' Iran thought it was immune. It's so desperate it wants to demand that all sanctions are lifted the moment it signs a nuclear agreement. It's now down to threatening the military option. How unfortunate that argieland doesn't have a military option.....NOT!
    @19. Tell me why any sane, sensible person would give a toss about argie lives? Being a rebellious colony and all? If there are two things that mark argieland's history, it's theft and attempted theft. Thieve from the indigenes, thieve from the 'mother' country, attempt to thieve from Britain, thieve from Paraguay, attempt to thieve from Brazil and Uruguay, skip a few years, attempt to thieve from Chile, attempt to thieve from Britain again. That last one effectively destroys argieland's military capability. Guess what happens if argieland tries to thieve from Britain again!
    @22. Now you read carefully. BLOCKADE!! Nothing in, nothing out. Get a list of what argieland HAS to import. How high can you pile soy before it starts rotting? Just from its own biochemical heat. Go ask a farmer near you.
    @24. Don't you want to list the other criminal countries that hope argieland can find a solution so they don't have to pay their debts either? Cretina's 'new ground'!

    Jun 07th, 2015 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    rotting roadkillians still don't get it.

    I' will try to make this as simply as possible in order that the affected parties may be able to absorb some part of it.

    The cost of insuring ANY large debt associated in ANY manner with rotting roadkill has increased due in part to this most recent judgement.

    The increased cost of default insurance is reflected in the financing utilized in the production of any service or product of scale.

    This cost is then passed on WITH additional markup to all consumers.

    The rank and file rotting roadkillian bears this increase in price.

    This lender's risk premium is reflected EVERY single time the original amount cycles through the market so that in the end the rent of the capital becomes a major input cost.

    And this is a significant driver of domestic (rotting roadkill) inflation.

    So Cretina - for now - stiffs her creditors and Che and Maria rotting roadkillian pay for it next month and the month after, etc.

    False bravado does have a cost.

    Jun 07th, 2015 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    #33
    This is not bravado. Previous governments knelt in front of the international finance before. It led Argentina straight to bankruptcy.
    Argentines do know how they were fleeced before and appreciate Cristina for not bending.
    The international finance, of which the HSBC's secret Swiss accounts is only the tip of the iceberg, is largely dominated by greed and scrupulousness. Somebody has to take a stand against it.

    Jun 08th, 2015 - 06:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    You seem to have little understanding of the workings of finance. If you have poor credit you pay high rates to borrow. If you default on a regular basis you can't borrow from anyone but loan sharks like the Chinese.

    CFK's refusal to pay is not clever or grown-up. It is condemning the next generation to suffer the consequences of her delinquency.

    Jun 08th, 2015 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Argentina has never been in worse shape financially.
    Not in 2001
    Not ever
    BCRA is bankrupt, every single Org within Arg has had its U$ assets stolen and replaced with worthless Rg bonds paying interest lower than inflation.
    There a TSUNAMI of inflation right around the bend. It should hit Q1-Q2 2016.

    I don't think there is anyone or anything that can stop hyperinflation from happening.
    V is at 550% inflation Arg is a year or two behind it.

    Jun 08th, 2015 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    rotting roadkill is approaching negative liquidity.

    The various government accounts have been looted and the sums contained therein have been redirected for purposes other than those for which they were originally authorized and collected.

    rotting roadkill is fast approaching the point where it would have been cheaper to suffer austerity at the hands of its creditors, settle the original debts promptly and get on with life.

    As its debt is in arrears it is now subject to penalty and accelerated interest as well as additional interest on the remaining unpaid interest payments.

    Since large sums of its debt are denominated externally, the repayment of them becomes exacerbated with virtually worthless rotting roadkill pesos.

    As rotting roadkill mortgages the taxes to be collected on future commodity production its net worth is reduced further due to the interest discount on them.

    China and Russia's economies are under more stress than either have been subject to in the past 20 years.

    rotting roadkill - having neither the ability to pay its debts and having virtually exhausted what little external borrowing was available to it - is finished.

    Commodities shrink in value and input costs continue to rise.

    Fun times ahead!

    Jun 08th, 2015 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    #36 YB
    “Argentina has never been in worse shape...not even in 2001.”
    YB: In 2001, Argentines risked their lives--about 30 in fact died--to end a government they made responsible for the worst crisis the country had ever seen, which had made po0r half of the population.
    None like the current situation. In spite of a sagging world economy, last tourist season saw record numbers of Argentines vacationing, inside and outside the country.
    That is why Cristina's growing levels of popular support is driving nuts her political opponents.

    Jun 09th, 2015 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    38. Are you too stupid to read financial figures?
    I stand by what i said
    You're a liar and a propagandist.

    You disgust me.

    Jun 09th, 2015 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hepatia

    The British are wasting their time trying to collect this money. That's their business I suppose but they should not be allowed to waste the time of the US courts with their attempts.

    Jun 12th, 2015 - 05:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 40 Hepatitis

    Who, exactly, are “the British” you are yapping on about?

    Do you not understand that the bonds are under US law?

    Finally, why are you so dumb?

    Jun 12th, 2015 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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