MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine embassy in US launches website on the struggle with 'vulture funds'
The Argentine Embassy in the United States has launched a website to explain the conflict between Argentina and holdout investors commonly referred to as “vulture funds”. The website explains the origins of the conflict, its history, and provides documents and expert opinions on the subject. Its virtual library has until now over 200 documents and 100 independent sources. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesLet's get this straight. Are they saying that the bonds have gone up in value 1600%? That of course taking in account of inflation currently 30-35% per annum and of course the interest on the bonds since 2001, sounds ok to me.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0I went to have a look at that website. It's more or less what you'd expect. Steibnitz appears several times. So does Kiciloff. There's also the usual sprinkling of lies. Sorry, please replace “sprinkling” in the previous sentence with “drenching”. Oh and, of course, none of it is argieland's fault. The whole structure of the world's finances are about to collapse on the strength of certain parties “gunning” for argieland.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here's a list of countries by public debt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
Sorted, argieland is 80th. How come “vulture” funds aren't targeting countries higher up the list?
The reality is that argieland pulled a scam. That's a deliberate fraud. It's now squirming, wriggling, doing everything it can to avoid paying its debts. And it's failing. Where is the end? When Kirchner steps down, will argieland finally give in, admit defeat and pay up? Will enough Kirchnerites stay in power so that she can pull their strings?
Argentina Is Already in Violation of the UN’s 9 Debt Restructuring Principles
Aug 08th, 2015 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://factcheckargentina.org/
Kicillof admitted they have to pay the vulture funds and is 'in negotiation'. He claimed that CFK claiming they will NEVER pay was just a negotiating tactic. I think her declaration made things a lot worse so that tactic backfired.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Terence Hill
Aug 08th, 2015 - 12:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Who cares?
call the cops...
@5. Oh, I do agree. Shall we go through the list of argie “crooks” to be arrested by Interpol? Kirchner, Boudou, Timerman, Fernandez, Randazzo, Rossi, Kicillof, Alak, Rodriguez, Tomado, Sileoni, Baranao, Gollan, auntie Kirchner, de Vido, Giorgi, Casamiquela, Meyer, Parodi. Minimum 20 years each.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have had a glance at this website. it shows support from an Early Day Motion which was presented for consideration in the UK Parliament led by, guess who, JEREMY CORBIN, who may well be elected leader of the Labour Party shortly.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 02:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Early Day Motion was subsequently withdrawn!
“Who cares?
Aug 08th, 2015 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0call the cops..”
Or you could just put up a pathetic website crying about how nasty the real world is.
How embarrassing.
No matter how one looks at it, the main points are accurately pointed out in the article: the vultures purchased bonds for pennies on the dollar AFTER the default, obviously to seek a sympathetic judge and make a killing getting the 100 per cent of the bonds' face value. They had been successful in taking millions from some of the world's most impoverished countries and sought to repeat their “feat” profiting with Argentina's 2001 default. They could not foreseen the Kirchners' determination to protect the country's interests above all.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tough luck, Mr. Singer.
You kind seem to have a problem with contract law. It does not matter how much one pays for the contract, or even who owns that contract. What matters is .....“is that contract still valid”.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Was that contract invalidated or voided Enri?
If by chance Argentina turned out to continue avoid paying a legally validated contractual debt, regardless who initiated it, I hope NML continues to keep Argentina pigeon holed and their presidents renting jets when they fly out of South America.
I'm going back in a few months Enri.....and your expected return?
The arg embassy staff all looks like the need a bath. They have the same grasp of English as my maid.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Theyve lost every court case and in the end theyll pay.
It wont be long.
Theyre getting stangled and if not for China theyd already be broke.
Just wait and see
What impertinence for Argentina to do what it wants in other people countries,
Aug 08th, 2015 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they give themselves the impression that they are above all, and can do as they please,
dam riff raff. ?
But will anybody in the states bother reading this crap?
Aug 08th, 2015 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Most of the yanks cannot name a country that begins with a 'U' and try Utah! They seemed perplexed when the interviewer named 'The United States of America.
These must be the idiots supporting old 'Orange Bonce' himself: Trump.
It's because we really dont care about other parts of the world.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Over the next decade the USA will become less involved in the world. We dont need anyone for our success.
#10 Cptn. Poppy
Aug 08th, 2015 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not everything that is legal is fair or ethical. NY Judge Thomas Griesa chose to torpedo Argentina's successful debt restructuring to support a few wealthy speculators--the vultures.
