MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Spain calls for dialogue on Gibraltar and Falklands; UK reiterates support for self determination
The United Kingdom has reiterated that the sovereignty of Gibraltar is not a matter for discussion or negotiation with Spain. This follows a call by the Spanish Foreign Ministry for a resumption of bilateral dialogue with the UK over Gibraltar. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesI'm sure Morocco would like to restore its territorial integrity but Spain doesn't want to enter into talks about that, so a bit two-faced on Spain's part
Jan 07th, 2016 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought Spain was supposedly a NATO ally and a fellow member of Europe. As a member of each of these bodies isn't the UK bound by treaty to help militarily to defend Spain if they were attacked by a non NATO or non European country, is Spain breaking any treaty's by trying to seize UK territory?
Jan 07th, 2016 - 09:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Presumably like most states in Europe, Spain will receive more money from it than it pays in. The funds for those payments come from amounts paid by the three net contributors to this organisation, France, Germany and THE UK. So Spain is willing to bite the hand that helps to feed it !!! another reason for the UK to leave Europe. Would be interesting to see how the rest of Europe viewed Spain if the UK left for this reason.
Finally the UK government should recognize, and campaign for the rest of Europe to recognize, Catalonia as an independent state, even set up an embassy there with an ambassador.
As for Argentina we should just ignore them like you do with a petulant child.
Ain't going to happen. Perhaps hepatia could give us some idiotic idea of when the UK will return Gibraltar to the Spanish?
Jan 07th, 2016 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0What's to talk about?
Jan 07th, 2016 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am an avowed “hispanófilo” BUT all this is nonsense for several reasons.
Jan 07th, 2016 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Spanish “cause” for el Peñon and the Argentine “cause” for las Malvinas are two totally different matters - there are just NO similarities.
The first is covered by the Treaty of Utrecht signed after the end of the War of Spanish Succession(1701-1714) caused by the death of the last Hapsburg king, Carlos “el hechizado” who sadly was badly affected by the Habsburg habit of “inbreeding” and, besides other health problems, was impotent. Under the terms of this treaty Spain ceded Gibraltar to Britain in perpetuity, that is to say, FOREVER. Nothing to negotiate!
The Argentine cause is just plain nonsense from start to finish - it is bolstered by a series of lies, fairy stores, myths and misinterpretations of historical events. Argentina should take its case to the International Court of Justice for resolution if they are so certain of their“cause”.
Let Spain resolve its political problem as clearly their voters don't seem to know who they want to govern them
Gibraltar is British by treaty (as correctly stated by others here) there is also the matter arising from the treaty of Versailles a few years later when Britain handed over their half of Florida and the whole of Minorca to Spain in respect of Gibraltar...unless Spain plans to hand them back as part of a deal?
Jan 07th, 2016 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm guessing the Americans are unlikely to agree to the Florida swap.
@2. Don't think so. The NATO treaty doesn't “require” any NATO member to give military assistance to another member. Nor can I recall anything of a similar nature within the EU. The UK can simply stand by and watch that everything goes okay for Gibraltar. We can't know what goes on in spanish “minds” but I recall at least one instance where spain tried to insert a caveat about Gibraltar in a treaty. I think it was UNCLOS. But it was made clear that what it was saying about Gibraltar had no effect.
Jan 07th, 2016 - 02:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Under the terms of this treaty Spain ceded Gibraltar to Britain in perpetuity, that is to say, FOREVER”
Jan 07th, 2016 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not quite. The Spaniards imposed conditions on Britain before they were allowed to take over Gibraltar. One was that the British would never allow Moors or Jews to settle in Gibraltar. Britain has undoubtedly broken those conditions, so the treaty and cession are no loger valid. Whether the Spaniards would argue this in a court of law - not even Franco did so - is another question.
Spain is obviously an interim goal for the muslem caliphate.
Jan 07th, 2016 - 02:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps some part of it can remain in the EU and be salvaged - maybe the basque region can be annexed into France.
Now a “transfer of sovereignty” is called a “dialogue.” No kidding,
Jan 07th, 2016 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Philippe
@8 Falconbridge
Jan 07th, 2016 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nonsense
Neither Gibraltar nor Spain nor, indeed, Britain asks a traveller from whatever nation or of whatever nationality what his religious affiliation is.
What would happen if a Mr Levy, a Catholic, were to seek entry to Gibraltar - how are the immigration authorities going to determine whether he is truly a Christian? Bear in mind that many Catholics are circumcised these days! Also there are the (very) occasional converts from Islam to Christianity. Khan, for example, can be a Hindu name or a Muslim name - are Hindus also prohibited under the Treaty of Utrecht?
@8. But then, once in British possession, the inhabitants were only subject to British law.
Jan 07th, 2016 - 07:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As a matter of interest, how would spain justify besieging ceded territory?
