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Gibraltar lobbying for full involvement in mapping UK's exit from European Union

Wednesday, July 13th 2016 - 03:34 UTC
Full article 27 comments

A team from Gibraltar is making the round of British government offices, parliament, friends and supporters to ensure the Rock has a full input into the process triggered by Brexit. Chief Minister Fabian Picardo and the Deputy Chief Minister Dr Joseph Garcia have met with Conservative and Labour lawmakers and this week visited Downing Street to talk with the UK Government team mapping out the way forward following the result of the Referendum of 23rd June. Read full article


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  • ChrisR

    Was 'Tits' disMay included?

    She will be selling the Brexit vote down the Rhine ASAP.

    Jul 13th, 2016 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Conqueror

    Never mind, Gibraltar. YOU made your bed. What does “full input” mean? You can have input on items that are relevant to an Overseas Territory. If what we are planning has no relevance to you, no you can't.

    Of course, if you wish, you can “do a Scotland”. Have a referendum, vote for independence and become spanish the day after.

    Right now, Rajoy & Co need a boost. Marching troops over the border, a la Hitler, would probably be ideal.

    Jul 13th, 2016 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @2 What are you talking about? Gibraltar didn't do anything, they're being dragged out of the EU against their will by Britain, just like nearly half of British people.

    Of course they are trying to protect their interests, they'd be mad not to. They are at much greater risk than the UK from this stupid decision.

    Jul 14th, 2016 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    If Gibraltar gets full involvement then Cambridge demands exactly the same....and so will Sunderland.
    Better idea would be leave it to the appointed negotiators headed by David Davis.

    More than half of British people voted to leave. Why should they be forced to remain against their will?

    It was a brave decision not stupid.

    Loyalty is a two way street as is respect.

    Jul 14th, 2016 - 07:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    Some say, the UK is dragging some of the people against their will out of the EU,

    On the other hand,
    if the UK had voted to remain,
    would it not be fair to say the following,

    the UK is dragging some of the people into the EU again there will,

    the only way to solve this, is to have a referendum,
    We did,
    They voted to stay, that is democracy, like it or lump it,
    anything else is just dictatorship, pure ad simple,

    just my humble opinion.

    Jul 14th, 2016 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    The situation of Gibraltar is nothing like Cambridge or Sunderland. It's vastly more dependant on the single market and EU for it's prosperity and even survival. Gibraltar isn't and shouldn't be treated as just a part of the UK, and because of this it doesn't have any representation in parliament so they have to use other methods to get their voices heard.

    I certainly didn't expect people who are in favour of leaving the EU to vote to stay for Gibraltar's sake, but there's no need to deny the effects of leaving will be very bad there. Every decision has costs and benefits.

    As for dragging people in or out, plenty of people were complaining that they were being dragged into the EU against their will before the referendum. They said it felt like they had lost their country, and that is how I feel now. Choosing to become poorer, less powerful, having less opportunities; if Scotland leaves Britain won't even exist in it's current form. The future looks very dark right now.

    And actually I think voting leave was both brave and stupid. Staying in was undoubtedly the safe option.

    Jul 15th, 2016 - 12:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    Sunderland is more dependant on the EU than you might think. Most of the vehicles it produces are exported directly to Europe.
    The people of The UK voted to leave the EU and their will must be respected, even the EU Federalists in Brussells recognise that.
    I agree that Scotland will likely go its own way but that can't be helped. If it's all a matter of economics, there is an argument that the Scots would be idiots to turn away from a Union that accounts for x4 it's EU trade and at a time oil is half what it was. Still it's not all about trade it?
    As for safe options, in 1939 the safe option would have been for the UK to make peace with Nazi Germany instead of declaring war. In the case of Gibraltar the safe option would be to hand the place over to Spain.

    Jul 15th, 2016 - 05:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    The UK accounts for 15% of the EU budget, THAT'S what it is all about as far as the unelected commission are concerned.

    That was clear from the pictures of the woman responsible to the dictatorial bozos for ensuring enough money is available to pay for the pig trough. She looked really upset. Good.

    Jul 15th, 2016 - 10:48 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @7 Englander
    The more fool Sunderland for voting out then. The point is Sunderland has similar issues and concerns to many other areas of the UK, and has MPs to represent them in Parliament. Neither of those things is true for Gibraltar.

    Certainly it does not make economic sense for Scotland to leave the union. But the British people haven't exactly been voting according to sober economic sense lately have they? Personally I think the end of a union that has lasted 300 years and achieved so much, together, is a high price to pay. What's left of the UK will be greatly diminished if Scotland leaves.

