MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands: Back to the future, why the 'new approach' from Argentina is completely missing the point
By the Honourable Mike Summers, OBE (*) - Over the weekend of the 6th and 7th February, the press in Argentina reported that the Government of Argentina (GoA) was going to change its approach to its treatment of the Falkland Islands, its relationship with the United Kingdom and how it intends to “resolve the Falklands question” Read full article
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Feb 10th, 2016 - 03:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mr. Officer of the Most Excellent Order of the Brutish Empire says...:
“ We are a People...”
We say...:
No, you ain't.
Benjamin Franklin's say...:
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome.”.... works both ways.
“The people who live on the Falkland Islands do not constitute a people. They are British subjects who happen to live on the Falkland Islands”.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 03:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0- Richard Gott
MCLA Summers: “we have the universally-recognised human right to determine our own political future”.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 06:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0I say: “Oh dear!”
Same old colonial propaganda.
@2 Marquitos Alejandrito
Feb 10th, 2016 - 06:48 am - Link - Report abuse 01) Richard Gott, suspected of being a former Soviet spy, is hardly a person to give a sensible opinion on anything!
2) So the population of the Channel Islands, too, are British subjects who happen to live on Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney and Sark.
3) I see, on this occasion, you have made the grown up decision to call the archipelago “Falkland Islands” and not the dreaded “Malvinas”!
Oh please, save everyone here from another incestuous, perpetual 150+ thread.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 07:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone who has ever set an unbiased toe on those rocks quickly becomes keenly aware that the Islanders constituent the definition of “a people” via even the narrowest of interpretations. Unique by culture, history, linguistics, government and geographical isolation; all steadfastly reinforced by time and procreation. You don't have to like it, or how it came about, but it's the truth nonetheless.
Do any of you actually believe that Think/Voice/Vestige, Marco, Islas, Hepatia, and the rest of the usual suspects actually believe any of the drivel they consistently regurgitate on here regarding the Falklands?
I suspect they're just having a (perverted) laugh throwing out the bait and seeing who bites.
It's been done to death on these boards.
Have fun I guess. To each their own (as no one is forcing me to read it).
G'night.
D
5 DerkeBlake (#)
Feb 10th, 2016 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Quite right.
Remember these are the same folks who do not understand the difference between a binding and non-binding UN Declaration.
Then again we are all baffled how a UN Working groups has said Julian Assange was/is the subject of Arbitrary Detention. He jumped bail and hid in a foreign Embassy. Not like we shoved him in there.
But even so, what are we supposed to do about it. JA is subject of a legal European Arrest warrant. Should he leave the Embassy he will be arrested.
The great news is the democratically elected people from the Falkland islands are making their Voices heard across the world.
Argentina can continue to spout lies and half truths but in the end the Truth will win.
The islanders have rights and as Argentina can't force the matter or bribe the UK nothing to talk about .
Feb 10th, 2016 - 08:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina does not have the law on its side.
Argentina doesnt not have might on its side.
All it can do is whine
@5
Feb 10th, 2016 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thing is, Think, Marco & co are dumb enough to confirm exactly what Summers just said. As they have done.
The only “ people ” who matter in this case are the FALKLANDERS and they have the right to determine their own future. Argentina time to move on. Look after your own first.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Oooooh the usurpation and the UN resolutions.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 10:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0Ha!
https://www.academia.edu/21721198/Falklands_1833_Usurpation_and_UN_Resolutions
I agree with #'s 5 & 6.... and most of you others aside from the pillock Rg's who continue that inane rant of theirs... I can't imagine they have ever been to the islands to have a look, or for that matter further south than Comodoro Rivadavia where they discovered it was too windy and cold for them... Leave the Kelpers be.. they are a great people well organised and now quite self sufficient ... Let the Argentine's fix the immense problems that exist on the mainland rather than spewing on about some moronic treatise they think they have claim to. Punto!!
Feb 10th, 2016 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not only a PEOPLE but a NATION.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0The truth might be inconvenient for Argentina.
But it doesn't make it any less truthful.
@1 Think,
Feb 10th, 2016 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0And we don't give a rat's arse what you say or think, Think.
l thought that was Einstein who said that, no matter.
@2 Marcos,
Richard Gott is a stupid traitor from the loony left.
They would give their mothers away if it made them feel warm & fuzzy inside.
Another one who we don't give a rat's arse about.
@3 lslas something or other,
Que?
And before that half-wit Hepatia posts her foolishness.
When is Argentina going to return to Paraguay, the land you stole in 1871?
Soon? or never?
Hypocrites.
Think(and Is Malv.) - Behind the times old boy. In the late 1960s when there were UK-Arg talks we were indeed an old fashioned Colony - with majority of the rule coming from London.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 11:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike Argentina - the Islands and UK have both moved on from 50 yrs ago! Today we are NOT in a Colonial situation as you well know. We freely exercise our votes every 4 years to choose those who make and govern our laws that we live by. We also choose by an international verified and supervised free Referendum to have Britain responsible for our Foreign Affairs and defence.
Its Argentina that maybe wishes to live in the past still and churn out the same old story - Oh, and prefers perhaps to draw a veil over 1982 as if their military invasion and occupation against the Islanders will - and subsequent total failure to comply with a binding UN Security Council resolution - all never happened!
Yes indeed - do please read again what the American guy said!
The Argentine mentality of colonizing anything different forcing its customs, religion and politics on to the different society must give way to living in friendship with those different societies.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0It urgently needs to supply its children and interested adults with the originals of all the documentation pertaining to the Falklands including the 1850 peace treaty without reservations for the Falklands sovereignty hence recognizing the legal presence of the UK on the Falklands and its sovereignty.
Also they must inform its people of the final ceremony off the Falklands by the Spanish Armada of 1863 which is completely unknown in Argentina..Admiral Pinzón after salutations and exchanging gifts, Spain left the Falklands in peace and for the last time... Supplying the complete truth would be the only way an Argentine government could survive and resolve the problem of the invented case of Falklands sovereignty of 1941, and 70 years of deep indoctrination.
They must cease the censorship of History (which they call Malvinización) and the indoctrination which they vigorously persue (which they call Concientización) .. This was the cause of the last war and will be the cause of any future wars!..
They should show their people their old maps where from 1850 Argentina stuck to the 1850 peace treaty and put the Falklands outside its territory.
They should tell their public that because a nation doesn't declare independence and remains loyal to the Crown like the Kelpers on the Falklands or Canada it doesn't follow that they don't have self determination only because they are not renegades, republicans or rebels, that is a choice Argentina may have made but it is not compulsory in order to determine the future of a nation.
Fortunately Think, UN Res 567 of 1952 says that there are no NSGTs without a people. Which rather sorts Argentina's nonsense out on that issue.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0@1. Semantics, girlie, just semantics. We've heard it before. Didn't work then!
Feb 10th, 2016 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@2. Always nice to hear the drivel of a KGB agent!
@3. A comment put forward from the land of imperialist colonialist genocides.
Now that we've seen off the mentally retarded.......
It is good to see an elected representative telling it, honestly, like it is. Unlike the Kirchners who spent their time in power lying and, more importantly, stealing. We will have to wait years for the Kirchnerist propagandists to die. Although intelligent people in said territory could help us out. Is it possible that mental retardation could lead to an early death?
