MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
For the Falklands in 1982 the only opinion that mattered was that of PM Thatcher
For the Falkland Islanders the only opinion that mattered was that of Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and believing that Islanders would give up their homes and way of life for money, shows how little people understood the Falklands. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesStop rewriting history, it doesn't work.
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 08:22 am - Link - Report abuse -3The Junta fell because dictatorships never lasted very long in Argentina, the push for democratic elections always forced their hand quite quickly. Look at the length of dictatorships in Argentina compared to elsewhere. Argentina was the last country to “fall” in 1976, and the first to return to democracy in 1983. Only then all others followed suit.
So the war did nothing for Argentina that would had not had happened anyway. In fact, the war was a symptom of the illness (the Junta was done and that was their desperate maneuver for rallying the masses), and not the disease itself.
Fidel_CasTroll
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 10:01 am - Link - Report abuse +3Typical arrogance!
“However none of this happened, rather the contrary, the Falklands have experienced a spectacular development since 1982, and the defeat of the military helpéd Argentina return to the democratic and institutional path.”
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse +10Ironically Argentina benefited from the Falkland’s war insofar as its humiliating defeat prompted the people of Argentina to rise up and get rid of the military junta paving the way for a democratic government.
It’s a pity Argentina doesn’t show a bit of gratitude towards Britain and the Falkland Islander’s for facilitating this transition.
Typical arrogance is that of you and downunder, who can't even acknowledge that just perhaps, the citizens within a country have more to do with the course of events than any outside force could ever do. Fathom that.
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse -5Downunder, you are a revisionist LIAR, typical lying, deceitful, uninterested in the facts OZZER. So tell me, the other three times in the 20th century the military had to return power to the civilians, how is it that the UK was never involved and yet it happened anyway?
Please tell us how does in your wacky ARROGANT ANGLO mind, does it compute that in 4 similar situations, the circumstances around one situation was crucial for ALL 4 to occur, even though it was not present in the other 3??
The American's never accepted Argentine ownership of the Falklands:
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse +10In 1886 the Argentine government asked the United States to apply the ‘Monroe Doctrine’ to Britain’s presence on the Falklands and were told by the US Secretary of State that, ‘the resumption of actual occupation of the Falkland Islands by Great Britain in 1833 took place under a claim of title which had been previously asserted and maintained by that government. It is not seen that the Monroe Doctrine which has been invoked on the part of the Argentine Republic, has any application to the case. By the terms in which the principle of international conduct was announced, it was expressly excluded from retroactive operation.’ ( Report of Foreign Affairs submitted to the National Congress in 1887, Buenos Aires, 1887, p193-201).
(the Monroe Doctrine was US Foreign policy applying to Latin American countries that stated that the US would view any attempts by European powers to colonise or interfere with states in South America as aggression requiring US intervention).
Time for Argentina to drop the mythical Malvinas claim and move on.
Argentina's Illegitimate Sovereignty Claims: https://www.academia.edu/27599163/Argentinas_Illegitimate_Sovereignty_Claims_V2
Nostrils, that was the best comment from you in a VERY long time. Pity you had top ruin though in your next post. Whatever the rights and wrongs the junta's invasion was unlawful, but it did help the Tories win the next general election.
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse +3CasTroll is quite correct - losing the Falklands war had absolutely nothing to do with the Junta's demise ........... honest :-)
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse +1We will never know for sure.Will we?
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Fidelito is as his usual confused best, in denying the monumental nature of the role of the Falklands war defeat in hastening the end of the Argentine military government, as if that event were a mere coincidence. Fidelito also forgets that the legitimacy of the junta was enormously bolstered by the illegal invasion and that had it produced an outcome in some way favourable to Argentina, that military government would likely have continued for some time on the coat-tails of its little military adventure.
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +5The game-changing impact of that ignominious defeat as the determining factor is not only taught that way in Argentine schools but reflected in the histories written in the Spanish-speaking world, and even in the more civilised nations.
One of the better expressions of the impact of the defeat was that it was “decisive” in ending the military government. That notion of being decisive was reflected in an enormous amount of material in the argie press, including this one
“El final del conflicto cerró el capítulo de la dictadura y fue un factor decisivo para la reinstauración de la democracia....”
And here
“La derrota de Malvinas fue la derrota de la dictadura, le mostró al mundo a lo que podía llegar una dictadura que ya no sabía que hacer para mantenerse en el poder....la guerra fue la jugada final de la dictadura”
“...la derrota en la Guerra de Malvinas, fue el producto que sirvió para el derrocamiento del gobierno militar, acelerando se [sic] desgaste y llevando a Galtieri a renunciaren Julio de 1982...”
The defeat “accelerated” the fall of the junta:
“La derrota en la Guerra de Malvinas aceleró la caída del gobierno militar y la recuperación de las instituciones democráticas.”
In Spain we consistently see the same recognition:
“Malvinas: la guerra por unas islas que provocó la caída de la dictadura argentina”
Of course there was typical arrogance. You remind me of one of the horde “vitoriando” on the plaza in front of the Casa Rosada when the invasion took place and then when the Argentine army had to withdraw from the Falklands with their “tales between their legs” all support for the junta and the armed forces just disappeared!
