MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
EC president Juncker remembers UK's Brexit includes a “very salty” exit bill
A future relationship between Britain and the European Union will take years to negotiate and the UK can expect a hefty bill as the price of exit, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has warned. Mr. Juncker said Britain must understand that it will not be able to negotiate a “cut-price or zero-cost” exit from the EU, but will have to settle the bill for commitments which it entered into as a member. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesBasically he is saying, we will give you nothing and you will give us up to 60 million.
Feb 25th, 2017 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse +3What can they do if we say no. Declare war ?
He can whistle for it !
Haha! The deluded ex Mayor of the Trumpton German tax haven. One of the muppets we won't miss when we leave. The Euro will collapse shortly. The Germans have screwed the Club Med countries and France wholesale and at last they are waking up.
Feb 25th, 2017 - 12:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +4“Will have to settle the bill for commitments which it entered into as a member”. Unless that is specific requirement under the various EU Charters. The UK will have no such obligation to pay anything once it triggers article 50.
Feb 25th, 2017 - 12:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +6They will never learn , never change or never listen,
Feb 25th, 2017 - 12:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +3the only thing they have learned apparently, is how to fail,
no money will pass to them, unless ???????????
Politics, we never learn...
Tell you what, Mr Juncker, until and unless the EU has a full and completely independent audit on how it's been spending the money since day 1 of the UK's membership of the EU, then the EU can whistle for its money.
Feb 25th, 2017 - 03:58 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Let's face it, the EU has twisted and turned and avoided independent oversight, despite the UK requesting independent audits for years. The only reason to do that would be IF the EU bureaucrats had been squandering and stealing the money for years.
So you'll do anything to avoid that, won't you?
TWIMC...
Feb 25th, 2017 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Stop whinging... Engrishmen...
You ate all them free pretzels and peanuts...
Time to pay the €60 billion bill for all that lukewarm ale you quaffed..., laddies...
Threaten then praise...
Feb 25th, 2017 - 05:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Continental Europe doesn't quite understand the Brits...
That will not sit well at all...
A thousand years of European conflict and they still have not learned anything...
It ain't entirely continental Europe's fault Mr. Voice... isn'it...?
Feb 25th, 2017 - 06:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Free ? The UK has been a net contributor to the EC budget since year 1.
Feb 25th, 2017 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +3I can't see how we will owe them anything as they well and truly screwed us under their biased.( for France, Germany Italy and Spain ) CAP policies
I take it you are an advocate for the Argentinian characteristic of taking money but not repaying.
At least make an attempt to get your facts right ....., a chuilein......
Of course not Mr. Think I was merely stating that they do not understand British mentality...
Feb 25th, 2017 - 06:24 pm - Link - Report abuse -1The way they shrugged off Cameron's attempt to get concessions did not go unnoticed by the voting public and I was not entirely surprised by the results...
They were very surprised...
...and I'm expecting there will be a few more surprises yet to come...
Brits are nothing like their continental cousins...
Cue for a joke. What's the connection between Juncker, a stork and the taxman? They can all stick their bills up their @rse.
Feb 25th, 2017 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +5“The sum will cover the UK’s share of the cost of projects and programs which it signed up to as part of the 28-nation bloc, as well as pensions for EU officials who served during its 45-year membership.”
Feb 25th, 2017 - 07:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have known this for quite some time, no reason to repeat it, and of course the United Kingdom will fullfill its obligations towards projects and programs, which it signed up to.
Mr. Voice...
Feb 25th, 2017 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -4I know it is not your intention to make it sound like that..., but....
How would it sound to your British resident ears if I was to state that “they do not understand Argentinean mentality” if my Country was presented with such a huge bill from foreign creditors and tried to dodge its payment?
We are all humans, Mr. Voice... and most of us understand quite well other humans mentality...
No mater what the “Nationists” (just learned that word from Mr. Farage;-) want them Turnips to believe...
In a way I wish Maggie was still around, the unelected gnomes of Europe would be black and blue from handbagging incidents by now. Theresa is the master purveyor of the icy stare, not half as satisfying to watch.
Feb 25th, 2017 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +5Juncker and the rest of the EU functionaries have yet to understand that there are other ways for Britain to leave the EU than complying with their specified procedure. If their demands become too expensive and restrictive, they may get nothing.
