MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Public opinion forces Temer to withdraw troops from streets of Brasilia
Brazil's President Michel Temer called troops back off the streets of the capital Thursday after deploying them to guard government buildings following riots by protesters demanding he quit. A decree published online in the official journal said the president had revoked an earlier measure to deploy 1,500 federal troops -- a delicate issue in a country with living memory of a military dictatorship. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesREF: “The deployment of soldiers shocked a capital”:
May 26th, 2017 - 11:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0#1: Nobody was shocked due to the heavy damage to the public & private properties.
#2: The deployment of soldiers took place only when it was already too late.
#3: So what's the next joke?
The next joke is the fact that in 2015, the fat b*tch also employed the armed forces to protect areas in which the events of the Olympic Games were taking place, and no one batted an eyelid....it's always the same with the radical left, if it's not their idea, they must fight it,, no matter what, even if their actions are against the interests of the people...to them, it's “WE, the party, are more important than anything else.”
May 26th, 2017 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@JB
May 26th, 2017 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's a different context. Using the army against rioters/protesters is a lot more similar to the actions of the dictatorship. And the fact that things have got so bad already is not a good sign for Temer.
If he's impeached too then who is likely to get the job next?
@JB
May 27th, 2017 - 01:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Oh, yeah, and Joao Goulart was so bad too...
Give up already, Jack.
Your neoliberal heroes are so deep in the mud, the “corruption ” argument they thought so clever to depose Dilma has come back to bite them.
The whole thing uncovers the current strategy being used across South America to try and get rid of progressive governments and restore the old order.
The “they ordered photocopies and did not pay” argument has replaced the worn out mechanism of the tanks in the streets.
Time for real democracy in Latin America.
@DT
May 27th, 2017 - 10:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, I suppose you would have prefered - if you lived here - that the rioters burned a few buildings to the ground....it might be reasonable to realize that the armed forces only appeared on the scene AFTER the the police were unable to contain the destruction.....AND, that their showing up was sufficient to get the situation under control....they did not need to use any force. As to being reminiscent of the rule of the military regime, not really...in those days, any action employed by the military was directed at the small groups who insisted in trying to topple the government...through force. The military regime, and how it reacted to certain sitiuations, is a subject that is difficult to convey to anyone who did not live it, who really have no idea what it was like to be in Brazil at the time. And the fact that many people have tried to rewrite history to suit their ideology, does not help.
If Temer is kicked out, according to the Constitution - as he has no VP - the head of the Lower House in Congress takes over for 30 days, while Congress prepares to elect a new president to conclude the current presidential term. But knowing Brazil, it would not surprise me if Congress tried to change the Constitution in order to find a way out that spared them all from prosecution in the “lavajato”...that is all they are worried about....love of their country and patriotism are things they couldn't care less about.
@Reekie
Who ever mentioned João Goulart ? what are you talking about ????? So, just a simple question...ONE more, which you probably won't answer : were you living in Brazil when Jango was president (1961-64) ? Didn't think so, so why don't you cut the crap ?
Just fyi, I have no favourite criminal....no current day politician in Brazil deserves that honour...
What's your idea of 'real democracy' (for LatAm ) ? the bolivarian version ? it's sure going like a house on fire in VZ....
@JB
May 28th, 2017 - 06:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I thought the rioters did burn a few buildings to the ground? Anyway, the article said they were withdrawn because of public opinion, so presumably people were more bothered by this than by the army guarding the Olympics. Why do you think that was?
Were there no large demonstrations during the military government? Or did the police deal with them?
I suppose Congress will want to elect someone who will block and hinder the corruption investigations then? Perhaps you would be better off holding direct elections now, but you don't yet know who is guilty of what so it would be hard to know who to vote for.
@EM
Do you really think there is no corruption in Brazil, or that the PT, unlike all the other parties, was not involved? You think the various scandals - lavajato and mensalão - never happened, and the investigations were started solely to discredit Lula and Dilma? That no one stole billions of dollars from the state? (Those are some mighty expensive photocopies!) And that not one of the judges, journalists etc involved is motivated by getting rid of the corruption, rather than by getting rid of the PT?
@DT
May 29th, 2017 - 12:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0The rioters only managed to destroy and set fire to some parts of the ground floors of several Ministry buildings, before they scattered when they saw the armed forces...
The public opinion, well understood, was limited to groups of human rights (ideologically left and always 'ready' to defend the bad guys) and the more radical (leftist) politicians....what feedback would they have managed to obtain from a significant portion of the “public”, overnight, if the measure was revoked next morning ? as usual, it's the rowdy voices of the extremists that are heard....the silent majority is, well, just that...and they ALSO form part of the 'public'.
