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Another RAF Falklands/Sao Paulo flight “surprises” Argentine and Brazilian diplomacy

Tuesday, March 21st 2017 - 09:51 UTC
Full article 30 comments

An RAF transport aircraft last week allegedly made a two-day return trip to Sao Paulo from MPA in the Falkland Islands, according to a report from columnist Martin Dinatale, based on sources from the Argentine Defense ministry. The aircraft was an Airbus 330 which left MPA on Sunday 12 March at 22:44, and landed in Sao Paulo at 2:47 early Monday March 13. On 14 March at 23:47 the Airbus returned to the Falklands. Read full article

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  • Clyde15

    Well someone in authority in Brazil MUST have cleared the flights. A flight plan would have to be submitted to Brazilian Air Traffic control.

    So now Argentina wants to control the Brazilian military...somewhat presumptious !

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 11:20 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • darragh

    “We know it was a military supply trip, as all previous flights from the Islands to Brazil”,

    This must come as a surprise to the RAF as it doesn't have any Airbus 330's other than those converted as tankers which obviously would not be carrying military supplies unless of course the very friendly Brazilians let them top up with jet fuel.

    Oh musn't forget the A330 that has been converted for use by Government officials and the Royal family.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Roger Lorton

    Oops there goes another Rubber Tree plant ............... :-)

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    This is strange. The RAF and UK government must know that Argentina has been complaining about flights, you would think they'd want to avoid giving them more ammunition and potentially embarrassing Brazil.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -13
  • Islander1

    Can Argies please check your equipment? The only RAF A330 here is the Air Refueler which would have no need to fly to Brazil at all.
    No northbound Civilian registered A330 leaves MPN on a Sunday as never here!! It arrives pm Mondays and Thursday and leaves am Tuesdays and Fridays.
    Can be delayed at times by weather - but was not at the time Argies claim.
    Neither has this flight ever had to divert into S America northbound!!

    Even if an urgent need for a spare part-RAF would not fly it to Brazil - they would fly it Direct to MPN on an RAF aircraft,

    What is more likley is a load of tripe and smokescreens from Argieland to then give them a reason for refusing any commercial flight plan Brazil to Falklands as being studied,
    because Macri knows he has not got the majority and power in Congress to get such a thing approved there.
    Good!! - very few Islanders want a flight from Brazil anyway! - of very little economic use to us as S tourists cannot transit through Brazil very easily. Also we know damn well that the monthly Arg landing place would soon become Buenos Aires and that would not be acceptable this end so the route would collapse anyway.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 01:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Clyde15

    darragh

    Not quite correct. To quote RAF.MOD.UK :-

    ”The fuel necessary for refuelling operations, as well as that required for the aircraft’s mission, is carried within the existing wing and fuselage tanks. This arrangement leaves the cabin free for the transport of up to 291 personnel, and the cargo hold remains available for freight on either military or civil pallets. On a typical deployment across the Atlantic, a single aircraft would be able to refuel four Tornados and still carry 11,000lb (5000kg) of freight/passengers.”

    We get them regularly at Prestwick occasionally unloading stores.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • darragh

    Clyde15

    Sorry, my mistake, I assumed that the tanks would be placed within the cargo and cabin spaces as well - bit like the Tardis. bigger on the inside than outside but thanks for the info.

    Just goes to show always check your facts.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • The Voice

    No need to pussyfoot around Argentina. They don't own South America and cannot dictate to either Brazil or the UK. On one hand they seem to want trade and dialogue and on the other they continue with discord and antagonism? They can't have it both ways. Just put them on 'ignore'.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Clyde15

    Darragha

    The old VC10k's had internal tanks where the passenger accommodation would have been.

    A friend of mine had a flight in one during an exercise over the N.Sea. He was photographing the refueling of Phantoms and Buccaneers. He did not realise that the tank area was unheated and at 20,000 feet, the temp.inside was -20°C. He said that after 10 minutes he could not feel his fingers and his camera lens would not focus properly.

    He beat a hasty retreat to the cockpit to thaw out, and his next couple of visits to the back were curtailed even though he had more clothes on by then.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 05:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • AustrOllOpithecus

    “No need to pussyfoot around Argentina. They don't own South America and cannot dictate to either Brazil or the UK. On one hand they seem to want trade and dialogue and on the other they continue with discord and antagonism? They can't have it both ways”.

