MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Falklands claims C24 is unresponsive to some non self governing territories, and has a colonialist attitude
The Falkland Islands said that the reason why some Non Self Governing Territories were unresponsive to the Special Committee on Decolonization, or C24, was that the issues proposed were not attractive, and to be effective it must engage with these territories in a more effective manner, and with a much less colonialist attitude. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesFalklands claims C24 is unresponsive to some non self governing territories, and has a colonialist attitude. True.
May 25th, 2017 - 10:54 am - Link - Report abuse +7Falklands - C24 Committee: https://www.academia.edu/11274445/Falklands_-_UN_C24_Committee
Deluded, and long overdue to be closed down or replaced, the C24 don't even recommend their own Falklands Resolutions for adoption by the General Assembly each year.
May 25th, 2017 - 11:06 am - Link - Report abuse +6So what was the point of making it? If I was a true cynic, I'd say that it was a pantomime for the gullible Argentine public to swallow. “He's behind you .... ” :-)
The Panto starts again next month. Will anything change? There is nothing to suggest it will.
The Argentine people are just mushrooms. Kept in the dark and fed .....
Ahhhh........
May 25th, 2017 - 11:37 am - Link - Report abuse -7MLA Mike Summers.......
- Always a smashing hit..., when he..., with his pinkish complexion..., his Savile Road suit..., his regimental tie... and his Church shoes appears in front of the brownies at the UN and..., in his posh Engrish..., tells them straight in the face that THEY are the colonialists...
Chuckle..., chuckle...
I see that you have got it right....for once.
May 25th, 2017 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse +3The UN Decolonization Committee...is colonialist!!!! There is something wrong Mike...Maybe it is time to recognise the UN position with regard to the manner in which the decolonization of the Malvinas/Falklands must occur and consequently find a way acceptable to all parties concerned. Your problem with air connections is an example of the difficulties created by the negative attitude towards the settlement of the dispute. Imagine there were no dispute, what would be the logical airport hub for the islands, geographically, technically and economically speaking? Santiago? Montevideo? Sao Paulo? Miami?...or Buenos Aires?
May 25th, 2017 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -9http://www.malvinas-falklands.net/
it is not unresponsive. The fact is you do NOT accept UN position (and C24 is UNGA body). That is the reason why. UNGA C24 has recognised self determination of NSGT where there is a colonized people, certainly not the case in Malvinas where its inhabitants are British and have besides reaffirmed this condition recently and, as such, part of one of the two parties to the dispute. C24 should certainly be more proactive and engage with UK too so that both countries can finally settle this dispute as mandated by the international community.
May 25th, 2017 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse -8Gosh it's been a while, but I see Think is a stupid little racist monkey as usual, Kohen is feeding his masters the usual bullshit (look see what I wrote on mercopress boss!), and martinez is barking up the same wrong tree.
May 25th, 2017 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Do these people never grow up?
One day, one day, they will grow a pair and submit their ridiculous claims to the UN ICJ/PCA, but until then, they are just a white noise that a loud fart will drown out.
So according to Think, you can decide who is a colonialist by the way they look and how they dress, and their actions are irrelevant.
May 25th, 2017 - 01:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Sadly though I suspect many UN members think the same way, based on how they have treated the various NSGTs.
Marcel Kohen y Alejomartinez
May 25th, 2017 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Un par de ignorantes cuyos argumentos no valen ni m----a! El arquipélago Fallkands es, ha sido y siempre será territorio británico - nunca ha pertenecido a Argentina.
TWIMC
May 25th, 2017 - 02:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -7And the “Brownies” first impression about that elegant dressed Engrish gentlemen appearing in front of them and accusing them of Colonialism gets soon confirmed by his actions...
Immediately after most of those boooring UN meetings... Mr. Summers takes a long spiritual retirement in his posh Spring/Summer/Autum residence in the French Provençe... bought with a minute part of the fortune he personally amassed by..., first voting for and then selling pirate fishing licenses to Asian slave ships in the South Atlantic...
Geeeeeeee....
The archetypical helpless victim of Colonialism...
In the auld days they used to wear pith helmets and Royal Enfields...;-)
Marcelo Kohen
May 25th, 2017 - 02:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Maybe it is time for the UN Decolonization Committee to recognise that the decolonization of the Malvinas/Falklands has already occurred.
UN Charter; DECLARATION REGARDING NON-SELF-GOVERNING TERRITORIES; Article 73; Members of the United Nations which have or assume responsibilities for ..peoples have not yet attained .. self-government recognize the principle ..b. to develop self-government, ...”
October 16th,1975
The ICJ presents its advisory opinion on two questions concerning Western Sahara; “The validity of the principle of self-determination, defined as the need to pay regard to the freely expressed will of peoples, ...” The Court also states; “The Charter of the United Nations, in Article 1, paragraph 2, indicates, as one of the purposes of the United Nations: “To develop friendly relations among nations based on ...the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples . .” This purpose is further developed in Articles 55 and 56 of the Charter. ...the subsequent development of international law in regard to non-self-governing territories, as enshrined in the Charter of the United Nations, made the principle of self-determination applicable to all of them”
Judge Dillard, .. adds; “ .. it is for the people to determine the destiny of the territory and not the territory the destiny of the people.”
As for the referendum the it was tacitly recognised by Argentina, otherwise she would have applied to the ICJ to have it estopped.
All answers in: http://www.malvinas-falklands.net/
May 25th, 2017 - 03:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -7Year after year the C24 meets to discuss the colonisation of the FALKLANDS,All the wankers on the C24 have never set foot on the FALKLANDS. Anyway it is only a “ jolly ” for some and all expenses paid.
May 25th, 2017 - 03:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Teacher: “Right class, pay attention there Think! Implementation of the Third International Decade for the Eradication of Colonialism: the future for decolonization in the Non-Self-Governing Territories: what are the prospects?”
