MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Obamacare bipartisan support turns into Trump's first major legislative defeat
In the aftermath of his first major legislative defeat, President Donald Trump is standing by his team, preaching confidence in House Speaker Paul Ryan, and remains convinced of Obamacare's eventual downfall. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesThe Republicans control The House, The Senate and The White House and Trump still couldn't get the deal done. Hahaha. Didn't Trump say that if a businessman can't do a deal with politicians then he isn't very good. Trump, you are a failure already so stop blaming the Democrats. You have the majority and it was your own party that turned against you.
Mar 25th, 2017 - 10:32 am - Link - Report abuse +4On a serious note, Obamacare does need reform. If Trump had tried the reform route instead of trying to replace it with Trumpdon'tcare it would probably have passed into legislation.
At the heart of the matter is a healthcare industry and pharmaceutical industry working together with insurance companies.
Mar 25th, 2017 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +2It is all run as a business, for maximum profit.
Excellent private healthcare is available in Mexico for pennies on the dollar.
Public healthcare is available there too.
As it is, the cost of Obamacare will continue to rise exponentially - well above inflation and wages...in 10 years, and hundreds of billions of Dollars later, the dumbocraps might wake up...
Mar 25th, 2017 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -2This article neglects to mention that the Republicans who opposed this bill did so because it was a lie and a fraud. It claimed to repeal Obamacare, while actually keeping nearly all of it in place. With this out of the way, they will now try to do something that really will repeal it.
Mar 25th, 2017 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +4@ JB You can't blame the Democrats. Blame the Republican who thought it was either too punitive or not punitive enough on the poor. They have the numbers to pass the bill.
Mar 25th, 2017 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@EB
Mar 25th, 2017 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +3I had understood that the Republicans did not have enough votes on their own...and needed at least 8 dissident votes from the Democrats....but the way OBcare is going, something will have to be done sooner or later...
@JB
Mar 25th, 2017 - 07:56 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Nope, they have a decent majority in the House of Representatives, no Democratic votes were required, but Trump couldn't convince them to agree on one plan. The rollbacks went too far for the moderates, and not far enough for the hardliners. Apparently Trump is not as great at deals as he claimed, surprise.
While Obama was president they tried to repeal the ACA 60 times, but now they control all three branches of government and finally have the power to remove it, they can't do it. They had 8 years in opposition to come up with a replacement, but they spent most of that time criticising Obamacare and never planned what to put in its place.
Trump said “Look let's get together and get a great health care bill or plan that's really great for the people of our country.” The Republicans had the chance to do that 8 years ago, but refused. Why on earth would the Democrats cooperate now with repealing one of their own president's major achievements?
Besides, from what I saw the Trumpcare bill doesn't fix the biggest problems with Obamacare, it would just result in more people being uninsured again and a higher burden on low earners. Any fix for US healthcare needs to deal with the spiralling costs, but that would cut into profits, and the industry is huge and has a powerful lobby.
@ DT Thanks for explaining that to JB for me - it saved me a long post. I agree Trump is not the dealmaker he claimed. He used lying, bullying and bribery in business but that doesn't necessarily transfer to politics. One has to be more clever about it and he doesn't have the intelligence.
Mar 25th, 2017 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Trump will now have a tantrum and wait for the healthcare scheme to crumble because it does need reform. But it won't happen for a long time and he may not be around long enough to see it.
@ JB What DT said but I agree Obamacare needs some reform. Even Obama said that but with no chance of getting any cooperation from the Republicans he had to leave it for the next administration. Trump is foolish to blame the Democrats because it is not true. Just as he claimed the glory today for the 20,000 new jobs that were created in 2015 under the last administration.
EB and JB
Mar 25th, 2017 - 09:24 pm - Link - Report abuse +1as I said,
“At the heart of the matter is a healthcare industry and pharmaceutical industry working together with insurance companies.
It is all run as a business, for maximum profit”
and it is essentially privately run with no mandate to serve the people.
Obama tried to amend that, but faced opposition that was determined to render it unworkable.
The GOP would then point to it as a failed experiment in Socialised Medicine and say, “I told you so.”
@DT & @ EB
Mar 25th, 2017 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0thank you both for clarifying ; Gotta pay more attention to the news...
@DT
“Besides, from what I saw the Trumpcare bill doesn't fix the biggest problems with Obamacare, it would just result in more people being uninsured again and a higher burden on low earners”.
