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Macri's government renews Falklands' sovereignty claim and calls on UK for dialogue

Monday, January 4th 2016 - 06:45 UTC
Full article 81 comments

President Mauricio Macri's government reaffirmed on Sunday, 3 January, Argentina's sovereignty rights over the Falklands/Malvinas Islands on the 183 anniversary of the 'British occupation of the archipelago' in the South Atlantic, and called for dialogue with the United Kingdom. In a statement published in the Foreign Ministry site it said that “Argentina renews its commitment to the peaceful solution of controversies, to international law to and multilateralism”. Read full article

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  • gordo1

    Macri's position is quite delicate so this declaration is not exactly unexpected. It is all over the news elsewhere in Latin America viz

    http://www.eluniverso.com/noticias/2016/01/03/nota/5325178/argentina-renueva-solicitud-soberania-malvinas

    paulcedron will be delighted!

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 07:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    Yes, very interesting, that's what last one kept saying and our response was to complete a 200 million upgrade to the air defence systems on the islands.

    Oh well, back to business as usual.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 07:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Usual standard-form letter issued every year just to keep the Argentine's fantasy alive. In the real world the matter is finished.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/the-bottom-line.pdf

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 08:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    The UK, on behalf of the Falkland Islanders, must be forever vigilant.

    People like Richard Gott and Jeremy Corbyn MUST be ignored as they do not support our fellow citizens in the Falklands.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 08:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    200 million from the GB taxpayer no doubt.
    What a waste.
    Id want some representation for that taxation if i was a gb taxpayer.
    Or at least a share of any (fantasy) oil.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 09:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    6

    sure, voice

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 09:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vision

    This is indeed expected and comes after Cameron's statement on the issue welcoming the new guy. It has however come as a blanket statement and isn't really anything new or indeed direct from Macri himself. It's not news, it's 'settling in'.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 09:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    That mythical Malvinas stuff is wearing a bit thin on the imagination: https://www.academia.edu/17799157/Falklands_-_Some_Relevant_International_Law

    And that old resolution is d e a d: https://www.academia.edu/17799157/Falklands_-_Some_Relevant_International_Law

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    And l'm “urging”you to get lost, Macri.
    You can “reaffirm”what you like & for the record, you “inherited” nothing from Spain.
    Your stolen country(stolen from the lndian people)was in rebellion against Spain.
    l hardly think that Spain would have left you anything.
    You Argentines need to stop lying.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Res 2065? Long dead. Buried at argentina's request in 1985.

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/2065.pdf

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • SebaSvtz

    I am very disappointed :(

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    ICJ Macri, ICJ.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    9 - yeah its wrong to steal and colonize land isnt it.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    Don't worry about an Argentine invasion, better to look at the current invasion of every P.OS. from around the world moving into the UK.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    “The communiqué states that on 3 January 1833 the Malvinas Islands were occupied by British forces that dislodged the Argentine population and authorities rightfully established, replacing them with subjects from the occupying poser. ”

    WRONG!
    The soldiers and what was left of the government (after the revolt and murders) were removed the colonists were invited to stay and many did.

    Stop telling lies Argentina!

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • falklandlad

    Same old wolves, just different clothing... Nothing new here and nothing new expected.
    Mr Lorton #3 summarises quite aptly “Usual standard-form letter issued every year just to keep the Argentine's fantasy alive. In the real world the matter is finished.”

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “…of resolving, the sovereignty dispute over the Malvinas, South Georgia and South Sandwich Islands and the surrounding maritime spaces”. It's already resolved in the only fair and proper way. With the complete adherence to the requirements of international law, By the Islanders and the UK. Estoppel lies to prevent Argentina from denying the binding effect of 1850 Convention of Settlement. Nor the subsequent statements from her own presidents and vice president. Which is sufficient to prevent her from attempting any legal challenge. So she can habla, habla all she wants there is absolutely no possibility of any change in the status quo.
    5, 13 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire: ”200 million from the GB taxpayer no doubt.
    As per usual a claim with zero support, but thats the Argentinian way isn't it.
    The price of war
    ”Although the Falklands War had a very noticeable short-term impact on defense expenditure, the impact was not long-lasting. Notwithstanding the first few years after the conflict, when South Atlantic expenditure was greatly consumed by the construction of RAF Mount Pleasant (operational from 1986), the amount spent wasn't overly significant. In 1986-7, it was only 2.23% of total defence expenditure, and by 1989-90, a mere 0.33%. At their height (1982-3), the war's effects represented only 6.76% of total defence expenditure.
    http://nikdarlington.blogspot.com.br/2010/05/falklands-war-cost-benefit-analysis.html

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    I am not surprised. I don't think I could have coped if Macri had shown signs of intelligence. There are so few argies that have any.