May 25th, 2017 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Student with hand in the air: “Please Sir I know the answer.....Is it a seamless transition into the Fourth International Decade?”.
Wow Its incredible how Mike Summer discovered the plot. Argentina is so powerfull and colonialist that convinced the UNDC to mantain the Malvinas in the colony list so when there is a crisis in the argentine economy they could claim sovereignty over them, and just in case, put another eight “british” territories in that list just to piss them off and cede Malvinas to the Argentine empire.
May 25th, 2017 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -4I thought the british would eventually discover the c24 and Argentina colonialist plot to accuse the naive but intelligent british people, defenders of freedoms and the free market of oil in hands of bad mens of being the real bad guys.
Cheers.
Cmdr. McDod...
May 25th, 2017 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse -6Based on personal experience with your predictive habilities*..., I'll allow meself to doubt about that “seamless transition” of yours...
* (FHI down ~6% since our recent re-investment of the 60p left over from our original 50£ FOGL investment ;-)))
@Think
May 25th, 2017 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Of course they are not 'archetypical helpless victims of colonialism'. Few of the remaining NSGTs are. Some of them are too busy getting rich by being tax havens to want to worry about independence, and some are just too small to be viable countries. All of them have some degree of self government AFAIK and are a lot less 'oppressed' than many people living in independent countries, including some who make up the committee.
I don't think it's a wise thing for Mike Summers to say, but I doubt anything he says or does would make the slightest difference to the committee.
And I don't agree with TH that decolonisation has already occurred, however nicely the UK is treating them now. But the committee probably should delist the Falklands if they don't believe that a people in need of decolonisation exists there, the same way they delisted Hong Kong at the request of China. Their stated job is the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples, not resolving sovereignty disputes.
Demon Tree, if in an hipothetical case that a foreign power like France invades the Isle of Wight, expell its inhabitants and putting only french people or anyone who wishes to lives there under french laws and controlling migrations, could say the same thing you are saying. they could be self suffitient, self governed and still would be a french colony on british territory.
May 25th, 2017 - 04:06 pm - Link - Report abuse -7Unfortunatelly, that is a kind of colonialism you british do not believe exist. You think that the only colonialism is when a foreign power force another people to live under their conditions.
Sr. Marcelo Kohen...
May 25th, 2017 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse -4You say...
All answers in: http://www.malvinas-falklands.net/
I say...
Are you sure...?
I was led to believe that the “Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything”..., calculated by Deep Think over a period of 7.5 million years was 42...;-)
《en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(number)#The_Hitchhiker.27s_Guide_to_the_Galaxy》
Extracted from the MercoPress archives....
May 25th, 2017 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -4School Master: “Right class, pay attention there Think! Implementation of the International Year for the Eradication of Colonialism: the future for decolonization in the Non-Self-Governing Territories: what are the prospects?”
Schoolboy with hand in the air: “Please Sir I know the answer.....Is it a seamless transition into the International Decade?”.
Think:
Midshipman McDod...
Based on personal assessment of your predictive habilities..., I'll allow meself to doubt about that “seamless transition” of yours...
@Liberato
May 25th, 2017 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +2No, there were colonies like Australia or the USA where immigrants rapidly came to outnumber the original inhabitants, and although they originally considered themselves British and were treated much better than the native peoples they still demanded and got independence. Argentina was similar as the people fighting for independence from Spain were mostly not natives but the descendants of Spanish and other immigrants, so I think forcing your 'own' people to live under your conditions is also a kind of colonialism.
But do you really care if the Falklands is a colony or not? If they became independent Argentina would still claim the islands, even though Britain would be gone. Would you be happy if they were independent?
Here is a previous article in which Marcelo Kohen explains why taking their bullshit “claim” before the UNICJ is the only way forward for the Republic of Argentina
May 25th, 2017 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +4http://en.mercopress.com/2004/06/23/international-hague-court-only-alternative-for-dispute
I wonder why they refuse to do it?*
* Don't worry......I know why ;-D
What I find so challenging in the “decolonization” debate is that in some cases like the Falklands, there is no wish to be decolonized, everybody is happier with their own government and being an UK Overseas Territory than the Argentines with their government and constitutional arrangements. We appear to “want” the UN to force a successful bit of the First World in to a confused and failing bit of the Third World.
May 25th, 2017 - 07:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +4What is more that Third World Country Argentina is full of conquered and colonized and unhappy real South Americans who desperately need help with decolonization of their own (The UN has even requested Argentina to stop expelling these colonized natives off their lands) Yet there is no request for these poor natives who really need help to be decolonized and to preserve their culture and lands .. Perhaps Marcelo Kohen can explain if this conundrum makes any sense.
What practical purpose does the C 24 serve, does it help Tibet, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia? The South American natives all over that subcontinent? Does the C 24 only aim at the Western First World? What about the big Socialist Empires (conveniently camouflaged as something else)?
I can't see the C 24 serving any practical purpose, those who need it are ignored by it, those who don't want it don't know how to get rid of its unwanted attention.
http://www.malvinas-falklands.net/
May 25th, 2017 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +3All the lies, fairy tales, myths and historical misinterpretations of Argentina are contained in this document - NOT recommended reading!
Kohen still trying to sell that comic book?
May 25th, 2017 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +4I don't have to imagine that there's no dispute. What dispute?
Resolved according to the UN GA since 1989, according to the flow of resolutions.
1965: Resolution 2065 – invites the UK and Argentina to negotiate “with a view to find a peaceful solution to the problem.”
Superseded by
1973: Resolution 3160 – declares the need to “proceed without delay with the negotiations” to find a “peaceful solution to the problem.”
Superseded by
1976: Resolution 31/49 – calls for negotiations to be expedited; and asks the parties to refrain from “unilateral modifications in the situation.”
