MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Hung parliament in UK; Theresa May calls for stability; Corbyn says PM must go
Britain's Conservatives have lost their majority in a snap general that has resulted in a hung parliament. With just a handful of seats left to declare, Thursday polls shows gains for the opposition Labour Party. This is seen as a humiliation for PM Minister Theresa May, who chose to call the election to try to strengthen her hand in talks with the EU on Brexit. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesO dear Theresa. You didn't do a very good job as PM did you. And you have failed to throw that 'Scotch thing' in the bin too, SNP still the majority in Scotland. Roll on Indyref2.
Jun 09th, 2017 - 09:50 am - Link - Report abuse -5TWIMC
Jun 09th, 2017 - 10:08 am - Link - Report abuse -6Geeeeeeee....
Were are them Anglo Turnips now...
Those who constantly lecture us, Dagos...
About the “Undemocratic Presence” of police at our polling stations during our elections...?
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/ishZyTZ6MUlg/v0/2200x-1.jpg
Hubris..., anyone...?
I think Putin should roll the tanks in, bring back some order to the chaos in that island.
Jun 09th, 2017 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse -6Could things get any worse for the UK...?
Jun 09th, 2017 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse -5Yes...BoJo for PM betting odds at 2/1...
TWIMC
Jun 09th, 2017 - 10:28 am - Link - Report abuse -5Thank you Engeland for Monty Python...!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SZxZlSZrPeQ
Chuckle..., chuckle..., chuck...
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/06/tories-leap-unpopularity-abyss/
Jun 09th, 2017 - 10:56 am - Link - Report abuse -5TWIMC
Jun 09th, 2017 - 11:02 am - Link - Report abuse -5“The official Conservative party spokesman, Laura Kuenssberg, has just announced that Theresa May will remain as Prime Minister, supported by the Democratic Unionist Party in Northern Ireland. ”
Does it surprise anybody...?
They are Tories...
With the DUP May can form a government, but how long can she last now? BoJo for PM, ugh. Who knows what it'll do to the Brexit negotiations, May must be kicking herself for calling this completely unnecessary election.
Jun 09th, 2017 - 11:36 am - Link - Report abuse -1Scotland is a different story, the Tories have gone from 1 seat to 13, and mainly due to one issue... if the SNP hadn't pushed so hard for indyref2, a Tory minority government would be looking a lot less likely right now. Thanks a lot, guys.
The SNP lost 21 seats, that's a lot more than the Tories' 12, and anything but an endorsement of their plans. Nicola Sturgeon said she wasn't going to make any rash decisions, so we'll have to wait and see.
TWIMC
Jun 09th, 2017 - 11:56 am - Link - Report abuse -4Geeeeeeee....
Were are them Anglo Turnips now...
Those who constantly lecture us, Argie Dagos...
About our “Dangerous Quebracho” activist group..., burning tires a waving wooden sticks...
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/inside-the-uvf-money-murders-and-mayhem-the-loyalist-gangs-secrets-unveiled-30659663.html
Hubris..., anyone...?
The tide is turning around, helped by an uninspiring leader who thought being smart. This is an opportunity for the U.K. to reverse the disastrous Brexit decision and give the Tories a deserved long-term holiday.
Jun 09th, 2017 - 12:02 pm - Link - Report abuse -4TWIMC
Jun 09th, 2017 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -5Geeeeeeee....
Were are them Anglo Turnips now...
Those who lecture us, Argie Dagos about everything...
I think I found them...! Yes..., I found them...! Found them...:
http://en.mercopress.com/2017/06/08/why-many-argentines-continue-to-support-corrupt-cristina-fernandez/comments#comment467863
Hubris... Anyone...?
About our “Dangerous Quebracho” activist group..., burning tires a waving wooden sticks...
Is it just me or are all the usual antiargie keyboard warriors AWL?
Jun 09th, 2017 - 12:43 pm - Link - Report abuse -6Tobias...
Jun 09th, 2017 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -4;-)))
Austrol
Jun 09th, 2017 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse +2It's just you.
Everybody is waiting for you and Think and his various personas to get over your hysterical reaction to a normal democratic process - something, of course, that is rare in Argruntina.
Wow the Tories had a net loss of 12 seats - armageddon.
A coalition government - another wow - must be only country in the world to have a coalition government - no wait...
Escos - I have to admit to being surprised that the Tories gained so many seats from the SNP - I would have thought that if anything they would have lost seats to Labour but then I haven't had the luxury of being able to check where and why the SNP lost the seats that they did. Perhaps you have more info on this??
Do you think this increases the chances of a second Independence referendum or is the swing away from the SNP saying no more? I'd appreciate your opinion.
ROFLMAO...,
Jun 09th, 2017 - 01:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -3A DUP government...?
The Engrish governed by10 Paddies...!
That will surely give them Engrish a lot of “Stability”...
I THINK some 65,000,000 Brits are being soundly DUPED...!
Think
Jun 09th, 2017 - 01:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +2It's called 'democracy' - I know you probably don't know what it means - but get one of your elves to look it up,
We've discussed the use of the word 'paddies' before - don't look now but your racist attitudes are showing.
Geeeeee.....
Jun 09th, 2017 - 02:12 pm - Link - Report abuse -4What a wee delicate Shamrock ...
Objects the use of a mild nick for a Mik...
But feels comfortabe with 10 Paddy Terror Organization offsprings running his Neighbour Country...
BTW..., wasn't Mr. 18 democratically elected too...?
