MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Blow for PM May: High Court rules Parliament must approve Brexit process
British government’s plan for leaving the European Union was thrown into uncertainty on Thursday after the High Court ruled that Parliament must give its approval before the process can begin. The court’s decision seemed likely to slow — but not halt — the British withdrawal from the bloc, a step approved by nearly 52% of voters in a June referendum. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesSo the rich Remoaner has gotten what she wanted.
Nov 03rd, 2016 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -6It looks like 'Tit's' underestimated her Remoaner friends, just lake she is underestimating the fact that anything but a hard Brexit will blow up in her face.
Let's hope the appeal court will show sense and overturn Lord Thomas.
Busses and trains, busses and trains
Nov 03rd, 2016 - 07:53 pm - Link - Report abuse -6A hard Brexit WILL blow up in her face !
Nov 03rd, 2016 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +3We cannot negotiate any trade agreements until we have left the EU..NOT during our membership I can't see the world queuing up on our doorstep desperate to trade with us.
In a radio discussion I listened to, they reckoned it could take up to 9 years to sort it out.
Look at the Canadian experience with the EU
A great outcome for the UK!
Nov 03rd, 2016 - 10:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Shows the strengths of the Westminster system which shouldn't be perverted into a centralised presidential style system that plagues many parts of the world.
There's no way MPs will vote against Brexit now, but if it means staying in the single market then it's a very good thing. I don't know why anyone would want to screw up the economy for 9 or even 5 years.
Nov 03rd, 2016 - 11:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -1And ChrisR, I see the pound rose after the ruling. What a surprise. You know that if remain had won it would be over $1.50 and the BoE would be talking about raising interest rates instead of cutting them.
So the plot unfolds...
Nov 04th, 2016 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse -6I was going for a hard Brexit honestly...it's the judges fault...
I'll definitely appeal....(I won't )...;-)
It doesn't derail Brexit, IMHO. But the sovereignty of Parliament is enshrined in the British 'constitution'. The 1689 Bill Of Rights is usually regarded as the most important foundation of British law, expanding as it did on Magna Carta after the 'Glorious Revolution' and restricting the power of the monarchy. It is the act that defines the rights to freedom of speech, regular free elections and the supremacy of Parliament over the King.
Nov 04th, 2016 - 07:48 am - Link - Report abuse +3In fact: the very first line of 'the Subject's Rights reads:
“That the pretended power of suspending the laws or the execution of laws by regal authority without consent of Parliament is illegal”
What this means is that the government cannot simply hide behind its line of 'you don't show your hand in a game of poker' - used repeatedly by Javid on Question Time last night. That line is simply a smokescreen for the reality, which is “we have no idea what to do now”.
It is shameful that the head of a foreign multinational car manufacturer now knows more about the government's plans than does Parliament.
What this means is that the government cannot simply hide behind its line of 'you don't show your hand in a game of poker' - used repeatedly by Javid on Question Time last night. That line is simply a smokescreen for the reality, which is “we have no idea what to do now”.
Nov 04th, 2016 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse -1Rubbish, the embryo negotiating team have a very clear strategy. It includes full market access to the EU, restoration of sovereignty including border control and work permits and a City strategy of satelite offices to bypass any restrictions the EU may try to impose. Thats the starting point, with a whole network of alternatives should the EU resist. Germany and France followed by Spain Italy Ireland and the Netherlands have tbe most to loose.
If theres an election Labour and the Poison Dwarves will be sidelined for the next ten years at least .
The judgement was probably correct but clearly a delaying tactic by hedge fund managers and big business interests. The will of the people will endure however long it takes to get us out of the awful EU.
What next? Is the church going to weigh in with restrictions on Brexit? FIFA? The Salvation Army?
Nov 04th, 2016 - 09:27 am - Link - Report abuse -1@ DemonTree
Nov 04th, 2016 - 11:04 am - Link - Report abuse -2So you are happy that an ex-model 'money gambler manager - her client's money, not her own of course' ardent Corbyn supporter and Labour party member foreigner from South America managed to pull one over on Tits?
She had the help of Lord Thomas, one of the strongest Remainers in the judiciary who, given his recent past, should have recused himself from the panel, but it will only weaken the strength of the UK A50 negotiating panel, it won't stop the exit.
