MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
'A change in policy towards Malvinas', according to La Nacion
Buenos Aires daily La Nacion dedicated its main Friday editorial to the Falklands/Malvinas dispute, (A change in the policy towards Malvinas), underlining the new Argentine government's position promoting bilateral relations on all issues with the UK, but never forgetting the 'deep difference' over the Islands. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWho on earth wrote all this total tripe!!
Feb 20th, 2016 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 01.The Permanent airport pictured was built with BRITISH Aid. Arg built previously a small temporary metal plate strip nearby. It eventually blew to bits.
2 Arg and UK appear (good idea) to have agreed to try and normalise relations with the FI question put aside as a separate issue. Thus the recent visit to FI of Minister Faloon is actually 100% IRELEVANT to UK-Arg relations.
3 Collapse of Oil prices have NOT ended hydrocarbons development off the Islands. likely to slow it down a few years obviously - that is all. Why are Premier/RKH still spending £100,000s a year on the planning and contract projections for SeaLion etc!
Why are they and Noble merely planning to negotiate a deferral time with FIG over exploration phase on current licences.NOT cancelling them!
4 NOTHING outstanding at the UN at all - other than Argentina,s record of REFUSAL to comply with an INTERNATIONAL LEGAL BINDING Security Council Resolution -502- in April 1092!
5 Transit Controls pre 1982 DID exist - we had to apply for and carry with us aspecial stupid little piece of paper called a “White Card” - we could NOT transit Argentina normally like anyone else!
Neither LeaseBack nor Condominium were ever agreed let alone started to be implemented pre 1982 - both were rejected!
Cannot Arg ever get its head around the simple fact - it DESTROYED for ever its COLONIAL aims and ambitions by its military invasion of a small peacefull community in 1982. Just try and get over your Imperial Colonial Ambitions Argentina.
Guess this article is just a classis example of the warped Fantasy World so many still live in in Argentina?
When the UK gets over it's colonial ambitions the UK can have morality on this issue. Well actually, it will never have morality on the issue of colonialism. It would be like Germany have ever again moral grounds on anti-semitism.
Feb 20th, 2016 - 09:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Some things just can't be shaken off no matter how long it's been or how different the behavior is now. Which the UK has not even changed their behavior, they still want to colonize Antarctica.
And since the UK and Brits love to claim Antarctica is theirs, then they are fully responsible for the genocide of 150 thousand penguins. They had 6 years to do something about it, in their “territory”, and did nothing. The UK should be held accountable for their latest crime against other creatures of nature, the latest in a very very long list of crimes in the last 300 years.
@2
Feb 20th, 2016 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0Still haven't figured out that Argentina is a colonial settler state that exterminated the vast majority of its original inhabitants?
Did you see the reports of all those Brit colonizers down there in Antarctica taking selfies with dead penguins they'd killed for the purpose?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-35606354
Didn't you always bewail my supposed deflection of the topic raised?
Feb 20th, 2016 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0What did you just perform yourself in your response above?
It's that time of the day again:
Anglos will be Anglos.
@1. All excellent points. Perhaps some clarification?
Feb 20th, 2016 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 01. Wasn't the temporary airstrip constructed by the argie air force? Planning?
Stick with it. Have Islanders considered the following courses of action:
A1. Ask the Decolonisation Committee to state exactly what would satisfy it.
B1. Determine precisely what is required for the Falklands to be legally ASSOCIATED with the United Kingdom. Association is a valid method of decolonisation.
C1. Independence. But with appropriate treaties with the UK.
2. Can we ask when argieland will get over its colonial ambitions? As in Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego?
Therefore, the UK is currently under attack by argieland and Chile. War with argieland since 1943. And with Chile since 1940. How come both these claims during WW2, when Britain had other matters on its mind. Perhaps we should have shipped some Lancasters down there and bombed the hell out of both.
What are you talking about? The giant iceberg the size of Rome? Well, we can drill a deep hole in the berg and then drop in a remote detonated nuclear device.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3451613/150-000-dead-penguins-simply-walked-experts-say.html
“Genocide” doesn't apply to animals!
@2
Feb 20th, 2016 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Deflection? Did you not mention “colonial ambitions” in your post and “dead penguins?”
@1 lslander1,
Feb 20th, 2016 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0Excellent post.
The RGs just cannot stop lying.
lt must be in their genes.
@1
Feb 20th, 2016 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It would be nice if your government sent a reply to this article stating what you have- otherwise we have the spectre of Argentina lying and getting away with it. Just because diplomatic relations are better between the UK and Argentina, this does not justify the tolerance of untruths.
Well said Islander-Johnsons didn't sound like an Argentine airport contractor to me -unless I have that wrong.