Superseded by a unilateral modification - Argentina invades the Falkland Islands
1982: Resolution 37/9 – requests a resumption of negotiations “to the sovereignty dispute.”
Superseded by
1983: Resolution 38/12 – reiterates the request that both nations resume negotiations “to the sovereignty dispute.”
Superseded by
1984: Resolution 39/6 - reiterates the request that both nations resume negotiations “to the sovereignty dispute.”
Superseded by
1985: Resolution 40/21 – requests the two governments to “initiate negotiations with a view to finding the means to resolve peacefully and definitively the pending problems between both countries..”
Superseded by
1986: Resolution 41/40 – reiterates its request for the two governments to “initiate negotiations with a view to finding the means to resolve peacefully and definitively the pending problems between both countries..”
Superseded by
1987: Resolution 42/19 - reiterates its request for the two governments to “initiate negotiations with a view to finding the means to resolve peacefully and definitively the pending problems between both countries..”
Superseded by
1988: Resolution 43/25 - reiterates its request for the two governments to “initiate negotiations with a view to finding the means to resolve peacefully and definitively the pending problems between both countries.”
Negotiations in 1989. Job done
C24 does not exist to decolonize territories but to provide a bunch of sponges with the opportunity to suck huge salaries and exciting first class travels and living in five star hotels.
May 25th, 2017 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse +5In the horrible event that the different territories were removed from the (seemingly eternal) list, they would lose their livelyhoods.
Liberato writes: “expell its inhabitants”
May 26th, 2017 - 12:01 am - Link - Report abuse +5Do name the civilians who were expelled by great Britain.
You can find them here ... well, there were exactly 0 (zero)
Printed in Ernesto J. Fitte: “La agresión Norteamericana” pp.372-373
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5053/5533028871_5a2bfae23c_b.jpg
Photo of the original letter:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5053/5533028871_5a2bfae23c_b.jpg
Archivo General de la Nación, VII, 130, doc. 62 fol. 1 recto.
Printed in the series “Academia Nacional de la Historia.”. “El Episodio Ocurrido en Puerto de la Soledad de Malvinas el 26 de Agosto de 1833: Testimonios Documentales”, Serie documental. Tomo III, Buenos Aires, 1967, 122-128.
I'm reliably informed, by Think, that Mercopress only permit one link St.John - hence your photo is not there.
May 26th, 2017 - 12:26 am - Link - Report abuse +1So cynical Don Alberto :-)
England will return the Malvinas within 25 years.
May 26th, 2017 - 01:27 am - Link - Report abuse -3I shall give it another try
May 26th, 2017 - 03:10 am - Link - Report abuse +2https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5137/5533643350_7d94862ca9_b.jpg
Demon Tree, So you are trying to avoid what happened to Australia and The USA by making an apartheid of argentines in Malvinas? how noble. I wonder how wonderfull would be the USA if they could stop the spanish inmigrants colonization. How great would be the world without the colonization of Mc Donalds, the beatles, etc.
May 26th, 2017 - 03:27 am - Link - Report abuse -6I guess for you there are two colonizations, the nice ones and the ugly ones. The nice ones are those who benefit the exports of British companies and culture, and the ugly ones are the inmigrations of south american citizens to south americans islands like Malvinas. So was late for the UK in the USA and Australia but trying hard in the Malvinas right?.
quote:“But do you really care if the Falklands is a colony or not? If they became independent Argentina would still claim the islands, even though Britain would be gone. Would you be happy if they were independent?”
IF Britain would have really wanted to decolonize the islands, the status of independent or not, would be irrelevant to both of us, even if i consider them ours and you considers them not. Many thinks Uruguay was created by the british as a buffer state to have access to the river plate there are 3 millons Uruguayans and we are more than 40 and still they are not afraid of argentine colonization.
Are you colonizing Spain too with your inmigrants? there are too many british there, how dangerouse for Spain.
Livepeanuts wow so colonialism is good when is taken by a rich nation like the UK?. Should i continue?.
Roger Lorton, The UN stopped to take the case of Malvinas in the UNGA not becouse it is settled, but becouse in that negotiations it was agreed by the uk and Arg on not presenting claims temporarilly to the GA putting aside the sovereignty claim in a sovereignty umbrella formula you knew that. Nevertheless, the topic of Malvinas are back in the agenda of the GA, without presenting them yet.
St.John, i was not talking about 1833 and by your link i count 54, 55 if we count Argentina
Same comments and same posters every year.
May 26th, 2017 - 05:31 am - Link - Report abuse +3How many years has it been now?
The C24 can continue to meet year in year out and spout as much nonsense as it wishes.
But the plain and clear fact is that every year the Falklands are less and less likely to ever be Argentinean.
It is 2017 and Argentina has not advanced its claim a single millimetre in the past year.... I mean decade..... I mean century.
Soon we'll have lots of C24 articles and then before you know it there'll be a lull before this is all repeated in 2018..... then 2019.... 2020 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025 2026 2027 2028 2029 2030 2031 2032 and the one I can't wait for.... 2033
I, for one, can't wait for the C24 articles every year be said the one thing they clearly highlight is that the Falkland Islands are British and not Argentinean.
Every single year they reassert this concentrate fact.
Right skip.
May 26th, 2017 - 07:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0St John - Thank you. I have a copy, but important for others IMHO
May 26th, 2017 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse +3Liberato - you must have secret information; “the topic of Malvinas are back in the agenda of the GA.” Upon what to you base this revelation, and why isn't it in all Argentina's newspapers this morning?
Certainly up until the Secretariat's March (never made the website & reissued in May for no known reason) working paper seems to suggest business as usual. Obviously I am wrong, and the GA will consider the Falklands Question for the first time since 1988 (possibly 1989 or 1990 - but the GA never published more than a single sentence from the President of the GA).
I look forward to the debate Liberato ..................... do you have the date?
