MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazil: Janot files formal corruption charges against Temer
Brazil's top prosecutor slapped President Michel Temer with a lengthy indictment Monday night, charging the embattled leader with corruption. The allegations, which include accepting millions of dollars in bribes and approving hush money, make Temer the first sitting president in the country's history to be charged with a crime. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rules#ForaTemer: https://twitter.com/AngelaMilanese/status/879800337888096256
Jun 27th, 2017 - 11:55 pm - Link - Report abuse -1He became President as a result of corruption charges, it would be pretty appropriate if he was also thrown out of the presidency due to corruption charges.
Jun 28th, 2017 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse +1“Lawmakers are unwilling to jump the Temer government's ship when there is no clear ship to jump to.”
This seems to be the main sticking point. Is there no one else willing to step up? I guess it would focus more attention on whoever it was though, which might not be desirable (for them) with investigations still ongoing.
I wonder if Enrique believes now that the corruption investigations are real and not just cooked up in order to go after Lula and Dilma?
Will they find anyone who is NOT corrupt?, I think the same applies to Argentina.
Jun 28th, 2017 - 11:09 am - Link - Report abuse +1DemonTree Re: KPMG
Jun 28th, 2017 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“That would be these forensic auditors, yes?”
Yes, but in cases like this where for example you have a corrupt judge. Unless there is proven malfeasance in a particular case his judgements are considered sacrosanct.
The logic being that to make hundreds of judgements invalid would do a greater harm. Which is what is likely to happen in this instance. Moreover, it is probably known and accepted by both defence and prosecutors as the news date is 24 January 2017. Otherwise, the defence wouldn’t be placing any reliance on them, as it's not exacly their first rodeo.
@TH
Jun 28th, 2017 - 01:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You said “They are forensic auditors so you can’t have a better vetting system.”
Clearly you do in fact need a much better vetting system, and equally clearly the fact that they signed off on Petrobras' accounts between 2006 and 2011 does not prove anything.
Your example of a corrupt judge is not relevant. Petrobras executives have already been convicted of taking kickbacks and bribery, and since - according to them - KPMG did not find the ongoing corruption, they are clearly in no position to say whether Lula was involved in it or not.
@golfcronie
There are some minor parties who weren't powerful enough to be worth bribing, and maybe a few politicians who are too new to have got much involved.
If one of the corrupt is kicked out, another one will take his or her place; since EACH & EVERYONE is Totally Corrupt.
Jun 28th, 2017 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Just LEGALIZE corruption and END the never-ending soap opera!
DemonTree
Jun 28th, 2017 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What is a better vetting system than forensic auditors?
Outside of the kangaroo circus that passes itself of as a justice system it is known as ‘the best available evidence’. Regardless, of what you opine it acceptable to the prosecution and the court. The example of a corrupt judge is illustrative, and must be relative in view of it’s acceptance.
@TH
Jun 28th, 2017 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I have no idea what would be a better vetting system, and it's not relevant. The point is the one they used has been shown to not be very reliable.
Your judge analogy is faulty exactly because there IS proven malfeasance in this case. Knowing that the same company has missed or colluded in hiding corruption in previous cases must make their evidence less reliable. I am sure the court will consider it, and likely give it the same weight as I did.
@DT (re previous “Bzln pres to tour Russia”)
Jun 28th, 2017 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Anyone who goes to the trouble of analyzing the current, and the proposed pension & labour systems will conclude the reforms are essential ; the unions are behind the protests, as they are the only ones who have anything to lose with the labour reform, and are manipulating the lesser-informed to give the protests a touch of legitimacy. The latter will protest just about anything...for money and a sandwich.
Janio was intelligent, but his eccentricity made him appear mad…as governor of SP, he prohibited the playing of ‘rock & roll’ music at all parties; as president he forbade the use of bathing suits in beauty contests, the use of bikinis on the beach, and horse-racing on weekdays…his behavior was weird : in public, he’d fake extreme fatigue to gain sympathy from the people, he gave instructions to his subordinates through dozens of short notes every day, instead of speaking to them, and on one occasion, when asked by a reporter why he drank so much, he replied, “ I drink because it’s liquid, if it were solid I’d eat it”…when he resigned, instead of explaining why, he simply blamed ‘occult forces’…Later on, his daughter tried to have him committed to a looney bin.
Where TH lives is relevant to his credibility. Unless he lived in Brazil, his opinions are no more than what he selectively picks out on the internet.