But you just don't get it do you?
You WANT to stay with the stinking, sinking ship that is the EU despite the fact they are ruining the UK.
The pound only shot up because all the headless chicken money traders that you admire so much had betted against the UK, where is it now? YES, now they have taken their profits it's back to what it was. Just try understanding the money markets for once, please!
“You know that if remain had won it would be over $1.50 and the BoE would be talking about raising interest rates instead of cutting them.”
The pound, perhaps, but with The Canuck still in charge of The BoE interest rates, no.
Anyway, your naivety is now apparent for all on here to see. Just deal with reality, you will feel so much better.
I have far more at stake here with the value of the pound and I am not bothered about Brexit, the harder the better, which I hope will be the case if ever Tits gets herself a pair of balls and sacks Hammond and Carney. Tits says The C will be in place until after A50 negotiations are completed: just a little punt - that won't be the case, he'll screw up and insult 'the politicians' again.
@ ChrisR
Nov 04th, 2016 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse +3It's irrelevant who actually brought the case, and she won't gain anything personally from it, except for the publicity maybe. The point is the law and the constitution, like sceptic64 said. We do not want the government to start ignoring their own laws, and running the country by direct democracy is a terrible idea. If the government have a clear strategy for Brexit then it won't be a problem for them to tell parliament and the rest of the country what it is.
If it means calling an election then so be it. I don't think there is much chance of a pro-Europe party winning so you will still get your wish.
I don't admire the money traders, far from it, but I do think they are making an honest judgement of the effects of Brexit on the UK economy, unlike many of the people cheer-leading for Leave. I don't expect it to raise the pound long term though, since this ruling really means more uncertainty which is bad for the economy in itself.
If you are happy with Brexit then you should stop complaining about the consequences and blaming them on other people. A slower economy and lower pound are the natural results of Brexit and anything Carney can do is just tinkering.
And I do want to stay with the EU because I don't think it's ruining the UK. Firstly the UK is far from being ruined, and secondly the great majority of the problems we do have were caused by our own various governments.
All that has been done is to bring the decision back to Parliament. We don't have a presidential system although our more recent PM.'s have been acting that way.
Nov 04th, 2016 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Whether you are for or against, the public via their MP's have right to know what kind of agreement are we going for. We don't want any private deals favouring pressure groups which are made behind closed doors.
Whoa! ChrisR - what are you are saying here?
Nov 04th, 2016 - 01:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +3“Labour party member foreigner from South America” - Gina Miller was born in Guyana (or British Guiana if you are from the 1950s) and has lived in the UK since she was 10 - over 40 years. Does that mean she is not “British enough” for you? Or do you object to her being a 'Labour party member'? Why should either of these be an issue?
“Lord Thomas, one of the strongest Remainers in the judiciary ...should have recused himself from the panel” - So, are we now vetting everyone on their stance before allowing them to do their job? Are we asking for a judiciary that is 'Brexiteer only' here? Does his political stance affect his ability to do his job and interpret the Law of the Land?
What do you want - a judiciary where everyone must be a Party Member and whose behaviour is scrutinised before they can do a job? You want them appointed by, and answerable to, politicians?
Think about what you are saying here. This is One Party State. This is Brook No Intolerance: in short, this is the kind of thinking which is the very opposite of what a democracy should stand be. Going down that kind of thinking very swiftly leads to demagoguery and fascism.
The front covers of the rabid press in Britain today are an absolute disgrace. The Daily Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph are guilty of inciting Mob Rule and asking for a witch-hunt.
Is this the kind of Britain you want - where all opposition is deemed 'treason' and debate silenced?
Even Kelvin McKenzie - a despicable little oik if ever there was one - welcomes this ruling.
Parliament is sovereign for a reason. Demanding a controlled judiciary, just because it seeks to uphold the constitution and prevent it being hijacked by a small group over-reaching their authority, is a very dangerous road to travel.
Sceptic64
Nov 04th, 2016 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I could not agree more.
We portray ourselves as the mother of all parliaments,
Nov 04th, 2016 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -2the pillar of the wold,
yet at this very moment in time, we cannot even do our own shoelaces up without messing it up,
How can something so simple end up being so complicated and messy,
this needs to be sorted out pronto.
