MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Spanish caretaker minister calls for Gibraltar joint sovereignty, following Brexit
The Spanish government has called for joint sovereignty over Gibraltar in the wake of the UK's vote to leave the EU. The British overseas territory of 30,000 voted overwhelmingly for remain, with 95.9% opting to stay in the union. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesDidn't realise it was April 1st.
Jun 24th, 2016 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0LOL.
Jun 24th, 2016 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0these clowns will never learn.
The Spanish caretaker minister .....and whose armada?
Jun 25th, 2016 - 01:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0It is a nonsense but it does indicate that the U.K. is viewed as weaker now. It is a perception to be worked on.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 07:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0Julie Girling, the Conservative MEP for South West England and Gibraltar, said; ”I am deeply sorry that the people of the UK have chosen this leap in the dark. I believe future generations will question our wisdom.”
Jun 25th, 2016 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0What she really meant of course was “I am going to be chucked on the scrap heap soon and lose all the lovely money.” Just the same as the millions of immigrants have done to the low paid end of the British work chain.
Cue the usual crap of 'racist' et al from the usual source.
Margallo never stops being trying, does he? Has he ever read a history book? Gibraltar became British, in perpetuity, in 1713. Britain didn't, temporarily, join the EU until 260 years later.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 11:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0But it's still for Gibraltarians to decide. Become Spanish if you want!
Well Chris at least now you don't have to worry about the threat of radical islam, now that Polish, Irish, and German immigration is set to drop, you are left with just the good islam free folks of Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nigeria.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom#Countries_of_origin
@4 “ ....the U.K. is viewed as weaker now. It is a perception to be worked on....”
Jun 25th, 2016 - 01:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sinking a couple of Spanish and Argentine ships (or their remaining dinghies, or whatever they have) should send a message. If done properly, the hulks could become artificial reefs to promote undersea life which would be infinitely more intelligent than what was exhibited by their former owners.
8 - how can you say Spain has dinghies when it has a ship bigger than any in your current fleet.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 9 Vestige
Jun 25th, 2016 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mmmm! That would be the one that should be in the scrapyard the or sold to the argies, always assuming it could make the passage south?
Just jealous that Spain has a bigger one than you.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8 I was speaking of the economy.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have a bigger one than you.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0#11
Jun 25th, 2016 - 04:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But we have nuclear subs.
@11 Vestige
Jun 25th, 2016 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not long before our supercarrier comes in-dwarfing anything the Spanish have.
If there's any funny business we can help Catalonia campaign for a referendum, and as Clyde points out Spain has nothing whatsoever. to match our subs.
And if Scotland get independence, and Gibraltar houses the nuclear deterrent, there will be a huge UK military presence there that will plain shit Spain's pants.
When we leave Europe in two years, we won't have to worry about upsetting Spain and also now wet Cameron is going.
And if Trump becomes president, he's not going to stand for the Spanish harbouring the Russian Navy, or harassing US subs in Gibraltarian waters.
He's going to ask, who is almost always the country that stands with the USA, when there's a scrap?
A clue, it isn't Spain.
His relationship with the UK will be very different from Obarmy.
14 - But Spain has 30,000 British citizens within arms length.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 07:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 015 - lots of ifs. Tell me when it sails. Til then....you lose this one.
Today the Gibraltar chronicle printed this item and the replies,
Jun 25th, 2016 - 07:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0perhaps some of you would like to read them.
plus an interesting article from the UK Defence journal
Spain calls for ‘Joint Control’ of Gibraltar following Brexit
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/spain-calls-joint-control-gibraltar-following-brexit/
And
Picardo and Feetham in call for unity after Brexit vote
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/spain-calls-joint-control-gibraltar-following-brexit/
interesting article.
No need for a fight when you own the only land link.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 08:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Menorca,
Jun 25th, 2016 - 10:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0was this not part of the deal,
if Spain wants Gibraltar does that mean we have a legitimate claim on Menorca,
Oh Menorca's not just Spanish.
Jun 25th, 2016 - 11:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's EU territory too.
@9 Vestige: “ .... when it has a ship bigger than any in your current fleet....”
Jun 26th, 2016 - 02:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually, I don't own a fleet of ships. Perhaps you were unaware of that.
If you were referring to the countries which have provided my passports, then you are only wildly speculating again, since you have not the foggiest idea which countries those are. For all you know, I could be a Russian national. Or French. Or neither. Or both. O potser català. O potser no.
--------
@18 Vestige: “ No need for a fight when you own the only land link.”
-- That must explain why Crimea is still politically a part of Ukraine, eh?
@20 Vestige: “ Menorca's not just Spanish. It's EU territory too.”
Since the EU is not much of a military alliance and anyway is crumbling now, that just might mean that Menorca will be returned to the UK within 25 years.
So Gibraltar is still British.
Jun 26th, 2016 - 09:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0So far nothing has changed.
21 - very well. Spain has a bigger ship than any in the current UK fleet.
Jun 26th, 2016 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Happy now ?
Also I think you'll find slight differences between the situation in Crimea and the situation GiB is about to find itself in.
