MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Uruguay could compete for another pulp mill, if it develops logistics infrastructure
Finland´s UPM pulp conglomerate which already has a plant in Uruguay announced it will commence discussions with the Uruguayan government on the development of logistics infrastructure for a possible mounting of another mill. Discussions will include railroad and roads, which currently are a critical challenge to establish large scale industrial operation in the Uruguayan inland and to connect it to a deep sea port. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThe murdering Tupa bastards of the present 'government' aptly called The Broad Fraud by most people other than the 1.4M stinking poor living a cushy life on 'No Money Pepe's special handout, are completely incapable of rising to the challenge: they have NO money and they have crashed the economy with their laughable 'business plans'.
Jul 19th, 2016 - 10:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0Also, after decades of screwing the teachers over and constantly altering what pupils must do to graduate into the 'working society', there are less than 600,000 actual workers (government work does not make profits though such workers are 'taxed') and the skills are lamentable. In short there is only a very small skilled workforce.
I am in my sixth year in Uruguay, a beautiful country with many good people in it, and each year I am told this year will see a new deep sea port or fibre broadband into your home, etc, etc. It never happens.
It only!
@2 ChrisR
Jul 19th, 2016 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your critique of the country that has made you welcome is really rather sad.
I see the “activists” of Gualeguachu are already complaining about this though it has damn all to do with them. It's them that' pollute the Uruguay river.
Jul 19th, 2016 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 2 gordo1
Jul 19th, 2016 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unlike your Popesicle and his lying 'missives' every word of my comment is true and meant in a positive manner. The Broad Fraud are destroying Uruguay for only one reason: self enrichment.
I suspect that you were born in Spain of British parents which is why you had a Cedula at 22 and changed from CofE to the RC heresy. It also explains why you think like a LatAm and claim that The Broad Fraud will chuck me out of the country. Come on, own up to the truth for once, Paul Cedron used to claim that and he was an argie.
Redpoll has lived here from a very young age and continues to farm here if I am not mistaken, is his comment equally sad?
@ 3 redpoll
Great to see you back, are you OK?
Did you see the article about our glorious Minister for Tourism, the cost of her altering the 'clock' hours of U$D 11M in extra electricity is 'matched' by the total takings from tourists in PdelE at U$D 11.1M. Pity the cost and taxes has to come out of that.
So as we both predicted, another stunning move by The Broad Fraud.
@4 ChrisR
Jul 19th, 2016 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”I suspect that you were born in Spain of British parents which is why you had a Cedula at 22 and changed from CofE to the RC heresy(Nonsense). It also explains why you think like a LatAm and claim that The Broad Fraud will chuck me out of the country. Come on, own up to the truth for once, Paul Cedron used to claim that and he was an argie.”
What you suspect and what is the truth are totally different. 1)Whilst I have lived in Spain and first went there in as a 10 year old I was born in the UK. 2) I chose to become a Catholic very late in life in fact only 6 years ago. 3)I do not think like a LatAm(whatever that may be)- my thoughts are my own - and neither do I claim that the Broad “Fraud” will chuck you out of Uruguay - I am suggesting that as foreigner you should not be criticising your host country as “briskly” as you do. It is not to your advantage 4) My “cédula” was issued by the Colombian authorities when I first went to work there.
And exactly what did Paul Cedron used to claim?
You also refer to Redpoll - I have actually spoken to him on two or three occasions by telephone and he seems to me to be an eminently sensible and knowledgeable gentleman who, as far as I can recall, never seems to jeopardize his presence in his country of choice.
You really are a very confused and silly old man!
@ 5 gordo01
Jul 20th, 2016 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0No confusion on my part and although I am 70, fortunately my head feels as if I am 25 YO.
The only one who has demonstrated confusion is yourself with you choice of religion. Though to me, any form of religion demonstrates the holder has no grasp on reality and is in need of some other 'entity' to enable him / her to deal with 'life' whilst looking forward to death and the 'release' from worry that will bring.
Hope that helps.
