MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Majority of Mercosur teen-agers are 'low performers' in maths, science and reading
Bad news for Mercosur aspirations. Low standards at schools in most of South America are a common problem according to the latest report by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, OECD, which has the region's students among the last fifteen in a list of 64 countries. Read full article
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Feb 12th, 2016 - 09:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0They missed out the fact that the adult population are even worse....
And, many are brainwashed with warped history and falsehoods.
Their abysmal academic performance is mirrored in their shameful political, cultural, and economic misbehaviour, which has scarcely advanced since the Dirt Age.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0It was obvious, you just have to follow Hepatia posts. He does not realise that every year one must take off a year, ie 25 years in 2014 is 24 years in 2015 and 23 years in 2016
Feb 12th, 2016 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Congrats Heppy
They are developing countries. It would be a shock if this applied to developed countries. This was the story of our countries once.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0Education is the way out of poverty. An educated population is necessary for a country to move to developed status. Instead of pointing and laughing we should be helping them.
Elaine...developing or not, they have had 200 years to get things right as they so often brag about in their bicentennials of “democracy”. In 2010 Argentina celebrated via cfk a non-ending year of 200 years of the anniversary of the revolution...and now they are going to celebrate again 2016. If they spent less time on revolutions and more in the classroom, maybe they would learn something. Of course you need to pay teachers a living salary...which they certainly don't in this country.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Most of the lower class workers only go through grade school. Most Argentinians don't finish high school until their 20s if they finish at all. Two of the people I employed were illiterate. I was shocked when I found out but then it was explained to me that it was vey common.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 12:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Developing or Devolving? Developing would mean every year they get a little better. I think most MS members are devolving. Each year getting worse and some of them much worse.
Technology is moving so fast now that they're going to be litterally left in the dark soon. I said a few years ago an avg Rg won't be able to communicate with the civilezed world in a decade. I stand by that prediction.
I can only comment on the situation in Uruguay of which I have quite a lot of experience.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 01:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like the UK the 'Education Minister' is never from the education sector and in consequence doesn't understand WTF the problems are, only what they 'think' the problems are. The present incumbent is a female doctor and the personal friend of the president and his wife. This wife caused Vasquez to ban abortions during his previous term (now permanently overturned) because she is rabidly a RCCunt, as is the new EdMin!
So each year in the last five years at about this time (being almost the new school year) MAJOR changes to how teachers must perform are 'sent down' from the Education Committee almost like the mythical ten commandments. It always takes at least two months for the glaring balls-ups to be rowed back and something that CAN work put in place. GOVE, anyone?
But the real problem is the low expectation by many parents who have themselves failed to work at school and accept nothing better for their own children.
Homework is done in class so the teacher can help those who want to get on to do so. This amazed me when I found out but it was stated the work would not be done in many cases if it went home.
The nock on effect of these lowering standards comes home if the student gets to university and then the shock of meeting the brick wall appears. The standard between schools and first year uni is massive and many students give up the battle.
I have helped three young people to tackle this and this year I have a young man who is studying industrial engineering and desperately needs help with the sciences. Quite what he will do when he graduates is a mystery because there is no real industrialisation in the country. I suppose he will have to go to another abroad.
But as I said to one of my teacher friends about the new EdMin, “cheer up, at least she must have read a book, once”.
It's not just teenagers.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 02:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Look at some of the Brasso operators and Georgesanus operators for evidence of this. With ignorant, pontificating 'teachers' like Axel, it's not hard to imagine why.
That Brazil is near the top of the list of underachievers in mathematics (or, at the bottom of the list in 'achievers') is no surprise. At the beginning of my professional career, I came across many candidates for trainee (some of them university graduates) who didn't know how to do the simplest of calculations in their head....
Feb 12th, 2016 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil's public educational system, with the exception of a few State and Federal Universities, produces a lot of knuckleheads who can't tell the difference between their elbows and their asses. All readers of MP have noticed the BRasshole's difficulty, when trying to talk about the economy, in providing numbers that actually correspond to fact. He lacks even the slightest notion of proportion and accepts whatever he hears as the Gospel truth because he is incapable of analysing it.
