MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Argentina posts a primary fiscal deficit of 1.5% of GDP
Argentina posted a primary fiscal deficit of 144 billion pesos (US$8.4 billion), or 1.5% of GDP in the first half of 2017, Treasury Minister Nicolas Dujovne said on Wednesday, beating the government target for a gap of 2% of GDP. The primary fiscal deficit was 103 billion pesos in the second quarter, compared with 41 billion pesos in the first quarter. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesMeanwhile, domestic consumption continues to fall in Argentina. People are buying less and less essential things such as milk.
Jul 21st, 2017 - 04:17 pm - Link - Report abuse -4But let's not worry about such unimportant things. Luxury car sales are on the raise.
EM
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 09:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0...and to take everyone's mind off of these problems why doesn't the government of Macri focus a lot of resources on the pursuit of trying to take control of the Falkland Islands? That's what CFK did and look how much better things were when you all knew you were on the cusp of realising that goal.
Chuckle chuckle.
Reekie persists in his clown-like assertion that present conditions are the sole responsibility of the present government. How easy it is to demonstrate otherwise. It is axiomatic that the long shadow of past peronismo continues to prejudice and hamper development of the country.
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 03:32 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Consider the expropriations that CFK conducted, and how those came back to bite the country. Take the Aerolineas expropriation, also known as “theft” since CFK was, above all else, a thief. CFK famously (and insultingly) paid “one peso.” The gap-toothed populist choripaneros howled with delight. It has now returned to haunt them, though they fail to understand why they are out of work now. The Centro Internacional de Arreglo de Diferencias relativas a Inversiones (Ciadi), to which Argentina subscribes, has fined Argentina US$320 millions - plus big interest - for that expropriation. No doubt the other considerable expensive evils of the CFK regime will continue to cost Argentina in the future.
ML
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 05:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Not only would it seem that Macri is doing everything right to turn it all around but he also realises that the Falklands pursuit is a pointless one apart from the warm feeling it gives some otherwise low self-esteem working class people.
Here is another point that Reekie doesn't seem to grasp about the Peronista debts now coming due. Those debts have to be paid in some fashion, and since the country is mired in hopeless deficit spending habits, additional loans seem to be the order of the day. The country certainly isn't getting any more productive or competitive in any meaningful way, and taxation in Argentina is already among the highest in the hemisphere, so Macri can't count on conventional revenue.
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +1That recent US$320 millions fine against Argentina for the theft of Aerolineas follows a similar CIADI decision for another fine against Argentina, of US$384 million, for improper (read: “Kirchnerist”) contractual matters involving Aguas Argentinas. (Aguas Argentinas, Aerolineas Argentinas..... seems to be a pattern here). Payment of these fines reflects damages produced by Peronist Argentina against the French company Suez and others. And more adverse decisions are in the pipeline.
Still, the average argie in the street can't understand why the country has to actually pay all these debts.
ML
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 04:18 pm - Link - Report abuse -4What the Argenines can't understand is why the economy is faring so badly after a year and a half of Joyful Revolution.
And this happening in an election year that will be a test for Macri and his team of CEOs, touted as the “best team of the last 50 years.”
An election in which a supposedly worn-out, judicially harassed former president is leading in the polls. Come on Marti...where do you really live? In the moon?
EM
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Surely anybody who understands how much debt Crissy got Argentina in knows it won't all turn around in 18 months.
There are now more and more adverse judicial decisions that are essentially multi-million-dollar Peronist-era debts coming due - debts that will be paid by Argentina for decades to come. Kircherist expropriation crimes have been prosecuted and the country is being punished for those crimes. And we have not seen the end of it.
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse +2The thievery, lawlessness, and chicanery of the Kirchner regime are being exposed every week, and even more new bills are mounting as more Kirchnerists are sent to jail. De Vido is looking at a possible 11 years in prison. Even the Kirchner's accountant has been arrested and sent to jail.
“Por la inmensa torpeza y arrogancia que el gobierno anterior tuvo con Aerolíneas el país fue condenado a pagar US$320 millones más intereses” (Due to the ineptitude and arrogance the previous government showed with Aerolineas Argentinas, the country is obligated to pay US$320 million plus interest).
