MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Austria's Sunday presidential election with an eye on Brexit and Trump's victory
Austrian voters could elect the European Union’s first far-right leader in the a presidential election on Sunday. Norbert Hofer of the far-right Freedom Party is running against Alexander Van der Bellen. Van der Bellen is an independent candidate who led The Greens party earlier. Recent public opinion studies have shown the two candidates with about equal support. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesGet your bets on now. The shockwaves will make you lots of money if you are brave enough
Dec 03rd, 2016 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Its a done deal.
Dec 03rd, 2016 - 08:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Anti-immigration will carry the day.
Dec 04th, 2016 - 02:57 am - Link - Report abuse 0Hopefully another nail in the coffin of the EU.
Dec 04th, 2016 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0A far-right candidate winning in Austria would be pretty disturbing. You'd think that, like Germany, they'd know better.
Dec 04th, 2016 - 12:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@ DT It would very disturbing. When I was in Vienna this time last year we talked about the extremes of politics there and overwhelmingly the Austrians said, 'But we always know how to compromise and move to the middle ground'. In fact they suggested it was their know trait in recent times to always compromise. To adopt the far-right would be unusual and a dangerous signal.
Dec 04th, 2016 - 01:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0ChrisR
Dec 04th, 2016 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -1So you are implying you would rather see a divided Europe rather than a Union...?
A strong Europe trading with the rest of the world and the UK is surely a good thing...?
Take a look at history and see what happens when you have a divided Europe...
Is there any situation that you are actually in favour of for Europe....?
The EU is right for some because it reduces the possibility of more wars. The Euro has been a disaster for Club Med because they need floating currencies. No objection to the EU as long as we arent in it or the Euro. However Wonder Woman wants to keep Scotland in the EU, keep the, Queen as head of State and retain the £ and no doubt the Barnett formula. Good luck with that… .lol!
Dec 04th, 2016 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought that apart from the UK, the EU was united?
Dec 04th, 2016 - 05:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Doesn't seem so to me. Don't blame Brexit for opening the can of vipers that is the EU.
BTW, I am all foe an EU Army as long as our boys are not in it. There are so many wanabe 'generals' that the internecine fighting will make Hitler look like a pussy.
@ Voice
Dec 04th, 2016 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Yes a divided Europe is a dangerous one. People forget that the EU years have been the safest years.
It looks like good sense has won the day and the moderate Austrians do not want a far-right President.
@ ElaineB
Dec 04th, 2016 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I hope those polls are right. Do you know if they were accurate last time? But whatever the outcome it seems that with a choice of Green or far-right, there wasn't much support for the centre ground in this election.
@ ChrisR
That wasn't the question. Do you WANT a divided Europe, do you want the EU to collapse and the countries go back to fighting with each other, either metaphorically or literally?
@ The Voice
Agree about the Euro, but nothing else!
ChrisR
Dec 04th, 2016 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse -2You have some strange ideas...
In Favour of an EU army, 20 miles off the coast of the UK larger than the UK's army and that the UK has no control of, is not a part of...I can see a couple of problems with that scenario...
None of them in the UK's best interest...
Not a concern...?
In the last couple of hundred years we have seen Germany as an ally, France as an enemy, Germany as an enemy and France as an ally...
...and now the whole of Europe despising the UK...
Probably not a great worry for someone thousands of miles away...
@ DT I think the far-right have conceded defeat. Hofer Facebooked that he is 'infinitely sad'. I would suggest that the middle ground voters would rather lean to the left than the far-right, given their history.
Dec 04th, 2016 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Hofner lost!
Dec 04th, 2016 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -5More immigrants for Austria, aren't they lucky, NOT.
@ Voice
“In Favour of an EU army, 20 miles off the coast of the UK larger than the UK's army and that the UK has no control of, is not a part of...I can see a couple of problems with that scenario...”
So you don't understand what the word 'internecine' means?
“Probably not a great worry for someone thousands of miles away”
So you are a puppet of The Lunatic of Chewbutt?
You have no idea what the UK Army can do and we can always ask the Gurkhas to join in, that has got to be worth half an EU 'Army'.
What is it about you losers who run down the UK? Get a grip FFS.
@ DT
“Do you WANT a divided Europe, do you want the EU to collapse?”
I want the UK to get a hard Brexit ASAP, get the deals already on offer from the rest of the world AND the EU will fall over itself to trade without tariffs just to keep the sales of VW's Merc's and BMW's going in the UK.
...“and the countries go back to fighting with each other, either metaphorically or literally?”
And you think they are not now? Come on!
“whole of Europe despising the UK”
No, you are believing the press. The only people who despise the UK are the politicians and they are despised by their own citizens.