Regarding the KPMG auditors, they concluded there were no irregularities in the Pasadena Refinery case (???), they failed to detect the hundreds of millions of dollars received by the PB directors - who have already confessed / been convicted. They didn't audit the companies which paid the bribes, and have it all documented in their 'bribery' departments .
Hill must believe that the directors of Odebrecht, OAS and PB, all confessed to crimes they didn't commit because they liked the idea of going to prison and having all their ”hard-earned' wealth confiscated. His logic just doesn't add up.
@JB
Jun 28th, 2017 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That does sound a bit weird, although the liquid thing must be a joke. Wikipedia says he resigned hoping that congress would ask him to come back and give him extra powers on tax and land reform, but they accepted his resignation and let Goulart take over instead.
I did have a quick google, but couldn't find TH saying anything about where he lived. I'm not going to go through years' worth of archives to find it, but I am assuming he was not in Brazil.
There have been plenty of scandals in the UK where auditors failed to spot quite blatant irregularities. That's why I thought it worth looking to see if KPMG had been caught in anything. Really these firms seem pretty useless, either they aren't doing their jobs properly or that are involved in the corruption themselves.
TH just quotes things he has read. Maybe the KPMG evidence makes more sense in context; I presume Lula's lawyers have SOME idea what they are doing. But I don't think I can be bothered to look it up right now.
About the pension and labour reforms, what does the press say? Are they in favour or against them? People must watch TV news even if they don't read the papers, and how else are they going to learn about the reforms?
DemonTree
Jun 28th, 2017 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Your judge analogy is faulty exactly because there IS proven malfeasance in this case.”
What you’re missing is that KPMG paid the bribes to obtain the work. There is no evidence that their audit itself is incorrect.
“I am sure the court will consider it, and likely give it the same weight as I did.”
If this judge could have, he would have barred it already.
“Unless he lived in Brazil, his opinions are no more than what he selectively picks out on the internet.” While your opinions are what ever you manufacture, without one single person whom can verify what you claim. Not meeting your burden entitles it to be summary dismissed as BS.
Those that claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
@TH
Jun 28th, 2017 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What you’re missing is that KPMG paid the bribes to obtain the work.”
Did they? I assume you have some evidence for this? But if it's true it doesn't exactly make them look reliable, does it?
“There is no evidence that their audit itself is incorrect.”
Yeah, there is. Petrobras employees already admitted to the corruption, some are in jail for it. That proves any audit signed during this period was wrong.
“If this judge could have, he would have barred it already.”
Again, where is your proof of this opinion?
@DT
Jun 28th, 2017 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It’s not a joke…at the time it sounded ludicrous, but was televised and shown on TV, probably because of its ‘originality’. You’re right about him having hopes of being invited back, with more power, but his ploy backfired.
Agree with your comments on KPMG and other ‘large’ auditing firms - they aren’t all that reliable and are not immune to being bribed themselves. They have been exposed more than once for ‘sloppy’ work…
The (serious) press is generally in favour of the reforms…this becomes clear on panels where top journalists invite experts to debate, or in interviews, one on one. The only people you see that are against them, besides the unions - who stand to lose billions in easy funding - are Michel Temer’s political adversaries, especially the communist party and the PT - because they swore to vote against everything, regardless of its importance to get Brazil out of the hole. To them, the worse, the better, so that they can point their fingers and try to regain popular support. If you watched the protesters in action, blocking main avenues , shouting slogans and waving red flags – always DURING the week - you would see a rag-tag army of ignorant people, doing whatever they are told to, for a price. Serious people are either working or looking for a job.
No point in asking TH for proof....he can't and won't produce any. He insists on ignoring what most normal people have accepted ...even if they might not like it.
DemonTree
Jun 28th, 2017 - 11:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Did they? I assume you have some evidence for this? Yes the same site you are relying on.
“The accountancy giant that signed off Rolls-Royce accounts while it bribed its way around the world is now facing its own investigation.”
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4150212/KPMG-facing-probe-Rolls-Royce-bribery-revelation.html
“If this judge could have, he would have barred it already.”
“Again, where is your proof of this opinion?”
It’s matter of public record
http://en.mercopress.com/2017/03/15/lula-da-silva-denies-all-charges-in-court-i-have-been-a-victim-for-three-years/comments#comment464053
No point in asking JB for proof....he can't and won't produce any.
@JB
Jun 29th, 2017 - 09:24 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have to say that most of the pension reforms sound quite reasonable to me. And it's true that Lula planned to reform them too but, presumably, chickened out.