    I trust that the Falkland Islands garrison has gone to war alert. Hitler used to say “I have no further territorial ambitions”. During the Kirchner period, argie aircraft and naval vessels used to “probe” the Islands' EEZ, until crews refused to take the junk to the air or to sea.

    We've seen the Russian “sloops” aka tugs, but no sign of the much heralded JF-17 fighters, unsurprising as it took Pakistan 7 years to get its first squadron. Also no sign of the Chinese P18/Type 56 corvettes. They could take years as it is, reportedly, intended to build 3 of them in argieland. There might be a “delay” as the design calls for two engines manufactured by a wholly-owned subsidiary of Rolls Royce.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 11:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • diefra

    Macri said this speech because of ,if he dont say anything, the peronist would claim to him that he works for British crown , Nothing happened,

    This article was published in La Nacion arg journal, and I glad that the majority of comments are that we must focusing in our problems in Argentina , and we must let the falklander in peace . Here the 70% of arg are happy with Macri admnist, the only arg enemy calls kirchners followers , niether brits, nor falklanders

    I guess that Argentina improve relationships with UK, and probably it would be similar to those that we had during Menem s administration.

    I hope UN give you your self determination, in order to finish the disputy or any claim

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Redrow

    @ Vestige.
    ”Id want some representation for that taxation if i was a gb taxpayer.
    Or at least a share of any (fantasy) oil.”
    Speaking as a GB tax-payer, I am fully entitled to my share of what was until recently the profits from North Sea oil. However any oil in the Falklands belongs to the islanders and not to me so why would I expect to get a share of it like some trumped-up colonialist? The oil is theirs, not yours or mine. That I contribute a relative pittance to the defence of the islanders is a pleasure and a privilege. May they have a Happy New Year and many more to come, each happier and freer than the last. If you truly loved them Vestige you would let them go.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    Curious if rottingroadkill is willing to accept a dozen or so Syrian refugees on behalf of the malvinavins? They can feed and house them until such time as they can regain possession of the islands. Would the Syrians even accept resettlement to the islands? Would they even go to rottingroadkill - even if it was just temporary? Maybe the iraniums can underwrite the whole fiasco since the revolting guard is laying waste to Syria!

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    @21 The Syrians would rather stay home than live on that wind swept rock with a bunch of inbreds.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ElaineB

    @19 You are right. Macri has enough problems to deal with without giving ammunition to the K's to fire at him.

    CFK is nutty about this subject as we all saw from her misguided belief that if she stamped her feet hard enough and told the lie often enough she would get what she wanted. I bet that campaign cost a whole lot more than 200 million of the Argentine tax-payer's money.

    Nothing has changed and nothing will change.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • FitzRoy

    @22: Inbreds? Not me or any of my friends or family. Why does Argentina want the Islands, if they're so inhospitable? It's very sunny here today, with no breeze....or flooding, as per South America, or volcanoes erupting, or financial difficulties, or unemployment......or a lot of other things that Argentina has that we don't want.
    I don't think you can really speak for the Syrians.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • diefra

    @ 23 Yes it s truth. Macri has opened a Pandora s box and all kirchneristas rats are running away,
    Probably at April 2nd Macri will say the same speech, but nothing will change

    I ve some brits & falklanders followers in twitter, and in fact most brits are worried about ISIS threats , because of there are a hugh number of muslims living in EU and UK . I m agree in this topic, and UN adviced that Libya would be next ISIS base

    With some falklanders followers we imagine a diff relantionship when the disputy will finished, in business, tourism or education

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Klingon

    Won't be long and the Muslims will be moving from the UK to terrorize Las Malvinas now they have a UK passport.
    Don't worry Conquerer will be there to protect you with his .303 and Bayonet.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 03:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Ann Other

    Don't worry Klingon, The Falklands government control who has the right of residence and a British passport does not.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jmackiej

