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Montevideo, June 17th 2019 - 15:22 UTC

Pressed by unions Macri confirms promise to exempt end of the year bonus from income tax

Thursday, December 10th 2015 - 08:32 UTC
Full article 74 comments

Half-year bonuses paid out this month will be exempt from income tax, Argentine president-elect Mauricio Macri announced, backtracking from statements he made on Sunday, when he said there was not enough money to do just that. Read full article


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  • chronic

    Whiff, on the first pitch.

    Dec 10th, 2015 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    The Unions say BOOO! And Macri bursts into tears!

    I hope it's going to get better than this very poor start.

    Dec 10th, 2015 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Zaphod102

    Hopefully this is a tactical move on Macri's part. He's given them something but should expect something in return...

    Dec 10th, 2015 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Yeah, he is not stupid. CFK is looking for an opportunity to cause unrest so Macri needs to play the long game. Keeping them onside now will go a long way in the future. Nestor knew it but stroppy CFK didn't know how to handle them.

    Dec 10th, 2015 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip

    Much prefer a government that will change its mind and admit it was wrong and/or difficult than one one that just barged ahead without consultation or reason.

    Dec 10th, 2015 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    I like to think that he knows how to choose his battles. On day one in the office and the year end bonuses, why bother fighting here with something that is more tactical then strategic. I see more skirmishes down the road that are far more important year end bonuses.

    Dec 10th, 2015 - 07:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Its an irrelevant issue. Top priorities are to stop printing pesos, get rid of subsidies, get rid of the 100s of thousands of lazyKs out of the gov't on all levels, stop the free money to poor people and let the economy come into a natural balance without the nutty socialist policies ( btw I recommend the same to whomever takes over for Odumbo)

    Dec 10th, 2015 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    @7 I am on the ground here in Buenos Aires Provence and agreewith you.
    No more plan vago!

    Dec 10th, 2015 - 10:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip

    That might be so but he has more than one day to do it.

    Much of the system is rigged against him. So he is better to be strategic and precise than blunt.

    It is the different between a scalpel and a machete. One can help heal a body while one can only destroy a body.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 12:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    9. You're complete wrong because you don't understand the mentality of Peronistas.
    He needs to fix the economy like you rip off a and all at once.
    Get the pain over so he can govern.
    Otherwise every time he tries to do something the Unions and the FithyKs ( becasue they are far from gone) will protest, stop work, stop traffic, destroy stuff, etc etc etc.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • British_Kirchnerist

    An amazing number of puff pieces and good news stories on Argentina on here I must say, from a site that never seemed to like it much before, wonder why that is ;)

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 01:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip


    Guess the articles weren't against Argentina per se but the idiots running it. Seems you've just worked out what many of us already knew.


    That is your opinion. And as Macri isn't going to follow it on every task then I guess you'll have a nice point of difference to pontificate on. Being more pragmatic and realistic I am currently not surprised that he isn't attempting to fix every problem in his first month.

    I don't expect wholesale reorganisation of the economy in a single term. His aim will be to reduce costs enough and grow the economy enough so that he has a good foundation to run for a second term.

    The idea is to get reelected and change more of the system over 8 years.; that way some of the reforms will be up to 8 years old and harder to reverse. Not become a single term president that caused a deep recession which will empower populists like the Kirchners to waltz in again.

    Seems it is you that doesn't understand Argentina.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 03:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jonaz_BsAs

    The Argentine economy is so badly screwed up right now that the best option would be to “fix” the economy in one abrupt move. Such a move would include

    - devaluating the peso
    - closing the exchange rate gap and free floating the peso
    - firing of 0,5-1M public employees (this will be extremely hard to do but absolutely necessary)
    - fixing INDEC
    - adjusting the taxes -
    - exiting default

    In order to do all this, Macri would need IMF/WB to extend a loan of some 25-50 bn USD. If he ends up doing nothing but meddling with the Unions and Peronistas alike for the next 4 years, Argentina will just continue its decline.

    Abrupt change is desperately needed; Macri will not be able to control the populists anyway - he might as well go for broke the way I see it.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 11:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Skip, As I've said before you're not as smart as you think you are. If macri doesn't fix this quickly he'll never mae it to the next term. Do you know nothing of their history?

    13. I think an IMF bailout could be arranged, he's going to need it to keep the auto plants running anyway.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip

    Fixing doesn't have to be fast and all at once as you want.

    It doesn't matter how smart I think I am, because I guarantee that Macri will be more likely to align with my ideas than yours.

    They are already.

    Like I said, you will now have ample opportunity to pontificate and lecture and predict disaster just as you always do.

