MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
“Dump Falklands and Tierra del Fuego, they are too expensive”, says Argentine top banker
Another member of Argentine President Mauricio Macri administration is in trouble over statements referred to the Falkland Islands, which were actually unearthed from years back, but in election time strange things tend to happen and social networks picked up the outburst of such major 'sin'. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesArgentina's Falklands' claim is dead in the water. RIP Malvinas myth.
Jul 20th, 2017 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse +7Argentina's Illegitimate Sovereignty Claims: https://www.academia.edu/10490336/Argentinas_Illegitimate_Sovereignty_Claims_i_
Most sensible Argie that I have come across...
Jul 20th, 2017 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse +9Let's be absolutely clear.....we do not want TdF either, give it back to the Chileans you stole it from, or return it to the natives you stole it from even before that.
Jul 20th, 2017 - 11:10 am - Link - Report abuse +8What sensible people commenting here, after all Patagonia is full of British people and Ushuaia which is supposed to the the “Capital of the Falklands” was also founded by British people, sadly except the Falklands so much under the control of all conquering and imperial Argentina, and they say they are not good at conquering ... so modest.
Jul 20th, 2017 - 11:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0I wouldn't object to taking TdF if Argentina doesn't want it. Sounds like an interesting holiday destination. We'd have to get rid of the beavers though.
Jul 20th, 2017 - 01:28 pm - Link - Report abuse +3Quixotic self-deception and pedestrian populist arrogance are Argentina's sole remaining virtues.
Jul 20th, 2017 - 01:29 pm - Link - Report abuse +5“... comments are painful for all Argentines, and particularly for the Veterans ...”
Jul 20th, 2017 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse +6Yes, reality can be like that. You invaded, you lost, accept it.
I'm sure Macri is of a similar opinion...
Jul 20th, 2017 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse +7The ambassador in London recalled that back in 1997, Macri was interviewed on the issue and his reply surprised everybody. He minimized the claim and stated, “I never quite understood the sovereignty claims of such as big country as ours. We don't have a space problem such as Israel, for example”.
But apparently he did not stop there: in effect as a pro-business man and faithful to orthodox economics, the heir of an industrial and real estate conglomerate added, “as far as I know it costs quite a bit to the English Treasury to keep the Malvinas Islands” so if they are recovered for Argentina, “Malvinas will become an additional deficit for the country's accounts”.
Oh really, so no the right of a country to claim or not claim is based on territorial size?
Jul 20th, 2017 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse -9Wow, then in that case the same should apply to economic GDP. In which case the UK should be paying 200 billion Euros to the EU and not a measly 100 billion!
No Trollboy, he didn't say Argentina have no right to claim it, he said he didn't see the benefit to doing so.
Jul 20th, 2017 - 10:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +6Also you've got it the wrong way around; The EU is big and rich so why does it need to ask for money from the poor little UK?
DemonTree: “ I wouldn't object to taking TdF...”
Jul 21st, 2017 - 12:28 am - Link - Report abuse +4Likely you'd find it mostly unpleasant. The north and centre are beset by annoying high winds and monumentally boring dusty landscapes that have been nibbled to the nubs by overgrazing sheep. The south is largely mountains with bogs in the valleys in between. In fact when we were younger and all the roads crossing the bogs were gravel, we'd sometimes go walking on portions of the bogs covered with thin soil, for that bouncing water-bed effect. Very little that is edible grows there, other than sheep in the north and centre. The cost of living is quite high. At holiday time the argie residents are so anxious to get off the island that the vehicle queue at the frontier controls at San Sebastian can be more than 1 km long. I've been by there at non-peak times and it can take 2 hours or more to cross the frontier between the CL and the AR sides, going either way. The town of Rio Grande is not unlike Oakland inasmuch as there is no there there. The single most fascinating item on the main island is the graffito at the mirador near the top of Garibaldi Pass which summarises the extent of the fuegians' knowledge of the outside world. Flying into the Ushuaia airport during typical windy days will help you find religion.
Dusting down the old Argentina archives in an attempt to make new news.
Jul 21st, 2017 - 08:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0The British gave up Nigeria and Guyana for the same reason. Time for Argentina to think sensibly.
Jul 21st, 2017 - 12:47 pm - Link - Report abuse +3“Time for Argentina to think sensibly.”