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 01:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +4UK understood the Falkland Islanders well enough to free them from Occupation.
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Fidel Nostrils,
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 07:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“Typical arrogance is that of you and downunder, who can't even acknowledge that just perhaps, the citizens within a country have more to do with the course of events than any outside force could ever do”
Ha ha, oh the irony!!
In effect, you are confirming that Self Determination is a far more important influence on a country's destiny than outside influences- yep, the Falklanders wanted no part of Argentina then, or now!
Good post from Marti Llazo summarising. The Junta used it to turn public sight away from problems at home and it worked, and would have worked further except for a staunch risky military victory which was equally needed by the UK government at home !
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +3To quote Abba, the winner takes it all.
Funny how the CIA got it all wrong, hope they are better now to appease Mr Trump...
I was trying irony Golfcronie - and apparently failing :-)
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 11:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +2England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 11:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -7Argentina will cease to exist within 24 years.
Jan 22nd, 2017 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Margaret Thatcher was a deeply flawed individual but the two decisions that defined her legacy - her opposition to the power of some unions and her resolve regarding the Falkland Island's occupation - compel respect.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 02:56 am - Link - Report abuse +2Tobias: I'm not sure that your correct: given that support for Argentina's claim to the Falkland's crossed ideological divides and the militant opposition had mostly been crushed, don't you think it's possible that a military victory might have prolonged the junta's existence - perhaps even by years?
@H “...don't you think it's possible that a military victory might have prolonged the junta's existence - perhaps even by years?”
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 03:20 am - Link - Report abuse +4Very likely. And that was the case I presented earlier, since fidelito contends that the defeat in that war had no impact on the precipitous fall of the junta. However, the initial appearance of military success by the junta did breathe new life into its support and there is little doubt that they could have milked that support for years. Recall also that the junta was planning to invade Chile after tidying up the Falklands. The buildup for that could easily have sustained the military government for a time, but the inevitable losses of a real shooting war would have been harder to conceal and an inevitable stalemate or even defeat by Chile would likely have put the junta back in serious jeopardy.
And again you both show how ignorant you are of argentine history.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 03:59 am - Link - Report abuse -8The opposition had not been crushed, you and Marti Llazo are extremely confused about Argentina history. A certain ideological faction had been crippled perhaps (not crushed), but certainly the opposition to the Junta was, as always, deep everywhere. And since already a few times before they were forced to hold elections and hand over power, this time they went to the extreme of going to war in order to avoid that fate again.
You both talk about the “what if's”, which is ridiculous. I talk about what actually happened.
Fidel_CasTroll
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 06:27 am - Link - Report abuse +4Do you have anymore fairy stories to tell us?
@Tobias
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 07:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your opinion of my 'ignorance' notwithstanding, thank you, at least, for replying.
“Do you have anymore fairy stories to tell us”?
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse -5Didn't tell any thus far. But I have this one that was whispered my way recently:
“Global Britain will crush the EU at the negotiating table. We are far bigger, stronger, mightier, smarter, shrewder, than they are. We will take all we want from them: keep financial passport, keep 0% tariffs, keep the open market, and we will have to give nothing at all: full immigration checks for EUians, full tariffs to unwanted overregulated EUian products, no payments to the EU. Then the rest of the planet will beg to trade with us: USA, India, Australia, Brazil, China, all of them. We will make Britain and Empire again”.
A pretty popular fairy tale these days in some peripheral islands of the Eurasian landmass!
And here I thought that there was better mental health care available in Argentina.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse +2Better mental health care is such a lame comeback. And Argentines are mentally far healthier than just about any other nationality on the planet. In this country to say “I am going to see a shrink because of late I have had suicidal thoughts, or my mind is just out of control”, won't get you fired and ostracized from society, unlike in the backwards more primitive nations of Europe, Asia, and North America, and rest of Latin America and Oceania, and Africa, and Middle East, where even hinting of a mental illness is a life sentence.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 11:14 am - Link - Report abuse -4This is why you get completely wacked out ideas like Thatcher being a champion of self-determination. This fairly tale can only occur when people have little access or choice in mental healthcare. Because it takes some seriously mentally ill people to think she was, when all the way up to 1990 she was going around European capitals telling everyone about the “evil, bad Germans”, and how everyone should DENY SELF-DETERMINATION to the Germans and block reunification at all costs.
That is mental illness my friend, to not see the complete, unrestrained hypocrisy and the to dare claim Argentina violates a “principle”, that even your own leader you claim fought a ware to protect then spend most of the rest of the decade trying to deny it to others!
Fidel_CasTroll
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 11:59 am - Link - Report abuse +2“All the way up to 1990 she was going around European capitals telling everyone about the “evil, bad Germans”, and how everyone should DENY SELF-DETERMINATION to the Germans and block reunification at all costs.” The source of this delusion is?
@fidelito -- this time it's for real. Mental health is a real problem in Argentina. More than any other country I've known. I think the fernet and the yerba contribute to the madness.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Article: “In therapy? In Argentina, it's the norm”
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/28/health/argentina-psychology-therapists/
There's even a radio station here that broadcasts from one of the loony-bins.