    If they want dialogue then will need to include the Falkland Islanders also - its called self determination - if they wont, then they are the same old facists - what is it to be Macri.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    23 ElaineB
    “CFK is nutty about this subject…I bet that campaign cost a whole lot more than 200 million of the Argentine tax-payer's money.”
    It costs Argentina more than the UK in their conflict according to Carlos Escudé. He warned: “If Argentina had power, I would not be doing these proposals,” but reasoned that “pursue policies of power without power is counterproductive” because “leads to losing more than you earn systematically”
    “La reivindicación argentina de Malvinas solo sirve para comprar el voto de ciudadanos poco educados”
    http://www.infobae.com/2014/11/10/1607855-la-reivindicacion-argentina-malvinas-solo-sirve-comprar-el-voto-ciudadanos-poco-educados

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    Argentina's Falklands claim only serves to buy the votes of uneducated citizens.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    This will be a very intricate problem,
    And negotiations should start in earnest,
    According to macri,

    Now many will give many hundreds of replies and solutions to this very sensitive and tricky problem, and dealing will macri and argentines claim in this day of rights , democracy AND CORRUPTION FOLLOWED BY HOLLOWED GREED,

    It seems to me,
    That the British government could deal with this in only two ways,
    A long drawn out non negotiations lasting decades,
    And giving British politicians the excuse to look strong whilst carrying a paper wedge,

    Or a simpler yet strongly worldly way that macri and all with understand in plain unfettered English,

    And tell them to PISS OFF,

    Not very diplomatic, but very much understood by all.

    Just my humble opinion.
    .

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 08:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Faulconbridge

    As the UK will discuss anything but sovereignty and Argentina won't discuss anything except sovereignty, there isn't likely to be much discussion.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    “Macri's government renews Falklands' sovereignty claim and calls on UK for dialogue”

    As “The Who” once famously said:-

    Meet the new boss....... Same as the old boss.....

    We won't get fooled again.....

    Jog on President Mauricio whatever........

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Britworker

    Same shit different day, you only get to keep what you can defend, that is the only thing we should never lose sight of.
    Argentina will one day try its luck again, probably with a foreign backer, we need to be prepared always and nothing is up for discussion.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 09:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    “The communiqué states that on 3 January 1833 the Malvinas Islands were occupied by British forces that dislodged the Argentine population and authorities rightfully established, replacing them with subjects from the occupying poser. ”

    So if there are talks , this pack of lies will be shot down straight away.

    Presumably this is for public consumption

    “Argentina protested immediately this illegitimate act of force which remains, without having ever consented it.”

    Yet if the UPs were that concerned, how come they didn't send their forces to Port Louis between January 1833 and January 1834 when there were no British military on the Islands?

    Answer-they weren't that bothered.

    There were more British forces on the Islands in 1982 than in 1833-1834, when they did invade.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Getting tired of these posturing monkeys & their lies.
    We should actively aid any foreign power who wants to invade & dismember Argentina.
    Break them up into more manageable, smaller countries.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • diefra

    30 - The problem is Arg Constitution obligate Congress / President to claim UK Falk Is.

    31 - The responsible of this situation is the UN when they don t accept you self determination s referendum. if I don t misunderstood when this referendum will be accepted, the UN should visit Falk Is ,and then you will get your self determination., so it means the discussion will be over

    I know that UN refused to visit Falk Is, I don t know why, but in my opinion falklanders should claim to UN

    Arg , UK & Falk Is wasted a lot of time, in this discussion,

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    @26. Funny.

    I'd a lot rather have a fair Enfield than a new Kalashnikov.

    I'd kill you easily at 4 times the range that you could even effectively engage me.

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Islander1

    Diefra- I think you are right. There are some things that Macri has to say on certain days over the Islands issue - otherwise he could be in big trouble at home. the big difference is he says them simply and not with a string of foul words like the lady before him!

    Jan 04th, 2016 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hepatia

    The UK will return the Malvinas within the next 25 years.

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    37 diefra
    The right to self-determination is aright absolute derived from the UN Charter, and doesn't require prior approval from the UN, as it has no capacity to disapprove. In fact under international law the UN proper, (and not a minor sub-sub committee which has even less capability). Their silence signifies the following:
    Overview of International Law and Institutions, Sources of International Law
    “Nations that remain silent, however, may become bound by the rule, even if they did not expressly support it. Silence, in other words, is considered a form of implicit acceptance.”
    p. xxv, FOREIGN RELATIONS LAW https://lawfare.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/staging/s3fs-public/uploads/2013/05/FRLCM_FM.pdf

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 12:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • downunder

    The ‘Malvinas’ is the bastardisation of the French name for the Falkland Islands.

