MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Pope Francis and the Malvinas
By Jimmy Burns - The snapped moment of encounter projected fast and globally on the world wide web has become as much as a characteristic of the Francis papacy, as his twitter account @pontifex. This is a papacy with a charismatic personality and instinctive communicator at its helm. It is also a papacy advised by media specialists and diplomats that know something about the opportunity offered by the digital age to spread a message with an impact that would have inconceivable just a few years ago. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesDon't worry Francis, i'm not sure that the catholic church could be held in a lower esteem by the British people than it already is.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0If anything, this stunt has actually set back Argentina and not done it any favours.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0The only fact remains the Pope did send a message. And nobody can ever think he is not aware of what he says, does and holds in public. I still can't believe how UK and its settlers in the islands can be so offended by a call for dialogue in as peaceful terms as the UN has been calling for the last 50 years.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentines are like Jehovas Witnesses, banging on your door telling you what you should and shouldn't believe, stuffing leaflets in your hand.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3 Try thinking a little harder then.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina wants sovereignty and nothing less. The UK is certain in its own sovereignty and that this is what the Islanders wish. In these circumstances there is nothing to discuss. To enter any discussion would just be seen to encourage Argentina in its fantasies. Even supposing there was something that Argentina could offer, the country has shown in its international dealings that it cannot be trusted to honour any deal.
Does that help you understand why there is no discussion or any prospect of one?
@3
Aug 24th, 2015 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anything new in the Argentine position since you last broke off talks, started a war, tore up agreements, and refused to meet?
Nothing to worry about. The Falklands Islands remain a BOT; nothing has changed and nothing will change.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Frustrating, isn't it, Argentines?
@1 Britworker
Aug 24th, 2015 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your remark is grossly offensive to millions of British Catholics who are loyal to Crown and Country. Your opinion is on a par with the efforts of paulcedron in his various guises.
What an offensive idiot you are!
@3
Aug 24th, 2015 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I still can't believe how UK and its settlers in the islands can be so offended by a call for dialogue in as peaceful terms as the UN has been calling for the last 50 years.”
So tell us exactly what Argentina would bring to the negotiating table.
I have challenged other Argentines on these threads with the same question and they invariably fail to answer. I accept the fact that you cannot speak for Argentina but tell us your personal opinion.
“Mal- vinas” of course is derived loosely from the pseudo-Spanish for Bad Wine, an emotional title arising from Sour Grapes over the independence of the Falklands .
Aug 24th, 2015 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0@3
Aug 24th, 2015 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ I still can't believe how UK and its settlers in the islands can be so offended by a call for dialogue in as peaceful terms as the UN has been calling for the last 50 years.”
Because it isn't a peaceful call for dialogue. Your Constitution demands full sovereignty and your leaders don't consider the islanders to have self-determination. If you truly want peace, then go to the ICJ and accept the outcome - peacefully.
Personally, I'm not insulted or offended at all because the Pope has no significance for me. But i do feel sorry for the UK and FI Catholics (like Gordo here) who hold the Papacy in high regard but are then subjected to nationalistic propaganda from their Pope. The Catholic church is not owned by Italians and Spaniards and their colonial diaspora. It is, or at least should be, a fellowship of like-minded believers regardless of race, country, language, etc. If British and FI Catholics are second class members because they live in the wrong country then that is very sad indeed and further hurts the image of a church whose reputation has been critically weakened over the last 2 decades.
@3
Aug 24th, 2015 - 11:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ I still can't believe how UK and its settlers in the islands can be so offended by a call for dialogue in as peaceful terms as the UN has been calling for the last 50 years.”
We offered talks in 2013 but Timerman refused to attend them them.
The islanders weren't offended at dialogue as they fly all the way from the Falklands to attend.
It is Timerman that appeared to be offended at dialogue.
What you morons forget is that pre-1982 the Islanders attended talks. (Franks Report 1983).
None of you Malvanistas ever answer that point because you can't.
Your mathematics is shite-Britain was in talks with Argentina 1965-1982, and the UK talked after then in the 1990s.
The Islanders even offered to share their (not your) resources.
You cried off saying “We want it all or nothing”.
Now, you have what you want, nothing.
So Argentina has not been waiting 50 years for talks.