The fact is, that over the last 30 years, not only has the public educational system - with very few exceptions - become a disgrace, with regards to its infrastructure (inadequate school buildings and classrooms, lack of quality teachers, lack of interest from the majority of sudents, who'd prefer to not even be there), and the PT, while spending billions on propaganda, conveniently ignores this reality, as an educated person is less likely to fall for their bullsh*t.
@4 “ They are developing countries.”
Feb 12th, 2016 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But many less “ developed” countries have better educational performance.
Argentina needs to stop mis-portraying itself as a “developed” country. Reconsider the allocation of resources. Spend a little less on Futbol Para Todos and a little more on Estudios Paras Todos. For what they piss away on signs alleging “Las Malvinas son Argentinas” they could afford six private Parisian tutors for every snot-nosed dope-smoking pibe in the country.
Remember that up until the end of the CFK regime, people here were effectively kept from ordering books from outside the country. Medical, engineering, whatever..... if you tried to order a foreign book it was sent to Aduanas at the airport and you had to go there personally with your DNI and plead your case and pay your big import fees, and maybe not even then.
Whether you read cristiano or not, you can figure this out:
Prohibido importar libros en Argentina
http://www.elmundo.es/america/2012/03/29/argentina/1333037173.html
Argentistan's educational shortcomings are less a problem of [not] being a “developed” nation and more a matter of deliberate political and cultural measures that stunt intellectual and academic development. The lack of ability to perform simple reasoning tasks as demonstrated by the argentos on these pages is convincing evidence of that arrested development.
“Argentina needs to stop mis-portraying itself as a “developed” country.” I agree with that.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Looking at the myriad of spelling and grammar mistakes in the posts on this thread there are a lot of people in glass houses throwing stones around here.
Of course the staff hired whilst on a five year holiday in a developing country included some illiterates. They would not be taking menial jobs for foreigners if they had the opportunity of an education.
Instead of gloating over the unfortunate education system and lack of opportunities for the people of developing countries, why not be grateful that by accident you were born into an advanced society. It was only by chance.
@ 11 ElaineB
Feb 12th, 2016 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0At the risk of yet another one of your diatribes I will comment thus:
You still have to WORK at it, even in advanced societies, they don't GIVE you degrees just for turning up.
And THAT is the major problem in Uruguay and why a quarter (in some schools) of final year students apply to leave when they are 15 YO and why the schools never turn them down, they want rid of the numbnuts so they can concentrate on the better ones.
As others have already said: two hundred years and they STILL can't get the basics right?
Progressives love to lecture on things they know very little about.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They also seem to think the answer to failed gov't policies is more gov't.
Spelling and grammar....bahahahha
Nothing worse than grammar police.
loser
They've only been devolving since Peronism took root...
@11 “ ....why not be grateful that by accident you were born....”
Feb 12th, 2016 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, the “ by accident” part is how we get more Argentines. And even then, the participants likely didn't really know one another.
Like all good Progressives Elaine wants me to feel guilty about being born.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Like I owe something to lazy stupid leeches.
She as dumb as they come.
And envious of everyone.
pay her no mind
She's a dying breed
At least in the USA.
@12 Yes, of course you have to work for a degree, a masters etc. I should know. But I think even you will agree there are degrees and degrees.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't disagree that there should be compulsory education to 18 in these countries. I have said so countless times on threads about Chile. And the emphasis should be on improving the standard. But these are developing countries and with limited resources. Limited teachers. Limited finances. Why not volunteer your time and help the country you are living in to improve a little.
Don't go down the route of 'they have had 200 years' etc. Look at the history of education in England and you will see it took us a lot longer to get it right. Some would argue it is not right even now.
@13 Illiterate and you have had all the best opportunities. Now that really is shameful. TTT makes you look dumb.