@ Briton
Nov 04th, 2016 - 10:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +1It's not a disaster, and we haven't messed anything up. It just shows the government have to obey the law like anyone else. Holding a vote in parliament is how things are supposed to work in Britain.
You have to realise that after over 40 years in the EU, it is not a simple thing to undo; it is bound to be complicated and messy. Nevertheless, it can be done and it will be done.
Ian Hislop on “Have I got news for you” came out with a good one tonight.
Nov 04th, 2016 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The Brexiters have been complaining that our courts are being by-passed by European courts and that we have lost the right to make judgements that can stick.
So now we have a British court that has made a ruling that the Brexiters don't like and they are complaining. They could always take it to Brussels and get it overturned !
@ Clyde15 Haha.
Nov 05th, 2016 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0I thought some people who don't really understand the complexity and meaning of the ruling would be having a pink fit.
@ ChrisR Calm down, old boy. You don't live in the U.K. any more, you opted to leave. I warned you the pound would drop - you said your accountant had assured you it wouldn't but you took my advice and bought forward until April next year. Now you are panicking as April is fast approaching. Insulting everyone won't change your circumstances, it will be a long while before your pension recovers value. Be happy you invested all your capital in Uruguay. (That's what you told us here)
@ ElaineB
Nov 05th, 2016 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse +1And we even have MPs adding to the stupidity. David Davis tweeted “Unelected judges calling the shots. This is precisely why we voted out. Power to the people!”
We voted out to stop British judges ruling on UK law? What on earth does that have to do with the EU? I don't know if he's an idiot or just pandering to idiots, but it's bad news either way.
@ Demon Tree
Nov 05th, 2016 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I think it shows the level of misunderstanding and false information peddled. It is stirred up by the partisan media. People are just lazy and don't look beyond the headline or seem to want to look for the facts.
If, according to the HighCourt, Parliament can now invalidate Brexit, then why the hell did they bother to hold a referendum at all ?? Smells very fishy - what if Brexit had lost, could Parliament overrule the wish of the majority, and go ahead with it (Brexit) ?
Nov 05th, 2016 - 03:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@ Jack Bauer
Nov 05th, 2016 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was an advisory referendum, so it really doesn't have any power in law. And yes, parliament could have gone ahead with Brexit even if we'd voted to remain.
They held the referendum to find out what people wished to do, and as you can see the government is planning to implement the result although they are not obliged to.
If we wanted to set limits on the power of parliament we'd need a proper written constitution I believe.
@ ElaineB
Nov 05th, 2016 - 07:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Lying as usual you feminazi. And yes, I am the one who down-ticked you - the first time I have ever bothered. Another 'medal' for standing up to men.
I predicted the pound would drop to U$D1.20 and I don't have an accountant.
The only thing you got right was that the vast majority of my wealth is invested in Uruguay and I told you that. As for YOU advising me to 'buy forward' I PMSL at that little gem!
I remember you playing ducks and drakes with the question of how you were voting: sitting on the fence again because you cannot ever make a decision. So, after all the oohing and arghing you are a Remoaner: what a shock that isn't.
Anyway, the latest from the early GE data, done by serious people:
“Across England the research found that any anti-Brexit party would secure just 163 out of a possible 533 seats, if the results of the EU referendum were replicated, while in Wales any similar anti-Brexit party would pick-up just 11 seats out of a total of 40.
All of Scotland’s seats, bar one of Banff and Buchan, are expected to vote for a pro-EU party.
The figures are likely to hearten Brexit supporting MPs who are now said to be preparing for an early general election, according to reports.”
So the Scots can always be trusted to 'stuff the English', it's a bit like EB 'standing up to men': utter crap.
I can only hope and trust that Tits gets a pair and announces an election ASAP.
Don't you just love the boundary system and first past the post? :o)
The Scottish vote on the EU was never about stuffing the English...
Nov 05th, 2016 - 08:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No one knew what the English vote was going to be, most folk including myself, expected a majority remain vote...
DT,
Nov 05th, 2016 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +1so by what you are saying, the issue (Brexit, yes or no), might as well havebeen decided by Parliament...but on the other hand, if Parliament is 'supposed' to represent the interests of the majority of the population - “They held the referendum to find out what people wished to do” - what's your take on it ? D'you think they will they honour Brexit ?