The source of my delusion... and history book printed outside the UK!
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Yes I know, you will dismiss it as “fake news” or “alternate facts”. That is the fashion-du-jour in the US and UK government circles, blast the media and decree your own version of the truth. THe funny thing is you guys think this is clever, novel, thinking.
To say something isn't true because you can't disprove it. Yes, there is a monster standing next to you, right now as you read my post? You say there is nothing there?? Well I say PROVE it isn't!
That's exactly what the Trump and May governments do now, about any topic. But again, you are not very clever and late to the game... that is exactly what CHAVISTAS and others do.
So, yes, your governments are now down to the level of Bolivarian patriots. Congratulations!
Fidel_CasTroll
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +2“You say there is nothing there? Well I say PROVE it isn’t!” That is always the liars lament, when it is you who bears the burden of proof, since you’re the one making the claim not me. If you fail then you have once again revealed yourself as a proven liar.
“Burden of proof (or onus probandi in Latin) is the obligation on somebody presenting a new idea (a claim) to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant).
Fallacious shifting of the burden of proof occurs if someone makes a claim that needs justification, then demands that the opponent justify the opposite of the claim. The opponent has no such burden until evidence is presented for the claim.”
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof
@Terence Hill
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 02:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8251211.stm
Mitterrand was also opposed to German reunification, but the two were not able to prevent or even delay it.
Yes, the Trident system just had a miserable failure.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 02:09 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Prove it!
Well, everyone is reporting so.
Fake news.
That is the new Anglo-Saxon form of the ostrich at the sandbox strategy.
We have a country with nuclear weapons that has a delivery system that is an appalling failure. What could go wrong??
Anyhow, why does the UK have nukes anyway in 2020? Who is the big bad enemy with nukes out there that you still need them? Seems Germany and Italy, home of Einstein and Fermi as founders of nuclear science, get along just fine without them. So does Japan.
Fidelito, tell us again about your sophisticated alien software that you tell us controls artificial satellites and the movements of small rodents. Can I get an upgrade for my Alien Software v1.0? Will it be compatible with Windows Weasel 11?
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +3It turns out that Buenos Aires sports the highest percentage of residents in psychological therapy... anywhere in the world. There are more shrinks in Argentina than engineers. And nobody is surprised. Mental illness here is big business. Though it's unclear whether it's the yerba or the fernet that is responsible. And chronic peronismo is now classified as a form of mental illness. I'll wager you didn't know that. So much to learn.
And the news about that comes not from the UK or Latvia but from.... Argentina misma. Léalo y llore.
“Buenos Aires al diván: por qué la mayoría de los porteños va a terapia -- Argentina es el país con más psicólogos per cápita del mundo y Buenos Aires, una de las ciudades con más adeptos al psicoanálisis. Cómo se explica este fenómeno según los expertos ...”
Trident didn't 'just' have a failure, the test firing was last June and they kept it quiet until now.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +1What's it got to do with fake news?
Well, then goes the remotest trace of faith I ever had in the UK gov, that they would report swiftly on things good or bad. They aren't any better than an Iraqi spokespan official reporting on their resistance to the war of aggression by two rogue states.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 02:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -4@Marti Llazo
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 02:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It was remiss of me not to thank you for your response. Mea culpa.
@FC
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Don't be stupid, it would hardly be a wise for them to tell the world there was a problem until they had had a chance to work out what went wrong and hopefully fix it.
Besides, you've been saying on here for years that you have no faith in the UK government, and if you did you wouldn't admit it.
The only idiot who thinks having more access or supply of mental assistance is a bad thing is the troglodyte Marti Llazo.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -2I'm sure he also believes there is much less racism in Chile just because they have no INADI there for victims to report it to.
Fools will be Llazos.
Fundamental rule of economics - there would be huge number psychoanalysts in Argentina if there were not a need or a market.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 03:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Either the citizens are depressed and mentally ill, in sufficient numbers to support them, or there are enough Argentine narcissists and others who are willing to pay good money to have somebody listen to their inane self-centred ramblings.
Fidel Nostrils sounds like a case in point
And wrong again. The reason there are not more of them in your country is because you do not accept mental illness as a real medical issue, you instead discriminate, sneer, deprecate, ostracize, and even incarcerate those kind of people. Your society is simply not evolved enough to accept that the brain is just as much a physical body part as a broken rib or femur is.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse -4The result is, Europe, North America, Australia, Asia, people have no escape and no treatment. And thus why every few weeks you see some madman with a rifle, knife, or motor vehicle mowing down innocents in the street. Australia was the latest just a few days ago.
Ever wondered why there has never been a MASS SHOOTING, or MASS STABBING in modern Argentine history? The only country on Earth with a population over 10 million where this is the case? We are just better than you in this area. Accept it and move on.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/4-die-in-argentina-school-shooting/
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A 15-year-old student drew a handgun and opened fire in a school classroom in southern Argentina on Tuesday, killing four classmates and wounding five, authorities said.”
That wasn't hard to find.