You seem to be educationally challenged, as if you bothered to read UN res 2065, it says nothing about favouring the Argentines or the UK, but the Falkland Islanders.
The Pope means nothing to 90% of the British people, in fact most people regard the Popes stance on important human matters as medieval and regressive. So, what he says and what causes he promotes means nothing in the UK, and the Falkland Islands although it is swallowed hook line and sinker by the ignorants in SA.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UN hasnt called for dialogue for 50 years, it did once, but Argentina declared war on the Falklands and invaded. Argentina thus halted any dialogue, walked out of post war talks and refused to meet the UK foreign minister and the islanders representatives two years ago.
The ball is in Argentinas court… .
Argentina has persisted in misleading the world that they have been refused dialogue. They have been offered dialogue on many occasions, the most recent being 2013 - which Argentina refused to attend.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The lie that Argentina promotes is that they want talks.
What they really want is the hand over of sovereignty.
Not talks about whether they deserve sovereignty at all.
Argentina is seeking a fait accompli.
Argentina does not care about the rights of the Islanders.
Which is peculiar, because in 1982 they said they respected the rights of the Islanders!
UN Resolution 1514 was written with the rights of native people in mind.
There were no native people in the Falkland Islands.
http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/declaration.shtml
1514 specifies:
“2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.”
1514 stressed the importance of the right of Self Determination for all peoples.
The Secretary General of the UN has reaffirmed these rights, as specified in the UN Charter.
UN Resolution 2065 recognises a dispute, but does not say anything about which side should have sovereignty.
Argentina claims that Britain refuses dialogue.
Britain does not refuse dialogue.
Britain refuses to speak with Argentina without the Islanders.
Argentina refuses to speak with the Islanders.
Argentina only wants to talk to Britain.
The impasse is entirely of Argentina’s making.
Until Argentina talks to the Islanders and recognises their rights under UN Resolution 1514, Argentina is preventing themselves from resolving this dispute.
@3 Alejomartinez
Aug 24th, 2015 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't you get your facts right before making stupid comments?
“dialogue in as peaceful terms as the UN has been calling for the last 50 years” This statement is false. Even were it to be true why did Argentina ignore it in 1982, only 33 years ago? Argentina was the aggressor which also ignored the United Nations Security Council Resolution 502 calling for the immediate withdrawal of Argentine troops from the archipelago.
You are just another ignorant and stupid troll boludo!
@15
Aug 24th, 2015 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm entitled to my views of the catholic church, if you don't like it, get stuffed!
“The more recent case of the restoration of Cuba-US relations does not involve any issue of disputed sovereignty but has been the result of the Vatican facilitating dialogue between two nations that for political and commercial reasons had decided to take their relations out of the cold. ”
Aug 24th, 2015 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jimmy, you are clueless. Have you ever heard a place called Guantanamo Bay? Cuba has and does assert a continous claim on its sovereignty. Diplomatic relations are a current short term abberation and up and until Cuban civil rights and American property rights are restored there will be no normalisation of relations.
@3 Alejo
Aug 24th, 2015 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I still can't believe how UK and its settlers in the islands can be so offended by a call for dialogue in as peaceful terms as the UN has been calling for the last 50 years.”
Alejo,
For at least the past 15 years - some would say 50, others 100... you have been publicly calling the Islanders liars, squatters, thieves, Pirates. parasites, sheep-fuckers, aggressors, imperialists, colonialists, non-people's, etc. etc. - discrediting and denigrating them at every turn, and contriving international incidents, and that is besides 1982, where you stole their homes, livelihoods, freedom and human rights, whilst abusing their dignity and defecating in their homes...
GOT IT???
You omitted kelpers.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Etc. etc. ...”
Aug 24th, 2015 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@3. So if I force a balaclava over your head, that makes you a robber, a terrorist or a paedophile, does it? How about if I hang a sign round your neck with the message “UK RULES”? If the papacy officially says that it's not getting involved, how difficult is that for you to understand? But I can clarify the matter for you. The papacy assured Britain that it would not allow itself to be used by you lot. It's not so much being “offended” as being “disappointed”. If you can't believe the head of a church that, supposedly, prizes truth. You mention 50 years. Why expect the UK to pay any attention to the UN? In 1982, you didn't. But here's a British response that goes back more than 180 years. “Get stuffed”!
