MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Bachelet promised to submit a proposal to Congress which seeks to create a ministry for Indigenous people.
On Friday, Chilean President Michelle Bachelet extended a formal apology to the Mapuche people for “errors and horrors” perpetrated by the state against their communities. She announced plans to concede more power and resources to the Indigenous group. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesBallenet should apologise for the abysmal nature of her present corrupt socialist government, reflected in her approval rating in the polls at just 18 percent.
Jun 25th, 2017 - 01:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Mapuches and Araucanos are synonyms. The Araucanians, as the name implies, originate in Arauco, Chile, not Argentina. They were not even described in the scientific expeditions, made by Europeans in the Eastern Patagonia, but they were sighted in Chile. And the term Mapuche is a relatively new, because ancestrally they are known like Araucanos.
Jun 25th, 2017 - 03:51 pm - Link - Report abuse -1You have it both wrong and backwards, piba, as is so much of your argentinicity. The “araucano” word was given by the Spanish and is thus comparatively inappropriate for reference to the Mapuche. The word arauco means “silty water.” “Mapuche” is a term that the Mapuche used to describe themselves long before the arrival of the Spanish, though it was also used in Quechua to describe the Mapuche. Véase: “En la lengua mapuche o mapudungún, el nombre que ellos mismos se dan es mapuche, o mapunche, compuesto de mapu, 'tierra, país', y che, 'persona, gente'; es decir, 'gente de la tierra', «nativo». ” ¿viste?
Jun 25th, 2017 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Argentine racism and xenophobia have attempted to deny that the Mapuche are native to what is now Argentina. However, prior to the arrival of the Spanish, the Mapuche had no reason to consider the present political divisions as any sort of boundary, and moved freely between Chile and Argentina, with permanent or semi-permanent settlements on both sides of the present frontiers. Argentine politicians and legal wannabes attempt to dismiss the indigenous Mapuche as foreigners in order to reject ancient, ancestral claims to the territory in which archeologists have confirmed their long pre-colonial presence, with perhaps as much as 2000 years in present-day Argentina before the arrival of the Spanish.
“Just Mary” will now attempt to convince us that there was no genocide by the argies against the Mapuche and other indigenous peoples.
I'm not a “piba”, and if you're insulting me, that speaks more to you than to me. And I think that those who have an anti-Argentine feeling are people like you, that in each post all it does is exacerbate that feeling. I am not Argentine.
Jun 25th, 2017 - 06:42 pm - Link - Report abuse -2In all the European expeditions carried out in the South American continent, in the islands, in the coasts, in the Patagonia, they only described the Mapuches in the region of Arauco.
Later, after independence from Argentina, the Araucanians crossed into the Eastern Patagonia. They were already known as excellent warriors, strong men. The first Araucanians arrived in Eastern Patagonia in 1830, were 100 of these men captained by Yanquetruz, took the Guenaken natives, and annihilated them. Even the Welsh community of Argentine Patagonia (a community driven by the Argentine government) and the Tehuelches natives of those lands showed mutual respect.
When the Mapuche threatened the Welsh and Tehuelche community, committing kidnappings, robberies and assassinations, the Argentine government proceeded to defend its inhabitants. They did what any State would do in defense of their respective Nation. Do you know the Welsh community in Argentina? Have you ever dealt with this community?
An appalling lack of scholarship, Mary, though we see that your misstatements coincide perfectly with Argentine propaganda. You offer further evidence that argentinicity is not bounded by ADN or frontiers but thrives where intellectual dishonesty is encouraged for the glorification of the State. Your limitations keep you from even understanding the errors associated with the “Araucanian” naming and reveal your participation in the racial discrimination toward indigenous peoples that characterise the modern Argentine kultur.
Jun 25th, 2017 - 10:07 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Restricting your notions to the limited European observations of the early colonial era concerning early Mapuche settlement and ignoring the subsequent discoveries by contemporary archeologists speak again to your lack of intellectual honesty. You would do well to review the archaeological record of Mapuche habitation in what is now Argentina, long before the discovery of the New World.
The Mapuche were nomads. Some of the land of Patagonia undoubtedly belongs to them. They were systematically genocided by Argentina. Argentina and Chile should treat them with respect and restore some land to their stewardship. The fact that some Argentines were of Welsh origin is irrelevant.