So the Treaty of Utrecht is no longer valid. Spain can't pick the bits it likes. Do the sensible thing. Sink everything spanish in BGTW. Shoot down everything spanish in Gibraltar airspace. Begin the bombardment.
If Spain wants to renege on the treaty under whose terms Gibraltar was ceded to Britain in perpetuity, then it should remember that that same treaty ended the war of Spanish succession during which Britain and Spain fought on different sides. If it wants a war, then by all means rip up the treaty.
Jan 07th, 2016 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@5 gordo1
Jan 07th, 2016 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry, being an avowed “hispanófilo” AND a renegade from the Church Of England to being a RCC sycophant won't prevent you from getting into Gibraltar, unlike getting into heaven which doesn't exist.
Aren't you lot supposed to spend 'god knows' how long in Perdition first once you have croaked, or is that been abolished as well?
Spannishtina, should both just soddy offy,
Jan 07th, 2016 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0both are living in the past, and both yearn colonial power,
and both play the victim card,
and both are losers.
Gibraltar and the Falkland's will remain British as long as it is their free wish to do so,
or Britain is unable to protect them,[staying in the corrupt EU.]
@14 ChrisR
Jan 07th, 2016 - 09:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mock away, you buffoon!
For an elderly person you are amazingly juvenile - as bad as paulcedron with your silly nonsense.
Ahhhhhh!
Jan 07th, 2016 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You Brits don't really want monkey island.
I say give it to the hispanis !
And then let the Moors have the Iberian.
They make much better babba ganoush anyway!
Ieeeeeeeeeee!
Je suis Espagnol !
Jan 07th, 2016 - 09:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Je suis Blas de Lezo !
@18
Jan 07th, 2016 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Você é um idiota!
@19 And what are you?
Jan 07th, 2016 - 09:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPDil5Fitt0&index=19&list=FLmXPTu1f8AdGlizWNiASx2A
Brasileiro
Jan 07th, 2016 - 09:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seu No.20 é a confirmação de que você é um idiota
When you write in Portuguese I will answer.
Jan 07th, 2016 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@14 ChrisR
Jan 07th, 2016 - 10:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You may be interested in this - you will certainly have an opinion!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/12087906/Catholic-worship-returns-to-Henry-VIIIs-chapel-for-first-time-since-16th-Century.html
Heretic.
Jan 07th, 2016 - 10:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@18, 20, 22, 24.
Jan 07th, 2016 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But then you are required to use English. So fuck off, arsehole.
@18 Brasileiro
Jan 08th, 2016 - 06:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0If you are Blaz de Lezo then I am Sir Francis Drake and Admiral Lord Nelson!
@ 23 gordo1
Jan 08th, 2016 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are too late, I have already seen it.
The only 'opinion' I have is my usual one.
Apart from the beautiful workmanship this building is a complete waste and should be used by an organisation that actually helps mankind instead of promoting lies and inter-sectarian warfare and robbing poor people of their money as I witnessed for myself in Nigeria.
BTW, you are as old as I, are you not?
You are correct in one thing though: I do have a 'young' mind but not like Polly's AND you know that.
That is why some young people who speak English (therefore demonstrating their intellect) come to me to help them understand programming in Excel spreadsheets and one young man is studying electronic engineering and I am assisting him in that.
The universities here are woefully inadequate compared with the UK and these young people clearly realise that fact but cannot afford to go to the USA or Europe.
@ChristR
Jan 08th, 2016 - 02:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know how old you are in years but your buffoonery is that of an ancient geyser! If you consider yourself the possessor of a “young” mind then you are gravely mistaken. As it is said “ there is nothing like an old fool” and you really consistently show us that to be true!
God bless you and keep you in spite of yourself!
NOTHING TO TALK ABOUT. IN GIBRALTAR WE IGNORE CRETINS..
Jan 08th, 2016 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This is the last stab at this by the old right wing government, two thirds of the electorate in Spain are now socialist snd Gibraltar is soon to drop well and truly off the political agenda in Spain.
Jan 09th, 2016 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 28 gordo1
Jan 10th, 2016 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0You don't know how old I am? Try READING my posts before you comment then: I am 69 YO at present and my birthday is in April.
You do realise (but probably not) that being delusional as you are about life and the medieval fairy tales that you believe in in no way alters reality?
I love the old RCC mantra about putting up with this life because when you die it will all be better. So you look forward to dying?
I live my life as best I can and look forward to LIVING as long as possible in good or reasonable health and then there's nothing. Just as you will find out for yourself (but not in reality, your brain will die with you).
So no need to worry about death! Glad to clear that up for you.
@31 ChrisR
Jan 10th, 2016 - 01:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Death comes to all of us - as you will find out! But, worrying about Christianity, as you clearly do, is something you should avoid as it obviously has nothing to do with you.