I highly suspect if Argentina followed what has been my suggestion all along, accept the Islanders as British nationals and completely and utterly ignore everything else in the supposed “bilateral” relation (what relation can there be between 3.000 people, the size of a neighborhood and a GDP that is probably in the 1/1000s compared to “the other side”), they would also be moaning.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Because the reality is that if Argentina finally came to its senses on this issue, they correct way to deal with the Falklands would be as if they are non-existent, and aside from respecting their economic waters and way of life, have absolutely nothing to negotiate or dialogue with them.
#18 - I suspect that the islanders would rather appreciate that :-)
Feb 10th, 2016 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@19
Feb 10th, 2016 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suspect they would not and I suspect your response style is similar in origin to that of applying salt to a snail. It's almost certain they would “blast” Argentina for being “lofty” and ignoring them when they so want to “dialogue”.
Dialogue about what? There is nothing to dialogue about and no government in their right mind would subordinate the rights of 43 million to the whims of 3.000. The reality is there is nothing to discuss.
You are correct #20 - there is nothing to discuss. The matter is settled. Has been settled for 27 years in fact. Argentina can have as many childish hissy fits as it wishes, all the Islanders want is to be left alone. So take your excellent advice, and leave them alone. They'll really appreciate it - whatever you think.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1
Feb 10th, 2016 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“We say...: No, you ain't.”
Perhaps the Argentine fascists could explain how, in Argentina's bizarre world-view, a people such as the Jamaicans would have self-government? Jamaica was taken from Spain (far more clearly than the Falklands were “taken” from Argentina), and the current population of Jamaica was “implanted” by Britain (again, far more clearly than immigrants to the Falklands were ever “implanted” by Britain).
So how would the Argentines ever justify giving self-government and self-determination to the Jamaicans? Or does Argentina regard Jamaica as a part of Spain?
(For that matter, as Argentina seems to claim the right to 'inherit' all former Spanish colonies as a matter of course, perhaps Argentina regards Jamaica as a part of Argentina!)
#18 I can confirm we would very much appreciate this approach. There is nothing we need from Argentina except to be left alone to continue our successful development in whatever way we choose. If after time people from either side decided they wished to talk to each other as neighbours, that would be fine.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the mean time Summers talks a lot of sense. 50 year old failed thinking will not work now. Accept the Falkland Islanders are real people with a right to their own lives, and over time trust and respect might re-emerge.
@5. lol.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The would be uninvited, canuckie surfaces.
Hey beggar boy!
I'll bet you are universally loathed by everyone that has the pleasure on an ongoing basis.
#20
Feb 10th, 2016 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dialogue about what? There is nothing to dialogue about and no government in their right mind would subordinate the rights of 43 million to the whims of 3.000. The reality is there is nothing to discuss.
The point is the 3000 have the fundamental human right of self determination.
Under the Mad Woman, Argentina has repeatedly tried to deny the People of the Falkland islands this right.
The People of the the Falkland Islands have to do nothing, they exist and control their own destiny.
And again it has to be stated the one Binding UN declaration regarding the Falkland islands was the one in 1982 ordering Argentina to remove all it's military forces.
This Argentina failed to do, so they had to be removed by force.
Thus the legacy for the FREE People of the Falkland Islands was Independence from Argentina.
The same Richard Willoughby Gott (born 28 October 1938, Aston Tirrold, England) is a British journalist and historian. A former Latin America correspondent and features editor for the British newspaper The Guardian, he is known for his radical politics and a connection to Che Guevara. He resigned from The Guardian in 1994 after claims that he had been a Soviet 'agent of influence', a tag Gott denied. Gott admitted taking money from the KGB
Feb 10th, 2016 - 03:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(22) R. Ben Madison
Feb 10th, 2016 - 03:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm not an “Argentine Fascist”..., rather a Patagonian Socialdemocrat from the Olof Palme / Bernie Sanders school of thought and I have a couple of questions about your Jamaican analogy ...:
Are Jamaicans full British citizens?
Are Jamaicans used as an excuse by the remains of the failed
Brutish Empire to claim ~12.000.000 square kilometers of land and sea territories in the caribbean?
why not independence?
Feb 10th, 2016 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the problem are not the portenos, the risk is a leftist labor prime minister
@9 golfcronie ”...they (the FALKLANDERS) have the right to determine their own future..“ No objections on our part. And we even may add: ” and also the future of their O W N land” . What the islanders have been, up to the present, unable to grasp is that to us, Argentines, the case of the Islands is rather a ripple within a huge wave of British and European imperialism, marked by these outstanding dates :
Feb 10th, 2016 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 01806 : First English invasion to Buenos Aires. 1.400 men (General William Carr BERESFORD). Repulsed
1807 : Second English invasion : 10.000 men (General Whitelocke). Also repulsed.
1833 : Seizure of the Islands.
1845: Invasion and blockade of Argentina by a combined French-British fleet.
It is simply childish the British claim that no official Argentine nation existed at the time. Our ancestors suffered the artillery and musketry fire of the invaders, disregarding any consideration on their colonial or independent status.
1,2,3, are all “Think”, “I say”.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 03:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@24 Chronic
You are the only uninvited, unwanted, and universally loathed, besides Think that is.
As to “surfacing” - what a pathetic game of hide and seek from you !
After bragging about living in Chicago, you ran and hid when offered a chance to prove it!!
And as to braying on, in a most unAmerican way about “pikers” and bad manners... Your cultural and regionalized false indignation gave you away as a complete FAKE.
For all we know, you are Think/wee voice also.
Fake fake fake!!!
'Are Jamaicans full British citizens?'
Feb 10th, 2016 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They were until independence
'Are Jamaicans used as an excuse by the remains of the failed
Brutish Empire to claim ~12.000.000 square kilometers of land and sea territories in the caribbean?'
Using a claim to a territory as a basis for a claim to another territory is what Argentina does. It uses its claim to the Falklands as the basis for its claim to SG&SS. The UK has never used the Falklands as a basis for its sovereignty over other territories in the area.
@29
Feb 10th, 2016 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why do you Argies always bring up the past,not relevant in the world today. You should thank your lucky stars that the Yanks asked the UK not to attack mainland Argentina in 1982 otherwise you would be under the control of the UK. So think yourselves lucky and move on.
Argentina has learned nothing. Same old Mad Dog bully. Same old '30s fascism.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 05:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A Bankrupted Pariah among nations.
There is something sick & rotten in the argentine core.
They just don't get it.
I have had a word with a certain Adolf Hitler and his mate El Duche down here and they both confirm thst El Think certainly is a fascist and furthermore they are looking forward to him joining them very shortly. I pointed out Think's socialist stance and they maintain that that is no barrier to fascism, he has all the necessary attributes. The other chap Ghengis Khan said that Think should think bigger in terms of colonialistic ambitions and start on Chile and Paraguay instead of the tiny Falkland Islands with the ultimate aim of colonialising North America including the USA.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's Duce... you Douche...
Feb 10th, 2016 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quite possible. We like neither pirates nor sepoys.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27 Thinkolini
Feb 10th, 2016 - 06:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you been at the Lyndon Larouche juice or something?
