MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine businessman indicted by US in FIFA corruption case, turns in Italy
Of the 14 people indicted by the United States in the FIFA corruption case, five members are businessmen that worked for various sports marketing and consulting companies that dealt extensively with the world's football organization. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesI was in Italy for a formal dinner at the weekend and staying with Chilean/Italian friends there. We were talking about FIFA and other cases of corruption including the resignation of the Chilean Minister. The Italians were laughing and saying that this is 'every day' and 'normal' in Italy. They really couldn't see what the fuss was about and considered it childlike compared to Italian business practises.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 08:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have to wonder if this is why the Argentine turned himself over in Italy. He is probably a hero there. :)
The impact of the contribution of italian moral DNA to the rotting roadkillian culture has been previously noted.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 02. The problem is Spanish and indian DNA, not Italian...
Jun 10th, 2015 - 03:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Italians migrated to the US and Australia... One notorous one is a New York Judge that has rotting roadkill by the balls...
Still searching in earnest for something to be right about?
Jun 10th, 2015 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL.
Keep looking. : )
Actually Im pretty bored of being always right.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll never beat you at spamming and trolling, that is for sure! Keep it up
@3 You don't think there is a huge Italian influence in Argentina?
Jun 10th, 2015 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”An Italian Argentine (Spanish and Italian: italo-argentino) is a person born in Argentina of Italian descent or an Italy-born person who resides in Argentina. It is estimated up to 24 million Argentines have some degree of Italian descent (up to 62.5% of the total population), making it the largest ethnic group in the country.[1] Italians began arriving in Argentina in great numbers from 1857 to 1940, totaling 44.9% of the entire immigrant population; more than from any other country (including Spain at 31.5%), and this migratory flow continued to the early 1950s, with Italy also having the most emigrants to Argentina for the decades 1980–2000. Because of this, Italian descent is at least 60% of the population, almost 25 million.”
6. I dont see what's that got to do.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Spics raped the arse out of indian women since they came 500 years ago. They are by far the largest ethnic group. All the more popular surnames of Argentina are ALL Spanish.
1.González 568.240
2.Rodríguez 483.212
3.Gómez 426.253
4.Fernández 411.462
5.López 393.704
6.Díaz 346.271
7.Martínez 336.094
8.Pérez 294.527
9.García 290.821
10.Sánchez 271.351
http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/15268374/Los-100-apellidos-mas-comunes-en-Argentina.html
All 100 of the surnames are of Spanish orign.
Transpole those surnames to the most popular surnames to any other Latam country and it will be almost identical.
How many Italian or other European non Spanish surnames can be found in slums.... Hmm not very much.
Thats a given.
This can't be stressed enough -
Jun 10th, 2015 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reeeekie writes: “Here It is, all the issues of a nation of forty-some million people explained in just seven words. We are all liars.”
http://en.mercopress.com/2015/05/15/cristina-fernandez-comes-out-strongly-in-defense-of-minister-kicillof
@7 I didn't make it up - just quoted the facts.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting that certain cities - Rome, Milan, Genoa,Venice and Florence among them - have in the past contributed so much to the arts, science and commerce. Ancient history, though.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 05:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine is completely right. I suspect CabezaDura has never been to Argentina to make such ridiculous statements. Spanish surnames tend to be few in comparison to the vast diversity of Italian names. (Something like six times as much.). Here in Chile we use our mother's surname to help identify each other.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0According to the Italian government, there are 31 million Brazilians of Italian descent. Argentina 20 million, Uruguay 1 million and the United States 18 million. Chile has somewhere around 600 thousand of which most emigrated from the northern cities like Milan, Turin, Genoa and Florence.
Argentinian-Italians generally emigrated from the southern regions of Campania, Calabria and Sicily. The southern Italian mix with the Spaniards in Argentina created a their infamous “Viveza criolla” mentality,
Its nto a very good sampling but I can tell you most of my Arg friends have Italian last names.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11 I have Chilean friends living in the northern Italian cities. Their families moved to Chile decades ago and they maintain contact with the Italian branches of the families. As I said, I was in Italy for the big event this last weekend.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 07:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is astonishing that CD is unaware that Italians make up the largest ethnic group in Argentina. I noticed the similarity of cultures on my very first day in Buenos Aires, oh so many years ago.
Elaine,
Jun 10th, 2015 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, well the Italians here in Chile are a very closely knitted group with their own sports stadium and country club. Their are several Chilean schools that teach Italian as their first language. Many carry Italian passports even though they're 3rd generation Chileans and most trace their ancestry from northern Italy.
Anyone that's ever been to Buenos Aires knows that Argentinians are southern Italians, that speak a Spanish strongly influenced by Italian dialects and spend hours drinking expressos and cannot communicate without constantly waving their hands around in the air. Pizza and spaghetti are the second and third favorite dishes of an Argentine and they all eat gnocchi at the end of the month with money under the plate.
Cabeza Dura seems to have never been Argentina.
9. They may be facts, but it doesn’t mean that Argentina has a significant over the average hispanic countries Italian input.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It’s not the same to have one single Italian great grandfather and the rest of Spanish/ Native American (creole) like the typical Chilean would than an all Italian ancestry. Your definition of 24 million of Argentines comprises both of them. It means nothing.
Take Angel Di Maria, he does have a Italian surname, but he is typically Creole.
Wow... no Chileans are Piedmontese and Venetians???
@Chicureo...so I have never being to Argentina???
Ask your son in law to check those Coca-Cola bottles.. Ask him which origin does the vast majority of the surnames on them. Spicland.
Most common Italian surnames like Russo, Rossi, Gallo are not even in the most common average Argentine surnames, not even considering their variants.
If one single Spaniard with a surname ending with the “EZ” syllabus had 20 kids with Indian women in 1600 than most input is Spanish as simple as that.
Italians both northern and southern were pretty successful in Australia (mostly northern) and USA (southern).
Most evidence seems to suggest that Italians in Argentina became more hispanic as soon as they arriaved.
Still seeking a first time to be correct. Typical rotting roadkillian behavior. LOL.
Jun 10th, 2015 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0With his own words posted above, Cabeza Dura has proven beyond a doubt that he's never set foot in Argentina: “...it doesn’t mean that Argentina has a significant over the average ... Italian input...”
Jun 10th, 2015 - 10:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0By the way, I was mentioning cities, Piedmont is a region and apparently few Italian Chileans have the distinction Venetian heritage. I used to play bocce at the club where they have a map showing the members family origins.
Check out www.bochas.cl
17.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0LOL moron do you get tired of making this stuff up as you go along. I wonder if you really believe yourself that Im not Argentine.... Ironic that some time ago Paul Cedron said I was Chilean.
“ With his own words posted above, Cabeza Dura has proven beyond a doubt that he's never set foot in Argentina: “...it doesn’t mean that Argentina has a significant over the average ... Italian input...””
It doesn’t
“Italian” regions of Argentina can be described by a imaginary line from Bahia Blanca to Junin & Rufino, then roughly North West to Villa Maria and further to Cordoba Capital, and back east towards San Francisco and then South towards Rosario and eventually back to BsAs. ... And then Mendoza.
The fact that you guys think Argentina is “Italian” like is because you land in BsAs. As soon as you go inland and away from BsAs Province, Cordoba and Santa Fe this drastically changes. Sure they may be the economically dominant and central regions, but not the most of Argentina.
And that is not even counting far lower birth rates of Italians than Creole Spanish ones and immigration from the northern provinces to the slums of BsAs and Rosario.
The first 20 surnames in Argentina are 15% of the entire population and that is not counting 80 rest of Spanish surnames.
@18 Still trying to be right against all the facts?
Jun 11th, 2015 - 08:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0“In 1996, the Italian Argentines were 15.88 million[3] when Argentina’s population was about 34.5 million, meaning that they were 46% of the Argentine population.
Italian settlement in Argentina, along with Spanish settlement, formed the backbone of today's Argentine society. Argentine culture has significant connections to Italian culture in terms of language, customs and traditions.[4]”
Language: Italian immigration from the second half of the 19th century to the beginning of the 20th century made a lasting and significant impact on the intonation of Argentina's vernacular Spanish.
Argentine cuisine has been strongly influenced by Italian cuisine, the typical Argentine diet is a variation on the Mediterranean diet. Italian staple dishes like pizza and pasta are common.
You seem to be confused by the original point. The Italian influence throughout Argentine culture appears to include the penchant for corruption.
#19 Elaine
Jun 11th, 2015 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0We have something in common that Cabeza Dura does not have: we both have been physically present in Argentina. With each of his posts, he exposes himself as a fraud claiming to know the country and yet makes outrageously ignorant comments about Argentines.
It would be plausibly arguable for some very geographically naive and noticeably culturally ignorant visitor that's never been to Italy to not make the Argentinian-Italian connection, but it's implausible. (Even if you watch the movie “THE GODFATHER” you'll also see the same influence of the cultures from Campania, Calabria and Sicily that dominates the Argentine character.) And hey, I'm not anti-Italian like Cabeza Dura. Like I mentioned before, I love playing bocce and dining good Italian food.
Anyone that's ever visited Buenos Aires has probably heard the old saying that: “Argentines are Italians who speak Spanish and think they are British.” They are without a doubt the most disdained group in South America and have long taken pride in their incredible arrogance as a way of covering over their own enormous insecurities about their real identity. They flaunt their Italian ancestry and are obsessed with appearance; they are typically fashionably well dressed in Armani inspired fashion when you see them sipping their expressos at street cafés.
Hey Cabeza Dura, speaking of Argentine telephone book listings: Did did you know that there used to be one for the archbishop of Buenos Aires: Jorge Mario Bergoglio? He denied being Italian to the press when he moved to the Vatican.
19.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Embassies and politicians say stuff like that all the time. I think it was Salmond last year that said that Scotlands descendants are like 200 million all over the world. That would include yours truly and Argentines like Juan Domingo Peron.
Scotland is a country of just 4 to 5 million....
It must come from adding up the immigration input into a American country and multiply it by the birth rates of the receiving country.. It just doesn’t work like that.
Take any list of teams of the B Metropolitan division, Italian surnames are less than 10%. Take the list of fallen in combat in 1982, again they are less than 10% Italian.
Now take a list of doctors, lawyers of BsAs they will make up 50-50 with Spanish ones.
And a clue for you… Pizzas and pasta are all over the world even in countries that had no Italian immigration at all like Chile or Mexico... Italian dishes in Argentina may be actually popularized by the Americans after WWII, I wasn’t at the time but I have my suspicions.
Unfortunately Argentina is a mainly Hispanic country. Italy was the richest nation of Europe for a millennia, and again cities like Venice and Genoa were most important sea faring powers that ruled trade from the Levant and the Middle East to the Mediterranean and into Europe. England is always assumed to be the birth place of capitalism and free trade. Netherlands and Northern Italy did invent them at pretty much the same time England did.
When Spain was plundering the Aztec and Inca empires, the richest nation in Europe was still Italy.
Spanish countries are a joke and a fuck up.
I guess that there is a reason why northern Italy continues to raise the prospect of succession.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0rotting roadkill is one of the worst amalgamations of humanity ever cast because it continues to be almost universally delusional and fails to be accountable to even its own rotting roadkillians. When all the nonsense and rhetoric is stripped away - self-delusion is found to be the cornerstone of perronism. The rotting roadkillians are only the fertile ground where the seed of the pernicious weeds of dishonesty took root to the universal exclusion of veritas.
#19 Elaine
Jun 11th, 2015 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...even in countries that had no Italian immigration at all like Chile.”
Elaine, I think he's caling you a lier...
He's also never visited Argentina and exposed himself with his own incredible ignorance.
OBVIOUSLY “Italian surnames are less than 10% of the list of fallen in combat in 1982.” At the first sign of danger, Italians are notorious to throw down their weapons and surrender.
Another stupid statement: “Now take a list of doctors, lawyers of BsAs they will make up 50-50 with Spanish ones.” “50-50”? You seem to forget the large number of Jewish names in listings for lawyers, like Albero Nisman, Viviana Fein, Héctor Timerman, etc... (Who all are lawyers.) as far as doctors, you'd think half the country was Jewish.
“When Spain was plundering...the richest nation in Europe was still Italy.” Sorry, Italy was not formed until 1861 my boy. (Read some post Roman history.)
It seems the boy is in completely NON-subject delusional rant: “Scotland is a country of just 5 million” and Ireland about 6 million, yet an estimated 140 million people worldwide claim Irish or Scot descent; which includes the first president of Chile and also our first admiral. In Chile we revere Bernardo O'Higgins as our military hero, in Argentina it's Benito Mussolini.
23.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes you are a brown little Chilean descended from a degenarate Spaniard soldier and a Indian woman raped to ad nauseaum with a low IQ that thinks that talking complete gibberish, off topic nonesence and the hinde leg off a donkey is going to do the trick.
If Im saying that Argentina is not predominantely Italian then far less Chile would be you dumbarse!!
Deal with it. Its what Latam is.
Just because some Italians are loud about themselves in the early 1900s and made a habbit of self proclaiming themselves the reason why Argentina was the richest country at the time, it doesnt mean to say Argentina is a Italian country.
And Nismans wive is Arroyo Salgado (Spanish), Viviana Fein's boss Gils Carbo Spanish) who appointed another Jew for political reasons in order to white wash Hector Timerman's boss Cristina Fernandez (Spanish)
“When Spain was plundering...the richest nation in Europe was still Italy.” Sorry, Italy was not formed until 1861 my boy. (Read some post Roman history.)“
Listen cunt, Italy as a region/country/entity or whatever you wish to call it was the richest country in Europe 2 milleniums ago, and then back in 1500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_vJfIy1wpw
And what Argentina & Uruguay did have unlike Chile and the rest of Latams is far more White Spaniards like Basques, Catalans, Asturians that migrated with the Italians with their families from Europe, rather than just crossing with Native and Creole women, that is why Argentina loos more ”white”
@23 Hahahaha. CD2 is true to form. He is wrong, has made a stupid statement in the face of hard facts and is embarrassed. He responds by trying to argue black is white and exposes all his shameful prejudices all wrapped up in infantile name-calling.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The largest ethnic group in Argentina is Italian. That is a fact. The Italian influence is evident to anyone visiting Buenos Aires. It does appear that most of the wealthy people are of Italian decent and have typical northern Italian appearance. Plenty of blonde-haired people in the designer shops. You have to wonder why Italians are on his extensive hate list.