That about sums up the nature of Kirchnerism.
Reekie can't understand how long these negative impacts will continue to hound the country. How the neglect of the Kirchner years in everything from infrastructure to tax reform has made the country unproductive and uncompetitive - not to mention overwhelmingly corrupt and dysfunctional. A sure formula for increasing unemployment, high inflation, and decay.
But then, so long as there are Argentines running this country, and criminals such as the former presidenta and her minions trying to hide from prosecution in the congress - as is the Argentine way - we can continue to enjoy the daily circus of self-destructive, Third- World mafia behaviour.
JB
Jul 24th, 2017 - 04:22 am - Link - Report abuse -4Are you kidding me?
Cristina left a manageable debt that Macri has “managed” to increase exponentially, faster than any previous government including Videla's dictatorship.
In fact, the Macri government is surviving exclusively on borrowed funds, while businesses are closing down and laying off thousands of employees, while consumption drops, the US dollar has started going up faster and the government still lives in a bubble of its own.
Meanwhile, Martillazo is the lone guy still talking about the “heavy inheritance,” something not even Macri talks so much anymore.
And again--nobody is asking Macri to make a Switzerland style of country in 18 months--what Argentines are asking is a stop to the quick decline in living conditions.
There is a reason Cristina has good chances to win a Senate seat in October--it's because citizens are beginning to understand that the medicine they chose is going to kill the patient.
Massot are you serious, Kirchner defaulted on a debt that had already been defaulted upon. Basically the debt had been cut by 90% by the creditors and she defaulted on the balance. The Kirchner medicine will result in a long slow painful death for the patient. Argentina will follow Venzuela.
Jul 24th, 2017 - 04:54 am - Link - Report abuse +2Among the many things that Reekie is confused about is the “manageable debt” he thinks was left by CFK. The peroncho way of looking at “manageable debt” is to ignore the bulk of if, and pretend that the amount of debt is much lower than it is. That includes not only the billions in debt to the hedge funds the government tried to ignore (which still has not be successfully concluded) but also the matters of theft of industries through executive banditry and other legerdemain, such as the expropriations of various foreign-owned industries ( classic peronist thievery) and though the adverse decisions come during the Macri government, the source of the debt is undeniably from the Kirchner regime.
Jul 24th, 2017 - 01:59 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Reekie fails to understand such simple matters. And there are further “debts” that need to be paid now, in the form of deferred maintenance and investment in national infrastructure, which in many areas has decayed and left the country is a worse state of non-competitiveness. In fact, Reekie completely fails to grasp why the country is unproductive and non-competitive.
The condition in Argentina today that results in massive deficit spending is the direct result of the Kirchner years, and attempts to reduce government spending are met with legions of peronist hooligans rioting in the streets -- the same hooligans now being credited with convincing Chinese investors to leave the country and take their several thousand jobs with them.
Don't ever let Reekie try to balance your accounts, unless prison and bankruptcy are your objectives.
Lone ranger Martillazo keeps trying to blame former president Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner for the disastrous economic policies of the current government headed by Mauricio Macri.
Jul 24th, 2017 - 06:45 pm - Link - Report abuse -4Macri, who has been managing the country since early 2015, has presided over a worsening of the economy in all fronts.
Not a single Argentine believed the country was going to become an oasis of prosperity in 18 months. However, they were hoping to at keep the quality of life they had before Macri came on board, with perhaps some steps taken in the right direction. No such luck.
Marti, in some of his postings, predicts Argentina is walking towards another serious crisis. However, he proposes that such failures are all but a consequence of the “Kirchner years” and “peronist hooligans” on the streets.
Of course, this thesis would that Macri was unable to do anything with the Argentine economy during 18 months of government which would be inaccurate. In fact, thanks to an opposition in disarray and smart moves, Macri was able to implement all the economic measures he wanted, such as paying back the vultures and then massively borrowing to keep the lights on.
For those wanting to have a glimpse of an understanding of how this all has worked out, there is a summary analysis that comes from a critical analysis of the Kirchner government but exposes “Macri’s Disappointing First Year in Argentina.”