Regarding your above statement, cannot disagree...OBamacare indeed has a lot of flaws, and I think it's about time that both parties cut out the crap and sat down to discuss a decent plan, this time to benefit the people, not to screw them further.
“Any fix for US healthcare needs to deal with the spiralling costs, but that would cut into profits, and the industry is huge and has a powerful lobby”.
That is true, as well pointed out by Kanye.
@ Kanye
Mar 25th, 2017 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Yes, I didn't mean to ignore your point. The pharmaceutical industry in the U.S. is a monster and they have no interest in reducing their profits. You only have to watch T.V. in the U.S. to see how dominant the industry is, every other advert! And the people are the most medicated on the planet.
EB JB IMO
Mar 25th, 2017 - 11:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I am so thoroughly disgusted and stunned by the lengths the GOP politicians will go to avoid a universal healthcare plan.
Sarah Palin, the Republican choice for a candidate to resonate with the people, actually campaigned to stop Universal Healthcare.
She irresponsibly and misleadingly used scare tactics with catch phrases of “Death Panels” to describe how the government would deny treatment to those they deemed unworthy.
Instead, the insurance companies use “pre-existing conditions” to deem who is ineligible for funding.
In other words, those who need life-altering healthcare the most, are excluded.
It's hard to see how to US system could be fixed without drastically changing it. Obamacare tried to fix some of the issues without doing this, and it's seriously flawed. There are lots of systems they could copy but it would create a big upheaval, and the people would have to change their expectations - Americans generally are over-treated and especially over medicated, as Elaine said. The system encourages doctors and hospitals to do as many expensive treatments and scans as possible, because then they make more money. Also they probably should ban advertising drugs to patients like most countries.
Mar 26th, 2017 - 12:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I do remember when Republicans were attacking the NHS and accusing us of having death panels, and ignorant people believed them. And then there was that article where the reporter wrote “People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.” I nearly died laughing, it would be impossible to shoot your own argument in the foot any more perfectly than that. :)
I don't know why people think having an insurance company decide whether you get life saving treatment is better than a government body doing it, anyway. At least you get to elect the government.
Why do you think Trump is not so very upset about all the media coverage of the failed bill? Because it once again distracts from the very real subject we should all be concerned about.
Mar 26th, 2017 - 08:42 am - Link - Report abuse +2Kanye could not be more correct in his statement of the problem with the USA healthcare system. Besides, what all the American politicians doing with “Healthcare Reform” is not addressing the issues with healthcare, it s a feeble attempt of providing healthcare insurance to the population.
Mar 26th, 2017 - 01:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I strongly believe in the free markets and capitalists system but it has morphed into greedism over that past three decades. Not all resources should be driven by a profit motive, IMHO anyway:
1-primary education
2-healthcare
3-penal systems
4-military
5-Intelligence
That last one is scary as I have seen it in action and they are not bound by the same (almost non-existent) rule as free world government entities are.
The American healthcare system generates over 3 trillion dollars in the GNP, over 10k per individual in the US. A lot of that is profits and there is NO MOTIVE to make individuals healthy and NO RETURN, I am, what would that do for the bottom line?
And big pharma, hell....crazy. I take Humira.....$4,800 a month, $2,600 in Canada......$25 to manufacture. No generics, why, because the newly extended patents because of a labeling change and new use. Like Kanya said, there is no mandate for the people, just the stockholder. Not everything should be driven by the profit motive.
Capt Poppy
Mar 26th, 2017 - 03:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks for an illuminating, if depressing, summation.
At least now, some conversation will be generated on this subject and some of the truths exposed.
The powers that be are firmly entrenched though. How can it be undone? Who has the vision and influence to change things?
I am surprised Trumpcare failed to pass. There is so much deep anger in the US from people with employee health plans who now must pay a large fee when they access healthcare. They blame it squarely on Obamacare's support for the unemployed.
ElaineB
Somehow I think the media will get back on track regardless of temporary distractions.
To us in the UK (and the Falkland Islands I suspect) all this is totally baffling.
Mar 26th, 2017 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse +1How can a nation be so uncaring about their fellow citizens?
It's obviously costing far too much with money being absorbed by greedy insurers and fat cat clinicians and not benefitting patients? Nearly double the cost of the NHS in the UK!
All my American friends relate various stories to me that indicate that despite the cost it's actually little better than the NHS for the average Joe?
The American health system seems to be another US monster out of control!