25.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you scratch Chicureos back even though you know he is talking absolute lies when he says I have never being to Argentina...???
Listen fat arse you lost from the very start when you talked about Italian “ethnic group” There is no such thing as a Italian ethnic group only... There is Meditteranean and Alpine like lovely Annalisa Scarrone.
You are just a fat arse old laddy that went along stuffing in BsAs center restaurants and came to the conclusion that Argentina is a predominantely Italian heritage country because the owner of the place said so or your friends said so....
I have travelled this country extensively and with pretty much detail I explained with geographical reasons which is the Italian sector which is pretty limited to th Humid Pampas.
What only thing Chicureo got right is that Argentines love to potray their italianess over their Spanish roots and I can see why, but he cant forsee that Argentina is non italian because that leaves Chile even less so.
He is the one that keeps on making this retarded distinction of South Italians vs Northern ones and sais that Northern Italians are the ones that went to Chile and Southern ones to Argentina...
“It does appear that most of the wealthy people are of Italian decent and have typical northern Italian appearance. Plenty of blonde-haired people in the designer shops. ”
Of course Italians have a better IQ than hispanics..Who told you that I hate Italians.. Im actually in thier defence since you assume that corruption in Argentina is linked with Italian DNA. Thats exactly how this conversation started old fat arse!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@26 I can only assume you resemble Maradona's physique as you are obsessed with calling everyone else fat.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't mention DNA. I am discussing cultural inculcation and inclination.
I have travelled the length and breadth of Argentina and lived there for long periods. I was not using my personal experience but quoting FACTS to you. You can deny them but they remain FACT.
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
Jun 11th, 2015 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine has definitely a clear picture as of the cultural makeup of both Argentina and Chile. (We Chileans are biased somewhat regarding our Andean neighbors, but only an ignorant fool would claim what CD says.)
Cabeza Dura has certainly never visited Buenos Aires, much less “travelled the country extensively”
The Italian influence over Argentina is dominant. (He's obviously never had the privilege of visiting Santiago either, as Chile has 600 thousand Italian-Chileans.)
Depending on who you quote, roughly over half the Argentine population's DNA is of Italian ancestry. (In Uruguay it's about a third.)
The country that's given us Italian-Argentine Lionel Messi and Javier Zanetti...and our troll tries to deny the truth that he's been caught telling ignorant lies. He's so embarrassed and mad that he's been outed, he's resorted to profanity.
Cabeza Dura completely ignorant of history as well. “Italy ...was the richest European country in 1500”. Actually bright boy, What is now southern Italy was owned by the Spanish Royal family.
The revered Argentine general Manuel Belgrano's family was from Genoa. Even Juan Domingo Peron, was of mixed ancestry including from Sardinia. Peron studied Italian alpine military tactics, was educated at the University of Turin and became an admirer of the Fascist system of government of Benito Mussolini. Peron was overthrown in a military coup led by Italian-Argentine General Eduardo Lonardi followed by Arturo Frondizi who's family came from Umbria, followed by another Italian-Argentine followed by another Italian-Argentine Jose Maria Guido, succeeded by Arturo Umberto Illia, whose family came from Lombardy. Later Italian-Argentine Raul Alberto Lastiri and Italian-Argentine General Roberto Eduardo and General Leopoldo Galtieri who's parents were poor Italian immigrants.
Mauricio Macri, who's father is from Italy will most likely be the next president of Argentina.
27.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How many times do I have to explain you why that what you claim are hardly any facts!!!!?????? LOL
I dont resemble Maradonas physique at all!!!
You are talking about DNA when you claimed first the words “Italian ethnic group” There is no such thing as Italian ethnic group...and that is why Argentina was corrupt. That was your case all along
Argentina is a poor and backward country because its a mainly Hispanic country.
Look fat arse... If you do a DNA test on Argentines you will find mythocondrial DNA, the one that its transmited from mothers to daughters, that is AFRICAN.
But you cant possibly say Argentina has any cultural links with Subsaharan Africans. Even I should carry mithocondrial DNA thats the same one that somebody in North Africa fighting for AQIM does..
Now that makes me a Muslim terrorist ???
Population changes...frecuancies of aleles change, people migrate, different groups of people have different birth rates than others...
That famous saying Argentines are Italians, that talk in Spanish and dress up or go to English schools is so 1900s. Stand outside a public school in Middle Argentina and see if you spot any bright eyed blonde.
“I have travelled the length and breadth of Argentina and lived there for long periods”
If that was true, and instead of stuffing at restaurants and going to tourist destinations, and would have worked here and done real non touristical traveling you would realize the distinction of what it is called “patria gringa” and can more a less distinguish roughly the same geographical polygon I described.
You can have Calle Italia in any Formoseño town, doesn't mean Italians traveled there.
Italian input into Argentina has being widely exagerated in order to feel distinct from Chileans and other Hispanics in the hood.
Get it now ???
Gosh , why do I waste my time with stupid people that cant stand reality and fact??!
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA!
Jun 11th, 2015 - 07:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I dont resemble Maradonas physique at all!!!” ...I'll make a bet that your not that fit and not as smart as Maradona either...
Despite your denial, for some reason millions of people describe themselves as being “ethnic Italian.” Especially in Argentina... Most real Italians also define if their origin is from Rome to the north. You obviously never saw the Godfather movie either or you'd know the Mafia come from the areas of Naples and Palermo. Thankfully, most Chilean-Italians trace their ancestry from the north. (Imagine what happens when an Italian mamma discovers her Genovese son is dating beautiful Sicilian girl...)
The actual reason “Argentina is a poor and backward country” is because its a mainly Peronist politically dominated mess ruined by mostly Southern Italian politicians. When it was a dominantly controlled Hispanic country a century ago, it was one of the 10 wealthiest countries in the world.
“If you do a DNA test on Argentines you will find...DNA that its transmited from mothers to daughters, that is AFRICAN.” CD's ignorance is staggering.
“Now that makes me a Muslim terrorist ???” We have no idea of your origin, but it's certainly not South American. Are you African?
“Italian input into Argentina has being widely exagerated in order to feel distinct from Chileans and other Hispanics...” Actually Argentines have long taken pride in their arrogance as a way of covering over their own insecurities and flaunt their Italian ancestry and culture because they think they are superior to their neighbors.
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA!
By the way, for everyone else, if you want to see stunning beautiful blondes with blue eyes outside of Buenos Aires, take a trip over to Bariloche. Those as well as the Chilean-German girls just across the Andes there are remarkable.
And CD2 managed to bring up Muslims too.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CD2 They are not MY facts. I am quoting facts at you.
Italian immigration to Argentina began in the 19th century, just after Argentina won its independence from Spain. Argentine culture has significant connections to Italian culture, in terms of language, customs and traditions.[9]
Italians became firmly established throughout Argentina, with the greatest concentrations in the city of Buenos Aires, Buenos Aires Province, Santa Fe Province, Entre Rios Province, Córdoba Province, Tucumán Province, La Pampa Province, and the nearby country of Uruguay.
There are many reasons for the Italian immigration to Argentina: Italy was enduring economic problems caused mainly by the unification of the Italian states into one nation. The country was impoverished, unemployment was rampant, certain areas were overpopulated, and Italy was subject to significant political turmoil. Italians saw in Argentina a chance to build for themselves a brand new life.
The Italian population in Argentina is the second largest in the world, by numbers, outside of Italy,[10] some 25 million people. Italians form a majority of the population of Argentina and neighbouring Uruguay as up to two-third have some Italian background.
Argentine elites diminished the Spanish culture from their culture in the newly independent country and created Argentine culture.
Between 1857 and 1940 more than 2 million Spanish people emigrated to Argentina, mostly from Galicia, Basque Country, Asturias, Cantabria in northern Spain, Catalonia in northeast Spain, and also from Andalusia in southern Spain.
Next time you visit BsAs you will see the growing Chinese population.
They also have the largest Jewish population in South America, 8% of the population is of German extraction. Menem is of Syrian heritage and Cabeza Dura has never visited Argentina.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At one time BsAs had the largest Jewish population outside of Israel after New York. In fact the original Gauchos were Russian Jewish immigrants. Just look at their traditional clothing and you can see the similarities.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A lot of the Syrian immigrants were sent to the Tucuman province.
It may be that CD2 has never ventured far from home, wherever that is.
#33 Elaine
Jun 11th, 2015 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well you put him in his place after he exposed himself as never being in Argentina.
Apparently I'm a typical “brown little Chilean descended from a degenarate [sic] Spaniard soldier and a Indian woman”. Imagine that, and yet they still allowed me to attend the Grange School just like my father.
It's always amusing for first time foreigners visits to Chile. In our navy in Valpariso we host visitors and students from several countries and I've been personally asked more than once in what part of the UK I was born. One American naval officer was was blown away by the number of Italian, German, British, French, Croatian and Palestinian surnames on sailor name badges.
Spanish surnames obviously dominate Chile, especially Basque, but the Mapuche women didn't seem to want much to do with the Spanish colonists that first arrived.
This little spat with CD was interesting as I never knew that even Juan Peron had Italian heritage.
@34 What is strange is that CD2 doesn't seem to have access to the most basic information about Argentina. Either he can't research or prefers to remain ignorant.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 10:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Given the history of Valparaiso and its significance as a port pre-Panama Canal, it is no wonder it has such a multicultural population. Walking around the cerros you can see the old sea captain's houses have hints of architecture from many European countries.
Have you guys a Idea of genetics, of Statistics... have you ever studied them?? Clearly not, and you are talking out of your arses...
Jun 11th, 2015 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chicureo you are the perfect example of a low IQ Spic...
That is for sure!!! no Italian, Jewish, French, German blood in you whatsoever you are a throwback.
Example.. You just said
“Actually Argentines have long taken pride in their arrogance as a way of covering over their own insecurities and flaunt their Italian ancestry and culture because they think they are superior to their neighbors. ”... Exactly what I said retard, and that doesnt make Argentines Italian... gosh what a fool!!!
The richest part of Italy was NORTH... VENICE, MILAN, GEONA, FLORENCE were the Spaniards and the Pope failed to take control over were the richest hubs in the world....
No matter how much gold and silver your degenerate ancestors plundered from the Americas, Northern Italy, Netherlands, France and England just beated you and became richer and more advanced.
Do you get that retard?
Now the fact is Chile has had no Italian imigration at all. Not even Elaine's the Wikiwoman sources provide Chile as a source of Italian immigrants.
Just piss off you are brown small and hispanic. I really dont care where you think Im from.
And besides retard, the US had the same proportion in fact slightly more southern Italians than Argentina did.
The girl Im seeing now is gourgous and exeption for nowadays and her surname is Lombard/Ligurian.
Only Australia had unike Northern imigration from Italy in 1840s as they were running away from Austrian-Hungarian onslaght.
Elaine... For the 100002 time....
They are NOT FACTS, Its a piece you colected from wikipedia and from a source “Italianos en Argentina” that is no longer existant.
In genetics populations are not studied like that at all.
What needs to be done is do a extensive study and profile alele frecuencies with both Italy vs Argentina and Argentina vs Latam countries.
@36 hahaha, you cannot accept you are wrong. That poor girl you claim to be seeing won't hang around for long when she realises you think you are always right.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are wrong, wrong, wrong. You opinion vs. reality. Argentina has a huge Italian ethnic population. It is more Italian than Spanish.
“The girl Im seeing now is gourgous and exeption for nowadays” You are such a twat.
37. Elaine “da ra ra ra ra Wikiwoman” .... with out wikipiding do you actually know what a allele frecuency is??
Jun 11th, 2015 - 10:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Didnt think so...
37. CD2 is always incorrect. It's the rotting roadkill way.
Jun 11th, 2015 - 10:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@38 Still wrong and you don't have the balls to admit it. Tell me, have you ever really been to Buenos Aires? Or Argentina?
Jun 11th, 2015 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You must be paying that 'gorgeous' 'exceptional' woman. No woman with brains and self-respect would hang around a misogynist like you.
Elaine,
Jun 11th, 2015 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are correct about Valparaiso. The British dominated the port a century ago and even introduced afternoon tea, called onces here. Our slang word cachai is from the British in Valparaiso asking Chileans, “Did you catch that?” And yes, the architecture; The Queen Victoria Hotel there, now the CSAV office building, is where my great grandparents were married
I might add no Mapuche either, but I would be proud if I did. They say that something like 700 thousands of Chileans are of English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh ancestry and I'm one of them. My Scottish great grandfather settled in the hills of Valapariso and enrolled his son in the British Mackay School. My mother has Irish, French-Catalan, Austrian and Castile heritage.
Now for a short history lesson for CABEZA DURA WHO HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
In the fifteenth century, Milan, Venice, and Florence were extremely wealthy city states, but their fortunes were nothing compared to the empires of Portugal and Spain. Amerigo Vespucci was from Florence and Christopher Columbus was from Genova, but they both were in employ by the Crown of Castile, who also was the owner of the southern region of Italy. (My ancestors meanwhile were leaning how to build pirate ships and prey on the Spanish gold laden galleons.)
“the fact is Chile has had no Italian imigration [sic]at all.” Interesting... would you contact the club members at the Italian Sports Club in Santiago and advise them they're a fraud. http://www.stadioitaliano.cl.
