MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Macri preparing a major show to the world's business elite his vision of a modern Argentina
Argentina is organizing a major business and investment forum next month, September 12/15, in Buenos Aires and more than 1,500 world business leaders and representatives of government and economic institutions are scheduled to attend the event, probably the largest in recent times in Latin America. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWhat do you say when they ask you about all those K's waiting in the wings?
Aug 16th, 2016 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Rg's lust for nationalization remains unsatisfied.
Actually, all the supposed “advantages” of Argentina are what have been, are, and will be her eternal doom.
Aug 17th, 2016 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina is trapped in the most colossal of “middle income traps”:
It is too poor to compete in raw direct innovation with the rich nations, too poor to throw massive subsidies to the most vulnerable sectors.
It is also too rich to compete directly with assembly manufacturing for export oriented growth, too rich for low-wage investment.
So can't subsidize agriculture, can't develop tech products, can't export mass manufactures, and can't mass hire for low-wage jobs.
Argentina has no means of sustained growth because the current global economic system that dominates only knows how to grow economies when they are dirt poor (and almost always with dicatorships commanding the leadership for some time, see Asia, Chile, etc), or when they are already very wealthy (through R&D or just interest on investment).
The current economic capitalist system completely has no answer whatsoeer for a country like Argentina on and how to grow. None. So it will all fail again no matter how pretty the summits are.
Macri's chances could all be done at the next election if the 15M Peronists have their way.
Aug 17th, 2016 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Then what? Back to the old ways.
Macri needs to have a convincing win before anybody will risk serious money, unless they are brain dead.
Continuity is the gold standard for investment, Argentina are still on the shit one.
I agree with you Chris. He needs a major win that will impact the people and soon. Hints of Senator Kirchner? The one thing in his favor is time, the one thing working against him is time. 3 1/2 years to go is more than these past 7 months but still relatively short in terms of changing 70 years of head up your ass economic policies.
Aug 17th, 2016 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Wouldn't be nice if an Argentine government were to attract large long-term investments in R&D, high-tech and renewable forms of energy.
Aug 17th, 2016 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Unfortunately, Capi is right in many of his points at #2; Argentina is not the typical low-wage, underdeveloped country where large corporations would come seeking larger profit margins. However, I do believe the country can find its place in the world--it just needs to find its niche and use its many comparative advantages.
Chris is right at #3; investors will be looking at stability provided by support for the Macri administration proposed changes, one of the major ones being clumsily implemented (see Tarifazo).
Macri had at some point hinted at being a “desarrollista,” an ambitious model under which president Arturo Frondizi became president in 1958.
Frondizi's “Developmentalism” encouraged increased foreign investment in heavy industry to make the country self-sufficient in oil production, with increased public spending supporting diversified business including automobile production and energy infrastructure. (Wiki).
However, the backward Argentina oligarchy was, as usual, having none of that: Frondizi and was deposed by a military coup in 1962. Fair or not fair, current president Mauricio Macri is not giving any signs of being remotely “desarrollista” so far. Allowing foreign capitals to come and go as they please will only make the situation worse by encouraging speculation, further draw of resources and increase in foreign debt.
Rg's has no advantages.
Aug 17th, 2016 - 08:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Poor productivity.
Poor infrastructure.
Poor local markets.
Excessive regulation.
Political and economic instability.
World class corruption.
Money chases return not risk.
#6 chronic
Aug 17th, 2016 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Good!
Stay away. Argentina does not need you.
Use your extremely valuable time to comment on something else.
Argentina does not care about what you think.
Even better--forget about Argentina so that you can have a more relaxed life.
MP comments section may even improve as a result!
All very negative comments about Argentina's future. It is true that many Argentines are coasting on past glories of many decades ago. They certainly think they are worth more than they are and too good to work - well not all but some.
Aug 18th, 2016 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0I feel very differently about Argentina. It has untapped resources and an untapped work force. It is a beautiful country. With the right attitude it could certainly be more prosperous and more stable. To do that they need to change the indoctrination of the last generations and get rid of populism.
