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La Nacion attacked for publishing that La Sanmartiniana “is returning from Malvinas to Argentina”

Monday, August 22nd 2016 - 07:09 UTC
Full article 40 comments

Buenos Aires daily La Nación is in the midst of a controversy and has suffered a barrage of criticisms following its announcement that the yacht “La Sanmartiniana”, closely linked to Kirchnerism militant activities, “currently in the Malvinas Islands will return to Argentina”. Read full article

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  • Brit Bob

    Time to get real.

    The Falkland Islands have never legally belonged to Argentina:https://www.academia.edu/17799157/Falklands_-_Some_Relevant_International_Law

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 09:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    What a joke this has turned out to be. FALKLANDS will not let it leave port without a seaworthy certificate, so all repairs will have to be done in Stanley. First the bill for ALL towing and repairs will have to be paid upfront in U$S presumably and then a seaworthy certificate will be issued ( from whom I wonder ) The FALKLANDS Government agency. Fancy having the certs signed by the FIG ( God that will smart )

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 09:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Roger Lorton

    “ignoring facts” LOL

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Rufus

    @2 GolfCronie, I doubt the repair bill will be in USD, far better to have it in FKP. And when they've paid the towing bill, and the mooring fees and the repair bill (and I'd imagine there's a fee for a seaworthiness certificate?) I feel it only right and proper (given their proven record of frankly questionable seamanship) that they be escorted out of the Falkland Islands EEZ, just in case they need rescuing on short notice (I'm thinking of Clyde and Protegat sailing in formation with it).

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Alejomartinez

    Maybe now you need to make up stories to ”win (La Nación readers') hearts”? In any case, focus on Brexit as your golden dream to distort legal, historic and political facts will not be that easy in the future. You may have distorted facts recently but truth will always prevail. Come up to terms with reality and accept that solving a sovereignty dispute that exists and is widely acknowledged is the only sensible way forward.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Roger Lorton

    Truth WILL prevail Alejo ... the matter was settled in 1989. Argentina lost. There is now nothing to discuss on the issue of sovereignty.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 12:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    HA HA HA...peronists and catholic nacionalists have always been quite ridiculous. This is the best example...Enrique Massot, Think and other fascists now prefer no to post any comment about this incident.

    Peronist and catholic nacionalists not only ruined Argentina during the last 70 years but they are also absolutely unpresentable !!!

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • ChrisR

    I see some of the 15M Peronistas have come out to play!

    You just have to laugh at the dumb bastards.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo01

    @5 Alejomartinez

    El único foro para resolver el problema de la soberanía de las Falklands/Malvinas es la Corte Internacional de la Justicia. El reclamo argentino es nada mas que cuentos de hadas, mentiras y versiones erróneas de eventos históricos.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    As if we needed more reasons to be reminded that Argentina cannot be considered a serious country.

    @9 “cuentos de hadas” ja ja . .. tenés razón. País juguete.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 02:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    #7 pgerman
    You may think it's smart to use the term “fascist” to tarnish the reputation of those who do not agree with you. You have been doing the same thing for quite sometime. It's not funny and I ask you to stop.
    I strongly deny having, now or in the past, anyting to do with fascism in general or the fascist ideology--an ideology I despise.
    You are using an open forum to, anonimously, spread your calumny about someone who is posting his opinions in the open, with his real name.
    MP allows you to post using a nickname and expects you and other readers to use this forum responsibly. Please read again MP Comments policy above.
    I am open to civilized discussion of ideas of any sort but reject insult, name calling and calumny.
    If you are convinced that your accusations have a basis, then I will ask you to come in the open and back your accusations with your real name.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 03:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo01

    @5 Alejomartinez

    Just curious! Exactly what does Brexit have do do with a stranded Argentine vessel in the Falkland Islands? Kindly explain!

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @11

    Colonel J. D. Peron was part of the group of soldiers who entered Casa Rosada to evict President Irigoyen. Years before General J. D. Peron was vice-president of the Dictatorship of General Farrell and, under this dictatorship, and the help of the GOU (a nationalist lodge) he organized the Partido Justicialista. He was the only democratically elected president that previosuly had been vice-president of a dictatorship in Argentine history. The first and the only one ever (TG's).

    General Peron personally decorated (he or his wife Eva Duarte) Francisco Franco (dictator of Spain). Alfredo Stroessnerr (dictator of Paraguay), Augusto Pinochet (Chile dictator) Nicolae Caucescu (dictator of Romania) and Batista (dictator of Cuba).

    In addition, he also decorated Licio Gelli (leader of P2). Other peronist presidents decorated “democrats” such as Gadaffy (Libyan dictator) and Hugo Chavez (Venezuela Dictator).