Congratulations on “The girl Im seeing now ...Lombard/Ligurian.” I imagine you've been spending time on an Italian porn site and the transvestite you've been chatting with is more likely a deceitful Sicilian wanting your mother's credit card number. (Be careful, mom might take away your computer games.)
Maybe you can explain to the travesti “What needs to be done is do a extensive study and profile alele frecuencies with both Italy vs Argentina and Argentina vs Latam countries.”
Except that The Economist charter I provided proves you wrong. Italy was the richest country in Europe in the 1500s. Not Spicland.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 01:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0Soooo....
I had no idea that porn sites provided those services.
I met her at the gym, she is slim, curly ash brown hair, lovely face, great body and tits... And as far as I know she doesnt have a penus.
Plantel de Chile
http://www.bdfa.com.ar/plantel-Chile-1129.html
Italian Surnames ; Rabello, Gazale, Toselli 3/49= 6%
British surnames; Seymour 1/49= 2%
Balcan: Biskupovic, Mirosevic 2/49=4%
French: Beausejour 1/49=2%
Hispanic & Mapuche 42/49= 85%
You are Hispanic/ Native American Brown country.... Deal with it, turd.
#42 CD
Jun 12th, 2015 - 03:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
“...as far as I know she doesnt have a penus [sic]” is very reassuring. I hope you haven't given her your mom's credit card number yet...
Listen as a friend, I like you... Don't trust that untruthful Elaine character who been making all those silly preposterous claims that Argentina has been heavily influenced by Italians as we both know is false.
And yes, I'm very “Hispanic” which is a made up word by Gringos, which I think you are. And yes, you are completely right, Mapuches names make up 85% of the telephone book here in Santiago.
Oh by the way, let us know what happens when you find out if your dream transvestite has a male appendage or not... Should be interesting...
Ciao
@42 You are a very confused person. Your prejudices and xenophobia are limitless. Reminds me of TTT.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 08:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you resisting the fact that Argentina is predominantly Italian in influence? Why does it offend you?
Elaine,
Jun 12th, 2015 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is certainly an issue regarding Spanish, Italian and Indian races that doesn't make sense, but he's definitely infuriated that he's been outed as a fraud.
I kinda get the impression he's an adolescent living in the USA.
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
@45 And remember his rants about all Muslims and derogatory remarks about women? He is a seriously messed up boy.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0You have to wonder why on earth he thinks he is superior to anyone. Revolting.
Elaine,
Jun 12th, 2015 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Our boy certainly has an enormous amount of insecurities, childish insults about your physique, allegations of my racial mix and intelligence and an ignorant bias against both the Portuguese and Spanish empires..
Then he goes into great detail about his imaginary girlfriend...
What was really revealing was that I assumed from his previous posts that he had some connection with Argentina, but it's now clear he's never been to even Buenos Aires.
On the other hand, your posts in the past reflect reality. I enjoy your observations and respect your opinion because obviously you've been where you say. On the other hand, CD after a few comments exposed himself as an idiot...
It was too easy to rip him apart.
Have a good day!
LOL, hilarious!!
Jun 12th, 2015 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Cry me a river Elaine [da ra ra ra ra Wikiwomaaaaan] because Im so naughty
So
A teen in the USA that challenges you to provide comprehensive studies of allele frequencies of Argentina vs Italy and Argentina vs other Latam countries...
A teen in the USA that has defined geographically what is the Italian zone of influence in Argentina...
Why cant you accept that your ideas and pre concepts are a century old??
Argentina is not restaurants in downtown.
Native American ancestry in Argentina is 56% and the vast majority of them have Spanish surnames....very close to CFKs 2011 54% may I add.
That leaves you with 44% pure Europeans and others. Of that Perhaps Italians should make the majority, but then white Spanish would have crossed over plus Germans, Jews and Croatians and French combined should wash a lot more.
Argentines of mostly Italian ascendance should be like 20-25% of the total Argentine population.
Its a significant number, but it doesn’t make Argentina a non Hispanic country to a European one. And birth rates of poor people have skyrocketed in the last few years with AUH. Give it 20 years and BsAs city center would look like Brown little Chile…
If the Italians as other European immigrants are guilty of anything was bring Marxism, unionism, socialism when they settled in super rich Creole Argentina which would breed the seeds of Peronism.
But overall their contribution was positive.
If Latam as a whole is a failure is because of its Hispanic and native roots and culture.
“Viveza criolla” means Creole cunning. And creoles are natives that descend from a Spanish rapist and a miss fortunate Indian woman.
Maybe Italians are corrupt, but they are far more smart, innovative and hard workers than Hispanics are. If half the country was Italian we wouldn't be in this mess.
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
Jun 12th, 2015 - 12:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd rather respond to a rock.
(Oh, but do let us know what happens when you find out if your dream transvestite has a male appendage.)
You would rather not respond because CABEZA DURA te cerro el orto chileno mugriento y alcahuete.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CIAO!
For the record:
Jun 12th, 2015 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CABEZA DURA uses Google Translate to communicate in “Spanish” has never once BEEN TO ARGENTINA!
CABEZA DURA IS A FRAUD. HE THINKS LEO MESSI IS OF SPANISH HERITAGE.
Whatever you say Shilote pedorro con olor a pedo de mono y lame orto de la vieja lechona esta... But please stop screaming, just because you shout and repeat it like a infant it doesnt make it so...
Jun 12th, 2015 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CD “Tell me, have you ever really been to Buenos Aires?”
Jun 12th, 2015 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Answer: CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA!
You've been caught by Elaine telling outrageous lies about a place you've never visited.
Fact: “The Italian population in Argentina is the second largest in the world, by numbers, outside of Italy, some 25 million people. Italians form a majority of the population of Argentina and neighbouring Uruguay as up to two-third have some Italian background.”
Every time you deny this, you look like an ignorant, untruthful fool.
Wow “Give it 20 years and BsAs city center would look like Brown little Chile… ” What a vile person you are, CD2. What makes you so racist, xenophobic, misogynist and have delusions of superiority?
Jun 12th, 2015 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you are right, Chicureo, he is not Argentine and doesn't live in Argentina. I have no idea why he exposes his vile beliefs here.
#54 Elaine
Jun 12th, 2015 - 02:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well the other observation is what's wrong with being brown? Having a light brown completion, dark hair and brown eyes is bad?
Chile is not full of Nordic blue eyed blondes, but instead a diverse mixed European mestizo mix that's well educated and progressive. The southern cone of South America is similar. Mapuche Indians make up something like 5% of our population and they send their children to school.
Chile currently is receiving a fairly large number of other South American nationalities (especially Venezuelans) because of our progressive economy and government. The only grave problem we have right now is trying to explain to the Italian Sports Club that they're families never emigrated from Italy. ..
54.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I dont see what is so xenophobic about that, the average Chilean is small and brown... Its actually you that seems so repulsed about that idea so it’s you the one who is being racist. I’m just stating fact.
Have you being to Retiro station at 6:00 am in the morning, have you being to La Matanza ??? Have you seeing young mothers in Argentine public hospitals flooding with heaps of filthy kids that will never be able to educate themselves and grow up in a healthy enviorment.
Its a matter of genetics and human phisiology and demographics. Argentina ethnically will look more like Peru and Chile in 20 years.
I know this is very un PC for an old British overweight fart arse like yourself. But alleles do exist, difference in IQs between races, ability to do sports and other skills, natural selection, biological effiency (the ability of certain genotypes to pass their genes to the next generation) and everything else exist in mankind just as they exist in animals and plants. Its just nature.
Please spare me your PC bullshit. I live in the real world
Racist bigotry is right up your alley apparently...
Jun 12th, 2015 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We're in Chile getting a fair number of “blacks” from Columbia, Venezuela and Brazil and certainly a significant number of mestizos as well. Demographics change all the time. We in Chile however have been developing a super race project where our dominant northern Italian gene pool will eventually result in most of our inhabitants having the appearance similar of Frank Sinatra and Sophia Loren. This is our secret strategy as both Peru and Bolivia have had territorial ambitions to invade us, so it's important for our soldiers to be able to differentiate nationalities before shooting...
Sadly, Argentina had a similar strategy that unfortunately failed because they discovered that their were few inhabitants with Italian heritage, and the majority of the ones that were originated in Florence and Venice.
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
So how's that hot romance with the Sicilian Transvestite going?
Just out of interest, about 87% of the small farmers of the Río Negro and Neuquén valley are of Italian descent. I don't know if this hlps with the above argument or not!!!!!!
Jun 12th, 2015 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@56 Is is offensive because you used it as a insult. Just as you did here, “ you are the perfect example of a low IQ Spic.” and here, “Just piss off you are brown small and hispanic.”
Jun 12th, 2015 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have some repulsive views. Do you know TTT? You two have a lot in common.
@55 “Well the other observation is what's wrong with being brown? Having a light brown completion, dark hair and brown eyes is bad? ” No. Not in my eyes but CD2 seems to think it is.
59.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Really, Elaine it was Chicureo all along the one who was showing a massive inferiority complex. He all along came up with this nonsense of South Italians for Argentina and North Italians to Chile.. Which is absolute lies and crap. But anyhow..
Indeed I called him a low IQ Spic.
Indeed I said Chile is brown and small.
And the next thing he does in the following comment is extensively explain to you that he has no Mapuche blood line, he highlights his more North European ancestry... and carefully omits his Creole Hispanic side...
Did you ask him what his ancestry was?? It’s obvious he does have a inferiority complex like all Chileans do. Of course I will exploit it. Because there is racism in all of us to different degrees…You are also racist, I have just proven it.
But there is a huge gap between acknowledging differences between races and peoples than actually sending people to gas chambers because they have certain.
Seriously he does have a low IQ, so do you.
There was heaps of fascinating cientific studies of IQs and crime correlated with race in the USA some years ago that have being put to the shade for being too disturbing for PC lunatics like yourself.
@60 I haven't noticed any inferiority complex in Chicureo but I guess next to your towering superiority complex it may appear so to you.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only thing you prove in your posts is how vile you are. Not for the first time have you revealed the nasty depths of your twisted prejudices.
61. Of course, Im suuuuuuch a nasty and vile guy.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine. Your initial supposition that Argentine corruption is due because of Italian influence has being completely destroyed in pieces, not only because you have consistently failed to provide any proof that Argentina is a mainly of Italian descent..And what I mean by that is a real professional genetic study with allele frequencies rather than crap of Wikipedia. But because you have failed to address Argentine overall Hispanic ascendancy, and the proof is in the vast overlapping of Spanish surnames that total like 11 Million ppl a quarter of the population, and that is not considering all the other Spanish ones.
Hardly have I ever met a Argentine that claims full Italian descent. If Spain would claim what the Italian embassy does then Spanish ascendancy should reach more than 90% of the entire population.
Not only that because there is a racist and prejudicial your OWN initial suposition
Your hidden thesis relies that
Italians are corrupt---→Italians are mainly Argentinas “ethinic group” --→ Argentines are corrupt
Is Italy more corrupt than the average Hispanic country?? It isn't. In fact its far more developed, safe and historically far more achieved.
Is Italy more corrupt than the average African or Middle Eastern country or Russia??
Ohh well that is a far to un politically correct question is it, but you assume together with Chicureo that Italians have to be corrupt because you have seeing the Godfather movies and the Untouchables.
And you call me prejudiced and racist … ????
Go f... yourself
@62 No, I didn't say and I never mentioned genetics at all. I recounted something some Italians said to me over dinner in Milan this last weekend. They regarded corruption as normal in Italy claiming to be experts at it. I then wondered if the Argentine accused of corruption turned himself in in Italy because it would not be considered such a big issue there.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You stated that Italians were not the problem but “Spanish and indian DNA, not Italian”
I never mentioned DNA or genetics. I commented on the similarities in culture. Anyone ever having visited Buenos Aires can see the Italian influence on the culture. They are the largest ethnic group in Argentina.
YOU referred back to DNA again claiming Italians have a higher IQ than the Spanish and other nonsense and once again I corrected you by saying:
“I didn't mention DNA. I am discussing cultural inculcation and inclination.”
You are ridiculous and incapable of making an argument. You seem to mistake the ability to use profanity with having intelligence. Nasty, silly, little man.
“I never mentioned DNA or genetics. ”
Jun 12th, 2015 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“They [Italians] are the largest ethnic group in Argentina.”
Ohhh God, you are a hopeless RETARD.
@64 I was talking about cultural influence. Inculcation. From primary socialisation onwards. Too difficult for you to understand?
Jun 12th, 2015 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Silly, little boy.
Hey Elaine.. Lets do something bring me a study that shows correlation of Western Australia, Naples, New York, Rosario Argentina, San Ramon de la Nueva Orán Salta Argentina, Santiago de Chile and Cape town South Africa with the level corruption and incidence of Italian imigration in these places and allele frecuencies, have it done a test to see if it holds statistical evidence...
Jun 12th, 2015 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Errrr Nooooope forget it...Its like talking to a rock.
The only thing I understand is that you are complete imbecile, a fool and a talker...
Who is the poor idiot that pays your salary other than the tax payer is beyond me..
FUCK, WHAT A RETARD!!!!!
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
Jun 12th, 2015 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine, he's in a meltdown.
Actually I've been very open about my ethnic mix and education. I'm afraid my accuser is the one that's not being open about his origin and nationality.
Most European immigrants did not intermarry with the native peoples here, in part because the Mapuche women were not very friendly to the idea.
Many of our national heroes were Irish, Basque, Spanish, Scot, English and French.
(Pinochet, Allamand and Bachelet are all French names.) The wealthiest family in Chile is Croat and the largest retailer is German. Chile also has the largest Palestinian population in South America. They're almost all Christians.
Italy was not unified as a country until 1861 and anyone with knowledge of the country will tell you there is an enormous difference between Sicilians and Genovese. That's not racism, it's just fact.