@fidelito
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +2There are just so many examples of outbreaks of mental illness in Argentina to choose from. Why, didn't your little junta murder or disappear some 30,000 people? And isn't Peronismo a psychological disorder, and one that has a gatillo-fácil tendency to murder its opponents?
And then there was El Chucky not long ago. Fine example of the Argentine Madness.
“Matanza en Argentina: Joven baleó a ex novia, mató a ex suegra y a un vecino y se suicidó”
Didn't the Perón governments commit all sorts of massacres, including the one at Rincón Bomba involving mass murder of indigenous people?
And on and on. Fidelito's unwillingness to recognise all this is in itself a type of psychological disorder.
“Rosario: 19 homicides in 18 days...in merely 18 days, the city commonly known as Argentina’s Chicago has experienced 19 homicides. Violence appears to be a pernicious problem in the country’s third-largest city, that registered 248 murders last year...”
Argentina: un especie de País Matón.
@DT
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0For fairness sake, the facts are with Fidel. First of all, that happened in 2004, second and foremost, these kind of events where some psycho starts shooting people just out of the blues are very rare. I'd dare to say these events are rare in general in other SouthAm nations as well.
I wouldn't go so far as to affirm that shootings here are avoided because of the wide spread availability of therapists, but something is definitely different. For what I can deduce -not an expert at all in these matters- I think that our latin emphasis on family and friends give many nutjobs some extra contention.
I knew people would bring up that non-mass mass shooting in Patagonia, two reasons why it is not:
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -31) The official amount of deaths for qualification as mass shooting is 5 and above, since that is the number bigger than the typical 4-member family. And killings of entire families are actually rather common all over the world.
2) Because of the incredible rarity of that even in that school, it does not count against Argentina's record, since it was the one and only time even something remotely so has occurred up to now.
As for Marti Llazo, yesterday he said I was trotting facts from the past about the UK's colonial history, and the talk should be about today. Yet here he is above dredging events from 40, 60, 80 years ago to continue his psychopathic tirades against Argentina.
Then he brings up Rosario's problem by comparing with Chicago, AN ANGLO-SAXON City sees daily killings just as Rosario.
F-C
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +1We have a country with nuclear weapons that has a delivery system that is an appalling failure. Is that so?
Tell us what the problem was and is it deep routed in the guidance or propulsion system.
Also, the Trident missiles come from a joint U.S./U.K.pool.
“Following the acceleration of the U.S. Trident II D-5 programme, the existing Polaris Sales Agreement was modified in 1982 to permit the supply of the more advanced missiles.[6] Under the agreement, the UK would lease 65 Trident II D-5 missiles from a larger pool of weapons based at Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay in the United States. The U.S. would maintain and support the missiles and the UK would manufacture its own submarines, and warheads to go on the missiles”
All the UK does is fit it's own warheads so your remarks should be directed to the USA .
Why do Germany and Italy not have them ? Quite simple, they are not naval powers.
“Experts estimate that 10 to 20 nuclear warheads from the Cold War period are currently stored in Büchel, with German Tornado warplanes standing by to carry them if it is deemed necessary. The area is under strict protection, with some US soldiers also stationed there”.
So they are not anti-nuke.
Chicago's demographics :-
White 31.7%
Black 32.4%
Hispanic/Latino origin (of any race) 28.9%
Asian 5.4%
This is an Anglo-Saxon city ? Only by applying your twisted logic !
Murders by race in Chicago. http://wmbriggs.com/post/7168/
The figures hardly show a preponderance of white anglo saxon murderers.
@Nostrils. Just looking down your comments to make a few points.
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 06:33 pm - Link - Report abuse +21. Argieland doesn't have any 'history' because it gets rewritten every other day.
2. gordo1 correctly mentions the huge crowds in the streets celebrating the invasion of the Falkland Islands as evidence that argies are prepared to sink to any level to get what they want.
3. You demonstrate your mental incapacity by denying it.
4. And all those hysterical crowds had to learn within 2 days that the Security Council was telling them to get out. And displaying their mental illness by believing the junta telling them that they were winning. Did they think they'd get away with it?
5. You don't have to talk about what happened. I watched it all. Remember that, in the UK, we were getting the unedited live version. Even from inside argieland.
6. It is one of the features of your sickness that you suffer from delusions. For instance, where do you say your history book was printed?
7. We don't count Bolivarian patriots. We'll never get as low as argie liars.
8. We have nukes for the next time you step out of line. Only thing to do when animals are so far out of control that they threaten human beings.
9. Sorry to disappoint but Einstein and Fermi got out of Germany and Italy. They were getting too much like argieland.
10. There are few reported OUTBREAKS of mass shootings or mass stabbings in argieland for two reasons. Firstly because it's frequently the 'police' doing it and secondly because it's daily and has become 'boring'.
11. And Chicago isn't really an Anglo-Saxon city. It's more Italian. Oops, another element of the argie racial mix.
See, you're just in denial. Are you getting treatment? You've been told many times that you need it. Because you're a nutjob.
@TF & FC
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +2FC didn't say rare, he said “there has never been a MASS SHOOTING, or MASS STABBING in modern Argentine history? The only country on Earth with a population over 10 million where this is the case?”