    Captain Obvious to the rescue... now can you figure out for us WHICH country in Europe is engaging in this exact same policy ahead of very important negotiations that are approaching?

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Pugol-H

    Maybe the planes landing in Brazil are not going to and from the Falklands, judging by the way the Brazilians are acting they obviously don’t want the Argys to know what they are doing.

    Let them think they are going to the Malvinas.

    @Toby
    The French are always difficult ahead of a negotiation, especially when they don’t have a card in their hand and they know it.

    You get used to them.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Room101

    Amazing.
    The RAF can land in Argentina or Brazil without clearance and without anyone knowing.
    Now, that is a surprise.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 09:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    Are we banning Brazilian military aircraft from the UK. News to me.

    Mar 21st, 2017 - 10:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    The only ones embarrassing themselves is the Argentine government...Don't believe for a second that the Brazilian authorities have any intention of creating unnecessary problems with the UK over some ridiculous Argentine claim...even though they are more or less obliged to recognize it...
    Surely the Argentine has more serious issues to worry about..

    Mar 22nd, 2017 - 07:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    It still seems kind of unlikely to me that this flight happened as reported. Do you think it's true that the Brazilian government didn't know about the flights, or was that just the easiest thing to say when the Argentines complained to them?

    Mar 22nd, 2017 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    Of course the Brazilians knew about the flights...but as I say, to take action against the RAF, based on the Argies absurd (Falklands) claim, is very unlikely to happen....to attend diplomatic protocol, they might issue a declaration saying they are looking into it, but will take no effective action...

    Mar 24th, 2017 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    You don't think they might really ban flights - at least temporarily - to stop Argentina complaining at them? Although banning emergency landings would also look very bad; what if someone died?

    Re your post on the BF:

    I don't see how giving people 3 years will help. If they can't earn enough to live on now, what will have changed in 3 years, especially if the training is not available where they live?

    If there are no jobs in the countryside, perhaps they need to move to cities, but then you will have more favelas and probably more crime, which I imagine is not the desired result. Training only helps if there are jobs available that require it.

    Do you know anything more about that factory? It sounds a little too good to be true to me. If people would not be better off with a job, then it means the government has designed the benefits badly. They ought to only lose part of the money depending how much they are earning. Anyway, isn't the BF supposed to be more of a top up, as people can still get it while working if they are low paid?

    As for crime, I don't think too many people would object to a murderer being locked up more or less for life, but they may object to doing it to a drug dealer or even more so a drug user. IMO lesser criminals like these and thieves ideally need to be rehabilitated if possible, by giving them education, work skills etc, and treatment for the addicts. But as long as the prisons are way overcrowded and run by gangs that is not going to happen.

    Mar 26th, 2017 - 12:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    The Brazilians have no desire to pick a fight with Britain...especially over something so absurd.
    They'll keep stringing the Argies along until they get fed up of complaining...what can they do ? break off diplomatic relations with Brazil ?

    To help the really poor over a hump, the BF is acceptable, provided used as a stepping stone...but the PT soon realized how effective an electoral tool it was, and to administer it correctly, could backfire...
    You've probably realized by now that the lousy social infrastructure takes its toll on society, and does nothing to help break the vicious cycle.
    Sure, many move to the city, but without a profession, what can they offer ? when employed, it's usually in some menial, minimum wage job, which won't take them very far...
    The small town in the interior of Bahia is “Panelinha”, and I learned about it through a woman who is a friend of ours (now living in the UK), who got the hell out as a teenager, studied, and got ahead with her life, while her family and most of the rest of the community succumbed to the temptation of the BF... it was designed to help people temporarily, to keep them on their feet while trying to get back into the work market, not as an 'extra'.
    Why so condescending towards the drug dealers ? aren't they responsible for the deaths and the addiction of many others ? Drug 'users', as long as inoffensive, OK, but once/if they lose control over their actions, should be obliged to get treatment - I'm not advocating jail time for them, unless they turn to crime to pay for their vice.
    Slowly you are starting to get the full picture - the inadequate infrastructure is the centre of the problem, and to correct it would need massive investments, but also requires positive political willpower, but that is seriously lacking in Brazil.
    Most criminals, when released, return to crime almost immediately...only the lesser criminals, provided not caught up in a faction, might learn their lesson.