@6 ChrisR, stop showing your ignorance. So, faith is beyond your comprehension, we can all see that but stop hounding people for their beliefs. You are an intolerant old git who left the U.K. for a new life that didn't turn out to be all you thought it would be. And now you can't afford to move back. Your frustration and bitterness oozes from your posts and picking fights is the only way you feel you have any control.
Jul 20th, 2016 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are kind of thick and unable to think beyond your very limited life experience. Stop making a tit of yourself on here. You don't sound clever, you sound like a complete twat.
@ 7 The Cracken
Jul 20th, 2016 - 01:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Twat am I?
Better than being an hysterical feminist who is 'proud' to stand-up to men who happen to disagree with her OPINIONS based not on judgement but what she 'thinks'.
And, as always you try to distort the truth about my lifestyle and competence.
Anybody who claims to be a 'success' as you do tells everyone who has held a senior directors position in an international company just the opposite.
It's pleasing that you need to come to the aid of the demonstrably feeble minded who rely on 'religion' for their sense of worth because you overlook the fact that until I was about 13 and started to really think for myself I was the senior altar server at a 'Highchurch' CofE in the West Midlands so I can assure open minded readers on here, but of course not you because you claim I am always a liar as well, that faith is not beyond the comprehension of anybody with a brain, it's just a myth and originally the way to control the masses for the benefit of those having to ensure no civil war took place due to the poor having no hope.
As it has escaped you, we all have our own right to be on here, so urinate on your way out.
@8 You do not have the mind of a 25 year old but of an eight year old bully in the playground. You are a nasty old codger. Thankfully your granddaughter will never have to know what a horrible old man you are. You will be dead before she can comprehend it.
Jul 20th, 2016 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I can be thankful every day that you no longer pollute England.
@6 ChrisR
Jul 20th, 2016 - 01:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You poor sick individual! You were the “senior altar server at a ”high church“ Anglican parish in the West Midlands so please explain what event made you such a nasty foul mouthed atheist? Your irrational atheist meanderings are those of an embittered individual NOT those of a self declared ”senior director position in an international company”.
Furthermore, are you able to explain your pretty constant use of foul expletives?
I thought this was about a new pulp mill in Uruguay and in view of the above posts I dont think I can contribute much to an analysis on the topic. Thank you for your good wishes.
Jul 20th, 2016 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@8 The word feminist is not an insult. I have explained oh, so many times to you that it just means equal opportunity; nothing to be afraid of. I am proud to want equality for women, what intelligent thinking person would not want that? You are not open-minded at all. You have built yourself a very small world with all your prejudices and it is perfect for your small mind.
Jul 20th, 2016 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only a 'Senior Director', not a Managing Director? Never mind, not everyone is up to it.
@10 I think we can all see what happened to ChrisR and his obsession that all the clergy are paedophiles. And his hatred of women comes from not being saved/or believed by one with the power to do so. That is horribly sad and worse, that he has never had the help he needs to come to terms with it. It does not, however, excuse his behaviour as an adult.
@ 11 redp0ll
Jul 20th, 2016 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Please may I ask you if you consider my post @1 in any way untruthful given the history of the Tupas and the continuing poor performance of the government?
Thank you in advance.
@13 Christ R
Jul 20th, 2016 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I understand that expatriate pensioners pay no income tax in Uruguay on their overseas earnings. If that is correct then your criticism of your host country is even more “beyond the pale”!
@ 14 gordo1
Jul 21st, 2016 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am trying to understand why you cannot grasp the reality of my tax situation because I have laid out the bare bones of it on here, right from the word go.
Perhaps your rabid distaste for me is blinding the limited intellect you have to reality. Not very Christian of you, is it? Not that it bothers me one jot it just illustrates why I have such a distaste for 'religion and the 'believers'.
Anyway, I pay tax on my pensions and interests in the UK though it is only a fraction of what it used to be when I was taking profits from my businesses.
I have NO overseas earnings apart from the forgoing.
In Uruguay I have ALL our money invested in the government bank which pays my earnings less tax at source. This is a significant amount of money. If you are indeed in the UK you may remember this is how it used to be before the citizen was lumbered with routine tax returns.