    I know Argentina's history, which is why Macri won't do what you hope.

    When he suddenly does everything all at once then you can tell me I was wrong. But so far I'm not. You are.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    One day of speeches and partying and you've got him pegged?

    You're just young and dumb. When you get older you will realize what an idiot you were when you think back on it.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @15 Ignore it. Some people are desperate for Argentina to deteriorate even further and for everyone to starve. He wants the ultimate revenge for his failure in Argentina.

    Skip, you show a lot more maturity with your thoughts. Macri cannot move fast as he needs to see the full extent of the mess the finances are in. The K's have been lying for years about inflation and the number of people living in poverty. He cannot isolate sections of society or divide the country further into the haves and have nots because that will fuel a return to Kirchnerism. Besides, he is the President of all Argentines and has to serve them all. To only take care of the rich and to starve the poor is exactly what caused the rise of Castro, Chavez, Kirchner et al.

    Macri understands that wealth will come from investment and the creation of jobs so people can move out of poverty in a civilised fashion. Argentina could have a great future if he manages to unite the country. It is not going to be easy with the Kirchnerites creating havoc in the background.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Hey Skip, back off, yb knows everything so don't make an ass out of yourself. I'm 57 and he called me old, now he is calling you young and dumb.
    He's an economic advisor
    A foreign relations advisor
    A political advisor
    I think that you would be best served to put your tail between your legs and just listen to him, afterall he's from OZ.......but like Nostrils, he think's he resides elsewhere.
    Ok, now let's brace for his entertaining, yet penetrating taunts and insults. I mean, we did miss his appearance over that past two months as he focused on his other two names. One thing is certain, no one puts out as much hatred as he, save for Donald Dump.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Oh Elaine, I love your hand wringing and rose colored glasses, its so predictable.

    You both remind me of the dreary dreamy Dems here in the USA. We'll be nice to people and they will like us, The doom of Climate change will kill us all, they have nutty out of step ideas and they think anyone who doesn't agree with them is crazy.

    Argentina has a long long long history of not living up to agreements when the going gets tough. Do you think people won't remember?

    They need an IMF bailout and everything that goes along with it. If they do that and take the pain for a generation or two they'll be on the same track and Chile and will probably succeed.
    It won't happen quickly nor without a lot of pain.

    Elaine, I am happy that the world has woken up and is throwing out the PC liberals out of office, the PC bureaucrats and do-gooder NGOs will be the next to go. I'd start saving now if I were you.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 02:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @19 Yankeeboy, a Trumpette to his tiny toes. I am sure you are totally with your leader and wanting to ban all Muslims from the U.S.

    You just want the 'filthy animals', as you call Argentines, to starve to death. You have said it often enough. All because you could not hack it there and they outplayed you in business.

    Still trying to guess my occupation? You have no idea.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    I was on a 5 year vacation when I was in Argentina. I didn't do any business there. Where I had trouble with the lying scumbags was in renting my homes.
    They only like the parts of contracts they agree with and all the screaming and banging thier fists on the table only made me laugh.

    I would also like you to show me where I've supported Trump. He is surely serving a purpose calling out the nutbag Dems and their insane policies. In their head, terrorist attacks means we need gun control. Total nuts.

    I really don't care what you do. My guess is you just bother people all day thinking you're doing some good when in the long term your ruining other people lives.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @21 Oh, but you do care what I do, you care so much. If you didn't you wouldn't keep bringing it up. You are completely wrong, of course, as you usually are. I hope I bother you as you don't have a conscience of your own to do it.

    We discussed Trump in the past and you had quite positive words to say about him when I was stating what a bigoted twit he is. Or maybe you just said that to disagree with me. Next you will be telling us you watch Fox News - the channel for the small-minded and ignorant. They love to play on peoples prejudices and fears of which you have many.

    I am guessing you didn't laugh too much in Argentina since you packed up and left. You failed to see that you have to play their game and by their rules.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 04:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    Forget the nonsense about having to deal with the financial aspects of the problem that is Argentina, they WILL be dealt with because there is already enough goodwill from the West to ensure that that any reasonable person will be able to get the necessary loans and it seems that Macri is reasonable so far.

    Now please tell me who out there has had hands-on experience of dealing with the non-white collar Unions at let's say regional level? Anybody? EB? YB? Captain Poppy certainly not in his military career. Skip I doubt it given his young age and I suspect Ilsen might be the only one who has come close.

    Well, I have, at local, regional and national level and I can say this from experience that getting the relationship wrong from the start is going to make the rest of it superfluous.