Feb 25th, 2017 - 08:07 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Lowlander Clyde15
Feb 25th, 2017 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -4You obviously didn't get me point about them “free” pretzels and peanuts...
Why do you THINK that generous Publican serves you all those “free” salty snacks with your ale...?
Huhhhhh...?
Plus all the money to NATO that we and four others have had to make up for the loss of other EU nations that have failed to pay their share,
Feb 25th, 2017 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +6this amounts to billions over 70 of years,
plus all British contributions to Eu countries and part in their infrastructures,
they owe us, more than we will ever owe them,
they even want to dictate the talks now,
but at the end of the day, its not how much they can screw us for,
It how much our silly livered government is willing to pay them.
Still time will tell wont it..
Mr. Think
Feb 25th, 2017 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse -4I still don't understand my Yankee wife... she sometimes beggars belief...;-)
Clyde
Laddie... in Gaelic, good one...;-)
Lasses are a complete different story..., lad...
Feb 25th, 2017 - 08:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I hear there is a famous Yankee book that states they are from another planet... Venus, I Think...;-)
How much does the UK get to take out of the EU though?
Feb 25th, 2017 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I'm fairly sure there are a large number of projects where we are eligible for either a refund or ongoing payback.
Europe seems to think that this is a one-way street, and that only the UK will have to pay anything... I rather doubt that that is the case.
Think
Feb 25th, 2017 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +4What effing free gifts did we get from the EU ?
Unlike you, I have had first hand knowledge of verifying CAP claims and procedures and also IPR and END-USE duty reliefs consulting with International companies who boasted that they could get away with murder in other EC countries while the UK enforced the law to the letter to our detriment.
So we owe them nothing !
“ Mr Juncker used a French slang term to tell the Belgian Federal Parliament in Brussels that he expected the bill to be very “salty” – meaning hefty or pricey.”
Feb 26th, 2017 - 01:01 am - Link - Report abuse +4Before Juncker was appointed, the UK made it very clear to the EU commission that it didn't want him to become President of the EC, but in a display of its usual arrogance the EU went ahead with his appointment anyway, ignoring the wishes of one of the major stakeholders in the EU.
I suspect that every time Mr Juncker makes a public utterance on BREXIT, support for it increases in the UK.
The way things are going politically in France and the Netherlands at the moment, he could soon be EX President Juncker. But then he will be able to enjoy his ‘salty’ severance package.
According to this:
Feb 26th, 2017 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse +5http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21716629-bitter-argument-over-money-looms-multi-billion-euro-exit-charge-could-sink-brexit
“The bill comprises three main elements. All, in Brussels’s view, derive from the legal obligations implied by Britain’s EU membership.”
“Implied” no less, good luck with that in court, BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH.
Some nice Lawyer should explain to JC Wanker & Co that, for there to be a “legal obligation”, there must be a legal agreement defining the nature and extent of said obligation.
Where is that then?????
This is no more than a back of a fag packet calculation of how much they need to cover the spending gap for the next six years. No legal basis for it whatsoever.
Where agreements are contingent on membership, which most are, the agreement ends with membership unless otherwise stated, of these type of agreements the total is a few billion at best.
I particularly like the pension claim, where the UK has argued for decades that the EU pension system is fundamentally flawed, ultimately un-sustainable, ridiculously generous with no fund behind it, simply pass the problem and the cost onto the EU annual budget.
Responsibility for paying EU salaries and pensions rest solely with the EU annual budget, where it is the MEMBERS responsibility to pay their contributions to the budget. MEMBERS being the pertinent word here, no mention of ex members note.
The UK will not be paying a penny towards Mr Wankers exorbitant pension, however the rest of the EU will be paying the whole cost of Nigel Farage’s not quite so exorbitant pension.
The irony of it, is that “Salty” enough for you Mr Wanker????????
So trump may well have been correct over Sweden, now the worlds press are getting in on it, and the politicians deny it all,
Feb 26th, 2017 - 07:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +5and apparently on TV this morning,
Gina Miller launches new campaign
to stop us leaving.
just another Sunday then.?
As usual, the brits here are looking for excuses to not comply with their fair obligations.
Feb 27th, 2017 - 03:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -6“We should not pay because...”