@14 It just went 'whoosh' right over your head, didn't it?
16. Illiterate? Are you sure?
Feb 12th, 2016 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Masters of Women's Studies I bet.
Spelling/Grammar
The last cry of someone who can't argue...
Stupid worthless Prog
what about the children...whaaa whaaa whaaaa
@ 16 ElaineB
Feb 12th, 2016 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Why not volunteer your time and help the country you are living in to improve a little.”
From 7 above:
“I have helped three young people to tackle this and this year I have a young man who is studying industrial engineering and desperately needs help with the sciences. Quite what he will do when he graduates is a mystery because there is no real industrialisation in the country. ”
My problem, despite having enough Spanish to take the 115 driving test questions (30 selected by computer, 5 fails allowed) is the obvious one: Spanish and science seem to be mutually exclusive and the young people I have helped so far (and enjoyed every minute) had very good English.
The latest one will likely be with me for 3 years as long as he can keep up with the syllabus. So four in five years so far.
(4), (11), (16) ElaineB...
Feb 12th, 2016 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is no secret that you disgust me when you spin false stories about your panicking friends in Argentina waiting for the Zombie Campora Apocalypse, Cristina's Louboutin shoes, Nestor's wife bashings etc etc etc...
But today yo are just spot on...
Keep the good work lass...
El Think...
@19 Think, you just disgust me.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@18 Great. I think if we can make the effort to help just one or two people in developing countries it makes a huge difference.
@17 You are as stupid as pig's dribble. You prove it here every day.
:-)))
Feb 12th, 2016 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny how Lanie expects others to help the disadvantaged but she won't even give the peaceful muslims she loves so much a little ankle.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Stupid prog
Where da gubmit, where da gubmit...
The big problem in Argentina is that about half the population do not care about educating themselves, they prefer to rob and deal drugs, and they cannot be convinced to study or get a job. No matter how good the education is, these people cannot be helped, and there is just no good way to deal with them.
Feb 12th, 2016 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Kirchners banned repeating grades for children that failed to avoid children dropping school, which makes the numbers look good but does not fix the problem. They also forced Paka Paka propaganda into schools, even private schools that didn't want anything to do with K propaganda. And teachers are still as incompetent, ignorant and lazy as ever.
However, no matter how good our education is, you can't fix stupid.
'low performers' in maths, science and reading,
Feb 12th, 2016 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they must be more intelligent and able than some ?
Anyone , somewhere ? surely.
@23 Magnus
Feb 13th, 2016 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Many kids, in their early teens, and living in the 'favelas', are usually co-opted by the local drug gangs and drop out of school. They prefer a life of crime, from which they pick-up 4 to 5 times the salary of their parents, on the minimum wage. These kids however do not influence the stats of maths underachievers, because most of them, besides not going to school, by age 20 are dead or in prison.
The problem is that those that do “frequent” a (public) school of some sort, are unmotivated and have no ambition to get ahead in life. The reports one sees on TV, covering the country's public educational system, just confirms this. Very few break loose from this rut and go on to a higher education and a better life.
@16 “But these are developing countries and with limited resources. Limited teachers. Limited finances.”
Feb 13th, 2016 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rubbish. Have you ever been to Argentistan? Not the wineries and tourist dives, but the real Argentistan? Or many an argento school or two? Met the argento chorros who make up the mass of the unwashed?
The UN and OCDE piss all over themselves in saying that Argentistan spends some 6.3 percent of PBI on education. Enormously greater in real dollars and percentages than many other countries, including underdeveloped Chile. And yet Chilean schools, as bad and underfunded and poorly staffed as they are, consistently outperform argento schools in producing students whose test scores are significantly better on average. Likewise those underfunded and underperforming chilean schools manage to graduate a much higher percentage of children from secondary education than do their over-funded neighbours.