Falklands - 1833 Usurpation & UN Resolutions: Falklands – 1833 Usurpations & UN Resolutions:
May 26th, 2017 - 09:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.academia.edu/21721198/Falklands_1833_Usurpation_and_UN_Resolutions
@Liberato
May 26th, 2017 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse +2I explained that badly. What I mean is: I do believe in your other kind of colonialism, and I think the USA, Australia, and other countries including Argentina are examples of it. And they all wanted independence and got independence one way or another.
I don't think Spanish immigrants moving to the USA is colonisation, so long as they intend to become Americans. And neither is Argentines or Brazilians moving to Uruguay. But imagine if Brazil still claimed Uruguay as a province, then maybe they would not want lots of Brazilians moving there.
I would be perfectly happy if the islands were independent, but 3000 people is really too little. And I think Britain is willing to decolonise them, it's just not willing to go against their wishes to do so. Before the war Britain hoped to persuade them to agree to join Argentina, but now that is impossible.
Lorton in paragraph 4 (b) of the annex to resolution 58/316 of 13 July 2004 the UNGA decided in its review that the Malvinas question shall remain on the agenda for consideration upon notification by a member state.
May 27th, 2017 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse -3If you read all UNGA assembly each year you will see that the question of Malvinas is in the agenda. The fact there is not resolutions or discussion about it is, again, becouse of the sovereignty umbrella.
So the question of Malvinas is far from being solutioned.
Demon Tree, even if we imagine Brazil still claiming Uruguay, Uruguay would not refuse the entry of brazilian for the same reason you think south americans inmigrants moving to the USA are not for colonisation purpose.
But in the islands...... it is another story. For your fear that all argentines going there are there for colonisation purposes, you have living there more people that were born in london or near it in the other part of the world than in the suposedly community you are “trying” to protect.
Liberato, read your own words - “ upon notification ”.
May 27th, 2017 - 02:59 am - Link - Report abuse +2Hasn't been any notification since 2004 has there?
Why not?
@Liberato
May 27th, 2017 - 10:17 am - Link - Report abuse +2“Uruguay would not refuse the entry of brazilian”
Depends how many moved there. If a million Brazilians moved to Uruguay, that would cause a lot of problems for Uruguay. If 4 million moved there, it would become a Portuguese speaking country instead of a Spanish speaking one. I think people would object long before that happened.
In the islands the local government is supposed to be in charge of immigration, so it is their fear that has lead to them preferring people from London, or Chile, or St Helena over Argentina.
@Marcelo Kohen
May 27th, 2017 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +3“...Maybe it is time to recognise the UN position with regard to the manner in which the decolonization of the Malvinas/Falklands must occur ”.
Your answer, Marcelo courtesy of Demon Tree:
”Their (the C24) stated job is the Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples”
Who has moved the Falkland Islands nearer to Independence,(i.e. decolonised it) the UK or Argentina?
I'll give you a clue.
Every revisal of the Falkland Islands constitution has resulted in more autonomy from the UK, for the Falkland Islands Government.
The UK has not imposed MORE colonialism on the FIG, it has removed it from the Falklands.
Argentina goes completely against the C24s mandate, i.e. 'The declaration on the Granting of Independence' as Argentina has not advocated Independence for the Falkland Islands.
Indeed, Argentina wishes to colonise the Islands, which is against an organisation that seeks to de-colonise NSGTs.
Also the C24 is meant (according to its own rules)to send its members to visit the territories in question.
The C24 has, against their own mandate, failed to send any delegation to the Falkland Islands.
Therefore Marcelo, if the C24 don't follow their own rules, why should the UK should take any notice of an organisation that breaks its own rules?
Lorton, really? Didnt you read the joint statement of 1989?. I know you dont read decolonization committe resolutions, you brits are beyond that, but if you take a little more of your time to read the UNGA and UNDC, you wouldnt be asking me these questions. To resume to you. The Question of the Malvinas are in the GA agenda but it is not discussed becouse of an interim mutual agreement between Argentina and the UK. That is the sovereignty umbrella formula that is not a solution to the dispute but an interim formulla of putting the claim on ice in the so called seduction policy.
May 27th, 2017 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse -3for instance, you can read what President Kirchner said in the UNDC years ago.
Demon Tree, how many millons of argentines moved to the islands or pretended to move to the islands?.
quote:“In the islands the local government is supposed to be in charge of immigration...” LOL The “local government” have been composed historically by far with people not born in the islands located in the South Atlantic but in islands located in the North Atlantic. But since when do you consider the islands stopped being a colony?.
Pete Bog, you give as a fact, there is a people in the islands different to those living in the UK. That is not the truth. There is the same people that lives in the UK. And is in UK's interests to give any status, and i mean, ANY, to legitimate their own population there as the “legitimate owners” of the islands because it is a charade. Its like if we invade part of Cuba putting our own citizens and claiming self determination rights. Of course in that case we would be more than willing to grant them independence before returning the land to Cuba.
Besides the UN have never invoked self determination for the population living in the islands as a way to end the sovereignty dispute and even refused to do so when the UK wanted to include it in the UNGA resolution 40/21.
@Liberato
May 27th, 2017 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't suppose there are very many people in Argentina who want to live in such an isolated place, but it wouldn't take millions; I'm sure you could find 3000 people patriotic enough to go and live there for a few years, or your government could just pay people to move there.
I don't know who the local government is composed of, but nowadays it is elected by the people who live there. Perhaps one of the Falklanders posting here could tell us where the MLAs are from?
And if by colony you mean non self governing territory, I consider they still are one. The government there has a lot of powers, but the UK can overrule them at any time if it chooses.
Interim since 1989? 28 years of “interim.” So tell me Liberato, why would Argentina concede so much? What did they get in return?
May 28th, 2017 - 01:08 am - Link - Report abuse +3Interim appears to have become the status quo on its way to being the norm.