    In hepatitis world the clock ticks, it cuckoos, but the hands remain frozen.

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • diefra

    39 ; 41 Yes you ve reason

    a) It s a good opportunity to close this disputy because of Macri is a friedly market president and he will accept a UN self determination resolution, in comparisson with CFK

    b) The problem is that 2065 UN resolution includes Arg to solve with UK about Falk self determination, And UN never refused Arg claims at UN .

    Our Foreign Minister , Malcorra, worked several years at UN and she is recognized for her job at UN , so it s a good oppotunity to take the bull by their horns an solve this anachronic disputy .

    I ve not doubt that falkland Is economy will grow up more than now when this disputy finish.

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 01:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    41                                                                      Terry
     
     
     

    ......tut tut Terry..
    ...and the previous paragraph

    “It is also commonly accepted that nations that persistently object to an emerging customary international law rule are not bound by it, as long as they do so before the rule becomes settled.
    Nations that remain silent, however, may become bound by the rule, even if they did not expressly support it. Silence, in other words, is considered a form of implicit acceptance.”
    p. xxv, FOREIGN RELATIONS LAW lawfare.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/staging/s3fs-public/uploads/2013/05/FRLCM_FM.pdf

    ...and

    “It should not be assumed that the concept of self-determination became a legally binding principle of conventional international law by the mere fact of its incorporation into the UN Charter.”
    Max Planck Encyclopedia of Public International Law

    Tut bloody tut...

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 02:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Voice (I assume it's you by the condescending style) -

    You are correct however that argentina is bound by the “ .. emerging customary international law rule..” that is known as the right of self-determination. Planck is also quite correct - but the right of self-determination is now so much bigger than the Charter entry.

    And just for the record - 'A State which has ceased to exercise any authority over a territory, cannot by purely verbal protestations, indefinitely maintain its title against another which for a sufficiently long time has effectively exercised the powers and fulfilled the duties of sovereignty in it.' (Theory and Reality in International Law, 1957 p210).

    Isn't law wonderful .... Tut, tut :-)

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 04:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    In Argentina
    “The communiqué states that on 3 January 1833 the Malvinas Islands were occupied by British forces that dislodged the Argentine population and authorities rightfully established, replacing them with subjects from the occupying poser. Argentina protested immediately this illegitimate act of force which remains, without having ever consented it.”

    In Britain
    “People sometimes ask me why Argentinians make such an endless fuss about the islands they call Las Malvinas. The answer is simple. The Falklands belong to Argentina. They just happen to have been seized, occupied, populated and defended by Britain. Because Argentina's claim is perfectly valid, its dispute with Britain will never go away”

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 05:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Nonsense Marcos (or is it Morecrap?). The islands have been British since 1765. Argentina's claim is entirely spurious but you are right about one thing - Britain will “never go away.”

    Who cares what argentina thinks?

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 06:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @46 Marcos the chimp-boy,

    “..dislodged the Argentine population and authorities rightfully established, replacing them with subjects from the occupying poser.”

    Well, there you are, the Argentine and other settlers were invited to remain and most did. The only people removed were the remaining military garrison who killed their own commander and stood trial for that in UP.

    No new “replacements” were introduced.

    Next.. !

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 06:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Philippe

    The idea is to have a Hitler/Munich style “dialogue” consisting in plain words:
    a transfer of sovereignty. Thank God the British are no fools.

    Philippe

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 08:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • lsolde

    Marcos, trying to perpetuate the mal-lies & quoting Richard Gott! ha ha, just too funny.
    R.Gott is a crank, like G.Galloway.
    No credibility from any of them.
    You'll have to try harder, Marcos boy.

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Again and again, Marcos only appears in order to show that he is the stupidest troll on MP

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

                                                                            Lord Ton
     
     

    And just for the record....
    “The ICJ has not specified what ‘a reasonable amount of time’
    is and indicated that this is entirely up to the court to determine.”

    “International courts have not engaged simply in measuring the lapse of time and applying clear-cut time limits and no time limit has been laid down.”
    “Umpire Ralston in the Guastini case, part
    of the American/Venezuela Claims Commission declared, ‘
    that while disallowing the claim, expresses no opinion as to the number of years constituting sufficient prescription to defeat claims against governments in an international court. Each must be decided according to its special conditions.”
    ...same book you quoted from...