DemonTree
Nov 05th, 2016 - 08:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -1It's not a disaster, and we haven't messed anything up,
Well the people cant be any more confused as they are now,
and the court ruling will only delay the inevitable,
I agree with what you said the other day, that parliament would not vote against article 50,
I think all most people want now, is the best deal we can get,
besides we still have over two years yet, and nothing much will change until then,
thanks
So the Scots voted to remain in the EU “to stuff the English” ?
Nov 05th, 2016 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +2What an arrogant piece of bullshit !!!!!!
Maybe, just maybe, they thought that their future would be better served by staying in.
You did notice, did you, that the number of English voters that voted to stay in was 13,266,996 - Scotland 1,661,191.
So, were the English voters in the S.East voting stay trying to stuff it to the rest of their countrymen ?
This is evidence of some “plot” against the English by Scottish voters. How about the 1,018,329 who voted to leave.
Are they “stuffing it to the English” who wanted to remain ?
Anyway, what is the fuss about. All that has happened is that the PM has been reminded that Parliament is supreme and that the country does not have a presidential system.
As an expat you don't live here and have to deal with the day-to-day consequences.
@ Jack Bauer
Nov 05th, 2016 - 09:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The issue has been decided by Parliament in the past; we joined the EEC without a referendum, thought they did hold one afterwards (where the people voted to stay in). Then when the EEC became the EU, Parliament signed us up without ever holding a referendum.
But people have been unhappy about some aspects of the EU for a while, and the increase in immigration after the old Eastern Block states started joining has caused various problems and resentment. Cameron agreed to hold the referendum to win back popular support from UKIP and to appease the Eurosceptic members of his own party. I'm sure he never thought the people would vote to leave.
I voted to remain, but yes, I think the government will honour Brexit. If they don't then people will feel betrayed, and there would be a massive swing - probably to UKIP - at the next election. Also you have to remember, it's a Tory government and although the overall result was very close, among Tory voters it was overwhelmingly for Leave. If they ignored the result it would be their own voters who they were pissing off, and they could kiss goodbye to ever being reelected.
@ ChrisR
Some of my friends who had always been in favour of PR in the past told me they were glad of the first past the post system in the last election since it stopped UKIP MPs getting elected.
It's funny how people support these things when it gives the result they want and oppose them when it doesn't. I seem to remember you condemning the rather similar US electoral college only a few days ago.
@ Clyde15
Completely agree.
Clyde15
Nov 05th, 2016 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0you are right , and he is wrong,
as for parliament,
I don't trust them, I cant see them voting against article 50, but can see some of them using it to water it down
but of course it wont work but merely delay the inevitable, as leave the UK will, ,
sovereignty they may be, but as tony Benn stated , parliament is subservient to the British people, not the other way around
@ ChrisR I see you side-stepped all the criticism of your usual xenophobic and misogynist remarks from everyone else to hone in on attacking me.
Nov 06th, 2016 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse -1I applaud that you have put your little bit of savings in Uruguay - the country you chose to live out your days in. You have lived in Uruguay for a few short years and yet you seem to believe you have a right to criticise everything about the country and government. Why shouldn't someone who has lived in the U.K. for decades be allowed to? Always you forget you are one of the foreigners/immigrants you despise so much.
You once told us your were born in the gutter but made something of your life; good for you. Why didn't you leave your gutter language behind when you elevated yourself through society. Childish name-calling just makes you look like an angry young boy. Rather like Trump.
@ ElaineB
Nov 06th, 2016 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0Saying you are a feminazi is not name calling, it is a well known / used label applied to females such as you. I imagine that you wear it with pride when you go to the meetings with the 'rest of the girls'. Did you know Germain Greer has moved on from her childish ways?
As for 'Tits', that is a good description of her considering she wears the most ridiculous clothing showing her tits off.
“You once told us your were born in the gutter but made something of your life; good for you. Why didn't you leave your gutter language behind when you elevated yourself through society”
I wasn't 'born in the gutter' but I was born into a poor family but unlike here we were not 'stinking poor', my mother brought me up properly, unlike yours who turned you into a feminazi. I notice that you deride me as usual about the use of language which just shows you are not circulating as high as you tell us you are.