Fact remains, UN GA has had nothing to say since 1988. No member raises its voice to have the question placed upon the Agenda for discussion. Not even Argentina.
Seems that the deal done in 1989 settled the matter - a deal so strong that not even CFK dared break it.
Settled.
Demon Tree
May 28th, 2017 - 09:49 am - Link - Report abuse +2An old friend of mine, 100% porteño, always used to say that nobody would ever leave the mainland to settle in the Falklands archipelago because there is nothing there to attract the Argentine population - no decent bars, the weather wouldn't suit them, too isolated etc etc.
Liberato
May 28th, 2017 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse +5“there is a people in the islands different to those living in the UK. That is not the truth.”
It is the truth. Falkland Islanders born in the Islands cannot be from the UK.
You are under the false impression that every islander is flown in from the UK.
“ Its like if we invade part of Cuba putting our own citizens and claiming self determination rights.”
Britain first had people on the Falklands in 1765 which was a contributing basis for their claim for the islands. Britain did not eject any civilian population off the Falkland Islands.
In 1833, the civilian population were not ejected, only the illegal military force. Most of the civilian population were of South American origin and contrary to the untruths spread by your country, there were no British people unloaded from HMS Tyne or HMS Clio in 1833.
In fact the settlement had no more than 2 or 3 people of British origin in 1833, unless you count the Jamaicans.
When Vernet had settlements on the Falkland Islands, in the 1820s he sought permission from the British Consulate in Buenos Aires.
Why, if the British Government had no claim to the Islands?
“Besides the UN have never invoked self determination for the population living in the islands as a way to end the sovereignty dispute”
In 2008 a motion at the UN, submitted by Argentina and Spain to deny the right of self determination to territories where there was a sovereignty dispute, was defeated.
Therefore, you are wrong, the principle of self determination applies to all.
There are some people that emigrate from the UK to the Falklands.
There are also many people that emigrate to Argentina from different countries. According to you, they or any children born in Argentina cannot be Argentine.
LIberato, Do please check facts before you speak- you are as bad as Marcos etc. Both Head and Deputy Head of Falkland Islands Dept of Customs and Immigration are Islanders by birth. Of our 8 Elected Assembly Members, 6 are Islanders by birth - that is 75% if you can count.I thus assume you would dissallow and Argentine citizen not born in Argentina then standing for your Congress by your rules?
May 28th, 2017 - 04:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Under the UN Regulations themselves(as we are not Independent fully and UN recognizes UK as the administering power) UK is responsible for ensuring good free democratic Government in the Islands, and reporting on this to the UN - thus UK has the right-should they need to do in extreme circumstances of financial fraud- criminal activity-suppression of freedoms etc, of intervening in our elected internal self Government and imposing direct rule from London.
To date UK has only ever done this once in an overseas territory - in the Turks and Caicos Islands - and that was well done as we all became aware of the activities and fiddling that was starting to happen there in that era.
You might as well try to argue that Canada is not Independent as it has a Governor General and the Queen as Head of State! Its the way we in the civilized world often put in a system of checks and balances to try and prevent thieving and pocket lining by corrupt politicians and governments - maybe Argentina needs to try something similar?
What you cannot dispute though, is that Argentina wants to Colonise the Islands and force a Government upon us that we do not want- good old 18th Century stuff.
Rest of the world has moved on since those days!
Lorton, yeap we are still under the sovereignty umbrella and with no success and with nothing in return as you say. But it is our fault i guess for thinking the UK was willing to cooperate on decolonize the islands and the rest of the 8 more british colonies.
May 28th, 2017 - 06:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -2The umbrella formulla did not settled the dispute. That is only your imagination talking. you only need to read the joint declaration, how the question of Malvinas are still in the UNGA agenda and the UNDC resolutions to figure it out.
Gordo1, that is only an opinion, not reality. And if you think like your friend, why the british are so frightened by Argentines going there for living, working or investing if there is so little interest in argentines about the islands?. open the inmigrations to everybody or reduce it to everybody, but with equal rights, and with a help of nature, may be there will be no colonialism in this world.
PeteBog
quote:“You are under the false impression that every islander is flown in from the UK”. We can discuss it in every aspect of the colonial government of the islands. How many of those chileans living there have a “falklands” status? how many of them can buy land?. Why no Argentine can invest there or buy land? why half of the land and the mayority of the economy are managed by a company wich its principal shareholder were born in london and do not want it to be shared with an argentine?.
The mayority of land are in hands of people born in Britain, the Education is based on britain's imported teachers, its judiciary system is based on lawers and judges that travel from Britain once a year, and lets not talk about the government and the military and external relations. So i think there is not pretty much a self determined people dont you think?.
In 1765 the british people that went there illegally, returned to britain in 1774.
If we are gonna talk about history, the british did not discovered the islands first, did not claimed the islands first and did not settle them first.
Liberato
May 28th, 2017 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +2You clearly know nothing about the Falkland Islands as your assertions are totally wrong. ¡NABO!
No matter how you look at this, Argentina's 'solution' is to colonise the islands by planting their own people here.
May 28th, 2017 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Liberato
I know you most likely won't believe me or don't want to listen but a lot of what you said in your posts above is simply nonsense. I guess the facts won't suit your argument as much. Let me know if you'd like me to explain point by point how wrong your assertions are. I could also easily prove it.
What....?
May 28th, 2017 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Nah I don't think so...Argentina doesn't want to colonise the islands...it does not want a colony, it wishes to integrate the islands with mainland Argentina...
An intergral part of Argentina...
Unlike the present colonial situation where the islanders wish to remain a colony, they do not want to be an integral part of Britain...
Argentina....so they have indicated, have no wish to remove the islanders, they would merely become Argentine citizens...
So the term colonise is hardly applicable to Argentina...
What...?
May 28th, 2017 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse +2They would throw us all out as soon as they could and take over and send in their own people. That's colonisation. You can only argue it's not colonisation if you already believe that the Falklands is part of Argentina... it isn't.