“Olof Palme and the Neo-Nazi International
EXECUTIVE INTELLIGENCE REVIEW
Strategic Studies
by Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr.
June 8, 1982
In the middle of our investigator's discussions with Dr. Engdahl, the leading Swedish Nazi volunteered an account of his warm reception by then-Prime Minister Olof Palme. Whether he fully understands it or not, this was the gist of Dr. Engdahl's observation: Social Democrat Olof Palme is an excellent fascist.1 TheNold Nazi leader referred to Palme's socio-economic programmatic policies as proof of the fascist commitments of the Swedish Socialist International figure. By every objective standard of scholarship concerning fascism, there was not a jot or tittle of exaggeration in Engdahl's characterization of Palme as a fascist. ”
http://laroucheplanet.info/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Library.PalmeNeoNazi
Comment removed by the editor.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(38) georgenerurus
Feb 10th, 2016 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you ever considered Anger Management Therapy?
If the islanders want to talk to us about “ matters of mutual interest,” this is our agenda , with the following topics of the day : 1 ) Sovereignty. 2) Sovereignty. 3) Sovereignty ... . 99 ) Sovereignty. 100 ) Transport, Tourism , fishing, oil and any other nonsense wishing squatters ..!
Feb 10th, 2016 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@39 on his to do list. Along with rational thought and not typing with headbutts.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#35 El Think - we have a large prominent Argentinian contingent down here. The boss man is a chap called Rocca, he got quite annoyed when I confused him with the ice cream chappie. His solution is a bit more distasteful than Adolfs idea of bombing the Falklands and invading, Rocca says “just go in and genocide the lot and enslave any survivors like what I did in Patagonia!” He hangs around with some one eyed git, a very tarty screeching peroxide blond and some ex military guy who break into tears if you mention the Falklands. He screeches Malvinas, Malvinas all the time driving everyone mad. When you get here everybody would be very pleased if you could shut this crowd up.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Best regards
Lucan
(31) dab14763
Feb 10th, 2016 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“The UK has never used the Falklands as a basis for its sovereignty over other territories in the area.”
I say...:
Never...?
“Falkland Islands Dependencies was the constitutional arrangement for administering the British territories in Sub-Antarctica and Antarctica from 1843 until 1985.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_Dependencies
You were saying.....
@40
Feb 10th, 2016 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The islanders will talk to you but have no need to.
Sovereignty is not 1 or 100 and is not on the agenda.
Your loss.
.Being as the argentine brainwashed government lives in a dream land,
Feb 10th, 2016 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps they are waiting for corbyn the brainless to become British prime minister,
Or Moses to close the argentine sea between them and the Falkland’s, instead of parting it,
Whichever way one wants to look at it,
They have no claim, and no case, just pure greed,
Nothing more and nothing less, pure greed.
The British Falkland’s were, are, and always will be British, until the islanders say otherwise,
Anything else, is simply not cricket…
@30 Troy
Feb 10th, 2016 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, poor hapless little chronic, so unfairly hoisted with his own petard; I once saw a circus bear on a tricycle backpedal less awkwardly.
Being exposed as a coward, fraud and liar has to hurt, so take pity. Kids are bound to lash out.
Hopefully the lesson will be taken to heart and he won't continue to write cheques on a keyboard that his existence can't cash. All mouth and no trousers, as they say.
Of course there's always redemption waiting around every corner. We hope to be in Chicago from the 24th - 26th of June to see the Jays embarrass the White Sox (never been to the new Comisky Park). Maybe he'll send a RR “Phantom or Ghost” or some other appropriately monikered vehicle to take us to his club. If not, at least Uber is allowed at O'Hare now.
You know, credit where credit is due; when puppeteer extraordinaire ElThink/Voice/Vestige broke my heart and turned me down for a pint in Chubut this past November, he was sufficiently wise enough not to poke the bear again (egads, maybe chronic is right; I am desperate for companionship!). And to his credit, El Think does regularly demonstrate a modicum of originality, even if he and chronic do inhabit the same blank continuum.
Cheerio!
#43 Think - The Dependencies were always separate territories merely administered from the Falklands for convenience. When it was realised that Argentine's couldn't understand how that worked, they were removed as Dependencies and now have their own Commissioner.
Feb 10th, 2016 - 10:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dab is quite right - the Falklands were not used as the basis for other territorial claims as the sub-Antarctic Islands and Antarctica are British - each in their own right.
(47)
Feb 10th, 2016 - 10:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bullfeathers....!
You know it... Dab knows it... I know it...
@48 Think & friends(himself, himself, himself & himself. Think l've got them all!).
Feb 10th, 2016 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You know nothing, peon.
You're a chancer looking for a crack in our defence.
Corbyn must be like the 2nd coming of Christ to you.
Sorry(no l'm not sorry at all, he he he)to burst your bubble but you & your ilk will never see the Falklands, the way you want it.
Move on Think.
Get yourself a girlfriend or boyfriend, grow roses or take up Origami or something constructive.
Stop being such a loser.
Just wait until all the Paki's, Africans and other general sand dwellers start over flowing from London and ending up on those windy rocks.
Feb 11th, 2016 - 12:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK will return the Malvinas within 25 years.
Feb 11th, 2016 - 12:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Very interesting to see that every time anyone starts a debate on the Falkland Islands issue the Argentines wade in with every spoiled child tactic ever invented. The one thing we as Islanders can hold our heads up to is that we and our forefathers chose to live on the Islands of our own free will. We never stole any land as is the recorded case of Argentina who removed an indigenous people from their land and got away with it. The Falkland Islanders have stood their ground without war mongering but common sense and has consistently informed the world just how it really is. In 1982 Argentina thought they could take us by force but they forgot the one most important element. Self determination backed by human rights and an Iron Lady who said that no one in the modern world should be allowed to bully a people and deny them of their rights to choose the future they desire. Today those same Argentines are still licking their wounds and simply hate the fact that a mere 2,000 people at the time refused to accept their devious ways and today we are very much firmer in our determination because we still have the right to choose and Argentina does not form any part of our choosing. No the Falklands will not be returned in 25 years , a hundred years or a millennium of time because the world has moved on and democracy rules now. Shout all you want try to change our minds because you will be banging your thick heads against an Iron wall.
Feb 11th, 2016 - 02:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0@52
Feb 11th, 2016 - 03:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0No, you exterminated the local wildlife to exploit the area economically. How lofty of you. You are just as criminal as anyone else. And remember you got to the Falklands and got to keep the Falklands by being under the umbrella of the military of an Empire that committed countless atrocities and on the backs of millions of deaths so you could have your home today.
Spare me your innocence your hands and that of all British alive today drip with the blood of Empire.
#48 You appear to know very little Think. For example, the British claim to the South Shetlands is not reliant upon Britain's sovereignty over the Falklands. Entirely separate and with a separate history. It's easy to understand old man - even for one as old as you.
Feb 11th, 2016 - 06:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0#53 Of course the Spanish Empire was entirely bloodless :-)
@53 Tobi
Feb 11th, 2016 - 06:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're a strange one to figure out (so I won't make an attempt); but please don't pretend that you believe a syllable of that claptrap. I can't even begin to comprehend your angle, other than sad, primitve tribalism. Maybe I give you too much credit. I'd be disappointed if you're offering nothing more than rerun gibberish? Try again.
