MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentine delegation reminded Falkland Islanders have rights
A remainder of the rights of Falkland Islanders has been included in an open letter from the Falklands Government to a delegation of Argentines due to arrive Saturday. They are part of the Comisión Provincial de la Memoria CPM, an independent non-governmental organization. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesBE ALERT TO SKULLDUGGERY! Especially Adolfo Pérez Esquivel!
Mar 10th, 2017 - 06:39 am - Link - Report abuse +4Will these Argies accept the invitation - lots of flags, bands playing - to be presented with a list of the Falkland Islanders' demands?
Mar 10th, 2017 - 07:05 am - Link - Report abuse +2It's OK, Think is going to explain to us all exactly why the Islanders are not considered by the 'pertinent body' in the UN to be a 'people'.....or is it a 'population... or 'inhabitants'....
Mar 10th, 2017 - 07:45 am - Link - Report abuse +5Chuckle, Chuckle
Count the spoons before they arrive :-)
Mar 10th, 2017 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse +2Should be reminded about Argentina's illegitimate sovereignty claims:
Mar 10th, 2017 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse +3Argentina's Illegitimate Sovereignty Claims: https://www.academia.edu/27599163/Argentinas_Illegitimate_Sovereignty_Claims_V2
If they use their time wisely they will learn a lot. If they come with their eyes and ears closed they will have wasted their time (and presumably someone else's money).
Mar 10th, 2017 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse +8“We take this opportunity to remind you of our fundamental right to self-determination, as enshrined in the UN Charter, and of the 35 years of attempts by the Government of Argentina to ignore our rights as a people and undermine our way of life. ....”
Mar 10th, 2017 - 10:57 am - Link - Report abuse +3That is very well put and a good idea, there should be more pushback like that.
35 Argentine swimmers 'intend' to swim across Stanley harbor 'for peace'. Really?
Swimmers for “ peace ”, what the f**k, there is “peace ” in the FALKLANDS it is Argentina that is a threat to that.
Mar 10th, 2017 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse +3This disputy has not sense. The UN should call to Arg & UK to solve this disputy at Hague s Int Court. Each part should have the possibility to claim to solve this situation instead off the other part
Mar 10th, 2017 - 12:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +4As arg I have not doubt if this disputy were solved at Int Court , this Court will give the reason to falklanders, may be about the size of the Exclusion Zone I have some doubts .
I hope that in close future Arg considerer Falk Isl as if were Uruguay , that it means that many arg enjoy ,make investment or lives in a different a country and this is the way to growth our economies
@diefra
Mar 10th, 2017 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Your idiea would be partially good.
I would like to see a FI where argentina people (in large numbers) can visit freely, buy properties, make investments, buy land and farms..like any given argentine cam make in Uruguay.
Even Brits in the Motherland would find it difficult to buy land and farms in a BOT...
Mar 10th, 2017 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse -4pgerman
Mar 10th, 2017 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +7Nothing stopping Argentines visiting in numbers now - about 60 arrive tomorrow and some cruise ships in for the day have several hundred coming ashore.
Buy Land and invest in businesses - simple - drop the Sovereignty claim - then no problem on that.
@Islander1
Mar 10th, 2017 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Argentine people can live in Uruguay (and uruguayans can live in Argentina) without any issue. Boith, uruguayans and argentinians, don't need any “special” authorization (or previous personal evaluation) to live in Argentina or Uruguay. Islanders can to so in Argentina too.
British people, Islanders and uruguayans can live, invest, buy properties and land without in issue in Argentina no matter than officially, at least officially, the United Kingdom invaded part of argentina land. In fact, I'm happy of that since I like british culture and british people.
Argentine people, privates, living and investing, in land, or properties, in the Islands don't add, or take, anything in relation with the dispute over the Islands. It is quite clear that the decision is more related with the idea of not including culturally “different” people in the Islands than any other thing.
pgerman. it is probably that the Argentians are pathological liers don't you think?
Mar 10th, 2017 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +3@pgerman
Mar 10th, 2017 - 06:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +4You were doing well, albeit a bit clumsily, until you wrote “the United Kingdom invaded part of argentina land.”.......this simple sentence undoes any good will you may have obtained with the rest of your “since I like british culture and british people”....