Also there was a complaint from Lord Shackleton (Frank's Report) that the runway should have been lengthened to accomodate longer ranged aircraft (rejected of course by the Argentines best mates, the Foreigner's Office).
So it wasn't the Argentines who built Stanley Airport otherwise Lord Shackleton would have asked the Argentines to lengthen the runway.
I heard from Islanders that the Argentines flew/shipped in bad fruit to the Islands-is that true?
I heard that because of the white card the Islanders were treated as sub humans by the Argentines but maybe that has been exaggerated.
@2
“Some things just can't be shaken off no matter how long it's been or how different the behavior is now”
That applies as much to Argentina as much as it does to the UK.
Genocide of indigenous people in Patagonia ring a bell?
Wiping out 30,000 of your own people (that was in the latter part of the 20th century) ring a bell?
Whilst Britain ditched colonialism over 50 years ago, Argentina under CFK were still preaching it.
Why does Argentina wish to emulate the worst excesses of the British Empire in the past, if it claims to despise that former empire?
Your problem is that you can only delve deep in the past to criticise the UK, we can make criticisms at your country that apply to more recent times-so what's your countries excuse for being colonialist now, in 2016?
1
Feb 20th, 2016 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Huh...Was this article released in the Daily Mail...Penguin News...?
Do you think it was for you...?
La Nacion...Noticias de Argentina...
Whose support do you think the present Govt needs ,to normalise relations with the UK...
Do you really think you have anything to offer Argentina at the moment...?
Now read the article again as though you were not the intended recipient...
In particular...
“Finally, the proposition is evidence that without losing sight of Argentina's objectives, you can take advantage of the enormous potential that can exist in relations with all countries, including Great Britain.”
A Government exists on the support of their own electorate...
A Spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
The medicine go down-wown
The medicine go down
Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down
In a most delightful way...
8 Pete Bog./Correct current Stanley Airport and Runway built by Johnson Construction Ltd mid 1970s. Paif for by UK.
Feb 20th, 2016 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Arg AirForce engineers in early 1970s built HookersPoint temporary strip of aluminium plating(ex USA), FIG built the small terminal shed used there.
Strip was supposed to be dismantled after main airport built and taken down to make an airstrip at one of the Arg Antarctic bases - but they never did - eventually wind got underneath it and nature dismantled it!
Yes the produce that came in was often crap - much lower quality than we used to get by sea from Montevideo and now do so again.
Today several cruise ships purchase Carrots here- grown in Argentina,export quality exported to Uruguay - from there sold export to the Falklands - cruise ships say theses Arg origen carrots are CHEAPER and BETTER than the Arg carrots on offer in Ushuaia!
#8 The Falkland Islands Government issued a statement recently about the “new” Argentine policies - it was here on Merco.
Feb 20th, 2016 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@1o Thanks for that-what I suspected but correct for it to be confirmed by someone in the know.
Feb 20th, 2016 - 02:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@11
Poor FIG, I have beat them with the wrong stick-you are right. However, I also think that correcting the myth that life was perfect under the communications agreement should be corrected, by a letter to any Argentine publication that implies that the Islander's turned down a golden opportunity, when life seems to be better for the Islanders since 1982.
Argentines might reject it, but not all.
I get the impression that according to Malvanistan Argentines, they seem to think you are uneducated hill billies who's lives would be better by visiting 'modern' Argentina, attending their hospitals, universities etc etc.
To be fair FIG have explained the standard of living in the Islands and they should continue to do this to quash this, yet another myth.
@8
Feb 20th, 2016 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Delve in the deep past? For real? Apparently you live under a fatberg in London.
Which of these two countries MOST recently engaged another nation and people in an unprovoked, OFFENSIVE, unauthorized, war of aggression: Argentina or Britain?
@10
The “carrots” you talk about are for export all right, but they are still industrially produced. I can get farm-fresh carrots that are not-industrially produced, sure a bit more expensive, but far better than what the cruise ships get. While not poisonous, they are still industrial farming.
@6
The UK has not and will never have any moral authority to lecture or issue forth jobations about colonialism to anyone. Just your sad reality that will FOREVER be hauled from your necks. Admit your darn sordid past for once darn it.
@5
The British were totally USELESS in Patagonia, didn't know how to develop it or settle it. That's why you don't have it now nor will you ever have it again.
La Nacion not thinking straight. Theres no negotiating to do with the settlers. They rejoice in their oppositional defiant disorder as an adolescent rejoices in ridiculous hairstyles and cant be moved militarily.
Feb 20th, 2016 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Strengthen mercosur relations, agree to disagree with G.B. then quarantine the issue. Close. The. Door.
A collapsed oil price and advancing energy technology together with smart well timed closing of ports to any infected vessel, and an end to transitting flights will suffice for the next few decades.