Aug 24th, 2015 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Incidentally, I'll make a point that I've made before. I'll try to put a slightly different spin on it in the hope that you can finally get the point. In 1982, your country entered the casino of the world. The stake was the Falkland Islands. The dice were thrown, the wheel was spun, the cards were dealt. We won, you LOST. You no longer have ANY claim to the Islands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
Read it and learn for the first time in your life.
@17. Do you think it worth noting that Tomás Estrada Palma, the first President of Cuba offered a perpetual lease of Gitmo? That the Cuban revolution (1953-59) involved the seizure of many American “assets”. It's doubtful if Cuba will EVER have enough money to pay appropriate compensation to cover a minimum of 55 years. The US has paid the rent every year.
@ 8 gordo1
Aug 24th, 2015 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are Britworker's words 'grossly offensive to millions of British Catholics who are loyal to Crown and Country.'?
I happen to disagree with what Britworker has posted in that there is NO doubt in my mind that the RCC could NOT be held in lower esteem given the dreadful things that have come about in recent years and the utter failure in jailing the miscreants even though they were known to the 'church'.
How can it be considered a 'church' given the facts?
If you want to be a deluded soul braying (no spelling error) to a mythical god then that is up to you.
Don't judge others by your low standards.
I agree with gord01 concerning Britworker Catholic remark. It is remarks like Britworker's that hurts this forum. Jut shows what type of person Britworker is. Grow up Britworker.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0gordo1 & millet
Aug 24th, 2015 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As an British ex-Catholic I can truly say that it was the utter hypocrisy of the Catholic Church, which even IGNORES the 10 Commandments, that turned me away from them. Even the my mother who is Irish Catholic has turned from their poisoned words.
The child abuse, the abuse and persecution of women, and the very FACT that Catholic priests are teaching in Africa that wearing condoms SPREADS HIV infection, just makes them worse than they already are.
Many British Catholics would certainly choose Queen and Country over the RC Church that protects child molesters, steals from the poor, and is partially responsible for the spread of a deadly disease, that has killed millions, and seen millions of children left orphaned and fighting to survive.
The only respect I could ever have for the RC Church would be if they gave away all of their billions to help the poor and actually started following the teachings of Jesus, instead of just claiming that they do. If Jesus were back on Earth today he'd be more shocked than he was when he routed the money lenders from the Temple.
The fat cats in the Catholic Church should remember that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man (even a Priest or a Pope) to gain entry into Heaven.
And that's before the fact that they are constantly breaking the 1st three Commandments, and encouraging others to do so as well.
I doubt any Catholic person actually makes the grade to get into Heaven considering how much they are encouraged to break Gods laws.
As for this particular Pope, he's appears a genuine man, but he is still protecting the child molesters, because protecting the reputation of the Catholic Church is far more important than protecting children and other vulnerable people from his own Priests.
I can see the point that Britworker was probably trying to make, whilst I am a Christian (CofE) I do not have a problem with individuals I do not quite like the system of the RCC. I could say the same about the 'government' of Argentina too but still try to get on with the people but then everyone has their own point of view.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@16 Britworker
Aug 24th, 2015 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are entitled to whatever views you choose to have - however uninformed, ignorant and nasty they may be! You still remind me of paulcedron!
@22ChrisR Because he infers that British Catholics are held in low esteem.
I take this opportunity to remind readers( Christians of all faiths and persons of none) that many people hold the Church of England, too, in low esteem.
”Since Francis’s election, there have been examples of this communications strategy being used to underline the Pope’s humility and the humanit y of the gospel message, from washing the feet of Muslim women (not turning them into slaves) to gently kissing and blessing children (not abusing them).”
Aug 24th, 2015 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nice gestures Popesy.
Why don't you turn over the names of the relocated peodophiles to Interpol?
Is their enough Nasti treasure in the Vatican Bank to fund the settlement of the abuse victims' cases?
Four days after, the islanders are still up in arms about Pope Francisco's holding of a sign calling for dialogue--with much discussion about whether the Pope had been tricked into it, and on whether Argentines have any right to the islands whatsoever.