Argentina has also a diversified mix including a large Welsh colony, but the country is completely dominated by Italian-Argentines, of which most trace their roots back to the southern region of Italy that was once controlled by the Crown of Castille.
The correct thesis:
Southern Italians are generally corrupt---→Southern Italians dominate Argentine society--→ Argentines are screwed
vs.
Northern Italians are industrious and hard working---→Northern Italians contribute to the cultural harmony of Chilean society--→ Santiago has very good Italian restaurants and the waiters don't overcharge on your check.
The corruption index for 2014 ranks Chile 22nd, Italy 69th and Argentina 107th out of the 177 countries assessed.
Anyway, he's incapable of even answering what's wrong with being brown? Having a light brown completion, dark hair and brown eyes is bad? ” What about having a fair complexion and blue eyes? What's the crime? He ignorantly pretends to know Argentina, boosts about an imaginary girlfriend, spews profanity and is unable to communicate in Spanish....
@66 Hahaha! Back to that jealousy about my work again. It is not my fault that you are incapable of securing well-paid and interesting work. I find it very easy so the problem must be you.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And it is not my fault that you are incapable of understanding the strength of cultural influence and inculcation.
Go on, swear again, it is the only talent you have.
68. Yeah, but the thing is I have dignity...
Jun 12th, 2015 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So pass, Im not very comfortable with spending my youth under the office desk of a politician or another bureaucrat in order to become a fat arse traveller living off the tax payer.
You go girl.
@69 There you again with your misogynist remarks. In your twisted mind the only way a woman can be as successful as me is to sleep with men. Can you not hear yourself? Foolish boy. Your attitude sucks and that is why you are such a failure.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@67 Yes, another of his meltdowns; he has quite a temper. You know, he sounds like a walking Daily Mail reader so I would not write off him being British. Do you remember him displaying his Islamophobia and how upset he was about Muslims in the UK? My Argentine friends never give that a thought.
He is a social misfit, that is for sure.
70.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a complete RETARD ... Nowbody can possibly pay you for your skills in the private world. Im pretty certain you have bend over more than once.
Besides you said it yourself
“You must be paying that 'gorgeous' 'exceptional' woman. No woman with brains and self-respect would hang around a misogynist like you.”
You have implied that the girl is dating me is a whore thats only with me in exchange for money..
So why would you say that??
Well when you spit upwards it must only mean something...
@71 I told you before that I have never been paid by any 'tax-payer' (very DM comment from you). Why does it puzzle you so much that a woman can be successful while you are such a failure? If you are searching for an answer it is because you are a thoroughly unpleasant person with nasty prejudices. You will always be a failure.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No self-respecting woman would hang a round a nasty misogynist like you but, let's be honest here, there is no woman. You made her up.
JOSE ORIBE HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
Jun 12th, 2015 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine,
You're a class act and you've exposed him for his
Thanks to another another reader, the identity of our little insecure troll, that make ridiculous comments on several diverse subjects, is José Oribe. He's never been to Argentina and apparently still living with his mother. It's not even clear if he finished his secondary education. Perhaps José can update us on that...
@73 Where is he from, just out of interest?
Jun 12th, 2015 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Elaine,
Jun 12th, 2015 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He's living in the United States.
(Notice that he's become incredibly silent...)
@75 Ah, O.K. I don't need any personal details about him as it is irrelevant to this forum. Besides, his posts show everything we need to know about him. I was just curious because he sounds very Daily Mail-reading, armchair racist. It does explain his lack of knowledge about Argentina.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0JOSE ORIBE-CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
Jun 12th, 2015 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with Elaine that your personal information will not be outed, but you should try to be more civil and not use profanity when posting.
Ohhh gosh LOL!... Have your made up your minds already?? Im Jose Uribe, that lives with his mother, ( I like Uribe former prez of Colombia) or some armchair DM reader???
Jun 12th, 2015 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I mean its great.... A old cow paid by the tax payer to stuff her arse in restaurants and cocktail parties and a moronic Chilean officer with a inferiority complex discovered what Argentines in this forum for over two years failed to establish.... that Im not argentine!!!
I feel like the bad guy that is discovered in Scooby-Doo cartoons at the end of the episode.. like the cops are all round him and they take the Dracula mask off the villain
“Ohhhh no my diabolical plans would have worked if it hadn't being by da ra ra ra ra ra Wikiwoman and her pet Noble Chicureo”“
hahahahahahaha!!! Hilarious
Dear God, and these retarded fucks scratch each others backs, because they fail.
Exactly what is your area of expertise, business, law, accounts, science, insurance?? What??? I have no problem with women being succesful with their own skills. But you would not be over secretive about it if you would do something entirely private not government related..
And you are a complete RETARD that says in a same comment
”I never mentioned DNA or genetics. ”
“They [Italians] are the largest ethnic group in Argentina.”
And if you happen to be private paid....
@78 Scooby Doo? Did they ever show that in Argentina?
Jun 12th, 2015 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Since you love researching try looking at nature vs. nurture. I am talking about cultural inculcation not DNA. It really is not that hard.
None of your business what I do for a living. Why are you so desperate to know? You have been obsessing about it for a very long time. Why is that? Jealousy?
JOSE ORIBE-CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
Jun 12th, 2015 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Very sick ignorant little man, your “DNA” racist and profane rants are all over the WEB. You seem to really hate Italians, Jews, Spaniards...
Ciao
@80 And muslims. And women.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He is a thoroughly nasty man with a huge chip on his shoulder. How does anyone become so full of hatred?
Awful lot of posts about not having Italians in Argentina.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny almost everyone I met was Italian
I wonder where I lived for so long
I do miss the gnocchi every once in a while.
79.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And what would you know about nurturing?? You are an old single unpleasant bureaucrat in menopause, round as a balloon that’s writing to me Friday night in the UK or Italy at what 10.30 pm??? but that loves to call on anyone that disagrees with her a misogynist, antisocial misfit somebody that hates.. Be me, Think, TTT, Voice even other Brits like Chris, it doesn’t matter… You know that you can pick on anyone here you will always have a white knight coming to your aid like Chicureo whom poor fellow felt sorry for him explaining his ancestry to you...
How can it be he has a date with a gorgeous girl this evening, she must be paid or she must not exist.. ..??
See thing is... I know your type of women that loves picking on the weaker kid on the play ground, had a youth and use it to climb with powerful men….
But its now over. And you may fool others but not me.
@83 Hahahaha. You cannot help yourself can you? You are the 'weaker kid' now are you? All that bile and hatred you spew and you are the victim because a woman put you in your place? I guess you have been rejected a lot.
Jun 12th, 2015 - 09:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know nothing about me other than I am a woman.The rest is pure fantasy. You obviously like to weave a picture of a hate figure so you can feel better about your own inadequacies. Live it up. When you wake up tomorrow you will still be a failure.
Elaine and YB
Jun 12th, 2015 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reading his other media posts: Jose hates the Spanish conquerors of the New World because his heritage apparently is Hispanic” with a small mix from southern Italy. He really seems to have conflict with the distinction of north vs. south as well as Italian corruption.
He has serious problems of insecurity with women and is incredibly racist.
Sad...
85
Jun 13th, 2015 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What other media posts...?
Care to share a link....
All I'm seeing is Guitars....
I never support CD, but this doesn't sound like him at all...he is more anti British than anti Spanish and he has a French connection and posts more for amusement and argument than a deep seated hate...
I'm not convinced at all...
#86 Voice
Jun 13th, 2015 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I personally do not feel comfortable “outing” CD because the civility of the forum would be detrimental for many to openly debate.
José Oribe, known as Cabaza Dura was exposed by Elaine for his incredibly ignorant posts that Argenina was not influenced strongly by Italians.
(I'll let you make your own conclusion.)
One of the other posters here at Mercopress that has my email, sent me an extensive bio regarding Cabeza Dura which fits like a glove.
It's irritating to encounter profanity, but the continuous racism he spew is disgusting.
@Chicureo
Jun 13th, 2015 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I dont know if you are completely retarded or you think people here are as stupid as you are and are go to buy this idiotic cospiracy theory that Im not Argentine and Im living in some basement in the USA..
“You seem to really hate Italians, Jews, Spaniards...”
You are getting warm, warmer, hot....
Go on make a complete idiot of yourself.
Is this the quality of officers Chile had?? Damn had a war broke up in the 78 you would have ended with a rifle up yours...
@87 His identity in the real world is somewhat irrelevant. We are not likely to encounter him in real life and anonymity is preferable when one considers some of the topics here and some of the crazy-arsed people that might be reading it. A lot of us live in or visit Argentina on a regular basis. (Many more pretend to).
Jun 13th, 2015 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CD2 has some pretty nasty views and if he chooses to post them here and, in particular, direct them at me, I am going to challenge him. This is nothing new, he has posted some pretty despicable views here in the past. He thinks he can win an argument by being as offensive as possible. It never works but only reveals more of himself. We can only speculate why any person would be so filled with hatred towards …… well, the list is endless. But luckily we can ignore him or not, but he has to live with himself every single day. It can't be pleasant.
I introduced the topic of conversation I had with some Italians last weekend and put it up for discussion here. CD2 turned it into something vile. Who knows what tipped him over the edge? Who cares?
89. You're describing quite a few posters on this board.
Jun 13th, 2015 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you noticed the Klingon's tone lately? He's gone off the deep end.
89.
Jun 13th, 2015 - 01:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Orrrr excuse me menaspausic Briget Jones, but isn't the following more simple..... You can get completely owned as to the exaggerated Italian input in Argentina, as Argentina is not only restaurants in downtown BsAs. Its something you can’t really back up.
Completely overreact, and in face of common sense, logic, and a complete lack of understanding of genetics, statistics... make a complete idiots of yourselves (both you and your white night), left with only one option “ CD has never being to Argentina” CD must be some troll living in a basement ...“ Ohh and remember he hates women” .” Ohh he is prejudiced (Hey never mind about ALL Italians are corrupt, the one that I challenged all along)
“Ohh he eats babies for brekfirst”
But gosh I wonder why in two years when I’m arguing against Think, Danny Berger, axel, Enrique Massot et al, it never crossed your mind that I’m not Argentine….
@91 I have never really cared where you are from. What is obvious is that you have little understanding of Argentina and the culture there.
Jun 13th, 2015 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are you so sensitive to the obvious and statistically proven link between Italian and Argentina cultures? Is it because you hate Argentines but have Italian blood? It makes it harder to hate when the lines get blurred doesn't it?
92
Jun 13th, 2015 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ I have never really cared where you are from”.... So you chickned out, just as you chickned out with the genetical argument...
“Since you love researching try looking at nature vs. nurture. I am talking about cultural inculcation not DNA. It really is not that hard.”
But not quite as you keep on contradicting yourself. You cant uphold an argument so you divert into these stupid personal interpretations that you always make... demonize here and there, some white knight comes along to lick your arse all done.
The problem is that you are not a teen any longer, though your mind is still limited to that age.
Elaine you know I’m Argentine... You can invent all the stupid fantasies you wish at the end of the day, you know I’m Argentine and I know far more this country deeply than you ever will, and if I say Italian input is vastly exaggerated you better look up for some good statistical and genetical evidence to back it up. You have never being to La Matanza, never arrived in Retiro Station at dawn.
Like I did when I argue Muslim advance in Europe be France or the UK, I research a lot... why because I’m not from there, and instead of throwing a tantrum learn some fucking respect and dont be so irritating up tight because Im no Toby and I can hit back. Have a good fucking day.
@93 “learn some fucking respect”. I doubt anyone has ever respected you and that hurts, doesn't it?
Jun 13th, 2015 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0More pseudo physiological mambo jumbo interpretations... Its boring Elaine.
Jun 13th, 2015 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I rest my case.
@95 Giving up? You certainly need a rest.
Jun 13th, 2015 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0hahahahaha
95.
Jun 13th, 2015 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0* Psychological
Whatever.
Elaine
Jun 13th, 2015 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Remind me never to pick a fight with you.
Voice
There is another José Oribe on the internet that's known for making classical guitars. Cabeza Dura is not him.
Yankee Boy
Just the fact that over half the nation eats gnocchi at the end of every month with pesos placed under their plates clearly defines Argentines as being influenced by their Italian roots.
Three questions for the general public that has actually visited Argentina:
1. Did you notice that a large number of the people you encountered there had Italian surnames?
2. Did you notice that the residents there wave their hands around a lot while complaining about everything while sipping their expressos?
3. Did you ever see the resulting scandal and near violence when an Argentinian was in the presence of a foreigner CUTTING up his spaghetti...
Bonus question for everyone: name a single Mafia gangster (for real or in the movies) from Turin, Florence, Pisa, Venice...
What I find saddening after visiting the other social media sites he haunts is a rage against the Spanish nobility, anger against “Hispanics” (despite his Oribe surname), a severe hatred for Jews, Muslims, insecurity towards women and his insanely strong conviction that Italians are all homogeneous.
At last, his ridiculous delusional vision of the cultural heritages of Argentina and Chile... I rest my case...
@98 I am sure I would learn a lot from a good debate with you and many other people on here. CD2 can't debate so he throws insults around and demands that we accept his warped view-point as correct. His towering ego and narcissism block his ability to look beyond his very deep prejudices.
Jun 13th, 2015 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He sounds so like TTT they could be two personalities inhabiting the same person. If nothing else they have a lot in common so as they both claim to live in Argentina they should meet up.
99.
Jun 13th, 2015 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0PS.
But can you please have the decency of helping your poor Chilean arse licker that there is practically no bigger fan of Jews than yours trully???
Can you please tell him that Argentina's Italians are not overall southerners, in fact the girl Im dating happens to have a northern one, that was pretty much the only reason and point as to why I made the mistake of mentioning her...Tell him that Italian imigration North vs South was something in order of 50-50...
Explain honestly to him that not even you yourself buys his crap that Im not Argentine...