Back in your hole...
Liberato - we British do not include recolonization as decolonization. The people of the islands get to decide, as is right and proper. Argentina's claims are entirely spurious.
May 28th, 2017 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Argentina was never in the game. Still isn't.
The Islanders should get what they wish for Voice - whatever that may be. The chances of them ever wishing to be absorbed by Argentina are about the same as the SNP wishing to be absorbed by the Tories.
Mr.Islander1...
May 28th, 2017 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse -3You say...:
《”To date UK has only ever done this (intervene) once in an Overseas Territory ”》
I say...:
Ain't ya forgetting the 2004 Engrish “Child Abuse” intervention in Pitcairn...?
As I remember..., the Engrish Task Force ended sending ~15% of Pitcairn's population to jail...
Wonder if the ongoing “Operation Cinnamon” in Malvinas will have a similar result...
@Voice
May 28th, 2017 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -1True, it would be more accurate if they said Argentina wants to annex them, although there's probably not a huge amount of difference from their point of view.
@Joe Bloggs
I'd like to know if what Liberato's said is wrong even if he doesn't, do you mind answering his questions?
@Islander1
Thanks for answering that, I suspected Liberato was wrong. And I think anyone can run for congress in Argentina but the President has to be born there, which is not generally true for Prime Ministers in Commonwealth countries. Australia recently had two in row who were born in Britain.
Does it bother you that you're not independent, and Britain can do things that affect you like leave the EU, without you even having a vote?
No child abuse in Argentina then Think? A utopia I hear :-)))
May 28th, 2017 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse +215%? LOL Yes, all 7 of them.
Is Operation Cinnamon still “ongoing”?
Demon Tree
May 28th, 2017 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse +5There is nothing in our legislation that specifically prevents Argentines from moving to the islands. The immigration ordinance applies equally to everyone. This is easy to check and verify. Some Argentines live here. Many more Chileans live here than Argentines and the same rules apply. I could understand why Argentines would feel uncomfortable, perhaps even unwelcome here but the legislation doesn't make it so.
I don't have the census figures to hand but a significant number of long-term Chilean residents have Falkland Islands status. A lot of others come here short-term on work permits to work but that suits them. Chileans who now call the islands home are well represented in ther own businesses or in substantive posts in both the civil service and private sector. We control our own immigration system.
Liberato says the majority of the land is in the hands of people born in Britain. That simply is not true. I guess you can try to convince yourself it is true if you believe the majority of white European-looking people here were born in Britain but they weren't. A lot of their ancestors were but there may many generations of seperation these days. There are also lots of people living here who were born in
It is true that we choose to adopt elements of the British education system model but we are not part of it; we simply choose to make up our curriculm from similar ones in the UK. We could freely choose otherwise. Our teachers don't all come from the UK either: some are from Australia, New Zealand and the Republic of Irela, many were born here. The head teacher of our junior school is a Falkland Islander of many generations but I guess you would describe her as born in Britain, perhaps. We have Argentines working in one of our schools.
We also adopt and have no choice but to uphold many UK laws. This is no different to what Australia, New Zealand, Canada and lots of other former British countries did until they moved further towards independen...
Jo Bloggs
May 29th, 2017 - 06:51 am - Link - Report abuse +2Great post!
@Jo Bloggs
May 29th, 2017 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Thanks. So although there is no law to stop Argentines moving there, still very few have. I suppose most would have good reason to feel unwelcome given attitudes on both sides, and I'm guessing those short-term jobs are advertised in Chile but not in Argentina?
Can anyone buy land or do you have to be a resident? I gathered from the articles about FIH that most companies need a licence to buy land, but that one has a special exception?
And I'm not surprised you follow the British education system, but I it must be difficult to find teachers in such a small place. With only a few jobs available, you'd have to be very lucky to have the right mix of people locally able and willing to take them, and there wouldn't be many chances for promotion without leaving the islands either. How many schools are there?
I'm loving the attempts at logic by the Argentineans but seriously, it's 2017....
May 29th, 2017 - 04:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +3That's all the argument you need to negate all the trolling by any Argentinian.
It's 2017 and the Falkland Islands are not part of Argentina.
Argue all you want on whether Argentina ONCE had sovereignty. The simply fact is that only the UK has had sovereignty since 1833.
And there are ZERO prospects of future Argentinian sovereignty at this time.
2017..... you've all been arguing the exact same points for several years in here.... but it's 2017!
Islander1, in response to your earlier post, how many assembly members not born in the islands or in the UK or from any other commonwealth did you have in history, elected as legislative member?.
May 29th, 2017 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -275% uh? And what about the last assembly? And the previews to that assembly?. 25% may be of islanders born?.
With all due respect, let me explain to you that regardless of what you consider, the UN regards the islands as a non self governing territory. A territory with a colonial situation, not a self determined not a british territory either, just a colony. And they regards the UK as the administering power of that colony.
Turks and Caicos, well, a “born in Britain” judge that did not even lived on Turks… acussed the governor of corruption and the UK eliminated the colonial government, removed its “constitution”, and managed the islands as in the old ways of the empire.
Canada is independent and is run from Canada by Canadians. In the Malvinas there are only british people and is run from Britain.
It is funny that you mention civilized world to refers to the anglosphere, while at the same time, you live in a territory regarded as a colony, administered by a colonial power that “civilized” Iraq with bombs and took their oil without finding a F….ing weapon of mass destruction.
But for you it is Argentina the colonial power that influenced the c24 with our greatness evil.
Pete Bog, Quote:“There is nothing in our legislation that specifically prevents Argentines from moving to the islands. The immigration ordinance applies equally to everyone. This is easy to check and verify” LOL
You think there arent more argentines there becouse of feeling uncomfortable or unwelcome????? May be thats why Argentines are no alowed to buy land toothere becouse you british do not want us to feel that way. How nice you are. Or when argentines heirs were obliged to sell the property they had inherited in Malvinas.