Here in pcia Sta Cruz I have had the opportunity to visit a number of rural schools. And I mean rural. Some on estancias dating to the 1890s. No running water or electricity and access via only dirt road. But the provincial and national funding have put in wind turbines for powering the little schools, and decent water, and in-residence teachers. And while those schools aren't producing many Einsteins, a lot of those pibes are doing surprisingly well, likely a lot better than their urban counterparts. Those cabros seem to understand that if they don't want to spend their lives sniffing sheep dag that they just might think about doing well in what school they do have. Now contrast their attitudes with those of the accidents produced by the great unwashed in the larger cities here, who have become accustomed to free this and free that and subsidies upon subsidies by the likes of Mummy Kirchner. Hint - those subsidies and the prevailing ni-ni don't have to study and don't have to work attitude keep half of them from finishing secondary school.
Progressives want you to believe that progress is measured on how much money is spent by the Gov't.
Feb 13th, 2016 - 05:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They care little about reality.
The USA spends 1 Trillion a year “fighting” poverty with no tangible results
Let them starve then they'll work.
Or not
It doesn't really matter
@26 Yes, I have visited schools in Argentina. If you had been around longer you would know that and have seen my comments on the terrible state they are in. Clearly the money allocated to education doesn't get to the schools. I am not going to repeat it all here just because you are late to class.
Feb 13th, 2016 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@27 Drooling village idiot. You are making a show of yourself again.
@26 One of the few good things the Kirchner did was to set a 6% budget for education. When they passed the law that set that budget I thought they would break that law just like they break every law, but they didn't.
Feb 13th, 2016 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The problem is, that most of the money is spent on the ridiculous wages public teachers demand and there is little money for anything else. And public teachers in Argentina are a joke.
Funding is important, but spending it effectively is just as important.
28. Still smarter than you.
Feb 13th, 2016 - 07:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're so envious of me it hurts....
@29
Feb 13th, 2016 - 08:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And public teachers in Argentina are a joke”
Like Axel Arrgh.
One of the areas where I think argento education monies are misplaced..... well, there are lots of areas where those funds are misplaced and misused and just gone missing.... but there is this area of “free university education for anybody.” And that includes foreigners. What good does it do for Argentistan to give a “free” (limited public monies) university education to all comers from all over Letrine America who are not going to be staying and contributing to the argento economy? I can see a few becas for a few foreign students, but wide-open university enrollment for all foreigners?
Feb 13th, 2016 - 09:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Would it not make sense to instead spend those monies on importing some decent teachers from the civilised nations to bring some performance and success to argento schools? Oh, wait, there is this problem of the syndicates, unions, and associations of argento school workers here.... about 30 of those organisations..... who might not look favourably upon the possibility of a decent instructor making somebody look bad.
@32
Feb 13th, 2016 - 11:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I weep for Axel Aarrgh's students and the young minds he is shaping...
Money doesn't solve all problems. You have to allow advancement. An education means nothing unless you can provide graduates with opportunities to utilise. “The USA spends 1 Trillion a year “fighting” poverty with no tangible results” sums it up perfectly. Poverty is not a trap of low income, it is a trap of lacking advancement and opportunity.
Feb 14th, 2016 - 04:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0@34 “Poverty is not a trap of low income, it is a trap of lacking advancement and opportunity.”
Feb 14th, 2016 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0And sometimes it's a matter of just not wanting to do anything any better. The world is full of don't-care underperformers and those for whom the dole is quite enough.
I know teachers here who have quit...just given up because they can't teach anything to students who do whatever they please whenever. And teachers cannot under any circumstances tell the students to sit down, shut up or do you homework. The teachers are expected by parents to look after their kids during the day...and not teach them. The law allows them to move through the system without even knowing how to write their names.
Feb 14th, 2016 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@36 It is appalling, and I think the very plan of the K's. Despite spending money to buy teachers votes, they didn't want the students educated. An intelligent voting public would ask questions and challenge the ridiculous claims and statements of the government.
Feb 14th, 2016 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@35 True. But some of that apathy comes from the pointlessness of trying to better yourself with a government that robs the middle-classes and encourages the layabouts by paying them in false jobs.
