MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Gibraltar and Falkland Islands governments joint statement on Spain and Argentina comments
Gibraltar and Falkland Islands flatly deny any “colonial situations” as was referred to by the foreign ministers of Spain and Argentina, and regret profoundly that two large countries with democratic credentials “seek to gang up to bully two very small territories and in the process completely ignore the right of their people to choose what they want to be”. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rules“Mr Margallo and Ms Malcorra need to understand that both Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands are on the list of Non-Self-Governing Territories held by the United Nations. The mandate of the United Nations, as reflected in the Charter and in the Covenants, is that the only way in which we can be removed from that list is through the freely and democratically expressed wishes of the people of Gibraltar and of the Falkland Islands respectively. The wishes of the people must be paramount.”
Apr 05th, 2016 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly, and this is what the Governments of Spain and Argentina are afraid of, self determination. Because there is nothing they can say or do that would make the peoples of Gibraltar and the Falklands give away their freedom for slavery.
But Spain and Argentina will forever be disappointed countries because the UK will never abandon the people of Gibraltar and the Falklands.
The British government should withdraw from the C24 list
Apr 05th, 2016 - 07:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0and sod the UN.
Wait a cotton picking minute you Spanish hypocritical twits. How do you answer for your maintained colonial enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla?
Apr 05th, 2016 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Dear Susana, it seems, is in dire need of a long overdue history lesson!
A call was made for an end to the “two colonial situations
Apr 05th, 2016 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So will they take it to the ICJ
no they wont,
so both are two faced then,
both want what is not there's .
Pfft. English hipocrisy, meddling in other countries territories and affairs, and then using excuses to continue abusing their positions. UK and USA are know to scorn everything the UN says, and to even veto everything because they are “the permanent council”, wich actually means “the bullies with nuclear weapons” that give a damn about world democracy.
Apr 05th, 2016 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And now bugging with the ICJ, it´s know that the ICJ is partial organism, corrupt. Whenever the UN attempts to make a truly neutral court, the USA bullies retire all the money they can, and bully other countries to do so, to pressure the UN.
Typical anglosaxon hipocrisy.
Baloney! Bahahaha
Apr 05th, 2016 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Life is so unfair, isn't it LukeDig. LOL
Apr 05th, 2016 - 10:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the real world, it is Argentina that gives far too much credibility to the United Nations, which is little more than a political talking shop. The veto available to the permanent member of the Security Council can only be used within the Security Council, and not the General Assembly and, as regards the ICJ, Argentine judges have sat there too.
The real hypocrisy comes from Argentina which wishes to colonise a territory that it has never had any right to. Argentina's very existence is based on the colonization and subjugation of a foreign land. Hypocrisy indeed.
5 LukeDig
Apr 05th, 2016 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0some say, your name is on that rich list,
some say you are a government plant on here,
some say you try to wind the brits up,
some even say you have totally lost it.
“”Typical anglosaxon hipocrisy.“”
Apr 06th, 2016 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0said the Spanish coloniser of south america....
”Gibraltar and Falkland Islands flatly deny any “colonial situations”
Apr 06th, 2016 - 03:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0Keep Calm and Shut Up
Sincerely,
(Your) Queen Elizabeth II
To speak to a Falkland Islands Government representative in London, please call:
+44 (0)20 7222 2542
To speak to a Falkland Islands Government representative in South of France, please call:
+33 50975835
That´s the problem Roger, international law is of no value if it cannot be enforced. And enforcing is a task of the security council.
Apr 06th, 2016 - 03:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Thats why the security council gives a damn about human right violations, war crimes and ghettos at palestine.
What a load of stupid remarks from the malvinistas!
Apr 06th, 2016 - 05:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Fortunately, in this case , LukeDig, international law favours the Islanders' right to self-determination and the UK is ready, willing, and able to enforce it.
Apr 06th, 2016 - 05:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0@5 LukeDig - nene!
Apr 06th, 2016 - 07:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0“And now bugging with the ICJ, it´s know that the ICJ is partial organism, corrupt.” What abject uninformed nonsense! So why did Argentina attempt to use the ICJ to resolve the matter of its paper mill complaint against Uruguay?