When a nation of 320 million people exist, it's a stretch to collective say that the entire nation is uncaring to their fellow citizens. It is primarily the republicans believe that it is still a nation one one and the survival of the strongest with limited to no government interference. They do not believe that a society evolves, figuratively and literally. What is more confounding that that is who the GOP can get sub educated, sub wage earners to go along with that premise? I guess if you put fear into them, tell them they their guns are their only means of self preservation and anyone who if not a Republican wants to take them away.......that seems to work.
Mar 26th, 2017 - 05:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As for Kanye's inquiry: I would think that the American public, not all but many, need a serious education as to what socialism is and is not. Providing education, healthcare, defense/intelligence and internal security is by far.....not socialism. The GOP has taken that word and did to it what Sen. McCarthy did to communism and I am not in support of communism, just making the analogy. Anything that can remotely be called socialism is called socialism. Funny though that the vast majority of Americans love Medicare and SS, but nothing for the younger people of our society. At the end of the day, I am all set but there are too many who are not.
I think this period in the states is a painful, but short period. In the long run, they GOP bite the cyanide ampule.
Captain, I agree that is a stretch. All my pals in the US are lefties, some far left of me, and very caring people too. There is a different outlook in the US, mainly from Republicans - losers are not entitled, dog eat dog...But my friends in Louisiana took in homeless folk for months after the flood. Caring generous folks. Perhaps when the monsters depart things may change for the better.
Mar 26th, 2017 - 07:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Republicans have become very short sighted and focused only on corporate entities. The farther they continue that paradigm of corporate focus, the farther the democrats will move in the opposite direction.
Mar 27th, 2017 - 02:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0Louisiana is one the the most poor, mismanaged states in the union. It's up there with Wisconsin and Kansas. It's sad (Trumpitath) very sad that the republicans manages skills it to cut the taxes and she what shakes out.
I think in general, most Americans are decent people. However there are so many of us, legal and illegal that the ignorant, nasty sons of B's number quite large. Anyway, my country is seriously bending at the moment at the hands of a madman who admires Putin and so desperately seeks his approval. Fortunately for us, Putin has moved on to winning the hearts and minds of France.
And for the record, I am neither a democrat nor a republican, conservative or liberal. I tend to serpentine from left to right and often near the middle depending on the issue. Quite honestly, I considered myself quite apolitical during my career. One thing is certain, if Americans do not fight corporate takeover of Americans politics, The USA, Inc. will be a fact of life and the person sitting in the White House will be a CEO overseen by a BoD at Capital Hill.
The best recent summary of the situation that I have heard has been given by Dan Carlin: http://traffic.libsyn.com/dancarlin/cswdcd14.mp3
Mar 27th, 2017 - 03:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0I live in the states most of the time, I hardly need someone summarizing what is happening here. Supposedly you do as well.
Mar 27th, 2017 - 02:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@EB
Mar 27th, 2017 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is it that we should be concerned about this time?
@ DT
Mar 27th, 2017 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -1What Trump is trying to distract from is the Russian connections. I don't know how widely or in depth you have read about the connections all through his businesses and his political team. It is can of worms. Trump is happy to watch the media devote time away from it as he builds his power base.
I haven't read much in depth, I know he has business links and admires Putin (I just hope he doesn't adopt Putin's method of dealing with the opposition.) And they are still investigating the hacking stuff.
Mar 27th, 2017 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It took about a year to get Obamacare through congress and then the GOP spent the next seven years digging themselves into the repeal hole. They're in so deep that they cannot see a way out.
Mar 28th, 2017 - 12:50 am - Link - Report abuse +2The thing about the Obamacare bill was that it was loved - including by those congressmen and women who lost the subsequent midterm. The thing about Trumpcare is that it is loved by nobody - not even Trump. And not by the voters as various congressmen and women have found when they returned home. Even when home is northern DFW!
The “repeal and replace” of Obamacare is going to take much more than a year. So far Trump is showing that he does not have the stomach or the concentration for such a project. Who knew!
Heppy
Mar 28th, 2017 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse -1“The thing about the Obamacare bill was that it was loved”
erm... no it wasn't.
Just ask any American.
It was flawed and there was vigorous opposition and resentment.
Not fair perhaps, but there we are
U.S. citizens only need to look north of their border to find a single-payer health care system that costs the country much less than their own horrendous, punishing system based on corporate greed as rightly pointed out by several commentators here.