Jul 21st, 2017 - 01:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +4You cannot logically use “Argentina,” “think,” and “sensibly” in a phrase. Not so long as ruinous peronismo and pitch-fork populism infect the country.
@Marti
Jul 21st, 2017 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The south is largely mountains with bogs in the valleys in between.”
Can't be worse than my holiday in Scotland. (Actually my holiday in Scotland was great, perfect weather and nice walks; we were trying to teach my friend's gf the difference between boggy, soggy, squidgy and squelchy.)
Did you ever break through the crust and fall into the bog underneath? Are we talking the kind of bog that swallows you whole or the kind where you just get covered in stinking mud?
I have no idea what Oakland is like but I wouldn't mind flying into Ushuaia airport. All my flights have been so routine with barely any turbulence even, which is better really, but kind of boring.
DT - : Can't be worse than my holiday in Scotland
Jul 21st, 2017 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You've obviously never been to Argentina.
Oakland......Oakland is the robbery capital of America. If you've never been to Argentina, you can just visit Oakland and get a good idea.
Never fell through the wavy ground on top of a bog in Tierra del Fuego. I know of someone whose cattle would occasionally get stuck in bogs and if they could not pull them out they would slaughter and dress the animal right where it last stood. Keep that image fresh in mind when you visit the patagonia or Tierra del Fuego.
Proof-less and Truth-less’s lavish follower
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You still haven't even tried to prove the assertion I asked you to in this very thread.” You’re as bigger liar as as your fascist buddy as it was answered in full here.
http://en.mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470653
By no less an authoritative source than SOMA'S DICTIONARY OF LATIN QUOTATIONS MAXIMS AND PHRASES
A Compendium Of Latin Thought And Rhetorical Instruments For The Speaker Author And Legal Practitioner
And how is oskland , llazo??
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 03:14 am - Link - Report abuse 0@ML
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 07:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds perfectly sensible to me, although no doubt here it would be against EU regulations.
Sheep, mountains and bogs... dare I ask how you would describe the Falklands, or the Highlands of Scotland?
@TH
All you have proved by that is that you don't believe in the right to remain silent and think that people are guilty unless they prove themselves innocent.
I have been to Oakland a couple of times, once for a Salsa lesson and once to see Ray Brown and friends in a Sushi bar. The train tracks go right down the street and train whistles interrupted the performance a couple of times. It's the home of Jack London and then there's nearby Bezerkley too. I can't see any comparison with TDF or the Falklands. Ushuaia which I have visited a couple of times is quite dismal full of rain stained concrete, damp rugger pitches and downtrodden looking folk skulking about. I can understand it their only entertainment being rock throwing and tyre burning on the arrival of cruise ships.
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 09:11 am - Link - Report abuse +2The Falklands seemed to be a nice place full of smiling people. People whose families stretched back generations and new arrivals who loved the peace beauty and sense of community. As for Scotland, lovely place when it's not raining.
I'm not seeing anything wrong with Mountains and boggy valleys...rugged natural landscape it is...
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 01:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The water from the mountains has to go somewhere and without irrigation there will be bogs...
Scots Pine loves it...
..but you need to plant it...
DemonTree Proof-less and Truth-less’s slavish follower
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“All you have proved by that is that you don't believe in the right to remain silent and think that people are guilty unless they prove themselves innocent.” Jack Bauer is not afforded the protection of the presumption of innocence since he is not accused of criminality. He was proved to be a constant liar beyond a shadow of doubt according to the appropriate standards. Your defence of this revealed liar and fascist speaks volumes about your lack of morality in this matter.
This argento Luis Lach is onto something, even if he doesn't present the amounts that Argentina spends every year playing with its Malvinas toys. So far I've seen estimates of US$100 to 300 million or so, something they can ill afford. And of course they get nothing for it but nationalist-populist froth, which in Argentina is easy to come by. There are entire government offices here that do little more than try to figure out what is going on in the Falklands, and a good part of the military budget likewise is spent on trying to collect information, or even invent it (most of that is fed to the Dirección de Inteligencia Estratégica). Some of that spending is on comparatively expensive aircraft, satellite, and radar resources but there's also evidence of spendy argie intel-collection visits to the islands, as well as budget allocations for Malvinas-related skulduggery in other countries. And then there are the Disney-like Malvinas-theme parks and other construction, and the rubber Malvinas tomahawks and other collateral whatnot. It adds up. But the spending gives the legions of unskilled and otherwise unemployable something to do and effectively diverts national resources from productive work. Mussolini would be proud.