Your last phrase, about the people being “culturally'” different, while that is correct, it has absolutely nothing to do with the sovereignty of the FI...you started off well but then slipped back into the insidious way of thinking of many brainwashed Argies...
So who can buy property in the Falklands? The only thing I could find was from 2007 and says “there is no automatic right for British visitors to settle here and overseas citizens may not purchase land without showing they are going to be able to support themselves and then getting a licence.”
Mar 10th, 2017 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6683677.stm
Are Argentines specially barred from buying property or is it just that anyone foreign is barred? And can British people buy it or do you have to be a resident?
@pgerman
Is it because of Mercosur that you can live in Uruguay, and could you work there too? That's what the EU allows, but plenty of countries have restrictions on foreigners moving there and buying property otherwise.
I don't think it's too hard to buy property in the UK, but getting a visa to live here is.
@JB
I think he meant that was the official position of his government, but they still allow British people to live there. I don't know about cultural differences being a problem either, there are quite a few Chileans living there according to the latest census.
The rules on the purchase of property are the same for everybody. Only permanent residents have an automatic right to hold land. All other people, irrespective of origin or nationality, require a license to hold land. There is no special treatment for British citizens or Argentine citizens one way or the other.
Mar 10th, 2017 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +5So neither me nor pgerman can buy land without a licence. I bet I would have more chance of getting a work permit though.
Mar 10th, 2017 - 08:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0pgerman and others- Resident Islanders and Br Passport Holders can buy land/property. Non Br Passport Holders and all non residents have to apply to the Govt here for a permission to buy/own. This is simply to stop Argenine Govt backed/funded organisations buying up land and property for obvious political reasons.
Mar 10th, 2017 - 09:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +6Work Permits make no distinction on your country of origen- you just need a job,accomodation and to have passed the medical examinations to show neither you nor family are likely to become a burden on our limited Health Services.
Pgerman- do check your own history! England attacked a Spanish Colony- a piece of SPAIN in 1806 -simply because both were at war in Europe.Argentina did not exist!
What you say about Argentina and Uruguay is irrelevant.Neither one is claiming sovereignty over the other! Arg is however claiming our little land very noisily- so we have to make sure you do not get a foot in the door.
Islander One
Mar 11th, 2017 - 06:24 am - Link - Report abuse +1“Arg is however claiming our little land very noisily- so we have to make sure you do not get a foot in the door.”
Right on!!!!!
Watch out for the sheep in wolf's clothing!
Mar 11th, 2017 - 07:10 am - Link - Report abuse +3http://www.clarin.com/politica/malvinas-perez-esquivel-pidio-kelpers-reanuden-dialogo_0_rJ6M3clsl.html
Voice is the great legal mind who informed me on another thread that it is not always the Plaintiff who brings a case before a Court.
Mar 11th, 2017 - 10:36 am - Link - Report abuse -1”Voice
Clyde
Just destroying his argument that it is always the Plaintiff that brings the case to court...;-)”
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plaintiff
@pgerman
Mar 11th, 2017 - 10:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0“ It is quite clear that the decision is more related with the idea of not including culturally “different” people in the Islands than any other thing”
Like for instance the increasing number of Chileans in the Islands?
Like the Spanglish terms in use in the Islands for place names and horse riding gear?
You seem to forget there has been South American influence in the Islands for many years, even if it isn't the predominant culture.
Also if I as an Englishman, want to live and work in the Islands, I can't just turn up without permission.
Justifiably so.
'When in Rome'.
”I would like to see a FI where argentina people (in large numbers) can visit freely, buy properties, make investments, buy land and farms..like any given argentine cam make in Uruguay.”
Do Argentines want to buy farms in the Falklands? Uruguay has a very different climate and I would suggest that British originated people can hack it in the Islands because the climate is more similar to the UKs than to Northern Argentinas or Spain's.
Weather influences culture.
Do the Islanders really want an influx of Argentinians working and buying property. It could be a subtle takeover by numbers. Decades down the line, the current population could find that they are in a minority. Then a vote held to become part of Argentina...fait accompli.
Mar 11th, 2017 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +3It would be near impossible to stop.