Macri has probably another year of putting in place some good measures before he needs to start campaigning for the next election. At that point he will have to have shown some improvements and convince people he is on the right path. I expect he will at that point start appeasing the people hardest hit by his changes.
What would help his campaign enormously is if they can reveal the mass fraud and criminality of the Kirchners.
“They certainly think they are worth more than they are”
Aug 18th, 2016 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Too many British schools around the area, unfortunately.
@9 That doesn't make much sense. Did you attend a British school?
Aug 18th, 2016 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, the rg work force is indeed well rested.
Aug 18th, 2016 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So if they have a comparative advantage in some small way perhaps this it.
#8 ElaineB
Aug 18th, 2016 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0A sensible posting and an expression of desire for a better destiny for Argentina that is a refreshing change among so many postings demeaning to the whole country.
I can line up myself behind the statement ”With the right attitude (Argentina) could certainly be more prosperous and more stable.“
I will, however, disagree with the idea that something that much vilified ”populism“ is at the root of all that is bad in Argentina.
It escapes to many that during Argentina's ”glorious” years, when loads of money ingressed thanks to high valued commodities that the country was able to export using its natural advantage, the benefits of such bonanza were appropriated by an extremely narrow sector of Argentines, those who indulged in extravagant parties in New York and Paris and became a symbol of the country's wealth.
When Juan Peron, in the late 1940s, proposed sharing a small part of their income with the rest of the population, the ultra wealthy became apoplectic. The level of hate deplied by people used to have armies of domestic personal at home and scores of rural workers at their expansive estancias is difficult to describe--it ended up fueling the 1955 bloody coup.
For observers located in developed capitalist countries is hard to comprehend the situation of those years because a large part of the economic relationships were actually pre-capitalist, based on semi-feudal parameters.
Employers furiously reacted to Peron's legislation that, for the first time, introduced labour rights for domestic employees and rural workers. Employers were scandalized at the thought of their workers having rights and receiving an education.
However, Peron was not pursuing Socialism or Communism. On the contrary, he tried to convince the CEOs that a more modern and stable Capitalist country in which workers would be better fed and educated was the best bet against social revolution.
They never understood the idea.
@12 You are failing to acknowledge that at the time of the 'glorious' years it was typical in countries for the the wealth to be held by the few. The same occurred in the U.S. I mention that because at the time of Argentina's peak it was a matter of debate which of the two would become the most prosperous.
Aug 18th, 2016 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina took the wrong path then and still pay the price now. Imagine how they could have been if they had not adopted the populism of the fascist Peron?
I have always expressed a great fondness for Argentina and my criticism has been of the Kirchner government. More particularly CFK. I have witnessed her criminal activities and the extreme poverty that exists there. You cannot imagine the frustration of seeing the poor and ignorant putting all there hopes in someone who robbed them blind.
Ohhhhhhhhh!
Aug 18th, 2016 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Populism isn't the root of all that's evil in rg - it's the character and culture of the rg.
Populism is just a side effect that complicates the treatment of the disease.
Macri (and Argentina) has many challenges to overcome but the main challenge is to change the average argentinean mentality, that peronista that loves to go against the world and believes in effortless solutions to the situation that the country is in.
Aug 20th, 2016 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0The investment will come but most likely will be expensive and with a short term view because of the political situation. Peronistas and their antiquated and erroneous theories need to be eradicated from the Argentine psyche for long term investment to come. A forum is a step in the right direction, but putting in jail the previous administration is paramount for the country to convince the world that this time is for real and there is no going back.
#13 ElaineB
Aug 20th, 2016 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We may disagree on many things, but I do respect the fact that you express positive feelings for the Argentines in general and wish them well. We do share that desire.
You are right in that at some point both the U.S. and Argentina shared similar prospects.
The ways of the dominant classes in both countries, however, diverged deeply.
Just as an example, the land in the U.S. was distributed to those willing to work put it to production. In Argentina, the most productive lands were appropriated by a small number of families who became disproportionately wealthy and powerful, keeping the production at semi-feudal levels, whereas in the U.S. the model took a dynamic capitalist approach.