Jun 25th, 2017 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Mapuche as (solely) nomads - another bit of a myth. There is a great deal of material showing evidence of ancient Mapuche settlements - permanent or semi-permanent settlements - in both Chile and Argentina. In some of the work done quite recently by Alberto Pérez and Silvia Rosales in the area near San Martín de los Andes (Argentina) there have been some telling discoveries that confirm both the age and the presence of Mapuche settlements there. The linking of buried remains (from about the year 1300) was done through matching mitochondrial DNA, which showed positive correspondence between the remains and baseline or modern Mapuche DNA. Radiocarbon dating indicated the evidence of a number of food items associated with permanent settlement. A summary of some of the work (in Spanish) can be seen here http://www.rionegro.com.ar/sociedad/una-doncella-mapuche-de-900-anos-MA424439
Jun 26th, 2017 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0There are as many british-argentine citizens as people with “original people” background in Argentina. Around 400.000 people in both cases. So, having a “Ministry” of “native people affairs” would be something useless in Argentina.
Jun 26th, 2017 - 11:38 am - Link - Report abuse -1Argentina and Chile are responsible for the annihilation of indigenous peoples.
Jun 26th, 2017 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse -1The strange thing is that Marti Llazo only blames Argentina. Why will it be?
Indigenous people are subject to rights, and in both nations they are considered chileans or argentines.
Do you know who was Alexander Mac Lennan? Julius Popper? Mister Bond? Alexander A. Cameron? Samuel Hyslop? John McRae? Montt E. Wales?
@pgerman
Jun 26th, 2017 - 03:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Argentina has a ministry for Malvinas and there are only 3000 people there.
More seriously, I would say the need for a ministry depends less on the total number of people and more on whether they have their own unique needs and issues, not shared by the rest of the population. It seems that Bachelet thinks they do.
@DemonTree
Jun 26th, 2017 - 04:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It seems that there are around 1.5 millon people with “mapuche” background in Chile (over 18 million inhabitants) while in Argentina there are 400.000 people with “native” background that includes all the different ethnicities (including “mapuches”). The argentine population is around 40 million. So, the importance of the issue is completely different in both countries.
Take for instance that it is considered that 5% of the population of a nation have gay tendencies...so any GLB issue is more important in argentine society.
In Argentina there are different Ministries that works, and deal, with the issues of different minorities. In addition, the National Constitution (from 1853) protects the freedom of all the citizens no matter their religion, sexual tendencies, race, etc..so, honestly I don't see the need of a special ministry for “native people” issues.
pgerman: “ ....while in Argentina there are 400.000 people with “native” background...”
Jun 26th, 2017 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We have always maintained that Argentine genocides have been much more extensive, brutal, and efficient than those of the neighbouring nations. pgerman's number describing the very few survivors seems to support that observation.
Marti Llazo
Jun 26th, 2017 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I repeat again the question I 've made before to you: who was Alexander Mac Lennan? Julius Popper? Mister Bond? Alexander A. Cameron? Samuel Hyslop? John McRae? Montt E. Wales?
@pgerman
Jun 26th, 2017 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Why are there so many fewer natives in Argentina compared to Chile? Seems odd when Argentina is much the bigger country.
Your numbers do suggest that it makes more sense for Chile to have a ministry for Indigenous people than Argentina, which is probably why it is Chile that is planning to create one.
Which ministry in Argentina deals with Indigenous people's issues currently?
Julius Popper? Why, Argentina must decolonise Tierra del Fuego and return it to the Romanians.
Jun 26th, 2017 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Marti Llazo
Jun 26th, 2017 - 09:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Alexander Mac Lennan? Julius Popper? Mister Bond? Alexander A. Cameron? Samuel Hyslop? John McRae? Montt E. Wales? Do you konow them? only Julius Popper... what about the others?
Do I “ konow” them? Alas, they were a trifle before my time. However, Videla, Massera and Agosti were my contemporaries, and infinitely more capable in the arts of mass murder and crimes against humanity. Some say they killed or disappeared some 30,000. I know that Videla's people had me detained, but since it was only briefly and without major discomfort I consider myself indeed fortunate to have subsequently lived long enough to witness a broader spectrum of depravity in this country.
Jun 27th, 2017 - 12:20 am - Link - Report abuse -1Marti Llazo is entirely correct on this thread.