    It is your problem if for you these political acts do not prove, with facts, that the peronsim is the same as fascism. You may need to shed some light on their ideology because Peronism is a fascist populist conservative party.

    Let me add that saying that a person is fascist is NOT an insult. It simply define an ideology and a way of exercising power.

    On the other hand, I will not tell you my full name because I have decided to post my comments anonymously with responsibly (none of my post have ever been erased by MP) If you, for personal convenience (because it allows you to show off as a defender of Peronism) decided to use your true full name is not of my business.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @11 Reekie ' ...use the term “fascist” ...'

    That should be easy to explain: Peronism was fashioned after European fascism. Perón himself, and María Eva Durate de Perón, were great admirers of both Mussolini and Hitler and their fascist governments, and offered the Axis considerable assistance while pretending to be neutral in WWII. Some of Perón's programmes and policies were essentially copied from Mussolini's government. Though Peronismo still couldn't make the trains run on time.

    [Che:]

    Italy's unconvinced by Argentine glory
    They equate Peron with Mussolini, can't think why

    [Eva:]
    Did you hear that? They called me a whore!
    They actually called me a whore!

    [Italian admiral:]
    But Signora Peron it's an easy mistake

    -----

    Hardly a mistake to confuse peronismo with fascismo. You know, fascist goons murdering prosecutors in the night, that sort of thing. Perón the dictator. May not be familiar to you. But serious historians recognise that peronism is the showcase Latin American version of European fascism, and it's hardly surprising that those who adhere to it are sometimes called by its name.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 04:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @11

    I,m sorry but I forgot to add the Treaty signed between Argentina and Iran during the government of CFK Agreement.

    Can I include the regular visits of politicians, and public servants, of the former Argentine Government to Iran?

    I can define the government of Iran as a fascist? Would you agree with me?

    I must admit that CFK not decorated any Iranian officers...not any that I know at least.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @14 Mart Llazo
    “Though Peronismo still couldn't make the trains run on time. ”

    Neither could Mussolini; it's an urban legend that he made the trains run on time, according to Snopes.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Skip

    CFK's government had more in common with a fascist government than a democratic government.

    Last time I checked my country hadn't arrested anyone for reporting an inflation rate. Nor sent state sponsored groups like La Campora (a la brown shirts) into private enterprises to enforce government dictats nor raised irredentism to an almost religious fervour.

    Enrique you always feel like a victim, which is why you can't see the real victims of your beliefs and the governments you support.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @17

    Victimize themselves is part of the Peronist tradition. It is part of their myth.

    Montoneros (sourced from “Catholic Action”) and the Argentina Anti-Communist Action (Accion Argentina Anti-comunista better known as “AAA”) were two of the most violent peronists political groups in the history of Argentina.

    Both of these violent groups emerged, and operated, under the aegis of Peronists Ministries and Peronists Ministers.

    In addition, it was the Peronist government of Isabel Peron who instructed the Army for the “annihilation” of subversive groups starting the state terrorism in Argentina.

    So, in short, of Peronism emerged the political violence of the 70s but they always present themselves as persecuted and victims of the “gorilas” (those who are not peronists).

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 05:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    #13 pgerman

    Again, I am asking you to stop calling me “fascist,” something I am not, unless you can prove it.

    Your long diggression about Peronism being fascist is of no interest in this discussion. I am not a Peronist either.

    I am not playing the victim. I am just telling you to stop calling names--yes, I do consider calling someone fascist as an insult--because it's inaccurate and does not add anyting to the discussion about either the nature of the Kirchner or the Macri governments, which is one topic discussed in MP stories.

    Just in case you believe you may discourage me from posting--think again. Others have tried the same trick and were disappointed. No long ago, someone in this board suggest I am a pedophile--a calumny I also take very seriously.

    And again, you can post as much as you want under a nickname. Just use your privilege responsibly and don't defame individuals.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    19

    I am responsible for what I write, and I wrote, and I take responsibility for my writing.

    Accusing a person without evidence of pedophilia is a crime, something I have never done, but saying that a person is a fascist is not a crime. Being a fascist, it doesn't matther whether you like it or not, is not a crime at all.

    I don't know whetter Enrique Massot is your real full name. Honestly I don't care. If it really is your real full name you will have to take responsibility for using it in the forums.

    I'm not naive, nor a child and well, and it well know the way certain groups operate in Argentina: posting comments in favor of Peronism using the real name is very well seen and might ensure lots of benefits in a hypothetical future Peronist government.

    I have been kind enough to clarify you that, from my point of view, Peronism is fascism and those who defend Peronism, logically, they are fascists. You, as usually do, avoid rational discuiones. I'd love to read your point of view about the historical facts I mentioned in my postings.