“If these press reports are accurate, thirty-five years on Argentina has run out of fresh ideas and, rather than focussing on the core issue at the heart of the question, it is going over old ground, just hoping for change. As Benjamin Franklin purportedly said, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome.”
Feb 11th, 2016 - 06:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0Well said Mr Summers, you have cut to the chase and got down to the core issue ”a question of basic human rights”.
Hepatitis will be cured in the next 25 years! Yellow one.
Feb 11th, 2016 - 08:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0@51Hepatia,
Feb 11th, 2016 - 09:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Argentina will return the land that they stole from Paraguay within 25 years.
@53
Feb 11th, 2016 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0And there it is again, the reductio ad anglophobium, or in other words when all else fails bring out the British Empire, as if it somehow constitutes a Get Out of Jail free card for Argentina.
Tobi is not right in the head.
Feb 11th, 2016 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He is the eternal victim & just not worth bothering about.
Poor, poor Tobi.
What's wrong with a ‘lease-back’ agreement?
Feb 11th, 2016 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Eg. starting in, say 2017, and if Argentina still exists in the year 402017, they can have the islands as an autonomous province?
In #1 poor, poor Shrinkbrain tries to tell us, that the Falkland Islanders are not a people.
Feb 11th, 2016 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In this he is contradicting the UN C24 Special Committee, but perhaps one of Shrinkbrain's three synapses knows better?
The official title of the decolonisation committee is:
“The Special Committee on the Situation with regard to the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence of Colonial COUNTRIES and PEOPLES.”
http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/specialcommittee.shtml
Any territory on C-24's list is by definition either a country or a people. As The Falkland Islands is on the list, but is not a country, only the designation as a people is possible.
Shrinkbrain, put a towel in through one ear, pull it out through the opposite and rub carefully to remove your brain fart.
@ 29 argfellow: “It is simply childish the British claim that no official Argentine nation existed at the time.”
Feb 11th, 2016 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As has been documented time and again on the en.mercopress forum, using Argentine documents, there wasn't any Argentine republic before 1860 or 1861 (one might argue it existed from 9 July 1859 (“Tratado de Reconocimiento, Paz y Amistad Firmado por la Confederación Argentina con S.M. la Reina de España”) or following “Segunda Batalla de Cepeda” 23 October 1859).
Throughout the years 1814 to 1860 (it actually continued on a small scale until 1880) Argentinas Embrionaria was raged by civil wars. Argentine sources show a total of 415 civil war battles in the years 1814-1880.
Argentinas Embrionaria = ProtoArgentina, what later became Argentina, had as late as late as 23 October 1859 (even as late as 17 September 1861, although this can be disputed):
two states (La Confederación and Estado de Buenos Ayres)
two capitals (Paraná and Buenos Ayres)
two constitutions (1853 (La Confederación) and 1854 (Estado de Buenos Aires))
two senats
two congresses
two de facto presidents (Urquiza (Conf. to 1860) and Alsina (called the supreme director, EdBA). Santiago Derqui was Confederate president 1860-61.
Does that look like one country to you?
To me it is embarrassing that Argentine citizens do not even know the outlines of their own history.
@ 40 Turd Island
Feb 11th, 2016 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If the islanders want to talk to us ...”
Which is exactly what the Falklanders do NOT want to.
If the Argentines pulled the plug, so that Argentina disappeared into the Atlantic, the Falklanders would just shrug, and perhaps - perhaps - throw a wreath on the ocean.
,Anti anti anti,
Feb 11th, 2016 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you can always tell when the argies are desperate, and have no answer, hey start slagging of the brits,
Shame then, they so easily forget their own terrifying bloody murdering past. .oops.
Doesn't this same group of people EVER get tired of arguing over this subject? It is long past time to stop beating this dead horse.
Feb 11th, 2016 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Their psyche cannot handle the fact that they were defeated in 1982.
Feb 11th, 2016 - 09:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They have to win, all the time.
As we all know, you cannot win all the time.
You just have to get over it & move on.
We've had our defeats in the past but we've had our victories also.
lts a blow to their macho pride.
Tough bananas.
@ 66 Millet
Feb 11th, 2016 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the nice thing about beating a dead horse is that it doesn't scream when beaten.
To some of us it's very easy to beat this particular horse.
I, and eg. Roger Lord Ton it's the simple process of opening a file or two, cut a bit of text + documentation and paste it into the small window, followed - in accordance to our present mood - perhaps add some derogatory (naughty-naughty :) ) description of the 3-brain-celled Argentino (half of them are not very bright, like Shrinkbrain from Chewbut or Axel Arg, while other Argentinos have perfectly normal brains and show an adult and pragmatic attitude towards eg. The Falkland Islands).
@66
Feb 11th, 2016 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Flogging a dead horse is one thing, but this is a pantomime horse, and the Argentines shot it themselves.
Actually I think most of you are missing the real point here... this Argentine Government cannot, simply cannot, give up their claim, none ever can... its political suicide.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0So instead they've taken the very British approach of doing as little as possible, whilst saying the right things acceptable to their own public, whilst getting on with business in the background regardless.
I rather suspect there are far more Argentines quietly pissed-off with the entire Falklands issue, than they are rabid Mavlvinistas... the Malvos are simply loud and rude.
Most Argentines just want a decent economy, less corruption and to beat Brazil at football for a change.
@70
Feb 12th, 2016 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0An intelligent post. That's odd.
Funny how they expect Argentina to drop the claim, because it is decent, but the UK and all other European nations STILL cannot come to apologize FORMALLY AND UNCONDITIONALLY for Empire.
Typical Euro-Anglo hypocrisy. They want others to perform noble acts they themselves have proven reliably and biologically incapable of performing.
@54
I never have praised the Spanish Empire. It was just as bad as the British Empire. Has nothing to do with us.
The Shetlands are part of Antarctica and thus no nation on Earth recognizes the UK's claim on that. Sorry bud.
@55
So please expound, what areas of my post are “inaccurate”? How did the British get to hold the Falklands? Before the 1833 crap that I careless for... Was it a gift? Did the British build them? How? How did the British get to keep them?
Would they have been able to keep them without a deterring navy? How was that navy financed? The financing came from all the dead people that cleared away land for colonies, and from all the oppressed people that added GDP value and trading might.
So yes, the Falklanders have their homeland because of blood of Empire. Had it not, they would have lost it to some other power.
And how is the Warrah doing?
Tobias “So please expound, what areas of my post are “inaccurate”? How did the British get to hold the Falklands? Before the 1833 crap that I careless for... Was it a gift? Did the British build them? How? How did the British get to keep them?”
Feb 12th, 2016 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0How did Argentina get to hold the provinces Formosa, Chaco and Misiones?
How did Argentina get to hold Patagonia?
How did Argentina get to hold Argentina?
How did Sapin get to hold Spanish America?
Was it a gift? Did Argentina and Spain build them? How? How did first Spain, then Argentina get to keep them?
