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EU-27 rapidly agree on negotiating guidelines: citizens' rights are center stage and demand UK “serious response”

Sunday, April 30th 2017 - 09:51 UTC
Full article 27 comments

European Council President Donald Tusk has called on the UK to come up with a “serious response” on what will happen to EU citizens in Britain after Brexit. “We need guarantees,” he said in Brussels as 27 EU leaders backed the bloc's Brexit negotiating guidelines. Read full article


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  • Clyde15

    They will get a serious response within two years.

    Apr 30th, 2017 - 06:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Pete Bog

    He has been told many many times. If the rights of British citizens living in EU states have guarantees, so will people from EU states living in the UK.

    Does this guy live on Mars? Does he never see the news?

    Apr 30th, 2017 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think

    Keep calm...Sassenachs...
    Just give those Eugies the famous three finger salute...

    Apr 30th, 2017 - 09:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Voice

    The more I hear of the EU demands the more I think they should be receiving a middle finger salute...
    My pro European stance is slowly dissolving...

    Apr 30th, 2017 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • DemonTree

    “the famous three finger salute” - Ctrl-Alt-Del??

    Apr 30th, 2017 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • LEPRecon

    Well if the EU agrees to a full independent audit of its funds from the day the UK joined the EU to present day then they can talk about funding.

    But the EU has been desperate for anyone to know where it's spending the EU taxpayers money and have constantly refused independent oversight.

    Now the only reasons to refuse independent oversight would be if you've either squandered the money, embezzled it, or both.

    So unless the EU opens itself up to a full audit then it can go and whistle for any money.

    If the UK refuses to pay what will they do? Cry? Refuse to trade with us? Big deal. There are over 200 countries in the world, many of them would be delighted to accept British money for their goods, and even happier that they wouldn't have to deal with all that nonsensical EU red tape.

    The EU is trying to persuade everyone in the world that they hold all the cards when in fact they're bluffing with a couple of deuces against the UK's Royal Flush.

    It'll all end in tears...but it won't be the British'll be the EU.

    And soon to follow will be Poland and Hungary, especially as the EU seems to be doing everything in their power to p!ss them both off.

    May 01st, 2017 - 10:15 am - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Think


    Not the mythical DOS Ctrl-Alt-Del last farewell salute...!

    I'm refering to the mytical myth of the Engrish bowmen three finger salute...

    The Frogs have even an auld and harsh..., never abolished..., regulative against it... :

    《 En oultre leur disoit et remoustrait comment les Francois se vantoient que tous les archiers Anglois qui seroient prins feroient copper trois doitz de la main dextre adfin que de leur trait jamais homme ne cheval ne tuassent. ;-》

    May 01st, 2017 - 10:55 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Sounds like you're talking about the 'two-finger salute', I've heard the same myth about that involving bowmen in France.

    We did have a real three-finger salute in the Scouts although it wasn't called that, I can't remember much about it now.

    The UK government offered to settle the question of EU citizens in the UK before even invoking article 50, but the EU refused, so obviously it isn't really that important to them. I suppose they want to delay trade negociations as blackmail to get the money they are demanding, but no deal at all would be bad for the EU as well, it seems a bit risky.

    May 01st, 2017 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree

    Problem is that I like me myths with some base in reality...
    And that mythical two finger Engrish longbowman salute would necessarily involve three fingers...
    Unless them Engrish took their teenager daughters' 40 pounds toybows to war against the Frogs...

    By the way...
    You Engrish have offered nothing... and the harrasment of EU citizens has already began...
    They are having problems because they didn't take that extra healt insurance NOBODY knew was necessary...
    Or because they can't precisely remember how many days they have spend abroad during their thirty years residence in the UK...

    Interesting times ahead..., indeed...

    May 01st, 2017 - 04:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    That just proves the myth has no basis in reality, since if it was true we'd be sticking up 3 fingers instead of 2.

    I was thinking of this:

    “The UK is pushing for an agreement within weeks on the rights of both Europeans living in Britain and British citizens residing on the continent, despite fierce opposition from Brussels. EU officials are determined there can be no official negotiations over Britain’s split from the EU until Article 50 is invoked.”

    I guess the EU just didn't want to agree to anything at all before Art 50, although this should have been easy.

    Is this what you are talking about with health insurance?

    Sounds ridiculous; all our immigration laws are bloody stupid and seem designed to cause as much trouble as possible to everyone without actually achieving what they are supposed to. I really don't think they are going to be throwing anyone out though, even if they can't get permanent residence. The only people who might have difficulty are those who don't have any evidence that they have been living in the UK.