I am reminded of Fiji. Native Fijians are in a minority in their own country. The UK in it's wisdom, brought in Indians to do the clerical work in government. The Indians flourished and their population increased to the point where they were the majority...controlling nearly all the businesses. Land was still in Fijian tribal hands but proposed legislation to change this finally caused a coup overthrowing the government. It was called racist and led to Fiji being removed from the Commonwealth.
I am not saying that the case with the Falklands is similar but it is a pointer to what can happen when the indigenous population become the minority in their own land.
@diefra
Mar 11th, 2017 - 03:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +5The one slight flaw in your 'plan' is that there is no way that Argentina would ever win a sovereignty claim for the Falkland Islands as they haven't got any historic, legal or moral right to them.
All Argentina has is an attempt to colonise the Falkland Islands with MILITARY personnel in Nov 1832 (despite the fact that there were already CIVILIAN colonists on the Islands), which failed within weeks due to the military mutinying, murdering their commanding officer, and putting the civilian population at risk.
Less than 6 weeks after they arrived, these military personnel were removed.
That's it. That's all Argentina has...and it wasn't even Argentine military personnel...they were from the United Provinces of the River Plate.
Measure that up against nearly 200 years of continuous habitation by the original civilian colonists (there prior to the UP sending troops) and their descendants, and you'll realise why Argentina would never go to the ICJ.
They have nothing except lies and a desire to steal the Falkland Islands. But in 1946 Argentina voluntarily joined the UN and signed the UN Charter which gives ALL peoples the right to self determination. The UN Secretary General has stated numerous times that self determination applies to ALL the NSGT's on the UN decolonisation list (which includes the Falkland Islands). In 2013 the people of the Falkland Islands, in an internationally observed referendum, showed the world just what they want...which is to remain British.
So Argentina stays away from the ICJ knowing that they can never win because all they have is lies, lies and more lies. They're not even clever lies. Even Argentina's own national archives don't back up Argentina's 'version' of history. That's just how bad these Argentine lies are.
Sadly too many Argentines are brainwashed to believe these lies because using the Falkland Islands has always been a good way for the government to distract the Argentine public from all the stealing they do.
The Falklands are not obligated to allow Argentines or anyone else free run of the islands, whether they have that elsewhere or not.
Mar 11th, 2017 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nor are the Islanders or the UK required to give an explanation why.
It is their home to with as they please, even to excluding people they don't trust or plain 'don't like'.
End of.
@DT
Mar 11th, 2017 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -2To tell the truth, not really sure what he meant...perhaps that Brits (and other foreigners) were allowed to buy land in Argentina, at least officially, until the UK “supposedly” “invaded part of Argentina land ” ???
While it is quite natural for (even) western countries to have slightly different characteristics, I don't see these cultural differences representing an obstacle to either settling in the others' country.
I think what pgerman was probably trying to imply, is that while the the sovereignty dispute between the two countries is not an obstacle - for Argies to buy land or invest in the FI - it probably isn't very common due to a perception that cultural differences are, or might be...in that they wouldn't be welcome (?). It's clear, 'generally' speaking, that they aren't the best of friends, and that perception is what probably dictates what happens, more than the Law...
Well, now I'm not sure who can do what, as GALlamosa and Islander1 seem to be saying different things.
Mar 11th, 2017 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +3@JB
I don't know, we'd better stop guessing and wait till he comes back.
But I think it's clear that anyone who thinks the Falklands are (or should be) Argentine, would not be welcome there, and that includes the majority of all people in Argentina. That is the real obstacle.
As for having free movement, it works when countries are similar, like Argentina and Uruguay, or in the original EU, but when they are not it can cause problems as we're seeing in the EU now. For a tiny community like the Falklands, it's obvious that if they allowed anyone who wanted to move there, from whichever country, they could easily be completely swamped. I assume that is why even British citizens need a permit to work there.
DemonTree...
Mar 11th, 2017 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Ignore the nonsense, it's a closed shop...if your name's not down you're not coming in...
“To even work there you need to have a pre-arranged job contract with a company that has signed a form of bond taking responsibility for you...
Unless you're a cruise-ship day-tripper or a birdwatcher who has flown in on holiday, the only way to be unemployed on the islands is to be a resident retiree or an unemployable, native-born drunk...”