2004 is modern history, and it's silly to say it doesn't count because it was only once. Plus there is no chance FC checked all the other countries mentioned.
Having said that, it could be true that there are less of that sort of killings in Argentina and other South American countries. I don't think there are any statistics comparing countries on this, and it might be hard to compare if they all use different definitions (I think the US requires 4 or more murders, for example).
Also are you including terrorist attacks? They seem much more common than random psychos here in Europe, and I'm not sure those have much to do with psychiatry.
I do agree mental illness should be treated as a real medical issue, anyway. It's chronically underfunded in Britain unfortunately, so not enough is done. I don't think it's taken seriously enough.
@Clyde15
You know FC thinks anyone who speaks English is an Anglo, whatever their race.
Actually, Fidel, do you consider Miami an Anglo city? It had 70% Latino population in the last census.
@ fidelito “ .....Chicago, AN ANGLO-SAXON City...”
Jan 23rd, 2017 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Actually Chicago is more of an African city that has levels of crime and corruption that approach those of Argentine cities.
Marti Llazo is at it again, spewing non-stop contempt of a whole country--a country where he allegedly resides and makes a living.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 03:55 am - Link - Report abuse -4He scoffs at the high number of psychoanalists in Buenos Aires, likening it to a would-be high level of mental illness.
He demonstrates crass ignorance. Psychoanalists are not psychiatrists, and many who undertake psychoanalisis seek to improve their life by getting rid of unconscious mechanisms acquired at an early age that blocks parts of their funcionality and capacity to enjoy life.
Now, for an individual to spend a good part of his free time, month after month writing rancourous posts about a country that, as any other, has its good and bad traits, suggests a deeply troubled state of mind.
Toby: we spent A$8 billion as recently as the 2013/14 fiscal period on mental health funding. Other things you are doubtless unaware of are frequent public service advertisements encouraging those with depression to seek help - and there are many private and public resources available to facilitate that assistance. The public attitude to mental illness has changed significantly over the last two decades, and your claims are just so much hyperbolic, resentful bullshit.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 04:24 am - Link - Report abuse +1...and even though it's obvious to those of us who have witnessed the effects of nihilistic rage, fyi just because someone needs help doesn't mean they're willing to seek it.
CHICAGO, ANGLO-SAXON CITY. Just like DETROIT.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 10:13 am - Link - Report abuse -2Why you all trying to distance your culture and race from those two cities?
What about Miami, Fidel? If you moved to the USA would you become an Anglo?
Jan 24th, 2017 - 10:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0The UK not fighting for the Falklands would have only given the junta a few more months in which to start a fight with chile. Whose death toll would have dwarfed the falklands war.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse +1The Junta never expected to fight for the Islands and made a complete hash of the war from the start. Against Chile the war would have dragged on both sides evenly matched and able to throw conscripts at one another.
What about Miami? Why do you ask me about Miami? I have never been there nor have any interest. But I thought you brought it up because the crime is out of control there. I looked it up, because I rarely hear anything out of Miami, and sure enough, crime is at multi-decade lows even as the city is more HISPANIC than ever. Apparently a lower crime rate than many other big US cities.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse -1So obviously the link between HIspanic Race and crime does not exist, if that is what you meant. Miami was far more ANglo in the 70s and 80s and crime was out of control then.
I didn't pick Miami because it had a high crime rate, I have no idea how it compares to other cities. I just wondered if you'd still consider it an Anglo city because it's in the USA, even thought it has a majority Hispanic population. And you still haven't answered the question.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 12:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Also despite what 'tough on crime' politicians and the media would have you believe, crime rates have been falling across the US since the 90s. I have no idea if they have fallen more in Miami than other cities, but IMO the biggest link is between crime and poverty/inequality, not race. (For the kind of crimes that usually get caught and prosecuted, anyway.)
We seem to have been taken quite off topic by Snr. Nostrils
Jan 24th, 2017 - 02:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +1However, he demonstrates the same unwillingness to accept accountability for his actions as the rest of the indoctrinated Argentine population that says the Falklands War was the fault of the “evil junta” or the British provocateurs, or British “Sepoys” seditiously undermining Argentina.
Lighting,
Jan 24th, 2017 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Please refer to Martin Woodhead's comment above. I think his grasp of the situation is correct. The Junta had the political need to have something happen just to cope with the rising bad mood due to some very negative economic circumstances. They had tried with the Beagle conflict in 78, they got their problem in 82. Of course they never expected to fight. They miscalculated and were not ready for serious warfare.
I was 12 at the time and remember my father, and other grown ups as well, very concerned about what would happen and stating that the milicos were crazy.
So not everybody is brain washed here.
Tarquin,
Jan 24th, 2017 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Thanks for that account and your insight.
It is indeed good to see that not everyone is brainwashed.
I am sure there are many educated and thinking Argentines.
Unfortunately, we hear the howling of the likes of FC the loudest, and even that was a reflection of the official propaganda of the previous government.
My comment was really addressing Nostril's, who seeks to blame everyone else and outside forces for Argentina's actions.