Im saying this too you because I dont respect boot lickers. He has spent his life saying “yes sir” and his is stalking me with maybe Cap Pops?? all over the Web... I dont know..
Fucking Jesus what a bunch of cunts!!!!!!!!
@100 Man up and tell him yourself.
Jun 13th, 2015 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
Jun 13th, 2015 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0José Oribe lives in the United States and still does not get it:
In the media posts I've read, José lists no connections with higher education, nor any connections to Argentina. He has a morbid fascination with Benito Mussolini, the alleged illegitimate HRH Prince Philip Duke of Edinburgh, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and a number of rude posts here in Mercopress that you can easily peruse.
He clearly continues struggling pathetically trying to convince us he's dating a beautiful northern heritage Italian girl and that is is an authentic Argentinian.
His blood gets to the boiling part when I remind him that the majority (but not all) of Argentine immigrants emigrated from the southern regions of Campania, Calabria and Sicily. The resulting mix with the Spaniards in Argentina created a their infamous “Viveza criolla” mentality.
Southern Italians are generally corrupt---→Southern Italians dominate Argentine society--→ Argentines are screwed
vs.
Northern Italians are industrious and hard working---→Northern Italians contribute to the cultural harmony of Chilean society--→ Santiago has very good Italian restaurants and the waiters don't overcharge on your check.
The corruption index for 2014 ranks Chile 22nd, Italy 69th and Argentina 107th out of the 177 countries assessed.
José please answer what's wrong with being brown? Having a light brown completion, dark hair and brown eyes is bad?
WTF is going on in this tread....I see a pincer attack on CD...2:1...
Jun 13th, 2015 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm going on CD's side...
This thread started off fairly normal then there was combined bating based on unfounded accusations and Wiki facts....(great source)
There is no proof that CD is not Argentine....
There is no proof that he is this named person....
Think and myself bated him when he was CD1 and if anyone could spot a fake RG it would be Think (I wouldn't have a scoobies) .
Conqueror posts more racist, rude and despicable comments than CD....
....and ElaineB enjoys the challenge of tackling him...
So give it a rest...there is no proof only accusations...
@103 Are you feeling left out?
Jun 13th, 2015 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@103
Jun 13th, 2015 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If this is the cavalry, Cabecita should be wanting his money back.
101. I’m a man precisely why I talk to the owner of the circus, not to the clowns and the monkeys that lick your arse…I cant bother
Jun 13th, 2015 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey CP try with the troll that lives in Birmingham Alabama, yeah that’s right the hairy one that lives in his Mom’s Attic instead of the basement, and drinks water from morning dew in the roof. Im not Jose Uribe because he drinks moisture from the walls.. That’s me.. E-mail his face book to this Chilenito de los mandados...
103.
Hey remember, I proudly mentioned you the girl even before I had this conversation on another thread... You have to admire my foresight at least!!
#103 Voice
Jun 13th, 2015 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So you too are an expert on Argentina and want us to believe that Italian-Argentines don't make up a significant part of the national character?
Or has Cabaza Dura has more eloquently explained: “Spics raped the arse out of indian women since they came 500 years ago. They are by far the largest ethnic group. All the more popular surnames of Argentina are ALL Spanish.”
Voice, do you have a problem with someone being brown? Having a light brown completion, dark hair and brown eyes is bad?
Final question, do you also believe José's new northern Italian girlfriend has a “great body and tits...”?
You and José belong together...
107
Jun 13th, 2015 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No I'm not an expert on Argentina or Argentines...you may have noted that I already mentioned that....@103” (I wouldn't have a scoobies) ...Scooby Doo...Clue in case you don't know what scoobies meant...
I am well aware of misconceptions based on common belief though, like the common theory that the English are mostly Anglo Saxons and the new DNA evidence has now proved they are not....so a common opinion can be wrong...
“Voice, do you have a problem with someone being brown? Having a light brown completion, dark hair and brown eyes is bad?”
Brown, White, Black it's all the same to me...but preferably pretty...
Do I believe that CD got hooked up with the hottest girl in the gym...?
100 per cent....Why...?.... because he was so excited that he told me on another thread...out of the blue in a way that would be almost cryptic to anyone reading the post....He was also making fun of me at the same time...
Here it is...
27 CabezaDura2 (#)
Jun 10th, 2015 - 02:38 pm
23.
80 kg Hard Head has hit obvious chemistry with the hottest chick in the gym...
Dont ask me how because the place is full off built up neck less weirdoes...
He knows I do weights and use his 80kg bodyweight for press behind the neck reps... so he was also taking the piss...
...my reply was...
37 Voice (#)
Jun 10th, 2015 - 04:58 pm
Oh well done...perhaps it was charm, it always trumps muscles....
It's tomorrow you go behind my neck...once every 3 days...
The post was totally unconnected with the thread or any conversation with him...he obviously couldn't believe his luck and had to tell someone...so yeah I believe him.....
http://en.mercopress.com/2015/06/10/argentina-commemorates-creation-of-malvinas-political-and-military-command-in-june-1829#comment400870
I just say things as I see them...if you have some proof of your accusations...show me instead of stating your opinion as a fact....like Terry Hill does...
#108 Voice
Jun 13th, 2015 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks sincerely for your thoughts, and I appreciate your thoughtful post.
I also admit, you make a decent defense regarding the new girlfriend. Fair enough.
As I mentioned another member of this forum sent me the information that José Oribe lives in the United States and I posted that I would not share the specific link provided because that would be improper.
You really don't need anymore information to prove CABEZA DURA has never been to Argentina except just reading some of his outrageously ignorant posts.
For example, any Argentine post the following: @29 “Argentina is a poor and backward country because its a mainly Hispanic country.”
The use of “Hispanic” is typical of gringos to describe Latins and it would be very rare for a typical Argentine to deride their country as “poor and backward” Despite its sad decline, Argentina has incredible natural resources, heavy industrialization, highly developed infrastructure, with an agricultural sector able to feed a large percentage of the world. Their universities, hospitals and other national institutes still are some of the best in Latin America. Argentines love to boast about it. It's only their Mafioso political mentality that's dragging them away from prosperity...
The reason why Elaine defrauded him was because of his repeated denial that Italian-Argentines didn't make up a large part of the Argentine national character.
Certainly many Argentinians will emphasize that their rich Spanish national character, but I can't imagine anyone of them denying the Italians. Not in the land of Lionel Messi and where half the nation eats gnocchi at the end of every month with pesos placed under their plates.
By the way, I'm of the same opinion: “Brown, White, Black it's all the same to me...but preferably pretty...”
CD2 = misinformed poser
Jun 13th, 2015 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA
Jun 14th, 2015 - 01:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0(Other fun facts to know)
laconic=chronic
José Oribe lives in the United States
Voice confirms he has a hot girlfriend.
Ordine Figli d’Italia has chapters in 23 Argentine locations.
Argentina is listed having the highest per capita consumption of spaghetti.
Argentina has the fourth highest consumption of olive oil. (Spain, Greece and Spain are higher)
Argentina has the highest consumption per capita of tomato paste.
The Ndrangheta is a Mafia-type criminal organization originally from Calabria that has a strong presence in Argentina.
“After unification in 1861, the Italian economy improved, leading to an increase in population, but the benefits of the economy were not evenly distributed. Famine was affecting the southern regions as generations of subdividing plots had rendered farms too small and inefficient to support the population, especially given poor land management and farming methods, while the phylloxera epidemic wiped out the Italian wine industry starting in the 1870s.”
“Domingo Sarmiento, president of Argentina 1868-1874, compassionately encouraged immigration to assist the starving southern Italians with a government program to heavily subsidize passenger voyages from both Palermo and Naples.”
Italian-Chileans are far superior to Italian-Argentines because... they live in Chile...
Anyone that saw the game tonight witnessed the Argentinians in the stadium crying like Italians when Paraguay scored two goals. 2-2
108.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 03:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ok since I owe you one, I feel like you deserve an explanation and if you are actually interested in the subject, then fair enough. It’s a long and complex issue and may bore, but if I’m dealt with respect I will explain in proper and provide substantial reasons and proof.
I may very well be one in a million Argentines, but I am Argentine. Rest assured. Everybody knows this. Of course people, family friends and people I deal with everyday and get along fine would be offended of what I trully believe to be true.
Argentina is a country that had a considerable Italian input in the late 1800s & early 1900s, but my case is that it was not overwhelming nor certainly did they ever came to be a majority nor impose drastic cultural changes on the locals.
Viveza Criolla, means literally Creole cunning. Its absolute balls that Italians be south or northern be included in this concept. A Creole “Criollo” in entire Latam America means basically the cross of a Spaniards (generally men) with Indian women. Now I may have exaggerated by claiming that all Creoles descend from the actual crime of “rape”, but the reality is unlike later immigrants that came over Spanish conquistadors were soldiers in a foreign land with no women of their own so they were bound to cross over with the native women.
The Martin Fierro is the center piece of Argentine literally that everyone reads at school and its set and written in pre immigration times. It narrates a totally Creole society, were corrupt police, judges and the system completely displaces the typical Gaucho or freelance Creole cowboy. Already in those days “Hacete amigo del juez” befriend a judge was Martin Fierro’s teachings. These and other phrases will come to be known as Argentine “viveza criolla” examples.
Now to Italians in Argentina, most were actually northern in fact 2 out 3 were from the North (Historia de los italianos en Argentina By Fernando Devoto page 106) between 1870 to 1890.
To be continued-
As has been mentioned above there has been significant migration from Italy to my country ( Australia ), I've never once heard any association of corruption, laziness or negativity in regards to them, or for that matter those descended from Greek migrants - also a significant contributor to our population. They have fitted in so well, in fact, that I've never even heard a phrase such as 'Italian-Australian' to describe them. They are simply Australians, no less than those descended from those whose ancestors came from the British Isles.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 04:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's not an academic observation, but I believe this is because, despite being, now, a predominantly middle-class nation, we've never lost the working class sensibilities that are an inescapable part of our history. The outgoing nature of southern europeans have made for a good fit and I also believe that those who migrated from a devastated post-war Europe were grateful to find themselves where both security and ample opportunity were to be had.
...and for what it's worth I've never had any doubt, not for a second, that CD1 & 2 is anything other than Argentine. He's also left enough personal information on this site to convince me, also beyond doubt that, his ancestry is neither Spanish nor Italian.
113 Heisenbergcontext
Jun 14th, 2015 - 07:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fernando Devoto specifically states that the majority of Argentinian-Italiansr trace their ancestry back to the regions of northern-Campania, northern-Calabria and northern-Sicily.
In my lifetime in Chile, I've never once heard any association of corruption, laziness or negativity in regards to Chilean-Italians either.
The only thing I really know about Australian Italians was getting to visit the De Bortoli family that produce outstanding Australian wine and I can attest they are wonderful people. Frankly, it's an unfair comparison using Australia as an example, but I'll try:
-In the corruption index Australia scored 11, Argentina 10
-Less than an estimated 8% of Australians do not pay their full taxes. In Argentina less than 8% actually pay their full taxes.
-Australia estimates that 2.5 million people or 13.9% of all people are living below Argentina's poverty rate was less than 5%.
-Apparently 4% of Australians claimed Italian descent in a 2014 census. In Argentina it's estimated to be 55%.
-Australia has had no Prime ministers of Italian heritage (Although they did have Anthony Albanese who served honorably as Deputy Prime Minister.) Argentina has had 11 Italian-Argentine presidents and it's very probable Mauricio Macri, who's father is from Italy will most likely be the next president of Argentina.
-The second most common language spoken in Australia is Mandarin, in Argentina it's Italian.
-Australia has a lower inflation rate than Canada. Argentina has been successfully able to maintain their inflation rate well below Zimbabwe's
-The British government shipped tens of thousands of convicts to various Australian penal colonies. The worst criminals of the lot were then subsequently given free passage to Buenos Aires if the promised to never come back. (Alright, I've had a bit of wine this e
I could care less if CD2 is Argentine or not. It makes not a jot of difference to the point that Argentina has a huge Italian influence in their culture. This is reference in numerous historical documents and is obvious to anyone who has visited both Argentina and Italy.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is quite possible that CD2 has never been to Italy and, therefore, mistakes obvious Italian traits as being Argentine.
What is clear is that CD2 hold some pretty despicable views. He even admits that “Of course people, family friends and people I deal with everyday and get along fine would be offended of what I trully believe to be true. ”. He doesn't have the courage of his convictions as he hides them in real life. He just vents them on the internet. It says a lot about him.
CD2, Glad to know you see me as 'The Owner' and whilst you won't address some posters because 'you don't respect them', you are happy to address me. Ergo you respect me. For the record, I have zero respect for you.
@Chicureo
Jun 14th, 2015 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0I'm impressed by the statistics you've posted, most of which are new information to yours truly, as well as even knowing whom Anthony Albanese is.
p.s. You might be amused to know that for many of my compatriots, having an ancestor who was 'transported', is actually a badge of honour.
@116
Jun 14th, 2015 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0“As Robert Hughes remarked in The Fatal Shore, it's one it he great ironies of history that a land founded by felons should evolve into one of the world's most law-abiding societies”.
Jeffrey Pike, “Australia”.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=vX9nmtMdQkQC&pg=PA69&lpg=PA69&dq=australia+most+law-abiding+society&source=bl&ots=mwiEvBXLr1&sig=dRDBM8gor_WqzWQTYg7DzwVpbaA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAWoVChMI9OSIzIqPxgIVAe8UCh1iRwBD#v=onepage&q=australia%20most%20law-abiding%20society&f=false
It's not so much an irony, as a proof that criminality has nothing to with genetics.