Demonstrations took place before the military took over, in protest against Jango's government....during the 21 years, not really, except for when their rule was nearing the end, and demonstrations were held to demand free elections,,,,by then, the military had already had enough, and did not try to stop them..
Congress is, and always has been the problem....they are only interested in solving their OWN problems.....and they will try ANYTHING - if it'll pass - to do it.
About direct elections, you're right.....with at least half of Congress denounced in dozens of crimes, and the more notorious politicians on their way to being convicted, who's left ?
Reekie probably believes that the USA's moon landing was a fake...what does he know ?
@JB
May 29th, 2017 - 10:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, it's good that they were stopped then. Who are these human rights groups and politicians who supposedly have so much influence in Brazil?
I'm not sure I believe in this silent majority though, most people are silent at any given time, but that doesn't mean they all agree with each other. Although Brazilians do seem to be unusually willing to forgive and forget. What was so bad about Jango anyway?
But to fix your congress, it's not just a few bad people, it seems it's the system that is the problem, so you need to fix that. Er, good luck.
Os corruptos devem aproveitar último mandato:
May 30th, 2017 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.voaportugues.com/a/brasil-esta-sangrando-/3876028.html
@DT
May 30th, 2017 - 05:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The human right activists are formed by extremely liberal groups - who believe that “by loving thy neighbour, they'll love you back”, influenced and backed by the leftovers of the far-left who were trying to topple the government back in the early 60's...the brazilians have the (bad) habit of - as you well said, being too willing to forgive and to forget - or just a 'short memory' - until it happens to them...or someone close to them...it is a notorious fact that after a criminal is arrested (wanted for murder, rape, kidnapping or robbery), the first on the scene to guarantee their rights and their physical integrity, are ...the human rights people....the victims ? well, forget them, they're either dead or still alive, so what have they got to complain about ?
As to rowdy minorities v. the silent majority, it is obvious which you hear more of.....if someone feels strongly enough about something, they'll eventually react...as to the rowdy minorities, it is not uncommon that they are being instigated and paid by some group that does not want to expose themselves...otherwise it'd remove the legitimacy of their protests, that is, of the “people” who are complaining...That is what we see today, the unions inflaming the ignorant, making them think that they are the victims, when in reality the unions are just trying to defend their own (immoral) privileges.
Jango was a supporter of the extreme left, and was courting the USSR....something which did not go down too well with the working population, or with the military.
The problem with Congress is not so much the system, but the people in it, who have turned it into a corrupt bargaining counter.
Possible, ALWAYS:
May 31st, 2017 - 12:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: https://scontent.fplu4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10991319_379797535536216_672821332122172058_n.jpg?oh=090b454c8c4b9941e69cfb25a6d4a080&oe=59A6E52B
@:o))
May 31st, 2017 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“calça nova ?” boa....é por aí...
Regardinding your link in the thread “Chaos in Brazil..”, it is no surprise Lula's popularity is the highest in the northeast and is lowest in the south and southeast....just a matter of level of education.....from which one concludes, Lula's followers are ignorant and he would not survive an educated population.
The Need for Political and Social Reform: https://www.forbes.com/sites/arthurmachado/2017/05/02/brazil-in-catharsis/#2f436cf77307
Jun 01st, 2017 - 12:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0@JB
Jun 01st, 2017 - 12:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The human rights people are always first on the scene after an arrest? Don't you have lawyers in Brazil? Also there must be a small army of these people, it's a wonder the police manage to kill so many suspects. Where do they get their money from to do all this?
Do you think everyone who doesn't go out and protest thinks the same thing, though? I daresay some agree with various protests even if they don't go on them, and others disagree but don't do anything about it.
Google says this Jango was Vice President and took over when the President resigned, so his position was similar to Temer's in some ways. Both were from a different party to the president they were elected with which gave them less legitimacy when they gained power. Really this doesn't seem like a good idea at all, the Vice President should be someone who will broadly continue the policies of the President they were elected with.
And I think if all the people in Congress have turned corrupt then you can't blame the people, but the system or the culture that allows and encourages corruption. To prevent it happening again you at least need a lot more oversight, but probably other changes as well. Are there limits on how much money can be spent campaigning for office?
The Human Rights Advocates are very well paid by being on the payrolls of the crime syndicates. Their foremost responsibility is to protect the crooks/bandits at ALL costs. In Brazil - for example - one may end-up on jail for using excessive force [!], if you react in self-defence, to protect yourself, your family and your property. THANX to the Human Rights Advocates!
Jun 01st, 2017 - 03:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0These advocates, the crime syndicates, the politicians, the police-force, the churches [yes; the churches - the BEST places for money laundering], banks, bureaucrats, the private money changers, etc, etc. are well-connected, able & willing and are in hand-in-glove to “HELP” each other.