As was pointed out by another poster, the invasion of the Falklands was promoted as a “liberation” and justified retribution, celebrated by millions in the streets - “yay, we did it!”
Yet now, when faced with criticism, the invasion is blamed on a junta that did not represent the people - “that wasn't us!”
I understand why FC and others say what they do, and contradict themselves as they do.
FC accepts no accountability and demonizes other ethnicities.
I know he does not speak for all Argentines, but he voices many of the common themes.
Your contributions and insights are always interesting reading and give a refreshing perspective. Thanks
It's not I think everyone else is to blame for Argentina's problems. I am not after all British blaming the EU for everything and thinking that once we are out the Thames will flow honey and the trees will grow silk.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 03:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -3I am saying that outside of Argentina there is no one decent to have dealings with.
Hey Nostrils!
Jan 24th, 2017 - 04:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Trying to divert the thread? Well let me tell you the truth.
The ARGENTINE military JUNTA invaded the Falklands and they became extremely popular with the people of Argentina. Mainly because they had been brainwashed into believing that the British had stolen the Falklands and were 'oppressing' the people who lived there.
Now the Argentine soldiers sent to the Falklands expected to be liberating a Spanish speaking Argentine population. It was only when they got there that they realised that the people there had NEVER been oppressed, were NOT Spanish speaking, and were now being oppressed by the Argentine military.
Now, typical of Argentine arrogance, the Military Junta did not believe that the British would bother themselves over the Falklands...after all it was ONLY a few thousand people, and in the minds of Argentines minorities don't matter (such as Native Amerindians, black people, jews etc...).
However, they underestimated both the British Prime Minister and the will and determination of Her Majesty's Armed Forces.
So despite Argentina have more modern aircraft and missiles, larger numbers of troops, an extremely short supply line, a decent sized navy and 'supposedly' the desire to 'liberate' Las Malvinas, Argentine was humiliated by the British who had to travel 8,000 miles and fight from the sea onto land. THAT was UNHEARD of in military doctrine. It couldn't be done they said.
Why did Argentina lose? Well because you can be very brave when threatening unarmed civilians, and its easy to kill unarmed civilians. But they're not quite so brave or willing to die themselves when another armed force takes them on.
The British on the other hand, though lacking modern aircraft, missiles, and were constrained by how much they could actually bring with them, fought to free and protect civilians lives.
In other words the British held the morale high ground. And Argentina surrendered.
That's what annoys you the most, isn't it? That Argentina LOST.
Lightning,
Jan 24th, 2017 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +3And you are not mistaken, it was celebrated by millions in the streets -me and my teachers included- as we had just won the football world cup. So the brainwashing existed and it does indeed exist up to this day in certain political groups and some air head celebrities (don't even want to get started on that). Thanks for your comment.
Fidel,
Why shouldn't we be able to find somebody decent to deal with outside of Argentina? At least my personal experience totally contradicts your idea.
The Falklands are British and for the islanders sake it was good that the UK fought. Period.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -2My experience on the internet suggest a completely different picture of foreigners. And the actions of their governments is all the evidence I need. The British invaded another country only 13 years ago and deny any culpability, they talk about the hordes celebrating the Fakland's invasion, casting moral judgement on the population as guilty, yet they can't even bring themselves to arrest and try Tony Blair for war crimes. They ain't kidding anyone and that's why I fight them, I am allergic to hypocrisy.
Tobias/Nostrils/Fidel,
Jan 24th, 2017 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +2You must by highly allergic to yourself, because you are the biggest hypocrite on this site.
I've got a long memory and remember many of the things you have posted in the past.
Such as: The Falklands can be British, as long as the British 'give' Argentina the Antarctic.
or: Argentina WILL take it's sovereignty case to the International Courts of Justice... but only when the Judges are biased towards Argentina and can guarantee a ruling in Argentina's favour.
Then there is the numerous times you've 'pretended' to be Native Amerindian, African, or Asian, to try and 'bolster' your own arguments and to 'prove' that the 'whole' world supports Argentina's attempts to steal the Falklands.
Or how you constantly rage on about Europeans causing all the ills of the world...whilst convenient 'forgetting' that Argentina is a product of Spanish European colonialism.
Or how you bring up the history of the British Empire to 'prove' the British are 'bad'...but then cry foul when Argentina's less than stellar history...such as genocide of the Native Amerindians, or the mass murder of African slaves and the whitening policy Argentina had...is brought up.
Yup, you must really be highly allergic to the mass hypocrisy that you constantly spout.
There have been many impostors of my persona, so I am not surprised. But if there is one thing I have always been consistent about is the Falklands for the people of the Falklands, and will keep repeating it.The Falklands is a sickness in the minds of many argentines and it is about the only thing I agree with the British about.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -3And I don't want the British to give Argentina Antarctica, you have nothing in fact to give in legal terms.
I never talk about the ICJ because I don't think Argentina should be part of it, it should withdraw immediately.
Argentina is not the product of European colonialism, we are the only country in the Ameriacs that is not. The other Latin American countries had a caste system with the Spanish at the top and thus you see the segregation today in strata from Mexico, to Central America, to Peru, Colombia, Chile, Venezuela, Ecuador, where the Spanish white elite still dominates.Canada and the United States are also the product of European colonialism, with well established colonies that had displaced the natives well before their independence.