I also pay all of the taxes on my property, including 'baby school' tax as we jokingly name it. Only property owners pay this tax and it funds the classes provided for those children too young for the first years of junior school. It's not a great deal of money in the scheme of our budget and we are pleased to pay it. It is supposed to be ring fenced but The Broad Fraud have tried and failed to use the money for other things: you just cannot trust these arseholes.
You have clearly overlooked the concept of eliminating double taxation which the UL and Uruguay have signed and is why we do not pay tax on our money from the UK. And I remember you claiming to be a 'banker'.
We had our house repainted last year and had to obtain a 'licence' to do it (which costs) and then pay for each worker an amount in BPS'e (employment tax) as well as the usual property taxes.
And of course we pay IVA (VAT) on everything.
There are other, minor taxes, which we pay, but so what?
Ask your Dope of an Argy Pope when the RCC are going to start disbursing their wealth. You won't even get an answer.
@ChrisR
Jul 21st, 2016 - 01:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Are you totally deranged? What connection is there between my comment on the Uruguyan tax regime for retired foreign residents(asylum seekers?) and the Roman Catholic Church?
I also should advise you that I have no interest at all in the distribution of your income - I merely question your continuous criticism of the DEMOCRATICALLTY ELECTED Government of the country which has accepted you as a guest resident. That is plain bad manners!
@15 You give too much personal information away on here. Anyone can read it, not just the people commenting. You are living in a developing country with a large percentage of poor and you boast about substantial wealth (though that is subjective). Anyone inclined to could easily find you from all the information you have given on here. You have heard of kidnapping? Burglary? Why put your wife's life at risk?
Jul 21st, 2016 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No one here is impressed so why do it? Given you had to move to a developing country to have a reasonable standard of living in retirement I doubt your savings amount to all that much. So making out it is more just puts you at risk.
@16 ChrisR is a very stupid man. I know, like me, you have a bit of fun baiting him but remember the old adage “You can't teach a pig to sing; it doesn't work and it just annoys the pig”.
@ 16 gordo01 AND @ 17 The Cracken
Jul 21st, 2016 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You both deserve one another, a hysterical feminist and a deluded RC prisoner.
Fathead
So you can't link the hypocritical RCC position on hoarding billions of U$D and the poor they hoodwink with the promise of an afterlife and accusing me of robbing Uruguay. Stupid devil.
Cracken
Don't give us any more bullshit about feminism making hysterical ninnies like you equal to men. If that were the case why this:
”The Women's Empowerment Principles (WEPs) are a joint initiative between UN Women ... businesses a set of practical guidelines to empower women in the workplace. ... internationally in 2010 and we launched them in the UK in April 2012.”
Source (not that YOU will click on it):
http://unwomenuk.org/corporate/womens-empowerment-principles
I have known some very powerful and capable women during my career, you fall lamentably short of the necessary intellect and education in real life situations at the highest level.
Pathetic pair.
@18 You and your silly name-calling. You don't know me at all but the way you hang your prejudices on me because I am a successful woman says so much about you. The jealousy you display is laughable. Unlike you, I don't reveal personal details online so all you are doing is revealing more about your pathetic short-comings.
Jul 21st, 2016 - 08:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are one of life's failures. So full of hatred and bitterness at a wasted life. Sad. I mean, if you had any family and friends that cared about you you wouldn't be living out your life isolated from them in Uruguay.
Another mill would require even more land put under mono-culture tree plantations. It is just talk at this point I suppose.
Jul 21st, 2016 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No I dont think so bush. The key issue is the infrastructure.
Jul 22nd, 2016 - 04:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0@18 ChrisR
Jul 22nd, 2016 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0“a deluded RC prisoner”? This statement is the most risible of your atheist accusations! It means nothing as it is only the opinion of an uninformed individual.
@ 22 gordo1
Jul 22nd, 2016 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0So explain the Y chromosome for me then?
P.S. Why the two tags, are you hiding something?