    “Isn't law wonderful .... Tut, tut ”
    I'm sure Law is wonderful, but it's a pity you were not quoting “Law”...only expressed opinions...
    FACT...There is no time limit in International Law concerning Extinctive Prescription...
    FACT....Self-Determination is not a legally binding principle of conventional international law...
    ....when you have some actual “FACTS”.....
    ...let me know....
    Oh and er.....
                                                                           :-))))))))))))

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 12:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    The ICJ Voice? How would you know? Argentina has been refusing to go to the ICJ since 1946.

    Facts? Try this - the ICJ says that self-determination applies to ALL the NSGTs listed at the UN. Does that cause you any confusion? Seems easy enough. I suggest to take a look at this -

    https://falklandstimeline.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/falklands-what-the-icj-might-say-about-argentinas-claims.pdf

    You wouldn't know a “fact” if it bit you on the arse Voice :-)

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

     
     
     

    .....a clue is in the title....
    “falklands-what-the-icj-MIGHT-say-about-argentinas-claims.pdf”
    Is that a Might...?
    Not a Will...or a Would...
    I'm thinking the Moon “Might” be made of Cheese...
    ....and the City of Atlantis “Might” be in the Gulf of Mexico....
    ...and one day you “Might” supply me with some actual FACTS....
    ...and
    Wait for it...
    Don't rush me...
    ...it's coming...
    Ah....there we are....

    “Although the provisions concerning non-self-governing and trust territories entail binding international obligations, the general principles of self-determination and of equal rights of peoples, which in the formula used by the UN Charter appear to be two component elements of the same concept, seem to be too vague and also too complex to entail specific rights and obligations. In particular, the UN Charter neither supplies an answer to the question as to what constitutes a ‘people’ nor does it lay down the content of the principle. In the absence of any concrete definition, and taking into account the highly various facts of international life, it cannot realistically be interpreted, applied or implemented like a legal norm ”
    Max Planck Encyclopedia of Public International Law
    .....:-))))))

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    @54 Voice

    Acquisitive Prescription

    The UK has publically and peacefully possessed the Falklands for over 150 years an adequate time for acquisitive prescription (Boundary Between British Guiana and Venezuela 3 Oct 1899). The majority rule is that mere protests do not suffice indefinitely; they become useless without further efforts to arbitrate the dispute (Chamizal Arbitration US and Mexico 1911). Argentina has had since 1899 with the formation of the Permanent Court of Arbitration, a competent body, to bring its claim to arbitration. Therefore acquisitive prescription provides the UK with a resilient claim to the Falklands.



    Self-Determination

    The ICJ has made 4 Advisory Opinions and 1 Judgment that all confirm or state, ‘that the right to self-determination is applicable to ALL non-self-
    governing territories.’ There are no exceptions. A motion to place
    restrictions on the right was defeated by the UN Fourth Committee on 20th October 2008 making it an inalienable right.

    A people

    In 1989 UNESCO described ‘a people’ as the Webster’s definition, ‘the entire body of people who constitute a community or other group by virtue of common culture, religion or the like.’ They also adopted the Kirby definition which includes f) a territorial connection.

    In the many UN resolutions on decolonisation the words ‘people’ and ‘population’ are used interchangeably.

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    @54 a voiceofthink,

    ha ha funny that voiceofthink “might” believe that with a lack of what he calls “facts”, the ICJ “might” decide against the status quo and the inhabitants of 200 years.

    Another voiceofthink farce.

    One really wonders why you put in so much effort when your nonsense is so easily dismissed.

    You are a curmudgeonly attention seeker, nothing more.

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Its noticeable that VoiceofThink tends to post this drivel just after chucking out time at the Dunoon Combined Services bar. Nothing is achieved and provides a little amusement, though not as good as Nostril. Perhaps he's an Argie negotiator practicing. Quite realistic really, he always loses ;-)

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    The Falkland's belong to the islanders,
    Argentina belongs to the original people,
    so Argentines are the usurpers invaders and occupiers,

    and thus should do the decent thing and go hone.
    but thieves never like to give up other peoples property.

    so they say.

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    55
    Nice try Bob....
    A description was provided by UNESCO....not a definition....
    A definition that could be used to define “a people” in International Law...