We must go easy on Reekie, the Argentine refuge, who knows nothing of the state of country, as opposed to us who live here.
Jun 09th, 2017 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The poor dolt must endure that Argentina had a May inflation of a miserly 1.3 percent, so go easy on him.
It was those mad cow burgers that done it. Selwyn's son comes up with a dementia tax designed to rob the young of their rightful inheritance and steal from the aged what it took a lifetime to build up - double whammy!
Jun 09th, 2017 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +1My Scotch pals were correct, Sturgeon kicked in the gob and Salmond and Robertson booted out. A fate that was richly deserved. Indyref is now just a wet dream.
Pass the popcorn...:-)))
Jun 09th, 2017 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -3http://www.anglenews.com/dup-wikipedia-page-locked-to-stop-people-pointing-out-the-party-doesnt-believe-in-dinosaurs/
Wonderful, they're even nuttier than I thought. Exactly the sort of people we want in government.
Jun 09th, 2017 - 03:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well...
Jun 09th, 2017 - 03:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Those are exactly the sort of people I want in your government to get the “Best Deal” for NI and fckuck the rest of the UK...
On a couple of years..., our man Corbyn will have to pick the pieces and talk to us Latinos in a civilized way...
Think, horsemeat dealer now resident in Brook Street a Latino! Bahahahaha!!!
Jun 09th, 2017 - 03:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +2We did talk to you in a civilised way and you sent your army to lock up the folk in Goose Green and shit in the post office.
Have you been eating mad cow burgers by any chance?
TWIMC...
Jun 09th, 2017 - 04:05 pm - Link - Report abuse -4http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/09/pound-has-rocky-night-shock-election-result-sees-markets-looking/
Not to speak about them Engrish Pirate Oil Adventure in the South Atlantic shares...
Both dropped a whopping 6% in value sincd yesterday ...
Mayday..., Mayday... ;-)))
Good luck dear England :-)))))))))))))
Jun 09th, 2017 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Yeap, that Randazzo fellow, what a nuissance
Jun 09th, 2017 - 04:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0When the £ suffers my share portfolio benefits.
Jun 09th, 2017 - 04:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Another Latino dumbass doesn't know the difference between England, Britain, and the UK. Calgary is a place populated by dumbkopfs to go right through on your way to beautiful BC. Even Kamloops is more exciting!
Horsemeat is falling too...
You trolls know nothing!
Jun 09th, 2017 - 04:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +4UK elections - we have a Conservative government which carries the endorsement of our Head of State. Service as usual - maybe not to the liking of all of us but c'est la vie!
Democracy has prevailed as is our tradition! Tally ho!
Corbyn y Perón, un solo corazón!
Jun 09th, 2017 - 04:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Darragh
Jun 09th, 2017 - 05:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +2“Do you think this increases the chances of a second Independence referendum or is the swing away from the SNP saying no more? I'd appreciate your opinion.”
Why bother asking that part timer...he is so out of touch with the trends in Scotland that he never saw this loss (which I predicted months ago) coming...
He posts from God knows where he resides without a clue...in fact the whole of the area where he comes from voted Tory...how could he not see that...simple... he's not here...
Geeeeeeeee.......
Jun 09th, 2017 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -1This young guy is soooo right...
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/wahl-in-grossbritannien/wie-geht-es-weiter-in-grossbritannien-may-wird-keine-ganze-legislaturperiode-durchstehen-15054389.html
Aw poor Think, Trollied and the others actually think that Corbyn somehow won. Yes he did better than expected but he still lost.
Jun 09th, 2017 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +3I know you were all having wet dreams believing that he would hand over the Falklands to you on a platter, but its not to be.
The Conservatives have formed a coalition with the DUP which makes them the largest party ipso facto the Government of the UK.
Even if Corbyn had allied with the SNP, Liberals, and the other independents (sans the DUP, as they'd never support the terrorist loving Corbyn), assuming they agreed to join a coalition with him, he would still be short of an overall majority, which still makes him a loser.
The SNP were also losers. They lost seats to the Conservatives! The Conservatives haven't really won much in Scotland since the 1980's, which goes to show just how fed up the Scottish are with Sturgeon and her one track mind.
In the last general election the people of Scotland gave the SNP the chance to show that they were more than a one trick pony, and that they could government sensibly. But all their MPs did was NOTHING at Westminster, and all their MSP's did in Scotland is destroy the education system, the NHS, the Police whilst at the same time raising taxes.
So the SNP have shown that they aren't good enough to govern a devolved Parliament, when they have a safety net of the rest of the UK, which means the Scottish people realise just how right they were in voting against independence. The SNP would've just bankrupted them.
Some more facts about the DUP:
Jun 09th, 2017 - 11:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -4”The DUP are pro-union (not Europe but UK), pro-Brexit and socially conservative.
The party opposes same-sex marriage and is anti-abortion - abortion remains illegal in Northern Ireland, except in specific medical cases.
One MP is a devout climate change denier, while a former MP once called for creationism - the belief that human life did not evolve over millions of years but was created by God - to be taught alongside evolution in science classes.
During the election campaign, the DUP's Emma Little-Pengelly was endorsed by the three biggest loyalist paramilitary organisations.”
So they are a lot like the US Republican party, but with more links to terrorists. And they are currently not even in government in Stormont because the power sharing agreement collapsed due to them screwing up a scheme to encourage use of renewable heat sources, wasting £490m of taxpayers money. Now they are involved in two sets of coalition talks at once.