The hamlet is already withering, let it die on the vine by itself.
@9 voice of walt disney,
Feb 20th, 2016 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0so it's ok to print heinous lies and incite resentment and anger towards your peaceful neighbours, as long as it is only to manipulate your domestic audience????
“I love to laugh... ”
@13. Neither. Not thsat argieland didn't try.
Feb 20th, 2016 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The UK has EVERY right. Because it's the best nation on the planet. When did Britain take any interest in Patagonia? Except for trying to stop Chile exterminating argieland. Shouldn't you be grateful? Get down on your belly and lick British soles. Where they've had to stand in argie shit.
Dear argentine government and its supporters,
Feb 20th, 2016 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0SODDY OFFY.
Can you genocide penguins?
Feb 20th, 2016 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The word genocide is the combination of the Greek prefix geno- (meaning tribe or race) and caedere (the Latin word for to kill).
So unless penguins are sentient and really short humans..... with no hands..... and a beak......
Argentinean education is truly fascinating!
@7
Feb 21st, 2016 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0“It must be in their genes ” I wish they would keep it in their genes ( jeans ) and stop procreating more of the lying great unwashed.
Ultimately it really serves no purpose to engage with the UK. We do not need them for anything and so allowing them access to our market or political process so they can later inevitably extort us or blackmail us seems daft.
Feb 21st, 2016 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nostril, shut up! We already have access to your market and you have access to ours - Malbec, blueberries etc etc. We send you 4x4s , diggers, tractors etc. You are so ignorant and deluded. Why are you here? What are you for? BRICS is in big trouble apart from India who are very British in their outlook. We look foward to Argieland rejoining the first world, but, you will have to mend your ways....
Feb 21st, 2016 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ultimately it really serves no purpose to engage with the UK
Feb 21st, 2016 - 08:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0tell that to macri,
you take out aid every year, and still trade with us,
what you would like, and what your government needs, are two very different things.
still,
look on the bright side, a vacancy will soon arise in Europe,
hint hint.
Actually why it is that YOU trade with us? We are the aggressors... so it is up to the aggressee to respond.
Feb 22nd, 2016 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0End all trade, end all aid (all 90 million US dollars of it). I'm sure not having that aid will bring us to our knees.
Did you know that 1.5 million dollars in aid by Argentina go to Britain each year? Some peacekeeping mission in Cyprus, we pay for supplies that support our troops as well as feeds other contingents in the area, via the UN. Stop taking our aid darn it.
As for the vacancy, surely the EU will leave that one for the future newest member of the EU, the Parlamentary Republic of Scotland and the Shetland Islands.
Actually Kingdom of Scotland.
Feb 22nd, 2016 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is a dispute settled in 1850, assuming that Argentina had any right prior to that. What we saw back in 1982 was an illegal attempt to take foreign land based on an obscure, highly doubtful `right´ which was used by the military junta.
Feb 22nd, 2016 - 12:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not to mention that the junta´s original plan was NOT recovering the islands, but to land - raise the flag - back off - push for negotiations. But the lack of professionalism, short-sight and stupidity of the Junta, fueled by thousands of dumb folks cheering them up, made them lost their original plan.
Those islands are NOT Argentinian.
I am personally sick and tired of this topic. Enough.
Time to grow up.
There you are tobi.....did you piss yourself? I am waiting for you email. What proof do you want....email it to me. I'm really starting to thinking that your thongs are too tight.
Feb 22nd, 2016 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did you know that 1.5 million dollars in aid by Argentina go to Britain each year
Feb 22nd, 2016 - 07:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you saying that Argentina gives aid to the UK,
are you on laughing gas or what.
Argentina gave plenty of aid to the UK during its darkest hour.
Feb 22nd, 2016 - 09:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So chickity check yourself lest the worst happen old boy.
@28 Vestige,
Feb 22nd, 2016 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anything that we got from you would have been paid for.
Are you trying to raise the prices now that the goods have been consumed?
Thats called extortion.
ls that normal in Argentina?
With all that southern ltalian blood that you have, l guess it is.
So keep whining, but you still will not get your paws on the Falklands.
@23
Feb 22nd, 2016 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the Parlamentary Republic of Scotland and the Shetland Islands.”
You'll find that the Shetland Islands don't want to leave the UK, if even Scotland wanted to (given that Scotland actually voted to stay in the UK).
Sturgeon has not sussed yet that England is Scotland's biggest trade partner
“Argentina gave plenty of aid to the UK during its darkest hour.”
Yet welcomed in escaping Nazis after WW2, Mengele and Eichman to name just two.
Credit where it's due though, Nazi Kurt Tank's Pulqui 2 was probably more advanced than the Tucanos now patrolling your borders.