Your country will pay, because if not an international court will make you pay. You cant screw the whole europe and get away with it, its not the 19th Century
LukeDig
Feb 27th, 2017 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +4“obligation - an act or course of action to which a person is morally or legally bound; a duty or commitment:”
So until you can meet your own burden of proof, we can file your claim-under the “fake news” category. As there is no known Anglo-European law /treaty placing such an obligation on the UK.
@LukeDig
Feb 27th, 2017 - 06:12 pm - Link - Report abuse +4They are free to take it to either the ICJ or Supreme Court in London.
If either court will agree to hear the case, difficult to sue for breach of contract, where there is no f*cking contract!!!!!!!
For there to be a “legal obligation”, there must be a legal agreement defining the nature and extent of said obligation.
You can’t just make them up when it suits you or you’re desperate.
If you’re going to talk about £50B “legal obligations”, you should expect to have to prove your case, “implied” in some other agreement simply does not cut it.
“Implied” doesn’t even get into court it’s not evidence, other than of the lack of any real evidence.
More than happy to take our chances in court with this one.
Simply a crass and frankly childish attempt by our erstwhile friends in Europe to extort money, for maybe negotiating a trade deal sometime later, if everyone agrees.
Sheer desperation, as they have little to offer in any negotiation, that they could all agree upon.
LD
Feb 27th, 2017 - 06:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Wishful thinking on your part promulgated as facts.
I understand that the UK is sending a delegation to Argentina to get advice from the Argies as to how we can get out of paying as they are very good at it.
Feb 28th, 2017 - 05:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +6Golf cronie
Feb 28th, 2017 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse +2You've got that right!
Just look at “Think/voice's” comment:
”...IF ( LOL) my Country was presented with such a huge bill from foreign creditors and tried to dodge its payment?”
Argentina is the poster-child for not honouring credit obligations, and theft of other peoples' property.
Meanwhile, no problem with UK credit rating.
Of course there is a breach to an obligation, of course there is a contract... Jesus, people...
Mar 01st, 2017 - 02:27 am - Link - Report abuse -2It does not take much proof to demonstrate there is a damage to the EU by leaving it.
LukeDig
Mar 01st, 2017 - 03:16 am - Link - Report abuse +3“Of course there is … It does not take much proof to demonstrate” That is what every liar claims when they are berift of any evidently proof what-so-ever. Your not the first, nor will you be the last liar that I’ve exposed.
@LukeDig
Mar 01st, 2017 - 04:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +2“of course there is a contract...”
Really, do tell, what contract would that be then????
Not one shred of evidence produced, this assertion cannot be sustained. End of that argument.
There is simply no such contract/agreement, which is why the EU talk in terms of “implied” “legal obligations”, rather than liabilities under article X of treaty Y.
Problem for the EU is that virtually every article of certainly every treaty refers to the rights, requirements and obligations of MEMBERSHIP.
Only mention anywhere of leaving is article 50 of the Lisbon treaty (note the use of supportable facts here). Which simply says, you give 2 years notice then negotiate leaving AND the future trading relationship (not one after the other as some in the EU want, which will change when they realise there is not going to be any free payout from the UK), after 2 years you leave whether anything is agreed or not.
Nothing else has ever even been discussed, never mind agreed, anywhere, ever.
You can be assured that after Brexit the EU will try and install a more comprehensive leaving procedure, with no doubt sever penalty clauses written in to it.
Somehow doubt they will get the agreement from all countries required to implement it.
For now however all that is “agreed” is article 50 (as described above) and a few £billion in commitments which state they go beyond membership.
Everything else is now a matter of negotiation.
Im a lawyer and you talk about legal arguments. Thats funny.
Mar 01st, 2017 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Wheter there is something written or not, there is a damage done by leaving. Therefore damage begets reparation even if the contract says nothing about a reparation.
To repair damages done is the most essential principle of justice. Without justice there is no valid legal system.
Of course we are aware that in anglosaxon culture if its not in the contract no matter how much damage or how much unfairness , you are screwed. Luckily enough, the judges wont be brits, so there is a shot at a fair reparation
LD
Mar 01st, 2017 - 08:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +2What “court” are you talking about ?
“To repair damages done is the most essential principle of justice.”