Otherwise you may keep blaming the victim--the 51 per cent of voters who believed Macri's empty promises.
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/argentina-macri-economic-policy-debt-by-martin-guzman-2017-04
Somebody please describe to Reekie in simple terms the concept of momentum. How a body of incorrigible peronist evil in motion tends to remain in motion until successfully acted upon by overwhelming corrective forces for an extended period of time. How the cancerous peroncho genes that infect the argie race can not be bred out of predominance for many generations, if ever. How peronism is stuck in the 1950s and the rest of the (serious) world marches on in another direction.
Jul 24th, 2017 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Maybe Reekie can tell us why the Chinese are pulling out of southern Argentina and taking thousands of jobs with them. Hint: it has a lot to do with Peroncho hooligans. There may be a new guy in the Pink House, but it's the same criminals that control the barricades and keep new investment from being successful here.
EM
Jul 24th, 2017 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Do you even acknowledge, for example, the money owed to the hedge funds or do you simply honestly believe Crissy was acting correctly by just refusing to pay the holdouts? The likes of Singer and others?
If it's the latter then it is pointless going in the ring with you. You are simply fooling yourself and I don't need to contribute to that.
The hedge funds and the thousands of other holders of those bonds had completely legitimate cases, and their legitimacy was recognised time and time again in the jurisdiction that Argentina itself had selected (that is, New York law).
Jul 25th, 2017 - 12:06 am - Link - Report abuse +2CFK played the populist cards for all they were worth, trying to convince the intellectually deficient that Argentina would somehow surrender its “sovereignty” if it paid its debts. Huh?
And remember that the majority of the people affected were not the hedge fund owners but the small-holders, citizens who had invested their savings in trusting that the Argentine government would honour their obligations. I don't know how they could have been so foolish, but thousands of Argentines and EU citizens did invest their retirement monies in those defaulted bonds.
What is so peronist and thus criminal about the whole default treatment is that the Kirchners did not “negotiate” with bondholders but instead dictated - that is dictated as dictators do - how the country would violate the terms of its contracts in its relationships with investors. In doing so, CFK might as well have tried to invade the Falklands, since her efforts got the secuaces dancing in the plazoletas for a while for their apparent viveza criolla chicanery.
But it was all for naught and led to unintended damage to the country. Nobody would loan Argentina any real money for less than about 15 percent, and the country stagnated. The amount of the default debt during the Kirchner years skyrocketed with accumulating interest, and the world (or some of the world) learned that an Argentine contract is of no value, that their bonds will be forever considered junk by the cognoscenti, that Argentina will pay double the interest rates offered to the serious nations.
We see that the current government hasn't settled with all of the bondholders even today.
How anyone can be so foolish as to loan money to Argentina is one of the mysteries of the universe.
The fact that Kamerad/Komrade Rique defended all this when it was going on merely underlines what a chantapufi he really is...
Jul 25th, 2017 - 12:18 am - Link - Report abuse +1The ease with which so many argentines of diminished capacity like reekie are lured into peronism and other criminal practices, and their unwavering worship of the legions of the conspicuously corrupt, illustrate why this country will remain a Third-World backwater for all time, plus ten years.
Jul 25th, 2017 - 04:15 am - Link - Report abuse +1But today, the peso is not doing well here. It just hit over 18 to the dollar in street trading. Methinks it will be at 20 by Boxing Day, with inflation for the year over 24 percent. Stay tuned.
@ML
Jul 25th, 2017 - 02:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“What is so peronist and thus criminal about the whole default treatment is that the Kirchners did not “negotiate” with bondholders but instead dictated - that is dictated as dictators do - how the country would violate the terms of its contracts in its relationships with investors.”
Evidently this is not true, as the bondholders had the choice of whether to accept the new terms in two rounds of restructuring. The ones who refused were the vulture funds who had bought the debt cheap and were gambling that it would be repaid in full.
Certainly none of those funds are small investors, nor are they contributing to making any country more productive or competitive; quite the reverse.
And I would have thought you'd be happy for no one to lend Argentina any money, as you think they are so likely to default. As for the country stagnating, after collapsing during the default the economy grew strongly for many years, showing that international finance is not always necessary.