28 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 12:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina gave plenty of aid to the UK during its darkest hour.” It wasn't aid in the sense that the UK gives at present to Argentina gratis. Argentina made plenty out of their so called aid
”After several months of negotiation Eady reached an agreement with the Argentine government for the sale of British owned railways. For the agreed cost of just over ₤150m effectively cancelled Britain's debt to Argentina.” p.139
Frozen Empires: A History of the Antarctic Sovereignty Dispute Between ...
By Adrian John Howkins
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KdZ6geu5TLEC&pg=PA139&dq=british+payment+argentine+debt+war+railways&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KqQlVeeGN6fImwXLyIGACg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=british%20payment%20argentine%20debt%20war%20railways&f=false
This is the gratitude to Argentina for it feeding of GB's starving.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0The truth is that both Argentina and GB are both guilty of putting buffoons in charge of the islands at different times.
There could be good relations between the tens of millions of citizens of the two countries were it not for certain past misguided real generals and certain present misguided armchair generals.
But who cares really. Stanley will die an (initially) slow natural death, thereafter the two countries can be 1970's logical about it again. All nutters out of the way.
Speaking of welcomes.
http://hebrewswakeup.com/images/files/nazi_Windsors.png
http://hebrewswakeup.com/images/files/nazi_Windsors.png
http://hebrewswakeup.com/images/files/nazi_Windsors.png
32 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 01:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0So I am correct it wasn't aid at all, it was a deal strictly for profit. What have your attachments to do with the price beef? Nothing at all, but they do reveal much more about your anglophobia. So at the end of the day your just another closet racist.
Vestige's new attempt at a meme is that the Falkland Islands will eventually depopulate.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 02:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0But even if no one lives there..... they'll still be British.
With no population the UN will be forced to delist them as being a NSGT.
In no way does this mean the islands will become Argentine. There are plenty of examples of uninhabited islands around the globe that are not near the country that owns them.
34 - Thats what the stats suggest Anglo. Theres no future in the worlds most isolated hamlet. Unless one of Argentina or the hamlet changes policy - which neither will.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 03:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0So expect eventual onset of exponential decline.
(but maybe Im wrong and it could swing the other way - an increase to the heady heights of 3500 squatters wow, livin la vida loca)
The islands were a zero sum game from the beginning for G.B.
(The imperial motivating principal of grab grab grab from back in a different era wasn't forward looking unsurprisingly)
And I would think once they depopulate, the isles will be confirmed as negative value to the GB govt. (for some time). Any current GB govt apology payoffs/“aid” will then end.
Had GB been located, say, 500km to the east then one can actually 'win'.
But as long as duel claims are maintained the most the squatters can hope for is underdevelopment and decline, and a wasted semi-life. 'A draw' is as good as it can get politically.
33 - 32 was response to 28. See also 164sqn raf. Argentina says 'you're welcome'. Had GB not messed around in Arg previously Im sure the food shipments could have potentially been gratis, seems GB shot itself in the foot, not for the first time. Im sure the hungry poverty stricken ww2 Brits enjoyed the Argy sausage very much in any case.
Unsure why the islands would be seen as negative value to the UK government.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0You seemed to have jumped to a conclusion based on no actual proof. I know you pick positions purely on the anti-British position. But am unsure where your proof of this comes from.
For instance the very existence of Bouvet Island, the South Georgia & South Sandwich Islands, Macquarie Island, Île de Clipperton and Heard Island & McDonald Islands disproves your theory.
There is no logic in the UK abandoning these islands anymore than France, Norway, Australia and the UK abandoning the uninhabited islands listed above.
Try again Vestige. You need a new meme.
# 34 , you clearly don't know the meaning of the expression zero sum game, it is something you cannot play on your own. I love that you can repeat all these sophisticated English expressions in completely the wrong context but wonder where you get them from. Is there some cliché handbook that is issued when Argentines learn English.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 06:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0The matter is settled. Argentina can be as nice as it likes, as long as it likes - and can then be nasty again, as will undoubtedly happen with the next Peronist Government.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0It makes no difference.
The matter is settled.
#35: The stats don't suggest that the Falklands will depopulate at all. The age profile is pretty similar to that of the UK or other developed economies. The Falklands has less people of university age as many are in the UK being educated. Most will return.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 08:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0This is merely a bizarre extrapolation by yourself and the Argentine authors of the report, who noted a 'constrictive trend' in a population despite the fact that it has increased by 40% in the last 30 years. Which of itself shows how you can achieve anything with statistics if you decide on your conclusion first, and then
twist whatever facts you can in order to support it.