Tobias, what is this extremely well known street in Mendoza called?
http://sr1.wine-searcher.net/images/news/48/78/argentina-mendoza-demonstration-10004878.jpg
@71
Feb 12th, 2016 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ The Shetlands are part of Antartica and thus no nation on Earth recognises the UK's claim on that ”
LOL Did you go to an Argentine school LOL I am in hysterics here. For your edification, The Sheltalnds are considerably nearer the ARCTIC than the Antartic. So much for the geography lesson you had. LOL
@73 Golfcronie
Feb 12th, 2016 - 05:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It seems that NOSTRILS (Tobi) does not know there are the Shetlands near England and the South Shetlands near the Falklands and other areas discovered charted and named by the British.
They are the South Shetlands, nothing else.
Just as the Falklsnd Islands are just that and not the Malvinas.
Nothing to do with Argentina.
@2 Marquitos Alejandrito
Feb 12th, 2016 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Herewith copy of remark on Wikipedia - The Guardia Newspaper
“Journalist allegedly working for Russian intelligence services.
In 1995, KGB defector Oleg Gordievsky identified prominent Guardian editor Richard Gott as one of his agents. While Gott denied that he received cash, he confessed taking benefits from the KGB on a visit to the Soviet Union.
Gordievsky commented on the newspaper: ”The KGB loved The Guardian. It was deemed highly susceptible to penetration”.[
@2
Feb 12th, 2016 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The people who live on the Falkland Islands do not constitute a people“
Gott is a moron. How can people not be people?
Read that slowly Marcos, and you will see that Gott has contradicted himself in the same sentence.
However, if you wish, use him as your prime witness at the ICJ, while we get ready to laugh.
@71
”Funny how they expect Argentina to drop the claim, because it is decent,”
History suggests it isn't decent, that's why you don't take it to the ICJ.
You don't have to drop the claim if it makes you happy, it's just that you have no case to claim the islands that is either better than the British case or overrides self determination.
No ICJ , no claim , no honour , no respect,
Feb 12th, 2016 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No nothing, argentine government needs to grow up and live in the real world,
instead of that fantasy one.
ICJ, way to go!
Feb 12th, 2016 - 08:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What are you frightened about, malvinistas?
lf you are SO SURE of your “claim”, then why will you not go to court?
You know the court will hand you the lslands IF you can prove that they are yours.
ANSWER, You know damn well that these lslands are NOT yours & you are hoping for a miracle.
Sorry for you lads(no l'm NOT sorry, l love it, snigger), no cigar for you today.
Now get lost.
Yes,Argies,try the ICJ.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If Nicaragua can get a win over the USA ,surely you have a good chance!
Uninformed Anglos at (77), (78) & (79)... please infotm yourselves...:
Feb 13th, 2016 - 11:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ 1. The Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland accept as compulsory ipso facto and without special convention, on condition of reciprocity, the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, in conformity with paragraph 2 of Article 36 of the Statute of the Court, until such time as notice may be given to terminate the acceptance, over all disputes arising after 1 January 1984, with regard to situations or facts subsequent to the same date...”
http://www.icj-cij.org/jurisdiction/?p1=5&p2=1&p3=3&code=GB
In plain Engrish, for them Anglo Turnips and Turnipettes...:
The U.K. does NOT accept the I.C.J. jurisdiction over any dispute arised BEFORE the 1. January 1984.
The Malvinas/Falklands dispute arose, as commonly known, the 3. January 1833...
80 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 13th, 2016 - 12:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The U.K. does NOT accept the I.C.J. jurisdiction over any dispute arised BEFORE the 1. January 1984.”
Is simply a “put-up or shut-up clause” which makes perfect sense. Regardless Argentina on her own initiative could make an application unilaterally to ICJ, through the UNGA for an advisory opinion. “Please infotm yourselve”
European Journal of International Law Jurisdiction and Compliance in Recent Decisions of the International Court of Justice
“...One of the more interesting revelations arising from Judge Oda's study is how few ICJ cases actually arrive at final judgment relative to their docket. Of the 98 cases in the Court's docket from 1946–1999, 90 were considered distinct ‘contentious cases’,45 of which only 47 were fit for examination.46 Among those 47, 11 were submitted by special agreement,47 while the remaining 36 were brought before the Court by means of unilateral application. ...”
http://www.ejil.org/pdfs/18/5/250.pdf
Think
Feb 13th, 2016 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe you will find that according to international law the alleged dispute was resolved in 1840 by way of the Arana Southern treaty when it was mutually agreed that the two nations
“VII. Under this Convention perfect friendship between Her Britannic Majesty's Government and the Government of the Confederation, is restored to its former state of good understanding and cordiality.”
Even Argentine historians and lawyers have agreed that this treaty negates any claim that Argentina might have over the archipelago.
So please, by all means, encourage your Government to “put up or shut up”!
Think
Feb 13th, 2016 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It says COMPULSORY Jurisdiction, not that the UK will not accept the jurisdiction of the Court for cases arising before 1984 under any circumstances
Nothing to stop a state filing a suit for a dispute arising before 1984. Compulsory jurisdiction simply means the Court can automatically try the case. Where a state doesn't recognise compulsory jurisdiction the Court needs the consent of the other party before proceeding:
(d) Forum prorogatum
If a State has not recognized the jurisdiction of the Court at the time when an application instituting proceedings is filed against it, that State has the possibility of accepting such jurisdiction subsequently to enable the Court to entertain the case: the Court thus has jurisdiction as of the date of acceptance in virtue of the rule of forum prorogatum.
eg UK filed suit regarding FI dependencies against Argentina and Chile though they hadn't (and still haven't) signed up to the Court's compulsory jurisdiction. The suit didn't proceed because Argentina and Chile wouldn't give consent.
They quote then run,
Feb 13th, 2016 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0argies are good at that,
still,
an Anglo turnip is better than an Anglo Spanish onion...lol
@84 Briton,
Feb 13th, 2016 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Quite witty old chap!
@80 clutching-at-straws Think,
lt won't wash, Think.
You are wrong again.
Whats it like, Think, to be wrong all the time?
Haven't you got anything constructive to do instead of cluttering up these pages with your nonsense?
Grow flowers or take up hang gliding, anything to get you out of your hovel, er house.
You haven't got any better with the passage of time.
(85) Isolde, dahling...
Feb 13th, 2016 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Could that pretty little mind of yours please explain which part of...:
“The Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland accept as compulsory ipso facto and without special convention, on condition of reciprocity, the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, in conformity with paragraph 2 of Article 36 of the Statute of the Court, until such time as notice may be given to terminate the acceptance, over all disputes arising after 1 January 1984, with regard to situations or facts subsequent to the same date...”
................................................................ won't wash?
Thanks in advance
À bientôt
Think
Trouble understanding English Think. Dab is quite correct. At least Britain is prepared to accept the automatic jurisdiction of the ICJ for cases arising after 1984. Argentina has not signed up to recognise the automatic jurisdiction of the ICJ - at all.
Feb 13th, 2016 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps you just fail to understand how these things work, old man. I'll put it down to age - rather than the stupidity it appears to be.
Trouble understanding your English, Mr. Lorton...
Feb 13th, 2016 - 11:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What would be the relevance for the Malvinas issue that Britain is prepared to accept the automatic jurisdiction of the ICJ for cases arising after 1984?