I can totally understand people objecting to losing benefits they were promised, and have paid contributions for; if a private company did this, there would be uproar. But the private company would simply go bankrupt, the government cannot do that.
As for Lula objecting, quite likely he is hoping Temer will succeed, and take the fall for it, leaving Lula looking like the good guy. If he is reelected I doubt he will do much to roll them back.
Why will the unions lose money from pension reforms? Or were there other changes planned as well?
@TH
So you have no proof at all, and it appears you misread my link; it is Rolls Royce that was found to have paid bribes to obtain contracts, not KPMG.
DemonTree
Jun 29th, 2017 - 11:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0You may be correct, it states “faces its own investigation”. Which is probably why their report is still accepted.
Regardless, “PricewaterhouseCoopers, the company that audited Petrobras from 2012 to 2016, period of Operation Car Wash’s activity, sent to the 13th Federal Court of Curitiba today (4/24/2017) an official letter denying either finding out, or having the knowledge about the practice of any illegal or corrupt act committed alongside the former President Lula in Petrobras (check […]” http://www.averdadedelula.com.br/en/2017/04/24/pwc-clears-lula/
@TH
Jun 29th, 2017 - 12:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ah, that would be this other giant financial services firm:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pwc-sued-for-record-55bn-over-collapse-of-taylor-bean-whitaker-tbw-us-mortgages-a7191356.html
They're a reliable lot, aren't they?
The same objection applies. According to them they failed to spot the fraud, so they can't possibly know who was involved and who wasn't. It's as useless as someone who didn't witness a robbery swearing that they never saw the defendant do it.
Lula has the difficulty of trying to prove a negative, but surely his lawyers can do better than that?
Even Venezuela? REF: http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Venezuela-Slams-Hypocrisy-of-OAS-Over-Repression-in-Brazil-20170526-0005.html
Jun 29th, 2017 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@DT
Jun 29th, 2017 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Funny thing about TH....first of all he claims that because KPMG stated Lula was innocent, he must be....then he goes on to admit that they paid bribes to 'get the work' (???)
And then he sends you a link to the Lula Institute's website, as if what it says about Lula must be regarded as proof.
But enough time wasted on him. Regarding the reforms, no-one will lose benefits, or money....that is the popular, misunderstood perception of what it's all about...instead of trying understand it, they'd rather condemn it....there's not much dialogue to be had with a bunch like that. The reforms maintain the basic rights of the workers spelled out in the current system, and in some cases adds flexibility, in order to attend several issues that workers have already requested, in the past.
To the contrary, Lula and the PT don't want Temer to succeed with the reforms....if Temer does, Lula will, once again, be seen as working against the people....but it needs time to prove itself. Just fyi, when FHG managed to get the “plano Real” passed in 1994, Lula and his allies were outraged and did everything they could to block it....simply because it wasn't a PT initiative and they knew, if it succeeded, it would be points for his 'enemies'.
Today the unions receive, without the need to show what they do with it, one day's salary from every registered worker in Brazil...that comes to R$ billions...which keeps them in clover, for doing very little, and in 90% of the cases , nothing...to get an idea of the 'business' behind it, there are over 14,000 unions in Brazil....one-tenth may be representative, the 90% aren't. What they don't like, is that with the reform, this contribution will become optional...so guess what ?
DemonTree
Jun 29th, 2017 - 01:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fortunately, it’s not his onus as under the precepts of international law he he has ’the presumption of innocence’. It is prosecutorial burden to prove otherwise. “Lula has the difficulty of trying to prove a negative” So does everyone else, which is why there is no requirement in a genuine legal system to provide such evidence.
So far the prosecution has been unable to find any facts to sustain their bogus narrative.
Or that there is any accounting discrepancies that implicate Lula in any manner.
All the narrative shows is that it is is a politically driven apparatus of ‘lawfare’. With the sole intent of preventing Lula from running for the presidency.
“For my friends, anything - for my enemies, the law,” Getulio Vargas
WRITING ON THE WALL:
Jun 29th, 2017 - 03:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Temer-Morto-Vivo-419x420.jpg
TH
Jun 29th, 2017 - 06:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't worry ...Lula IS being given the benefit of 'presumption of innocence'.....otherwise he'd already be in prison.....
Care to comment on KPMG's 'thorough' audit of PB, which found 'nothing' wrong ?
Instead of useless quotes, try answering a question every now and again....the fact you don't is because you know you're full of it.