Aug 24th, 2015 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Argentina, the whole incident was forgotten after two days.
It would appear the danger of Argentina's claims coming to fruition is felt way more in the islands than in the continent.
@ 26 gordo1
Aug 24th, 2015 - 10:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“that many people hold the Church of England, too, in low esteem.”
That's fair enough BUT, and there's always a BUT, only the RCC and the Bat-shit Mad Islamists claim to have 'the true religion' of god.
I am sure that you have had that little mantra shoved down your throat MANY times by the RCC.
@26 gordo1
Aug 24th, 2015 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know what post you read but Britworker stated that the Catholic Church couldn't be held in lower esteem by the people of Britain than it already is.
He NEVER stated that British Catholics were held in low esteem.
Perhaps English isn't your 1st language, so such a misunderstanding could take place.
As a former Catholic I can tell you that Britworker is right. The Catholic Church is held in low esteem by the British, including an increasing number of British Catholics who are seeing the truth of what the Catholic Church really is. A money making business to make the Catholic Church richer.
Yes I know that they support charities BUT they force their beliefs down the throats of the people they're helping.
That includes the Catholic charities out in certain parts of Africa which TEACH that using condoms spreads diseases, such as HIV. The literacy levels in many of these countries is low, so people believe the nonsense that they spew.
They'd NEVER get away with doing something similar in a developed country because the people are far too educated. So millions of Africans become infected. Many give birth to children who are born with HIV, and are then subsequently orphaned when their parents die.
The Catholic Church has an awful lot to answer for. On Judgement Day I wonder what their excuse will be for lying? I wonder what there excuse will be for all the people they murdered through their lies?
And that's even before they have to explain away their protecting Priests and Nuns who were involved in numerous child abuse cases in numerous countries around the world.
@28 Enrique
Aug 24th, 2015 - 11:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“In Argentina, the whole incident was forgotten after two days.”
Curious to know how you come to that conclusion, as I understand that you have not lived there for quite some time? The whole malvinas myth is perpetuated by one country only. Islanders only want to be left alone to live happily and in peace.
www.lanacion.com.ar/1450787-una-vision-alternativa-sobre-la-causa-de-malvinas
I would appreciate your interpretation of the statement from the “17 traitors”, as they were labelled.
The pope wears a lovely dress
Aug 25th, 2015 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0A few of the RCC priests (less than 1 percent) did abuse children, and that is terrible. In Christendom, the RCC was not the only Christian domination that had that disgusting problem.. Many faiths also have ministers that abused children in their flock. This is not to condone anyone, but many Protestants love to point at the RCC and fail to point out their own minister. - Millet
Aug 25th, 2015 - 01:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0Enrique says:
Aug 25th, 2015 - 02:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Four days after, the islanders are still up in arms about Pope Francisco's holding of a sign calling for dialogue...”
First of all the Pope is holding up any sign. Someone is holding up to him.
If you feel this is acceptable behaviour for someone meeting the Pope then so be it.
As for the Islanders being up in arms 4 days later....... what is that basis for that claim? The comments on this troll infested playground? If so that's a FAIL.
@30 I don't wish to enter a debate about interpretations in this thread but I would remind you that Christians of whatever inclination ARE the Church so when someone claims the Church is held in low esteem then he is stating that Christians are held in low esteem - in my humble view!
Aug 25th, 2015 - 05:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Britain actually bases its claim on a possession taken in 1765 (itself based on the claim of 1594) - as can be seen from the letters provided to the United Nations over the last few years. In British history, 1833 is merely a minor police action to eject a trespassing garrison from Buenos Aires. The Government of Buenos Aires had been warned by London in 1829 and 1832 but, with typical arrogance, declined to listen.
Aug 25th, 2015 - 05:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Britain negotiated between 1965 and 1982. Argentina then chose the option of trial by combat. Now there is nothing to discuss. The matter is settled.
https://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/
@35 gordo1
Aug 25th, 2015 - 06:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0No Christians AREN'T the 'Church'. The 'Church' is a quasi-political organisation that was created to CONTROL the masses.
You don't have to go to Church to believe in God. You don't need a Priest to be an intermediary between you and God. That is a fallacy that was put about by the Church.