    And I didn't say one should always choose the safe option. My point was that voting to leave *was* brave because it's not the safe option. It was also a stupid thing to do.

    @8 ChrisR
    I should think the biggest worry for the EU commission is the possibility of a domino effect if other countries decide to follow Britain's lead. Second would be the effect on the economies of the other member states of the uncertainty caused by Brexit. Of course the worst effect is on Britain but the other countries are also affected. That's why they are urging the UK to leave ASAP.

    Jul 15th, 2016 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    9 Perhaps the people of Sunderland and Scotland have other reasons other than purely economic reasons for voting out. Who are you to judge them or anybody else stupid or fools.
    As for Gibraltar..... I'm beginning to care less and less.

    Jul 15th, 2016 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Briton

    The people of Scotland voted to remain in the union,
    the SNP should respect this, and get on with it.

    The British people vote to leave the EU,
    we should all accept this and get on with it,

    Jul 15th, 2016 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 9 DemonTree

    You have not understood the situation at all regarding the auto industry.

    Britain is the second most important sales market for Mercedes, BMW and VW with hundreds of thousands of sales each year.

    Why do you think Merkel looks like the SS are after her? She has been told in no uncertain manner that the auto industry in Germany comes before politics.

    AND, do you know that the EU has just signed a NO TARRIFF agreement with PAKISTAN! I suggest you read a little more of the business press.

    Jul 15th, 2016 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @10 Englander
    Evidently they have reasons other than economic ones. However, most of the leave voters I have seen on the net or in the media and the few I know in real life seem to be in denial about the economic issues, or else they are remarkably ill informed. Most seem to have no idea what a free trade agreement is, or how the single market works, and they are not willing to listen to anyone who does either.

    I can respect people who understand the issues and come to a different conclusion from me, but making a choice from ignorance and making no effort to become better informed is simply foolish.

    And does that mean you only care about Gibraltar when it gives you a chance to insult Spain?

    @12 ChrisR
    I thought you said the only concern was the EU budget?

    I don't believe I have even mentioned the auto industry, so how you can decide I don't understand it is quite a mystery. I'm sure Merkel is worried about the German car industry, among other things. However, we will not be negotiating with Germany, but with the EU.

    I'm not sure what the relevance of an EU no tariff agreement with Pakistan is either, and I can't find anything recent on google. Perhaps you'd like to explain, and provide a link?

    Jul 15th, 2016 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    @ 13 DemonTree
    “I thought you said the only concern was the EU budget?”

    Enforced immigration also. Properly qualified and experienced English speaking immigrants are welcome as always.

    Here is just one of the links to the (main) trade deal. The 'extended scope' addition has not been published yet.

    “I don't believe I have even mentioned the auto industry, so how you can decide I don't understand it is quite a mystery. I'm sure Merkel is worried about the German car industry, among other things. However, we will not be negotiating with Germany, but with the EU.”

    The EU IS Germany as demonstrated by the comments from Merkel of late.

    Jul 16th, 2016 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    I will never insult Spain again.
    You seem to be advocating that only people with what you regard as having the correct education and views that coincide with your own, should merit a vote.
    Who the hell do you think you are?
    In any event, thanks to you, my views about Gibraltar have changed completely and I repeat, I will never have a bad word to say about Spain again.

    Jul 16th, 2016 - 12:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    I think 'The Sturgeon' might have 'a haggis in the oven' if this picture is anything to go by!

    Or is it too many fried Mars bars?

    Jul 16th, 2016 - 05:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @15 Englander
    Jajaja, my work here is done.

    Really, I should ask the Spanish government to pay me. Well, if Spain actually had a government...

    But seriously, I am not advocating that anyone should be denied a vote. I don't think ill-informed people should be prevented from voting, I think voters should make an effort to inform themselves so they can make a sensible decision. Of course in the case of the recent referendum, this was not so easy as the two sides made no effort to provide honest information, but instead told a lot of lies and half truths, and exaggerated the real issues to ridiculousness.

    @14 ChrisR
    I read your story about the free trade deal with Pakistan. I wouldn't call 2013 'just signed'; the article says it has already improved Pakistan's economy, and it is conditional on Pakistan improving human rights and labour protections. That sounds like a good thing.

    And yes Germany does have disproportionate power in the EU since the Euro crisis, but any deal with the UK has to be agreed by all 26 remaining member states. I doubt that the newer members will be too keen to agree a deal without freedom of movement, for example.

    Jul 17th, 2016 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    Certainly you have done an excellent job for Spain and I will keep to my promise. You have convinced me that Gibraltar would be financially better off joining Spain and staying in the EU.