    Mar 26th, 2017 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    March 10, 2017
    “The attorney said yesterday (03/09), with a power of attorney, in oral arguments conducted in the Regional Federal Court of the 4th Region, that “apparently”, Lula is the “owner of the notorious country house in Atibaia”.
    Yet, the country house’s alleged notoriety is the result of the excesses practiced by the judge. And Lula isn’t the property’s owner. The real owners have already presented to the Operation Car Wash evidence that they purchased the country house with their own resources, which have also been used for paying the house’s maintenance and expenses.
    Besides, Lula isn’t a defendant, let alone has he been convicted for any event related to that property.”
    LULA’S ATTORNEYS TO ARGUE ABUSE OF AUTHORITY IN NEW APPEAL March 9, 2017
    “Far from constituting a “crime of hermeneutics” as sustained by the judge’s defense, the lawsuit is based on excesses that he practiced for purposes other than those of the investigations. Brazil has adopted a republican regime, which ensures fundamental guarantees to citizens, and has the duty to hold those who violate them accountable.”

    So when the United Nations Human Rights Committee renders its opinion the rest of the world will accept its determination. Brazil has failed to honour its treaty obligation to file a response within the six month window. Which means Lula’s appeal will be accepted as truthful. That’s going to be one hell of an embarrassment for Brazil.

    Mar 26th, 2017 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    True, I doubt Argentina would want to do anything definite against Brazil.

    From what I understood, the BF was always intended to be a long term thing, as was the Bolsa Escola that it replaced. Ideally, it will mean better fed and educated children who have more chance of getting a job later, but that is a long term objective. If people don't have much opportunity to better themselves then just giving them money isn't likely to help, however, it's not like they had much chance before the BF either. If the options are take the BF or move to the city but still be stuck in a menial job, those aren't great choices.

    About the drug dealers, as far as I have seen the low level ones are not much different to muggers or other types of criminals, and probably many could be reformed - if they had other opportunities - which is cheaper and better for everyone in the long run.

    But really to reduce crime long term you need to reduce the number of people who are poor and have no chance to get rich in any other way, and that's difficult.

    Mar 27th, 2017 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    The BF was meant to be temporary....that's the only way it would 'push' people to get off their arses ...but in practise it's become kind of permanent. Education and jobs would give people a sense of purpose, and the tools to better themselves, greatly reducing the need for programmes such as the BF...and if so, only as a stepping stone as mentioned earlier.
    DT, apologize for saying this yet again, but you have no idea what sort of people these criminals are like in Brazil....they have little or no schooling, have been brought up in violent, broken homes, they are insensitive to other's suffering, they are unnecessarily cruel, have no moral values, and will kill you at the blink of an eyelid......to give you an idea of their total lack of empathy, when they try to assault someone on the street, whether the target is walking or driving, or in some crowded or relatively quiet place they won't hesitate to shoot you if don't give them what they want or if you try to escape, and will most likely shoot you anyway after robbing you...these guys are beyond recovery ; it's pointless to try to understand them based on UK comparisons. Today, all you see on TV, other than corruption in politics, is about street crime, gang warfare, shootouts between gangs and the police, stray bullets, blowing up ATM's, home invasions to rob, 'lightning' kidnappings, killing etc...it's reached a point where - according to informal stats - that more than half of the population have changed their habits due to street crime...I myself, avoid going out at night unless I have to, and keep away from certain areas, even during the day.
    I have no pity for these criminals after they're caught and knocked around by the police, but I agree that to reduce crime you need to reduce the number of poor people (who, in their great majority, are hard-working people and not criminals)...and education is the 'single' most important component in this process.