No, DL, you need to study the history here, and not the argie koolaid, and your response is full of errors and misconceptions consistent with pro-Argentina false reporting. But your support for criminal Argentine behaviour is predictable. The Kirchners dictated the terms of the “restructuring” - either take a massive haircut or never get nothing. That is quite different from the negotiation provided for in Collective Action Clauses. Those tens of thousands of bondholders unable or unwilling to take on Argentina through the courts elected to take pennies on their dollars, and many died poorer while awaiting court resolutions. Argentina's actions were entirely unlawful. The hedge funds initially paid nearly par for their first portions of those bonds even before the default, something conveniently forgotten in Argentine propaganda. Even now many of the smaller funds that represent those thousands of individual investors are trying to get the argie government to pay. It was only due to the ability of the principal hedge funds to take on Argentina in the courts and elsewhere, and have the legal issues properly resolved, that the matter was brought to justice and Argentina was obligated to meet its obligations.
Jul 25th, 2017 - 02:30 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@ML
Jul 25th, 2017 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Where did I say I supported Argentina's behaviour? However, there was nothing unlawful about the initial default. The part the New York court ruled was illegal was paying some bondholders (those who renegotiated), but not others (the holdouts), something Argentina's lawyers really should have anticipated. And according to the WSJ, the hedge funds made up to 900% of their original investment, so they evidently did not buy the bonds at par. One of the biggest, Elliott Management Corporation made 392% of its investment and the only contribution they have made to the wider economy was employing a lot of lawyers. They didn't help the remainder of the bond-holders who were willing to settle either, as the lawsuits delayed then receiving their payments. I think CFK's actions WRT them were foolish, but the hedge funds were reprehensible.
Everything I know about the default comes from British and US media, which are unlikely to be pro-Argentina. However it appears there was some negotiation in the initial restructuring, and likely in the recent deals with the hold-outs too.
Do you know how many tens of thousands of investors who were adversely affected by Argentina's stiffing their creditors? Of course you don't. But you can work on that ignorance by starting here: “Attorneys representing Italian bondholders holding more than $1 billion in claims related to defaulted Argentine debt ....victory for tens of thousands of individual Italian bondholders and demonstrates that Argentina must confront its violations of fundamental investment protections...the tribunal ruled that the dispute ”[did] not derive from the mere fact that Argentina failed to perform its payment obligations under the bonds but from the fact that it intervened as a sovereign by virtue of its state power to modify its payment obligations towards its creditors.” (ergo, unlawfully).
Jul 25th, 2017 - 11:46 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Why are the hedge funds reprehensible? They operate within the law and create a secondary market for bonds. What is reprehensible was Argentina's actions at every turn, which were also largely illegal. The cram-down “restructuring” violated the law that governed the bonds and in this Argentina acted not only in bad faith but illegally. Like Reekie, you're completely out of your depth in this area and fail to even acknowledge the extensive litigation and findings over a period of several years.
Do you know how much the hedge funds actually paid for these bonds? Of course you don't. If you knew the actual history of these events you would know that their initial purchases were very close to par, and that later the funds paid more to bondholders than Argentina was paying their stiffed creditors. Now who is the more reprehensible?
The sources you cited have no insight other than wild, politically-inspired speculation into what the hedge funds paid for which bonds. Saying 900 percent of their original investment is also such speculation since the costs and term are unknown. Spend US$1 billion in original investment, 500 million in litigation over 15 years and what do you make?
Argentina didn't default because they wanted to. Unlike Greece they didn't have the EU to bail them out; they couldn't pay their debts. It was very unfortunate for the original holders of those bonds, but it is a risk you take by investing in a developing country, and they generally offer higher interest to compensate.
Jul 26th, 2017 - 12:58 am - Link - Report abuse -2Sure the hedge funds operate within the law. What does that have to do with whether they are reprehensible or not? There were other groups buying up bonds who were willing to settle for reasonable terms, and they provide a service to those who need their money back quickly. The vulture funds not so much. While any sensible bankruptcy laws will try to give all the creditors a fair share of the assets, the vulture funds rely on the other creditors agreeing to the haircut in order to get a better deal themselves. And as I mentioned, they actively screwed over the other creditors by blocking payments to them. As well as this they have made future debt restructuring for other countries more difficult by giving everyone an incentive not to settle, thus prolonging the process to nobody's benefit.