If you ever do get into those sort of circles (and I bet you are peeved you do not) you will find for yourself just how 'foul' (to use a favoured expression of yours) their language is. AND you claim to tread the hallowed halls of American politics - now I know you are lying with all the F words going around there.
Try slapping yourself on both of your faces, it might just bring you into something like the real world.
ChrisR, your mother would be disgusted by the way you talk too and about women. Disgusted.
Nov 06th, 2016 - 01:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Why use the tabloid name once used about our Prime Minister? She looks perfectly well-dressed and is doing a good job. Only an old misogynist would focus on making remarks about her appearance; poor-man's Trump that you are. That is exactly the kind of remark he would make.
You got something right, I do move in high circles in politics and diplomacy in many countries and for your information they do not behave in a foul manner like you.
You have huge chip on your shoulder about your poverty-stricken childhood. Why? Is that why you call the poor in Uruguay the 'stinking poor'? What a truly revolting person you are. People cannot help where they are born and the circumstance. It doesn't elevate you to put others down.
@ ElaineB
Nov 06th, 2016 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I do move in high circles in politics and diplomacy in many countries and for your information they do not behave in a foul manner like you”
Of course you do dear, of course you do, you have told us all how much of a success you are. Now settle down and take your medicine.
“You have huge chip on your shoulder about your poverty-stricken childhood.”
Why are you such a cretin and red-misted by facts that don't fit your version of truth?
I wrote to DT regarding his 'success', which I am perfectly willing to believe from him but not from a serial liar such you, demonstrating that perhaps his friends should have worked harder at school, etc.
You really must take hold of this terrible blackness you have within you, I have cautioned you before how it is warping what remains of your character.
@ChrisR Stop projecting, you sad, bitter, old fool.
Nov 06th, 2016 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I have never said how successful I am on here - you have no idea what my job is - but you are forever telling us how important you are. You assume much just because you cannot stand that I fly business class when you can't afford to and. on occasion, I have mentioned something I heard in my line of work. From that you concocted a whole falsehood about me.
But most of all you cannot stand that as a woman I have a great and successful life - and will for decades to come. You, on the other hand had to retire in a developing country because you couldn't afford to in a developed one. You told us that. Why not embrace the country allowing you to live out your old age instead of forever insulting the people of Uruguay?
Believe whatever you like about me. The more vulgar and disgusting the remarks you make, the more you show your true character. Poor-man's Trump.
Why not answer some of the other posters that don't like your comments?
@ ChrisR
Nov 06th, 2016 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I said I'm doing okay; I certainly don't have the sort of jet-setting lifestyle that it sounds like ElaineB does.
Why do you care how May dresses anyway? In all the recent photos I have seen of her she was dressed perfectly normally, and I'd much rather have a PM who dresses badly and runs the country well than the reverse. At least she doesn't provide us with this kind of spectacle: https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c14e24f1ee8d11015dc9b134847f19d7-c?convert_to_webp=true :)
And you really think calling someone a femiNAZI isn't name calling? We'd all be better off if you'd both stop doing it.
Back on topic, you 'predicted the pound would drop to U$D1.20', which it almost has. So why do you complain on here about it being so low, if you expected it to happen?
You haven't replied to Clyde15 about the Scots voting to 'stuff the English'. Did I vote to 'stuff the English' too by voting Remain?
Nor have you replied to sceptic64 - do you want the kind of Britain where all opposition is deemed treason and debate silenced? You called Carney a traitor yesterday, so perhaps that is what you want?
Nothing to see here, fellow Argies, move along now.
Nov 07th, 2016 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -2@ EB
Nov 07th, 2016 - 05:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“I have never said how successful I am on here”
So you have forgotten when you were posting which first class flight / operator you preferred you made the ONLY mention of your family 'who were surprised how successful I have been “, slipped your mind has it?
And I suppose you never took the piss out of the fact my wife and I lost half our retirement savings because of The Cunt Brown © Jeremy Clarkson 2010? You crossed the Rubicon that day. So stop playing the innocent victim.
@ DemonTree
” Why do you care how May dresses anyway?“
Did you not see the on the HP Channel Tits displaying her tits almost as far as her nipples whilst she was on the front bench? That clip went around the world and is what made the tabloids take the piss out of her and give her the nickname. Or when she went to see the Queen, bent down and showed her her naval in addition? Or when she wore a new dress which full on looked like her bare tits?