    Mar 28th, 2017 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Meanwhile away from speculation about the populous and back to reality of the movers and shakers
    BRAZIL VERSUS INTERNATIONAL LAW
    “The Disciplinary Board of the Regional Federal Court of the 4th Region (TRF4) – with thirteen votes to one – shelved a complaint..concerning said events, on the grounds that THE OPERATION CAR WASH DOESN’T NEED TO FOLLOW “GENERAL RULES”; in other words, the laws. Likewise, the National Council of Justice (CNJ) summarily dismissed countless complaints brought against the judge, refusing to consider any inappropriateness in the measures adopted by him.”
    “Of the most important treaties, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights states in its article 14(1) that “all persons shall be equal before the courts and tribunals” and further, that “in the determination of any criminal charge against him, or of his rights and obligations in a suit of law, everyone shall be entitled to a fair and public hearing by a competent, independent and impartial tribunal established by law” (emphasis added). The Human Rights Committee has unambiguously held that “THE RIGHT TO BE TRIED BY AN INDEPENDENT AND IMPARTIAL TRIBUNAL IS AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT THAT MAY SUFFER NO EXCEPTION”. 6
    6 Communication No. 263/1987, M. Gonzalez del Río v. Peru (Views adopted on 28 October 1992), in UN doc. GAOR, A/48/40 (vol. II), p. 20, para. 5.2; emphasis added.
    “In Rogerson v Australia, the HUMAN RIGHTS COMMITTEE (HRC) HELD THAT THE IMPARTIALITY OF THE COURT IMPLIES THAT JUDGES MUST NOT HARBOUR PRECONCEPTIONS ABOUT THE MATTER BEFORE THEM, AND THEY MUST NOT ACT IN WAYS THAT PROMOTE THE INTERESTS OF ONE OF THE PARTIES 85
    85 HRC, Rogerson v Australia, Communication no 802/1998 (3 April 2002) UN Doc CCPR/ C/74/805/1998|7.4] (discussing Article 14(1) of the ICCPR).
    National Courts and the International Rule of Law By André Nollkaemper
    So while this is binding international law, but with no effective enforcement. It may put Brazil ahead for the banana republic award.

    Mar 28th, 2017 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Don't see how the BF would help if it's temporary. Things that might help are education, more infrastructure like roads, encouraging companies to build factories, low interest loans to small businesses (but those don't give opportunities for large kickbacks so politicians aren't interested). Or for poor people in the countryside, giving them land to farm. Giving people money will certainly make them less poor but it isn't going to make them more employable, although it could help improve the economy depending where it comes from.

    It sounds like someone in Brazil should adopt Tony Blair's slogan: “Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime”. If people truly have no empathy and kill others at the drop of a hat then it will be pretty hopeless doing anything but locking them up. But how did they get that way? Preventing more people ending up like that would probably save a lot of money on prisons in the long run.

    And what you see on TV is probably the most extreme cases. Are there any surveys of how many people have been victims of different types of crime? As opposed to official stats which only include crimes that are reported.

    @TH
    If there is no enforcement then the Brazilian government will probably just ignore it. Laws are pointless if not enforced.

    Mar 29th, 2017 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “All the five witnesses heard on Nov. 08, 2016 at the 10th FC Brasília stated that Lula never attempted to interfere directly or indirectly in Nestor Cervero’s plea bargain agreement, which contradicts what Delcídio do Amaral said. … of the 27 witnesses chosen by the FAO to charge Lula. None of them could confirm the accusations made against the former President of participation in unlawful acts.”
    So other than claims by the judge and prosecutor there is no corroborating witness(es), or document(s), or recording(s). So as I read it there’s absolutely nada evidence.

    October 26, 2016
    “UN High Commissioner for Human Rights confirmed that the plea presented July 28, 2016 on behalf of Lula was registered before the agency. THE SAME DOCUMENT INFORMS THAT THE BRAZILIAN GOVERNMENT, ALSO ON THIS DATE, RECEIVED A REQUEST TO PRESENT “INFORMATION OR OBSERVATIONS RELEVANT TO THE ISSUE OF ADMISSIBILITY OF THE COMMUNICATION” WITHIN TWO MONTHS.
    The petition, which show that, according to international law, Judge Moro has committed a series of unlawful actions against Lula, et al, he has lost his impartiality to try Lula. Today we met in Boston with Harvard University specialists to discuss the ‘lawfare’ phenomenon. It is especially important to know that, from now on, the UN will be formally following the serious violations that are committed against Lula in Brazil.”
    Cristiano Zanin Martins

    Amazing! That the ruling elite have exposed the depth and breadth of their control to the world at large. In their haste to wreak vengeance against Lula, they have unwitting given him import and the status, of being completely in the right. The history of Lula, like other reformers will certainly be remembered as something positive. As his narrative will resonate across time, whereas no one will remember his detractors.