    May 01st, 2017 - 05:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • The Voice

    The harrasment of the people of Gibraltar by the Spaniards, and the continuing harrasment of the people in the Falklands by Argentinian knuckleheads and squatting imported Norwegian moronic Shitstirrers is a far bigger problem than the actions of a few idiots shouting stupid insults at Poles in the UK. The Poles can go home, for the people of Gibraltar and the Falklands where they live IS their home.

    May 01st, 2017 - 06:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    I don't think I agree; no one has been murdered in Gibraltar or the Falklands, I haven't heard of anyone being beaten up by gangs of teenagers or stabbed with a broken bottle or having their nose broken by thugs. All those things have happened to Poles in Britain.

    People shouldn't have to leave their jobs and homes and lives behind or flee because of racist idiots in any country. And besides, we haven't any control over what Spain or Argentina do but we *can* try to improve things here.

    May 01st, 2017 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Islander1

    Lots of BIG businesses in France-Germany-Italy-Spain-Holland-Denmark etc who have BIG export sales into UK- Their Chief Executives are going to start telling the EU politicians about the real world before long!

    May 01st, 2017 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • AustrOllOpithecus

    The Real World... oh yes, that place.

    The one place the British have been avoiding all this time.

    Speaking of Royal flushes and BIG export sales, all you see here is the result of what the British claim to know much too well: how other countries are brainwashed in propaganda and fail to see the real world.

    Every time Argentina does something the UK doesn't like they dismiss it as some tin-pot “distraction maneuver” for domestic consumption. But what about Brexit?

    It has been for 40 years the ultimate distraction tool, especially the last two years. The British masses have been told so many fantasies, illusions, false information, and fake hopes, it is no surprise to read what we all read in this forum and all over the internet. The ultimate irony is they think they sit on a high perch talking about how Argies are brainwashed about the Falklands (though admittedly this is 100% correct), but they themselves are totally brainwashed by their cheap nationalist media, and the result is what you see today: the UK government and many of their citizens when actually encountering people in the real world about Brexit, are utterly dismayed and shocked that the other side could actually have demands or simply totally have the power to say “no”. The British are told they hold all the cards, the the other side has no recourse, that the other side is weak, the Britannia's might will shine through again.

    Well, it is shining alright, they are being schooled in diplomacy. It is not a fair match: the EU cannot exist without diplomacy, they have to practice it every day, in several languages, and have had practice time for 40 years now. Nothing in the EU happens without diplomacy between 27 nations.

    The UK has no such experience. It shows. And then throw in the brainwashed population... and here are the results. Total train wreck.

    May 01st, 2017 - 09:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -3
  • Pete Bog

    “but they themselves are totally brainwashed by their cheap nationalist media,”

    Nonsense. It is easy to see through the zenophobic rants of the newspapers that grace my cat's crap bowl.

    It is not a lie to say that the EU's accounts have not been audited properly.

    Therefore they are corrupt.

    The EU don't like it because there is no sugar daddy joining the EU, to replace the UK.

    With the UK, leaving who will contribute more than they take out?

    Germany, France, but who else?

    Are Spain (or for that matter, most of the EU countries) going to up their contributions?

    The EU are miffed because they have let a major fund contributor slip through their fingers.

    Even the frontrunner in the French Presidential election knows the EU has to change.

    They were warned by the UK.

    Maybe they will listen to France?

    Their problem if it needs repeating is that (once again, yaaawnn), the EU countries sell MORE to the UK than the UK does to the EU, and most of the EU fishing fleets sponged off British waters.

    This does not make the UK's position hopeless.

    The UK will lose in many ways, as well as gain by leaving the EU, no Brexiteer is ignorant to that, but the EU will lose the most if there is no trade deal.

    It's like comparing the Falklands War.

    Everyone said it was impossible for the Brits to win.

    The Brits lost more big ships than Argentina.

    Who won though, despite the concept of a British win being 'impossible'?

    May 01st, 2017 - 11:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • EscoSesDoidao


    May 02nd, 2017 - 01:12 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • The Voice

    No, wrong, Junkner was the one who was pissed. He has a reputation for that. Propably tried a bit of groping that failed and the comments were his revenge. Ever seen May pissed...thought not!

    May 02nd, 2017 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. EscoSesDoidao....

    It is much..., much... better in the original language...!