When Argentina defaulted in 2001, its bonds were worth almost nothing.
Paul Singer of NML and Aurelius Capital then bought bonds for pennies on the dollar, with the purpose of getting back their full face value as soon as the country recovered. They had successfully done so against countries as impoverished as Peru, Zambia and Democratic Republic of Congo.
Paying 100 per cent to the holdouts would be unfair to most Argentine creditors, who accepted a 70 per cent haircut.
The Argentine government owes its first loyalty to its people--and is acting accordingly.
It sure disappoints Paul Singer and cheerleaders such as Cptn. Poppy, who profess to care only about “contract law.”
Argentines, instead, appreciate the change. Governments prior to the Kirchners used to go hat in hand and accept whatever would be dictated by foreign powers.
15. Rgs aren't known for living up to agreements. Never have and I expect they never will.
Aug 08th, 2015 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I hope this intransigence from the corrupted filthy Ks causes mass starvation in Argentina.
So they learn
@15
Aug 08th, 2015 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's see if I have this right. Whats not fair is not paying back every cent your country borrowed. I think that is not fair or ethical. Here is a hypothetical question for you to answer if you can, but I wont hold my breath. Would you be willing to lend me US$ 1000 and I give you back US$300? You try that with a bank of your choice anywhere in the world and see what happens. Argentinians are nothing but a bunch of thieves just like their government.
@ 14 yankeeboy
Aug 09th, 2015 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It's because we really dont care about other parts of the world.”
The United States of America!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpDEu8KmNj0
18. Its not just Americans. I think about 30 percent of the world's population is just plain dumb.
Aug 09th, 2015 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@7. Might be an idea to spell the socialist/commie out-of-date hooligan's name right. It's Corbyn. Remember the “y”. Otherwise, it's just where you throw a core.
Aug 09th, 2015 - 01:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9. And still, Reekie, you persist in the K lie. It is quite clear that the bond issue was a scam by the so-called “government”. How many people would actually put real money into a bond issue by a known corrupt and criminal “state”? For the sake of the “con”, argieland dispensed with sovereign immunity. So argieland displays itself as subject to “normal” rules. It got the money it wanted. Money from tiny, individual investors hoping to increase their life or pension savings by a few percent. Then the default. Then came the beginning of the scam. Kirchner N (deceased) told them to accept what was offered or get nothing. US$1,000 invested suddenly became US$300. It's the point at which the honest bond issuer provides accounts etc. and seeks negotiation. Did argieland provide accounts etc? No. Any negotiation? No. Just “take it or leave it”. But then the bonds were bought up. With bondholders being paid more than they could get from argieland. Anything wrong with that? But then the new bondholder wants to be paid in full. Not unreasonable. Why shouldn't a corrupt criminal be forced to give up the scam and pay its debts in full? Suddenly “sovereign immunity”, specifically foregone by argieland, became part of the argie defence. And what's happened since? Every tiny stratagem argieland could come up with. Can't afford it without bankrupting the country. Argieland is already bankrupt. The effects on “the people”. What does the Kirchner argie “government” care about “the people”? It already steals incredible amounts. Refusing to negotiate with anyone. Trying to get the UN to change the rules. As usual, telling the world lies.
@15. Whoops. Argieland only likes laws it makes or acts in its favour. “fair” or “ethical”? How about “honesty”? Argieland didn't care. Now, it's down to the law!
From Clarín today Sunday 9 August 2015
Aug 09th, 2015 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.ieco.clarin.com/economia/Optimismo-holdouts_0_1409259343.html
Enrique Massot
Aug 09th, 2015 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0telling his usual lies, “the vultures purchased bonds for pennies on the dollar AFTER the default” although he has been shown that NML bought bonds earlier in the year 2001, months before the december default and at higher price than offered by Argentina at the restructurings in 2005 and 2010.
“7. Between 6 June 2001 and 2 September 2003 affiliates of NML bought bonds in the two bond series at prices which were, in aggregate, 55.37% and 62.82% of the face value of the respective series.”
Republic of Argentina v NML Capital Ltd [2010] EWCA Civ 41 (04 February 2010) http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/41.html
15 Enrique
Aug 10th, 2015 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0“
Not everything that is legal is fair or ethical. NY Judge Thomas Griesa chose to torpedo Argentina's successful debt restructuring to support a few wealthy speculators--the vultures”
Not at all Enrique,
Griesa is only requiring that up to 7% of the bonds must be redeemed at the full amount - in fact, ethical or not, he has not denied the “ restructuring” or 70% haircut
Enri I am fully aware of what the process was and what had transpired. While I do not believe in the repulsive, flesh eating action of MNL, they were nonetheless in their rights of the law. Ethics are not decided in law.