    The Unions in Uruguay are a complete bunch of arseholes and care for nobody but perpetuating their own structure and can anybody say that they are any better in Argentina? Of course they are not and are probably much worse.

    Giving in to them without getting anything in return, especially when he had originally denied them, will come back to bite him.

    Most blue collar / workers Unionists are not educated people, they got where they are because nobody wanted the job: that is what the problem will be.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Macri was honouring a promised payment, that's all. He didn't capitulate in a negotiation and he know has some goodwill in the bank for the future.

    But we don't need Macri because we have……..drum roll…..SuperChrisR to the rescue. He is the ONLY person who can handle the unions because he is ……SuperChrisR.

    Self-praise is no praise.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Elain, for all I know you could be a BA stewardess with a fat ass that can barely make it down the aisle. I really don't care.

    I know as much about you as I need or want.

    I've said many times I had a great time in Argentina until the poverty, filth, laziness and corruption got too much for me. Luckily I could escape and did.

    Every news source now has an agenda if you don't think so you're dumber than I thought.

    You can try to re-write my posts but I don't lie so I am consistent and confident in what I said.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @25 Interesting that all your guesses are derogatory about women. It figures. Clearly I make you feel inferior so you need to paint a negative image of a woman. Poor you and your insecurity.

    Really, you expect us to believe you had a great time in Argentina followed by all that bile about “poverty, filth, laziness and corruption got too much for me”. Sure you had a wonderful time and so many good memories. If you had any affection for your time there you would not refer to the people there as 'filthy animals' and wish them to starve. You have major issues about your time there and sit on these threads panting for bad news.

    You certainly are consistent. A revolting individual without a scintilla of compassion in your body.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Wait, are you calling me a liar now?

    I've been consistent, very very consistent in my feeling about Argentina.

    So have you, you think all men hate women. I don't hate women.

    Last time I was on BA the stewardess all had fat asses. Its not derogatory to women pointing out the BA stewardesses could lose a few pounds. Only in your small PC mind did I denigrate a whole class of people. Everything is so offensive with the weepy PC crowd.
    Get over yourself.

    You think I lack compassion, the non-profit boards I sit on and donate to would probably disagree with you. Along with the people who enjoy the 2 parks I fund.

    Silly cow.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 06:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 24 ElaineB
    “Now please tell me who out there has had hands-on experience of dealing with the non-white collar Unions at let's say regional level? Anybody? EB?”

    All you have done with your little personal jibe towards me has undermined your position in what was a genuine question.

    But not to worry, we now know the answer as far as you are concerned: you have never had a real job where you have had to decide the future for those workers who relied on their living by the use of your money that you 'didn't' use (if you have any real money) on 'not' setting up any form of business.

    Too risky for you then! Grow up and face reality by putting your money where your mouth is and let is all see how far you get.

    If you knew anything at all about negotiating with unions at any level you would have realised, like his 'advisors' have, that he did turn them down and then changed his mind. NOT being in a negotiation at the time will be seen as irrelevant. It's the action (good or bad) that will count.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 06:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @27 Hahaha! Keep digging. Let's work through your last post.

    “I've been consistent” Yup I said you are consistent. Consistently revolting.

    “Last time I was on BA the stewardess all had fat asses.” Sure they did. You spent the whole flight checking out the arses of the flight attendants? Really?

    So why did you use that negative image to implant on me just because you don't like me challenging your bigoted views. You can't see you problem can you? Everyone else reading this will see it.

    I am sure you don't hate all women, though I suspect it has been a very long time, if ever, that you had a good relationship with one.

    No, I don't think all men hate women. Not at all. I think YOU hate women deep down and can't help but let it spill out in your posts.

    You do lack compassion. You stated that all subsidies should be immediately removed from the poor in Argentina. That would condemn them to starvation, you heartless old fool. You have a messed up mind.

    If - and it is a big if - you donate any money I am sure it is for the pleasure of rich white men.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 06:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Because the massive unaffordable subsidies have worked so well across the world?
    Stupid Socialist.

    Bigoted now? Liar before?
    Get a grip on yourself.
    You have accused many posters on here of hating women its not just me.

    Do you hate rich white men?
    Do we not deserve pleasure?
    I'm so offended
    Get over yourself you sanctimonious hypocrite.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @30 I have really touched a nerve with you.

    You did not say scrap unaffordable subsidies, you said “stop the free money to poor people”. Something quite different. You really want to starve the poor? Why pick on the poor? And why make it a 'top priority'. You are a terrible person.

    I am pointing out your actual words that are derogatory to women. Own them.