And they will prop up the Conservatives - for a price. NI is going to be getting a lot of shiny new infrastructure that we can't afford, and they also want the EU funding replaced and lower taxes, with the UK treasury picking up the bill. How long will Tory MPs be willing to put up with them?
Living in Tory heartland and being away in Reekieland I didn't vote. Labour usually lose their deposit there but this time they got 11,000 votes!
Jun 10th, 2017 - 01:05 am - Link - Report abuse +1C'MON Voicey, DT, Elaine fess up who you voted for?
The question is why is this piece appearing in Mercopenguin, a propaganda organ supposedly devoted to America, South America and the “South Atlantic”?
Jun 10th, 2017 - 01:57 am - Link - Report abuse -4Because we get tired of putting down serial idiots like you it's boring... and we have a need to focus on something interesting and important.
Jun 10th, 2017 - 03:15 am - Link - Report abuse +2I suppose it is because “ nothing of note ” is happening in South America, anyway the “ South Atlantic ” is a sea and can't read or write, hence NO NEWS.
Jun 10th, 2017 - 08:19 am - Link - Report abuse +1The Voice
Jun 10th, 2017 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse +2I don't mind telling you how I voted...
I was pretty much snookered with how I could vote knowing the lay of the land for my area...
Leaving me only tactical voting against the SNP, I had to vote LibDem as they were the next strongest party for this SNP stronghold...
If I had thought the Tories had any chance I would have supported them to give the Govt the strongest possible position to deal with Brexit, but judging by the rUK obvious support for a softer Brexit to ease all the economic turmoil...I might have been wrong...
Perhaps the result has sent a message to the Govt to change their approach...
Although I reckon, with the arrogance we have witnessed recently, they will just dump May and call another election in the not too distant future...
Mr. Voice...
Jun 10th, 2017 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse -3You say...:
“With the arrogance we have witnessed recently, they will just dump May and call another election in the not too distant future...”
I say...:
Well... That's pretty much the core opinion of ze German guy I linked above...
Are you German....?
;-)
All the media pressure could not prevent Corbyn from making a very decent election--that is the real meaning of May's monumental blunder.
Jun 10th, 2017 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse -2Corbyn lost. Even with May's disastrous campaign Corbyn was 56 seat behind May and had a smaller percentage of the vote. It is not a win by any description, it is a monumental loss.
Jun 10th, 2017 - 03:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What Corbyn did was bribe the young voters with promises of wiping out student debt which he failed to explain how he could afford to do so. May should have made some consideration to connecting with the young students who are our most aspirational voters, and once they shake off their student-socialism phase, will likely prefer Conservative policies; she didn't. Corbyn did not run a great campaign but one based on false promises. May ran a worse one by ignoring huge sectors of the voting public but she still won by a long way.
I think one of the most interesting developments of the result is how many UKIP votes went to Labour, not Conservatives. It seems the UKIP voters were not right-wing fascists but left-wing fascists.
There is no coalition government. The DUP want to a conservative government as it is more aligned with their views so have an interest to back them. That's all.
Clearly Corbyn said he was going to soak the rich (£80,000 + income) and go for 26% corporation tax. Then there is the Land Tax which would hit the super rich hard because they are a all buying up farmland so it can be passed to heirs tax free. Some 'experts' said his sums didn't add up. The rich are usually good at avoiding paying tax. I would also imagine that there would be a grab at those of us supplementing pensions with dividends even those who hold equities inside ISAs.
Jun 10th, 2017 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There were clearly a lot of attractive policies for the young and no hint of any reduction in old people's incomes or benefits.
May got it totally wrong. Grammar Schools! Fox hunting vote! Treat dementia as an excuse to rob the old and rob the young of their inheritance simultaneously?
She has proved to be a myopic idiot and should go sooner rather than later.
May will go by the Autumn if not sooner but Brexit talks start in a week so now is not the time for a leadership contest. Unless the Murdoch press insist on it, of course.
Jun 10th, 2017 - 06:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Interesting that no one is asking loser Corbyn to resign. If, say, Yvette Cooper had led the Labour Party to a 56 seat loss do you think it would be called a win? I doubt it. They would tell her to step aside and let someone who can lead the party to victory take over, preferably male.
I didn't like TM's policies and her campaign was a disaster. The Torys were arrogant and misled by advisors. Neither did I like the La La Land false promises of JC's campaign. The Labour Party didn't bother to cost an economic plan because they knew they would lose and not have to deliver. None of this behaviour is good for the country.
I missed a lot of the early campaigning as I was abroad but returned to some appalling nasty behaviour all round. In particular the disgusting language used about women politicians has no place in campaigning. I condemn the negative comments on both sides. People think Corbyn had a hard time? Nonsense. Look at the language use against Diane Abbott or Ruth Davidson or Theresa May. Attacking people for their politics is part of the process, comparing women to whores and saying they need raping because you don't agree with them is outrageous. This is something that has to be tackled in future campaigns.
@EB
Jun 10th, 2017 - 08:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -2I didn't know you thought UKIP voters were all fascists. But we know working class people were more likely to vote for Brexit so it's not too surprising some Labour voters would have switched to UKIP, and switched back now they have got what they want.
It's interesting that this is being seen as somewhat of a win for Corbyn. It is an impressive achievement to come from 25 points behind to 2.4 in only 6 weeks, and with much of his own party and most of the press against him, and he's succeeded in denying May her majority. Now he's shown his MPs that he's not poison at the polling booth, they are likely to unite behind him so I think his leadership is safe.