    As always, you, peronists, prefer the role of the victim. When this role doesn't you begin with insults and profanity (I invite you to see the shame that starred Guillermo Moreno in Argentina TV insulting an economist when he could not defend the ridiculous stance that inflation in Argentina was less than 10% during the previous government).

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 06:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    La Sanmartiniana will “be returned to Argentina” in the next 25 weeks....

    If the Argies are offended because of their interpretation of “returning to Argentina”, tough titty.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • pgerman

    @21

    From my point of view you can sink it with the whole crew.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @19 Enrique Massot
    You say you're not a Peronist, but you support the Kirchner government don't you? And the K's are Peronists as they belong(ed) to the Justicialist party. Is that not correct?

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    That Reekie is a Kirchnerist Peronist and doesn't realise it, whilst defending tooth and nail every flawed practice and economic disaster produced by Kirchnerism.... strikes me as curious and amusing.

    Aug 22nd, 2016 - 09:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    #23 Demon Tree

    Good question. The Kirchners are Peronists but not all Peronists are Kirchnerists. Sounds complicated--because it is.

    Juan Peron claimed to be in a Third Position, independent from the U.S. and Soviet Union blocks, that could be synthetized by the motto: “Nor Yankees or Marxists--Peronists.”

    In spite of the claim, what effectively happened is that under the Peronist banner groups such as the Peronist Youth, from which the armed group Montoneros was formed in the late 1960s.

    While the Peronist Youth and Montoneros were left-oriented, the Alianza Anticomunista Argentina, created by José López Rega, a man close to Perón who would become minister of the Peronist government in 1973, was a fascist, clandestine group formed by military, police and intelligence members that kidnapped, tortured and killed with impunity an estimated 700 citizens suspected of democratic or leftist tendencies from 1973 until the 1976 coup d'état.

    While never been a Peronist and not thinking much at the time of Néstor Kirchner's assumption as president, I began paying attention to the actions later on.

    Néstor's aggressive stance in re-negotiating the foreign debt at 30 cents per dollar, the liquidation of the debt with the IMF, the trials for crimes against humanity and the politics of social inclusion among others were a first-ever for Argentina since its creation. Cristina Fernández showed her own capacities as president later on.

    I believe the Kirchners' ability to steer something as complex as Peronism the way they did--with flaws of course--was an amazing feat. I can also understand the extreme hate Kirchnerism has awaken in conservative sectors in Argentine and abroad.

    Aug 23rd, 2016 - 04:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Reekie: “Néstor's aggressive stance in re-negotiating the foreign debt at 30 cents per dollar,....

    How quaintly these argentines view their history.

    The action was not any sort of ”negotiation“ but instead a take-it-or-leave-it cram-down which deprived thousands of Argentine residents and others of their retirement savings. Something in which Peronism has repeatedly shown its adeptness.

    The ill-gotten fortunes ( ”with flaws of course”) that the Kirchners made in dubious and corrupt dealings in Argentina is another form of crimes against humanity.

    Small wonder that so many former Kirchneristas have renounced their alliance with the party of corruption and folly, and left the bloc. The stink and stains that Peronism and in particular the Kirchner cult left will keep most serious foreign investment away for a very long time.

    Aug 23rd, 2016 - 06:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • chronic

    Not all perronists are Cretini but all perronists are opportunists, thieves and liars as are all Cretinni.

    Aug 23rd, 2016 - 07:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @26 Marti Llazo
    What do you think Néstor should have done about the massive debt and default he inherited? (Now that's a heavy inheritance!) Greece wasn't allowed to renegotiate its enormous debts and look how well they are doing now.

    Anyway, I'd have thought you'd be all in favour of people suffering for the good of the economy; whether it's losing their retirement savings, or the jobs that would allow them to make such savings in the first place. Surely getting the economy back on track is the important thing?

    @25 Enrique Massot
    So you didn't support the K's originally but you approve of most of the things they did?

    I really can't work out what all the different factions of Peronism are supposed to have in common. And the Kirchners seem to be mostly populist anyway, not following any particular philosophy.

    Aug 23rd, 2016 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @28 DT
    You're right....the one thing that the Peronistas and the Kirchners have in common is populism.....besides incompetence and corruption at the highest level.
    During Peron's first mandate, (1946-55) his whore wife Evita, used to extort foreign companies and their workers, under the pretext that they were contributing to the poor....the problem, as always , was that all the money was syphoned into Swiss bank accounts.

    Aug 23rd, 2016 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Hepatia

    England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.