    I don't hate rich white men, I just despise your opinions. I doubt very much that you are rich but I sincerely hope you get everything you deserve.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    You've not touched a nerve, I'm wasting time just like I used to do with Toby before he got boring. I need to leave for an appt in an hour.
    You've got me until then.
    You are a sanctimonious witch and I'm sure its not the first time you've heard it.
    Which words are derogatory to THE WHOLE CLASS OF WOMEN? Point them out please and include the whole sentence.

    You hate everyone who doesn't believe in a rainbowed themed world like Odumbo and the rest of the idiotic Dems in this country or across the world.

    Your liberal ideas have caused more misery than anything I have ever proposed.

    Yes free money to poor people must stop. It creates a generational class of lazy stupid people. It always has it always will.
    Yes it is unaffordable, take a look at anywhere where they have massive give-aways. The USA, UK, France, Germany, Argentina, Venezuela and Brazil by far....there are plenty out there.

    I've never claimed to be rich or white...

    I can tell you think you deserve more than you have. I am very content though.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 07:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    “You are a sanctimonious witch ” “Which words are derogatory” Kinda stupid aren't you. Calling a woman a witch is derogatory to all women. It has been used to persecute women for centuries and still is in parts of the world.

    “Yes free money to poor people must stop.” As a top priority? Really? You are happy to have the starving poor on your conscience? No, wait, you don't have one. What an utterly stupid and heartless proposition. Argentina is a developing country with an economy in tatters. You think starving the poor to death is going to fix anything there? And you would make that a TOP PRIORITY.

    Fortunately you have no power in Argentina (or anywhere) so we don't have to worry about your ludicrous statements.

    With each post you reveal more of your ignorance and ugly character. Keep going.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Calling a woman a witch is derogatory to all women
    I called YOU a witch not all women.
    That's the problem with the PC crowd.

    Oh he called me a name he must hate all women.
    Nope just you.

    Elaine, I think you are a vile vicious person and as terrible as you think I am, I promise you I think you're worse.
    The difference between us is that I have history and facts on my side and all you have are feelings.

    You're a sanctimonious liberal.
    Get over yourself.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @34 Calling ANY woman a witch is derogatory to all women. Let me help you understand. For centuries women have been labelled 'witches' by men to persecute and murder them. It still happens now is some parts of the world. Therefore you choosing to use that word as an insult to a woman is derogatory to all women.

    You cannot stand that I called you out. You proposed starving the poor in Argentina as a top priority. I called you out on it.

    You don't have anything on your side. You make stupid as pig's dribble statements and when it is pointed out to you you start with the whining. The fact that you think the word 'liberal' is an insult speaks volumes.


    Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas.

    Favourable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms.

    (In a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate political and social reform.

    synonyms: tolerant, unprejudiced, unbigoted, broad-minded, open-minded, enlightened,
    (in a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate political and social reform.

    antonyms: narrow-minded, intolerant, lacking, ungenerous, greedy, limited.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 08:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip


    Call me names or insult my intelligence and even try to guess my age. Nothing but ad hominems and quite inconsequential.

    The world is much more complex than your facile predictions, shallow experience and juvenile understanding can seem to fathom. The black and white zero-sum game of winner takes all is a common American mind-set and has served your country well. However such an allure seems to have taken root in China and Russia more so than any western countries and not mine. So I don't subscribe to it. It doesn't make me a leftie just a flexible pragmatist.

    It is instructive how you handle any form of disagreement or criticism. Because you can't. You become petty, vindictive and snide. Your actions and attitude are reminiscent of Maduro, CFK and the far-right such as Putin and Trump than any leader in the US. So I won't make the mistake of generalising about your country just from your actions.

    So while, at times, your posts come close to a truth; the vast majority aren't close nor are they memorable.

    Your stream of predictions reminds me of a theorem that involved monkeys, typewriters and Shakespeare.

    Macri has already disappointed you and lucky you, you have at least four years to tell us what you would do differently or otherwise how it will all end in disaster.

    However all I see is a pragmatic and canny operator who is more aligned with my beliefs so I'll experience less disappointment.


    While I don't doubt you have some great work experiences (even though you discount mine without knowing them), are you really willing to put them up for comparison against someone like Macri who has not only operated in Argentina for his whole life but done it successfully?

    I'd say him recently running BsAs would more than likely be more than adequate experience for his current role than your previous work experience.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    HOOOOORUH!!! go girl.

    Tolerance of those who think differently then oneself is an attribute in short supply in my country.

    Dec 11th, 2015 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @28 No, it was not a genuine question, it was one of your passive aggressive comments. No one is the whole world is as capable or marvellous as SuperChrisR. Tell me, do you run your own fan club?