”You haven't replied to Clyde15 about the Scots voting to 'stuff the English'.
He has already made his view known about my comment: why should I waste my time trying to alter it? Of course the Wee Jimmy had nothing to do with it and chickens don't vote for Christmas.
“Did I vote to 'stuff the English' too by voting Remain?”
No, I didn't believe for one second that you did and all the way through our posts we have maintained a reasonable relationship.
“Nor have you replied to sceptic64 - do you want the kind of Britain where all opposition is deemed treason and debate silenced?”
If it goes against the majority recently revealed for a most import matter and the leaders of that party are as wacky as Corbyn, so what?
With regard to the judges, they are supposed to be selected for cases taking care to avoid conflicts of interest, thus eliminated retrials when it comes out like it has.
All three acted in concert about the EU 'club' and all slow clapped Gove at a formal dinner (he was Brexit). They were unsuitable to sit in judgement.
ChrisR Sad, bitter, old nobody.
Nov 07th, 2016 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse -3I never mocked you for losing your wife's money but I am sure she wasn't best pleased to have to leave her children and grandchildren to live out her life in a developing country because of your investment decisions. You could have retired to Spain where the air is great for asthmatics and only a short hop home to England but, of course, you hate the Spanish - calling them 'spics', just as you call the French 'frogs' and all the other ethnic slurs you use. There wasn't much choice of where you could go where you weren't prejudice against the people. Now you call the Uruguayans 'stinking poor'.
Be honest, you took against me when I didn't agree with you over gun ownership in the U.K. I still don't agree with you and am pleased good sense prevailed and we changed our gun laws after Dunblane.
I do remember discussing the merits of various class of travel with different airlines - in answer to a question. You were not involved in that discussion but I guess you were green with envy about a woman travelling in premium classes. Lots of us do. How dare we!
My family were always confident of my ability. No surprises that I have an accomplished career. I like my work and am well rewarded. It is not always easy but I like the challenges it presents. My family supports me as I support each and every one of them in their endeavours. It is what families do.
You keep insulting me if it helps you release some of all that poisonous anger you carry around. Your opinion means nothing to me, though, I confess I enjoy winding you up.
@ ChrisR
Nov 07th, 2016 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse -2The only thing I have noticed in pictures of May is that the tabloids seem inordinately obsessed with her shoes; another irrelevancy that merely distracts people from the important issues. It's depressing that so many people care more about appearances than substance these days.
And actually I thought you might have changed your mind on the Scots. It's completely absurd to suggest people would vote on such an important matter just to 'stuff' someone else, and why would you assume Clyde15 had any different motives to me when voting?
“If it goes against the majority recently revealed for a most import matter and the leaders of that party are as wacky as Corbyn, so what?”
Only that without an opposition, we become a one party state. Can you name a single one of those that you'd be happy to live or have lived in?
Without a viable opposition, the government does not have to fear losing an election, and therefore they have no restraint on what they may do, no reason to keep their promises and no reason to govern in a way that is good for the people.
Without an opposition there is no one to criticise the government's plans, so unforeseen consequences and weaknesses in them are not discovered until they have been implemented and it is too late.
You would also be wise to remember that sooner or later a government you are opposed to will be elected, and then you may be very glad there is an opposition to represent you and show they are a government in waiting.
As for the judges, everyone had a vote in the referendum and an opinion on it. How could you find anyone unbiased? The government would have appealed no matter who made the decision, they have no reason not to.
I would have slow clapped Gove too, I know a lot of teachers and he made himself *very* unpopular with them.
Last desperate rear guard action of the remainers, who still don’t seem to accept the result or think they can change or block it, push the reality check button guys!!
Nov 08th, 2016 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The mistake was not making the referendum result binding in law, when the legislation for the referendum was drawn up and passed.
If it isn’t overturned on appeal then it may be better to have a snap election, replace labour MPs with UKIP ones, let’s face it they came second in a lot of labour seats.
Labour MPs who would only be able to fight the election on the basis of voting to activate article 50, or join the Scottish labour MPs.
The Government has clearly set out what their objectives are in terms of access for services and goods, as well as free movement, as several EU Presidents and country leaders have set out theirs.
There is nothing more to know now until the negotiations take place, when there is nothing more to be said, in public, until they are complete.