Anyway, if it came to a 'war' I bet Trump would jump in just to duff the pansies up a bit. :o)
@ ElaineB
Dec 04th, 2016 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Yes, but it's all based on polls, which haven't been too reliable lately. I won't relax until all the results are in.
@ ChrisR
If the EU had a combined army, and upped spending to US levels, they could potentially be as strong as the US forces. Do you think the British army could beat them?
Of course that's not likely, but it will still be several times bigger and stronger than ours. If you think numbers and spending don't matter then you are a fool.
As for Brexit, I think you're dreaming. They aren't going to give us any better deal than what we had before, they can't afford to. If they give us a deal in one area they will just shaft us in another.
As to the countries fighting, yes, to some extent of course they do. Each one has different interests. However, at the moment they are all trying to cooperate as well, and they know they depend on each other. Not to mention that a decent number of people actually believe in European integration and cooperation, and at the moment many of them are in charge.
Your desire is to replace them with inexperienced far-right politicians who only care about their own countries - actually only parts of their own countries. How well will they work together?
And if Trump enters a war for such frivolous reasons, he deserves to be impeached immediately.
“More immigrants for Austria, aren't they lucky, NOT.”
Dec 04th, 2016 - 07:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Says the immigrant in Uruguay.
@DT That “cake and eat it” document snapped outside Number 10 wasn't actually about Brexit it referred to Wonder Woman's plan to remain in the EU!
Dec 04th, 2016 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Knobs like Junker, Tusk and Van Rumpoy etc may despise the UK but wherever I have been just recently the ordinary folk admire us.
@ The Voice
Dec 04th, 2016 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +1That is not true at all. The PM will do what the people voted for and we will leave the EU. WHat it referred to was leaving but retaining a good deal with Europe.
@Elaine - British sense of humour, please engage… ;-) But… it makes sense anyway… .
Dec 04th, 2016 - 07:48 pm - Link - Report abuse +2ChrisR...
Dec 04th, 2016 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Do you understand what the words common enemy mean....
Every power needs one...ask the USA...
....I say you are probably not worried being thousands of miles away...then you claim...“So you are a puppet of The Lunatic of Chewbutt?”
...I missed the quantum leap there...
You also might want to explain how one transits from having no trade deals to having lots of trade deals without a period of no trade deals....
Hard Brexit means recession without a doubt...
Probably not a great worry for someone thousands of miles away...
Damn that makes me a puppet again....
@ The Voice Ha! O.K. :)
Dec 04th, 2016 - 08:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Inflation is already starting to creep in with the pound falling so far.
EU Army
Dec 04th, 2016 - 08:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +1this has to be the third biggest joke this year,
if they cant even maintain the basic 2% they will not come up with 4%,
this other 2% is what the EU dictators want, on top of the NATO 2%
so unless they fully intend to withdraw from NATO at some stage, then its a dead duck,
Europe will stand or fall depending on the people and the unelected 5 presidents that sit on the pedestal aloft,
nothing to do with the UK,
the British government has stated we will contribute and help, we will keep up with all standing agreements and military commitments,
As for divided , lets be fair here, without the yanks supporting Europe, it would have collapse years ago, the yanks pay for over 70% of NATO and thus Europe's defence in co,
Just my opinion of course,
p/s Austria the right has failed so no panic here,
and we await the result of Italy, and the Eu and the banks are very nervous, so they say.
@The Voice
Dec 04th, 2016 - 08:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I haven't been but I know people who have and have a friend who lives in Germany. According to them most people think we are crazystupid, and some think we are whiny Special Snowflakes who want everything our own way and don't play well with others.
Of course, the people they know are probably not the same ones you talked to. They'd be mostly young professionals, the kind of people who support the EU even in Britain.
@ DT
Dec 04th, 2016 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It is true that the majority of people I speak with in European countries cannot understand why we left. They put it that the U.K. always got the biggest slice of the cake so why did we leave?
@DT I go to Bavaria a couple of times a year to a small company I do a bit of work for. At first my friends there were shocked, but since Mrs Mutti's huge refugee tide, opinions have changed somewhat. Germany is surrounded by invaders Czechs, Hungarians Poles. They are more used to foreign guests than we are.If your car is stolen the joke is that its probably in Poland. The attitude is now Britain is leaving. There is a sad feeling of loss and dismay.
Dec 04th, 2016 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +1If they hadn't lied in the 70's this wouldn't have happened. It will be painful.
Engrish DemonTree says
Dec 04th, 2016 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -4“Some think we are whiny Special Snowflakes who want everything our own way and don't play well with others.”
I say...:
Don't say...!