    A bit childish on the Engrish side to play hardball... when one considers that their Financial Sevice Industry accounts for ~35% of the UK's GNP and ~25% of the Exchequers income...

    And that about half of the above mentioned monies come from the €uro Clearing Market...

    May 02nd, 2017 - 04:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15


    The longbow requires the index finger to be placed above the arrow nock on the bowstring
    with the middle and ring fingers below at full draw weight. Some archers manage with only the index finger and middle finger. Cutting off two fingers would more than suffice to ensure that a bow could never be used. As to the origin of the V sign, I don't know either way.
    Just because someone refutes it does not mean that it did not happen.

    I have seen bowmen at the Scottish longbow distance events using only two fingers to draw and loose the bow. I could not but medieval bowmen were immensely strong compared to the average man today.
    Studies of the skeletons of archers have revealed that they had much denser bones in their arms, shoulders and backs almost to the extent of deformity.

    May 02nd, 2017 - 05:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Geeeeeeeee... Lowland gorilla...

    Why do you insist on commenting about things you know so little about...?

    1) Standard Engrish War Longbows with a draw weight of ~120 -160 pounds required (and still require) the use of three fingers... Period...

    2) Longbow archers use..., quite often..., the “three under” method...
    That is..., the index, middle and ring fingers on the string all below the arrow...
    This brings the arrow closer to the eye..., greatly facilitating instinctive aiming & shooting...

    But don't take me word for it... ask Mr. Lorton... He should be able to confirm me words...

    May 02nd, 2017 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I didn't know there was a 'three under' method, every time I tried archery it was one finger on top. Does anyone know which method they used back in the middle ages?

    May 02nd, 2017 - 10:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • golfcronie

    An Independent audit, are you serious? They would find it very hard to account for all the money put into the EU and how it was spent. I agree totally with you , but we are talking about politicians here, not the most honest of people.

    May 03rd, 2017 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...
    A current “three under” picture...
    The bonnie wee lasses are aiming south..., I Think...

    May 04th, 2017 - 12:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    That looks a tad awkward, maybe she'd do better if we lent her May to aim at?

    May 04th, 2017 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Clyde15

    As to the comment by the thicko chimp, he never stops commenting on things he doesn't understand
    The picture is not of an English warbow BUT of a composite target bow....a different type.

    From a Treatise on Archery...published ENGLAND....QUOTE !

    When taking aim, the Arrow is brought up towards the ear.

    Not in a line to the eye as many suppose. (See plate 1, figure 2.)

    Nor must (the Bow be so held as to bring the pile of the Arrow in a line with the eye and (the mark, for in that case when shot off, will go considerably to the left of it, for draw three imaginary lines front the mark to the eye, from the eye to the string when drawn up, and from the siring to the mark, and they form three sides or triangle.”


    Have you actually seen a longbow competition using a 6 foot bow. Have you spoken to archers who use them .

    The three under method can be used but it slows down the rate of fire. The English archers fired in volleys at about 200 yards range. They did not aim at individual targets but at groups of cavalry ....the majority of the arrows killing or wounding the horses. Speed of shooting was the main requirement.
    An arrow has to be picked up from the ground usually between the index finger and forefinger and placed on the bowstring. If using the three finger below method, he would have to disengage the index finger to come below the arrow nock. This would take a bit more time and possibly move the arrow fractionally on the string. This would reduce the rate of fire marginally but possibly critically.
    Not until about 50 yards would independent aimed shooting commence at individual targets using bodkin heads for armoured knights of broadheads for horses or infantry.

    If you wish to educate yourself...badly needed, I would recommend Roberts Hardy's
    Longbow: A Social and Military History.

    Also Bernard Cornwell's trilogy Harlequin, Vagabond and Heretic about archer's at Crecy

    May 05th, 2017 - 09:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think


    The Sassenach just above certainly used the past 48 hours to educate himsef about archery...
    Now he knows that one MUST use three fingers to draw a 120-160 pound Engrish longbow...
    Now he knows that there is a three under method that increases the Engrish longbow's precision...

    Never to old to learn new things..., lowlander...
    Think is proud of you...;-)

    May 05th, 2017 - 11:25 am - Link - Report abuse -1
  • DemonTree

    Here Think, I found you a salute with three fingers:

    Done by an archer too, very appropriate. ;)

    The Almighty Google says that 3 under is more accurate for closer shots, but the split method is faster and better for longer distances. Sounds like the latter would apply more in a war, but did people even know of both methods in medieval Europe?

    May 05th, 2017 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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