Two other factors as to why the Argentine population is younger are the fact that its infant mortality rate is 2.5x that in the UK; and the hold of the RC Church , with its refusal to permit birth control, over much of the population.
Nor will there ever be 3,500 squatters there as the Islanders are unlikely to allow that to happen.
As to Argentina's contribution to the UK in WW2? Nothing to do with Argentine 'policy'.
- Britain bought food from many places in the war. It also bought all the materiel supplied by the USA. Finished repaying that a few years ago. There are always countries looking to make a profit.
- 164 Sqn was made up of volunteers. People who fought the Nazis out of principle, or many of Anglo-Argentine descent. Like those railway workers who left Argentina when the railways were sold.
No credit for Argentine Govt there, I'm afraid.
@35 Vestige,
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 09:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0lsn't it a bummer when us Brits know your Argentine history better than you Argentines?
You may be able to lie at the UN but your lies fall flat with us.
You just need to stop your continual lying.
Rico correctly pulled me up on the incorrect use of an economic term in one of my languages. However, to my defence the term functions well in informal speech, best I could think of at the time, doomed etc seemed a little too dramatic.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anglotina aka skip has missed the political cost* when it comes to the Malvinas, and indeed Georgia + ssi.
The rest of the responses are pedantic and filled with denial.
*as noted by GB govt itself in the 60's/70's.
41 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 03:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Anglotina aka skip has missed the political cost* when it comes to the Malvinas, and indeed Georgia + ssi.” Here's someone who is much more likely to be accurate, than you with your unfulfilled wishes
It costs Argentina more than the UK in their conflict according to Carlos Escudé. He warned: “If Argentina had power, I would not be doing these proposals,” but reasoned that “pursue policies of power without power is counterproductive” because “leads to losing more than you earn systematically”
“La reivindicación argentina de Malvinas solo sirve para comprar el voto de ciudadanos poco educados”
http://www.infobae.com/2014/11/10/1607855-la-reivindicacion-argentina-malvinas-solo-sirve-comprar-el-voto-ciudadanos-poco-educados
Terence, Skip, David Cameron, Think, Briton et al. Master puppeteer and employee of gchq operation mercopress.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I believe your link from the Argentine (and therefore flawless as all here will attest) Carlos makes some point that you'd love to present in isolation as indisputable fact. However it does refer to a past govts policies under the great Kristina (pbuh).
Alex Jones can give you a link from a professor that proves an alien conspiracy, so stop your denial, fly to roswell and get with the program for gods sake.
1960s/70s GB govt had the right idea. Arg and GB could be besties by now. Confuscious say slow and steady win the lace.
43 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 04:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“1960s/70s GB govt had the right idea” Indicates how desperately out to lunch you are. As the UK government was abdicating their legal obligation to the Islanders, as a result of ignorant bureaucrats who mistakenly thought that a political solution was the answer to a legal question. “The Court recalls that it has repeatedly stated that the fact that a question has political aspects does not suffice to deprive it of its character as a legal question” http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/141/16010.pdf
Oh I see it was just a case of mistaken ignorant bureaucrats. They made an error.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But thankfully thats not the case anymore. Isn't that convenient.
Now now,
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0its British,
and it always will be,
you argies have more chance of kidnapping obarmy and holding him hostage,
than you have of ever stealing the Falkland's,
you guys should worry abt stopping your own country from collapse.
@46 Briton,
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well said, that man.
Briton quoting Churchill on India.
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Or was it Hong Kong.
45 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 23rd, 2016 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whats inconvenient for you as any and all discussions between the UK and Argentina based on any UN Resolutions are at an end, as they are ultra vires(beyond the powers). As they conflict with the UN Charter and the following determination by the ultimate legal authority. As further finality the ICJ in Kosovo stated “The Court recalls that it has repeatedly stated that the fact that a question has political aspects does not suffice to deprive it of its character as a legal question“.
”Also in the decision of June 30, 1995, concerning the East Timor Case (Portugal v. Australia) the International Court reaffirmed that the principle of self-determination of peoples is recognized by the UN Charter and by its own jurisprudence as being “one of the essential principles of contemporary international law.” Self-Determination vs. Territorial Integrity by Ara Papian
“the Court … confirmed that the principle of self-determination was an obligation erga omnes” Akehurst's Modern Introduction to International Law By Peter Malanczuk.
Fascinating and highly relevant facts in your personal script Im sure.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0I prefer the one where the squatters are not 'a people'.
Although neither really matter. Ask a Chagosian, Iraqi, Syrian or Palestinian of the value of international paperwork.