Menorca .... Yeah OK.
22 - so far the tides just suddenly gone way out. so far nothing has changed.
The real navies of the world tremble at the thought of a large cruise ship.
Jun 26th, 2016 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Happy now?
@23
Jun 26th, 2016 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Spain has a bigger ship than any in the current UK fleet.”
Should make an excellent tomb then, just like the Belgrano. ;)
http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/imoyaro/media/chopperlaff_zpsryuikyku.gif.html
24 - yes. I drew out that dismissive quip, spoiled the ignorant fun with a nasty fact and made some little egos think twice. So yes, yes I am.
Jun 26th, 2016 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 025 - different country. Your desperation flatters me.
A British sub has arrived in Gibraltar,
Jun 26th, 2016 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@26
Jun 26th, 2016 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not at all, same tribe of bipedal locusts. ;)
http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/imoyaro/media/chopperlaff_zpsryuikyku.gif.html
28 - ah yes and let me guess, you belong to the master race.
Jun 27th, 2016 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0What went wrong.
@29
Jun 27th, 2016 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What's that? *poke poke*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw_1OHTWUnc
@29 “...let me guess, you belong to the master race. ”
Jun 27th, 2016 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wasn't it an Argie who bought all those Nazi items at auction the other day?
Wasn't it the Argies, and particularly the Peroncho Argies, who supported, abetted, and sheltered the Nazis before, during, and after WWII, as a matter of state policy?
Wasn't it the Peroncho Argies who attempted to emulate the Weimar republic by repeatedly contriving their own currency hyperinflation events?
30 - what a strange little fellow. And the grasshopper too.
Jun 30th, 2016 - 01:09 am - Link - Report abuse 031 - oooh you've got me there, one argie buys nazi items thus argies are all nazi collaborators.
Wonder what you might make of a head of state shaking hitlers hand, or a possible future head of state wearing a nazi armband.
Wasn't there a British unit in the nazi military.
Wasn't there a huge pro-fascist movement in the UK in the run up to ww2.
Didn't Britain invent, and use on many occasions in many countries the so called “concentration camp”.
Oooh inference oooooh.
No, vestigial, read the part about Perón having been a huge fan of Mussolini, and later incorporating much of Mussolini's government programmes into Argentine policies and practices. Then go back and review the very close ties that Argentina held with the Axis before and during WWII. And the Argentine government's sanctioning of the flying of the swastika flag on the streets of Bs As. Note that this was officially permitted by the Argentine national government, as opposed to the little private outbursts that were conducted by small numbers of citizens in places like Chile and ultimately forbidden there. Then let's discuss the active efforts by Perón to bring thousands of Nazi war criminals to Argentina, not to have them work on industrial technology to benefit the country, but instead to hide them from prosecution. And how Perón coordinated with the catholic church in Argentina and elsewhere to bring those Nazis to Argentina. And then let's not forget that Perón personally specified the protection for Adolph Eichmann in Argentina. Ergo, specific and undeniable Argentine government policy to provide sub-rosa protection for thousands of Nazi war criminals.
Jun 30th, 2016 - 04:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0Speaking of capital streets, I do recall one Oswald Mosley ... MP, and the huge government authorized, and national police protected, British fascist marches through the heart of London.
Jun 30th, 2016 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting co-incoidence to see a peak in anti-Polish and antisemitic attacks throughout England in this weeks newspapers. Didn't take long for the truth to come out.
Peron might have been a fan of Mussolini, but the king of England took it one step further declaring himself a fan of Adolf, going to chill with him in Bavaria and marching with his pals.
Hmmm, Now where's that footage of the royal family, the heart of the realm, giving the Nazi salute.
Oh yeah, and Spain still have a bigger one.
The difference bring that we as a country did not have a love affair with Nazism...I think WW2 showed that up.
Jun 30th, 2016 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0the king of England took it one step further declaring himself a fan of Adolf
What did the King of Scotland, Wales and M.Ireland do ?
The King did not last long and we have two bigger ones sitting at Rosyth.
Alas, vestigial still does not understand that in the civilised world today, kings and queens are not the government. Still stuck in the 16th century, we see. Hence the propriety of the nick: vestige.
Jun 30th, 2016 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No love affair... Yet BUF marches with many thousands in attendance.
Jun 30th, 2016 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Reduced to searching for errors in geographical terms, while referring to “M.Ireland”.
Yes sitting and waiting. They're not ships yet so hard luck. Spain has a bigger one today.
36 - Marti fails to realize the official role and powers of the British royals in the late 30's and today. My nickname is superb and meaningful. Yours is 'meh'.
Spain still has a bigger one. Despite your ranting.
You should admire its impressive size and imagine it entering London. Tower bridge parting eagerly to receive its girth and high quantity of white uniformed Spanish sea-men.