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse +2DT
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 05:11 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The nearest comparison to the Falklands would be the Isle of Lewis in the Hebrides.
@Clyde15
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 07:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Is it boggy and full of sheep? IMO the biggest problem with bogs is all the midges that breed in them.
I would have thought maybe the Shetlands were most similar to the Falklands though?
Midges don't breed in bogs...
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 07:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0They breed in damp soil where there is a food source, not much to eat in a bog...and too wet they would drown...
They do not eat as a midge only as a larvae...
“They do not eat as a midge only as a larvae...”
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sorry to disabuse you but the females certainly do eat...
“It is only the female midge that bites. They emerge with enough fat reserves to mature their first batch of eggs, but need a blood meal to give subsequent batches enough nutrients to grow”
https://www.smidgeup.com/midges/midge-facts/why-do-midges-bite/
I take it you've never been anywhere where midges are endemic...like Scotland for instance.
They bite not to eat fool...but to lay eggs...jeez...
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Bloody Irish eh...can't even understand what they read....
@Voice
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't know that, there always seems to be tons of them near water. But eating blood is still eating, they bite to get nutrition so they can lay more eggs.
DemonTree
Jul 22nd, 2017 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Eating is for sustenance... they need the nutrition for the eggs to survive not for the midge to survive...there is a difference.
As a larvae they have a voracious appetite and eat virtually everything in the soil...
That is why there has been no attempts to eradicate them in Scotland...they have no idea how it will affect the eco balance...
They can get rid of them with nematodes introducing them to the soil...but daren't...
When you see a cloud of midges dancing a few feet above the ground...they are males and below is a breeding site...the female bites and then drops to the ground to lay eggs and the males fertilise them..
When I see that in the garden I spray that area with bug killer eliminating generations of them as they are fairly territorial...
We are all midge experts on the West coast of the Highlands...;-)))
In our territory the midges do indeed live and breed in the bogs, and they do indeed bite (or sting, if you prefer) which should be no surprise to anyone who knows them by their common name, biting midges. Some species are in fact truly aquatic, despite what tinkle-voice believes. Their biting is referred to as “ eating” by entomologists, even if tinkle- voice does not understand the concept. In fact, while only adult female midges feed on blood (most species), both the adult females and males feed on vegetable fluids and nectar. Put another way, “ Male and female biting midges feed on plant sap and nectar, the primary energy sources for flight and for increased longevity of females.”
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 01:13 am - Link - Report abuse 0And so goes another set of tinkle-voice misconceptions.
For a moment there I thought DemonTree was talking about...Culicoides impunctatus the Highland Midge..the one that lives in Scotland...
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 05:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0I feel so silly that he was talking about all species of midges from all over the world...
Oh dear...;-))))
I think the Spaniard should give up whilst he's still behind...
Little by little his stupidity is revealed...
How can you dump The Falkland Islands when they are not yours to dump? Over to the horses arse, Tinkle and the erect member to explain...?
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 08:11 am - Link - Report abuse 0Voice
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 12:05 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Caught making things up and you resort to being offensive...again.
Why can't you just admit you were wrong.
As for the West coast of Scotland - clearly you've never been there.
I have proved beyond reasonable doubt where I am many times...
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have you ever proved you are in Paddy land...?
I am not wrong... DemonTree was talking about the notorious Highland Midge specifically...not any old midge in Latin America or even the rest of the UK of which there are 152 species and 37 species in Scotland...
There is no substitute for experience and I experience them every year from May to October..
I rarely use any repellent as years of exposure builds a resistance to their annoying bites, but I'm always amused by tourists doing the Midge dance...
I think Señor Lach is onto something here, but I'm surprised that as a banker/economist he would suggest (even tongue-in-cheek) giving it away when billions of $$$ can be earned by long-leasing parcels of Argentine territory - so much of which is dormant and crying out for good governance - and create many new Hong Kongs, so to speak. I suggest he get in touch with the World Bank economist Paul Romer who, for some years past, has been (so far without success) promoting the concept of “Charter Cities”. www.chartercities.com
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 12:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There you go again “I am not wrong” why don't you be honest and admit you were wrong.