NO End in site - will THIS ever END?
:http://plus55.com/brazil-politics/2017/06/operation-car-wash-two-investigations : No Need to hallucinate - MANY things will NEVER change in Brazil!
@DT
Jun 01st, 2017 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure we have lawyers, too many of them in fact, and plenty of them are ambulance chasers…but the human rights activists MUST stay in the spotlight to justify their existence…the problem is that they are ONLY concerned with the lowlife criminals (not ‘white-collar, well understood), that the police might slap about…If you think the police kill a lot (and when thet do, mainly in confrontations), it’s because you have no idea how many innocent people and cops are killed by drug gangs, and other criminals. But they only appear when it’s to ‘protect’ a criminal.
”Do you think everyone who doesn't go out and protest thinks the same thing ?”
Of course not, but their views tend to converge on many issues, and usually when it's against anything that is radical or tends to get out of hand…they may not go to demonstrations but that does not mean they are in favour of riots and destroying public/private property…which is a constant in every protest staged by the unions, PT, etc…
I agree it would be desirable for the presidential candidate and the VP to be from the same party, so that when you vote you know (supposedly) what you are getting…..but in a political system where there are 32 parties in Congress, and another 70 waiting to be registered, who can govern (if they are honest) without making deals with the devil ?
There used to be NO limits on campaign funds…which encouraged legal and illegal donations, the latter many times bribe money. Now, there is a Party Fund (public money) of about R$ 1 billion, which feeds the parties (many times misspent) and limited donations from individuals…no corporate funding allowed...that is, 'legally', of course…
You can see that the opinion of ':o))' is much the same...
The problem here is the generalized lack of education of the people, the comparatively relatively low-standard of public schooling (in comparison to the private), which enables unscrupulous politicians to take advantage of the ignorant masses.
@ :o))
Jun 01st, 2017 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You make them sound even more like lawyers!
And you can go to jail in the UK for using excessive force too, there was a famous case where a farmer was jailed for 5 years for shooting dead a teenage burglar after multiple break-ins at his home.
@JB
Your police DO kill a lot. In 2016 in the UK 4 people were shot dead by the police, but probably that's not a good comparison. In the US with 1.5x the population of Brazil they shot and killed nearly 1,000. In Brazil they killed 3,345 in 2015 and in Rio de Janeiro police are responsible for 1 in every 5 killings, in São Paulo 1 in 4. So I am not surprised human rights groups are worried, although they are also concerned with the huge number of murders and violence in general, which is no doubt one of the major reasons for the police killing so often. But I don't believe the groups I am thinking of really get involved with individual cases, at least not until later, so I'm still what sure what kind of people you are referring to.
I know the latest protests ended in riots and destruction but I've seen plenty of others reported with no mention of riots, so it can't really be a general feature. And maybe the number of parties is one of the things that needs reforming? Other countries manage with just a handful so it should be possible for Brazil, it means there is a bigger variety of views within one party but they can still agree on a manifesto. It would also save on the money spent campaigning, at least in theory.
Limits on campaign funds should help, as long as they are actually enforced so candidates aren't spending bribe money. I suppose it's putting things into practice that is the problem in Brazil, even if they are a good idea in theory. And I agree better education would be a really good thing, it's a shame the PT didn't do more for this when they were in power.
DT:
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 01:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0Shooting a teenaged small-time burglar in the back; certainly is the use of an excessive force. But defending a family, property & yourself against a Group of Hard-Boiled Violent Criminals with Police-Records; is not exactly the “Use of Excessive Force”. Try convincing THIS, to a Brazilian Advocate.
@ :o))
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 09:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0You've heard of the case then? I wasn't expecting that. Do you have any examples from Brazil?
Just visit Brazil - ANY of the favelas of YOUR choice and THEN ask the Brazilians about the Law & Order Situation. They'll confirm that for the Hard-Boiled Criminals [members of the Criminal-Factions]:
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0- Crime PAYS [even the government pays]
- The prisoners' families receive financial support whereas, their victims don't receive NOTHING, not even sympathy
- They receive FREE healthcare
- They are not obliged to “Pay Back” to the society
- They enjoy “Intimacy-Visits” [officially]
- They enjoy the use of phones/mobiles [unofficially]
- etc, etc, many other benefits - so many, that they PREFER to spend time in the prison once in a while.