    Whilst the campaign was flawed on both sides, people do have their own opinions without the biased EU funded BBC. They expressed their wishes at the ballot box determined to resist extreme, taxpayer funded. pro EU propaganda, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered. So vociferous were some individuals that they demanded pens instead of pencils to record their “out” vote. Many were convinced that the Govt would do anything to stay in the EU up to and including electoral fraud.
    And let's remember Article 50 has still not been served. Despite the referendum result and Cameron's promise .....we remain within the EU.
    Freedom of movement is the EU's current bottom line but before giving in and waving the white flag let's see what negotiations bring. The single market has enormous benefits for both parties. But I have to say the growing economies of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, China and India are looking very attractive.

    Jul 17th, 2016 - 12:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    “You have convinced me that Gibraltar would be financially better off joining Spain and staying in the EU. ”

    Ah, that makes more sense than what I thought you were saying. And you could be right, but it depends on a number of factors like what kind of agreement the UK makes with the EU (if any), and what kind of deal Spain would offer Gibraltar. They would certainly NOT be better off becoming an ordinary part of Andalusia, it has the highest unemployment rate in the entire EU!

    I didn't know the BBC got EU funding, that's interesting. According to this website it was mostly spent on the World Service, or at least intended for that purpose. Still it is enough money to possibly influence their attitude.

    And I saw the tweets from people saying to bring a pen to the polling booth. At least one good thing has come from this, such fears are revealed as the paranoia they were. I hope it might also encourage more young people to vote, but I'm not holding my breath.

    I don't think you need to worry about Article 50. It would have been extremely irresponsible for Cameron to serve it and then quit immediately, and May has promised to do so once they are ready, which I suspect will take more than 4 days. Now, I would be happy for them to delay as long as possible (about 10 years would be my preference ;-) ) but there's just no way they can get out of it completely. The EU is also pushing the government to do it as soon as possible of course.

    Of course I don't think the UK should just agree to whatever the EU wants. Freedom of movement is difficult because it divides the country. Certainly most businesses, the financial sector in London, as well as farmers etc would like it to continue, and the government was relying on immigration to grow the economy and prevent a pensions crisis. But obviously it was one of the biggest issues in the referendum, so they have to be seen to be doing something about it.

    Jul 17th, 2016 - 03:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    Mrs May will have to do a little more than merely being seen to be doing something.

    Jul 17th, 2016 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    We'll have to wait and see if anything actually changes. Don't forget that last year Britain got more immigrants from outside the EU than inside it, and they were totally under our government's control. In fact, under the control of the Home Office, headed by one Mrs May.

    Jul 18th, 2016 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    The difference being that Mrs May doesn't have any Cameroons to frustrate her.
    However looks like Belgium are conspiring to have UK thrown out of EU prior to article 50 being served.
    Could be a good move but I agree let's wait and see.

    Jul 18th, 2016 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    3 DemonTree
    “Gibraltar …being dragged out of the EU against their will ” All of the constituents you've mentioned were able to vote on the issue. Is it your view that the democratic process should be ignored when we don't like the result?

    Jul 18th, 2016 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    True, and she knows it's a real sticking point for a lot of people. It was convenient for the government to be able to blame the EU for high immigration, but now that policy has caught up with them they will need to deal with the real issues.

    How can Belgium get the UK thrown out of the EU? There is no mechanism for removing a member state so presumably they'd have to show that the UK had broken one of the treaties. Seems both unlikely and disadvantageous to everyone.

    Jul 18th, 2016 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    Have a look at Article7 of the Lisbon treaty.
    I have no opinion on whether it's's an EU issue.

    Jul 18th, 2016 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I looked it up. Article 7 allows the EU to suspend various rights of a member state, including the right to vote in the European Council. It does not allow for kicking out a member state, but presumably could be used to put pressure on the UK to trigger the exit process sooner.

    However this article can only be invoked if “there is a clear risk of a serious breach by a Member State of the values referred to in Article 2.” These values are “respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities.” You can see that “Delaying triggering Article 50 after a referendum” does not fit in this list :-).

    I think it's pretty clear this story is just scaremongering.

    “Is it your view that the democratic process should be ignored when we don't like the result?”

    Not at all. I said that Gibraltar did not choose to leave the EU and were entitled to advocate for their own interests in this situation. I don't think the British government should ignore the referendum result and I don't think there is any chance that they will.

    Jul 18th, 2016 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Englander

    Well, at least you're aware of it now.
    No doubt the real lawyers will be providing advice as to what constitutes “serious” and how they define the various “values” including “respect for democracy”.
    Let's wait and you mentioned previously.
    Will be interesting to learn which countries in addition to Belgium are involved.

    Jul 19th, 2016 - 05:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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