MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
UN Assembly overwhelmingly supports Argentina in the sovereign debt debate
The United Nations General Assembly has approved a resolution put forward by Argentina regarding sovereign debt restructuring, which seeks to limit the movement of speculative funds in influencing such actions. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesPerhaps then, these nations that are all in favor of this lend themselves money when in need. This is not the forum for financial arrangements. Written into the contracts as most are already makes more sense. This is nothing more than a political stunt. Go join the BRICS Argentina, they are flying high now.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0'For the Argentine president, the resolution establishes “the basic principles that will control sovereign debt principles, with the objective of ”avoid the continued predations of the vulture funds.”
Sep 11th, 2015 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0They do know that they still owe the money, this is for the future, or like the Falklands will they try and retrospectively apply these rules to their own case.
I get the feeling they think this is a 'get out jail free card'.
Who in their right minds are going to lend money to these banana countries when you KNOW that they will NOT pay back the principal or indeed the interest.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 10:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Before this UN resolution, Argentina had an unpaid debt.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0After this fancy, sugar-coated all-rainbows-and-love Argentina still has the same debt and a resolution that is not applicable to its case.
... and these kirchnerite SOB celebrate.
Argentina you are an example of struggle and perseverance to the world.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Congratulations!
Lovely resolution. Unfortunately, another one that is NON-BINDING. Worth noting that the world's six leading nations voted against. @2 and 4, it's noted that it makes no difference to the argie debt. Still has to be paid, argies. Is international theft still grounds for war? Or, in the case of argieland, total occupation. Don't worry, argies. If you don't resist, American, British, Canadian, German, Israeli and Japanese troops will not harm you. You will be able to learn to laugh at morons like Brasileiro. You could have the chance to declare your perseverance and struggle against your corrupt, criminal, lying, thieving “governments”. And ask for the world's help. The world could throw your dishonest politicians into prison. As well as your corrupt police. It could work through them all to find those responsible for deaths. And execute them.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 06 Conqueror
Sep 11th, 2015 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Im agree with you specially that 3 or 4 biggest financial market are dissagree with this resolution , but i guess that in the spirit of these resolution is to get in an equal position private debtors that have the chance to renegociate 100% of theirs debts with out third party interferance, or bankrrupcity , that sovereignty debtors ( countries ) that they not have the same chance.
Honestly when you sign a contract you are understanding the conditions and nowadays if a hold out want to litigate from here up to the eternity is the NY law , Im not sure if London have the a similar law as NY, I guess they are differences.
But Argentina lost the oportunity to renegociate with holds out 4 years ago
I think most people would agree that we need to find a way for countries to declare bankruptcy. But while countries continue to insist on sovereignty, which only gets waived at the transaction documentation level, there is no organization that can impose and enforce the terms and conditions of a bankruptcy. And such terms and conditions need to be enforced - political regimes must be prepared to take the consequences for their mismanagement. Until such an organization is set up and given the necessary powers, debtor countries will continue to stagger from one crisis to the next and politicians will continue to keep their snouts resolutely buried in the trough.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In this world are honest people, and dishonest people. Those that defend dishonest people are as bad as the dishonest. Complicity is also a crime.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 03:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Countries, companies and also individuals all have a legitimate right after bankruptcy to renegotiate with creditors.
Anybody that do not agree with that is a little rat. Like that war monger of Conqueror (Is funny a little hittler like that call him self Conqueror ). Poor thing.
And how many times has Argentina renegaded on paying back HONEST PEOPLE that lent them money when Argentina needed it? Thieving bastards. Just pay up, who in their right mind will lend money to a thieving community
Sep 11th, 2015 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@9. But then places like argieland are inherently dishonest. You use the word “renegotiate”. Did you note that Kirchner (dead) told bondholders to agree with what he was prepared to offer or get nothing? That's not negotiation, it's “force majeure”. Much like Hitler liked to “ask” countries if they wanted to be ruled by Nazi Germany.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Hey ho, anybody that doesn't agree with having their money stolen is what? As in 1939, I and Britain will stand for what is right. Britain tried negotiation. Hitler refused. Britain tried again. Hitler refused. And now Britain tells scumland to be honest and truthful. Scumland refuses. Britain asks again for scumland to be honest. Faggotland refuses. There doesn't need to be war. Faced with a major military power that can deploy overwhelming ground forces, more air power than ever seen, the most advanced naval forces and nuclear ballistic missiles, argieland might be advised to surrender. Argieland, like Nazi Germany, has no case to be considered a “country”.