As a result, the dominant class in Argentina developed as a deeply backward class, opposed to the constant modernization and innovation that was at the root of the economic success of the U.S.
In practical terms, if you owe 1,000 hectares (2,500 acres) you want that land to produce its maximum--but if you owe 100,000 Ha, you do not care much; you are making lots of dough no matter what, and you have an army of servants and rural workers who live there, purchase goods from you and call you “patroncito.”
Why the heck would you want to change that? Why would you agree with the idea that the land should be for those who make it productive?
IBT:
Aug 21st, 2016 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Argentina's economy: Following the Kirchner illusion, Macri's bitter truth is the only cure. Foreign investors should closely watch how Argentina resolves its domestic problems.”
Foreign investors are indeed watching. From a considerable and appropriately cautious distance.
Wow.
Aug 22nd, 2016 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0International Business Times has issued a pronouncement: “Macri's bitter truth is the only cure.”
The magazine makes a harsh assessment of the Nestor Kirchner and Cristina Fernandez governments, casually noting the implementation of measures to support families such as “a monthly stipend for heads of households who did not have a job and who had children aged up to 18 years, and those not in a condition to work.”
Fast forward to IBT description of the Macri government and his recent economic measures:
“...a lot of the reforms are proving unpopular, with the public finding it difficult to adjust to them.”
Tighening the collective belt difficult?
Could it be that the Macri project, which IBT emphasizes, is to build “trust with the international investors” would, somehow, exclude improvement of the situation of the citizens at large?
Oh, IBT has taken that into account--it reassures us that all Argentine citizens need is PATIENCE.
Indeed: “It will take time, maybe years, for the positive impact to be felt by ordinary Argentines.” I am surprised they did not add “even decades” too.
This reminds me the story of the poor peasant who deviced a strategy to save food. He gave a bit less each day to his donkey believing the jackass would get used to it.
He later told friends the experiment was working well. However, he said, ”just when he (the ass) was getting used to it, he died!”
@18 “Could it be that the Macri project, which IBT emphasizes, is to build “trust with the international investors” would, somehow, exclude improvement of the situation of the citizens at large?”
Aug 22nd, 2016 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it would exclude improvement for gnocchis. The problem with the Ks was that any apparent improvement was never sustainable so if she was still in power and continued with the same policies then you'd be going in the same direction as Venezuela. By reversing these crazy policies Macri should be able to provide sustainable improvement once he's dug you all out of the hole CFK dug for you. It took decades to dig the hole so it seems reasonable that it will also take some time to reverse the process.
”...just when he (the ass) was getting used to it, he died!”
In your analogy are you saying that the population of Argentina are jackasses? That's a bit harsh, even for you!
To push your analogy further, let us say that the jackass would cost $5 to feed each day and produces $8 per day = $3 profit. As you say, if the peasant fed him less, the peasant would make more than $3 per day for a while but it would be unsustainable if he went too far in that direction.
Let's say the peasant decides he wants his ass to be happy and not walk off to the next farm so he feeds him churipans each day and this costs him $10 per day. The ass is happy but the peasant has to go to the bank to borrow $2 per day. He keeps doing this because he is desperate to keep the ass happy and 12 years later he owes the bank $8,760 + interest.
Mr. Macri comes along and suggests that he stops feeding the ass churipans, pays $5 for the food to keep it alive and productive and pays the bank back $2 a day and the peasant will still have $1 per day profit. The peasant has a hissy fit and complain that Mr. Macri is unreasonable since he is now only making $1 a day when he used to make $3. How bad of that Macri guy and the bank and the Falklands and the USA and reality and everyone else boo hoo!!!
#19 Zaphod
Aug 22nd, 2016 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All the numbers in the economy, nine months after Macri took over, show a worsening of the situation, at a rythme no other government in Argentina has ever performed--not even the De La Rua Alliance government that led the country to its catastrophic default of 2001.