Mar 28th, 2017 - 05:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0How politicians from both parties have being dancing around the point and keeping their country as the only one among developed jurisdictions that does not have overall health coverage is mind boggling--or rather a show of the power of corporations over the welfare of citizens.
They don't even need to look at Canada, the US has its own system that most people are happy with: medicare. All they need to do is extend it to the whole population.
Mar 28th, 2017 - 07:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ DT
Mar 28th, 2017 - 12:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It goes so much deeper than a few business links. I am not so sure he admires Putin as much as he fears him. There are three investigations coming up so let's hope the full story comes out. Trump's corrupt and shady dealings are so widespread it will take years to unravel but pick one country and start there. Look to some of the countries formerly part of the Soviet Union and still looking towards the mothership. Trump didn't make his undisclosed money the way he would like you to believe and he owes a lot to some very unpleasant people.
This isn't about Republicans vs. Democrats and opposing political views because Trump has switched between the parties in the past. This is about Trump as an individual and the citizens of the U.S. need to look beyond party alliances because he is using that division as a smoke-screen.
Kanye the biggest issues from the public with regard to Obamacare was they it made buying insurance mandatory and the deductible started at $2,000, even with employer based insurance. That was the kicker, the employer based insurance, those people had their insurance degraded and the employee employer slit changed and the costs increased. So as an employee paying $55 per bi-weekly paycheck with a $500 deductible for in patient stays, the annual cost (excluding scripts and office co-pays) was like $1,930 per year if you worked for a decent employer. Now after Obamacare, depending whether you had single, married or family coverage, your insurance co-pay may now be $141 per bi-weekly paycheck, $2,000 starting deductibles and many as high as $4,000 for ALL service not just inpatient stays. So under Obamacare, that same person can be paying between $5,660 to $7,660 in annual cost before insurance AND your co-pays kick in. The working Americans did not and do not like Obamacare at all.
Mar 28th, 2017 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Without dissing Canada, it is far easier covering 20 million than 320 million people. Even an old, feeble as you should know that quique. The ultimate answer is in the profiteering of the American healthcare product. 3 trillion a year in healthcare expenses, what portion do you suppose goes to executive salaries in the millions per person or relates to dividend distributions?
Anyway, when they do remove the mandate to purchase insurance, the healthy will not be offsetting the not so healthy and that was the sole purpose of the mandate. Either way, healthcare in the USA, from a delivery point will continue to suck. However, you will still find some of the finest physicians fixing God’s mistakes, if you get my drift.
Ironically they do love Medicare....for elderly, but for some obscure reason they loath the concept for under 62.......figure that one out.
@EB
Mar 29th, 2017 - 07:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's not surprising in itself that he's done business in Russia or with Russians, and I really have no doubt that he will use his position as president to advance his own business interests. If there is more to it then I hope these investigations find it out.
Agreed he's not a Republican as such, probably he thought his ideas were a better fit there and/or their voters would be easier for him to appeal to. I think his anti-free trade stance is real and I'd say that is more popular on the left than the right.
@Captain Poppy
If covering the whole US is hard, could each state create their own system? That way the ones where most people want single payer could have it and others could stick with the insurance model?
For Medicare, they probably think if it was expanded to cover more people it would not be as good. Which would be true if they didn't raise taxes to pay for it. Really any system that doesn't get costs under control is going to suffer the same problem; if you cover more people, someone has to pay more.
@ DT
Mar 29th, 2017 - 08:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0That he has done business is not so unusual. But the nature is entirely suspect.
They could DT, and to some degree do. This is the dilemma with 50 sovereign states versus 50 national state/provinces. Sometimes that sovereignty is counterproductive to what is good for a nation, one standard for all the populace. This is exactly why states like.....The New England group , which have some of the best education systems and then you have Louisiana and Mississippi and such that are totally deplorable. When politicians try to have a minimum standard for the national, out screams the GOP over states’ rights. But the real issue is that it means increasing almost the nothing in income taxes of those states that do not want to educated, take care of their roads, fund disaster recovery, or keep their populace healthy.
Mar 29th, 2017 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Medicare is basically self-funded, the retirement portion is the issue of concern because you stop paying when you hit, and I think now 120K. After that, your percentage decreases.
Again hits never about what is good for the people as a whole.
Bernie Sanders Wants to Expand Medicare to Everybody — Exactly What Its Architects Wanted: https://theintercept.com/2017/03/31/bernie-sanders-wants-to-expand-medicare-to-everybody-exactly-what-its-architects-wanted/
Apr 02nd, 2017 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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