Argentina was a bacwater in 1810 with only a few scattered towns and outposts. Argentina allowed people to freely come in, not forced people from Africa like the EUROPEANS did, or steal the land from the Natives like the North Americans did. Argentina never signed any treaties with the Natives, thus it was a constant state of war and therefore no theft occurred. The North Americans on the other hand did sign treaties RECOGNIZING their lands, and then went back on those treaties a half dozen times, from the Southeastern USA, trail of tears, to Florida, to the Dakota territory, and the even the Indian territory which was supposed to be inviolable, but of course...
ANGLOS will be ANGLOS.
Broke the treaty yet again.
That is the difference, our gains from the natives were from legitimate war, and all the settlers to Argentina FREE of choice. The rest of you stole the land and enslaved others to come
@FC
Jan 24th, 2017 - 04:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Are you happy to be judged on the actions of your governments, of both CFK and Macri? What about all the people who didn't vote for the ruling party, and disapprove of what their government is doing?
And the internet is always full of idiots; people act differently when they are anonymous. Do you really think that people from Argentina act any better than foreigners? How can you even tell where they are from unless they tell you?
All my life I have been judged by the actions of my government by foreigners.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Been called a Nazi for Peron's policy (which was the same policy of Churchill and Truman after the war, harbor Nazis). But Anglos only call Argentina a nazi haven, not themselves. Because the USA shot a rocket to the moon all on their own...
Been called an indian genocider for the actions of Argentino Roca (on the 100 bill, which of course conveniently forget Andrew Jackson on the US 20 bill was also an indian genocider). But anglos have no problem with him, only Roca.
Been called a coward for not fighting in WWII... yet the people doing the name calling never list the reasons Argentina should have joined the war. What was the threat to us? What was in it for us? Nothing and Nothing. Of course all of those people that insult Argentina and me over it's “cowardice” in WWII, say nothing to the Swedes and Swiss... but no that is no double standard.
And many other things I am not bothered to list right now. Heard them since even before arriving at this site. IT is all those things that turned me against the foreign fiend. They are racist against us, hold double-standards, one for Argentina and one for themselves and everyone else, and always have tried to undermine Argentina.
My isolationist stance is not out of thin air. It has its firm ground in the disaster that occurs every time we trust the foreign fiend.
“All my life I have been judged by the actions of my government by foreigners.”
Jan 24th, 2017 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +3So you are not happy about it, you know damn well that it's wrong and unfair, but you decided to do the same yourself anyway? You're wrong and you know it, and the people saying those things probably know they are wrong too. It's perfectly obvious that people are not all the same, whatever country they live in.
I don't understand why you want to become the thing you hate.
So, suggest an alternative then.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Tobias/Nostrils/Fidel
Jan 24th, 2017 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +3They were not imposters...they were YOU. You even admitted to it when you were called out on it.
My, my it must be so difficult to remember what you've said when you tell so many lies.
As for calling you out on Argentina's past...such as genocide...we ONLY did that because you were bad mouthing the UK and USA and making wild and unsubstantiated statements along the lines that Argentina had NEVER, EVER in its history done anything bad.
I also remember you arguing vehemently about how it wasn't Argentina that started it, the natives fought against Argentina's stealing of their land, and how they deserved to be killed. I also remember you said...'it was only a 'few' thousand that were killed', as if killing a few thousand members of a race that only numbered a few thousand in the 1st place doesn't make it genocide. And then finally you touted the line that the natives murdered by Argentina weren't from Argentina anyway...they were from Chile...as IF the Native Amerindians split up South America along the same lines that the Europeans did!
Your arrogance is colossal...only outdone by your ignorance and self-denial.
As for double standards...it is YOU that applies them with 'Argentina is 'perfect' and can do no wrong', but when it's pointed out that Argentina ISN'T perfect and can and does do wrong you immediately shout 'racist' and then go on a completely racist rant.
I recall when several native Amerindians had been murdered by Argentine authorities a few years ago. Other native Amerindians protested against the glorious Argentine Government, and YOU went on a racist rant against them...you who only the day before were telling EVERYONE how YOU were a native Amerindian yourself (thinking it would bolster your credibility), and then suddenly you HATED them for DARING to speak AGAINST Argentina.
You are a hypocrite. You are a hate filled racist. You are a liar.
I have a long memory. I know exactly what you are.
@FC
Jan 24th, 2017 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Continue to point out when people are wrong or hypocritical, defend Argentina if you think it is in the right, but if you don't agree with what your government does or some celebrity says then simply say so. Try not to be hypocritical yourself, and only criticise Britain or other countries when they have actually done something wrong.
Oh, and realise that the other 7 billion people in the world are not all evil fiends plotting to undermine Argentina, because that makes you sound crazy.
FC,
Jan 24th, 2017 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +4IMHO DemonTree is right. I do not intend to patronize you, but you will find that it isn't true that most of the foreign nations are on a quest to destroy Argentina. In fact, a great part of the troubles we've got now comes from our own lack of comitment in building a good country to live in because of so many foolish disputes which result in greedy “locals” taking it all for themselves. Just a thought, but worth bearing in mind.