Just like no Priest can absolve people of their sin. No matter how many Our Fathers and Hail Mary's you say. And again, this very type of supposed absolution was created by the Catholic Church to con more money out of people.
So the Catholic Church as on organisation is held in low esteem for all the sin it has committed. That doesn't mean that individual parishes don't respect their own individual Priest, but for the 'Head Office' there is little love and respect by an awful lot of British Catholics.
The Catholic Church is even losing ground in Ireland due to the decades of abuse suffered by women and children at the hands of sadistic men and women, who got away Scott free with their crimes, because they were protected by the Church.
The Catholic Church gets away with a lot in developing countries, and it used to get away with a lot when it insisted that all masses had to be done in Latin and the Bible had to be written in Latin, as they knew very few people could actually understand it. Knowledge is power, and the Catholic Church held a grip on power for nearly a thousand years before being called out of their hypocrisy and sins by the Protestant movement.
In fact the Protestant movement spread because of the very intransigent of the RCC, and its unwillingness to let loose its grip on power, and of course of its persecution of the Protestants.
How many people were murdered because they dared to think for themselves?
Oh yes the Catholic Church has a lot to answer for.
@34
Aug 25th, 2015 - 06:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0I few on this site have stated the Pope was not holding the placard, but at one point he was. I have only been able to find photographs. Video would have facilitated a more useful interpretation of events.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34002151
Most wars were started in the name of religion, just think about it. It is a group of people trying to impose their ideas on others. All religion sucks, wake up there is no better person than oneself.
Aug 25th, 2015 - 07:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0Popesy needs to clean his own house before he worries about the houses of any others.
Aug 25th, 2015 - 07:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Catholics have done more to damage Latam than any other single institution and in doing so have damaged the cause of Christendom.
Native peoples and the poor have disproportionally suffered this burden.
Popesy is a man and is demonstrating once again the political nature of his office as well as his limited understanding of economics and the Gospels.
Popesy: Fully fund the archdiocese of Milwaukee and try to make whole those whom the Catholic Church and its agents have damaged.
Don't violate the law.
Harboring felons is a felony.
Conspiring for a felon to avoid prosecution is a felony.
Suppressing evidence is felony.
These anti-Catholic posts are amazing! Before becoming a Catholic I was a member of the Church of England for over 50 years - there is very little difference between these two branches of Christendom yet all we have here are criticisms of the church of Rome. Strange!
Aug 25th, 2015 - 07:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Francisco is a Malvinista in a dress and with a fantastic sales department.. he has sold is soul so many times.... he waves HIS national flag.. he wouldn't touch the British one because he is not a universal person. Not the rightful successor or Peter, just an Argentinian who understands Spanish and politics very well and as such is expected to corrupt his office to help his friends as any Argentine would do. Francisco made a “mistake” on the full front page and he sent a mate who nobody knows to give some description of an explanation in the classified adds if you can find them. .. This was at a crucial time for his fellow Argentinian friend Cristina who visits him every other day.. this was no mistake. If it was a mistake then the “universal” pope should stand by a card asking the Argentines to sit down with the British and that includes the Islanders who have been living on the Falklands for longer than the implanted European population of Buenos Aires and the Patagonia. It is the Argentines who will not sit down to talk. The talks the malvinista Francisco wants are the ones set down by Cristina in his constitution and is supposed to end with the hand over of British territory and British people for Argentina to colonise all because its fascist politicians decided to invent a claim in the 1940's. The dispute of today has absolutely nothing to do with anything from the 180o's.
Aug 25th, 2015 - 01:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Holy Father should make a personal statement in which he confirms that he will take no part in the matter of the illegal efforts of Argentina to press for sovereignty of the Falklands archipelago.
Aug 25th, 2015 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0To us British its all white noise. It has no significance other than giving us something to giggle at. The Pope is not on anyones radar here, he occasionally appears on tv waving from a Popemobile and we all wonder at the ignorant devotion of the crowds whilst noticing its mostly the poor providing the adulation. That says it all - Catholic Country=poor, ignorant, uneducated who at the same time are hypocrites subscribing to a faith whilst ignoring his tenants.
Aug 25th, 2015 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for the Malvinistas - yawwwn...