Perhaps Think can enlighten us as to how it's possible for the UK to file a suit against Argentina even though Argentina hasn't signed up the Court's compulsory jurisdiction at all, but it's not possible for Argentina to file a suit for a period not covered by the UK's acceptance of the Court's compulsory jurisdiction?
Feb 13th, 2016 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(89) dab14763
Feb 13th, 2016 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Of course it is possible for Argentina to file a suit for a period not covered by the UK's acceptance of the Court's compulsory jurisdiction...
But, without previous agreement between the UK and Argentina on this matter, it would be as futile a gestus as the UK's filing that suit against Chile and Argentina about them Falkland Dependencies was...
You know that, Mr. Lorton knows that and I know that...
But the Turnips at (77), (78), (79), (81) & (82) certainly don't...
I often wonder how we the Islanders can give the Falklands back to Argentina when Argentina never owned them in the first place. Their claim lies solely in the belief they acquired them because Spain so called bought them of France. I wonder how much Spain paid the indigenous people of South America when they took their land. I know how they paid them it was in death because they butchered their way in. Meanwhile We Islanders having lived right from the beginning in total peace has caused the modern Argentine a lot of problems because they know that in todays world they simply would not be allowed to get away with ethnic cleansing and that was why in 1982 we were left alone even though some Argentines had wanted to dispose of us. Why don't you whinging malvinistos get down of your high horse and start acting like responsible people instead of the loud mouth cowboys you try to portray yourselves. That method don't work anymore and it will never make us change our ways just like we would never be agreeable to any kind of lease back because as I have already said you have never owned the Islands as we Islanders have.
Feb 14th, 2016 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0@90 think me not
Feb 14th, 2016 - 01:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's not about an agreement between the UK and Argentina - it's about UK and the Court, and Argentina and the Court.
You are just being a very disagreeable Troll.
I know that, you know that, and certainly Roger Lorton knows that .
Think - I see that you are still confused as to the nature of the British 'automatic' recognition of the ICJ's jurisdiction.
Feb 14th, 2016 - 02:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0There is no direct connection with the Falklands at all. All it means is that Britain is now prepared to accept the ICJ's jurisdiction over ANY dispute arising after 1984. It was 1974, but it seems that the UK - in line with many other signatories - will reconsider the date every decade.
None of which stops an approach to the ICJ with regard to matter preceding 1984. All it takes, within the ICJ's rules, is for the countries in dispute to negotiate a special convention (treaty) to place the matter before the ICJ.
Try to think Think - Argentina has taken Uruguay to the ICJ and yet Argentina has never signed up to automatic recognition of the ICJ's jurisdiction for any period of time.
As for futility Think, I understand what you are trying to say. After all, the UK submitted a unilateral application to the ICJ in 1955. It had to be abandoned because Chile and Argentina refused to recognise the jurisdiction of the court. But then, it was a marvelous coup for the UK as it now allows us to point out that Argentina is afraid of the ICJ. As, indeed, Argentina's numerous rejections of arbitration subject to special conventions with regard to the Beagle Channel now allow us to point out that Argentina cannot be trusted.
All Argentina has to do, for a similar coup is to very publicly invite the UK to take the issue to the ICJ. The danger, as you are well aware, Think - is that Britain may say “yes”
(93) Mr. Roger Lorton
Feb 14th, 2016 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0In your above first four paragraphs you just confirmEXACTLY what I said in my comments (80), (86), (88) & (90)...
Where is the confusion...?
Further on, you mention “A Marvelous Coup for the U.K.” in 1955...
The “Marvelous Brutish Coups” I most remember from the fifties are the Anglo American Coup against Persia in 1953 and the Anglo French Invasion of Egypt in 1956... both of those setting the basis for the current Middle Eastern conflict and that allows us to point out that the Brutish have no respect whatsoever for anything in this World and that the U.K. cannot be trusted....
@94 Think
Feb 14th, 2016 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your perception of fairly recent historical events is, of course, your personal opinion. But, kindly tell us what are the marvellous achievements of Argentina since 1950 of which you surely must be very proud - an example being, one assumes, the very brave invasion in 1982 of an undefended island community in the south Atlantic ocean.
@80
Feb 14th, 2016 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Malvinas/Falklands dispute arose, as commonly known, the 3. January 1833...”
Take this to the ICJ.
Most of the forces of the United Provinces that left in 1833 were.....British born.
The majority of the settlers that were made welcome to stay (including the black slaves that were freed from slavery by Onslow) to stay at Port Louis were......South American.
Have fun at the ICJ with that, plus the United Provinces ignorance of the British protest over the United Province's military presence.
As with 1982 Britain's claim, in 1832/1833 was reinforced with a diplomatic protest that was ignored.
On both occasions Britain was therefore given no choice but to use military means.
With the same result.
If the United Provinces in 1833. and Argentina in 1982, had not ignored diplomatic protest, maybe they could have gained more than they had/have.
Which is zero.
Argentine doctrine=winner takes all, no compromise.
That's OK if you are the winner.
@90
Feb 14th, 2016 - 02:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clearly viveza criolla can't be all it's cracked up to be, for you are sorely missing a trick here, and there is no downside to it.
Just imagine the propaganda victory you could have if Argentina invited the UK to take the matter to the ICJ, and the dastardly Brits refused. You could make cacerolazo out of that for years on end, and all for the price of a stamp!
And of course if the Brits accepted, you'd be bond to win!
Wouldn't you?
(97) Hans Niesund
Feb 14th, 2016 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You say...:
“And of course if the Brits accepted, you'd be bond to win!
Wouldn't you?”
I say...:
Depends how you define winning...
In my humble opinion,... if the case was judged by the ICJ today, the best result Argentina could expect would be, more or less, similar to the conditions Sweden got in the Åland Islands Case...
Less favourable for Argentina would be an arbitration similar to the Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon islands Case...
In any case, a much better situation for Argentina that the Colonial Status Quo of today, for sure...
Soooo, yes, I suppose you could say that Argentina woul'd be bond to win...
@98
Feb 14th, 2016 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and Think waffles...
“I say...:
Depends how you define winning... ”
Loser.
@98
Feb 14th, 2016 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're being a trifle optimistic about the Aland Islands case, in my view, since that revolved around legal title, which you don't have, and the Aland Islands were never an NSGT, which the Falklands are. As for the St Pierre and Miquelon case, that had nothing to do with sovereignity, while in terms of maritime boundaries, Argentina already has more than its legal entitlement.
But the question remains: if you think you'd be better off, what are you waiting for?
(100) Well..., my dear Hans...
Feb 14th, 2016 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It will surely come as a surprise to you..., but decisions in Argentina are not taken at Think's quasi Thoreauxian Patagonian shed...
Was just Thinking about them four murders in them windblown Islands during the wild eighties...
A pity that Agatha Christie is no more...
She could have written a nice story about how they are all related ....;-)
Dangerous place Malvinas in the early eighties, indeed...
Dangerous in the late nineties too...
Anybody remember those two Kelper youngsters that, inspired by Timothy McVeigh, stole weapons and ammunition from the FIDF and planned to kill most members of the Legislative Assembly?