If you know how much the hedge funds paid then post a link. Every article I have seen said it was a small fraction of the face value, and if you don't trust the Wall Street Journal then I doubt you will believe any other source I can find.
“Spend US$1 billion in original investment, 500 million in litigation over 15 years and what do you make?”
A lot of lawyers very rich? What you don't make is anything productive or useful, which that 500 million certainly could have done if invested elsewhere. But if they aren't making considerably more than US$1.5bm then it implies they foolishly wasted everyone's time and money by litigating and would have been better off accepting the restructuring at the start.
@DT
Jul 27th, 2017 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse -3You make a sensible and balanced argument. The vultures are not called vultures for nothing. They shamelessly prey on some of the world's poorest countries and also did on Argentina--always buying bonds considered junk when those countries' economies are rock-bottom and then suing to get 100 per cent of the bonds' nominal value when the countries are in some sort of recovery.
Our distinguished commentator Marti shows his ethics when he comes here to publicly endorse these aberrant practices.
“Why are the hedge funds reprehensible?” innocently asks Marti, seemingly very worried about those poor Italian pensioners.
The most interesting fact is, we are right now witnessing the genesis of another monstrous economical crisis in Argentina at the hands of a runaway government that is borrowing--in unsustainable fashion--like there is no tomorrow.
And so, when the crisis finally unfolds, Marti and others of the same ilk will start sternly admonishing the “Argies” (no Macri will be blamed on this) for spending borrowed money so recklessly etc.
Make no mistake: it's not the Argentines who are riding the “bicicleta financiera” at full speed to the cliff while making millions (for them) in the process--it's those who got the power thanks to voters who trusted the false promises that Macri piled up in front of them--with a helpful push from judge Griesa and the U.S. Supreme Court.
We would have expected Reekie and DT to promote the Argentine governments' perennial and reprehensible practices cheating of tens of thousands of people, which the principal courts having jurisdiction determined at every major turn to be, beyond being merely despicable, wholly unlawful as well.
Jul 27th, 2017 - 12:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If I am not mistaken, beyond those 50,000 Italian retirees and other investors, there is a like number of Argentines that Reekie cares nothing about, who were also cheated but in a worse manner, bringing that number to probably well over 100,000 people who got the sort of Mafia-like shaft that put Argentina on the map. Many of them were offered better terms for their worthless bonds by the hedge funds than by the Argentine government itself. But it took some pressure by the hedge funds to bring Argentina to justice, after the country unsurprisingly wrapped itself in contempt of court -- the very court that Argentina itself selected. The experience should remind the sentient of the utter worthlessness of Argentina's contracts and respect for the law. The more recent court condemnations affecting Argentina for its continuing between-default lawlessness during the CFK regime, and the hundreds of millions of dollars in fines and assessments now coming due, remind us of the country's true thieving nature. Small wonder that the peronist criminals responsible for the worst of this are attempting to hide from prosecution and responsibility by taking seats in that most delinquent body, the Argentine congress.
Argentina's habit of recurring default is the classic intersection of where conspicuous incompetence meets inveterate criminality. Default for Argentina, and theft from its citizen-creditors, is one of its principal national sports, right after football and burglary.
Marti, your arguments are not just wrong but also irrelevant to the issue at hand. Far from promoting future defaults, Enrique has said multiple times on here that he is opposed to Macri's current massive borrowing exactly because it may lead to a repeat of the crisis. Perhaps you should try actually reading his posts?
Jul 27th, 2017 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nor is it relevant to the issue of the vulture funds whether Argentina acted legally or morally towards the original bond holders, or whether Enrique or me care about them or not (and neither of us has said that we don't).