50 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 24th, 2016 - 12:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Highly relevant facts” certainly for my part thats so far correct. As for “personal script” you're the only one of us that expressed such a thing. Otherwise, you would be able to refute my claim. Come on dig deep into your viveza criolla bag of tricks, as you can't rely on one iota of international law. While it isn't perfect, because of the failure of countries like Argentina to comply. That hasn't exactly
been a successful strategy for her has it? Nor for a number of regimes that have been embargoed out of existence.
Terence Briton Conqueror Skip sock puppeteer mediocre.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0Whats this silly little claim and why do exactly do I need to refute it.
Maybe I can refute it maybe I can't - how relevant is it ? and why should I care.
Lets start off by saying whatever banal pedantic isolated paragraph you have is correct.
How's GB doing on the international law front btw - with the Saudi weapon sales, illegal Iraqi war, and no doubt a list as long as your arm both known and unknown.
Cheers.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02634/blairgadaffi_2634882b.jpg
The UK will return the Malvinas within 25 years.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 02:45 am - Link - Report abuse 052 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 24th, 2016 - 03:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Whats this silly little claim and why do exactly do I need to refute” Just to refresh the issue for you again “as noted by GB govt itself in the 60's/70's.”
So when I prove just how stupid that statement is you're forced to concede the argument. Then attempt to use a logical fallacy of “moving the goalposts”. “How's GB doing on the international law front…”,
and reveal your racism yet again. So to recap, as per usual every time you open your stupid mouth I come and slap you down.
Lol Now I'm a racist because I point out GBs less than perfect record in matters of (non) compliance with international law.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 11:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0You however are not a racist when you do the exact same. Convenient.
I think we've been through this before, you find some abstract paragraph, interpret it in isolation and hold it up as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I'm left with few options to win this funny little game.
1 - take it as fact and ask you to point out how exactly its relevant.
2 - point out that the squatters aren't 'a people' in any case so it won't apply.
3 - remind you of the numerous other, perfectly legitimate, equally abstract laws such as the legality of shooting a Welshman after night within English cities.
4 - trace my way through the annals of international law via the internets and dispute your subsection with a counter subsection if its available and not behind a paywall.
I believe I shall choose option 2.
No no ... 3.
Yankee if you're watching please ensure you remember to wave your red flag while walking in front of your wife's car lest she cause an accident.
@50
Feb 24th, 2016 - 11:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ Ask a Chagosian, Iraqi, Syrian or Palestinian of the value of international paperwork.”
And indigenous Argentines (Amerindians ) forced off their land.
Hepatia
Feb 24th, 2016 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Vestige will return within 25 years.
its a game is it not,
chess or draughts perhaps,
Ludo or snakes and ladders perhaps,
or claims and false claims perhaps.
the Falkland's are British,,
you lost, what a nice game.........
55 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 24th, 2016 - 01:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Point out that the squatters aren't 'a people'”. If this where true you just have to indicate where in the UN Charter or an authorative ruling by the ICJ et al.
“Trace my way through the annals of international law” Where you won't find anything of a later date, or higher authority to refute my assertions, or conversely support your viveza criolla. So game set and match.
So true. I won't. Fortunately what you've quoted aside from being irrelevant will not apply in the context as the planters aren't a defined people any more than the good people of this delightful forum. You win an wonderfully imaginary yet tragically flawed game. Well played. Goode day.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 056 - like the Irish or the Kenyans ?
Speaking of international law ...I'm sure there was an abstract paragraph somewhere to stop the likes of this http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/29/kenya-mau-mau-abuse-case
59 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 24th, 2016 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As the planters aren't a defined people” Apparently they are according to the ICJ in Timor. So to refute their determination you would have to “goose-step” over the following criteria.
The Role of the International Court of Justice As the Principal Judicial Organ of the United Nations By Mohamed Sameh Am
“1.2 3. The practice of the ICJ: Confirmation of its interpretative power
Since 1948, the ICJ has been called upon several times to interpret the Charter. Through its jurisprudence, it seems clear that the Court did not hesitate to confirm its power in this regard either explicitly or implicitly.
Similarly, Judge de Visscher referred to the Charter of the United Nations as a treaty of a ”Constitutional Character“
Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties
SECTION 3. INTERPRETATION OF TREATIES
Article 31
General rule of interpretation
1.A treaty shall be interpreted in good faith in accordance with the ordinary meaning to be given to the terms of the treaty in their context and in the light of its object and purpose.
”The plain meaning rule, also known as the literal rule, is one of three rules of statutory construction traditionally applied by English courts.[1] The other two are the “mischief rule” and the “golden rule.”
The plain meaning rule dictates that statutes are to be interpreted using the ordinary meaning of the language of the statute. In other words, a statute is to be read word for word and is to be interpreted according to the ordinary meaning of the language,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_meaning_rule
If Argentina had any respect for democracy , freedom or the rule of law, they keep throwing up,
Feb 24th, 2016 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0they would take it to the ICJ.