And as far as the UN Security Council is concerned why did Argentina totally ignore its resolution for the immediate withdrawal of troops from the Falklands archipelago in 1982? This refusal, of course, led to the eventual Argentine surrender and the pathetic sight of its army's total and absolute “derrota” which, of course, is a motive for Argentina to celebrate......oops! I meant commemorate!
@5
Apr 06th, 2016 - 09:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ English hipocrisy, meddling in other countries territories and affairs”
This statement was nothing to do with the English, it was issued by the Governments of the Falklands Islands. and Gibraltar.
It is not hypocrisy either-the mandate of the C24 is to guide NSGYs towards independence , not to another colonial master.
As over the years the British government has devolved more powers of autonomy to the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar, the UK is moving in the right direction, though these two territories do not wish independence at this stage.
“UK and USA are know to scorn everything the UN says”
Argentina rejected Resolution 502 in 1982, which was issued by the UN and was a binding resolution, therefore Argentina too scorns the UN.
@11
“Thats why the security council gives a damn about human right violations”
Ignoring what the Falkland Islanders wish, and democratically vote for, is a human rights violation as the majority of Falkland Islanders were born on the Islands, not transplanted direct from the UK.
The statement made by the local British authorities of Gibraltar and Falkland Islands (Malvinas) of 5 May 2016 related to the meeting between FA Ministers of Spain and Argentina contains right and wrong points.
Apr 06th, 2016 - 09:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is right to stress the differences between Gibraltar and the Falklands/Malvinas.
The statement also rightly remembered that both remain Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGT), -I add- in spite of their allegations that they are self-governed.
On the contrary, they wrongly presented the way by which these territories can be removed from the list of NSGT: it can only be done by a decision of the UN General Assembly. This was the case for the other NSGTs that no longer appear in this list.
The statement also takes for granted something that no resolution of the UN, absolutely none, has established: that in the cases of these territories the right of peoples to self-determination applies to the current population of them.
The statement also remembers the self-organised referenda in both territories. If the statement were right in its assertion that NSGT can only be removed from the list “through the freely and democratically expressed wishes” of their populations, then both Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands (Malvinas) should not be part of the list of NSGT. They still are.
@16
Apr 06th, 2016 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Jumping the gun here aren't you? The date today is 6 April 2016, just lets not get ahead of ourselves Heh
Of course they are on the list of NSGT as the UK included them in 1946 against reservations from both countries. But the solution is NOT self determination as stated in the press release as the UNGA and C24 have adopted specific resolutions on each case. The UN has established that these cases involve sovereignty disputes and stated that bilateral negotiations as the means to solve each of them. Never has the UN accepted self determination in these cases. UN Charter certainly includes self determination as well as territorial integrity; UN resolutions refer to each case specifically. Don't get us messed up guys
Apr 06th, 2016 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0@16
Apr 06th, 2016 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0In exactly the same way as something that no resolution of the UN, absolutely none, has established: that in the cases of these territories the right of peoples to self-determination does not apply to the current population of them.
But the UN Secretary General Ban-Ki-Moon on Wednesday May 19th 2010 when speaking at a forum on de-colonization in Noumea, New Caledonia did say-
“The world’s 16 remaining territories that still do not govern themselves must have complete freedom in deciding their future status”
He didn’t say “with the exception of the people of the Falkland Islands or Gibraltar’
http://www.speroforum.com/a/33140/Remaining-nonselfgoverning-territories-must-have-full-freedom-of-choice-Ban-says (accessed 13/12/13)
Forgive me Mr Kohen...
Apr 06th, 2016 - 10:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0But I read with interest your comment ....
'something that no resolution of the UN, absolutely none, has established: that in the cases of these territories the right of peoples to self-determination applies to the current population of them.'
I just wondered, as I can't find it myself, whether you could link me to the GA Resolution that states either that these territories are not entitled to Self Determination, or a UN GA resolution stating by name that the other remaining 15 NSGT's are indeed, entitled to Self Determination and these two are not.
If you are correct in your assumption, then there should be UN GA resolutions to establish territory by territory that the other 15 NSGT's do have that right.
I have looked, but know that your expertize and knowledge in this area means you must be able to easily provide the relevant UN GA resolutions and save me precious time in uncovering the facts you speak of.