It's obvious that this 'stunt' was organised for 'home' consumption as the board is in Spanish. If it been intended to embarrass the Brits it would have been in English. apart from the fact that most Brits don't give two Funkeys Mucks about what the Pope thinks, does or says.
Aug 25th, 2015 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm old enough that I can remember when everyone went to mass on Sundays and if the priest said 'shit' we all heaved and strained. Now the only people who go to mass are old ladies, retired nuns and a slightly confused stray cat.
The Church brought it on itself by it's arrogance.
@45 I am neither an old lady, nor a retired nun nor, indeed, a slightly confused stray cat! What biased nonsense!
Aug 25th, 2015 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 46
Aug 25th, 2015 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0After being Church of England for 50 years before converting, I was thinking that you might have been Ann Widdecombe, or Tony Blair : )
Boy there are sure a lot of losers on this forum - Millet
Aug 25th, 2015 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@46
Aug 25th, 2015 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry Gord I didn't mean you personally, I was talking about my local church St Pat's in Dingle which is the only church that I ever have reason to visit.
Honest, I didn't mean anything personal
kind regards.
@47 Trunce
Aug 25th, 2015 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bingo! I am Ann Widdecombe!
@41 gordo1
Aug 25th, 2015 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not suggesting that other religions are flawed, they are, and they are all irrelevant.
But this thread is about the Catholic Church and the Pope, and I, Britworker and anyone else has the right to our views on it.
I'm sorry if that offends you, but the very existence of the Catholic Church offends me. You see I was one of those children who was abused by both Priests and Nuns. I have seen the true ugly face of the RCC. My abusers got away Scott free with their crimes perpetrated against me and so many others, protected by the Church, and the belief that was drummed into people that the Priest could never do wrong. So when children complained of the abuse they weren't believe because brainwashed, blinded fools refused to see what was happening.
I consider myself lucky, though. I was only physically abused, not sexually like so many disturbing cases that the RCC are trying to bury, but if any soldier, police officer or member of the general public had done what the so called people of God did, then they would've been arrested for child abuse, put on an offenders register and NEVER allowed near children again.
I respect your right to believe whatever you want to believe. You can at least show myself, Britworker and others the same courtesy. You don't have to agree with us but you should respect our right to our own opinions. So please stop with the 'Holier than Thou' martyr act. It doesn't suit you.
@LEPRecon
Aug 25th, 2015 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand your experiences. But the perpetrators of the sins committed against you and others are not, by a long way, the majority in the Catholic Church and, of course, other faiths within Christendom, too, have suffered these horrific and sad abuses. I do not condone them.
However, there are millions of Christians whose faith transcends these evil deeds and who condemn them, as I do - and these deeds must never be ignored and will never be pardoned.
You say “I respect your right to believe whatever you want to believe. You can at least show myself, Britworker and others the same courtesy.” As far as I can see I have not at any time criticised your beliefs or lack of them. Having reviewed what I have posted all I have done is robustly defend those of us who are Christians and, especially, Roman Catholics.
You are clearly more delicate than even I am!
The leadership of the Catholics refuses to fully embrace the steps necessary to end the abuse of its children, to allow the courts to punish the abusers and to make an attempt at compensating its acknowledged victims.
Aug 25th, 2015 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#51
Aug 25th, 2015 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I always thought that you had psychological 'hang-ups'
Perhaps you might vent your anger and tell us about what the Catholic Church did in South America.And then you might contrast that with what the Protestant church did in Asia and Africa.It might have a cathartic healing effect and remove some of your anger and reduce the feeling that you are verbally violent with people who find great inner peace in prayer and confession.
I really don't see any point in attacking people for their respective faiths (including atheism) or lack of interest in the matter.. Nowadays, we're all entitled to believe what we want in the Western world. We must all try and avoid being narrow minded.
Aug 26th, 2015 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0@51 Please don't respond to the moron @54. Not worth it.
Aug 26th, 2015 - 09:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@53 Your statement is quite wrong!
Aug 26th, 2015 - 01:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the Vatican nor its Bank will open its financial records to an outside audit to determine to what extent Nasti deposits have been repatriated to their rightful heirs.