    Mar 29th, 2017 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    If permanent, what purpose would it serve other than early retirement ? as planned, it would allow people a chance to get over a rough patch ‘n re-insert themselves in society ; It’s more than obvious that building infrastructure, physical (roads etc) or social (education, public health) is the way to go, but this depends on Congress voting for projects that benefit the people, not themselves.
    Agricultural reform was big in the past - there’s plenty of land, and projects were implemented to settle small farmers on reasonably sized plots, but soon, the dishonest streak in the Brazilian spoke louder, and the social movement MST (“movimento sem terra”/movement of those without land), supposedly formed by small farmers 'n people who worked the fields, appeared on the scene, to fight for the distribution of free land. They successfully attracted thousands of unemployed, and people in sub-employment in the towns and cities, and their targets became productive farmland ; they aim was to break up large farms, with ready infrastructure, built ‘n paid for by the owners. Obviously, this wasn’t going to happen, so they started to invade farms, and before being kicked out the police, after armed confrontations, they destroyed facilities and farm equipment. Instead of using the govt funds given them, to settle on the land, they used them to build up their movement politically, and create havoc when their unreasonable demands weren’t met. Also, once land was distributed, most settlers, intimidated by the group's leadership, sold off the land, or abandoned it, just to thicken the movement and fight for more land…on which they had no intention of settling. Under Lula, they flourished, received millions 'n just squandered them.
    Boils down to ‘zero tolerance’; The basic cause of their aggressive mindset, is their feudal NE culture (where most are originally from), poverty, and envy.
    TV shows only a small part of it. Underestimated, official stats, are 75,000 murders per yr.

    Mar 30th, 2017 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    “Given the tons of proof that has surfaced - the toad will go to prison” Where? Since there is nothing in the public domain to support this porkie. The only proof that is certain is the continued abuse of Lula’s human rights, contrary to international law. Courts are supposed to be based only on legal precepts, not appear to be based on other considerations.
    DT “No enforcement then the Brazilian government will probably just ignore it”
    Then that would simply confirm Lula’s claims of ‘lawfare’. He would then become a ‘cause célèbre’. If he were to be imprisoned, and the UN supports him. Such a verdict would have the terrific ramifications of being viewed as that of a ‘kangaroo court’ and Lula as a ‘prisoner of conscience’ “A person who has been imprisoned for holding political or religious views that are not tolerated by their own government.” This would in turn cause Brazil to be viewed as a ‘pariah state’ which in consequence would make any foreign investment less secure because of a malfunctioning legal system. The government would have to suffer the embarrassment of continually being challenged by foreign media, Amnesty International and other human rights organizations.

    Mar 30th, 2017 - 06:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @Tinker Bell
    Why don't you crawl back under your rock ?

    “Since there is nothing in the public domain to support this porkie”(?)...obviously you don’t listen to what going on in the 'public domain' ; not surprising, given you are unable to extricate your head from your arse….erhh, sorry, I meant your ‘legal textbooks ; anyway, I see you haven’t progressed much, that you are still under the illusion that you are the foremost legal expert in the world, that you continue to be very selective, shutting out what doesn’t please you, not to mention your tiresome, pedantic habit of quoting laws and treaties, many of which aren’t even applicable in Brazil, as if they, in themselves, were proof of what you want to believe, and defend : the toad’s innocence; keep on ignoring the evidence if it hurts your socialist sensitivity…since you are incapable of finding the evidence, just a suggestion : take a look at the spreadsheets from Odebrecht’s bribery department, where your hero is listed with a credit balance of (still) R$ 23 million, which unfortunately he will not be able to use…besides this evidence, already in the hands of the Federal Police for quite some time now, Marcelo Odebrecht and other executives have confirmed “Amigo” (de E.O.) is the toad...I heard that one of Lula’s lawyers just resigned….it’s your chance to offer the toad your expert services ; fact is, your posts don’t interest me, and I’m pretty sure that even after Lula is convicted, you’ll keep on with the same, stupid lies, you stinking ‘petista’.
    Lula is no victim of his “political or religious views”, he is just a semi-illiterate, common criminal.