“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
Feb 14th, 2016 - 01:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0― Benjamin Franklin
Hunger is a great motivator.
To add insult to injury, truck drivers here make much much more than teachers. Truck drivers....think about it. Uneducated truck drivers...
Feb 15th, 2016 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0@37 “ True. But some of that apathy comes from the pointlessness of trying to better yourself with a government that robs the middle-classes and encourages the layabouts by paying them in false jobs.”
Feb 15th, 2016 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0--
Another rather common excuse. One need only look at the immigration numbers and the nature of those coming to Argentina and finding work. Work that pays decently but calls for an education. But there is another rather interesting side to this: educated Argentines who emigrate to nearby countries and find good work, because in many areas of other Letrine American nations, their schools are even more deficient than those of Argentina. In the hotel industry in Chile, for example, there is a demand for professional staff who speak decent English and know the nature of modern hotelería. It seems as though the Chilean system is deficient in teaching the range of associated skills and at least some alta gama hotels in Chile are actively recruiting Argentines .
I'd say the failure of argento adolescents to finish secondary school is more a matter of counterproductive attitudes than a lack of opportunity. Add to this the free university education in Argentina that is largely respected in much of the world, and there is really little educational institution fault for the ni-nis and their lack of initiative and motivation.
REF: “low performers”: Infected by Zica?
Feb 16th, 2016 - 04:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@41 LoBoMAU
Feb 16th, 2016 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0would explain Dilma's performance...
“the free university education in Argentina that is largely respected in much of the world”
Feb 18th, 2016 - 08:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Huh?
Where that claim come from?
@43 Argentina.
Feb 18th, 2016 - 10:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Among others: Higher Education in Latin America: The International Dimension, Hans de Wit/World Bank.
Feb 18th, 2016 - 12:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But the point came out of some recent discussion on US material specific to internationally accredited medical schools, and the comparatively strict standards observed by states such as California, though of course this cannot be applied to all fields of study. The California division of licensing showed international universities/academies with acceptable accreditation for the purposes of education (though these are not for directly transferable licences - a licence to practise being subject to other qualification): 16 Argentine medical schools, 5 for Chile, 10 for Australia, 2 for NZ, 5 for Scotland, 44 for Brazil, 24 for Spain, 3 for Denmark, and so on. Similar accreditation and representation of Argentine universities was observed for education for other professions.
YMMV
All my math and science teachers in high school during the 90s were either old seniors months ago of retirement, who did not give a sh*t about us, or middle aged teachers who made pennies and had miserable lives, both personal and professional.
Feb 18th, 2016 - 02:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don´t want to say “it´s theur fault”, kids nowadays were taught they don´t have to study because they will pass anyway, and academic level moved all the way down, but sometimes a little motivation would help.
Kids ignore that those who study engineering have jobs offers from all over the world, while those studying “arts, philosophy, political sciences, economy” end up in most cases ... as teachers.
I see lack of interest from all sides here.
This isn't an investment problem. It's a cultural one.
Feb 19th, 2016 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have said this before, Argentines don't give a sh!t about educating themselves. If you have the will, discipline, and tenacity, you don't even need to go to school to learn math up to diferencial applications, learn language up to a native vocabulary of 55 thousands words, learn a programming language, learn 7 foreign languages, learn about the history of two dozen nations, about cosmology, about biology and the tree of life... You can learn all that on your own, with determination. In fact today you don't even need books.
Argentine family setup simply is inferior to that of Asian societies ,which should be the model to follow when it comes to their placement of education in the family structure.
You can invest billions in education and pay teachers 25K Pesos a month, they are still the same shitty teachers, but most importantly... no matter how good the teacher is if the home structure isn't behind it, the kid will grow up a moron. And they deserve it.
I am very heartless when it comes to this matter. Asian nations with far fewer resources on education pull off better results because at the end of the day, the CARE.
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