Probably best for argieland to be flushed down a latrine.
Overwhelming support and an historic achievement for Argentina in the world forum, and a slap in the face of Paul Singer.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We know this work at the UN does not chase away the current vulture harassment of Argentina. But 136 countries have endorsed nine principles that would, once implemented, prevent rapacious financiers from bleeding countries that are in the water to their neck.
Of course, the countries who are host to most of those 21st century pirates voted against with dubious pretexts, including the U.S. and the U.K. Shame on them. Pity Canada too, still shackled by a regressive government.
“Who in their right mind will lend money to a 'thieving community,'” asks golfcronie at #10.
Well, I will tell you who and why.
Lending money to developing countries has been, most of the time, designed to profit lenders--not borrowers.
Your own question exposes the contradiction: why lend money to an unstable country, or a country governed by an illegal dictatorship? And the answer is: to make even juicier profits--that is why!
We need to remember that even Nestor Kirchner's determination to pay the country's foreign debt was met with criticism from some who wanted to investigate the origin and circumstances of the borrowings, with the possibility of declaring them contracted, and therefore null and void.
Just an example:
http://en.mercopress.com/2015/09/09/paraguay-refuses-to-acknowledge-us-85m-debt-from-dictator-s-time
(12) Mr. Massot
Sep 11th, 2015 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I was (and still am) one of those who wanted to investigate the origin and circumstances of the borrowings, with the possibility of declaring them contracted, and therefore null and void....
Call me a dreamer :-(
Quique.....who will lend to developing nations now?
Sep 11th, 2015 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0One thing that is good in Argentina........when I head to Patagonia......the blue dollar exchange should be really ripe......more bang from my buck......and a new president.
@ 13
Sep 11th, 2015 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0NO, you are NOT a dreamer, you are a LUNATIC.
Always have been and will certainly always be so.
Glad to straighten this out for you.
@12
Sep 11th, 2015 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Correct me if I am wrong but if you borrow money and contract to pay it back and don't, is that not contractually illegal? You obviously have not had a mortgage have you? You try and borrow money in any bank or building society and not pay it back. See what would happen you would lose your house or you would have to NEGOCIATE a rate acceptable to both parties. Perhaps you could enlighten us, does that not apply in Argentina or Canada?
Jesus Christ! If the UN runs world finance like it runs the rest of its responsibilities.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 08:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0STOP THE WORLD, I WANT TO GET OFF!
Oh come now RC, think of all those wars the UN prevented......lol. Now, what...136 nations can be deadbeats like Argentina. Maybe the free countries can introduce a trade rule to the UN(why not it is now a financial regulator) that states if a nation renege on financial obligations of one's country, the have a right to cut off the defualting countries imports.
Sep 11th, 2015 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#16 golfcronie
Sep 12th, 2015 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Correct me if I am wrong but if you borrow money and contract to pay it back and don't, is that not contractually illegal?”
I commend you on being so scrupulous about others' contractual obligations.
However, in certain cases, individuals or corporations can have recourse to bankruptcy.
The bankrupted pay back a portion of their debts, and once a certain amount of creditors agree to a repayment plan, all others must come to the fold. No holdouts here.
Countries cannot become bankrupt, but in extreme cases they declare default. Default carries a number of adverse consequences for a country, so it's not a free ride.
Both processes replaced the old ways that placed individuals in prison for debts or sent gunboats to force debtor countries to pay. Captain Poppy seems to be proposing some similar backward measures at #18.
In our days, a bankrupt will make payments to creditors in an amount equal to “the amount of total income a bankrupt receives that exceeds the amount needed to maintain a reasonable standard of living.”
Also, the paper below points out to debtors (and creditors) rights. Oh yes! Debtors still have rights--even when they are bankrupt.
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/eng/br01861.html
If only Argentina put as much effort into not defaulting..... then it wouldn't have to worry about what happens after defaulting.
Sep 12th, 2015 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0But what would I know coming from a country that has never defaulted.
Poor Quique.......always the bridesmaid and never the bride. Take your family and leave Canada Quique. You are lucky I am not a Canadian. I would be pissed of that you and yours infested my homeland.
Sep 12th, 2015 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And BTW.....when someone is bankrupt, they do not get to “dictate” the terms of re-financing, they mutually agree to it, unlike what Nasty “bug eyed” nestor did.
Tell up Quique, what investor with funds and the right mind will lend to those 136 backward thinking countries, who can decide on a whim,
“Naw.........I decided now to pay this back. Hasta luego amigo”
The countries that either “abstained” or voted against it have the money.