As for 'bribing' young voters, how is it any different from promising OAPs a triple lock on their pensions, or promising to remove the 50% tax band for high earners? Young voters have been ignored by the major parties for far too long, and it's partly their own fault for not voting, but there were never any options they found inspiring. It's good that Corbyn has got them out, and hopefully they will stay engaged.
Also people do not inevitably become Tories once past the 'student socialism stage'. Plenty of graduates vote for Labour or the Lib Dems or the SNP in Scotland, and plenty have switched to Labour this time due to Brexit. 40% voted for Labour so Corbyn's appeal is not just to students.
I hope the Tories get the message that a majority do not support their austerity policies or a hard Brexit.
I haven't seen the nasty behaviour you mentioned, but that is vile. I think it's connected to
the rise in xenophobia we have seen, being able to 'get away' with that more has encouraged people to express their other obnoxious beliefs openly.
@TV
I am glad you have come to share my low opinion of May, even if it took you a while. :D
@ DT
Jun 10th, 2017 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse +1“I didn't know you thought UKIP voters were all fascists.” I was referring to the sentiments on here during previous discussion about Brexit. I am not sure if you were around then.
There is a difference between offering something and then giving it, and offering something without having an idea how to pay for it; it was never going to happen.
“people do not inevitably become Tories once past the 'student socialism stage'.” Not necessarily Torys but aspirational people who make something of their lives are less inclined to want to share it equally with people who don't. 'We should all be equal and share everything' has been the mantra of a large number of students for decades because they don't have very much to share. Students are idealistic and rightly so because it is their role to challenge the status quo. Once they join the workforce they become more realistic. But that aside, we are essentially a capitalist country and to get the majority to change to Corbyn's Marxist dream is a fool's errand.
I completely agree with your remarks about some voting being the Remainer's revenge (though Corbyn made it clear he would go ahead with Brexit) and also that May's proposed unnecessarily harsh cuts to social welfare do not sit well with the majority who believe we should take care of the disadvantaged in society.
What is clear is that the Torys have no idea how to engage with social media. It is a powerful tool in elections now. The downside is the unrelenting false information that is peddled and nasty behaviour that is completely unmoderated.
October 2017...
Jun 10th, 2017 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -2The leaders of the Angloshpere...
http://www.themalcontent.rocks/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/blondAmbition-1160x665.png
Chuckle..., chuckle...
@EB
Jun 10th, 2017 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They were planning to raise taxes to pay for much of the spending, moreover students in Scotland pay no fees today so is hardly impossible. Personally I am in favour of a graduate tax, it would mean people pay for their own education rather than their parents paying, but they don't start their life with a debt hanging over them and high earners do not pay less for their education than low earners.
“aspirational people who make something of their lives are less inclined to want to share it equally with people who don't.”
You are arguing against a straw man, no party in the UK wants to share everything equally. I agree students become more realistic but there is nothing unrealistic about the sort of policies implemented in other (more successful) European countries. Other countries' railways are at least partially state owned, and they are markedly better. Hell, some of ours are state owned, by other states. We should do what works not what ideology tells us, whether that is capitalist or socialist.
You said before than Corbyn had no chance of gaining support, yet he vastly increased Labour's share of the vote on Thursday. Obviously his ideas are not nearly so unpopular as you suppose. I know my wealthier friends are not more right-wing than the poorer ones, sometimes the reverse. They feel they can more easily spare the money to improve the state of the country.
As for Brexit, we have to go ahead with it, the question is what sort of Brexit we should be aiming for. I want someone who will put the economy and the good of the whole country first rather than pandering to the xenophobic portion of the Brexiters and ignoring all other voices. I also think it was a mistake for the Tories to elect a Remain supporter as PM, I think paradoxically a Leave campaigner would have a freer hand as the paranoid element would be more inclined to trust them, and most of the Leave campaigners probably had at least some kind of vision of how the UK would survive outside the EU.
DT I always reserve my judgement of everyone and take people as I find them, even Trump. May has had her chance and blown it although her intentions were honourable but just wrong. Same with Boris who has repeatedly shown very bad judgement. That leaves David David who in the past has had dodgy attitudes to security and privacy and there are voices mentioning Ruth Davidson too....?
Jun 11th, 2017 - 12:54 am - Link - Report abuse +3My opinion hasn't changed on Corbyn because he hasn't changed. We don't want Britain run by the union's again it was disastrous.
We should simply be negotiating for free trade with the EU whilst controlling our borders for work permits, reciprocal rights for EU nationals and Brits living in the EU, no financial contribution to EU coffers, and free to make all our own laws other than those regulating free trade.
@ DT
Jun 11th, 2017 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0So what you are saying is the JAMs have to foot the bill again. I think people misunderstand the fees for university education. The most financially disadvantaged don't pay at all. And paying back the cost only happens when wages hit a certain level. Look it up. TAX is our money to be spent and the majority don't want it to be spent on anyone and everyone who decides to spend 3 or 4 years in further education, having had a free education to 18. At that point people are adults and perfectly well prepared to work to support themselves. They make the choice to further their education or not. If people are not prepared to invest in their own future, I don't think other people should carry the burden. (Though I support business funding places).
What is clear is that Corbyn plans to plunder anyone and anywhere he sees a bit of money. This is straight out of the populist playbook to gain and stay in power. Of course, in time the money always runs out and there was nothing left to steal. It does not improve the lives of the poorest in society in the long-term, it just creates more poor.