Your own census now shows about feeling more than origins..
The law has nothing to do with why there are less Argentines here. My firm employs South Americans and we use an agency in Chile. Why on earth would we bother dealing with an Argentine firm? We get hundreds of good quality applications from Chile for every single vacancy we ever have. The Chileans we employ are, on the whole, great, hard working, loyal people. We have weekly flights to their home town and we couldn't ask for more of them. They even tell us not to employ Argentines.
May 30th, 2017 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse +2Argentines are free to buy land here in the same way any other foreign national can qualify to do so.
Get over it.
25% of Australians were born in another country.
May 30th, 2017 - 12:38 am - Link - Report abuse +2And 25% were born to at least one parent born in another county.
But according to Liberato they can't be Australians?
Makes you wonder how Argentinians managed to become Argentinian.
Independence and identity don't have to come from violence as all of Latin America did!
But Liberato did get one thing right, the UN does only recognise the UK as the only country that has sovereignty over the Falkland Islands.
Can't see that changing either.
Skip
May 30th, 2017 - 12:51 am - Link - Report abuse +3It would be quite interesting to hear what Liberato's definition of an Argentine is.
Indeed the UN does regard the Falklands as a Non-Self Governing Territory with obligations upon the Administering Power to lead the people of the NSGT to a “full measure of self-government.” Once that is achieved the next logical step is for a plebiscite so that the people of the NSGT may exercise their right of self-determination.
May 30th, 2017 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse +3At this point, the UN stalls because it'll only accept a limited range of outcomes and even ignores the more general option that it once voted for.
The Falkland Islands NSGTs' people have attained a “full measure of self-government” and have had their plebiscite. That they chose from the fourth option now not recognised by the UN that made it, is hardly their fault - or their problem.
Argentina maintains that its date of existence was 1816 despite nobody actually recognising it was there before 1825. If the Islands' people wish to refer to themselves as a country so be it.
The matter is settled, and the UN has not said a word in 28 years.
I just looked up the rules for getting this 'Belonger' status in other BOTs. Turns out the Falklands is actually quite generous!
May 30th, 2017 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In Bermuda you can live and work there for 20 or 30 years and still not be eligible, and even if you marry a Bermudan you have to live there for 10 years first, and without it you can only buy land or property that is in the top 5% most expensive.
In British Virgin Islands the government has committed itself to naturalising no more than 25 persons a year.
In Gibraltar you have to be a British citizen first and also live there for 25 years, or else marry a Gibraltarian.
In the Turks and Caicos you have to be married to a Belonger for 5 years or be granted it by the Governor for making “an outstanding contribution to the economic and social development of the Islands”.
And this all applies to British citizens too, despite the fact that people from any of these territories are free to move to Britain, and live, work, vote, and buy property with no restrictions whatsoever.
@Jo Bloggs
I thought so. Your firm could use an agency in Argentina but you'd rather have Chileans, and no doubt other employers in the islands feel the same way. And I just bet they tell you not to employ Argentines; they'd rather have those jobs themselves.
Also I think it's funny that Liberato is simultaneously complaining that there are too many non-islanders living there, and that it's too hard for the Chileans living there to get Falklands status. :)
@Roger Lorton
Self-determination is supposed to be the tool used for decolonisation, it isn't decolonisation in itself. They can't force people to vote for independence or one of the other options but they aren't going to take them off the list until they do.
It's all cake and eat it with the BOTS they want all the traits of Independence, whilst still remaining a colony...
May 30th, 2017 - 01:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -2....well... apart from having to pay for their own defence...
UN...
“Noting that a number of Non-Self-Governing Territories have expressed concern at the procedure followed by some administering Powers, contrary to the wishes of the Territories themselves, of amending or enacting legislation for application to the Territories, either through orders in council, in order to apply to the Territories the international treaty obligations of the administering Power, or through the unilateral application of laws and regulations,”
Mr. DemonTree...
May 30th, 2017 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse -3You say...:
《“In British Virgin Islands the government has committed itself to naturalising no more than 25 persons a year”》
I say...:
In British Occupied Malvinas Islands the government has committed itself to naturalising no more than ........* persons a year.
* Please fill the dotted line with the correct figure...
(If to difficult..., please contact me and I will provide a “multiple choice” option..., as the Yanks luuuv...)
@Think
May 30th, 2017 - 02:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As far as I know it has done no such thing. Link?
@Voice
Isn't the UK legally obliged to make sure they follow those treaties? Do they object to following the laws or do they just want to be able to pass them themselves, even though they still wouldn't have a choice?
DemonTree
May 30th, 2017 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -3I don't know, but...
Here's a five minute read that covers some interesting points...
http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/pdf/dp_2009_02_corbin.pdf
2009 Voice? Was that a good year for decolonisations? Oh, of course not, there were no decolonisations during the 2nd decade. Now we are in the 3rd and no sign of decolonisations yet again. In fact, the C24 are floundering if that last jolly out to st. Vincent was anything to go by. No idea what to do.
May 30th, 2017 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +3The FIG decide who gets 'naturalised' in the Falklands Think, not the UK. Up to them.
About time the C24 was disbanded. Just a waste of time. The status quo appears to be ..... well, the status quo. Nothing is likely to change in the 3rd, 4th or even 5th Decade.
LordTon
May 30th, 2017 - 03:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -3There is a proper way to do it recognised by the UN that allows colonies to be removed from the list...
Cook Islands and Niue...
They were on it and now they are not...
They conduct their own foreign affairs...Microstates....
Why have the Falklands not emulated this route...?
@Voice
May 30th, 2017 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Because the UK refuses to allow free association (or integration), so they don't have that option. I'd like to know why our government won't even consider anything but full independence.