    Aug 24th, 2016 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Argentina will return Patagonia to Angola within 25 years.

    Aug 24th, 2016 - 03:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    When nationalism becomes more powerful than common sense the truth is the first thing that is compromised. And nationalism is at the heart of Argentina's claim to the Falkland Islands.

    Aug 24th, 2016 - 06:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @32 “ When nationalism becomes more powerful than common sense....”

    When I first came to Argentina, over 30 years ago, I observed that the country, at the time under military rule, was something like “stepping into the Italy of 100 years ago.” And that was because I had enjoyed my superficial time in Italy.

    In the intervening years, Argentina has appeared more like a constant form of dark theatre, mostly comical but occasionally tragic, but always surreal, in the sense that you expect that the hysterical drama will end and the painted cardboard backdrops will be taken down so that the real world might be revealed and we can all go home. But no. Instead the country remains in a state that you are constantly reminded is a fantasy asylum of stage-prop improvisation and Orwellian invention, where nothing is true for very long. Though I still find it entertaining, like watching a drunk clumsily trying to fish pennies from a storm-drain. Or a tiny, mangy poodle barking at a bear. Behind nearly every attempt at a handsomely serious face there is a short-fuzed, neurotic, raving lunatic with an attitude. Nowadays I must say that there is progress to be noted. I no longer think of today's Argentina as the Italy of a hundred years ago, but instead as an Albanian mental-health ward of circa 1900.

    Aug 24th, 2016 - 02:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Heisenbergcontext

    @33

    As much as I enjoyed reading that colourful - if rather cruel - description, I feel obliged to add that every culture within the countries I've inhabited nurtured their own peculiar myths, some of which came to be expressed as nationalist sentiment. The foundation of which is, of course, the fear of letting go.

    I've always attributed this to poor toilet training.

    Aug 24th, 2016 - 03:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    #34 Heisenbergcontext

    From his posting at #33, there is a glimpse to the origines of Marti's contempt for Argentine. He was there but dazzled by the Argentine ways, which I agree may appear puzzling to foreigners.

    Instead of mingling, he remained aloof and hostile, refusing to let go and enjoy his time in the country. He preferred to keep his high seat and nurse bitterness and criticism, somehow blaming the Argentines for his incapacity of adaptation.

    It's very likely that the origin of Marti's bitterness comes from wounds inflicted by some unattainable Argentine lady who sent him packing.

    Aug 26th, 2016 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @35 It's called “observation”, pibe, and the advantage of having also lived and worked in the civilised and successful nations that contrast so greatly with Peronist Argentina. And I have had decades here to observe some of the characteristics of this country that make it such an amusing failure, when a more superficial view suggests that it might have everything in its favour to be magnificently successful. And of course you seem to be rather supportive of the very practices that promote that failure. If you ever visit Argentina and spend some time here looking closely and objectively, you'd start to understand both the blatantly screaming and obvious foolishness, corruption, and malfeasance known well to all the world, and the subtly concealed lunacies that continue to keep this bankrupt Banana Republic from its bananas.

    Aug 26th, 2016 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Enrique Massot

    #36 Marti
    No, you missed the whole point of what it means to be Argentine because you never took off your Anglo Saxon glasses.
    What you elegantly call “subtly concealed lunacies” is really the essence of being Argentine. Not for nothing “Balada para un Loco” (A crazy man's ballad) was a hit in Argentina in 1969.
    As U.S. youtuber Dustin Luke accurately describes, Argentines administer time in ways that are inimaginable to some foreigners.
    Too bad! I can see you missed a lot of the fun in Argentina.

    Aug 27th, 2016 - 05:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    Reekie, after all these years when Canada was trying to get you down out of the trees and civilise you, I have learned all too well the disease of argentismo, but as with so many debilitating diseases, this one is best kept under observation.

    It comes as no surprise that one of Argentina's most revealing radio stations broadcasts from within an insane asylum. They should be given credit for admitting that it's a nuthouse. Likewise we fully understand why Argentine cities have the world's highest rate of people under psychiatric care. Because this country is literally..... clinically insane.

    Aug 27th, 2016 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Martin Woodhead

    the south Atlantic is no place for inexperienced sailors on a yacht its terrifying in even so called mild weather trying to sail a yacht to the Falklands is not a casual undertaking hopefully the FIG won't let whoever they send to sail it back to Argentina attempt it if they cant prove to be competent.

    Aug 29th, 2016 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Marti Llazo

    @39 “...whoever they send to sail it back to Argentina attempt it if they cant prove to be competent.”

    Prove to be competent? They're sending Argentines, for crissake. They have no word in their language, nor space in their culture, for “competence.”

    Aug 30th, 2016 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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