Many thanks in advance
@16
Apr 06th, 2016 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0You say in your comment:-
”The statement also rightly remembered that both remain Non-Self-Governing Territories (NSGT), -I add- in spite of their allegations that they are self-governed“
That is not the case. What they actually said was ”both Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands are on the list of Non-Self-Governing Territories held by the United Nations”. - that does not mean that thay accept that they are not self-governing.
@16
Apr 06th, 2016 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ that no resolution of the UN, absolutely none, has established: that in the cases of these territories the right of peoples to self-determination applies to the current population of them.”
But absolutely no UN resolution has stated that self determination does not apply to the Falklands Islands and Gibraltar.
You have deployed a red herring.
So therefore, you can no doubt explain why in 2008 at the UN when Spain and Argentina attempted to assert that self determination did not apply to the populations of NSGTs under sovereignty dispute, that motion was voted against in the UN?
That seems to be the nearest evidence to dispute what you have said, for example, you have not stated anywhere that the UN says that self determination does not apply to the people of the Falklands and Gibraltar.
#16 Senor Kohen.
Apr 06th, 2016 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Typically you forget the Omnibus Resolution that the General Assembly adopts every year and which says, very clearly that in decolonization cases there is “ no alternative” to self-determination.
You know this of course, but choose to ignore it.
The Falklands remain on the C24's list of colonies to be decolonized simply because they chose an option that the UN GA finds difficult to accept. That they do so is the the GA's problem - not that of the Islanders who consider the matter settled.
And so it is.
16 Marcelo Kohen
Apr 06th, 2016 - 12:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Self-determination doesn't require any subsequent approval from the UNGA as it is erga omnes law as has been reiterated by the ICJ for all people, and has been further endorsed by numerous UNGAS resolutions. The reason they have not been removed from the list has nothing thing to do with legal conciderations, which is why they both can ignore any further political interference with impunity.
I still can't find the definitive UNGA list of NSGT territories that states who is entitled to self determination.
Apr 06th, 2016 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mr Kohen, please help, I want to believe you, I really do.....
16 Marcelo Kohen
Apr 06th, 2016 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I often wonder what it is to be constantly bettered by the small population of both the Falklands and Gibraltar. It must be galling for you an Argentine to see this happening time and time again year in year out especially after writing a fiction novel to try and legitimize the many lies that we see coming out of your country. You might fool your many followers back in your own country however the rest of us who are far more educated than the average Argentine can see through all the subterfuge and red herrings that come out off Switzerland. By the way is it not time for you to pen another fictional novel. I do so love fairy story's that put the Brothers Grim to shame.
“The statement also takes for granted something that no resolution of the UN, absolutely none, has established: that in the cases of these territories the right of peoples to self-determination applies to the current population of them.”
Apr 06th, 2016 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the current population of these territories are not entitled to self-determination, Marcelo Kohen, who are the selves who are entitled to determine them?
Mr Kohen has gone very quiet.
Apr 06th, 2016 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@18 Alejo
Perhaps you would like to reconsider your comment seeing as Mr Kohen is unable to help Mr Marshall in obtaining a link to UNGA resolutions nor I suspect would you be able to supply links to support your hypothesis but I remain to be corrected.
Your statement “Never has the UN accepted self determination in these cases” is near enough identical to Mr Kohens and I would re-iterate to yourself what I said to Mr Kohen in my @19
@28 darragh
Apr 06th, 2016 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I am ALEJO not AlejoMARTINEZ who is the author of No.18!
@29 Alejo
Apr 06th, 2016 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry, my mistake. I humbly and sincerely beg your pardon.
Kohen. get your backside back here and answer a few questions that have been put to you. Or are like all the other Argentine's we see on here all piss and wind who are good for nothing more than lying
Apr 06th, 2016 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Joint statement from Spain and Argentinian childish behaviour,
Apr 06th, 2016 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Apparently they are getting very serious now,
They are threatening not to buy any more jelly babies or sugared dummy’s.
.
@25
Apr 06th, 2016 - 08:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let me help. The definitive UNGA list of NSGT territories entitled to self determination is all of them, without exception.