Aug 10th, 2015 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The arrogance of Argentina's actions are what brought them to this stage and personally seeing what I've seen in Argentina with my on two eyes as my feet were firmed planted on Argentine soil, I hope that the Kirchner's asses are handed to them on a copper platter.
”It sure disappoints Paul Singer and cheerleaders such as Cptn. Poppy, who profess to care only about “contract law.”
A cheerleader? Seriously it that is what you believe you are far more ignorant than what I previously perceived. You are by far a cheer leader of Kirchner than I of MNL and Singer's group. Legal is legal and arrogant is arrogant. If they approached this entire issue differently it would have had a much better outcome for Argentina, but Nasty Nestor's arrogance created this mess. No, I am not cheer leader of either that is for certain. But I am always concerned for my extended family there. As I see it they both deserve the bed they are now lying in.
So what do you say.....joining me at Tortini's for a media luna and cafe? I'll even bring you up the Palacio Barolo for a grand view.....no?
#24 Cptn. Poppy
Aug 10th, 2015 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, I do support what, as a whole, the Kirchners have done for Argentina, and this is taking into account that any government will be imperfect.
They have attempted to distributed more fairly the country's wealth, making the oligarchs that used to run things furious. They cringe at the thought of their domestic employees having rights and living better.
As an example, a recent retirement moratorium made some cry unfairness they did not want those who had not contributed enough--such as homemakers--to enjoy similar rights.
In regards to the debt situation, there are many examples of sovereign debt restructuring around the world as recognition of shared responsibility between creditor and debtor. Bankruptcy laws provide a civilized way to deal with insolvency at the private level.
Sadly, in Argentina money borrowed outside did little--if anything--for the country. Last April a bicameral commission was formed to investigate the legality of Argentina's foreign debt since the military coup of March 24, 1976. Why? The World Bank has established that of the total debt contracted during the military government, 40 per cent went out as capital flight; 30 per cent to pay interests; and 30 per cent to buy armament.
I appreciate your concern for relatives in Argentina. I too have family members and friends down there and hope they do well. I do believe they will be better off with a kirchnerist government.
Should both of us drop by Bs. As., I'd gladly join you at Tortoni's for café y medialunas.
lol.
Aug 10th, 2015 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0-------------------------------------
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I am in Argentina two or three times and year.....and you? As for my family.....no, they will not be better off.......they and the hated middle class...they work. And my wife.....robbed of her retirement savings with nothing to show for it.
Aug 10th, 2015 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 17 golfcronie : “ An hypothetical question ..: Would you be willing to lend me u$S 1.000 and I give you back u$s 300? You try that with a bank of your choice anywhere in the world and see what happens. Argentinians are nothing but a bunch of thieves just like their government”.
Aug 11th, 2015 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Begging the Almighty enough self-control, I state that the root of the fallacy of an argument frequently lies at its premises. So, as you are modest enough to assume yourself the role of the crook (i.e. the Minister - borrower) I, with grief, am forced to accept it as a sound possibility in our country. So, I will be the banker. Now, the trend of YOUR reasoning REQUIRES me in this role integrity and good faith in dealing with you, no matter how ambitious I could be. And is this also a sound premise...? It is at least doubtful that you, the scoundrel Minister, will seek a honest banker “anywhere in the world” as your counterpart in negotiations. Let us remember that the Greek delinquents, at first, asked Goldman Sachs to “cook” their books´ciphers in order to enter the EUROzone, that they were caught red-handed, and despite this circumstance, they were finally admitted. BUT , however, in our hypothetical case, I imagine myself an unimpeachable Finance man. So, I tell you: “Yes, we are willing to lend you u$s 1.000, that´s our business, because we evaluate your repaying capacity at the u$s 5.000 level and, besides, we are not enemies of real estate guarantees. May we talk on these matters..?” This, of course, applies to the man-in-the street. To Presidents and Minister of foreign countries, “higher” level negotiators are incumbent : “ We are able to grant your country the u$s 230 million loan on the ”conditions“ we have already adjusted. Don´t worry too much on possible leaks. By that time both you and me will be retired from our present jobs, and with enough 'ballast' in our pockets”. No? HOW ON EARTH, THEN, COULD POOR GREECE´S DEBT REACH THOSE LEVELS?
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