As for Corbyn's popularity, I think you are now discounting the Remainer revenge vote. His ideas may be popular with some - though he never costed out his airy-fairy promises. When people paying for it realised the costs it may not have been so popular. That aside, MORE voters didn't like his ideas and that is the democratic result.
Personally, I look beyond the characters and look at the policies. Take away the amiable old uncle looking Corbyn and his policies are not as attractive to people who work hard and already carry a huge burden of TAX. Meantime, May seemed to want to leave old people at the side of the road in their time of need. They are both too extreme in their policies for the majority. Though, the Tory's did get the majority of both seats and votes, so that is the immediate future for us to deal with.
Brexit is a whole other post.
Corbyn says Labour ready to Govern, I guess he went to the same school as Jabbott the Hut. If the Tories are shaky on 318 he is definitely vibrating on 262. To form a government he would need the DUP to join him.as well as everyone else.
Jun 11th, 2017 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ Capt Rockhopper
Jun 11th, 2017 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0Actually DUP are probably closer in politics to Corbyn. They have huge working class and underprivileged supporters. That said, I doubt they are going to back a person who couldn't even beat May's disastrous campaign.
@EB
Jun 11th, 2017 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Only if you are talking about the 'just about managing' on £80k per year. And perhaps you should look it up; ALL students have to pay fees of £9250 per year in England, and all can take out loans to do so.
My view is that having an educated population benefits both society and the people themselves, therefore it is reasonable that both contribute. But this only works if there are opportunities available for graduates, which has been neglected in the rush to get more people into higher education.
I think you have got your 'look beyond the characters' completely backwards. Before the election the press was having fun pointing and laughing at Corbyn, and May was reasonably well regarded. After both published their policies, Labour shot up and the Tories' popularity fell. People are tired of austerity and the painfully slow recovery from the Great Recession, they are tired of spending years just about managing - or not - after seeing rich bankers bailed out and ordinary people left to struggle. Corbyn's policies may not be exactly what people want, but at least he wants to try something different and help the majority. His biggest problem is that people don't think he would make a good Prime Minister, which I agree with.
@TV
Ruth Davidson is being mentioned for the future and has certainly done well for the Tories in Scotland, but she couldn't become PM now even if she wanted to - she's an MSP not an MP.
I think she'd be a hell of a lot better than May though, judging by this quote:
She said it was tempting to celebrate Labour’s political demise but this reaction would be “utterly wrong” as it has left millions of voters across the UK feeling “disenfranchised.”
Instead, she argued the Conservatives have a duty to show them they understand their concerns and are acting with their interests at heart, but not as part of a “cynical electoral tactic.”
Labour's demise may have been greatly exaggerated, but the same sentiment should apply to Remainers.
@DT
Jun 11th, 2017 - 12:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We do have a well educated population with free education until 18. They are then adults and well-able to decide if they wish to work, continue to further education or do both at the same time. Some of us did Masters degrees whilst working full-time in demanding jobs. There is also the option of O.U. (much cheaper too).
Several issues you are over-looking:
There is a whole industry built up around getting students into university. The educational businesses want the cash (from students or tax-payers), the landlords want the cash from accommodations, the bars want the cash from students, the banks want the cash from loans and overdrafts. None much cares what the students do after graduating, they are all keen not to lose their punters. It could easily be argued that the students are being used with false promises and the idea that university is the only route to success.
It is perfectly reasonable to want to join the workforce at 18 and that does not mean you cease to learn anything that contributes to the richness of society. We live in a country where cab-driver have won Mastermind. In my experience 3 or 4 years dossing around doing low-bar entry degrees adds nothing but debt to society. Most courses could easily be completed in 2 years but that doesn't feed the industry as well so are not sold to students.
We need people working and paying taxes because our ageing population has to be supported. (The real reason behind the Labour open-door immigration policy). So to suggest the people that don't go to university contribute less to society is plain wrong.
I refer you again to the reality of student debt. It is a unique debt in that it is only paid back if the person earns over certain thresholds of income and they are pretty high. There is no impact on credit score, no default consequences and automatically written off after 30 years.
You comments regarding character: I don't base my perceptions on what the press is saying. I look beyond that.
TWI(May)C...
Jun 11th, 2017 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse -2One issue you Engrish are over-looking...
When that stiff upper lip cramp loosens..., you May start Thinking...
Is it wise to send DWW May to the European Poker Game of the Century with a declared hand of treys...?
The DUP. Saving the Tories bacon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxpYW_w5pgo
Jun 11th, 2017 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0TWIMC...
Jun 11th, 2017 - 07:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Vote against being DUPed by some extremist NI-MICKS...
+700,000 Engrishmen & women have already done so in the last 24 hours...
https://www.change.org/p/theresamay-to-resign-from-number10-no-to-the-dup-winston-gove-postmanpratt1
@EB
Jun 11th, 2017 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I didn't say people who don't go to university contribute less to society. But there are some jobs that require a degree and not all of them pay well, so it is reasonable that society contribute towards these, especially if there is a shortage.
However I agree with you about the false promises and this makes charging students such a high price even worse. Successive governments have encouraged more and more people to go to Uni, which simultaneously makes having a degree more necessary and less useful, while the price continues to rise. Germany has put more emphasis on vocational education and I think the benefits are obvious. Note that a lot of the people coming to work here are plumbers, builders etc because we have a shortage of people trained to do these jobs.
And I know how student loans work, I took out one myself for my living costs. I think a graduate tax would be preferable and not drastically different in actual implementation.