What happened to them lads after the Boxer Bridge shootout?
Can't remember them names just now...
Maybe later I will...
Regards
EL Think
Think? Cmdr Allan Aldiss asked me to ask you , have you read ALL his books? If so, which was your favorite?
Feb 14th, 2016 - 04:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@101
Feb 14th, 2016 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe they're hiding out in the Aland Islands, or St Pierre & Miquelon? Is that the relevance to the question you raised?
@101 Think
Feb 14th, 2016 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I see you have not yet shown the courtesy of responding to my 95. Is there a reason?
(104) gordo1
Feb 14th, 2016 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The reason is that I try to interact as little as posible with Turnips...
Turnipidity may be contagious, you know...?
But now that I'm here... and if you want to know what I Think about the Malvinas War and our Armed Farces in particular..., you could search in MercoPress's after “*”Armed Farces“*”
You should get about 200 comments of mine about the subject...
Enjoy...
@105
Feb 14th, 2016 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I believe this is the first time that we have had any interaction I must say I find your response very odd - but, then, “nabos” can even be found in your neighbourhood I suppose!
(103) Hans Niesund
Feb 14th, 2016 - 06:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nope, they are not hiding...
They were shot, wounded and caught after a wild car chase and shootout through Puerto Estanley...
Geeeeee. WHAT WAS THEIR NAMES???
I should call their former chief, Marwin, and ask him....
Falklands,
Feb 14th, 2016 - 07:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0HAPPY VELENTINES DAY
the brits love ya.....
You're waffling again, Think.
Feb 14th, 2016 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What point are you trying to make?
Have you also got the names of the 30,000 people from Argentina that were murdered by their own government?
l think that you should be called, “clutching-at-straws-Think”
Oh & btw, your new bestest friend, Skip, disapproves of me replying to your lies.
Just thought you'd like to know! lol. Perhaps he's jealous?
@107
Feb 14th, 2016 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sure the names will turn out to be entirely germane to Argentina's perplexing disinclination to take its cast-iron, rock solid, racing certainty of a case to the only body that could possibly advance it. Otherwise, one less charitable than I might be tempted to conclude that you've got your privates stuck in your zip on that matter, and are simply trying to divert attention from the spectacle.
(109) Isolde , dahling
Feb 14th, 2016 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What point am I trying to make...?
Just reacting against some Engrish turnips fantasies about “ Crime Free” Malvinas...
Speaking about crime...
Have you practised your Tagalog with any of the newly arrived fifteen trafficked girls...
Are they country girls type... or Olongapo type?
If the ICJ ruled today Think - the Islanders would win. There is no alternative to self-determination. That is clearly stated by the UN every year and the ICJ has already said that self-determination is a right that applies to all the NSGTs - without exception.
Feb 14th, 2016 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The status quo is all Argentina will ever get Think. Live with it.
(112) Roger...
Feb 15th, 2016 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just when one needs a Copper...!
You that know sooo much about them Falklands...
What was the name of them two home grown Kelper would be terrorist lads I mention at (101)?
What happened to them?
Think- you do seem paranoia about Falklands crime levels! Every liitle place ones in a while produces a nutter! No doubt Chubut does as well.
Feb 15th, 2016 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0But FACTS are : most people in Stanley go out and leave their doors unlocked.
Most leave their vehicles unlocked - and when they go out shopping the keys are usually in the ignition in the shop carpark.
No floor to ceiling bullet proof glass in our bank, let alone an armed guard in there like in Argentina!
Streets safe at night.
That is what I call crime free or virtually so.
Think - last I heard it was one unhappy lad, deemed unfit for military service, who broke into the armoury. Hardly a cunning plot to overthrow the legitimate government of the Falklands.
Feb 15th, 2016 - 02:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0You'll be having him up alongside the myths and legends of Rivero next - flying flags and singing the March Malvinas or somesuch.
You really should write fiction Think.
115
Feb 15th, 2016 - 03:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0Think DOES write fiction - and ironic comedy, too.
LOL !!!
Actually I should apologise to Think. Different incident.
Feb 15th, 2016 - 03:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0He's talking about the Islanders reaction to the Blair-Menem agreement of 1999. News of which was suppressed by the Blair government as it feared an adverse reaction from the British people and Parliament.
The Islanders did not welcome the deal that allowed Argentines to visit. Their views were ignored. MLA's feared for their own safety for agreeing to it. Weapons and ammunition were indeed stolen - not that there was much of a coherent plan to overthrow the FIG.
The 2 lads were jailed by the way Think.
And I should thank you for the reminder. I have not dealt with the depth of Islander feeling particularly well - something that I shall rectify in the next edition of my Timeline. Nor the degree of suppression by the Blair Government - not that I was ever a fan of that double-dyed barsteward.
And I do believe that you have provided me with something rather more important Think. An answer to another question that has been nagging at me for about 3 years now. Now I know why and when, even where (I'd known the who and the what already).
Thank you Think. :-)
@63 St. John
Feb 15th, 2016 - 06:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0I accept, with virtually no reservations, your testimonies about internecine troubles during the first half century of Argentine history, and the occurrence of periods of civil war. That is perfectly known to us, and the worst of such periods has even received a baptismal name: “la anarquía del año 20” -the anarchy of the twentieth year- (1820). But I think that you miss COMPLETELY the point on why I called “childish” the British claim that no OFFICIAL Argentine nation existed at the time. ( Certainly, no intentional tit-for-tat in relation with Mr. Summers speech). I hope your own words will help me:
”two states (la Confederación and Estado de Buenos Aires), two Capitals (Paraná and Buenos Ayres), two Constitutions, two senats, two Congresses, two de facto Presidents....
Does that look like one country to you?”
YES, Master St. John, YES, those apparent halves continued to look like that, because NONE OF THEM HAD SHOWED, IN THE LEAST, EVEN A HINT OF A SECESSIONIST WILL, as it was immediately demonstrated. They were going to fight, and they fought, the decisive battle (PAVON, 1861,) that definitively UNIFIED our country under the preeminence of Buenos Aires, instead of the Confederation. The existence of a country preexists, sometimes during centuries, to its independence from foreign powers, geographical final boundaries,and political unification. Look Italy. Look the German Empire.
Sorry Argfellow, but the warring factions of the various provinces could hardly be said to establish a unified state in international law. To be a nation there needs to be a central government with effective control over the whole territory. That did not exist in Argentina much before 1853 when you managed your first constitution, and - as you say - it was really the 1860's before Argentina could be said to exist.
Feb 15th, 2016 - 08:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0And the way they are going, they could soon be breaking up into smaller countries.
Feb 15th, 2016 - 10:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0#117 It was all one incident at the same time (1999). There was one lad involved who was arrested, charged, punished and is now living happily with his family. Not sure what it has to do with anything 17 years later, maybe the old wrinkly just desperate to divert attention again.
Feb 15th, 2016 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 120 Isolde
Feb 15th, 2016 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your golden dream, milady...?
they could soon be breaking up into smaller countries
Feb 15th, 2016 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sooner the better.
@122 argfellow,
Feb 15th, 2016 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0lndubitably.
Hopefully soon.
We should also ask Chile, Paraguay & Uruguay to join the cutting up party.