@Roger Lorton
Sure the committee is strikingly ineffective, but that's not a good thing. It's not like having a bunch of tax haven islands is a benefit for the UK (for our politicians on the other hand...), and the unequal relationship can easily lead to resentment on both sides.
But since the committee is apparently useless and the UK is not going to do anything, these places need to start considering other options for themselves, or just bite the bullet and vote for independence.
Voice, V0ice, Vestige, Think et al, sock-puppeteer extraordinaire
May 30th, 2017 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +3“There is a proper way to do it recognised by the UN” If you’re trying to foist authority on some bureaucratic entity then you’re out of luck. As there has been absolute compliance by both the UK and the FIG with the required obligations of the UN Charter. Anything that attempts to supersede that requirement is in breach of the UNC article 103 which is the absolute final authority.
Mr. DemonTree...
May 30th, 2017 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse -4It was too difficult..., huhhh...?
That's what' happen when a little local administration as the FIG(leaf) is not interested in transparency...
No links..., no info..., no nothing...
QUESTION WAS...:
In British Occupied Malvinas Islands the government has committed itself to naturalising no more than ........* persons a year.
A) 0.00
B) 0.33
C) 40
* Please fill the dotted line with the correct figure...
Why Voice? Because the islanders did not wish to take that route and it is, after all, their choice. And not many BOTs have a belligerent and bullying neighbour. Each to their own then.
May 30th, 2017 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +4Think - the FIG do not operate a quota system. Each case taken on its merits.
Mr. Lorton...
May 30th, 2017 - 06:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Check your sources..., and revert...
@Think
May 30th, 2017 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If the government doesn't publicise it then they can hardly be said to have committed themselves to anything.
I'm not going to play guessing games, please just say what you mean.
@Roger Lorton
It's NOT their choice because they can't force the UK to agree to free association.
Mr. Demontree...
May 30th, 2017 - 09:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Ohhhh...., yes..., the FIG(leaf) have commited themselves alright...
As Mr.Lorton inadvertedly, but quite correctly wrote above..., many cases are taken on their “m
Merits.”
I won't mention names..., but recently an Engrish LGTB girl..., the loving lover of a Kelper LGTB girl whose mother is a very influential person in Puerto Estanley..., got the Whole Deluxe Belonger Monty in just a couple of months..., jumping over loads of people that have been waiting for many, many years...
Some “Merits” that girl must have...
“Think” is jealous.
May 30th, 2017 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Just like Liberato and a few others.
PMSL
@Think
May 31st, 2017 - 08:26 am - Link - Report abuse +1That sounds highly dubious - if it's true - but it's nothing at all like having a quota for naturalisation. Were you making that up then?
Outrageous! Leaping ahead just because they are English? I must write to my MP (when I'm given one to write to that is)
May 31st, 2017 - 09:13 am - Link - Report abuse -2Cmdr. McDod...
May 31st, 2017 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse -2Not outrageous at all...
That's what Engrish Colonies are...
Meritocracies... Where the finest & foremost merit is..., being Engrish...
Mr. DemonTree...
The Belonger Quota does exist...
The current yearly allowance is 40 persons...
Poor ol Think, Voice and doveoverdover must sit be sitting down to his computer 24/7, why not go out gardening or a bike ride instead of massaging your ego.Pathetic.
May 31st, 2017 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +2They (or he) do(es) it because repeating the same things in 2017 that have already been said every single year for the past several years will somehow validate them (him).
May 31st, 2017 - 02:16 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I find it all very amusing with a tinge if tragedy that trolling is the highlight of his(their) day.
I've hardly been on here for the past year and not only has Argentina again wasted an entire year with nothing to show for it.... but so have many of the same people commenting.
Huh first I've posted today....coincidently, I was out enjoying the sun in the garden after having been out riding my bike...
May 31st, 2017 - 04:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mystical...
Do you have any evidence, Think?
May 31st, 2017 - 07:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And can any of the Islanders posting here confirm or deny that there is a quota? Or know whether Think's little incident really happened?
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
May 31st, 2017 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Can any of the Kelpers posting here confirm or deny that there is a quota...?
Or know whether Think's little LGTB girls incident really happened...?
Huhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...?
(I guess them Kelpers know by now that I don't show me hand to early...)
Read and learn, especially Roger Lorton
Jun 01st, 2017 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose now this has expired off the front page I am not going to get any replies.
Jun 01st, 2017 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DO you have any kind of evidence at all, Think? Because I'm not going to believe you without it.
Mr. DemonTree...
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Call 00500-27340 and ask...
They are on Skype..., so money ain't no excuse...
Btw....:
A minuscule detail...,as an article expiring off the front page would never stop Ex Engrish Copper Mr. Lorton or Kelpers Islander1 & Jo Bloggs..., (all three of them commenting on ths article) to prove me wrong... if they could... what they can't... because they know all the above it's true...
You may believe what you fancy..., lad...
It's a free Country...
I'm not expecting any Islanders to prove anything, just to say whether it is true or not, or how they do control immigration.
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Roger Lorton
Above you said:
“Think - the FIG do not operate a quota system. Each case taken on its merits.”
Is that right? Not even an unofficial one?
@Think
Are you saying this is an official policy like in the BVI or an unofficial one? If it's official it should be published somewhere.
It's annoying that they *still* haven't published the 2016 Census data, but I did some sums based on what was available and it looks like at least 190 more people have Falklands status than in the last census in 2012. 40 per year for 4 years would have given 160 more. It's not conclusive since people who already have that status can move away or back to the islands and the data released for 2016 is only provisional, but it doesn't confirm what you're saying.
I suppose now you will claim the quota was higher in the past or only introduced last year?
............
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 05:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0....................
Chirp..., chirp..., chirp...
One can almost hear the chirping of the Malvinas crickets...
But only almost......... because them Malvinas crickets can't chirp...;-)
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