You may look beyond the press when judging character, but I don't think most people do, so that's what matters in the election.
@Think
I imagine the Tories are already lining up behind May the better to stab her in the back, but the DUP are their only option. The Lib Dems are not going to make the same mistake twice, and that only leaves the SNP, who would not support the Tories (don't think any other parties have enough seats). Nor can any other combination of parties reach the required majority, so it is pointless to sign the petition. Almost certainly they will call another election sooner rather than later, and it's all going to screw up the Brexit talks mightily.
EscoSesDoidao
Jun 11th, 2017 - 10:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sour grapes...it could have been worse...the Tories could have lost a third of their seats...
How bad would that have been...?
@ DT
Jun 12th, 2017 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse +2How on earth would it be possible to determine which degrees were paid for by tax-payers? Better to introduce a scheme where the said professions sponsor degrees in return for a number of years of service. This is widely available in other countries.
Yes, the obsession about degrees (started by TB) has become a nonsense and I have said here many times about the value of vocational qualifications.
The problem with our 24 hour news entertainment channels is their need to fill so many hours. They whip up nonsense with no regard for the consequences. The election is over and the people have voted but still they are dragging out the story. One would think Corbyn won instead of losing resoundingly to the Tory's. 56 seats and the highest percentage of votes since MT is not a close result. That Corbyn could not beat May when she ran such a terrible campaign is the real story.
When looking beyond the press coverage it is important to think about who benefits from our government being is disarray before the most important negotiations of our time. If Corbyn genuinely cared about the country and not his own ego he would accept defeat with good grace and rally behind the government at this difficult time. Or does he have no respect for the democratic process?
Mr. Voice...
Jun 12th, 2017 - 12:30 pm - Link - Report abuse -1You ask Wee Doido...:
《“It could have been worse...the Tories could have lost a third of their seats...
How bad would that have been...?”》
I will answer that one..., because I'm much taller than him an nearly an inch taller than you...:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nXQ90_dv6I8
... Not as bad as today..., with the tories allying themselves..., not with Muslim Fundamentalists..., nor wth Catlick Fundamentalists but with Anglocain Fundamenalists..., to send Dead Woman Waking May to negotiate In panic with the EU ..., after what she will be forced to resign 10 Drowning to Boris..., who, in turn, will have to concede a new elction..., in which they will lose a third of their seats...
@EB
Jun 13th, 2017 - 09:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0They can determine which degrees taxpayers should contribute to in the same way they do now. For example there are currently bursaries for teachers, and they are bigger in subjects where there are shortages.
I agree with you in general about the news organisations, but with a hung parliament the drama is very much not over. May is still holding talks with the DUP, and there is likely to be another election sooner rather than later. Since Labour were not far behind the Tories on share of vote, they wouldn't need much of a swing to beat them next time. Or, maybe the Tories can ditch May for someone more popular, get rid of the policies that annoyed their base, and get that majority they wanted. In the meantime people are going to keep speculating, and May is in a precarious position.
@Think
DUP aren't Anglicans, they're evangelical Christians and a lot of them are Free Presbyterians. Anglicans are generally quite sane, at least in the UK.
“Anglicans”...?
Jun 13th, 2017 - 10:04 am - Link - Report abuse -1Who said “Anglicans”...?
Please read again..., lad...
Well, what else did you mean by 'Anglocain'? Maybe if you didn't feel obliged to use insulting names for everything I would be able to understand you better.
Jun 13th, 2017 - 10:24 am - Link - Report abuse +1Quite self-explanatory compound word, that... “Anglo -Cain” one..., I would Think...
Jun 13th, 2017 - 10:52 am - Link - Report abuse -1Specially...,in the religious fundamentalist context it is being used...
@DT
Jun 13th, 2017 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse +1Why would there be another GE when Labour lost by 56 seats and percentage of votes? It is a nonsense. A Labour hung parliament under Callahan dragged on for years and Labour didn't even have the majority vote. Are you suggesting we keep holding GEs until we get the result you want?
Do you remember when Labour under Gordon Brown attempted to make a deal with the DUP? Why is it wrong for the Torys to do so now? None of the contentious issues, like abortion and gay rights, are even on the table for discussion. What is more likely is that they soften the Tory stance on cuts because they represent a lot of underprivileged voters.
I can see a Tory Leadership election in the Autumn but no GE until after Brexit. (I didn't vote for Brexit but accepted the majority vote - albeit with a shake of my head in disbelief). Now it is about uniting for the good of the country instead of complaining about losing. The negotiations are the most important of this country for decades and continued squabbling only serves to weaken our hand. Corbyn ain't PM.
One good piece of news for all of us is that May seems to have listened to the criticism and is changing her direction on austerity measures and some of the more abhorrent parts of her manifesto. About bloody time.
@EB
Jun 13th, 2017 - 11:41 am - Link - Report abuse -1What does the number of seats and percentage of votes have to do with it? Minority governments are in general unstable and ineffective and the DUP do not seem a particularly reasonable and cooperative bunch. Most likely at some point the Tories will have had enough and will hold another election in the hope of obtaining a majority. I agree we can expect a Tory leadership election much sooner.
I'm surprised you're complaining so much, quite frankly. You said before the election you wanted a strong opposition, and we've got one. Perhaps you don't like having an opposition with it's own ideas rather than one that is very little different to the government?
@DT
Jun 13th, 2017 - 12:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I welcome a strong opposition. I am not complaining about the result at all, just the ridiculous whining from the losers and an inability to accept defeat.