    I thought your would love your new name ' SuperChrisR' as you give out childish nicknames to everyone and seem rather proud of them. What with that and your sophomoric humour your mind really is stuck in a 6th Form common room mentality.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 01:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Oh Elaine, Am I giving you micro-aggressions? Do you need a safe space?
    What a load of PC crap.

    Go chant on a Campus somewhere. I stand by everything I ever posted.

    The only good thing I can say about Odumbo is that he's done more for the Republican party than the Republicans ever could. The Repubs now control the majority of State Houses, State Gov, Congress and Senate. It hasn't happened in a long time.
    There's a 50/50 chance Hillary will be in jail next year as more and more criminal activity is released through her emails. Then all they have is the Socialist which to most Americans is the same as being labeled a Commie.

    Pops, Dems are the most intolerant beings in this country. Its the party of geriatric old white people claiming to help minorities while in reality they just make them poorer and dumber. Every city that has had problems recently has been run by the Dems for 40+ years. Wake up fool.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @28 SuperChrisR, here is another nickname for you: yankeeboy = Trumpette.

    @39 You think the dictionary definition of 'liberal' is PC crap? Dense much.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Yes its like the term Progressive that has an exact opposite meaning in reality.

    As chronic said, Liberal is a Socialist who's really a commie.
    Leftists have destroyed more lives since the 1900s than all the wars combined.

    You are the problem to what ails the world not the solution.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    We'll just have to wait and see what makes up my country in thinking in 11 months, now won't we? I chuckle for one self proclaimed, well educated and pedigreed (snicker) American, coming straight from the pilgrims (the original Taliban) who must resort to insults and so thin skinned to attack anyone who thinks otherwise.

    What did you parents do to you to full you with so much hatred and anger? To lack so much self confidence to despise those who do not support your way of thinking?

    Merco Press is you life, your outlet to deal with your phobias, insecurities. Whatever you are, you are no doubt one sad and lonely man(assumingly).

    11 months, I will probably still be here occasionally and you no doubt will be slinging insults, attacking women, hating......everyone. Perhaps Voice was correct about you. Makes sense why you are filled with such hate. There's an old saying......pick up your bags and move on. Find a home, we'll even welcome you in the USA.......well, someone will.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 03:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    So far so good on the trend.

    I'd love to see Hillary perp walked.

    Its nice you pay so much attention to me, calling me out for being on here almost as much as you and Elaine.
    Your idiocy knows no bounds.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @41 No, Trumpette, Liberal is NOT the same as Progressive. Dense much.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    44. Oh it absolutely is you sanctimonious vile witch.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @45 You are showcasing your lack of education again. That you are not intelligent enough to understand the difference is really nothing to brag about, Trumpette.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Captain Poppy

    Yes, I would like to see that as well.

    Is not not the time or too early to start calling me a knuckle dragging neanderthal?

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    47. You've not said anything to me to warrant that.
    Give it time though.

    46. I see no difference, dictionary definitions hardly reflect the way the words morph in real life.
    You'd think being a vile evil witch you wouldn't get so offended so quickly.
    Go put spell on me.
    maybe that will work


    A term that former liberals co-opted when they discovered that their delusional beliefs didn't fit any recognized definition of the word liberal.

    These fools are frequently self-loathing, unsuccessful losers who can only feel better by projecting their failures onto their opponents.

    A “Progressive” is identified by the following behaviors/beliefs:

    - Knows what is best for everybody else
    - Claims to be well-informed even though they get their news/talking points from the Daily KOS and/or MSNBC

    - Believes that personal wealth is evil yet they fawn over wealthy celebrities and limousine liberals

    - Believes corporations and profit are evil, and will tweet about this 24/7 on their fancy iPad

    - Thinks name-calling and demonizing opponents is the same as debate

    - Accuses every person with a dissenting view of being a racist

    - Supported Occupy Wall Street from the comfort of their living room, not the rape tent

    - Drives a Prius with a COEXIST bumper sticker
    - Believes in the rights of everyone, except those who disagree

    - Thinks the Constitution is flawed because they can't control all 3 branches of government

    - Believes YOUR success could only have come at THEIR expense

    - Believes Al Gore is right about global warming, even though his carbon footprint 100X of the average person

    - Thinks voter identification is racist, because it discriminates against dead people
    Conservative: I believe in personal responsibility and smaller government

    Progressive: You racist hate-monger

    Sound familiar, witch?