@TH
Jun 29th, 2017 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you mind telling me something? In this legal case: http://en.mercopress.com/2017/06/10/temer-wins-the-day-with-a-divided-vote.-the-system-needs-stability-was-the-decisive-argument do you believe Rousseff and Temer were guilty?
I don't want any quotes or proof, just your own opinion.
@JB
I don't think that's true. If the pension age is increased, for example by 5 years, people not only lose 5 years' worth of benefits, but they also have to pay an extra 5 years worth of contributions. Therefore they get less money than they expected, and agreed to. The reforms could hardly save money for the state if this were not the case.
I don't think I understand Lula's position. If he thinks the reforms will be good for the country and make Temer popular, why didn't he carry them out as he promised? Then he could get the credit. The fact he abandoned the plan suggests to me that he thought they would be unpopular.
Do all workers have to belong to a union then? It's obvious that losing that money will be bad for the unions, less obvious whether it will be good or bad for workers.
---
Also, does anyone else think that Temer looks a bit like Dracula?
@DT
Jun 29th, 2017 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Today, with people living longer, a system that permits people to retire at 40, or even after only 15 years of contributions, is unsustainable. Where in the developed world do workers retire at 40, or 50 years old ? The social security system is predicting a deficit of R$ 180 billion for 2018 (if nothing is done)...Brazil has always been extremely generous with worker benefits, without having the infrastructure to support it. Either it becomes self-sustainable in the medium to long term, or in 10 years workers will no longer receive a pension. Simple as that.
Lula is not interested in anything that might affect his 'popularity' ; If he had gone ahead with the reforms, instead of chickening out (as you well described it), no doubt his party/ allies (then a majority) would have pushed them through Congress...but it's the same story every time...every candidate promises to do the much needed reforms which will 'benefit the people' and get govt spending under control - so he gets people's votes - but when they realize the impopularity that comes with taking harsh, impopular, but essential measures - because nothing less will do - they back out. Now that Temer has taken upon himself to do what others didn't have the balls to, will make all those who preceeded him look bad - provided he succeeds.
The opposition is bombarding the public with misleading information, when not outright lies, to make people suspicious and scared.....which seems to be working, as the 'ignorant' either don't believe or aren't capable of understanding, what's being proposed.
No, no one is obliged to belong to a union, but everyone is obliged to contribute. If the reform passes and the unions lose their 'generous' funding, their leaders will be out of a job. Given that the great majority of unions exist in name only - in order to get their share of the fund (much like most of the small political parties) - their disappearance won't be much of a loss.
Jack Bauer
Jun 29th, 2017 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Care to comment on KPMG's 'thorough' audit of PB”. Yeah it's the defence’s rebuttal of a prosecutorial claim and is the ‘best available evidence’. But, the difficulties you experience in forming rational thoughts is purely a result of your “Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice”.
DemonTree
Rousseff in strict legal terms no, but her trial was a misnomer as she was tried on political basis not legal one. Temer, I believe primer facia is guilty.
@JB
Jun 29th, 2017 - 08:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree the system is unsustainable. Retirement ages are much higher in Europe and increasing, except for certain jobs like army and fireman where you need to be young and fit. But people really do stand to lose something, that's why it is so unpopular.
With Lula, if you think the reforms will be proved beneficial in a few years, why didn't he do it at the start of his term? It would have allowed enough time for the benefits to show up and for people to forget about the pain, surely? What I reckon is, he doesn't think people will realise the benefit, and he wants Temer to do it so he doesn't have to. But I could be wrong.
I still don't understand the laws on unions. Do people have to pay even if they are not a member? If so how do they decide who gets the money? And if they only pay if they choose to join, why would they choose one that exists in name only and does nothing?
@TH
Considering that they were on trial together, for their joint campaign, I find it hard to see how one could be guilty and not the other. Notice that Rousseff has not come out and complained about the verdict, because to do so would implicate herself.
“Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice”
Why do you perpetually use ad hominems against Jack Bauer? You know they are a logical fallacy.
@DT
Jun 29th, 2017 - 10:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lula was floating on a cloud of popularity, and wasn't prepared to do anything that might tip the apple cart. And, one year into his first term, with the economy booming, why address such an impopular task ? impopular, if done properly, or if to have a positive effect on public accounts ; over the years, presidents attacked one or two small issues in these fields, but nothing really significant. To me, at the time he just couldn't be bothered...but now, with the risk of the reforms passing, under Temer, and being proved successful (if employment grows as a result), will reflect negatively on him...so as far as he's concerned, their success now, would spell disaster for him....and he's counting on the unions to help him.