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 01:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm sorry I don't know where 'Paddy land' is...or were you trying to be offensive again...surely not.
huh...?
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's where Paddy McGinty's Goat comes from...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpqLgfc8n8Q
Tinkle-voice apparently believes that wherever he is, constitutes the centre of the universe, insect-wise -- or otherwise. Which is why I indicated that his tiny knowledge of entomology does not include the universe beyond his mud hut. Thus it is no wonder he is so often so very wrong about a great many other things in the real world, as well.
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Let them talk. The more people get to know them and their mindset, the less votes Cambiemos gets in October.
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 04:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Speaking of small, blood-sucking, annoying pests.....
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 05:38 pm - Link - Report abuse +1I wasn't talking specifically about the Highland midge. I don't know how many species there are but I have had unpleasant encounters with midges all across the British Isles.
Jul 23rd, 2017 - 11:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@EM
I daresay that is why it has been brought up now. I wish we had the context, to be honest it sounds like something someone would say as a joke.
Not that I am being picky Voice, but you need drainage to drain bogs, not irrigation, that would just add water to the bogs....or you may have been suggesting that they use the water from the bogs to irrigate....who knows. Carry on....
Jul 24th, 2017 - 01:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Tinkle-voice doesn't know his bog from a hole in the ground.
Jul 24th, 2017 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Tinkle-voice doesn't know his bog from a hole in the ground.” Wrong Marti, that's all they use up there, its up kilt and whoopsie! Midges can be a sore point though until you become immune.
Jul 24th, 2017 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Glad there were no midges in the Falklands and Bluebuzzers weren't much of a problem. Love the stuff on bogs. Get in and get out (if yer lucky) without smashing the diff locks. A bog is a euphemism for Argentine Government thinking, even Macri's. A kirchenerite would select two wheel drive and a high gear to get out of a boghole.
Jul 24th, 2017 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@ DT You should visit Ushuaia if you get the opportunity as it has incredible scenery. Mostly you are looking at Chilean mountains but the setting is spectacular. The weather is not great but I was lucky to have 5 days of sunshine during my stay which is most unusual. :) The town is kinda scruffy and not very attractive because most people living there don't care too much about it. 98% of the population were not born there but are just enjoying the higher and tax free wages for a short time before going home. That transient feel makes it seem to lack a heart. There is little to do if you live there, a cinema and dancing once a week. A local told me they mostly have affairs to pass the time - I suggested he try philately. The reason to go there is for the experience. You really do feel like you are in the southern most town on earth in the middle of nowhere. I am really glad I went but if your company ever told you they were transferring you to a branch in Ushuaia, it would be time to look for another job.
Jul 25th, 2017 - 11:22 am - Link - Report abuse +1Chilean mountains? No, not around Ushuaia. Unless you go way west. Hardly what you'd call incredible, but pleasantly interesting. As you approach Ushuaia from the north you cross the more dramatic Darwin Range and that part of it is very much in Argentina. Prices are off the charts. There is an Anónima grocery at the eastern side of things as you are leaving (near the new Paseo de Fuego centre) and we stop there religiously to stock up on bottles of Beagle beer, which is arguably better than the Austral we get on the Chilean side. Beware this area since it's near the YPF facility where the protests sometimes get violent. It used to be we'd plan a visit to Harberton on the way back, but Natalie passed away a couple of years ago and it's not the same. Back in the seventies the road from Ushuaia to Río Grande was all gravel and dust, and the zigzags up and down Garibaldi Pass gave you quite the ride. Now the tourists and locals alike drive up and down the pass like maddened animals.
Jul 25th, 2017 - 02:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I didn't stay only in the town but travelled around the area and it was very beautiful. Some of the photographs I took there were spectacular. I didn't drive but flew in as DT plans to do. I didn't come across any trouble at all and found the locals most welcoming if a little provincial. Perhaps attitude affects one's perception.
Jul 25th, 2017 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Don't listen to the neg., D.T., it is well worth a visit and I wouldn't steer you wrong on travel.