Aug 26th, 2015 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#56
Aug 26th, 2015 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you done an online assessment of my intelligence quota or are you,SA you normally do,operating on the emotional
level that you normally operate on.You are very confident of your importance and even have the temerity to think that others can look to you for mentoring.
Perhaps you would be better employed by putting your take on things rather than looking for allies to your own tenuous views.
Think more and read less might be a remedy.But you will know best,won't you.
@59. LOL.
Aug 26th, 2015 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0WHAT YOU DON'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND.
Aug 26th, 2015 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The same false democrats, who often give us lessons of democracy, underestimate the resolutions from the U. N. that call both countries to resume the negotiations, to find a solution for this conflict.
Anybody who studies deeply about this question, like me, will see that the case has strong and weak aspects for both nations, beside, according to public international right, self determination isn't applied for absolutly all people under any circunstance, that's why, it's highly arguable to think that the question of the sovereignty must be discussed only if the islanders wish it.
I will always agree on the idea of taking this case to the I. C. J., in fact, in 1884 and in 1888, Arg. suggested taking the cause to the arbitration, which was rejected by the U. K., but in 1947, Britain manifested that it would be disposed to discuss about the cases of the dependencies from the islands (South Georgia and Sandwich), but it hand't included the Malvinas in that proposal, after that year, none of the two countries proposed again to take the question to an arbitration, perhaps, both aren't sure of getting a positive result, if the case is analized at the I. C. J.
It's well known that thieves never return what they steal, that's why, it's hightly probable that Arentina never recovers the sovereignty of the islands, meanwhile, we will keep on hearing many ignorants who usually remind us about the genocide that the argentine state committed against our originary populations, during the dessert campaign in 1880, however what not many people know is that, even despite that terrible fact, the claims and the rights of our originary populations are included in our constitution, however, in the case of the U. K., it has always deprived Argentina of exercising it's rights over the islands since 1833. It's well known also that the war ordered by the criminal junta, will always be Britain's best excuse to reject the dialogue between both countries.
@61 axel arg
Aug 27th, 2015 - 06:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0From the little that one can understand from your prattle it seems to be quite a good FICTIONAL account of matters. You really must go back to the history books!
@61: “ that Arentina never recovers the sovereignty of the islands” & “always deprived Argentina of exercising it's rights over the islands since 1833” & “ best excuse to reject the dialogue between both countries”.
Aug 28th, 2015 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse 01. Argentina never had sovereignty to start with. Vernet petitioned the British government of the day to set up a business in the Islands. The business failed, people weren't paid, there was murder......
2. Argentina never had any rights to exercise over British territory. Again, the Islands were never part of Argentina; not on maps, not even through proximity.
3. Argentina refused to take notice of UN Resolution 502, demanding that they leave the Falklands peaceably. Since then your government refused to sit down to talks (Timerman), after they were told they would have to talk with the Islanders about sovereignty. Self-determination is part of the UN Charter and is the right of every country on the planet, to deny it is to deny the UN and what it stands for, which Argentina is doing. Until then there was discussion. Argentina backed out, not the British and certainly not the Falkland Islands.
http://www.clarin.com/deportes/futbol/Javier_Mascherano-Malvinas-Papa_Francisco-Evo_Morales_0_1420058512.html
Aug 28th, 2015 - 07:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just another boludo!
The Pope has betrayed the Vatican by taking sides in a political dispute. No surprise to anyone, he is just proving how unfit he is to hold this office. He is also insulting all those British soldiers who gave their lives to liberate the Falklands from the cowardly Argentinian invaders. A man of peace? Never. He is stoking the animosity between the United Kingdom and Argentina.
Aug 28th, 2015 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ezekielman @ 65
Aug 28th, 2015 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why don't you read the article properly? The pope seems to have had a regrettable Peronist past, but since he became pope he's been bending over backwards to avoid taking sides. When did he insult the British causualties from the Falklands conflict? You made that up. How is he stoking animosity between the UK and Argentina at present?
Bending over backwards? Until now, when he has shown his support for the corrupt, criminal Kirchner regime. Dialogue, meaning negotiations on the future of the Falklands, will never happen, and why should they when the population of the islands have demonstrated almost 100 per cent that they wish to remain free and independent, with their historic links to the United Kingdom?