;-)))
@ ElaineB
Dec 04th, 2016 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Ah, but we didn't really have the biggest slice of cake. It's just that we demanded double jam and no icing, and we insisted on an 'L' shaped slice to boot.
And the REAL problem was that we never wanted cake in the first place, but were told we'd be getting some other dessert. :)
@ The Voice
I think it's very true that other countries were always more used to having foreigners around. Having to get a ferry really does make it harder to meet the neighbours.
But if opinions have changed among the public, I hope that will filter through to the leaders in time to make a difference.
@ Think
I knew that would make you way too happy. But I do think there is some truth in it, especially where the EU is concerned.
@ DT Haha. Enough of the dessert analogies. :)
Dec 04th, 2016 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@ The Voice Yes, it is the 'we are part of Europe but not really' island mentality.
It seems the Italians have rejected reform to their constitution. Not to be confused with anything to do with leaving the E.U. Their P.M. is likely to resign and that will not help their economy at all.
Pity Italy rejected reform it sorely needs it. We had a great relationship with Europe before 1974. Hitch hiked and did casual work all over with no probs. Look forward to similar in the future. @Elaine, we are an island yes but we are looking forward to more engagement with the wider world and more export activity which is what we badly need. The EU is protectionist. It may not be that straightforward but now at least we have begun address it seriously like we did back in the 60s.
Dec 04th, 2016 - 11:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +2@ The Voice
Dec 04th, 2016 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1We have always traded far and wide in the world, it is where our wealth came from. The EU is definitely protectionist and we will be on the outside.
You are right about Italy. It desperately needs reform. A friend of mine pays around 85% taxes on her business. The qualification for a politician's pension is one term. The problems are endless and a big problem is too much regional power. It doesn't work because of the inequality of the regional economies.
That said, it is a country I love to visit and hop over there four or five times a year.
The Voice
Dec 05th, 2016 - 01:19 am - Link - Report abuse -4You are an old man...you think like an old man and you have probably been talking to old men...that's what old men do...
The Europeans I have been speaking to are a younger generation...a generation that have never known a Europe that the UK was not a part of....
Shock, disbelief, progressing to resentment and anger at the British vote..
I have friends that have been trading on the continent importing cars and motorcycles to the UK...classics....
They are now getting knocked back left right and centre the Europeans don't want to know...
Save your Bavarian tales of sadness and dismay for suckers that believe your propaganda...
..and try and keep your nose out of a future that you will not be around to witness and should never have been allowed to shape..
...old man...
Well, what an outburst. Its not really suprising, just what we have sadly come to expect from the foetus's that are having difficulty maturing. As a matter of fact my leather trousered chums are all ages. Have you finished the drawings for Mrs McTavish's dog kennel yet? Unfortunately folk of my generation are more likely to come out and vote and its them who are largely determining the future you will be getting ;-) You can always emigrate to RGland. I am sure you will enjoy life life in a villa… No, not that sort, Think Cardboard. :-)))
Dec 05th, 2016 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0My apologies to other older people that don't have their head stuck in the ground and are not dreaming of bygone days when Britannia ruled the waves...
Dec 05th, 2016 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse -2It's a competitive world out there and countries are no longer falling over themselves to form a queue...
@ DT
Dec 05th, 2016 - 11:39 am - Link - Report abuse -5“If the EU had a combined army, and upped spending to US levels, they could potentially be as strong as the US forces. Do you think the British army could beat them?”
Short answer NO!
You clearly have no experience or knowledge of fighting with a modern army such as the UK.
Do you think that their battle skills were learnt from a book or hard won in comber?;
Many of the present EU countries operate their so called 'armies' on a part time basis: they go home for the weekend for starters;
But the REAL problem is who would lead this so called army you are so awed by? In reality NOBODY! The Generals of the individual states would be fighting tooth and claw to make themselves the head honcho;
OR it would be somebody like Junckner to 'ensure' the politics win out;
And what of the makeup of this rag-taggle 'army'?
The Spaniards? Apart from a few units of special forces yiy can forget them;
The Italians? I suppose Bertorelli from Allo-Allo can come out of retirement (or the grave) and advise on the chicken feathers;
The French? Now we are getting close to reality, but they are more likely to fight their old adversary - the Germans (and I am not joking);
The German Army is a first rate, highly motivated, well equipped, well led army and presents the real threat to the UK (and the French, the Spanish, the Italians).
Finally, from an army perspective: how long will all this take? The politics, can't say, the leadership, same thing, TRAINING the disparate elements to TRUST each other * probably never.
* it is a fact that the individual, highly trained forces have their orders 'from above' but they fight and die FOR EACH OTHER MEMBER OF THEIR UNIT.
And, if that's not enough, now the real killer: how much will it cost and who will be paying for it?