@23 ChrisR
Jul 22nd, 2016 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Just what does genetic genealogy have to do with you or me? If you really want to know something about the Y chromosome I suggest you go yo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup
As you seem to have even more time than I do to deal with trivial matters - enjoy!
@ 20 bushpilot
Jul 22nd, 2016 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Make a change for trees to be planted in S. America. I wonder what species they will go for.
The fact the first mill is there, is quite a step forward for that industry. Traditionally S. American wood was no good for papermaking, it took quite some development for them to be able to use it in the first place.
@ 24 gordo1
Jul 22nd, 2016 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Why the two tags, are you hiding something?”
Still no answer! Are you the troll or is gordo01 the troll? It seems I was correct to question whether there are two of you.
I thought as a RC prisoner you would have jumped at the myth of the virgin birth to defend how Mary could have developed an XY chromosome foetus when she only had XX chromosomes available?
The holy spook was not a corporal body so where did the male sperm (necessary to provide the Y version) come from? The milkman?
The thought at the time as to how male or female children were produced hung on the temperature of the sperm, so even those persons contemporarily knew sperm was vital.
I suppose they thought that the falsehood of the virgin birth would not be questioned and NEVER could the 'truth' be doubted, surely?
It's up there with the RCC selling tickets to the wealthy to reduce the time they have to remain in Perdition. Great scam that one!
So you failed that one.
@26 It is not literal you half-wit. Why come on here and display your ignorance and limited intelligence?
Jul 22nd, 2016 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(Though it does give me a good laugh)
@ 26 ChrisR
Jul 22nd, 2016 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now you ARE showing how misinformed you are! If that is what you think that in this day and age those events are taken literally then you are more of a moron than you have appeared to be up to now. What a silly billy!
By the way - will you be present at any of the forthcoming events of the British Society in Uruguay? I understand you are a member, are you not?
@21, 25
Jul 22nd, 2016 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Those pulp mills cost a ton of money. They run 24-7. It is yet another cost to shut them down, so they usually only do that for scheduled maintenance once or twice a year I think.
They have to be fed with raw material 24-7. But there is this quote from the article:
“We have consistently increased our plantation base in Uruguay and we are well-prepared to supply the wood for the third pulp mill in Uruguay.”
So, perhaps the limiting factor wouldn't be the raw material, but rather, dependable infrastructure like redpoll said. But I still wonder if another mill would ultimately encourage the establishment of more tree plantations, and then more pulp mills.
Chris R., you're a businessperson. Do you think Uruguay could dependably support another pulp mill if it already is supporting two?
Copy these co-ordinates into Google Maps, or even better Google Earth, if you have it.
33° 7'4.63”S 58°15'25.24”W
http://www.upmpulp.com/about-upm-pulp/pulp-mills/fray-bentos-mill/Pages/Default.aspx
@29 Leaving in abeyance some of the gross errors of the the govt for the present, lets look at what has gone more or less right.
Jul 23rd, 2016 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Twenty five years ago exports of forestry products from Uruguay were zero. Today there are two pulp mills as well as other related industries up and running which contribute a major part of our export income. In spite of this and also the boom in arable farming meat exports have remained steady and international prices per ton have increased owing to sensible agricultural policies promoted by the relevant government department.
What was not foreseen was the strain that would be placed on the infrastructure. A rail system in complete dilapidation and even the main highways inadequate to cope with the heavy timber traffic. It is estimated that 8 million tons of raw timber are transported yearly to the pulp mills, exclusively by road. Thats around 200,000 loaded trucks. For the average journey of 200 kms this road transport cost per ton is the same a shipping costs by sea to China.
Using multimodal road/rail shipping this traffic would need about ten trains per day.
Apart from this is the improvement costs of the port facilities in Montevideo which includes increasing the depth of the dredged channels by a further three meters and probably a new timber terminal.
As regards a new plant at Paso de los Toros in the centre of the country judging by the share prices of UPM on the Helsinki stock exchange the investors seem to quite like the idea. The town has adequate water resources and is the main rail hub.There are sufficient primary timber resources fairly close by already.