@117 “It's not so much an irony, as a proof that criminality has nothing to with genetics.” I completely agree. Cultural inculcation is hugely influential on human behaviour and moral compass. If something becomes culturally acceptable even if it flouts the law, people do not feel guilty about indulging in a little law breaking. Further more, they tend not to be condemned by the people around them but rather admired.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@117 Hans
Jun 14th, 2015 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's true criminality has nothing to do with genetics but, not to be pedantic about the subject, Hughes statement only works if you believe that the released convicts were the dominant cultural influence thereafter. That is open to question.
Worth considering also is the fact that most of those who were transported were only guilty of petty crimes - such as stealing a loaf of bread - those convicted of more serious crimes were not transported. And if I ever encounter Robert Hughes in the afterlife I might point out to him that Australia was already a land of law abiding societies long before Europeans arrived.
Hans, Elaine and Heisenberg,
Jun 14th, 2015 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I've posted earlier, Chile is very fortunate to have its Italian immigrants that have well integrated into our society. I used to play bocce regularly with a group of them.
Well first I need to immediately correct that the corruption index Australia scored 11, and Argentina a whopping 107 out of 177 countries polled.
Also to clarify that Australia estimates that 13.9% of their people are living below the poverty line, where as the president of Argentina claims her country's poverty rate is less than 5%.
“Viveza criolla” is a Spanish language phrase literally meaning “native cunning” describing a way of life in Argentina. It is a philosophy of progress along the line of least resistance and ignoring rules, a lack of sense of responsibility and consideration for others, and it extends to all social groups and throughout the whole country, although it predominates in Buenos Aires.
You probably know the story of the Australian who about a decade ago who tried to auction New Zealand off over the internet, starting at just one Australian cent. Six thousand hits and 22 bids later, New Zealand was still a real estate bargain at $3,000.
Inspired by this, a Uruguayan tried the same with auctioning off Argentina in a similar manner. About half way through the auction, the bidding reversed with “I'll pay you 6 pesos to take this wretched property off my hands.” The bidding finally settled at an amazing negative 5 billion Nuevo Australes which were worthless to start with...
Both incidents resulted in upsetting both foreign ministers of New Zealand and Argentina.
@120 Chicureo
Jun 14th, 2015 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol, it's just too easy sometimes isn't it?
@112
Jun 14th, 2015 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=ywl5N6tM_e8C&pg=PA93&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
In fact the USA has far more proportion of Sicilian and Calabrian immigration than Argentina had since 1876 to 1925. Only in between wars in 1925 did Argentina receive more Calabrians and Sicilians than the USA did
https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=ywl5N6tM_e8C&pg=PA93&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
That Argentina received exclusively Southern Italians is absolute nonsense.
https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=ywl5N6tM_e8C&pg=PA93&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Furthermore the list of the 200 most common surnames in Argentina are the following.
https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=ywl5N6tM_e8C&pg=PA93&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Only 5 of them that I spotted ; Rossi 51, Ferrari 82, Romano 86, Gallo 116, Russo 126 are actually Italian, the vast and overwhelming amount of surnames are Spanish.
Food. Ñoquis are frequent yes. But I don’t know where they get that idea that all Argentina sits down and eats them with notes under the plates. That’s another wild and exaggerated myth, the reason is also a common sense market one.
If each 29th ppl would flock to the supermarket to buy them, then there would be massive shortages in the supermarkets round the end of the month and cyclic price increases. Just like fish is scarce in Easter.
You can do them home made but they are quite hard work and complicated to make.
More so Asados a typical creole dish is by far the most common dish
This chart shows why Food has far more to do with economical and geographical advantages and purchsing power relative to what it is produced and consumed
https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=ywl5N6tM_e8C&pg=PA93&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false
Argentina's beef consumption has nothing to do with Italy nor Spains habbit.
To be continued-
#121 Heisenbergcontext
Jun 14th, 2015 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The New Zealand foreign minister was actually pissed. It is fun when some don't get it.
#122 CabezaDura
José,
We're all excited to see your promised second half and appreciate your candor, knowledge and insight into the complex as well as unique analysis of the Argentine character from a native like yourself.
After reviewing your highly researched post, perhaps you may indeed be “one in a million Argentines”. There are stories from time to time of babies being kidnapped by Gypsies and being sold to gringos. (That's also a plausible theory why you ended up in los Estados Unidos...)
You also mention that we can be rest assured that everyone knows you are Argentinian... Just out of curiosity, WHO are “everyone”?
You also earlier mentioned that Argentina was not much influenced by the Italian diaspora in the late 1800s and early 1900s, which is a bit confusing for many on the forum here, because it contradicts what's clearly evident for even first time travelers to Buenos Aires.
I've already explained earlier what the meaning of Viveza Criolla was actually the result of immigrants from the regions of Campania, Calabria and Sicily mixing with the Spaniards in Argentina. I've also stated that some Italian-Argentines can trace their heritage from Milan, Florence, Pisa, Turin, Rome, but the vast majority come from places like Palermo and Naples. (Hey, it's just common knowledge here... Ask any of your Calabrian Argentine friends has a Ndrangheta uncle...)
One last question José, your surname suggests you are of “Hispanic” background and yet your earlier posts demonstrate a rage against the Spanish conquest. Could you enlighten us on the contradiction? By is it you think “Argentina is a poor and backward country because its a mainly Hispanic country”?
I am interested to know why CD2 is so desperate to deny the Italian influence on Argentina. Why? What is the problem?
Jun 14th, 2015 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As mentioned @123, CD2 refers to people of Spanish origin in the most offensive terms. He denies Italian influence and hates the Spanish. Does he have Russian or British ethnic origin? Even if he does, why would he seek to disparage the Italians and Spanish that make up the majority of Argentines?
This is all so familiar…..
122
Jun 14th, 2015 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As you can see pork & poultry are far more consumed in Southern European countries. Now consumption of pork and poultry has indeed increased in Argentina since 2007, but that is mostly due to gov’t policies that destroyed argentine cattle beef and forced the market to alternatives. But that’s another issue.
The lies that people have just sprung up their arses with no proof nor source in this thread is getting boundless.
Pasta consumption per capita per Kg (2011)
http://www.internationalpasta.org/index.aspx?idsub=118
It’s clear that countries that have nothing to do with Italy consume far more pasta per head than Argentina does.
For pizza, Argentina doesn’t even appear in the top ten
http://www.internationalpasta.org/index.aspx?idsub=118
World pizza delivery brands like Pizza hut are virtually nonexistent in Argentina.
And by far and enlarge Spanish ascendancy together with Indian that totals over 56% of all Argentines (Corach 2005) are by far the largest ethnic origin of modern day AVERAGE Argentines.
http://www.internationalpasta.org/index.aspx?idsub=118
Plus of those 56%, of them 10% of near all Indian ancestry with no European trace.
Again mostly Italian ancestry Argentines ( and I say mostly ) is round 20%- 25%.
The idea that most argentines descend from Italians is laughable and incorrect, based on popular myths and ideas that have little correlation to 2015. Argentina may have seemed very Italian in the early 1900s, but over 4 generations (genetically a “generation” is considered 25 years) different birth rates, intermixing, and immigration from other neighboring purely Hispanic countries for example Chilean immigration to Patagonia, and limited Italian immigration to central Argentina and Mendoza means that these ideas and myths are completely outdated and fall apart.
José,
Jun 14th, 2015 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I specifically posted that Argentinians have the highest per capita consumption in the world of both SPAGHETTI (not pasta) as well as tomato paste. Furthermore bife de chorizo is their favorite national dish.
If you really were an Argentine, you'd know all about gnocchi because the Sicilian-Argentinian family living next door would always be inviting you over for the dinner on the 29th and EVERYONE would put some money under their plate.
Argentines take tremendous pride in boasting about their pizzas. Only an ignorant gringo would post: “World pizza delivery brands like Pizza hut are virtually nonexistent in Argentina.”
Simple question: Why did you post that “Argentina is a poor and backward country because its a mainly Hispanic country”? Do you really believe that?
Is Pizza Hut big in Italy?
Jun 14th, 2015 - 05:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0125.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 06:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Much speculation about my persona and the motives of why I say the things I do. All of them amount to GOEBBLIAN LIES based on systematic repetition.
The answer is very simple; its about the truth. I’m a very observant and objective person. None of you can deny this. Before judging the world you have to see it exactly how it really is, beyond feelings and political correctness it’s actually a very rare and non common faculty and I’m very lucky to have this ability.
Things are just the way they are, you may disagree with the ulterior analysis that results from it, but the reality must be seing for what it is.
Personally for me Argentina is by far a hispanic country. I have presented substantial proof instead of simply picky personal experiance.
Furthermore I dont lie. Creole is criollo in Spanish. You dont need to go into Wikipedia or even google translate. “Viveza Criolla” is not “native” cunning, its direct translation is creole cunning. And anyone specially a latam who says creole is a Italian immigrant crossed wth an indian is a liar. By far the concept includes near totally Spanish crossed with natives.
The Martin Fierro, Argentina's most central and important literature piece is set in pre immigration times and entirely on creole society. It only mentions as I recall a Englishman and a “papolitano” (citizen of Naples) that run from a pulperia when the cops arriaved to draft them for the garisson wars against the Indians.
If you read the Martin Fierro you shall notice that social codes, public affairs, corruption, lawless ness and unfairness that lives to this day existed in Argentina before the huge immigration waves.
Make your own conclusions.
@128 Simply. There has to be a reason for all your prejudices.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#129 Elaine
Jun 14th, 2015 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Chile we would respectfully describe his complexion as “moreno”...
José,
I already have made my final conclusion. There is not much to debate anymore. Elaine already conclusively exposed you as a fraud and now with your ignorance of Argentina makes it very clear that you have never visited Argentina, Uruguay or Chile. Your social media site exposes you as well. (By your appearance it is highly unlikely your heritage is Basque, Castillian, Gallecian or Northern Italian.)
Any Argentine will quickly tell you that Buenos Aires is the world’s greatest pizza capital, at least in the just the sheer number of pizzerias. You can’t walk a city block without passing a pizza joint, or at least an eatery that serves pizza, and no self respecting Porteño would consider going to a Pizza Hut.
Italy as a whole heavily consumes all forms of pastas, polenta, risottos and an incredible variety of breads. A half a century ago, an American visiting southern Italy remarked that in the region spaghetti was almost exclusively the only pasta dish served. As be travelled up the Apennine peninsula and crossed into Abruzzo, a wide variety of pastas were served. Southern Italians prefer spaghetti as like their cousins who emigrated to Argentina. Spaghetti, with a simple tomato sauce, a little garlic with Parmesan cheese and maybe a sprinkle oregano. (Boring as hell, but that's what southern Italian-Argentines serve as tradition and that's why Argentines have the highest per capita consumption of spaghetti in the world.)
We even have a few southern Italian-Chileans here and they don't cause any problems other than start screaming and threatening violence when they observe a tourist cutting up their spaghetti. (Otherwise there's no problem, which is unlike Argentina where they would normally call out the homicide squad.)
Why do you think “Argentina is a poor and backward country because its a mainly Hispanic country”?
...Your words, simple question...
115.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know that in sight of my awesomeness and complete over walking of you retards you are bedazzled and feel that need to be respected by me. Unfortunately someone that calls you a overweight unpleasant bureaucrat in menopause does not qualify anywhere as “respect”.
Its not that I consider you more than the Chilean lackey, but as he submits himself to your approval and blessing just as the guy thats behind him telling him porkies and is here making a complete idiot of himself when someone is ordering him around by e-mail hunting trolls Goodness knows where.. And he is the one making a complete idiot of himself... I guess he doesnt realize that precesly that makes him and his boss trolls.
I know you can’t endorse his non Argentine version any longer and he made a tactical mistake by admitting he was wrong about the girl..
Its far more harder to sell the troll version lies, because trolls don’t date hot women nor go to gyms..
And he keeps on clinging to you “Ohh Elaine exposed him”
Its far more harder to sell your typical belittling campaign.
@131 But why are you so in denial about your Italian heritage and why do you use that derogatory term for Spaniards?
Jun 14th, 2015 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I doubt you have a'hot' girlfriend but if the fantasy makes you happy….live it up.
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#132 Elaine
I'm in a hilarious situation as my son is watching with me the Brazil-Peru Copa America game on TV and a delivery guy just arrived from “Papa Johns”...I broke out laughing.
Thanks to a friendly e-mail, I know José Oribe lives in the United States. His opinions confusing and strange, QWhe is fascinated with strange themes like“The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, really does not like Palestinians, has a phobia about Italian cultural dominance in Argentina especially with origins from the southern region, yet admires northern Italy and it's culture, has a severe hatred for the Spanish conquerors, and insists that the vast majority of Argentines are ethnically creole, [defined almost exclusively from Spaniard soldiers and Mapuche women.]
I know that in sight of my awesomeness and complete over walking of you retards you are bedazzled and feel that need to be respected by me.” (We really are impressed with his delusions of grandeur.)
“...when someone by e-mail hunting... Goodness knows where...” (He's getting paranoid)
“...he is the one making a complete idiot of himself...his non Argentine version...”
(Yes, that there is little doubt that there is little Italian influence in Argentina as well as there was no Italian emigration from Italy to Chile. Despite your post that you were dining with your friends in Milan.)
“...tactical mistake...wrong about the girl...”
(He does not understand sarcasm...does he...)
“...trolls don’t date hot women nor go to gyms...”
(But they can pretend to be dating beautiful northern Italian girls...)
“Ohh Elaine exposed him”
(Yes you did Elaine)
He can write endless about statistics proving nonsense, but he can't answer why he thinks “Argentina is a poor and backward country because its a mainly Hispanic country.”
@133 Maybe he is confused about why he hates so much. In general people with such extremist views really hate themselves. Remember TTT and his hatred of 'all women' and 'all foreigners 'etc.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Undoubtedly CD2 is a complicated person with a huge chip on his shoulder. He lacks any humour and has the whiff of desperation about him. Why he needs to anchor himself to one group and denigrate all others is primitive. Why he feels he needs to hide his extremist views in real life is very telling. He must think that if his friends knew they would drop him immediately. So he really does crave acceptance.