@61 Briton,
Feb 24th, 2016 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They won't because they know that they would lose & Argentines cannot bear to lose.
ln their minds they have to win all the time.
lnstead of developing their(?) country, they'd rather steal someone else's then crow about it.
And they think that its OK to lie, if it saves face.
They'll always be a chickenshit nation with this mindset.
60 - UN link/paperwork defining the Britons presently colonizing the isles as a unique/individual people in law please.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 060 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 24th, 2016 - 09:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As the planters aren't a defined people” Your assertion therefore your burden of proof, viveza criolla has no weight in the real world.
#63: Racist: there are no “planters” or “squatters” in the Falklands. I am Gibraltarian and I hear the same vile term from Spaniard losers as well.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your own terminology determines you as a racist. Please desist
Forget my assertion Terence.
Feb 24th, 2016 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UN link/paperwork defining the Britons presently colonizing the isles as a unique/individual people in law please.
If you can.
66 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 24th, 2016 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0UN link/paperwork defining the Europeans presently colonizing SE S.America as a unique/individual people in law please. If you can.
“the Argentinian government and people...”
Feb 25th, 2016 - 01:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.un.org/sg/statements/index.asp?nid=6715
Your turn.
68 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 25th, 2016 - 02:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Your turn.” Simple, just a walk in the park. The Islanders reliance is entirely on the UN Charter and the ICJ decision of June 30, 1995, concerning the East Timor Case (Portugal v. Australia) the International Court reaffirmed that the principle of self-determination of peoples is recognized by the UN Charter and by its own jurisprudence was an obligation erga omnes. “Erga omnes is a Latin phrase which means ”towards all“ or ”towards everyone“. In legal terminology, erga omnes rights or obligations ARE OWED TOWARD ALL.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erga_omnes NOTE THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS, IN SPITE OF YOUR CLAIMS TO THED CONTRARY.
... aaaand he couldn't.
Feb 25th, 2016 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are no falklonians, kelpenites, kelpstralians or whatever.
Just a GB colony with some English, a smattering of Scots and some imported 'ethnics' as help.
A remnant of the find, plant, declare, imperial tactics.
No seperate ethnicity or nationality. Not a people.
Thus no mention from the UN.....strangely enough.
70 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 25th, 2016 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fortunately, I have the highest legal opinion and the official voice of the UN to rebut your moronic unqualified personal opines. So yet again your toothless viveza criolla's are demolished.
The ICJ on Timor, the final legal authority on the matter. “In the Court's view, Portugal's assertion that the right of peoples to self-determination, as it evolved from the Charter and from United Nations practice, has an erga omnes character, is irreproachable” Meaning “without fault and therefore impossible to criticize” dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/irreproachable Therefor, its beyond debate or further discussion.
Remaining non-self-governing territories must have full freedom of choice, Ban says http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=34740#.
@68 Vestige
Feb 25th, 2016 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0…with regard to the implementation of the declaration on granting of independence to the colonial countries and peoples relating to the Falkland Islands
UN2065 clearly states '....peoples relating to the Falkland Islands', there in B &W in your favorite resolution.
http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/218/28/IMG/NR021828.pdf?OpenElement
Argentina has no claim,
Feb 25th, 2016 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0never has done, never will do,
the only charter they know of by heart is the criminals charter,
take what you can , when you can, until someone stops you,
you tried , and we stopped you..
Hahaha east Timor Portugal deep de der. In my view.... This means that...etc etc
Feb 26th, 2016 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0There's no mention of falklanese, kelponians, stanlyites or any other makey uppey demonym being a people on the un website.
There just isn't.
74 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 26th, 2016 - 01:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0As I recall the UN site doesn't define anyone as being peoples so we can all go home. We can all revert to the tried and true of 'might is right. So call your buddies up and they can try their luck again. But since its you who is asserting the Islanders aren't people its you who bears the burden of proof to prove their not. Whereas conversely I have proved through the august dictate of the ICJ that irrefutably the “right of peoples to self-determination, as it evolved from the Charter and from United Nations practice” Seconded, by the head honcho of the UN. They definitely have no bias and are qualified to have formed the correct determination. But knock yourself out, write and tell them their all wrong. LMAO
UN site in the link I supplied above addresses the Argentinian people.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0Just as Im sure the same site refers to the Dutch, Chinese, Armenian etc people.
But you won't find anything similar for falkistani's, falkifarians, kelposians or whatever nonsense demonym is attempted to make the colonists into something they're not.
1 - “might is right” : Thats fine, you win the military power argument, but it doesn't give you any moral high ground - don't mix them up.