You are assuming you know how I voted. Don't assume because I am defending our election system that I supported the winning side. What I object to is the nastiness of campaigning and the inability to put the good of the country before a 'team'. This U.S. style of politics is polluting our system.
The DUP seemed fine for Labour to work with so I can't see it being so very difficult. Hung parliaments are not idea but as I said before, it didn't stop Labour from governing for years before calling an election. I would expect the Torys to do the same because the last thing in the world we need is another election. And you also assume too much by predicting a win for Labour should an early election be called.
We have what the majority voted for and we should be lobbying for the best policies not trying to undermine our democracy and sulking about the result. (Not suggesting you are but many on social media are).
@EB
Jun 13th, 2017 - 12:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't social media so I haven't encountered any whining, thankfully. I wouldn't take it seriously, certainly our election system is in no danger, and I doubt much has really changed in terms of people supporting 'teams'; you just hear about it more. I don't know who you voted for but I think it's reasonable to infer it wasn't Corbyn. ;)
I wasn't aware Labour had ever worked with the DUP, when was that? Either way we will see what happens. You said Labour governed for years as a minority but it wasn't a particularly strong or effective government, was it? It's usually the governing party who finds the situation intolerable after a while, but Brexit does complicate things; I can see them not wanting to disrupt the talks by holding another election, even though it will be hard to get agreement from within their own party. At least this result may cause the Tories to back off from hard Brexit and austerity somewhat.
I have never predicted a Labour win, and I don't think anyone else in this thread has either. You must have imagined it.
@DT
Jun 13th, 2017 - 01:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well I suggest anyone interested in politics takes social media seriously because it has a huge influence now. Something some parties enhance and use and other ignore at their peril.
Yes GB wanted to make an alliance with them. It didn't happen as other events took over but the Labour Party was ready and willing.
If you think the government is unstable (and I agree), consider how much more unstable a Labour led government would be with far 56 less seats and without the majority mandate from the masses.
Where did I say you predicted a Labour win. You must have imagined it.
@EB
Jun 13th, 2017 - 07:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -1You're probably right about social media, but that doesn't mean I want to subject myself to all the trolls and idiots, and the sort of attitudes you described earlier.
So GB considered it but it never happened, that means we don't know how easy the DUP are to work with, or whether their conditions were acceptable or not. I don't think it tells us anything about how this government will go.
I'm sure a Labour-led coalition, if Labour had got enough seats, would have been at least as unstable. However personally I would prefer that combination of parties to the current one, it would have been pretty interesting to see how it worked out, and would definitely result in a new direction for the Brexit talks.
“Where did I say you predicted a Labour win. You must have imagined it.”
.... It's right there in the post I was responding to:
“And you also assume too much by predicting a win for Labour should an early election be called.”
There was like an hour between your posts, surely you didn't forget that quickly??
@DT
Jun 13th, 2017 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Ah, don't get offensive, we are having a good discussion.
Social media might well be awful at times but an awareness is essential for anyone interested in politics and the safety of the country. It is a phenomenon that we can't escape.
The point I was making is the 'shock/horror' cries from Corbyn supporters is lacking in the knowledge that a Labour PM was willing to make the same deal to stay in power. We don't know how the DUP will be to work with but I have set out why I don't think they will be as bad as Corbynistas are asserting. We don't know but both parties have been prepared to consider it.
If Labour had got the most seats and the majority vote, though not a majority in the house, they absolutely would have the right to form a government and I would support that. However, a coalition by Labour at this point would also have to include the DUP and everyone else. You are also forgetting that the LibDems said they will not join with anyone. It would be complete chaos. Ultimately I support our system of government and the will of the majority. The majority of people voted for a Conservative government and that is indisputable.
I don't agree with your assumption about the Brexit talks. We don't know exactly what direction the talks will go at this stage. We know Corbyn stated he would go ahead with Brexit and not hold another referendum. I am against us leaving the EU but have to accept the majority decision. What is for sure is that we do not hold the winning hand in the poker game that is about to start. It is more likely we will have to take the terms we are given by the other 28 players and the clock is ticking. What we really don't need is to make our player's hand even weaker going into the game.
Mr.DemonTree...
Jun 13th, 2017 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Not of me business, but...
If I were you..., I woud check Anglo Turnipette ElaineB's “Story” about Gordon Brown and the DUP...
It's all there..., on the Internet..., easily available to any Thinking person... (Have just checked it...;-)
As usual with ElaineB..., a 5% of truth combined with a 95% of spin make a perfect piece of fake news from her...
Pip..., pip...
@EB
Jun 13th, 2017 - 10:28 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I'm not trying to be offensive, but I want you to reply to what I am saying, not to whatever you have seen on social media. I dislike it when people put words in my mouth.
I don't know what social media is saying about the DUP but I'm not thrilled they are getting power and I don't think it's a good thing for the UK, and I'd say the same if Labour were working with them instead. Nevertheless, the Tories don't have any other option so they'll just have to try and make it work.
I don't see how Labour could form a government with the current distribution of seats. With a few more it might be feasible, even if they still had less than the Tories, because the SNP are the third biggest party and I can't see then supporting a Tory government. Also the Lib Dems said they wouldn't join a coalition, I don't think they have ruled out a more limited arrangement. But in the current system, needing support from more than one party seems like a good way to make sure nothing ever gets done.
I don't support our system of government, because FPTP means that the majority of people's votes make no difference in the majority of elections. I would like a system where every vote counts and the parties are required to appeal to everyone rather than concentrating their efforts in just a few seats. I know that comes with it's own problems, but at least a party can't get a huge majority without getting a majority of the votes.