D-Tree, if you really want to come here to southern Argentina -- and don't say you weren't warned - and want to really see some proper scenery, forget about Ushuaia. I've been going to Ushuaia for more than 30 years, mostly taking people on tours. It's over-rated, over-priced, under-whelming and over-plastic. It's the sort of place you go for the equivalent of the rubber tomahawks. If you insist on flying - and I say this as a long-time tour guide here - fly instead to El Calafate and then go visit the glacier and the Ice Museum (the “Glaciarium”). Good for half a day. Enormously more spectacular and much better presentation than anything the chilenos have done on their side of the icefield. While in El Calafate you can laugh at the places named after Kirchners and other infamous argie criminals. But be sure to visit my friend Bernardo Roil at Instantes Patagonicos and see the photos his grandfather Walter took of The Old Patagonia. If there is any German in your genes or dialect you'll be all the better received. Many good dinner choices but my fave is La Tablita, at the eastern edge. Then get out of town and head north (driving) to El Chaltén, only recently grown into a town from a dusty frontier settlement. The portion of (free entry!) Los Glaciares national park here is where you find the truly most spectacular scenery in all of the accessible parts of southern Patagonia. The skyline above El Chaltén you'll recognise as that selected for the iconic Patagonia company logo. El Chaltén is better in many ways than Torres del Paine on the chileno side, which is now disgustingly over-used, over-hyped, under-managed, and overpriced. Walking from the centre of El Chaltén you can do any number of most excellent treks into the adjacent park, but mind the unpredictable weather, which as often as not in summer can be chubascos and high wind, with the easiest sun- and wind-burns on the continent. Forget plastic Ushuaia; see El Chaltén.
Jul 25th, 2017 - 08:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's a lot of Patagonia to see so I'm not sure which is the best part. I think the Torres del Paine is where those videos of people getting blown over by the wind were filmed, but it was a beautiful landscape. If El Chaltén is like that then it sounds like it's worth visiting.
Jul 26th, 2017 - 12:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0ElaineB, which places would you recommend the most for a visit?
Here is the thing about Torres del Paine. It's a pretty place, but managed badly by the Chilean government. Actually it's not even the government, but their forestry association, CONAF, which runs the park and is in fact a private corporation, not a government agency. CONAF runs the park as a ticket office - taking in millions every year - and re-invests very little in that park, using the income instead for its other, rather unprofitable operations. Its corruption and malfeasance are being increasingly revealed. Not so long ago the local “guides” worked out a deal so that in certain months of the year visitors have to hire a “guide” to even hike the trails.
Jul 26th, 2017 - 01:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The park was formerly sheep-raising land, but the tourist publicity falsely describes it as “pristine.” There is a selective vision that fails to observe the old (and some new) fences, burn scars, and other evidence of the sheep farming. Maybe visitors find that simply quaint. The eastern part of the park is in private hands, owned by part of the Kusanovic dynasty, who still raise livestock inside the “park.” The private owners have conspired with CONAF to pretty much force visitors to the eastern side of the park to pay outrageous prices to stay in the private huts and campgrounds, since ad hoc camping outside of those approved areas is now a crime and if you are caught camping improperly, CONAF can get you literally removed from the country.
Oh, and as a foreign visitor, expect to pay double the entry fee to get into the park, versus what the nationals pay, but that is common enough in South America.
Bring money. Lots of it.
Yes, the wind blows there during summer season. And that is what makes fighting the fires in the park so difficult. In about 2011 an Israeli visitor started a fire that destroyed a good part of the park and the scars are still very much in evidence. CONAF and the tourist agencies have been very careful about not letting prospective visitors know much about that.
Wow Marti, you really know how to sell a place. Is this how you described things when you were a tour guide and did you get much repeat business? Also sunburn is a problem? Isn't it about as far south as the UK is north?
Jul 26th, 2017 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sunburn? Punta Arenas had maybe still has the greatest incidence of melanomas / skin cancer on the planet.... it was directly under the hole in the ozone layer.
Jul 26th, 2017 - 11:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Now speaking of seeing TdF ... the real TdF... not the 'occupied TdF'... take a ride with these people.. https://www.australis.com/site/en/ .. they get to parts that others do not. Take a round trip .. that way you can avoid supporting the RG economy.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!