@DT
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn’t say they don’t…but obviously more than in ‘civilized’ countries, but in my opinion, there’s an explanation for it : today, criminals and organized crime don’t respect the police at all, and more often than not, will take them on, in any situation…so most police killings are the result of confrontations…but of course, the cases that make headlines, are usually those in which the police kill an innocent ‘suspect’, or even a criminal, without giving them a fair chance to surrender ; better trained cops would be less prone to shoot first and ask questions later ; anyway, human-rights, and the press, tend to publicize these cases far more, mostly ignoring those in which cops are killed, even when murdered off duty, which reinforces the image that cops are always the villains. Half the time on newsreels is dedicated to crime : cargo theft (dozens per day), blowing up ATM’s (2 or 3 p/ week), exploding security company installations to steal millions (this year, 3 so far), massacres committed by rival gangs (2 or 3 p/ month, killing dozens), shoot outs between drug dealers and police (every day), hold-ups in traffic, in shopping centres, in crowded commercial streets (several, every day), lightning-kidnappings (several per week), car-jackings and car theft (dozens per day)…so you get the idea what the police are up against, which greatly increases the probability of deaths.
Recently, don’t recall even one demonstration sponsored by the PT/ unions, that did not end up badly…they always claim that vandals who infiltrate themselves, are responsible…unlikely, as in protests against the PT this has not happened. Just the mention of reducing the nbr of political parties is sufficient for the small, more radical leftist parties (and PT), to protest vehemently…they would lose their participation in the party fund, their free time on TV, immoral privileges…so it’s not so easy.
Most good projects get so disfigured in Congress, you wouldn't recognize them.
Jack Bauer aka Proof less & Truth less
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the far-left who were trying to topple the government back in the early 60’s”. There was only a guerrilla movement three years after the military coup.
“Your insistence that I'm a fascist, your notion that Jango wasn't sucking up to the USSR”
You support a dictatorship, that’s what such people are called. It’s not my notion, but the fact that the record shows you’ve lied as to the cause of the dictatorship. As there was never an insurrection or any conspiracy of one that preceded the dictatorship. Goulart followed a foreign policy of neutrality in an endeavour to give offence to no one. For which the US engineered coup, just like they had interfered in many countries in Americas in a similar fashion. Thats how they conducted their policy at that time. Roosevelt typically referred to such a dictator. “Somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasio_Somoza_García
REF: Law & Order Situation:
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The crime is so well organized; you will notice that:
#1: The government hardly orders the armed forces to capture the Drug-Lords & their gangs
#2: If at all the government does order; the armed forces return empty-handed!
WHY DO YOU THINK?
@JB
Jun 02nd, 2017 - 11:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, it's obvious there are reasons the police kill so much, starting with the sheer amount of violence in Brazil. I don't think the police are villains (mostly), I think they are being asked to deal with a situation that is beyond their ability to control. It would help if they had better training and support, but still you probably need to deal with the crime wave from an economic and social angle rather than just police and prisons. Plus it's likely some of the police have followed the example of their leaders and become corrupt, so they need to be dealt with too.
I've never understood why people get violent at protests, it's always counterproductive, but I suppose whoever organises them can easily lose control of their supporters, or get hijacked by more hard line factions.
How many parties are there on the left vs the right, and how many of the people in government belong to these tiny parties anyway?
@DT
Jun 03rd, 2017 - 09:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The disproportionate number of people who resort to violent crime in Brazil make numbers in other countries pale by comparison. Reason ? millions of people living in sub-human conditions (according to the standards in more advanced societies), as in most 'favelas', and the temptation to turn to crime, rather than to study and try to get a decent job, is bigger. The fact that the great majority of Brazilians are in the lower middle-class, and many in poverty, does not help...their outlook on life is somewhat bleak, but their criativity to break the law is unlimited.
The PT are supported by all the so-called 'social-movements' (MST, MTST) and unions, many of which are unreasonable in their demands, are frustrated, are impatient, are easily stirred up, which is not surpring considering their low level of education...okay, many times the 'blac-blocs' (don't know if such a denomination exists elsewhere), a group of vandals, whose only objective is to destroy public/private property, do infiltrate, and are the 'main' disruptors' of law & order, but in the protests against the PT, in the few times they have tried to derail the legitimacy of the protest, they have been expelled by the actual protestors and /or police . The unions and the PT, seem to welcome their presence, and then blame them. The pattern is clear.
Of the 32 parties, not sure what they all stand for, but an educated guess would be that there are about half a dozen (amongst the bigger ones), that are centre-moderate left, about the same number (including the PT, PC do B, PSOL, PSD, PDT) who are more to the left , and have radical 'left' factions in their ranks, there is ONE, (PSC) which can be considered centre-right, and the rest , about 20, are small parties which 'float' around, giving their support to the highest bidder...they have no particular ideology, just an uncommon hunger for money. They are parasites and are known as the 'parties for hire'.
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