Remove the obscene threat for good.
Congratulations..! (On such distinguished partners. Really...tales para cuales.)
Feb 16th, 2016 - 12:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ 118 argfellow
Feb 16th, 2016 - 03:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0And it was entirely in keeping with Argentina's perpetual identity of anarchy and self-abuse that the only time prior to 1982 that Argentina actually had a presence in the Falkland Islands was in 1833 -- for three months -- when the tiny Argentine garrison mutinied and murdered its commanding officer. So even by Argentine standards that garrison didn't represent Argentina.
(129) Roger Lorton...
Feb 16th, 2016 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Amazing how lenient an Engrish copper can sound when dealing with the right kind of terrorists...
You say...:
“The Islanders did not welcome the deal that allowed Argentines to visit. Their views were ignored. MLA's feared for their own safety for agreeing to it. Weapons and ammunition were indeed stolen - not that there was much of a coherent plan to overthrow the FIG.”
How does the following sounds to you?...:
The 7/7 British muslims did not welcome the deal that allowed the U.K. to bomb. Their views were ignored. MP's feared for their own safety for agreeing to it. Bombs were indeed exploded - not that there was much of a coherent plan to overthrow HMG.
Anyhow..., I strongly encourage you to “Deal with the depth of that special type of terrorist inspired ”Islander Feeling”....
That would possibly make the next edition of your Timeline worth reading....
@127 Think
Feb 16th, 2016 - 04:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not quite sure what you point is, with your unrelated analogies and vague insinuations.
By comparison, the message from the Islanders and the Free World thinking public is, leave Argentine domestic politics at home in Argentina.
Kanuk turnip at (128)
Feb 16th, 2016 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vage insinuations?
Which “Free World” do you refer to, you supermarionation puppet?
Jack Bauer's?
BENITO MADISON: they killed thm all cause abuse..... stop readin kids book dummy.ISOLDE:HAAAAAAAAAAAA, KEEP DREAMING DUMB IGNORANT, THEY ARE OUR NRIGHBOUR FOR EVER, AMD WONT DO WHATEVER TO PLEASE A BUNCH OF SQUATTS DUMMY, WHORE. ROGER LORTONTO:EVOLVE, WAS THE WORD, OUR NATION WAS EVOLVING , AND NEVER SAW ANU SIMBOL OR SIGNIFICANCE OF SESSEION, NEVER EXITED OLD COW, NEVR.ISLANDER: BUT YOU DAMN NATION UK DOES, RIGHT?? NOT ONLY FULL OF PAEDOS BUT CROOKS TOOO....GORDO:TRAGA WASCA
Feb 16th, 2016 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@129/130
Feb 16th, 2016 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL, Argentine Troll Turnips perspective!
“chuckle chuckle”
@127 clutching-at-straws-Think,
Feb 16th, 2016 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You probably do make sense in your strange world, Think.
You really are flogging a dead horse & you know it.
You'll NEVER get these lslands, Think & you know that too.
For all your bonhomie Think, you really hate us.
Was it bred into you or did you learn it?
lts great crossing swords with you because you are so easily defeated.
Oops, your new bestest friend, Skip says that l shouldn't converse with you.
But, rebel that l am, l care not a jot for him!(or you, for that matter).
Cue slimy Thinks creepy comment reminiscent of Hissing Sid.
Feb 16th, 2016 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When you arrive down here Mr Think the Falklands will still be British and Hepatitis will still be rabbiting on about 25 years.
I can arrange some bludgeoning for you every day.
Well, how do you know!
Feb 16th, 2016 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In # 94 Shrinkbrain now claims that Iran (then Persia) and Egypt are Argentine provinces.
In a discussion about The United Kingdom, the British Falkland Islands and ICJ, Shrinkbrain wrote: “The “Marvelous Brutish Coups” I most remember from the fifties are the Anglo American Coup against Persia in 1953 and the Anglo French Invasion of Egypt in 1956”
@133 Lord Lucan,
Feb 17th, 2016 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Since a certain poster called “Skip” & l have been crossing swords, Think has sat on the sidelines, utterly enthralled & hoping for Skip's defection to the malvinista camp.
You may have noticed in all that time that the deranged malvinista called Hepatia has gone to earth. Not a peep from him/her/it.
Could it be that sr Think & Hepatia are……no surely not, l'm just very suspicious.
(Bet you Hepatia will now make an entrance)snigger
@ 118 argfellow,
Feb 17th, 2016 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0sorry I must have misunderstood the whole thing.
The two separate states, la Confederación de Argentina and Estado de Buenos Aires were really one single state, just like Italy and Peru is one state, because they have two capitals, two constitutions, two senats, two congresses and two presidents.
Now I understand: that is what makes one single state.
Norway and Spain is probably also one single state .. no presidents, but both have kings.
What you, for unknown reasons, call “la anarquía del año 20” lasted from 1814 until 1880, barely slowing down, but on a smaller scale, after 18 September 1861; twenty loooooooooooooooong years, which some of us calculate as 80-14 = 66 years.
Argentine sources show a total of 415 civil war battles in the years 1814-1880, 313 of them during the period 1821 through Batalla de Pavón, and 102 after that date and until 3 August 1880 (Combate de Ituzaingó).
Yes, you have, and I´m afraid that willingly.
Feb 18th, 2016 - 08:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The two separate states, la Confederación de Argentina and Estado de Buenos Aires were really one single state”. No, they were ONE SINGLE COUNTRY. And there is a pity that I can onley repeat my former opinion: “The existence of a country preexists, sometimes during centuries, to its independence from foreign powers, geographical final boundaries, and political unification. Look Italy. Look the German Empire.”
“ONE SINGLE COUNTRY”
Feb 18th, 2016 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Virreinato del Río de la Plata was one country since 1777.
Italy was the origin of the Roman Empire some 2 500 years ago, and stayed a country since, broke up a couple of times and was reunited.
Germany was an Empire in the middle ages, ever since Otto I was elected kaiser (emperor) in 951, it broke up and was reunited.
1810-1816 Buenos Aires, and much of the provinces were ruled by “La Junta Provisional Gubernativa de las Provincias del Rio de la Plata á nombre del Sr. Don Fernando VII” until 1816, when the Congress declared the independence of las 'Provincias Unidas del Río de la Plata'.
Was La Banda Oriental (now Uruguay) also part of Argentina? and Bolivia, Paraguay and parts of present day Brasil?
Argentina did not exist as a state before 1860 (arguable in 1859) and before 1816 (arguably 1810) it was a part of El Virreinato del Río de la Plata.
It is misguided orgullo nacional to think differently, same as Cristina Férnandez 2010 celebration of 2016.
@ 138 Voice Over
Feb 19th, 2016 - 02:31 am - Link - Report abuse 01) “The virreinato...etc. ” Far more than doubtful.
2) and 3) I should have written : “XIX Century Italy and XIX Century German Empire”.
5) Both La Banda Oriental and Argentina were part of Provincias Unidas del Río de la Plata. It´s hard to ascertain the same fact for Dr. Rodríguez de Francia´s Paraguay and for nowadays Bolivia.
6) Indeed, Argentina was before 1810 a part of the Virreinato as a circumscription of recent creation of the Spanish Empire.
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