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 36 Skip

    Skip, don't let the bile of EB confuse you in what I asked and WHY I asked it. You know, or you should by now know, that I value you posts but the fact remains that you have not, because of your age, had experience of negotiating with hard-headed, bordering on imbecilic men AND women in positions of power in a national union, and that's the point about Macri and his legacy with the unions in BsAs.

    I am sure you recall that each year throughout the top end of Argentina there are ALWAYS thousands of tons of rubbish on the streets because the unions have stopped work, the train operations, when not hit by maintenance failures causing deaths to customers, are on strike, the export docks all along the river systems are held to ransom by the various unions in turn to stop exports knowing that the government will cave. This is just how it used to be in the UK until Baroness Thatcher removed the stupid labour laws forced onto the Labour Party by the infamous 'beer and sandwiches' at No 10 Downing St settled by the P.M. directly thus cutting out the business owners who had no say in things. We had dead people in reefers at the side of morgues because the council workers were on strike!

    Macri runs a family business, he operates BsAs through layers of publicly employed 'managers' who couldn't run the proverbial piss-up in a brewery.

    All I am saying is that these unions WILL bring the whole country to a standstill just to prove a point. Failing to ensure he stepped off on the right foot has shown him to be indecisive at best and weak at worst.

    @ 38 ElaineB

    So you have just confirmed that you have never run a large company and have never started and succeeded at running your own business. Just as I thought, the truth hurts when you are caught out in your postulation, because you cannot claim experience, can you? You cannot stand that you are not world famous for something, eh?

    And no, I pick my own nick names for people, I don't need help from failures.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 04:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @49 Still desperately trying to guess. I have neither confirmed nor denied anything. You, however, tell us everything about yourself and you don't amount to much.
    Have you thought of contacting Macri to tell him of your superpowers and how you are far more qualified to do his job? Go on, I would love to read the reply.

    @48 Such a lot of baggage you have there. Dictionaries do evolve with the words. You are confusing your own definition, drawn from your limited intelligence, with the actual definition. Ask a High School Politics student to explain the differences to you.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 50 ElaineB

    I don't think guessing is a crime is it, especially when all we have to go on is IMO / a personal diatribe against anybody who dares to have a genuine, experience led, thoughtful response to you. But heh, being an outdated feminist is enough for you to have to deal with.

    I know you don't like to be told what to read, as being a true feminist you have already made your mind up, so (without the link as you NEVER click on them - that's so true, NOT):
    “Today's feminists are so out of touch with how most women live, they might as well be on another planet” The Telegraph 11 Dec 2015!

    “Why are feminists so unpleasant to women?” The Telegraph 13 Oct 2015!
    I just love the opening paragraph, written by a woman of course:
    Bereft of a real cause, today's feminists have become a coven of argument who pick petty fights and spew aggressive invective to justify their existence.
    Every word is written for you! Fame at last EB!

    Anyway, enough of this jollity!

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @51 There you go again. Feminist is not an insult. I don't know what it means to you but all it means is two words: Equal Opportunities. Nothing more and nothing less. It really is not scary and it definitely is not an insult.

    You cannot prove anything you say you have done in your life and nor should you. This is the internet and, let's be honest, it is pretty irrelevant. What makes you sound ridiculous is that your genuinely believe you could do a better job than Macri. It is laughable. You have a massively over-inflated opinion of your ability. Before making an even bigger fool of yourself, why not read Macri's full bio. Your assertions about him are just plain wrong. He is no pushover and he had no qualms about laying off huge numbers of ñoquis when he became Mayor.

    I still think you should get your C.V. in to Macri immediately. Let's see what you are made of.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip


    Please stop trying to guess my age and my life experience. You are falling into the same trap that Think, Voice and Yankeeboy already have. I may not share personal information to the same degree as you. But some of the information I have shared is that this isn't my first turn at uni and that I have travelled through over 30 countries and lived in 6 for at least several months, sometimes for years. There's is much more to my life than just that, but I choose not to share it. The internet is a permanent record so I'm canny.

    What Thatcher did to the unions worked for the UK. But that doesn't mean it is the only path. We didn't have the same sort of confrontation and yet union power in Australia isn't that much more powerful than the UK.

    Union power in Argentina is a totally different thing altogether. And I don't discount your work experience. But don't fall into the trap of Yankeeboy in discounting Macri and his team's experience in dealing with this. After all, he did run BsAs for many years.

    No Argentinean president will ever be right-wing enough for Yankeeboy because the US doesn't oscillate around the centre like the UK and Australia (and most other western countries). If this is to happen in Argentina then it will be more akin to Chile. In Chile they have learnt that while you will have far-right and far-left parties, the trick is to subsume them into a centre-right or centre-left coalition to gain power.