So, when will Argentina pay up for the damage and loss of life they caused in their invasion of British Territory in the Falklands and S.Georgia ? Thirty five years and waiting.
What a hypocrite you are !!
When you pay for the Lexington attack, and when you pay for both Buenos Aires invasions
Mar 01st, 2017 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -2@ LukeDig
Mar 01st, 2017 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +1You are most certainly not a lawyer. Nothing like. Except in your dreams maybe.
If something is not written down, it does not exist in contract law.
As for damages, this situation is entirely the result of the EU’s own actions, it is they who must pay us our share of the EU assets.
http://bruegel.org/2017/02/the-uks-brexit-bill-could-eu-assets-partially-offset-liabilities/
We can discuss what other compensation they owe us after that is settled.
Both “Operations” in BA were against the Spanish vice Royalty of the River Plate, legitimate acts of war during the Napoleonic wars, Argentina in any form did not exist, yet.
Best not to claim any knowledge of Anglo-Saxon culture, laughable at best.
LukeDig
Mar 01st, 2017 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Im a lawyer and you talk about…” You most certainly are not since you have not even mastered basic writing skills, since there are three errors in your last post, including spelling. Besides, the Treaty of Lisbon, gives the explicit right withdraw from the EU. Therefore, there is no legal breach period
Giggle...
Mar 01st, 2017 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Look at your own writing skills...
Isn't the word “to” missing from somewhere...?
You also place commas where they don't belong and have missed a full stop from the end of a sentence...;-)
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Mar 02nd, 2017 - 01:40 am - Link - Report abuse -1I'm not claiming to be anything. But, I can understand how you would view him as a kindred spirit. Since like you he proffers nonsense, which is readily dispatched.
Funny, can you speak or write spanish with any level near my english?
Mar 02nd, 2017 - 03:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0LukeDig
Mar 02nd, 2017 - 09:26 am - Link - Report abuse -2It’s you who is making the claims, therefore it is you who bears the burden. It is the same onus in any jurisprudence, of which you appear to have no inkling about. Which is confirmed by your own words, proving that you are a liar and not the lawyer you hold yourself out to be. You’re wasting your time practising viveza criolla on me as it is doesn’t wash.
Terry...
Mar 02nd, 2017 - 11:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Your English is atrocious, yet it is supposed to be your first language...
What does that make you... Uneducated or just plain stupid...?
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Mar 02nd, 2017 - 12:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +1As you can’t refute the issue you engage in your usual sophistry of ‘moving the goalposts’. Namely, when unable to dispute the substance of the subject attack the form, typical ad hominem fallacy. What ever I am it has been sufficient to defeat any and all of your personal unsupported tirades.
Terry...
Mar 02nd, 2017 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I'm confused, but weren't you claiming that LukeDig could not be a lawyer because he couldn't master basic English writing skills...?
Does that ring any bells...?
Btw...Do you have any proof of your assertion that he is not a lawyer...?
I'm sure the burden of proof lies squarely on your shoulders to prove that is so, after all, it is you that is claiming that...
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
Mar 02nd, 2017 - 01:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Burden of proof lies squarely on your shoulders to prove that is so” Wrong! He is the party that made the assertion so burden is his alone.
“Do you have any proof of your assertion that he is not a lawyer…” Deductive logic and empirical reasoning. His failure to meet his burdens . His incorrect legal claims that are entirely unsupported, exactly like you. So that makes me an expert on liars.
Terence, don't get involved with tit for tat with Think/Voice he is just a contrarian with a massive ego, he can't be wrong , a bit like Trump.
Mar 03rd, 2017 - 05:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Trump is not bald though :-)
Mar 03rd, 2017 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse +1She says that, as a lawyer, I should invoke jurisprudence.
Mar 04th, 2017 - 05:25 am - Link - Report abuse -2That´s the brits way of defending their cases. In continental doctrine of law, my doctrine of law, we seek justice, guided by laws, not precedents.
LukeDig has picked up the art of dissembling, from his 'clients', no doubt.
Mar 04th, 2017 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse +2It seems to me that he started out with Pidgin English.
A bit like Brasiliero of the multiple operators.
Is Think right or is Think wrong.......I think it best to wait and see...
Mar 04th, 2017 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0Here is one sides view...
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-budget-idUKKBN16B009
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