“ .....one of Argentina's most shameful secrets: the enthusiastic role of dictator Juan Peron in providing cover for major Nazi war criminals as the Third Reich collapsed, allowing them to lead prosperous and protected lives after the war. Few characters get off easily in this passionate account, which untangles the networks and escape mechanisms that made it all possible. Coming to Peron's assistance were numerous institutions and individuals: the Vatican, the Argentinean Catholic Church, the Argentinean government, and the Swiss authorities who cooperated through a secret office set up by Peron's agents in Bern. Operatives from Heinrich Himmler's secret service arrived in Madrid as early as 1944 to prepare an escape route; in 1946, this operation moved to Buenos Aires, establishing its headquarters in the presidential palace. Eventually, this operation's tentacles stretched from Scandinavia to Italy, aiding French and Belgian war criminals and bringing in gold that the Croatian state treasury had stolen from 600,000 Jewish and Serb victims of the Ustasha regime. ...”
Jun 30th, 2016 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Part of a review of the book, “ The Real Odessa: Smuggling the Nazis to Peron's Argentina .”
For many of us, the very expression 'Concentration Camp' is inextricably linked to Nazi Germany and the horrors of the Holocaust. The idea of British concentration camps is a strange and unsettling one. It was however the British, rather than the Germans, who were the chief driving force behind the development and use of concentration camps in the Twentieth Century.The operation by the British army of concentration camps during the Boer War led to the deaths of tens of thousands of children from starvation and disease. More recently, slave-laborers confined in a nationwide network of camps played an integral role in Britain's post-war prosperity. In 1947, a quarter of the country's agricultural workforce were prisoners in labor camps.Not only did the British government run their own concentration camps, they willingly acquiesced in the setting up of such establishments in the United Kingdom by other countries. During and after the Second World War, the Polish government-in-exile maintained a number of camps in Scotland where Jews, communists and homosexuals were imprisoned and sometimes killed.This book tells the terrible story of Britain's involvement in the use of concentration camps, which did not finally end until the last political prisoners being held behind barbed wire in the United Kingdom were released in 1975. From England to Cyprus, Scotland to Malaya, Kenya to Northern Ireland.
Jul 01st, 2016 - 01:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0British Concentration Camps; A Brief History from 1900 to 1975 details some of the most shocking and least known events in British history.
#35
Jul 01st, 2016 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0The error in M.Ireland is due to the fact that the lettering on my keyboard has rubbed off at M and N also O and U. Please forgive my error.
As to the size of vessels in respective navies why did you bother to raise the point.?
In childish terms, you started it !
As to your geographical comment, the King was the Monarch of Gt.Britain and N.Ireland, not England, which you studiously refuse to accept in your posts.
Yes it was a well known fact that in the Boer war, the UK concentration camps BUT to compare these to Nazi Germany's extermination camps is fatuous.
There was no master plan to exterminate Boers held there but a complete lack of care and consideration for those held in custody.
I have not read the book and I suspect that you have not either.
As to the Polish context,under the terms of the Allied Forces Act, the British had no legal right to interfere in what was happening at camps and army bases being operated by the Polish Government in Exile.
Robert McIntyre, the Member for the Scottish constituency of Motherwell, stood up in the House and asked the following question:
“Will the government make provision for the inspection, at any time, by representatives of the various districts of Scotland of any penal settlements, concentration camps, detention barracks, prisons, etc. within their area, whether these institutions are under the control of the British, American, French or Polish governments or any other authority; and for the issuing of a public report by those representatives?”
“In 1947, a quarter of the country's agricultural workforce were prisoners in labor camps.” Where were these camps ?
My wife's father befriended a German POW who was working as a farm labourer
in Renfrewshire. He was allowed out to visit them and eventually returned home in late 1945. Many of his fellow POW's decided not to go back to Soviet controlled Germany and chose to travel on to Canada in 1946.
I think slave labour is a rather pejorative term in this case.
40 - ah, funny how your posts can become nuanced, balanced and thought out when on the defensive.
Jul 01st, 2016 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You'll have to address your questions to the books author.
Eddie was indeed king of England, just as he was king of Scotland wales and northern Ireland. Don't get picky and paranoid over semantics - Queen/king of england is commonly used worldwide as a quick, if incomplete, reference.
Lastly, I raised the point of vessel sizes as a correction to Marti's attempt at humor. This brand of willfully ignorant humor is very difficult to contend with through proper explanation, and its all over this site, it relies on dismissiveness and complete skepticism to any response longer than one sentence.
Its Jeremy clarkson brand humor, NRA brand humor, trump style humor and its extremely satisfying to correct it with a swift dose of its own myopic medicine.
So yeah, I bit, I got into the sty to catch the Marti pig, but it was worth it.
I'll wash myself off with some real discussion later.
#41
Jul 01st, 2016 - 04:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How did you get to concentration camps when the topic was Gibraltar joint sovereignty
I do get picky when incorrect terms are used in error, or in your case on purpose. As you use American spelling, I presume that you are from the American continent.
#42
Jul 01st, 2016 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Via Marti bringing up the irrelevant topic of nazis.
No, the term wasn't used on purpose, enter the words 'queen of' in the google search bar, turn off personalized results, have a look at the predictions.
We all make minor semantic errors from tine to tine, domt we.
You can presume my location but its just that, a presumption.
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