Is the projected expenditure of 1 billion on infrastructure enough? Probably not and in any case the returns on such investment would have to be diligently investigated.
An investment in rail would have other benefits, particularly in grains transport which also goes on the roads at present.
Perhaps I am being over simplistic and Ive run out of space anyway.
@29&30
Jul 23rd, 2016 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Right, so we are talking about a “pulp” rather than a “Paper” mill.
The pulp then being used elsewhere to make paper, no wonder they run 24/7 that is a low margin, big volume business.
@ 29 bushpilot
Jul 23rd, 2016 - 07:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Chris R., you're a businessperson. Do you think Uruguay could dependably support another pulp mill if it already is supporting two?”
The last business I sold was my heavy truck transport operation, one contract of which was the transport of Uruguayo pulp which landed at the Northfleet plant of Kimberley Clark (51deg26'48.24”N / 0deg20'21.34E) which was used for making many professional Kimberley Clark paper products.
If you look at the Google map reference you can see one of the pulp ships on the riverside near to the pulp cube storage (the big white squares).
I had a 44tonne curtainsider permanently hauling pulp cubes from Northfleet to the Kimberley Clark tissue plant at Barrow in Furness (54deg08'35.0“N / 3deg14'02”W) and then hauling the manufactured tissue back to Northfleet for conversion.
It was never ending and I was amazed at the demand, the restriction to production being the supply of suitable graded pulp.
So the question isn't whether Uruguay could support it but whether the present government would allow the labour to be used. We have a really unusual labour situation here: the unions and government tell the manufacturers how much labour they can use right from the construction through to final production and 'problems' in this ridiculous system caused serious trouble with the latest mill.
Yet still the mill owners want to develop their business here and I can only hope that the present president does all he can to ensure the mill is built though redpoll has it spot on regarding the logistics problems which must never be underestimated.
The roads themselves are not fit to carry large volumes of heavy trucks, indeed, on the showpiece 'Interberlania or IB' the nearest thing to a motorway in this country from Montevideo to Punta Del Este heavy trucks are banned! They have to travel specified roads which are nothing other than concrete slabs under constant repair.
I am very hopeful this mill happens, it will force the issues.
@31 Point taken but there is some diversification. Weyerheuser an American timber mill exports considerable quantities of processed timber for the building industry and plans two more plants. No paper mills in Uruguay which is perhaps a plus environmentally.
Jul 23rd, 2016 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ 31 Pugol-H
Jul 24th, 2016 - 11:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The pulp then being used elsewhere to make paper, no wonder they run 24/7 that is a low margin, big volume business.”
Kimberley Clark have a very exacting specification for their eucalyptus pulp which the Uruguayo first mill complies with (the second mill came on stream after I retired here but I am confident the same applies).
Cubes are unloaded at Northfleet and quarantined until the laboratory has ensured they do comply before they can be released for transportation. When you are manufacturing high quality toilet tissue products it is essential to have the best pulp.
Newsprint 'pulp' is much looser and that is a cut price medium and caused me to stop offering transport to the industry, I just couldn't make it pay once The Cunt Brown © Jeremy Clarkson 2010 crashed the economy bailing out his voters employed by Northern Rock.
The problem that Uruguay does face is the fact that the workforce is not educated to UK standards, not even close. The teachers are stymied every year by the constant changes enforced upon them without consultation by the so called education minister. The last one was in fact a doctor but knew nothing about education other than she must have read a few books.
It is very frustrating for me to see the bright students stumbling when they get to university: they hit a brick wall in the first year due to the massive difference in their actual knowledge over what they need. I help as much as I can, last year I had three students taking economics pre101 for a few weeks to get them settled in. They do need to speak English or Americano for it to work. I am hopeful that a young man who is to study production engineering will be coming along before he starts the year: he is presently in London for a few weeks polishing up his English, his mother would have nothing to do with 'Americano'!
These new high technology plants need better educated people.
Could supply Venezuala with badly needed toilet paper?
Jul 24th, 2016 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0Has Boris withdrawn Mercopress funding, the site seems to have ground to a halt?