    ”22. Then it is said that the definition of ‘peoples’ is uncertain and that the notion of peoples’ rights could lead to dangerous proliferation of claims undermining settled borders, national sovereignty and international peace and security. In earlier times, and in some places today, individual human rights were equally criticized as dangerous and subversive to law and order. It is true that there is need for further efforts to define ‘peoples’ for the purposes of peoples ’ rights. It is possible that the concept has universal features. For example, during the meeting the following characteristics were amongst those mentioned as inherent in a description (but not a definition) of a ‘people’ for this purpose:”

    ...and for Acquisitive Prescription to be a valid means of possession it must be accompanied by acquiescence of all the other interested States and a complete lack of protest....

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 08:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    54 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
    What an absolute sophist you are you proffer an opinion “Although the provisions concerning …Max Planck Encyclopedia” But, when Bob does exactly the same you state .“A description was provided by UNESCO....not a definition….”
    ”however, it is considered a fallacy to make contradictory claims. People call it arguing out of both sides of your mouth,“ The Purposeful Argument: A Practical Guide By Harry Phillips, Patricia Bostian.
    Is not only completely unprincipled but estopped (barred) in law; Allegans contraria non est audiendus (Jenk. Cent. 16): “He is not to be heard who alleges things contradictory to each other.” This elementary rule of logic expresses, in technical language, the saying that a man shall not be permitted to “blow hot and cold” with reference to the same transaction, or insist, at different times, on the truth of each of two conflicting allegations, according to the promptings of his private interest. Says the Satyr, if you have gotten a trick of blowing hot and cold out of the same mouth, I've e'en done“ with ye. en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Legal_counsel

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    You think the moon “might” be made of cheese Think ...... sorry Voice? Well that explains a lot.

    There are no NSGTs without a people. That is because of the 'definition' of a NSGT contained in resolution 567 of 1952. If there were no 'people' on the islands, it could not be listed as a NSGT at the UN. This is a fact. Indeed the most recent Chair of the C24 has confirmed this by trying to suggest that the FI should be delisted as they have no people.

    All the other “interested” States? that is a faintly ridiculous suggestion as I suspect you know. About as ridiculous as extinctive prescription having no time limit. No 'SET' time limit certainly - but 183 years is likely to be more than enough.

    Not that any of this fascinating discussion matters. With no UN resolution for 27 years it would seem that the world believes it to have been resolved. Argentina has nowhere to go - in international law or at the UN.

    The matter is settled.

    Jan 05th, 2016 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Vestige

    20 - Fine by you. But you dont speak for all citizens of GB do you.

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    62 Vestige, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
    Well you certainly don't, estopped fallacist.

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    He speaks for the majority Vestige - after all, the money spent on the base at MPA is not just for the Falklands. That base also protects all the other interests that the UK has in the South Atlantic.

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 01:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marcos Alejandro

    47 Roger Lorton (#)

    “Nonsense Marcos. The islands have been British since 1765”

    Roger,
    Remember?

    The British Empire

    “Three years later, the British did formally leave the islands and they passed into the Spanish Empire for the next forty years. This arrangement was formally recognised by the British in the 1790 Nootka Sound Convention by which Britain formally rejected any colonial ambitions in 'South America and the islands adjacent'. It also reflected a weakening of British power in the Western Hemisphere coming shortly after the embarrassing loss of the 13 colonies partly thanks to French and Spanish intervention.

    The Spanish claim on the islands would falter with the South American Wars for Independence at the start of the nineteenth century. The Spanish removed their formal representative and settlers from the island from 1810 and completed it by 1811. The islands were left to their own fate for the next decade as sealing and whaling ships might call in from time to time to take advantage of the harbour and fresh water. It was not to be until 1820 that the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata would send a frigate to the islands in order to assert their control as part of the legacy of post-colonial Spanish claims to authority there. Buenos Aires would appoint their first governor in 1823 who tried to limit the whole-scale slaughter of seals which were in danger of being made extinct on the islands. A penal colony was also established on the island”

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 03:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    We never left MoreCrap ... we merely withdrew the garrison which is not the same thing at all.

    1820? Of no consequence, indeed Argentina dates its claim from 1829.

    Usual nonsense from a commentator that has not done sufficient research.. I have :-)

    https://falklandstimeline.wordpress.com/

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 05:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Brit Bob

    @59 Voice

    You talk of irrelevances. There are numerous UN resolutions on decolonisation where the words ‘people’ and ‘population’ are used interchangeably. For example, UNGA resolution 1514 (XV) from 1960 uses the word ‘people’ and UN 2065 (XX) from 16 December 1965 uses ‘population.’