I was, indeed, dining with my Italian/Chilean friends in Milan last weekend together with a rather well-known Chilean who happened to be there too.
Huh...
Jun 14th, 2015 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why not ask Conqueror why he thinks Scotland is a poor and backward Country...I can second guess his answer...because it's full of Scots...
Dislike that exists within a Nation is hardly uncommon....Conk is living proof....
I can see some mountainous mole hills appearing...
@135 I had that conversation with him a long time ago. Where were you? I don't read his posts anymore.
Jun 14th, 2015 - 11:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0CD2 had a LOT of prejudices that cannot be explained away as easily as you suggest.
#135 Voice
Jun 14th, 2015 - 11:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes but Conqueror is not a Scott...
...ok, let's allow that people can hate their own countries... But that's when other posters can present their countering views.
I've been asking simply why he thinks “Argentina is a poor and backward country because its a mainly Hispanic country.” Anyway, he's the one that started the debate, not us.
136
Jun 14th, 2015 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fine...all I'm saying is CD's prejudices are not a patch on Conquerors...quite tame in comparison...
So in my opinion it's not a big deal, I've been called worse than he calls you...by him!!
Water off a duck's back...
CD2 can submit his blood for testing to determine the presence of the E1b1b (E-M215) haplogroup. This will sort his orgins out.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0138.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0And you have to wonder why simply saying and defending ones own opinion with facts numbers, reason should cause such outlandish theories and lies is beyond belief.
I dont hate anybody, not even Muslims. I say things for what they are. Yes, Argentina is a mostly Hispanic country. Not a mostly Italian one like people here have completely failed to establish. All Hispanic countries are failed poor and backward. Argentina is poor and backwards. Its a matter of fact.
I didn't invent this world, I simply see at as what it is.
The problem Jose is that when you create a false identity you need to know your facts. Elaine and I both know that you're an insecure young man pretending to be an Argentine. My advice is to focus on reality and accept who you are.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wish you well.
Elaine, I want to have a laugh, ask your arse licking Shitleno monkey to explain how does this guy Jose in the USA living in the basement of his Mom know that a simple deck alfajor Tatin costed 10 cents, a triple alfajor Fantoche cost 50 cents, a can coke one peso. Ten cents a 4 stickers packet, a pizza about 10 pesos in the 1990s when there was no internet so prices were not uploaded on line…
Jun 15th, 2015 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ask your arse licking joke how did I get a edition of a very popular argentine weekly of 1982 after the war where Raul Sohr was employed..
José, having a copy of an Argentine magazine from a couple of decades ago is about as convincing as Voice sharing one of your posts about a hot girlfriend.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 03:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0You are a fraud with a potty mouth.
Exactly how is that so little, faggot???, please explain why do I have in my power a of a Argentine magazine of 1982, if I live in the USA and have never set foot in Argentina nor I have any link whatsoever in your own words with Argentina.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 03:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0No word about that, arse licking monkey.
Over two years here, no Argentine has ever, not once questioned my nationality, A fat cunt bureaucrat that reads the Bubble and her experience amounts to stuff her arse in Palermo and a Shitleno useless officer that has to much time to spend gossiping by e-mail decide to play Scooby Doo after being completely walked over based on complete myths suddenly discover that Im so guy called Jose (El que te culleo y se fué)
Not only would I have the foresight to talk to voice about her previous to this thread. Which you reacted immediately revolted in jealousy because your wife is obviously a ugly brown little Chilean woman. Specifically on the basis that she has a northern Italian background. That was only point about mentioning her.
You admitted that Voice had a convincing point about her, the next thing you do is pull back because I admited to Elaine you made a “tactical mistake” LOL!!!!
Cant you see why you are so retarded and pathetic??!!!!
Not only that I would know the prices of candies and common stuff that kids bought in Argentina when there was no internet. Stuff that was not even advertised in the time in newspappers.
I know slang, and I insult you like all Argentines do almost all the links I post end up with the .arg meaning to say my search engine is most likely Argentine.
And why do I treat you like absolute shit?? Because you are so.. You are a little faggot that has nothing to offer other than GOEBBLIAN LIES, not even Elaine can support your lies, that Im not Argentine !!! That is why she backed off.... And you keep on licking her arse... while someother idiot keeps on feeding you gossyp.. Are you for fucking real??????????
Chilote culo ROTO!!!!!!
@145 And there you have a charming display of CD2's gutter language and revolting prejudices. What a thoroughly unpleasant person. No wonder he pretends to be something else entirely to the people around him.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 08:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0Chicureo touch a very raw nerve.
I don't care one jot if you are Argentine or not. But something made you full of hatred - clearly displayed in the language you use - and I just asked why you hold such extremist views. Surely you have the courage of your convictions online, even if you hide them in real life.
@138 Not really. CD2 won't appreciate you being his White Knight.
145
Jun 15th, 2015 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't post here to be appreciated...I post to say what I think...and I couldn't care less what CD or anyone else thinks of me...
@146 Well, obviously Conquerer bothers you a lot. Why don't you challenge him and say what you think to him? I did. I survived. Go on, you will be fine. You don't need me to do it for you.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have a problem with CD2's revolting views and I am challenging him here. I am not asking anyone else to do it for me.
@140 CD2 says “I say things for what they are….” “All Hispanic countries are failed poor and backward. Argentina is poor and backwards. Its a matter of fact. ”
I thought it was Jose who said that Argentina was 'poor and backward'. Are you the same person?
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA and lives in the United States.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0The truth is that in Argentina, a large percentage of the population is dominantly influenced by the southern Italian Viveza Criolla. (Massive migration of immigrants from the regions of Campania, Calabria and Sicily mixing with the Spaniards in Argentina.) The Spanish and other European nationalities combined with the Mostly southern Italians forming the Argentine character.
There were some Italian-Argentines who came from the north! but most of the northern Italians preferred to go to Chile and Uruguay instead. Palermo and Naples were the major ports where Italian immigrants left for Buenos Aires and that's why Argentinians have the highest per capita consumption in the world of spaghetti.
(José needs to cut out the following chart and carry it in his pocket for reference:)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Southern Italians ---→Marry Spaniards and dominate Argentine society--→ Argentines rank 107 on the corruption index.
Northern Italians are industrious and hard working---→Northern Italians contribute to the cultural harmony of Chilean society--→ Chileans rank 22 we on the corruption index.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
147
Jun 15th, 2015 - 10:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do...
My replies to him...shake him to the core...leaving him virtually speechless..
for example...
http://en.mercopress.com/2015/06/12/world-bank-forecasts-argentina-will-regain-access-to-capital-markets-in-2017#comment401390
CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA and lives in the United States.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0#147 Elaine
Apparently CabezaDura has become nervous about being outed. His “Hispanic” face picture has been changed to a medieval helmet.
@149. So, why are you bringing up Conquerer on this thread? Now you know I have challenged Conquerer in the past are you feeling a bit better?
Jun 15th, 2015 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0CABEZA DURA HAS NEVER BEEN TO ARGENTINA and lives in the United States.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0A bit of irony for those still denying a strong southern-Italian influence in the Argentinian character: Guillermo Pacagnini, member of the Argentine Workers Socialist Movement, that his family originally emigrated from Calabria.
http://guillermopacagnini.mst.org.ar
151
Jun 15th, 2015 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0A simple comparison... Conqueror is British he hates different types of British, now if you substitute the word British for Hispanic you have the analogy I have been alluding to...
It happens in all Nations he thinks the English are superior to the Scots...
@152 Was it Jose who said Argentines are poor and backward or CD2?
Jun 15th, 2015 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0If he is both characters I am not surprised he is covering his tracks. He even hides his real views from the people around him in real life.
#154 Elaine
Jun 15th, 2015 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0José theoretically could have a connection through a parent that emigrated to the United States from Argentina. (Could explain his comments about African DNA present in Argentine women as well as having a few decades old Argentine magazines.) That could explain his inability to communicate in decent Spanish as well as English. He's very sensitive about his dark complexion and yet at the same time derides others as being inferior for being brown.
(He also removed from his social media site the “Elders of Zion” rubbish.)
@155 That is not uncommon for insecure people to deride in others what they dislike about themselves.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The fact that the profile picture has suddenly changed and the site has been edited does not look too good for CD2 does it.
I don't much care who he really is or where he comes from but if he wants to continue posting vile insults I will continue to challenge him on it.
145.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 12:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0GOEBBLIAN LIES that your arse licking monkey sprouts are far more aggresive and foul than my language.
Of course you couldn't care if Im Argentine or not because you know I am!!!.
And if you would met me you would be probably charmed and delighted.
But please can you at least accept his version. He will sniff and swallow your farts in those dinner parties if you do.
@144
There is no such thing as Southern Italian “viveza criolla” HAhaahahaha, how many times do I have to explain it, monkey
(English) CREOLE = CRIOLLO/A (Spanish)
The charts and tables I provided completely dispell your LIES that Argentina's immigration is Southern Italian dominated.
And you keep on LYING & LYING ad nauseaum!!!
Its Amazing...
CD2:
Jun 15th, 2015 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It must be unsettling to have your public persona challenged and rented so easily.
Here is a link that explains some of the services available and the science associated with them.
http://www.dna-testing-adviser.com/EthnicDNATesting.html
No need to remain ignorant and project.
With knowledge you can learn to anticipate some of your genetic dispositions - both those of health and behavior - and compensate for them.
Many of us have previous participated in studies utilizing these results.
Often one feels liberated from the burdens of specific cultures which they they have taken up for no good reason.
With third party participation at you and we could establish what you are and aren't.
José,
Jun 15th, 2015 - 01:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Campania, Calabria and Sicily immigrants + Spainards = Argentine Viveza Criolla
A nice article today for those denying a strong southern-Italian influence in the Argentinian national “viveza criolla“ character. Guillermo Pacagnini, member of the Argentine Workers Socialist Movement, who's family originally emigrated from Calabria. http://en.mercopress.com/2015/06/15/argentine-union-leader-expelled-from-ilo-meeting-for-stealing-a-tablet
Anyway, I really have no desire to deride southern Italians as they're in general very good people.
Truthfully, other than knowing you currently reside in the United States, we really don't know what planet you originally came from, however it's completely clear you've never visited Argentina.
Campania, Calabria and Sicily immigrants + Spainards = Argentine Viveza Criolla.
The charts and tables I provided completely prove Argentina's immigration is dominated from Italians from the southern regions of Campania, Calabria and Sicily.
I sincerely doubt Elaine ”would be probably charmed and delighted” to meet you either. (As she's an experienced world traveler, you'd get a full blast of pepper spray in you face if you tried to... But then I imagine that's how most of your dates end as well...)
There is a question that you and “Voice” perhaps are the same poster. What's your thoughts on that?
159
Jun 15th, 2015 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0My thoughts are...
You are well renowned for elaborate hoaxes on this site....
I can't find this particular Jose on social media sites that include photos....
You will not provide a link...yet that hardly constitutes outing someone...
I don't recall you posting your email address for another Mercopress poster to be able to email you to give you this info....
I suspect you are taking us all for a ride and the one most taken in would be of course...Elaine....
Give me the link and prove me wrong....or confess.....
LOL
Jun 15th, 2015 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So this guy José has a Argentine mother that brought over a magazine of 1982... You move to another country and take a weekly ??! So then she is apparentely black... Buth then my comments are on mythocondrial DNA... Listen monkey, I know that you are retarded and all but you can be blonde and blue eyed and have North African or Arabian mythocondrial DNA.
It means nothing.
Now not only does his mother remember what kids stuff costed in the 1990s!
I'm surprised about this Jose... guy he knows a vasta ammoun of all argentine related topics from a basement in the USA. Be all say politics, economics, how to make an asado, he knows what Retiro Station looks like at 7 in the morning, he tells Reekie Massot that AUH are a failure because they have invested schools with drugs... Something that is not even mentioned in the news in Argentina.
He even explained a well traveled and experianced Elaine that it is near imposible to steal grain from a Silobolsa overnight.
You would have a trillion over that examples in two years of me posting here... and somehow this Jose would know all this from the basement.. .
I imagine he kind of has a Dexters lab in the basement. Like a whle CIA team just running over hours and hours in internet. Amazing guy...
Not only that he also has time and the complete forseight to Champion the State of Israel in one site and the Jews and in the other be a complete anti semite...
Gosh... And what was he in the end ??? African, Sothern Italian, an Indian, a non Hispanic with surname Oribe???
@Elaine
I dont need a white knight nor an arse kisser like you do, Voice doesnt lie.
You want voice out of the picture so you can do this bully gang with your filthy manginas. So be it.
Just imagine all the Argentine enemies who I have, all them Ks could move in to discredit me, and you have none fat arse!
Even Hamas is flying around trying to bite, but he cant run in for this Jose crap.
@160 How I am being taken for a ride, I wonder? I don't care where CD2 comes from and have stated it many times. I didn't ask for any links and am uninterested in searching for him on the internet My debate with him is about his nasty prejudices and the foul language he uses here. If he wants to post them here I will challenge him here. The rest is irrelevant.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 02:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is true that I would be highly unlikely to be charmed by CD2. I have met people like him on my travels. They always let themselves down by making derogatory remarks in general conversation. They are so inculcated that they don't even recognise it in themselves.
162. Elaine. Of course now dont care because you cant prove Im living in a USA basement!
Jun 15th, 2015 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#160 Mr. “Voice”
Jun 15th, 2015 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is not the only social media site that I and others from Mercopress participate in.
You have been suspicioned of being a number of identities, including THINK and CabezaDura2.
I stated earlier that it would not be ethical to share the link publicly and Elaine's only query regarding the link was where was from. Nothing else. (Speaking of her, and although I do not know Elaine either; I would not be surprised she really does carry pepper spray. She needs no help from a “white knight”.