@35 Not even a squitter of a hope of that Lucan until those bums pay us for what they owe for dairy products.
Jul 24th, 2016 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Would the TP shortage perhaps be alleviated by settling for rolls made from the “lesser quality” pulp? Could Venezuela buy the rejected pulp and make their own TP? Does “lesser quality pulp” still have splinters in it?
Jul 24th, 2016 - 07:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Chris, thanks for those coordinates! That is interesting.
Speaking of trains and trucks for transporting raw logs, when I lived in the Pacific Northwest, there was a lot of logging. I'd see a half mile of flat cars each loaded to the top with raw logs. I just loved seeing that!
Mostly though the logs were run to the mills by trucks on highways. Those roads had a double depression in them their whole length from the weight of those logging trucks. Sometimes those roads were beat up pretty bad!
Have you all in Uruguay driven along some beat up sections of road there due to logging traffic that down right scared you?
But still, it seems like an exciting opportunity for the economy of Uruguay. Do Uruguay's large neighbors produce pulp also? I think Argentina does not, judging from their protests. But Brazil?
@ 37 bushpilot
Jul 25th, 2016 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Could Venezuela buy the rejected pulp and make their own TP? Does “lesser quality pulp” still have splinters in it?”
There are 'splinters' in even the most soft paper tissue!
Paper tissue should never be used to clean spectacles because over time the lenses (glass or plastic) will show very small scratches rendering the lenses scrap due to the dispersal of incident light!
redpoll is the guy who knows more than I do regarding Uruguay and competition in the pulp and sawn / planed wood export market.
“But still, it seems like an exciting opportunity for the economy of Uruguay.”
Correct!
@33 redp0ll
Jul 25th, 2016 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Paper mills are not at all bad environmentally speaking, once you take out the energy used to turn something from 97% water to 3% water. You use large volumes of wood pulp and china clay, natural substances to start with.
Producing the pulp involves bleaching using chemistry. Tech guy in our labs in Scandinavia did part of his degree in this, apparently then if you didn’t recover your chemistry used, you didn’t make any money.
@34 ChrisR
That’s the most positive I have ever read from you about Uruguay, shows how you care, probably why you get so wound.
Would it not be possible to bring in timber ect by the river, pulp out the same way?
@39 Some timber is shipped to the mills down the Uruguay river and all pulp goes out by sea.
Jul 25th, 2016 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately river traffic is controlled by a bi-nacional commissión (CARU), dominated by Argentina.which stymies any joint effort to improve navigation Uruguayan ports of which the prime example the maintenance of depth in the Martin Garcia channel. They also try and do restrict barge traffic from Paraguay for trans shipment at Uruguayan ports down the Parana river and call into question the competence of the professional Paraguayan river captains as yet another obfustication.
@ 39 Pugol-H
Jul 25th, 2016 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Would it not be possible to bring in timber ect by the river, pulp out the same way?”
The present two mills already load the pulp cube ship direct off the quay in the river and deliver it direct to the quay in Northfleet as I showed above.
Not too sure about the timber to be used for pulping and indeed the pulp cubes themselves in the third, yet to be approved and built mill because I do not have personal knowledge of the rivers in the chosen area. I am sure though that lorries are still needed for pick up at the forest. These are almost exclusively a wagon and drag combination, the trailer being about 10 tonnes fully loaded and the wagon about 18 tonnes.
@ 37 bushpilot
The reason why roads where you are show two tracks is because the operators grossly overload their trucks. Check out Youtube!
One operator took issue with me asking why he thought he could load it up to 80 tonnes gross and then run it on the highway for 10 miles. His answer was astounding: he ran about 20 miles on logging tracks (not public) and he always drove carefully on the public ones! He did of course make twice the money doing that compared to running legally.
That would result in a prison sentence in the UK, quite rightly too.
“Have you all in Uruguay driven along some beat up sections of road there due to logging traffic that down right scared you?”