Borrowed from an article...
Swamped...? It's the size of Wales...
Borrowed from an article? Sound rather like Think.
Mar 12th, 2017 - 01:31 am - Link - Report abuse +6All the BOT's have rules to restrict the flow of immigration - all in line with the UN diktat that hopes to avoid another Hawaii.
The UK has rules too, although it's hard to spot them some time. Most countries do. Out here in Thailand I am not allowed to own land.
All sounds very reasonable to me :-)
England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.
Mar 12th, 2017 - 03:02 am - Link - Report abuse -3voice
Mar 12th, 2017 - 06:00 am - Link - Report abuse +5““To even work there you need to have a pre-arranged job contract with a company that has signed a form of bond taking responsibility for you...”
So what?
That's not unusual.
Much the same for the USA since the 70's and likely most other countries.
What a moron you are.
Anyone who wants to come and work here can do so as long as they have a job or are accompanying someone who does (direct family, married, formal partnership, etc.). Anyone who doesn't think that is the correct approach is just jealous. We offered to take some refugees a year or so back but got told by the European authorities handling refugee assignment that it was too complicated. We also raise tens of thousands of pounds per annum for overseas charities and send the money where it is needed.
Mar 12th, 2017 - 08:04 am - Link - Report abuse +5Anyway, I have lots of things to go and do on my Sunday off so it's time for a nice hot shower and workout before brekky. I wonder what interesting people I might meet today.
@Voice
Mar 12th, 2017 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse +1So? Isn't that true of most countries that you need to find a job there first and the employer has to sponsor your visa?
Amusing article though; I don't get the impression that the journalist liked the place very much:
“The word GRIM comes to mind: Besides sandpaper winds, the islands are blessed with a skin-frying ozone hole, a near complete lack of trees, and import-dependent stores where sad tomatoes fetch $4.15 a pound.”
And it's not the size of Wales, but that's irrelevant anyway; I was talking about the population size. If anyone from Britain was allowed to move to BOTs it would probably be a much bigger problem for those sunny Caribbean islands than for the Falklands, but it would only take a small amount of immigration to outnumber the current population.
Highly amusing this discussion on the islands by those who think they are experts but have never been there or to Argieland - LOL!
Mar 12th, 2017 - 12:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@The Voice
Mar 12th, 2017 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I have never claimed to be an expert, but if you think visiting the islands and Argentina is enough, I guess the delegation mentioned in this article now qualifies. Perhaps you think they should be commenting instead?
Is he talking about me...?
Mar 12th, 2017 - 03:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -5I've been to lots of places, and even though I have a property in the States I have learned far more about the States from reading...
I live in Scotland yet am always learning about different aspects of it...
Visiting is more keyhole than anything else...
@islander1 Why doesn't the FIs Market themselves to Argentina? I know there seems to be a cultural disconnect but they need to see your point of view and that families have been there for 8 generations.
Mar 15th, 2017 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse +1”import-dependent stores where sad tomatoes fetch $4.15 a pound.”
Mar 15th, 2017 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Crap. Disease free tomatoes and salads are grown to higher quality in the Market Garden than we get in the shops from Spain (but not Holland and UK when their tomatoes are in season).
“Besides sandpaper winds,”
I'm not doing a good job of bigging up the UK here, but Doris was far worse than a lot of wind experienced in the Falklands.
“near complete lack of trees”
OK trees don't go naturally in the islands for lack of mychorriza, and they dry out but to say trees are almost non existent is pure hyperbole.
I can predict the next exaggeration, permanent rain, snowstorms every day, no vegetation over 2mm high, no vegetables grow, every day gets dark at 4pm.
Did the idiot who wrote this visit the market garden and the memorial wood in Stanley?
Reminds me of the journalists that turned up in 1990, wearing parkas, moaning about the wind when everyone else was in shorts and splashing on high factor sun cream in 26 oc and rising.
Livingthedream
Mar 15th, 2017 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There are none so blind as those who will not see. Thankfully there are some educated Argentines who understand the situation
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Future_of_the_Falkland_Islands_and_Its_People/The_Falklands_Will_Never_Be_Argentine
The Falklands Will Never Be Argentine
Mar 15th, 2017 - 08:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I would have to agree with you.
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