I am telling you, Macri is starving the donkey. Only, the Argentines are not donkeys and won't let this go forever. The signs are telling.
The conundrum for Macri is now how to keep implementing the huge transfer of resources from the majority of the people to the elite while keeping people quiet. Besides the Menem government, most experiments of the type Macri is attempting were done under dictatorships. In Argentina, this is going to be the big topic developing in the coming months.
In Argentina, the silly asses do $4 worth of work and expect to be paid $20 for it. Along with a handsome benefits package, generous holidays, early retirement, and the expectation to receive full salary whilst out of strike, which is frequently.
Aug 23rd, 2016 - 12:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0@20 “All the numbers in the economy, nine months after Macri took over, show a worsening of the situation...”
Aug 23rd, 2016 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0All? Really? Inflation is reducing. So, clearly not “all”.
“I am telling you, Macri is starving the donkey. Only, the Argentines are not donkeys and won't let this go forever. The signs are telling.”
As MercoPress reported recently, Macris' approval is consistently better than CFK's. The signs are indeed telling.
Apart from boosting spending for state universities by 500 million pesos, growing the economy by 0.5%, helping Siemens announce the intention to provide us with 6,000 jobs, releasing the dollar clamp, starting the process of paying off our international debts which was a hole dug ever deeper for him by the previous administration's refusal to comply with their contractual obligations, stopping INDEC from lying about how bad we were doing, paying the pensioners, reducing inflation, reducing the number of power cuts, announcing a US$1.4bn investment in Patagonia, allowing Argentine farmers to export an extra 60%, allowing the “Libertad” to sail to foreign ports without fear of being impounded and stopping the sell-off of Argentina to China what did Macri ever do for us?
“The conundrum for Macri is now how to keep implementing the huge transfer of resources from the majority of the people to the elite while keeping people quiet.”
Actually that is what CFK did. She and her elite became very rich indeed. I don't believe that Macri is stealing from the people.
#22 Zaphod
Aug 23rd, 2016 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As MercoPress reported recently, Macris' approval is consistently better than CFK's.”
Sure! That's one way of looking at things.
The Macri administration, however, cannot keep the pink glasses forever and would be smart to look at the following headlines:
18% Approval Drop in 8 Months for Argentine President Macri
“Argentine President Mauricio Macri’s approval rating has plummeted since he first assumed office...the most dramatic fall coming from lower-income regions, which have most severely felt the consequences of his economic policy.”
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/18-Approval-Drop-in-8-Months-for-Argentine-President-Macri-20160626-0027.html
And:
Poverty Increases by 5% in Argentina Under Mauricio Macri
”The...alarming rise in poverty to the policies enacted by President Macri (including) controversial measures including mass layoffs of public sector workers as well as the removal of government subsidies on public services such as electricity, transportation, water and gas.”
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/18-Approval-Drop-in-8-Months-for-Argentine-President-Macri-20160626-0027.html
Telesur. The Pravda of Latin America. So extreme-leftist that Argentina, one of founding members of Telesur, finally removed the subsidies it was providing. Telesur is pretty much the clarion of Venezuela's Maduro and the Cuban government. Telesur's mendacity is on a par with that of the Kirchners.
Aug 23rd, 2016 - 09:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Mass layoffs”....... of dead-wood, nonproductive, redundant, no-show-but-payrolled 'workers' -- and the thousands that CFK put on the public teat to give the appearance of lower unemployment but who actually performed no useful tasks under than to promote Kirchnerist lies and to empty the national treasury in sadistic preparation for the inconvenience of the incoming government.
In Peronist Argentina, jobs are not for the purpose of producing wealth, goods, or services, but instead to be manipulated by the government of the day, as gifts to its political punteros and lapdogs, and to give the otherwise unemployable and unproductive something to swell their egos.
#24 Marti
Aug 24th, 2016 - 04:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Telesur. The Pravda of Latin America.”
Unfortunately for Macri's unofficial spokesperson, Telesur alias Pravda quoted Poliarquia, a solid Argentine consultant whose opinion polls are regularly quoted by major media outlets in Argentina and Latin America.