LepRecon
Jan 24th, 2017 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“Tobias, Nostrils etc.
They were not imposters...they were YOU. You even admitted to it when you were called out on it.”
Exactly right!!
And I remember clearly as a fake Scottish Troll how you went on a racist rant about how the indigenous Indians were a subhuman race”
You are a fake Scottish Troll...?
Jan 24th, 2017 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Or typical dumb Canadian English...
Tarquin Fin is completely correct. Our problems here in Argentina are entirely self-inflicted wounds. Other than the terrible economic harm that has been caused to Argentina by the Latvians.
Jan 24th, 2017 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Oh my God!! Have we been exploited by the Latvians too?! This is outrageous. Where is La Campora when you need them?!!!
Jan 24th, 2017 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +1TF
Jan 24th, 2017 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +1According to somewhere on the Internet, Latvians are known Argentina-haters.
@TT
Jan 24th, 2017 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +2What was the name of this fake Scottish troll?
@DT
Jan 24th, 2017 - 11:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +1calls itself “voice”.
Not it's real name.
To be a fake one would need to be assuming an identity...
Jan 25th, 2017 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0My only identity is a Voice...
Sooo...who is this fake Scottish Troll...?
Still struggling with English...Puppet...there shouldn't be an apostrophe in its...
ps...your English is no better as Kanye either, it's always the little mistakes that no one notices..
Apart from me, that is....;-)))
To be clear,
Jan 25th, 2017 - 01:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0fake Scottish, troll.
Who is..?
Jan 25th, 2017 - 01:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0I don't have any other identities. I always make clear in my names who I am. Never had two accounts and you are all welcome to as Mercopress. I give them authorization to tell you how many accounts I have.
Jan 25th, 2017 - 08:59 am - Link - Report abuse -1@FC
Jan 25th, 2017 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your Truth_Telling_Troll was a different account to the one you are using now.
TTT was a God. Cannot compare me to him.
Jan 25th, 2017 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse -1In the B.TTT era, I had a different persona. Willing to listen and understand foreigners. in the A.TTT era, I have always had the same persona as now. But always ONE account at anyone time. Sure I have had to open I believe in total 4 times a new account due to banning, I will admit to that. But never TWO accounts at the same time. I follow the rules here, I am not an anglo.
It is well known TTT had many impostors at the time, at least two that used the exact same name, and a few others variations. TTT, just like Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed, Viracocha, etc, many tried to fool people into thinking they were the real one.
You were banned 4 times? What did you do?
Jan 25th, 2017 - 11:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0Probably overstepped my freedom of expression bounds, of which thankfully Mercopress holds fairly latitudinarian views on. For that I respect this website. It allows views to be expressed, including the truth which I provide.
Jan 25th, 2017 - 12:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Banned for being annoying Toby...
Jan 25th, 2017 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Remember all that disc jockey FM stuff...
...Annoying and insane....
TrollFM, I had forgotten about that. The glory days of broadcasting.
Jan 25th, 2017 - 12:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tobi Nostrils,
Jan 26th, 2017 - 12:42 am - Link - Report abuse +2“It is well known TTT had many impostors at the time, at least two that used the exact same name, and a few others variations. TTT, just like Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed, Viracocha, etc.”
LOL, what conceited blowhard!
Tobi comparing himself to Jesus.
Well it was only a matter of time...
:-D
@TT
Jan 26th, 2017 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0Not only that, but he's comparing himself to 'evil foreigners' who would surely have been plotting to destroy Argentina if it had actually existed at the time. How inconsistent.
Stop ganging up on Toby...his experience of “Anglo's” is limited to the internet and in particular this forum...
Jan 26th, 2017 - 02:39 pm - Link - Report abuse +1He doesn't realise that if he ever actually visited the UK that folk would be more likely to tease him over football...“the hand of God” than blame him for the Falklands invasion and likely folk would not have even heard of CFK, Macri and the conquest of the desert...
Animosity does not exist in the UK towards Latin Americans... amongst 99% of the population...
That is not true, there is animosity towards Argentines, can't speak for the others but you are probably right. I have personal friends or friends of my parents who were “selectively” held at the entry point for the Eurotunnel... All those with Argentine passports were held longer than all the others. This event was 20 years ago, but it shows there is something there.
Jan 26th, 2017 - 03:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Voice is right, FC. 100% of the people I know IRL could not name CFK or Macri, and have never heard of the Conquest of the desert. And neither had I before I started reading this website. The Falklands just isn't a big thing here, it gets dragged out by the press now and then when something newsworthy happens or the military want more funding. Some people dislike foreigners in general but not Latin Americans in particular, there aren't enough of them to notice. You can't draw conclusions from one incident that happened before you were born.
Jan 26th, 2017 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +1That's right. Let's all relax and start learning from each other.
Jan 27th, 2017 - 06:39 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Meanwhile, it's Friday already, the weekend is looming and speaking of Cristina, here is the song that will top the charts during the next few days. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvqvm_nYbFE
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