Good luck Chuck!
Quique.....would you like for me to bring back some mate' or chimichurri for you?....or Marroc?
FOR A BETTER CAPITALISM.
Sep 12th, 2015 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Although it's well known that this historic resolution doens't change in absolut our conflict with the vultures, not only because it's non-binding, but also because 8 of every ten debt restructurings are made under the jurisdictions from New York or London, which voted against the resolution, however, this new law will be a great instrument of politic pressure, due to before it's existance, there wasn't any debate in the world about a law for statal debt restructurings, now it won't be so easy for the vultures and their adict judges to do what they did with Argentina.
All people in this forum and in the whole world should celebrate this resolution, beyond whether they like kirchnerism or not, however, because of the mediocre mentality of some misserable people, who still can't see the danger that the vultures represents for the sistem, the only one thing that they can do, is to underestimate Argentina and it's efforts to try to carry on a better capitalism.
No danger to my country. We just don't default.
Sep 12th, 2015 - 11:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So what you are saying is that all of this will have no effect?
Another successful Argentonean government initiative. All piss and dribble.
@12. Of course there was “overwhelming support”. 12 in south america, another 6 from central america, 54 from africa, 17 from the middle east. That's 89 for a start. 47 from asia. And there's 136. I don't think I'll be far out. And what do all these countries have in common? Poorly run and economically unviable. Russia totters. China crumples. 136 countries who saw an opportunity to say “Yah, boo, sucks” to their creditors. The determination of Kirchner (dead) to pay argieland's debts was all well and good. As far as it went. Instead he stole. Realistically, Kirchner (dead) effectively stole US$170 billion. Not counting the US$1 million he stole from the province of Santa Cruz. How many thousands of people suffered, or died, as a result of Kirchner's thefts? And that is where the “principles” go wrong. In an advanced society, such as the United Kingdom, if you sell a financial product, such as payment protection insurance, in a dubious way, you get forced to repay those that you duped. Where is the “principle” that would force a corrupt, criminal state like argieland to repay what it obtained fraudulently? Considering the number of courts and international organisations that argieland ignores in order to continue on its thieving way, it is to be hoped that people who might consider buying bonds will demand that a number of these “principles” be specifically excluded. Unfortunately, there will always be people who are desperate or who might have more money than sense. Where is the “principle” that corrupt, criminal, fraudulent states like argieland can be dragged before the International Court of Justice where “real” justice can be meted out. A court that could demand that forces be deployed to enforce a total blockade by air, land and sea. A deployment with no costs as the criminal would have to pay for it. What fun to see British, American, German, Canadian, Israeli and Japanese troops and warships deployed. Combat aircraft overhead. Assets seized and sold.
Sep 13th, 2015 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0@12 Massot you talk about “implementing” the terms of this resolution. How is that going to happen ?
Sep 13th, 2015 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#22 You do realize that is is NOT a law of anyone's land unless in one of those 136 countries it is voted into a law.
Sep 13th, 2015 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Axis, where do you suppose one of the 136 nations that voted in the UN to be able to default at will without consequences will getting financing from for when it needs money?
Do you suppose the defaults will be built into the rates?
Steep discounted proceeds on the issue?
The countries that voted in the UN are already in or near dire straights. Keep us informed how they do voting into law in their respective countries.
Axis.......go work on getting Argentina into a BRICS, because after all, they are doing so well.
@3 golfcronie ”Who in their right minds will lend money to these banana countries when you know that they will NOT pay back the principal or indeed the interest?
Sep 14th, 2015 - 02:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Up to this moment China and Russia have already done, if your main premise (the known and sure insolvency of this kind of borrowers) keeps right. Besides, both support the Argentine initiative. Now, if you think they belong to the loonies...the rest of the countries might entertain certain doubts.
21 Cptn Poppy
Sep 17th, 2015 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Take your family and leave Canada Quique. You are lucky I am not a Canadian. I would be pissed of that you and yours infested my homeland.”
Wow. Isn't this statement a thing of beauty?
Tell you what, Captain. If you were Canadian you would probably a different person. I have learned a lot from this country--as I have from other countries, including my home country, Argentina. Canada has traditionally been a peacekeeper rather than war monger; it strives to balance rights and obligations; it supports diversity of opinions, and makes a point of respecting people from any origin.
So with your permission, I will decide on where to reside as much as to hold up to my convictions. Have a nice day.
Of course you will Quique. Why? Because your life is overwhelming better being in Canada, or anywhere for that matter, than it is in Argentina.
Sep 18th, 2015 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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