You must realize that the normal roads in Uruguay are simply tarmac laid on top of the sand that usually forms the substrate, there is no overburden that I have seen to remove first. The thickness of the road varies between 1 inch and 2 inches and the road from Maldonado to Minas does get very damaged during logging time but never to the point where you feel at risk, even on my big motorbike.
@41 If you want an example of bad roads the route 30 takes the biscuit. Most long distance buses are punctual to the minute but the bus Artigas Montevideo always arrives 75 minutes late here due to the appalling state of the “highway” between Aritgas and Tacuarembó, a distance of 280 kms
Jul 25th, 2016 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 041
Jul 25th, 2016 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Huh...35 ton in Scotland....
Difficult with Pulp because it's not saw logs...it's all the shite..hence it's only worthy for pulp....
Even 3 metre chip is bigger than pulp which is typically 2 metres, so you need an awful lot to weigh 35 ton, the lorries look overloaded, but they are not by weight and pulp timber loses weight quickly in the sun because it is narrow, down to about 75 mm.
It has to move quickly or it soon becomes uneconomical to transport, the lorries are paid by weight not volume...
@40 redp0ll
Jul 26th, 2016 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You guys are going to have to find a way round the Argys, sad fact is life is never going to be easy while you have to deal with them.
@43 McTwat
Showing your complete ignorance of the subject, once again, eh Yoicey.
As all paper is made from pulp it’s bought from a fairly tight to a very exacting specification, depending on what type of paper you’re making.
Not sure what you mean by “all the shite”, but if the pulp aint what it says on the tin, and this is checked, it doesn’t get into the paper mill, because it won’t work in the paper mill, and this gets noticed.
In fact, VERY EXPENSIVE, weponised SHIT impact air circulation device big time, if that is ever allowed to happen.
Now go have a look at a banknote, if you have any that is, see how much “shite” you can see in there?
What a fcuking idiot...pulp is made from the narrow ends of trees the saw logs are used for construction etc...
Jul 26th, 2016 - 11:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What a complete bozo....
Oh my....hahahaha...
Oh no...there's always one....
@ 44 Pugol-H
Jul 27th, 2016 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0I think the pulp expert is getting confused with the Forest Products Plc sawmill here: 55deg 09' 21.00” N / 3deg 22' 50.12 W.
They convert rough logs into garden fences, panels, etc with a massive by-product of 'bark chippings' that are spread over bare ground to slow weed growth.
He probably thinks the chippings are 'pulp'. He has obviously never seen a true pulp cube used in high end rolls for conversion to other products.
But what can you expect?
@McThickeyThicko
Jul 27th, 2016 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So, no paper money to look at then eh eh, McSubsidyMonkey!!!!!!??????
Ok try this, cut and paste into Google Earth these co-ordinates the nice Mr @ redp0ll has kindly given us. Ok so far.
33° 7'4.63”S 58°15'25.24”W
At the bottom end of the site are several large piles of tree trunks, awaiting processing the first stage of which is, incidentally, removing the bark from the trunks.
Please tell us all, where is the “narrow ends” you refer to???
You can make pulp from branch wood if you can be bothered to trim transport and skin them. As you can see these boys don’t piss ball around with twigs and matchsticks.
Which is what you would expect from a plant producing 36,600T of pulp a day.
http://www.upmpulp.com/about-upm-pulp/pulp-mills/fray-bentos-mill/Pages/Default.aspx
Pulp, which like you, is considerably McDenser than the wood which was used to make it.
@ 46 ChrisR
Clearly no idea of what we were actually talking about, as per usual with him.
McBilly NoMates.
I don't know which of you is the most stupid....
Jul 27th, 2016 - 11:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let's read some facts...
“The rest of this mature tree, labeled Pulpwood, Fuelwood & Other Products, is too small in diameter to make lumber. Once the tree has been harvested for large-diameter material, the rest of the tree can be used to make a wide range of products that also continue to store carbon into the future, such as OSB and a variety of pulp and paper products, including cardboard boxes and other packaging materials that can be recycled. This section of the tree can also be chipped for domestic electricity generation or dried and formed into wood pellets for overseas electricity markets.”
http://www.forest2market.com/blog/dispelling-the-whole-tree-myth-how-a-harvested-tree-is-used
Would ya'll like a dozen more sources that will back up what I say...