2 - I didn't suggest the individuals on the islands are not people, just that they are not 'a people'. Like the people of this forum aren't 'a people'. Which is why the UN doesn't refer to mercosians.
I bear no burden of proof. I point only to the fact that the UN does not recognize the individuals (UK citizens, Chilean citizens et al other nations) living on the isles as 'a people'.
On an entirely separate issue can you prove that the legal references you have put forward apply to the individuals on the isles. As far as I can tell your patchwork theory suggests that any diverse group can just declare themselves a nation and they then are by international law.
Might want to be careful with that theory lest you end up with a Bradfordistani referendum. Self determination and all.
76 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 26th, 2016 - 04:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0”UN does not recognize the individuals (UK citizens, Chilean citizens et al other nations) living on the isles as 'a people'“ Where is this link where the UN states it does not recognize such people? The only time this claim has been made has been by Argentina visa vi ”territorial integrity” which is a bogus claim, as they are barred under international law from applying the Charter prior to its enactment. Regardless, there is nothing that the UN could apply that is in conflict with the Charter or rulings from the ICJ as it is ultra vires(beyond their powers). Moreover, 18 May 2010 – The world’s 16 remaining territories that still do not govern themselves must have complete freedom in deciding their future status, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.“ So you better tell him he's wrong because Argentina says so.
”I bear no burden of proof.” You certainly do since you’re the one claiming the Islanders are not a people.
Deep thinking, Philosophy; Burden of proof
Burden of proof (or onus probandi in Latin) is the obligation on somebody presenting a new idea (a claim) to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). ... Burdens of proof are key to having logically valid statements: if claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.
Abuse
Burden of proof is often abused in rhetoric and arguments.
Shifting the burden
Fallacious shifting of the burden of proof occurs if someone makes a claim that needs justification, then demands that the opponent justify the opposite of the claim. The opponent has no such burden until evidence is presented for the claim.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
@74....There's no mention of falklanese, kelponians, stanlyites or any other makey uppey demonym being a people on the un website.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0There just isn't.
Except in UN2065 where it clearly states …'with regard to the implementation of the declaration on granting of independence to the colonial countries and peoples relating to the Falkland Islands'.
But Ignore that on Vestige, it doesn't align with your Falkland Islanders are not considered a people(s).
76 Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Feb 26th, 2016 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Might want to be careful with that theory lest you end up with a Bradfordistani referendum. Self determination and all.”
Would never happen because that would be a a bona fide cause for the Charter application of 'territorial integrity' as it would be a post enactment use of the law.
Oh poor Vestige... when the UN GA start using the word 'population' instead of the word 'people' in the official documents, relating to NSGT you argument becomes null and void.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0From the GA 2015 Document on the relevant work of the Decolonization Committee for 2016, note the lack of the word 'People' and the use of the word 'Population' in its place, ........... one less argument for the 'Falklanders are not a people according to the UN' so are not entitled to self determination. ...
....(c) To continue to examine the political, economic and social situation in the Non-Self-Governing Territories, and to recommend, as appropriate, to the General Assembly the most suitable steps to be taken to enable the populations of those Territories to exercise their right to self-determination, including independence, in
accordance with the relevant resolutions on decolonization, including resolutions on specific Territories; .
....http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp...
United Nations Official Document
UN.ORG
UN site. Search bar. Latest b/s demonym. Enter.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0.... error 404.
Vestige,
Feb 26th, 2016 - 02:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/AC.109/2016/L.1
If this link doesn't work it is the first document on the 2016 Session: Organisation at Work. on the C24 side tab under 'United Nation and Decolonisation'. Easy to find and blows your argument I am afraid, 'peoples' and 'population' are interchangeable it seems in the UN.
Error 404 - no kelpenese found on page.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No name no people.
A bit like democracy or freedom in Argentina hey? Totally invisible.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 06:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No true history. No claim.
l wouldn't worry too much about Vestige.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We're clearly dealing with an idiot.
@83... Oh I get it, using your logic, none of the NSGT's have a defined people as the document doesn't state and mention of any specific people(s) relating to any territories.
Feb 26th, 2016 - 10:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0See that you managed to dodge UN2065 though Vestige and what that clearly states, but as your are clearly an uneducated Malvanista, you find it easy to ignore facts when they go against your poorly through through argument.
The only reason you get an 'Error 404' is because you have an Argentine Government computer that doesn't allow true facts, only bull shit, lies and rhetoric are allowed.
Nice try, but sticking your head in the sand, isn't how you win arguments.
I agree.
Feb 27th, 2016 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Falkland's are still British,
Feb 27th, 2016 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0argies no nothing.
Because they've got nothing.
Feb 27th, 2016 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No jobs
No security
No Navy
No Aircraft
No future
No hope
No Falklands.
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