As ridiculous as it sounds, one day's salary is lopped off every March paycheck, and goes to a fund which is then distributed amongst the unions. The employees have no say in matter, and have no idea how the money is spent, as the unions are not obliged to make their accounts public...so you can imagine what happens in Brazil ...with these billions of easy money.
If the contribution were optional, most would not pay....but if an employee wanted to, he would no doubt contribute to the union that represented his/her professional category (even if inefficiently), which would eventually make the parasite unions disappear....but today the parasite unions have a right to part of the fund because that's how the law is written. The idea is that the worker should decide whether or not to support the union that is supposed to represent him...and should have access to the unions accounts to ensure contributions are being spent properly.
Just a quick one on Dilma /Temer : although Dilma was obliged to swallow Temer, and each party “negotiated” their campaign funds separately, IMO, on this count they are both equally guilty. The fact Dilma did not complain about the TSE's verdict, says it all.
Maybe sooner or LATER on: https://www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Lula-Impune-580x363.jpg
Jun 29th, 2017 - 10:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +1DemonTree
Jun 30th, 2017 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Rousseff was impeached for same budget irregularities that every other administration practised, albeit to a larger extent.
She was had the reputation for and apparently did not engage in corrupt practices. Most constitutional legal opinions felt she shouldn’t be impeached. Temer on the other hand, from his own behaviour and that of his political appointees has been mired in nothing but a succession of corrupt practises.
“Why do you perpetually use ad hominems against Jack Bauer?” I don’t, I use less than a tenth of what he uses. Mine at least are accurate and have a proven scientific basis. I haven’t engaged, unlike him, in homophobic tirades, nor referred to him as a ‘twat’ and many other abuses of a sexual nature. I don’t complain because that is character of man, preferring to deal with what he states and therefore revealing what he really is. Funny how my truth deserves your comment, but on his abuses you stay silent.
@JB
Jun 30th, 2017 - 11:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0So everyone is forced to pay the unions but have no say in how they spend the money? Wow. I was wondering who on earth thought that was a good idea, and apparently it was enacted by Terence's favourite president Getulio Vargas in 1943, and is based on Mussolini's Charter of Labour!
It must be an unusual situation, having a Vice-President from a completely different party to the President. Normally I assume they would campaign together and from the same fund if they were from the same party. Did Temer do much campaigning of his own? I'm not sure what message he would give, considering he was effectively campaigning for Rousseff to be president; his own party's policies or the PT's?
@TH
I know why she was impeached, and I think the trial on campaign funding was also politically motivated. But that wasn't what I was asking. IMO pretty nearly all politicians in Brazil are guilty of taking bribes to fund their campaigns, including Dilma, Lula and Temer.
I don't believe Rousseff took any money for herself, but she was chairman at Petrobras before becoming President so she could hardly have missed what was going on. As for the others, I will wait and see what evidence comes out.
And about the insults, I think they are equally pointless on both sides, but you are the only one who complains about ad homs. Also only one of you has said such things to me, and it wasn't Jack, so I suspect if you stop using them then he will too.
DemonTree
Jun 30th, 2017 - 12:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Whether Dilma knew or not is speculative as we don’t know. What I do know is there were many politicians that were not in her party or allied.
While they didn’t agree with her policies endorsed her as being totally reputable.
He has been abusing myself other posters for years. Just do a search on Mercopress for the word ’twat’ for example , guess who comes up over and over again. That is just using one abusive word. So don’t abase me for minimalist responses. If I’ve used ad hominem against you then show me where so I can see it in context.
@DT
Jun 30th, 2017 - 06:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Absurd, but no surprise given that the labour laws haven’t been modernized in decades, so those who receive immoral contributions are doing their best to block the reforms. Getulio, considered ‘father’ of the worker’s rights in Brazil, signed the CLT (consolidation of labour laws) into law in 1943…but 75 years later, with only a few modifications, it is obsolete. Temer’s trying to make it more flexible, to better attend worker revindications and to make hiring / firing less bureaucratic / less burdensome…in that way, encouraging employers to open up more jobs.
Although Temer was Dilma’s VP, they did not get along too well, and over time this became more apparent. The two parties arranged their campaign funds separately, although probably from the same sources, but it was rare to see them campaign together. As I’ve mentioned before, the VP, besides assuming a relatively discreet role in the campaign, is not who drives the voters.