From different countries perhaps...?
If you see big logs going for pulp they must be light from rapid heat loss or shite...
It all gets chipped to make pulp...
Good logs are never wasted on Pulp
As usual, I'm all over you...Fcukwits....
@48 Yes I read the article. Some good points but interlaced with journalistic half truths about what happens in Alabama which is not Uruguay.
Jul 28th, 2016 - 04:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0As one of the pioneers of forestry in this country I have planted almost 750,000 trees over the years for commercial forestry. How many have you planted? As a result I have managed to preserve nearly 400 hectares of native woodland on a less stressful cattle environment because thats the way I care for the land I farm.
A year or two back I was touring the Isle of Skye and the devastation I saw on the post logging forestry in that beautiful landscape made me weep. If I did that here I would end up behind bars here and rightly so.
So rather than sitting in dismal Dunoon and firing off half baked opinions about the forestry industry get out there and learn a bit about the industry, or even plant a tree or two.
Another one comes back with opinions and not facts....
Jul 28th, 2016 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0Post logging is not devastation at all...
The stumps are left in the ground, but they will rot and fertilise the ground for the next batch of trees...
They don't plant straight away to minimise infection from old stumps to new trees....sometimes spray with pig piss...
It can also look a mess after the plough has been in putting all the furrows in....
You obviously don't understand what you are seeing...spruce grows fast, a fews years and it will look fine...
Cry baby....
Logging and forestry principles are the same everywhere....standardised by the Northern European Countries....Sweden, Norway, Finland....
Which also own the Pulp Mill in Uruguay...
...but yeah I'm sure they must do things differently there...
not....
“Opinions not facts...” ? Well that post not only shows your ignorance of the practicalities of good forestry management but you cant even get your “facts” right.
Jul 28th, 2016 - 03:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ha...little do you know...
Jul 28th, 2016 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have invested in forestry in the past....
There is hardly anything that I don't know about it....
I can tell you what is the best Forwarder, the best Harvester-Proceesor even a breakdown of how much each body gets paid from the Owners/Growers the contractors, the machinery operators, the transport...how much it will usually go per cubic metre at auction, even what the lowly brasher would get paid for preparing the trees for the processor...
All the different properties of the trees...Norway, Sitka, European Larch, Jap hybrid Larch, Douglas...in fact all of them.
I know exactly what goes for Saw logs, Pulp or Chip....
Where money is involved I make a business of knowing everything about it....
Give up whilst you are behind....
@McDimWit
Jul 28th, 2016 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ahhhh the penny drops, finally realised what we are talking about eh Voicey!!!
Yes, wood pulp for papermaking!!!!!!!!!
Made a right Tit of yourself there eh, prattling on about “woodchips”.
Here just to finish off with:
http://www.upmpulpmill.com/en/index.html
Wood handling, right of the picture shows bundles of whole tree trunks being fed into the processing plant.
And!!!!!!
“The bark of the trees is used for bioenergy production at the mill.”
“Besides pulp, Fray Bentos mill generates electricity which is sold to the national grid.
The mill generates 10% of the Uruguayan electricity supply.”
Similar story at all their production plants.
http://www.upmpulpmill.com/en/index.html
Told you, these boys don’t pissball around, they use whole tree trunks by the plantation load, no sawmills or planks in the production anywhere.
As I said, “Showing your complete ignorance of the subject, once again, eh Yoicey.”
You stupid fcuk...
Jul 28th, 2016 - 11:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The terminology for the designated parts of the tree...are Saw Logs...Pulp...Chip
Saw logs...Construction..furniture etc
Pulp...Paper-making cardboard etc
Chip...Chipboard, Particleboard, OSB
They are all logs you moron, just different diameter and lengths...
Pulp and chip are below 150mm dis....
BTW...Pulp logs are converted into chips as part of the pulp process...
I always knew you knew fcuk all...
Keep Googling...it's obvious you need to....
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