    Macri will attempt to bring a centre back into Argentina that is more aligned with Chile is my prediction. Macri cannot and will not be able to solve all of Argentina's problems in 4 years. So he won't. He will make just enough changes to start to fix things and improve the economy. Without traumatising a population with memories of 15 years ago and without giving a reason for CFK to run again.

    You are set for disappointment if you think otherwise.

    Dec 12th, 2015 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 53 Skip

    I have to admit that your previous personal insights of your life led me to believe you are much younger than you are: that explains the maturity in your posts. I hope and trust you accept my apologies if I have upset you because of it. Thank you for that insight.

    Australia, my first choice to retire because I love the place and the people, is so different in many ways and how the unions operate is clearly one and closer to how my relationship with he unions I had to deal with. I never fell into an all out strike, it would have been a failure on my part if one had been thought necessary.

    Macri is without doubt an experienced businessman and a political operator capable of taking the lead seemingly at will. I am not going to say any more about unions because the strike season is almost here and we will soon see if things are better handled.

    @ 52 ElaineB

    Why do you have to claim I have said things that I clearly have not? Does it help you assuage your inferiority complex that always results in a need for sexist and ageist attacks that come to the fore as soon as you feel blighted?

    I have NEVER claimed to be better than Macri and I would never, ever, want to be part of Argentina given the experience I have had with them since I have lived in Uruguay. You cannot read my posts otherwise why would you even consider such a stupid thought as that?

    And clearly, you didn't read the articles. Why should you when you know what to 'think' without considering the facts? My wife only ever reads your posts on here. I won't break a confidence in sharing her thoughts other than to say they are completely different to yours regarding feminism.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @54 Of course your 'wife' doesn't understand feminism. Please pass on my kind regards to her and let her know I appreciate her dedicated attention to my posts. That she is only allowed to read my posts is …….. interesting. That I have such an impact on your home life is……. worrying.

    “Now please tell me who out there has had hands-on experience of dealing with the non-white collar Unions at let's say regional level? Anybody? EB? YB? Captain Poppy certainly not in his military career. Skip I doubt it given his young age and I suspect Ilsen might be the only one who has come close.

    Well, I have, at local, regional and national level and I can say this from experience that getting the relationship wrong from the start is going to make the rest of it superfluous.”

    You start by denigrating a number of people posting here. (You don't know jack shit about any of us to assert that and you spend far too much time thinking about us). Then you go on to tell us how you have all the experience needed. Wow. If anyone has an inferiority complex it is you. Why else would you need to put other people down and crow about yourself?

    You post to antagonise and get a beating every time. Why? Are you bored? Are you a masochist?

    Maybe you will allow your wife to read this:

    the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

    See, it is defined as equality. Equal rights. Equal opportunities. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip


    No need to apologise. It's fine. It would be impossible to agree with any person all the time on fora such as this, let alone in real life. That is the reason I felt to warn you not to succumb to the same mistake as others that do it because they feel that it undervalues my insights. I don't feel you want to do that. Anyway, it's already forgotten.

    Macri is going to have hell with the unions. Indeed I expect the number of days lost to strikes to skyrocket because unlike CFK, he won't give in on most matters and pay them off with inflationary pay rises.

    That is why it is important that he picks the right battles to endure. Everyone knows the strikes are coming. The trick is to give ground on some matters and gain on others. Think of it as a war of attrition. Battles mean little as long as the war is waged and won. That will be his goal.

    Unfortunately Argentina's political and state systems are not as robust as the UK's under Thatcher. The chance of mobs storming Downing Street and ransacking Westminster was negligible. Not so in Argentina. There are powerful and vested interests in the status quo. The trick is to give actual and real workers rewards for actually reforming or working and slowly separate them from the corrupt officials and freeloaders such as La Campora etc.

    His first goal is 2019 and getting reflected. So this will shape the speed and depth of reform.

    Expect change not miracles. Though to many Argentineans any change is a miracle.

    PS: I did see your post on another thread welcoming me back. Just lost it to reply as I don't use the email function here to remind me where I post. I dropped off to concentrate on my studies. My final assignment entailed an all-nighter which is much easier when it involves partying with mates than staring at my Mac for 17 hours. As you may realise I'm on summer holidays and have more free time.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 56 Skip

    Very insightful post, thank you.

    I just love that 'final assignment' comment. :o)

    @ 55 ElaineB

    Why is it that you have to misrepresent posts on here to the point of lying?

    You can't help yourself when you feel that you are losing in any discussion. I have to say that when my wife read that post firstly she thanks you for your 'thanks' and then she burst out laughing at the thought of me being able to tell her what she must do! Our relationship is a partnership and always has been from when she was 19 and I was 21.