There is no proof, up to now, that Dilma took money for herself, but that she was aware of illegal contributions to the party, and that she turned a blind eye to unsavoury practices in PB, there is no doubt. But since being a sloppy CEO is not a punishable crime, she’ll probably get away with it. Her awareness of such facts is more than speculative, but people will believe what they will.
While budget shenanigans went on in most presidencies, only hers reached such absurd levels, to the point of ruining the economy and bankrupting the government.
Regarding the insults, am not going to research posts of two years ago (btw, think I’ve only been on MP since Dec 2014, so how have I ‘abused’ posters for ‘years’ ?) and I may be mistaken but I believe what first made me insult TH was the fact that when I described what I had seen during the military regime, he insisted I was a liar and a fascist ; why, presumably due to all his arrogance and his belief that only his version of events was correct (despite never having lived here).
@JB
Jul 01st, 2017 - 12:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah, after 75 years it's unsurprising the laws need updating. Not all of the changes may be beneficial, but I'm guessing most of the fuss is being created by the unions just because of that one law. Perhaps that is why Lula didn't want to do it, because he relied on the support of the unions?
If hiring and firing is made easier, what you might see is more employees moving into the formal sector, which would be an improvement since informal workers have no protections at all. Still it's a bit of a double edged sword, this sort of reform often creates more jobs at the expense of lower salaries and less security for those in work.
I'd say Dilma not taking any money for herself makes her one of the most honest politicians in Brazil. Shame she was such a bad president.
I googled you and the earliest post I could find was Jan 2014, and in February you got into a fight with some poster called Stevie, who accused you of being a 'monoligual' expat. So, you have been insulting people on here for 3 years now. ;) You're not king of the twats though, that honour goes to ChrisR wherever he has got to.
Jack Bauer
Jul 01st, 2017 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse 0“he insisted I was a liar and a fascist; why, presumably due to all his arrogance and his belief that only his version of events was correct (despite never having lived here).”
Thanks for providing the confirmation of all of those facts, truths a bitch isn’t it?
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
12 Jack Bauer; “..'Military dictatorship', ..history is showing,.. that it was good for Brazil
Brazil supportive of Mercosur ...
14 Jack Bauer; ”.....but there is still one thing that can save Brazil...the Military..
Brazil waiting for 50bn dollars …
50 Jack Bauer; “Military taking over again, ….. they did it to prevent Brazil from being handed over to the communists. ... the Military , I hope, would be there again to save Brazil
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
DemonTree
“He has been abusing myself other posters for years. Just do a search on Mercopress for the word ’twat’ “
May 4, 2016, was the first of six occasions on the first page of the search, So it is fair to say it is commonplace in his posts.
@DT
Jul 01st, 2017 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have no idea how far Lula would’ve gone to modernize labour laws, but for sure he’d never cut off the unions’ immoral funding, 'cause that’s his origin, sponging off the contributions of others.
Some labour laws are too rigid, for both sides. Exs: employees must take their 30 day vacation in one go, but many would prefer to take, say 2 x 15 days or 3 x 10 days; employers, especially with rgds to blue-collar workers, rejected it as it could complicate shifts, but for white-collar workers it was OK, depending on your position. Costs to fire someone are absurdly expensive, making employers reluctant to hire unless they need to. Changing the law could, as you say, bring informal workers in from the cold, where they’d contribute and gain basic rights (pensions, unemployment benefits).
Re Dilma, I said no proof had been found - yet ; and the investigations, so far, have only scratched the surface.
3 ‘n 1/2 years sounds reasonable…and yes, I did insult a few posters, including “Stevie”, who drove people nuts with his stupid, nonsensical posts. There were others, too. Some returned the ‘favour’, which to me was water off a duck’s back, but TH, out the blue, declared himself the expert on Brazilian law / politics…don’t have time for 99% of his rubbish (mostly irrelevant quotes, and citations of int’l law), as if it were proof in the cases being discussed. While I respect people’s right to their “own opinion”, I didn’t appreciate TH’s self-righteous attitude…which, AFAIC was anything but an opinion. When he called me a liar, he opened the door.
Did some quick digging and found some of his common comments, “you are required to meet yr burden of proof”, I have shown you the opinion of a neutral expert”, “by failing to meet your obligation as the asserter”, “I can simply state your claim is untrue”, “why don’t you go and f**k yourself, as I don’t take directions from you” (to someone else), which prove his arrogance...as does his 'weepy', above post.