    What is relevant is the 4 ICJ Advisory Opinions and 1 Judgment that all conform that the right to self-determination is applicable to ALL NSGTs.

    Not forgetting, A motion to place restrictions on the right was defeated by the UN Fourth Committee on 20th October 2008 making it an inalienable right.

    And, the UN Secretary General confirmed in 2010 and again in 2015 that the right to self-determination was applicable to ALL NSGTs.

    So to recap, ICJ x5, UNGA, and Secretary General of the UN all dismiss what you are saying.

    Again, regarding Acquisitive Prescription, The majority rule is that mere protests do not suffice indefinitely; they become useless without further efforts to arbitrate the dispute (Chamizal Arbitration US and Mexico 1911). Argentina has had since 1899 with the formation of the Permanent Court of Arbitration, a competent body, to bring its claim to arbitration. Therefore acquisitive prescription provides the UK with a resilient claim to the Falklands. Acquisitive Prescription provides the UK with a robust claim over the islands (2012 American Bar Association).

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    Expect an obscure quote from Voice/Think (with an o or an 0) anytime now Bob :-)

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    VoiceofThink should be reeling back from the Combined Services any minute, depends how much he has sunk.

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Yesterday Argentina again reclaims the Falklands,

    Today Spain jumps on the band wagon and states they want the same talks over Gibraltar,

    What will happen tomorrow= France reclaims Britain, Denmark reclaims parts of Scotland, Norway reclaims northern Britain for the Vikings,

    When will it stop?
    The government should crack down now, cut off aid, relations, help,

    But we won’t.

    They will keep it up, but we will do sweet F.A.

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Timerman was invited to a formal discussion with the 'People' of the Falklands ( deemed irrelevant by voice and Argentina) and with the FCO Minister of the U.K. representing the UK government.

    He declined.

    So much for Britain not granting discussion or negotiation.

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • toooldtodieyoung

    65 Marcos Alejandro

    “It was not to be until 1820 that the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata would send a frigate to the islands in order to assert their control as part of the legacy of post-colonial Spanish claims to authority there”.

    Ooooohhhhhh Marcos!!!! You naughty boy!! You see what you did there?

    You just f**ked yourself in public!!!

    “the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata”

    Clearly NOT argentina!!

    Would you like to tell us all when argentina actually became a recognized country and not a collection of Provinces??

    Could you do that for us?

    CAN you do that for us?

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 09:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • The Voice

    Marcos = Prick - thats a compliment.

    Jan 06th, 2016 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    British full stop.

    Jan 07th, 2016 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    No answer came the stern reply by Marcos, Que boludo

    Jan 07th, 2016 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    Look guys,

    Marcos the dimwitted prick has made one stupid, leading statement designed to sow doubt, with no substance - and buggered off.

    He doesn't believe it himself, and he follows exactly the same modus operandi of Vestige and Stevie et al - he is just s l o w e r to jump on the Troll bandwagon.

    He realizes as much as we do that his comments are unfounded and worthless - don't expend too much time on his immature nonse

    Jan 07th, 2016 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Marcos
    Should be sent to Coventry.

    Jan 08th, 2016 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Troy Tempest

    As somebody said - he's just another disembodied “voice”
    - small target, not a fleshed out real identity
    - hit & run chaff

    Jan 08th, 2016 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ilsen

    These 'debates' are circular, endless and ultimately pointless in the pursuit of conclusion.
    So, let us all address some 'Real-Politik' to the situation.

    1: There are some Islands in the South Atlantic that Argentina claims as their own.
    2: There are some Islands in the South Atlantic that the people who have lived there, (for longer than Argentina has existed as a Nation-State), claim as their own.
    3. Those people, living on those Islands, have the support for their Right-to-Self-Determination, from a NATO Country that is far, far more powerful, Militarily, Economically and Politically than Argentina.

    That, really is, all that needs to be said.

    Jan 10th, 2016 - 02:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Agreed.

    Jan 10th, 2016 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pete Bog

    @79
    “These 'debates' are circular, endless and ultimately pointless in the pursuit of conclusion.”

    Well put. The needle keeps riding over the scratch in the record,g'dum, g'dum, g'dum etc etc

    Jan 13th, 2016 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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