My argument is that the vulture funds have benefited no one but themselves, that they do nothing productive or useful for the economy - that they have if anything impeded the economic development of Argentina similarly to your favourite Peronist unions - and that they have made it harder for other countries in future to resolve their own defaults. You haven't addressed any of these. You haven't even posted any figures showing how much the hedge funds paid on average for their bonds. Until you do, I see no reason to believe what you say about it.
Well. This discussion has served some purpose, that is to show where the commentator nicknamed Marti Llazo places himself.
Jul 27th, 2017 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0He has made abundantly clear that he finds nothing wrong about the predatory tactics of hedge funds appropriately named “vulture funds,” while not hesitating to portray a whole country, its institutions and political parties as a band of criminals. Knowing the struggles my home country has been going through, I find such opinions despicable.
Of course, ML expects to find some sympathies in this particular forum, however I expect at least some to be intellectually honest and understand the difference between what the general population does and what is perpetrated by a group of politicians that came into power only by their capacity to trick the electors.
For anybody interested in finding out about the vultures' financial tactics (that excludes Marti of course) I suggest the following article:
https://qz.com/707165/wall-streets-vulture-hedge-funds-are-making-a-killing-by-undermining-the-global-economy/
Any position that describes investors as “vulture funds” has long ago surrendered any pretense of understanding or objectivity. Your reliance on consumer-grade (nonprofessional) parroting of populist propaganda put out by Argentina and their teary-eyed apologists, rather than findings of the courts, speaks volumes about your ability to seek something close to reliable sources.
Jul 27th, 2017 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -2If there is any party here that should be considered despicable, it is unquestionably the series of Argentine governments whose fundamental solution for every occasion is theft - theft by any other name. And the Kirchners are undeniably the poster-children for this sort of theft.
Here are some new numbers to chew on: the number of people that the Argentine government unlawfully cheated in this shameful charade. At the time of the default, over 40 percent of Argentina's debt was held by small investors, typically purchased through small fund organisations. This included about 450,000 Italians (only about 50,000 of these remained as holdouts by about 2011, when court judgments against Argentina confirmed the country's unlawful practices in their shady “haircut” cram-downs. There were also an additional 150,000 or so other Europeans, and over 30,000 Japanese investors --- all cheated out of their savings and investments by a corrupt Argentina that characteristically refused to pay its obligations, refused to even negotiate with creditors, and refused to conform to court orders detailing its many crimes and abuses.
In 2012, when the court having jurisdiction made the award against Argentina, that it was obligated to pay the remaining holdouts, the bill was about US$1.3 billion. Kirchner nonpayment populism, at the expense of the country's best interests, caused that amount to rise in 2015 to about US$15 billion owed on just the holdout case. Recent court decisions concerning other unlawful Argentine expropriations increased national debt by another half-billion or so.
Reekie,
Jul 27th, 2017 - 06:07 pm - Link - Report abuse -1“Meanwhile, domestic consumption continues to fall in Argentina. People are buying less and less essential things such as milk.”
And yet...
”The economy does show to be in an ascending curve. The output grew by 0.6 percent compared to April, and by 1 percent during the first five months of the year. “The output is already 0.7 percent above December 2015 levels,” sources from the Treasury Ministry led by Nicolás Dujovne told La Nación.
The sectors that boosted the growth were the following: retail (4.5), agribusinesses (3.3), transportation and communications (5.4), real estate (3) and industry (2.5). The construction sector gets a special mention as it grew by 9.3 percent this month boosted by, among others, the public sector. In fact, the Institute of Statistics and Register of the Construction Industry informed the press yesterday that the sector added 10,000 jobs in May.“
http://www.thebubble.com/indec-argentinas-economy-grew-by-3-3-percent-in-may/
You say ”domestic consumption continues to fall in Argentina” while INDEC shows a 4.5% increase in retail sales. Are you being inventive with your fake facts again?
Marti, I see you are still completely unable to address my arguments. Let's suppose you are right and Argentina's actions were both illegal and immoral. That doesn't make the actions of the hedge funds better by even one iota.
Jul 27th, 2017 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You decry 'consumer-grade' reporting, but have presented nothing to counter it. Unlike you, the article Enrique linked to does give an average price paid by one of the vulture funds: 27%, less than Argentina offered in its debt restructuring. It also explains better than I could why they are harmful for the global economy.