Just some of the record of personal abuses through childish rancors. By an individual who hides behind the alias of Jack Bauer.
Jul 01st, 2017 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Desperate for funds Rousseff …
“after putting on your lingerie to go to bed at night, with your inflatable doll “Long Dong Silver””
Unemployment in recession-hit Brazil ..
“your inflatable dolls never complain when you can't get the wrinkes(sic) out of your limp noodle,”
Confirmed: Brazil faces its worst…
“you got your inflatable doll out of the closet and spanked the monkey”
“When he called me a liar, he opened the door.”
You have confirmed time and time again your soubriquet ‘Proof less & Truth less’
But, it’s perfectly understandable why you would get such behaviour from an acknowledged fascist.
By what you call a “self-righteous attitude…” you mean irrefutable truths that you have been unable to overcome
@JB
Jul 01st, 2017 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It sounds like there are a lot of outdated laws, and it's a shame the PT didn't look at helping the workers more indirectly when they were in power. Taxes, tariffs etc not only affect the economy but also the distribution of wealth, and could be used to improve it without giving any handouts.
I find it plausible that Dilma was not stealing for herself. Some people are not interested in money as long as they have enough to be comfortable, and also she was in a position to create obstacles for the lava jato investigation, and mostly she did not do so.
About you and TH, I see that I should not have said anything, as you clearly have a long history of insulting each other. I shouldn't laugh at your early threads, but I am anyway.
@DT
Jul 02nd, 2017 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In a nutshell, Lula 'could' have done a lot, but didn't. Instead he got into bed with the 'elite' and we all know how that ended.
Going back to Dilma, she may not have stolen for “herself”, in the strict sense of the word, however, a highly-suspicious fact - that the offspring of several high-ranking 'petistas' (including Lula's sons/Dilma's daughter), soon after opening up their own businesses, became millionaires overnight - caught the attention of the press, and then of the federal police, as it seems that their astounding 'talent' for making money was aided by huge, virtually interest-free loans from the BNDES, and/or “financing” from “daddy’s” (or “mummy's”) campaign contributors, out of the ‘goodness of their heart.’
True, Dilma didn't do much in the way of trying to block the advance of the 'lavajato', at least not to protect herself, probably because she felt relatively confident she had done nothing wrong in comparison to those around her. She had little reason to fight the 'Lavajato', and her (failed) attempt to appoint Lula as her Cabinet Minister (to give him immunity from prosecution by Moro) was due to pressure from Lula himself.
Her biggest crime - since she can't be punished for incompetence - was probably to turn a blind eye to what went on around her, but I'm quite prepared to believe this was due mainly to Lula's influence over her.
As far as I'm concerned, I should probably thank you for having raised the subject of the feud with TH, in that it has been made clear, once again, and even after having the less-noble moments highlighted, he refuses to step down off his pedestal.
Jack Bauer
Jul 02nd, 2017 - 08:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I should probably thank you for having raised the subject of the feud with TH, in that it has been made clear, once again,” “When he called me a liar, he opened the door.” “he insisted I was a liar and a fascist “ Which you have confirmed http://en.mercopress.com/2017/06/27/brazil-janot-files-formal-corruption-charges-against-temer/comments#comment469436
Its further confirmed by your failure to provide any proof of any claim you’ve ever given. Stating they are simply opinions, even though you continually represent them as facts. Given that :
“Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; States of Affairs; First published Tue Mar 27, 2012
Philosophers connect sentences with various items, such as thoughts, facts and states of affairs. THOUGHTS ARE EITHER TRUE OR FALSE IN AN ABSOLUTE SENSE, NEVER BOTH OR NEITHER.
plato.stanford.edu/entries/states-of-affairs/
Which prior to that states,, they're only true or false so it doesn't comply with the analogy of being unprovable, as you are attempting to foist on them.
So if its unproven it must false, according to the accepted criteria and therefore a lie, since its impossible to be anything else, as it can never be “both or neither..”
Therefore confirming your deserved ‘handle’ of ‘Proof less & Truth less’.
@TH
Jul 02nd, 2017 - 10:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0bla,bla,bla...SOS...you just can't help yourself, can you ?
@JB
Jul 02nd, 2017 - 11:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lula did change some things, but he evidently did not address the rampant corruption, which has proved to be such a problem. I guess there is often a problem in politics, that someone who wants to make a difference has to work with the existing system, and ends up becoming part of it.