“By the terms of the amended resolution, the Assembly would further reaffirm that, in the process of decolonization, there was no alternative to the principle of self-determination, which was also a fundamental human right.”
http://www.un.org/press/en/2008/gaspd406.doc.htm
And every year since 2008, the UNGA has voted :
“The General Assembly
2. Also reaffirms that, in the process of decolonization, there is no
alternative to the principle of self-determination, which is also a fundamental human right, as recognized under the relevant human rights conventions; ”
http://www.un.org/press/en/2008/gaspd406.doc.htm
Re the idiocy of No.16 I thought there may be an interest in this link
Apr 06th, 2016 - 08:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://falklandsnews.wordpress.com/tag/marcelo-kohen/
It is clear that nowhere is established that a particular population (Gibraltar and the Falklands) shouldn't determine their future nor are they barred from choosing the way in which they wish to be organised and with whom they wish to associate themselves.
Apr 06th, 2016 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obviously Mr. Kohen thinks otherwise, and in the case of the Falklands there have been extensive conversations during which Argentina attacked the Islanders and the UK expressing that the conversations were getting nowhere.
It is clear that Argentina, having written in her constitution the only acceptable outcome to her, and doing so has preempted the only acceptable agenda for conversations which should be limited to a sovereignty transfer at a date to be agreed. This is not acceptable neither to the UK who is responsible for Falklands Foreign Relations, neither to the Islanders themselves.
In 2004 Mr. Kohen argued in favour of Argentina going to the International Court of Justice.
It is clear that all the instances for the resolution of the dispute created by Argentina in 1941 have been explored, and the military solution desired by Argentina has now been implemented .. the next instance in this process has to be the Court which can look in to the validity of Mr. Kohen's concepts.
Therefore Argentina should move in the International Court of Justice if she considers that some of her rights are not properly attended.
@33 Thanks Hans, but Mr Kohen has suggested that the UN has not stated in a resolution that either the Falklands or Gibraltar have the right to self determination, so by default using his logic, either all the NSGT's do not have the right or the UN would have produced a resolution stating the the 15 other NSGT's (all named) do have the right.
Apr 06th, 2016 - 09:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We are yet to see this resolution.
Sadly, like always he thinks that by writing a lot of waffle, then running away not to defend it, makes him correct. He is just like a little child that sticks his fingers in his ears and shouts blah, blah , blah so they do not have to listen to anyone but themselves.
Kohen is a sophist of the worst kind as he continually makes assertions without the backing of legal judgements, simply his own personal opinion, which legally makes such claims worthless.
Apr 06th, 2016 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For example in the publication Página12 dated Tuesday, March 5, 2013 he writes “This is a plebiscite organised by the British government”. Which is a deliberate lie as many independent publications and witnesses have attested, it was organised by the F.I. government. Then he attempts to discredit the referendum by implying that there is a prerequisite for the UN to be involved, where no such requirement in The Charter et al. Then he further states there are categories of people under international law who are entitled to self-determination, citing the UNGA as his source. With very few exceptions the GA resolutions are not international law, merely advisements.
It would seem that Sr. Kohen's blandishments have more too do with his continued employment by the Argentine government than with the reality of international law
@37 Terence Hill
Apr 07th, 2016 - 06:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is Kohen actually employed by the Argentine Government? Please see link http://graduateinstitute.ch/directory/_/people/kohen
@37 I don't think Terrance means his primary employment, rather like a weekend paper round, something on the side..under the radar as it were.
Apr 07th, 2016 - 06:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0Kohen is the most irrelevant little puppet we have seen from Argentina and believe me they have some of the most irrelevant people in the world.
Apr 07th, 2016 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 038 gordo1
Apr 07th, 2016 - 07:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina files legal case against US in International Court of Justice Friday, August 8, 2014
Claims Washington violated Argentina’s sovereignty as a result of court decisions on debt...
Argentina’s sponsoring attorney in The Hague, Marcelo Kohen, who represented the government in previous claims at the world court, questioned Judge Griesa’s decisions that have favored the hedge funds... ”
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/166582/argentina-files-legal-case-against-us-in-international-court-of-justice--
Funny how Argentina can use the Kohen and the ICJ on other matters but wont touch the Falklands at the ICJ. like I said all piss and wind and a waste of space.
Apr 11th, 2016 - 10:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK will return the Malvinas within 25 years.
Apr 12th, 2016 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0@43 No it won't
Apr 12th, 2016 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0@43
Apr 13th, 2016 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're boring.
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