About the Brexit talks, we know each party has different things in their manifesto, so certainly the aims and outcome would be different if Labour were in power. The question isn't whether we are leaving, it's on what terms, and we do have a choice in that. As for making our player's hand weaker, I'm afraid we have just done that, though really May did it to herself. Either way it is done and there is nothing we or the social media whingers can do about it now.
@Think
He did try and gain their support in 2010, and I already knew nothing came of it. So?
Not correct...
Jun 13th, 2017 - 10:53 pm - Link - Report abuse -2@Think
Jun 13th, 2017 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Well, some of the media are definitely claiming that, not to mention Elaine's favourite the social media. However their stories all seem to lead back to this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7683450/General-Election-2010-DUP-now-being-courted-by-Labour.html which was a letter sent before the election, not after, although it does seem to be trying to gain their support.
The thing is that Brown's attempt to form a coalition was cut short so we just don't know if he would ever have made a deal with them in practice. But I'm not going to condemn the Tories just for talking to them, I'll wait and see what concessions they make.
@ Think
Jun 14th, 2017 - 10:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0You just love your shit don't you. If you are not sniffing your own shit you are stirring it.
@DT
In a discussion, rarely are all points covered fully. I wanted answers to some of the points I put to you but you chose to answer the ones you wanted to and in the interest of keeping an interesting conversation going, I didn't labour the point. (no pun intended)
FPTP is our current system and PR has been talked about but never gained much support. Remember when the LIbDems made it their sole election promise? They have pretty much disappeared as a party now. My point is that I support the current democratic system in our country because the alternative is anarchy. I don't want the noisiest and most troublesome people grabbing power just because they think their individual choice is more important that the majority. If the majority of people want a different system then the majority of people need to make that happen.
To use the old Churchill quote “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others”. It is flawed and not everyone gets what they want so to avoid a dog eat dog society we chose to accept the majority decision. Though this is not a passive position when it comes to being an effective opposition. Already, the election result has had a profound effect on the government. There is talk of the end of austerity, removing the wage caps on civil servants, keeping the triple lock on pensions and not robbing the elderly of their life savings. So, I would call that a massive win.
Just to mention social media again. Ignore Shit Stirrer, I don't have a favourite medium but monitor parts of it to keep informed. Like it or not it Is a big part of society now and carries power. To ignore it is a choice but a foolish one for anyone with any influence.
Mr. DemonTree...
Jun 14th, 2017 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Gordon Brown tried to form a coalition in 2010 alright... but NOT with the DUP...
There were contacts with those DUPers... mostly asking them to not interfer or vote against an eventual Labor-XXX coalition at the Queens speech...
One thing is inviting that sweet little cousin suffering from Down Syndrome to Yorkshire Pudding Sunday Dinner..., welcoming her at your home and encouraging her to make some gravy and wash some dishes...
Another is marrying her..., breed 12 kids together with the inherit condition..., and let her run the family business...
You get me drift...?
@EB
Jun 14th, 2017 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's difficult to cover everything with the 2000 character limit, but if I haven't answered something you are interested in then you are welcome to ask again.
I'm afraid I don't remember when the Lib Dems made PR their sole election promise, they have always had a full manifesto since I have been able to vote. Which election was that?
I do remember they wanted to hold a referendum on PR but the Tories would only agree to hold one on AV instead, which no one wanted or even understood.
You must know there are many other systems, used in many other countries, which do not result in anarchy or anything like it. In some ways the form of government is less important than people's attitudes and respect for it, but the lack of young people voting in recent years suggests we have a problem. I am hoping this election was not a one off and this group continues to take an interest in politics.
As for talk about end of austerity, we can hope for changes but I am going to wait and see what happens before cheering. What I really want to see is more opportunity for working people to get ahead, which means stable jobs that pay a decent wage, and housing that's affordable so there is something left over to save.
And I was joking about social media, I agree it is important but fortunately I have no influence so I don't need to worry.
Also there are some interesting stats on voters on the BBC. YouGov estimates that voters aged 18-29 voted 63% for Labour and 22% for the Conservatives, a huge swing from last time. Graduates voted 49% Labour and 32% Conservative, while those with only GCSE's went 33% Labour, 55% Conservative. These are also a big change from the 2015 election and probably represent people switching support due to Brexit.
@Think
What a charming analogy.
What do you think the Tories should be doing instead of talking to the DUP?
@ DT
Jun 14th, 2017 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ignore Think he is attention grabbing by being as revolting as possible.
If you think we should have a different form of government the only way to achieve that is to convince the majority. Personally, I doubt it will change and until it does I shall defend it even if I don't like the result.
Very interesting stats. I just cannot see there is a will to call another GE one week after the last one. Like you say, let's see where this government is going first.
@EB
Jun 14th, 2017 - 10:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Somehow I think now is not the time to be holding more referendums. ;)
It is a problem though. Apart from the skewing of seats vs votes, it also means campaigning is concentrated in just a few areas. There is a big issue in my town, which successive governments have been steadfastly ignoring, and it has recently got worse. I suspect that if this wasn't such a safe seat, they would have done something about it long before now, but since no one needs to fight for our support nothing ever happens.
As for calling another GE in a week's time, seems pointless to me. Why would we expect any different result? In a few months time, after we've had chance to see how things are going, it might be worth doing (but it would interfere with the Brexit talks, so still not ideal).
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!