Just as your spiritual well being is your business so the spiritual well being of Christians is their business - so just bug off!
@ 32 gordo1
Jan 10th, 2016 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But, worrying about Christianity, as you clearly do”
I see you have been taking lessons and are as telepathetic (not a spelling error) as your teacher!
The malevolent influence of all religions on society and the promulgation of wars, murders and rapes, etc. as a direct result is the only thing that concerns me.
The duped leaders of the RCC and the Church of England still believe that Islam is a 'religion of peace'!
You have to admire some of the Mullahs though in selling that to our 'leaders'.
Old Crocodile Tears didn't need any selling though, he's three quarters the way into 'the club' already.
@33 ChrisR
Jan 10th, 2016 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are just confirming my opinion viz:
“The malevolent influence of all religions on society and the promulgation of wars, murders and rapes, etc. as a direct result is the only thing that concerns me.
The duped leaders of the RCC and the Church of England still believe that Islam is a 'religion of peace'!”
You even add a mention of Islam.
I suggest you cease your pursuit of established religions and leave them to the believers - you thus avoid getting your “knickers in a twist”! I would remind you that there appear to be many more believers than non-believers.
Excuse me but what has religion got to do with the subject?
Jan 10th, 2016 - 08:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gibraltar has a double veto to stop any talks about sovereignty, which means that NO TALKS ABOUT SOVEREIGNTY WILL EVER TAKE PLACE and there is no point whatsoever in pleading and begging the UK for talks. That is what riles the heirs of the filthy dictator who have made Spain ungovernable.
The malevolence lies with those who want to impose themselves on others. That is the way of the jihadists, similar to what Spain wants to impose on Gibraltar and Argentina on the Falklands. They can forget it!!!!
@35 british Always
Jan 10th, 2016 - 09:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please see 8 above and my reply @ 11.
However some buffoon decided to make more of it - see @14.
Yeah that’s the trouble, these people keep going backwards with the most absurd arguments. The Spaniards have broken treaties of all sorts mainly the exchange of Florida and Menorca for Gibraltar in 1784, and centuries later they think they can revive an idiotic claim. That’s why, I repeat, in Gibraltar we ignore cretins. NO CLAIM EXISTS.
Jan 11th, 2016 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@37
Jan 11th, 2016 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The claim exists BUT shouldn't as there is no basis for it!
Does Spain intend to hand over Ceuta & Melilla to Morocco?
Jan 11th, 2016 - 09:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or do they want their cake & eat it too?
ChrisR & gordo1,
Your spat is very entertaining, please continue. lol!
However l do believe in an Afterlife.
l guess you could call it Heaven, but l don't think it is anything like the traditional Heaven that some believe.
We will all have to wait & see!
@ 39 lsolde
Jan 12th, 2016 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“We will all have to wait & see!”
Just so AND I hope I am wrong!
@39 Isolde
Jan 12th, 2016 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“l don't think it is anything like the traditional Heaven that some believe” - I believe the most disappointed believers are those members of the Islamic faith who acts of terrorism qualify them for the attentions of large numbers of beautiful virgins upon their arrival in Jannah or, even, Firdaws. Dream on, fools!
Is there a Muslim 'Hell'? Or is that Los Angeles?
Jan 13th, 2016 - 07:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Can't help myself, l have to repeat this naughty joke.
Jan 13th, 2016 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0A suicide bomber arrives in the Afterlife & is greeted by an Angelic being.
“you've killed a lot of people & many of them were virgins.”
“lt will now be your duty to sexually satisfy their souls”
“l can handle that” says the bomber, “where are these women?”
The Angel replies, “who told you that they were women?”
Spain wants Gibraltar. Argentina wants the Falklands. Mexico wants Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona and the rest. Get real it is not going to happen. Gibraltar has been British since 1713, the Falklands since 1833. Texas has been part of the United States since 1845 and California and the rest since 1848. Nothing’s going to change. These places have democratically elected governments and are happy with their status. They will not accept outsiders telling them they should be ruled by someone else.
Jan 13th, 2016 - 08:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks to wikipedia
Jan 13th, 2016 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam
@3
Jan 14th, 2016 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Perhaps hepatia could give us some idiotic idea of when the UK will return Gibraltar to the Spanish?”
Wow, that's a real hard one to work out. After racking my brains I guess that according to hepatia Gibraltar would be given to Spain 25 years from 2016, then 25 years from 2017, then 25 years from 2018 in perpetuity, until the sun becomes a red dwarf . Whilst everyone else and their dog will be escaping Earth, Spain will land gloriously on a scorched Gibraltar and plant their flag three months before it is burned by the sun's rays. (Like father, like son-or in this case the other way around).
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