The elaborate elaborate hoax going on right now is that José Oribe knows anything about Argentina.
@163 You sound just like TTT. Full of your own self-importance and desperate for attention.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What difference would it make where you live? You are a bigot, a racist, a misogynist and a xenophobe wherever you come from. You think swearing is grown-up and clever. Do you speak to your mother with that mouth? Worse than that, you don't have the courage of your convictions.
I pity you carrying all that hate and jealousy around with you every day. It is eating you up.
164. I dont understand why dont you post this link of yours (if it would proove anything)???????????????????
Jun 15th, 2015 - 03:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I want to have a laugh... Its not ethical to lie.
If you want to proove something why dont you provide evidence??? Common monkey what are you waiting for??
Exacly how are you giving any rational explination forALL I said in #161. You are just lying your arse out.
If THINK, VOICE and CD2 were the same guy working in a basement for all these years we should be working and earning tons of money working for blackwater if we/me has the ability to hoax all the posters here, infiltrate forums and shape public opinion in limit less amounts of issues and topics.
Your ideas, stupid monkey are fucking byzarre
@Elaine, I was even accused of being you at one time. You even said you liked me. I can flip you over like a pancake and you wouldn't even notice... “Ohhh what a charming and educated young man” you would say.
But if Im full of self-importance and desperate for attention. Then dont give it to me then, stop spreading lies and pack off with this mangina white knight of yours.
@164 No I don't carry any pepper spray, or weapons, except my sharp tongue.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@166 You are a twit. You couldn't charm me and you over-rate your education.
#167 Elaine
Jun 15th, 2015 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, but respectfully I would not discard the fangs and claws you keep in quiet reserve.
#166 José
The unusual misspelled and incorrectly used term “goebblian lie” you've used elsewhere. Do you remember where?
I do have a reoccurring question regarding your highly offensive comments regarding people with brown skin, and yet you too are a non-white “Hispanic” with even dislike for olive completed southern Italians?
108 Voice Voice, Vestige, Think et al
Jun 15th, 2015 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you are little unwise bandying my name about and then showing a link. People might decide to check up on your claims. They would then obviously see the reverse is true of your post, and that you are simply a sore loser.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” Thomas Szasz
164
Jun 15th, 2015 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it's fairly ethical if the accused is giving you permission to post the link....
We are all waiting with bated breath....
I reckon we'll be waiting for quite a while....;-)
169
Now... that post doesn't make any sense whatsoever...the link I posted was true and was a conversation with CD....
Sometimes I wonder about you....as soon as you leave the safety of your cut and paste...you post nonsensical drivel....
167. A very charming twit actually.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0168. I have no idea who this Jose is.
But I tell you the following. I have no problem with brown people, I wouldnt be able to leave my front door if I did.
However, you seem to have. You would rather have yourself convinced Im dating a “Sicilian” transvestite than a girl of Northern Italian origin, you continuously lie about southern Italians being the most of Italians in Argentina. Dismissed by facts and numbers heaps of times... and you would tell to Elaine all your blood line that you selectively choose to mention to her.
Now how about you monkey start providing the links and proof and explaining what is statistically IMPOSSIBLE… I want to be amused, and you and your master will continue to do so
#170 Voice
Jun 15th, 2015 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you used the unusual misspelled and incorrectly used term “goebblian lie”?
172
Jun 15th, 2015 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am not following you...I have never used the word....but a quick check on the web shows a lot of people have....
https://twitter.com/johndayal/status/577687033243574273
https://twitter.com/johndayal/status/577687033243574273
This isn't a deflection from posting the link is it...? ...;-)))
#173 Voice
Jun 15th, 2015 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for your response. Do you know what it means?
Why José uses the term the unusual misspelled and incorrectly used term @157?
José
Campania, Calabria and Sicily immigrants + Spainards = Argentine Viveza Criolla.
170 Voice Voice, Vestige, Think et al“
Jun 15th, 2015 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”...instead of stating your opinion as a fact....like Terry Hill does..” This statement is a mere Proof by Assertion, sometimes informally referred to as Proof by Repeated Assertion, it is an informal fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion. Well I am waiting with bated breath....I reckon I'll be waiting for quite a while for you to either amend your obvious fallacy, or have the decency to apologize for your slander.
174
Jun 15th, 2015 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Goebbels...Nazi propaganda....?
@171 “I have no problem with brown people” So why do you use it as an insult?
Jun 15th, 2015 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#175 & 176
Jun 15th, 2015 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Goebblian lie” is a reoccurring term used by people with origins from the Indian subcontinent. And yes, it means proof by repeated assertion.
”
175
Jun 15th, 2015 - 06:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I reckon you will be waiting forever for me to apologise for Slander....
The more you engage me, the more you display your ignorance and lack of education especially pertaining to LAW....you might want to check out the difference between Libel and Slander...;-))))
ps.. what has that got to do with the Link you mentioned @169 that you said I mentioned @108....?
178
Are you sure?...only....
http://wapspell.com/t127306p1-Goebbelsian_Lies.html
#177 Elaine
Jun 15th, 2015 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It has been suggested by an anonymous reader that you and I are being pranked and that CabezaDura2, Brasileiro, Troy Tempest and Voice are the very same José Oribe...
See: http://en.mercopress.com/2014/10/31/pacific-alliance-and-mercosur-begin-round-of-ministerial-informative-meetings
Read the successive posts of #36 Brasileiro, followed by #37 Troy Tempest and then #38 CabezaDura2
He now takes more effort to differentiate his sock puppets.
#179 José
Yes, the correct spelling of the use and term “Goebbelsian” was that Goebbels believed if we repeats a lie thousand times it will become a truth.”
A “Goebblian lie” is a term used by people with origins from the Indian subcontinent and a few trolls talking to themselves.
179 Voice, Vestige, Think et al
Jun 15th, 2015 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I reckon you will be waiting forever for me to apologise for Slander....” no surprise, but thank you for the admission of lying “..qui tacet consentiré videtur-lit. he who is silent is thought to consent. Thus, he who keeps silent is assumed to consent; silence gives consent. In law, the silence of a party implies his consent.. A maxim of crime and consent. qui tacet, consentit-lit. he who is silent agrees. Thus, who keeps silent consents; silence means consent; silent consent is same as expressed consent; consent by conduct is as good as expressed consent. This is an implied term in law....”
SOMA'S DICTIONARY OF LATIN QUOTATIONS MAXIMS AND PHRASES; Yes I am familiar with the terms of libel and slander. But you are obviously not conversant with the legal terms “The law respects form less than substance, equity looks at intent, not at form” and “The law does not concern itself with trifles”.
180
Jun 15th, 2015 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are getting more desperate with each post...I see no mention of me in the link...
So now I'm Jose too...;-)))
You are losing credibility with your fanciful assertions....
WHERE IS THE LINK...?
I did say we would be waiting a long time for it...
181
If you are familiar with Slander vs Libel...why the fcuk did you use the wrong one....Slander is spoken or heard....Libel is seen or written...Doh!!!
182 Voice, Vestige, Think et al
Jun 15th, 2015 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The point is both are falsehoods, and again you don't deny that you are a liar. So thank a second time, for a culpable admission, as it's preferable to an insincere apology.
#182 José
Jun 15th, 2015 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No desperate and certainly not impressed by you demand.
You could be honest for a change and tell us you nationality and residence. Most posters here normally do..
As far as your link:
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/10/31/pacific-alliance-and-mercosur-begin-round-of-ministerial-informative-meetings
Explain the conversation...
@180 How is it a prank? I have no doubt that some people have more than one identity on here. The choice of language and use of idioms expose the posters. More than that is the underlying personality flaws that cannot be hidden over time, especially when they get angry. But think about it. What kind of loser would do that? And why? So that at least one person in the world agrees with them? Because they have too much time on their hands? Because they have a sense of power that is missing from their lives? They are making fools of themselves not anyone else. Just pity the person behind it.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If someone posts nasty, racist, misogynist stuff on here, I am going to pull them up on it under any name. The more angry they get, the more stupid they sound and the more they expose just how vile they are. They can't help it and they always trip up. Just keep your guard up and don't let them bait you. The only opinions I care about are those of the people I respect.
#185 Elaine
Jun 15th, 2015 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps a better term would be misleading. José has Belén promoting his hot new girlfriend and then Voice appears with a testimony.
Anyway, I'm finished with this silliness. José certainly knows very well of the Italian dominance of Argentina.
@186 Oh, the non-existent girlfriend? Yes, that was the most amusing part. Who needs to boast about getting a date on a message board? It must be either a very rare occurrence or, far more likely, an invention. As for the 'it must be true because it has been posted on another thread'…… pathetic.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chicureo, this person will trip up again on another thread. Just enjoy showing them up.
183
Jun 15th, 2015 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The point is..you didn't know the difference between slander and libel otherwise you wouldn't have used the wrong one....
Get back to high school....
184/186
How the fcuk can I explain the conversation when I didn't take part...?
Take a step back Chicureo...take a couple of deep breaths....
You are slipping down the rabbit hole...
I have been known to defend a few posters in my time...all adversaries....
Either you are having a laugh or someone is winding you up...
“It has been suggested by an anonymous reader that you and I are being pranked and that CabezaDura2, Brasileiro, Troy Tempest and Voice are the very same José Oribe...”
Jun 15th, 2015 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ohhh no he is getting closer all are diabolical plans are going to come to an end!!!!
Jajajajajajajajaajaaja!!!! What a fruit !
#187 Elaine
Jun 15th, 2015 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0José has been a unintentional comedian with his ignorant commenting, including such as about the lack of Pizza Huts in Buenos Aires... His allegation of no real presence of Italochilenos... yet we've had three Italian heritage presidents, one Italian heritage Miss Universe and about 600 thousand more, including some dear friend of mine. You already know that we commonly say good-bye and how are you in Italian here.
#188 José
Take a step back? Do you feel threatened? Afraid of explaining that you are a “Hispanic” with origins from ________ that now is residing in the United States? Elaine already has outed you for not really saying what you really think. The sock puppet Voice shares my same opinion about a person's skin color. The Brasileiro pathetic sock puppet has a severe hate for people of European heritage and our CabezaDura2 misogynist sock puppet has a sick hatred for your “Hispanic” race that's saddening. My question is that since you are distinctively a dark complected “Hispanic” with a Latin surname is simply why disparage people because of their race? We are living in the 21st Century.
Ciao José
Hahahahahahahahahaha
Jun 15th, 2015 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey, it could be Im Keyser Söze...
Remember, monkey.... “The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he never existed”
I dont know it sounds really cool thing to say..
Argentina is a mainly hispanic country, Im Argentine and this has been thouroghly proven in #112, #122, #125 and opposition completely failed to tackle this arguments.
Anybody else that says otherwise can que up take a number kneel down y chuparme el huevo izquierdo y la mitad del derecho...
Hey Mercopress
Are you not entertained!!!????
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs
CabezaDura2 is a sad pathetic sock puppet with José Oribe's hand up its arse.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0188 LOLOLOOLOLL
Jun 15th, 2015 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nooooo it is José Oribe (us) who sent him the e-mail. All is going according to plan.
Today its Elaine and Chicureo, the next day its the entire world
HAA HAA HAA HAA
*Darth Vader laughter
@192 That could well be true. I could name at least one other that has strikingly similar character flaws. The thing is, he will argue black is white against all the facts, be thoroughly humiliated and still think he 'won' an argument. We are giving him the attention he craves and gets nowhere else.
Jun 15th, 2015 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#194 Elaine
Jun 15th, 2015 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed. I have dinner this evening with wine merchant at one of my ten favorite restaurants in Santiago, the Bar Liguria. I highly recommend it if you've never visited.
188 Voice, Vestige, Think et al
Jun 15th, 2015 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The law does not concern itself with trifles” and neither do I, but apparently you do. I guess that's all your left with when you have nothing substantive to proffer. You assume I don't know the difference between slander and libel, If I didn't, I would simply say so say so. Unlike you, I'm not such an insecure person that I have to engage in 'sock -puppetry'. But then If like you, I had been proven a liar by the appropriate legal standards, and was so intellectually dishonest, I had to resort to use of fallacies in order win at any cost. Such behavior exposes what a completely base and amoral person you are, as they were deliberate acts, as you make no attempt to claim an unintended mistake, congratulations.
190
Jun 15th, 2015 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hispanic..moi...?
Take a good look at that lily white skin....
Take a closer look at that Pipe Majors insignia on my right shoulder of the jacket...
Now I'll go to the wardrobe and pull out that jacket that I'm wearing in the photo and photograph it with your name next to it...
...and post the two photo's...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/14217715423_6280d56d4a_o.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/14217715423_6280d56d4a_o.jpg
Now climb back out of that rabbit hole....Voice does not lie....
197...
Jun 16th, 2015 - 01:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Forget the links they are inappropriate because they may cause epileptic attacks.
But now now now José common explain this conversation !!
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/10/31/pacific-alliance-and-mercosur-begin-round-of-ministerial-informative-meetings
The immaculate proof and ultimate proof that CD2, Brasileiro, Troy Tempest and Voice is the same person.
Aha Gotcha!!!!!!!
And for all of you who want to know… the answer is this Chileans, Brazilians, Peruvians, Uruguayans, Venezuelans, Colombians, Ecuadorians are all my brothers. Here I am with all my friends.
http://en.mercopress.com/2014/10/31/pacific-alliance-and-mercosur-begin-round-of-ministerial-informative-meetings
Say no to racism
@198
Jun 16th, 2015 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nothing wrong with being Green....Green is good ; )
More information can be found regarding the real José Oribe at:
Jun 16th, 2015 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0www.armada.mil.cl/armada/tradicion-e-historia/glosario-naval/c/2014-05-15/121453.html
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