Aug 28th, 2015 - 11:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Pope has stoked animosity for many years by expressing sorrow for the Argentinians who died in the Falklands War of 1982 while ignoring the British soldiers who gave their lives to liberate the islands from their cowardly invaders. Very, very Christian to forget our dead. But just what anyone should expect from an Argentinian archbishop who encourages Kirchner's delusions and illusions over her great “global cause”. What a sick woman she is, when poverty and starvation are destroying millions of Argentinians.
@67 ezekielman
Aug 29th, 2015 - 05:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Since assuming the Papacy there is no evidence that Pope Francis has uttered one word to support the Argentine quest to assume sovereignty of the Falklands archipelago. The Vatican, of which he is Head of State, is totally neutral in the matter.
However, there is no doubt that, as an Argentine, he may well have private opinions to the contrary.
#67
Aug 29th, 2015 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are a highly emotional person arn't you?
Your assessment of pope Francis is not the best is it?
You confuse Francis with his position as pope with his time as Archbishop as suits yourself without considering the roles are different.The Catholic Church in the UK represented by the archbishop of westminister will have commented on the British loss of life in the Malvinas war,I would assume?
Your problem is that you think everything is built around the UK but it isn't.When you had your empire you might be forgiven for thinking that but the reversals of nearly all those conquests and still thinking that way,I imagine is because you haven't lost the benefits of that chapter in your long history yet.
The people occupying the Malvinas are not free and independant as you say and their dependence on the British demonstrates that.They are neither and have no place for themselves in the UN!
Britain settled the Falklands in 1765, before Argentina even existed. The Falklands have an English name. Argentina does not even have a Spanish name for the islands, it is reduced to using a French name. How sad.
Aug 29th, 2015 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#70
Aug 29th, 2015 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When gold coast war renamed Ghana you must have cried for many days sobbing out loud '' how ungrateful for all we have done for them can some people be''
A name is a name it's not the reality
And 98.5% votes only happen in Stalinist USSR and occupied colonial terroritories.
Yuleno @ 69
Aug 29th, 2015 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Congratulations! You finally got something almost right!
“You confuse Francis with his position as pope with his time as Archbishop as suits yourself without considering the roles are different.”
The “as suits yourself” bit is unnecessarily aggressive, but I suppose that's just your nature,
Pity about the rest of your post, which is the usual Malvinista nonsense. Why don't you invest your energies in doing something about the 40% of Argentina's children going hungry? It is clear and understandable that the Falklanders will have nothing to do with your country.
#72
Aug 29th, 2015 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Should I be grateful for your approval of one part and diligent about your advice on the second part,or respond as Crazy Horse would have and ignore you and your smallpox infected blankets.
I would prefer hear judgements from the poor people of Argentina that concern you so much when you have such a problem with a few economic and political migrants generally affect by your past inadequate rule.
This post is observational and not violent,please feel free to make contrary observation of any part of it.I come in peace!
The Falklands Islanders just have to watch what is happening across the South Atlantic to understand how fortunate they are to be free, independent, prosperous and British. The Argentine government stopped releasing statistics about poverty in 2013 and now everyone can see why. The latest figures from the Argentine Catholic University state that 29 percent of the population are living below the poverty line. No wonder Kirchner wants to hide the facts, when she is boasting that Argentina’s standard of living is higher than Germany’s. What a joke.
Aug 29th, 2015 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yuleno @ 73
Aug 29th, 2015 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Uruguay has no problem with economic and political migrants; perhaps you think I'm European or Argentine. Last year our gov't (mistakenly, in my opinion) brought in about 120 people, tops, and some of them have already left. A second batch has been put on hold.
You're right about avoiding my blankets. I haven't got smallpox, but I do have a stinking cold. But actually I don't recall asking you to share my bed.
You didn't mention sharing your and neither did I.Are trying to put words in my mouth?
Aug 29th, 2015 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yuleno @ 76
Aug 30th, 2015 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0“respond as Crazy Horse would have and ignore you and your smallpox infected blankets”
You brought up the matter of my blankets, not I. Sounds both unhealthy and unnatural to me. And I'm not trying to put words (or anything else) in your mouth.
May I suggest:
1. You get a sense of humour.
2. You get a country you can be proud of.
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