Follow Marti's usual lies about Kirchnerism that ignore that the middle class doubled in size during the Won Decade, that an abrupt fall in poverty rates and unemployment took place in the same period, consumption increased strenghtening the domestic sector with sharp increase in the number and activity of small and medium size enterprises.
It is interesting to note the feverish level of activity of some MP commentators that appears to intensify as the Macri administration faces increasing difficults .
Their activity spurs mirror that of media outlets such as Clarin, where readers must sort through daily doses of front page stories about the alleged corruption of Lázaro Baez, Juan José López and various members of the Kirchner family. The juicy stuff is hidden, low and small.
Says Marti: “...the thousands that CFK put on the public teat...in sadistic preparation for the inconvenience of the incoming government.”
In Clarín today:
Unemployment in Argentina reached 9,3 por ciento at the end of the second trimestre according to Indec numbers published today.
During the same period in 2015, unemployment was 6,6 por ciento.
AND:
Today, fruit producers in Río Negro and Neuquén gave away 10 tonnes of apples and pears in Plaza de Mayo, in protest for the low prices they receive--3 pesos per kilo of apples that are sold to consumers for 28 pesos. For pears that are sold for 23 pesos, producers get 2 pesos.
Producers said exporters benefit from lower export taxes and a 7 per cent reimbursement if the ships are loaded in patagonian ports.
There can be no doubt: Kirchnerists are infiltrating Clarín. Quick Mr. Magnetto, Marti and Kanye's help is urgently required!
@23 “18% Approval Drop in 8 Months for Argentine President Macri”
Aug 24th, 2016 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe so, but his approval is still 2xCFK's according to http://en.mercopress.com/2016/08/08/argentines-continue-to-support-macri-despite-disappointment-with-the-economy
@25 “Unemployment in Argentina reached 9,3 por ciento at the end of the second trimestre according to Indec numbers published today.
During the same period in 2015, unemployment was 6,6 por ciento. ”
You are comparing a reliable 9.3% with a dodgy 6.6%. Even if this is some indication of the truth and 2.7% of the population was gnoccis etc. I think you should be encouraged that this number is so low. The problem is that this 2.7% is very vocal.
#26 Zaphod
Aug 25th, 2016 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0New unemployment 2.7 per cent.
“...you should be encouraged that this number is so low,” Zaphod states.
Comparing the approval rates of a past president as compared with that of the president in charge in the last eight months is not relevant, Zaphod.
What matters now is the evolution of the current president's approval ratings. Why? Because those numbers will tell you how current measures are impacting the general population.
Focusing on the ñoquis is something at this point you only see in Mercopress' comments.
To believe 2.7 per cent of new unemployment can be attributed to ñoquis being fired is childish at best. People in Argentina see things for what they are because they see how far in the month they can cover for expenses--and that side of reality is not going well and that's the reason Macri's approval ratings don't stop falling.
#27 “Comparing the approval rates of a past president as compared with that of the president in charge in the last eight months is not relevant, Zaphod.”
Aug 25th, 2016 - 05:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is relevant to answering the question of who the population trust the most?
“What matters now is the evolution of the current president's approval ratings. Why? Because those numbers will tell you how current measures are impacting the general population.”
That also matters. Statistics provide answers to questions. It is a common error to decouple the question from the answer.
If the question is Do the population trust Macri more than CFK? the answer appears to be Yes, by about 2:1.
If the question is, Is Macri's approval increasing or decreasing? the answer seems to be It is going up and down each month so difficult to determine any trend yet with any confidence.
“To believe 2.7 per cent of new unemployment can be attributed to ñoquis being fired is childish at best.”
I'm sure it is a simplification, but it would fit with Macri's changes.
“People in Argentina see things for what they are because they see how far in the month they can cover for expenses--and that side of reality is not going well and that's the reason Macri's approval ratings don't stop falling”
But it went very badly under CFK with 40% inflation but now the inflation rate is reducing, so things are getting better which is why Macri's approval rating hasn't dropped to the levels of CFK.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!