    Mar 30th, 2017 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Twiddledumb
    Well, your fond of the sound of your opines but you can’t produce one proven fact. Every thing I have claimed is produced by an officer of the court and posted by them, as I’ve previously shown. Since the judge won’t allow the hearings to be recorded. So I have the most primary material that is available. I only post treaties that Brazil is a signatory too, or binding international law.
    The only place that counts is when it’s proven in court, like:

    LULA’S ATTORNEYS PROVIDE COURT WITH DOCUMENTS CONFIRMING THE EARNINGS REPORTED IN HEARING
    March 16, 2017
    As the former President’s Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva’s attorneys, we filed today (3/16) a petition with the 10th Federal Court of Brasília (Proceeding No 40755-27.2016.4.01.34000) attaching a “Statement of Earnings and Withheld Income Tax” for the calendar year 2016, where the lecture company L.I.L.S. Palestras, Eventos e Publicações Ltda. appears as the payer. This document confirms the information Lula gave to the judge in charge of the case, in his testimony on 3/14. The former President had reported his monthly income was composed of a retirement pension, granted as a government’s amnesty in 1993, around the amount of R$ 6 thousand, in addition to a monthly compensation of R$ 25 thousand from said lecture company – from where he also provides the amounts for his children, all declared and tax levied.

    The document is available at www.averdadedelula.com.br

    Cristiano Zanin Martins and Roberto Teixeira

    Mar 30th, 2017 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    What purpose would the BF serve if permanent? If paid mostly to people in work, it could relieve poverty without distorting the market the way a minimum wage would. Also, giving benefits and tax breaks to families with children reduces the number of kids growing up in poverty. According to Wikipedia the child benefit was introduced in the UK after studies in the 30s showed a large number of children were growing up in poverty, with 47% suffering 5 or more years of malnutrition. Apart from preventing children growing up in terrible conditions, those who are adequately fed, clothed, and going to school rather than working are far more likely to do well as adults and become useful members of society.

    I guess I should not be too surprised that the movement to give people land did not work out well, since it seems corruption is so endemic in Brazil. And I daresay that most of the really good land for farming was already owned by someone or other, which makes it a lot harder than in say the US where they forced the Indians into reservations and declared vast areas to belong to the government.

    Brazil has a scarily high murder rate, but all the countries in the Americas seem to have a more-or-less alarming murder rate, including the USA. I wonder why?

    @TH
    Lula would become a ‘cause célèbre’, would he? Like Julian Assange in the UK? The UN declared that he was 'arbitrarily detained' by the UK and Sweden. I haven't seen any 'terrific ramifications'; he's still hiding in the Ecuadorian embassy and neither Britain, nor Sweden are regarded as pariah states.

    Mar 30th, 2017 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    DT “Julian Assange in the UK a ‘cause célèbre’” You’re the only one who has stated this, nobody else. In his case it is disputed facts ‘he said she said’. In Lula’s case there is no evidence against him. “… of the 27 witnesses chosen by the FAO to charge Lula. None of them could confirm the accusations made against the former President of participation in unlawful acts.” Mere unsupported assertions by a clearly biased judge and prosecutor.

    UN SUGGESTS THAT BRAZILIAN JUDICIAL AUTHORITIES FOLLOW THE LAW AVOIDING TAKING PARTISAN POLITICAL POSITIONS.

    March 22, 2016
    Given the political and social instability environment generated by the Judge Sergio Moro decisions, the UN Commission for Human Rights oriented the “judicial authorities to act scrupulously within the confines of international and domestic law, and to avoid taking partisan political positions”
    Spokesperson for the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights: Rupert Colville
    Location: Geneva
    Date: 22 March 2016(1) BrazilWe are concerned about the increasingly politicised and heated debate that has engulfed Brazil over the past few days and weeks. We urge the Government, as well as politicians from other parties, to cooperate fully with the judicial authorities in their investigations into allegations of high-level corruption, and to avoid any actions that could be construed as a means of obstructing justice. At the same time, we urge the judicial authorities to act scrupulously within the confines of international and domestic law, and to avoid taking partisan political positions.
    We are concerned that a vicious circle may be developing that risks discrediting both the executive and the judiciary, thereby doing serious long-term damage to the State, and to the democratic achievements made in the past 20 years during which Brazil has been governed under a Constitution which provides strong human rights guarantees.

    – See more at: United Nations Human Rights

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    Mar 30th, 2017 - 11:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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