I didn't know about the PT offspring, but sadly I'm not surprised. At least Dilma did one thing for her country then, as probably most other presidents would have blocked the Lavajato investigation. Now we just have to hope that things will be better in the future, and the predictions of :o)) do not come true.
@TH
You really need to stop treating this website as if it were a court of law. We are having a discussion, not trying to decide someone's guilt or innocence. The rules are not the same.
Perhaps if I write it on a nice official looking website you will actually believe me?
DemonTree
Jul 03rd, 2017 - 04:12 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You really need to stop … We are having a discussion,”
What happened did somebody die and make you God? Firstly, this is a public forum. Secondly, if you or any one else thinks you’re going to impugn me by making untrue statements . Well, fuckthem and the horse they rode into town on, because I will defend myself ably. As I will enjoy my right to free speech, as long as what I say is true. Along with its secondary ’holy-cow’ of individual rights.
Jack Bauer
“bla,bla,bla..” Guess you can’t do anything else. So thanks for the confirmation of my last post that all i’s are dotted and the t’s are crossed.
No TH. It's just advice to you from an ordinary, definitely non-godly person, if you would like to have more productive discussions instead of fighting with people all the time. You are perfectly free to ignore it, and I expect that you will.
Jul 03rd, 2017 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0@DT
Jul 03rd, 2017 - 04:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What happened did somebody die and make you God?”, is so Terry.....DT, don't you know that only TH can be considered God ? lol...
“if you or any one else thinks you’re going to impugn me by making untrue statements . Well, fuckthem and the horse they rode into town on”, proves his arrogance is still in top speed and that he's as THick as two short planks.
If it weren't so hilarious, it would be tragic
Jack Bauer
Jul 03rd, 2017 - 05:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“He's as THick as two short planks.” But smart enough to enough reveal what a complete and utter fraud you are. Boy! It must rankle when you pontificate and rant I disclose what an utter BS’er you are. So laugh it up as you have been ‘outed’.
“Outed” ??? ha,ha,ha.....don't forget to take your pills.
Jul 03rd, 2017 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Jack Bauer
Jul 03rd, 2017 - 10:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“he insisted I was a liar and a fascist”
Condemned out of your own mouth, thanks for yet another confirmation,’outed.’
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
12 Jack Bauer; “..'Military dictatorship', ..history is showing,.. that it was good for Brazil
Brazil supportive of Mercosur ...
14 Jack Bauer; ”.....but there is still one thing that can save Brazil...the Military..
Brazil waiting for 50bn dollars …
50 Jack Bauer; “Military taking over again, ….. they did it to prevent Brazil from being handed over to the communists. ... the Military , I hope, would be there again to save Brazil
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
15 Jack Bauer; “..Am pretty sure that military are accompanying all this … I hope they DO take over...”
http://en.mercopress.com/2017/06/27/brazil-janot-files-formal-corruption-charges-against-temer/comments#comment469436
Hold On PLEASE: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-18/lies-videotapes-and-recession-dash-recovery-hopes-in-brazil
Jul 04th, 2017 - 11:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0@:o))
Jul 04th, 2017 - 03:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Você não acha que o retrato pintado por esse jornalista é demasiado pessimista ? está certo que as coisas estão longes de estarem andando às mil maravilhas, mas porque ele não analisa também, como provavelmente seria se a Dilma não tivesse sido removida ? Qualquer pessoa, mesmo com um cérebro do tamanho de um feijão, deveria saber que antes da situação melhorar, precisa parar de piorar....e desta vez, o estrago feito pelo PT, não é apenas uma pequena crise passageira.
Hi, Jack!
Jul 05th, 2017 - 01:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Bloomberg is a responsible source and they do have a point of view and I also understand yours.
REF: “antes da situação melhorar, precisa parar de piorar....e desta vez, o estrago feito pelo PT, não é apenas uma pequena crise passageira”:
In a different form of expression, you agree with them as well!
The 40 - FORTY! - Political Parties are so thoroughly corrupt [you too have observed this!]; that a way to SOME form of; recovery is an elusive & an uphill task!
@:o))
Jul 05th, 2017 - 05:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Guess so...
And it begins like THIS: https://scontent.fplu4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/270089_144837475591198_7516582_n.jpg?oh=b9246dd9b151f4b1dee2a65a26feae52&oe=5A07763F
Jul 06th, 2017 - 11:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0That's about the size of it...
Jul 06th, 2017 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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