As for the default, I will note that before it happened Argentina was following the advice of the IMF, controlled by your 'civilised countries'. For all their faults, the Kirchners did not manage to inflict anything nearly as disastrous on their country. Macri, with his massive external borrowing, has far more potential to do so.
Tree, that you do not agree with an industry, say perhaps the alcoholic beverage industry, on the basis of your personal revulsion, does provide a legal basis for behaving unlawfully towards such an industry, such as a failure to honour contracts.
Jul 28th, 2017 - 12:22 am - Link - Report abuse -1That you (and evidently a few others) cannot understand or appreciate the role of hedge funds and Fernet producers is not something that can be cured short of extensive therapy and intellectual rehabilitation .
But there are just so many reasons why Argentina continues to fail, and an unwillingness to honour their legal obligations is just a part of it. Consider also the recent media reports that Argentina is among the absolute worst in the world in terms of lack of openness of the national economy. (Press note: “ La Argentina se ubica entre las economías más cerradas del mundo”). The comments suggest some caveats but it's worth thinking about -- why does Argentina continue to show up so abysmally in making progress toward open and competitive participation in the world economy? Perhaps the answer is that Argentina has really not yet shed many of the counterproductive characteristics that have attached like massive barnacles and sea-anchors. How can this façade of Argentina as “market friendly” be reconciled with “a most closed economy” ?
Until the country learns that there is a world beyond its frontiers with which is must properly compete, we should continue to set our watches by the announcements of new defaults and similar disasters for Argentina, along with new tribunal decisions reminding the country that it really does, after all, have to pay for the many things it has stolen.
So, having been completely unable to produce any evidence for his claims, or even attempt to explain how the vulture funds make any positive contribution, Marti resorts to personal attacks. How disappointing and yet predictable.
Jul 28th, 2017 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0I note that Fernet producers do make a positive contribution to the economy by producing a good and/or service which people are willing to exchange money for. People who invest money in Fernet producers are also making a positive contribution to the economy by allowing them to expand their business, or make improvements in efficiency etc. On the other hand, vulture funds, like banks selling junk 'mortgage backed securities' before the financial crisis, are creating more harm than benefit.
However, Marti, at this point it is more than obvious you are not interested in discussing the hedge funds at all. No one reading your diatribes in this thread can be in any doubt whatsoever that you are extremely anti-Argentine, and it takes no great leap of logic to realise that you are defending the funds only because they hurt Argentina. Since I do not expect you to change your mind, this makes it pointless to pursue the matter further.
@DT
Jul 28th, 2017 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Ditto.
Neither arbolito nor reekie show interest in ameliorating their ignorance on the subject of hedge funds, promoting instead Argentina's perpetually criminal chicanery and thinly veiled practice of theft. For our other readers, a few introductory words by those in higher pay grades:
Jul 28th, 2017 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ ... hedge fund ... a diverse group of financial institutions, which together play an increasingly important role in our financial system. The rapid growth in their numbers and their assets under management suggests they provide, or are perceived to provide, significant economic value to investors that is not available in other investment vehicles. If hedge funds demonstrate continued value as investment vehicles, then given the relatively small share of the world's savings they account for today, we could see meaningful further increases both in the aggregate size of the hedge fund sector and in the relative significance of their role in financial markets. In the conventional wisdom, hedge funds are conspicuous more for their perceived risks to the financial system than for the positive contribution they make to how financial markets function. In fact, however, they provide a variety of very positive contributions to our financial system.”
“ Hedge funds play a valuable arbitrage role in reducing or eliminating mispricing in financial markets. They are an important source of liquidity, both in periods of calm and stress. They add depth and breadth to our capital markets. By taking risks that would otherwise have remained on the balance sheets of other financial institutions, they provide an important source of risk transfer and diversification....”
(to say nothing of the role of hedge funds in exposing corruption and patently unlawful behaviour by certain Third-World backwaters in South America).
Does ML “hate” Argentina? Not at all. He is thoroughly amused by its clown performances. He does not “hate” the clowns, but rather, laughs at them. And you should, too.
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