“And if Trump enters a war for such frivolous reasons, he deserves to be impeached immediately”
It was actually a joke, lighten up a bit, anyway the congress and representatives may agree.
@ ChrisR
Dec 05th, 2016 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse +2To DT “You clearly have no experience or knowledge of fighting with a modern army such as the UK.”
Have you? You never mentioned your career in the armed forces fighting in wars.
@ ChrisR
Dec 05th, 2016 - 12:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +2“Short answer NO!”
So you agree with me that the British army could not beat a combined EU one? Glad to hear it!
“You clearly have no experience or knowledge of fighting with a modern army such as the UK.”
And your experience is...?
Most of the present EU armies, including all those you mentioned, are ALREADY part of a combined international force: NATO. And NATO seems to be perfectly able to decide on leadership, train together, and coordinate the forces of different countries. Asking those same armies who already work together for NATO, and presumably already trust each other as a consequence, to do the same as part of an EU army does not seem like an insurmountable problem.
Or perhaps you believe that NATO is purely a US force, and none of the other countries' armies, including Britain's, actually contribute anything?
As for the cost, I have never heard a Eurosceptic complain that the EU has any difficulty in spending money before!
Well the USA lost against Vietnam, so having a massive conventional military guarantees nothing,
Dec 05th, 2016 - 02:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +2National Defense + $0.9 trillion
this is what the USA spends on average for its military .
We spend about 37 billion.
mind you , what this has to do with Austria's Sunday presidential election , I don't know..
Its completely different to the 30s, Hitler was a last resort after a series of failed governments. When he got into office he had a La Campora style bully boy army and just ordered sweeping changes. No modern dictator could get away with that. Italy however is another matter, who knows what will happen?
Dec 05th, 2016 - 02:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +3@ DT
Dec 05th, 2016 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse -4You are getting more like EB with every post. I will remind you of your own post to me as you seem unable to grasp it yourself:
““If the EU had a combined army, and upped spending to US levels, they could potentially be as strong as the US forces. Do you think the British army could beat them?””
IF the laughable EU Army could actually do what you say, they would be as big and as powerful as the American forces. I doubt that the UK could actually beat them and said so.
I also gave sound reasons why the EU Army will never take off, even if the EU managed to still be the EU in 5 years time.
“already work together for NATO, and presumably already trust each other as a consequence,” Have you thought of a career in comedy because that statement is laughable? I don't go in for 'assume', I trust that you know what happens if you do?
@ EB
“Have you? You never mentioned your career in the armed forces fighting in wars.”
You mean your professional dogs you have searching for me have not told you?
@ ChrisR
Dec 05th, 2016 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +2So you have never served in the armed forces and have no professional experience or knowledge. Why not just say so?
@ChrisR
Dec 05th, 2016 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +4“I doubt that the UK could actually beat them and said so.”
Fair enough.
Do you think the Nato forces are ineffective since they are made up of many countries?
It has gone awfully quiet here, This is what usually happens……. waiting for it to drop off the board thinking everyone will forget.
Dec 06th, 2016 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse +4The USA will not continue to pay for the defence of Europe whilst its members wont defend themselves,
Dec 06th, 2016 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0sooner or later, something has to give.
Ha ha...ElaineB...
Dec 06th, 2016 - 02:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Anyone would think that you almost thrive on these little altercations...
Oh it's all gone quiet over there...
Oh it's all gone quiet over there...
Oh it's all gone quiet...
All gone quiet...
It's all gone quiet over there...
@ Voice
Dec 06th, 2016 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +4I thought it was a rather calm discussion but there are some important unanswered questions outstanding. That's all :)
Ah, it reminds me of the terraces, that singing.
'Bagger,
Dec 06th, 2016 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +3“Anyone would think that you almost thrive on these little altercations”
You're projecting again, little man.
You really are obsessed with tea bagging....
Dec 06th, 2016 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse -2...Troy
Or is there two Brit sycophants posting from North America, but not in the States...not using Yankee spellings...always butting in with the snide comments...
Give it up you are fooling no one...
Still no answer so I guess we can all safely assume ChrisR has absolutely no expertise or experience with regards to the armed forces. Just clearing that up before the thread drops off the board.
Dec 07th, 2016 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +2@ ChrisR
Dec 07th, 2016 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1In case you missed my question above:
Do you think the Nato forces are ineffective since they are made up of many countries?
@ElaineB
It has got very quiet in here...
@ DT
Dec 07th, 2016 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +2He is around, posting disparaging comments on another thread but as I explained, this is typical behaviour when he has talked himself into a corner. He waits for the thread to drop off the board, then denies it, then spreads falsehoods to undermine whoever challenged him.
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