    Just try and keep to what is written, it will prevent you from lying.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @57 No lying on my part. You should check yourself.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Its so nice of Elaine to post so many definitions for all of us.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    Oh, look. SuperChrisR has a buddy in Trumpette. You guys have a lot in common. I will leave you alone to stroke each other's egos.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Elaine, You're a sad bitter witch.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @61 If I have annoyed someone as revolting as you, my day is a success.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    If you count posting on here as a success in your life it must be a very lonely and unsuccessful life.
    No wonder you're bitter.

    BTW are you a BA flight attendant with a fat ass? Is that what got you all riled up the last couple of days? Did it hit too close to home? :)

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @63 Not posting on here per se…….annoying a bigoted old Trump supporter like you. You, who would cut of the money to the poor as a top priority. Hoping the 'filthy animals', as you call them, would starve. You have no heart or conscience so if I make you annoyed it is a good day for everyone.

    Still obsessed with my occupation? You have no idea because it is outside of your limited thinking. and experience.

    Your attitude to women is just as revolting as your attitude to all Argentines. You think you are insulting me but you are just revealing more of your twisted mind. Keep going. You damage yourself with every post.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    You're a typical Prog, hand wringing and whining constantly hoping people will listen to your silly destructive ideas.
    Silly bitter cow.
    Go to your safe space if you can't handle it here.

    Do you hate men? Is that why you think everyone who disagrees with you on here is a women hater?

    Old, limited thinking and experience? You have no idea what you are talking usual.
    Spiteful ol'witch.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @65 Yup, still spewing rancid insults. Keep on exposing your vile beliefs.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    back at ya babe.

    Spiteful ol'witch.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 58 ElaineB
    “No lying on my part”

    My statement concerning my wife was: “My wife only ever reads your posts on here.” The reason for that is she just cannot understand your attitude to any man on here. You claim “That she is only allowed to read my posts is …….. interesting.” Clearly a misrepresentation bordering on a deliberate lie.

    “Of course your 'wife' doesn't understand feminism.” Insulting my wife now then?

    Is there is no end to your spleen venting? She does understand feminism and she knows full well it's not portrayed in reality what you hope the equality definition is.

    “Maybe you will allow your wife to read this:” There is just no end to your bile is there? Do you really think I could stop my wife doing anything, even if I wanted to? The next time that happened would be the first in our 48 years together.

    ”You should check yourself. (about lying)“ No need to, I don't lie, I learnt a long time ago that liars always get caught out. It seems you have yet to learn that.

    ”Oh, look. SuperChrisR has a buddy in Trumpette. You guys have a lot in common. I will leave you alone to stroke each other's egos.“

    You are on the point of mental instability, please go and seek advice AND NO, I am not winding you up, you are certainly NOT the same woman who took my comment regarding your initial in good humour. Do you even remember what I said I was hoping the ”B” stood for?

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @68. Let's take this one ridiculous comment after another shall we?

    “Clearly a misrepresentation bordering on a deliberate lie.” Only by your definition and 'bordering on' is NOT a lie. Not that is was by anyone else's definition other than a pedantic old fool with a bit of an obsession about me. You are, as usual, wrong.

    ““Of course your 'wife' doesn't understand feminism.” I gave you the standard definition of feminism and you said ”I won't break a confidence in sharing her thoughts other than to say they are completely different to yours regarding feminism.” So YOU insulted your wife by stating that she believes a different interpretation of feminism rather than the actual definition. (I quoted from the dictionary). You are wrong again.

    Chris, you are a rather silly old fool with an inflated opinion of your worth. If you don't want me to slap your stupid comments around then don't include me in your posts. You knew exactly what you were doing when you denigrated a number of poster's abilities and crowed about your own, so accept the consequences.

    You and YB do have a lot in common. You may not like that but it is true. As another posted put it so well 'barking old dogs'.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 69 ElaineB
    ”As another posted (SIC) put it so well 'barking old dogs'.”

    Never saw that.

    Given your propensity for altering posts to suit your own ends are you sure it wasn't 'barking old bitch' and referring to you?

    That seems very likely.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @70 No.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    The witch likes to add or delete words as it serves her outrage.

    Go find a safe space and calm yourself harpy nobody here cares to hear your endless screeching.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    You two old boys have SO much in common. Barking old dogs. I will leave you to enjoy each other's company.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • yankeeboy

    Oh puhleeeezzzz don't know
    Maybe you just bring it out in men.

    Batshit crazy comes to mind.

    Dec 13th, 2015 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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