I don’t recall any running commentaries when the negotiations took place to enter the EU, or sign any of the later treaties, Rome, Lisbon etc. etc.
Yet now everything has to be scrutinised and decided before triggering article 50, never mind negotiating anything, where you don’t know will happen anyway.
Arguing you can’t trigger article 50 until you know the outcome of negotiation, that cannot take place until after article 50 has been triggered, is a complete nonsense and act of sheer desperation.
I didn't want to leave the EU but I completely accept the will of the majority. Why are Leavers so paranoid that there is some conspiracy to stay in the EU. Our PM could not have made it clearer that she will take us out of the EU
Nov 08th, 2016 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -2The timetable for triggering article 50 is based on two factors. One is to have the very best negotiators in place (we all want the best for our country, don't we?) and it coincides with the end of the financial year.
It is incredible naive to think we could just pick up our coats and leave. Our economy is wrapped up in 40 years of trading and it will take all the time we can get to make an exit that is beneficial to us.
@ Pugol-H
Nov 08th, 2016 - 07:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -1When we joined the EEC, and ratified the later treaties, there were always votes in parliament. The PMs at the time certainly did not use the Royal Prerogative to take us into the EU. The negotiations may not have been done in public, but MPs were told the outcome before taking the vote.
Obviously that is not possible in this case, but we can know the general outline of the government's plan and judge how likely it is that it can be achieved. And I don't think they have been at all clear about what kind of deal they are aiming for. Weren't they insisting that it had to be kept secret to give them a better chance in the negotiations?
I believe Labour's support would be conditional on what kind of deal is proposed, they are not threatening to block Brexit completely. In any case the current government has a majority in parliament, albeit a slim one. If they can force all their own MPs to vote together then they don't need support from any other party.
Or as you say they could call an election and try and increase their majority.
DemonTree
Nov 09th, 2016 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The Government has said quite clearly what it wants to keep, as EU Presidents/country leaders have said what the price will be, knowing it’s a red line.
These are negotiating stances, which under other circumstance could lead to a compromise both sides could live with. However not in this case, where political agendas weigh as heavily as economic ones.
The cold hard reality is that there is no chance of agreeing a deal in two years, with that lot in the EU.
The only way this can go is to trigger article 40, then see how the cards fall, planning on a hard Brexit, then anything else is a bonus.
Nothing can be decided in advance whether it’s debated in Parliament or not, that would simply tell the EU what they were guaranteed in advance, for them to beat you down from there.
Simply not how you conduct a negotiation if you want a good deal, and know what you are doing.
Be in no doubt calls for votes in Westminster and other parliaments are simply spanners, for leverage in Nicolas case, simply spanners in the case of the other remainers, who have no idea what else to do.
Tits hands are tied about calling a snap election since Camoron and Clegg agreed the limited term parliament legislation so that the Conservatives could get into power with their version of a 'Faustian Pact'. That worked well, didn't it? NOT.
Nov 10th, 2016 - 12:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It seems that would need to be repealed first.
Do you not remember the fiasco when the Irish, in a democratic referendum REJECTED the Treaty of Lisbon and Camoron stated in the house to The Cunt Brown © Jeremy Clarkson 2010:
“This is not a treaty that Britain wanted or needed - it's a treaty you were so ashamed of you had to sign it in a room all on your own”
It was rushed through in 24 hours. So much for parliament oversight.
ElaineB
Three downticks despite you RCC boyfriend upticking you. Why do you think your lies are not seen by everyone on here and not just me?
Poor, poor feminist, go and try and cheer TheHil up.
She was rejected by the very voters she though would have been a 'slam-dunk': American women who deserted her in droves, only the feminists would have overlooked her support for The Rapist and him walking all over her - and she letting him do it. It was this that the REAL women couldn't stomach (as reported in TheHill).
@ Creepy ChrisR
Nov 10th, 2016 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Totally obsessed with me. Honestly, only a frightened old man would think the word 'feminist' is an insult.
You do expose yourself again. For you, is was all about a man beating a woman and nothing to do with politics. I didn't support Clinton because she is a woman but because I thought she was better qualified for the job. You are an infantile, useless old man.
Now run along and admit to your wife that you secretly hate her for being a woman. And then let your granddaughter know you hate her too.
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