Jun 27th, 2017 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse +1Just Mary you should not even comment on such issues if your understanding is so poor that you can state
“the term Mapuche is a relatively new, because ancestrally they are known like Araucanos”
@ Marti Llazo
Jun 27th, 2017 - 01:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your comments, and posts, are invalidated by your visceral rejection, and hatred, against everything that comes from Argentina and the argentine people. There is no point in arguing with a fan. It would be like If I would reject everything coming from British (or Chilean) culture as evil. No point of discussing with you at all.
@DemonTree
The historical fact is that in the current argentine territory there were almost none important aboriginal culture. Mapuches were from the West side of the Andes and there were little population in the East side of it. Some crossed the Andes after the independence wars since they fight on the Spanish side.
The Inca empire reached also in the “borders” of the current argentine territory.
The fact that one ethnicity, or racial group, tend to disappear in a country doesn’t mean that there were a genocide at all. Demographic movements, and evolution, is a complex issue.
The argentine nationalists and fascist, enrolled in the “revisionist” historic movement promote the “legend” that black people were sent to “Triple Alianza” War in an attempt to make them disappear but there are no historical records of regiments of colored people serving in the Argentine Army. So, it is a fake legend seeking to defile the incipient Argentine democracy.
The predominantly European nature of the Argentine population and the very small surviving numbers of indigenous people in the country is a clue here. The fact of the matter is that Argentina had the most effective ethnic cleansing measures in all of Latin America. The genocides conducted here in Argentina are of course denied by the residents. Denial is Argentina's middle name. Look at every other aspect of its culture and corrupt governance.
Jun 27th, 2017 - 04:27 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Physical extermination, sterilisation, deportation from ancestral lands, preferential murder of indigenous women, concentration procedures, outright enslavement, “identity cleansing” of children, and other cultural destruction measures were all part of Argentina's national policy and these are objectively viewed as having been extremely effective in creating the degree of homogeneity that successive Argentine governments defined as essential for its nation-building. (The famous practice of killing parents and redistributing children to others we tend to associate with Argentina's “Dirty War” but in fact it was part of the genocide conducted long before, as state policy. Some of these practices continued overtly through the Perón years and were not even seriously investigated until after the year 2000. Certainly other countries in Latin America employed various measures to shape their populations -- Chile's displacement of the Mapuche to allow large German colonisation, for example. But nowhere in the history of Latin America was the national genocide policy quite as broad, brutal, extensive, and effective as in Argentina. And it shows.
Of course they deny it.
@DemonTree
Jun 27th, 2017 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse -1You had asked the ministry in Argentina that deals with Indigenous people's issues currently.
The federal govenrment institutions that has responsibility over this minority is the Foreing Ministry. Its official name is “Ministro de Relaciones Exteriores y Culto”.
Perhaps not every caught the joke from pgerman “.....Indigenous people's issues currently......The federal govenrment institutions that has responsibility over this minority is the Foreing Ministry. Its official name is “Ministro de Relaciones Exteriores y Culto”.
Jun 27th, 2017 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0pgerman is being very, very argentine here.
In reality, internal indigenous affairs are not handled by the Foreign Ministry, but rather by the national Justice Ministry.
The actual name here is ”Ministerio de Justicia y Derechos Humanos.” Under that ministry is the Secretaría de Derechos Humanos y Pluralismo Cultural, and under that is the Instituto Nacional de Asuntos Indígenas (established in 1985, during the Alfonsín government, which is to say, not Peronismo) . Since I know you all read or can figger out the Spanish, here is the mission statement for the latter:
“ Desarrollamos y coordinamos políticas públicas para garantizar el desarrollo comunitario, el derecho a la salud y la educación, el acceso a la tierra y la preservación de las identidades culturales indígenas. Impulsamos la participación de las comunidades en el diseño y gestión de las políticas de Estado que las involucran, respetando sus formas de organización tradicional y sus valores.”
pgerman's attempt at humour was not unlike trying to tell you that indigenous people within Argentina are to be treated as “foreigners.” Though that pretty much reveals the true relationship and sentiment that the bulk of these exceedingly racist argentines practice.
@pgerman
Jun 27th, 2017 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I suppose it's true there were no empires or large population centres in what is now Argentina, but there were still dozens of different indigenous groups. And I think all the 'aboriginal cultures' were important to the people they belonged to. Also there were enough people in Patagonia to cause significant trouble to Argentina and it took a war to conquer and subdue them.
@ML
Ministry of Justice and Human Rights makes a lot ore sense, but then I don't understand why 'worship' falls under the foreign ministry either.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!