MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Venezuela begins systematic purge of the regime's opponents
Venezuela’s high court issued an arrest order for the ousted chief prosecutor’s husband on Thursday after authorities accused him of running a US$6 million extortion ring, a ruling promptly denounced by government critics as a move aimed at silencing opponents of President Nicolas Maduro. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesVenezuela appears for the first time as “not free” country report of Freedom House organization attributed the new category to “the combination of extreme economic mismanagement and heavy-handed Government” of President Nicolas Maduro.
Aug 18th, 2017 - 09:28 am - Link - Report abuse +1Maduro is a keen supporter of Argentina's mythical Malvinas claim even speaking at regional conference on behalf of Argentina (CELAC).
If there is nothing to take to court the claim is illegitimate.
Argentina's Illegitimate Sovereignty Claims: https://www.academia.edu/27599163/Argentinas_Illegitimate_Sovereignty_Claims
Still, why let a good old socialist distraction get in the way of the truth.
Brit Bob, not everything is about the Falklands. The situation in Venezuela is serious, many people have died and what's left of the opposition is being persecuted. I hope for their sakes that Ortega and Ferrer have left the country.
Aug 18th, 2017 - 06:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0How sad! All decent people should be declaring their repugnance at events as they unfold in Venezuela!!
Aug 18th, 2017 - 06:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Which means no one posting on this site will be declaring anything...
Aug 18th, 2017 - 08:16 pm - Link - Report abuse -2Considering Lula's admiration for Chavez, and his implicit support of Maduro - obvious, by his refusal say anything negative about the madman, far less to condemn his actions - how can anyone not admit the possibility that that is what he has in mind for Brazil and the rest of South America. when he talks of the 'greater America' ?
Aug 18th, 2017 - 08:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +2@Tr0lListic_Approach
Aug 19th, 2017 - 12:09 am - Link - Report abuse 0Including you, I note.
@JB
In Lula's last speech, he said:
“A gente não pode permitir que, qualquer que seja o erro de Maduro (Nicolás Maduro, presidente da Venezuela), que um presidente americano diga que vai utilizar força para poder derrubar. Temos de dizer que a autodeterminação dos povos é uma coisa que aprendemos a defender.”
Which google translate renders as:
”We can not allow Maduro (Nicolás Maduro, president of Venezuela) to make a mistake, that a US president says he will use force to overthrow it. We have to say that the self-determination of peoples is something we have learned to defend.“
Which doesn't make much sense. Seems to me it should be more like ”Whatever the error of Maduro, we cannot allow a US President to say he will use force to overthrow him.” Is that right? If so, at least he does admit that Maduro has made an error. And I agree that it would be a bad idea for the US to overthrow him by force, although there is precious little self determination in Venezuela these days.
Anyway, I can't imagine anyone who sees the state of VZ these days will be inspired to copy it. The whole thing is a disaster.
In fact one of the functions of the EU is supposed to be stopping member states going off the rails and becoming undemocratic, but I kind of doubt that's what Lula has in mind with his greater America.
@DT
Aug 20th, 2017 - 04:30 am - Link - Report abuse +1Sure, he said that and many other things....but in that specific passage, it is clear he is 1) trying to divert attention from Maduro to Trump, because there is no way he can justify what's happening in VZ, and 2) refusing to condemn Maduro.
I'm glad you think it doesn't make much sense....but only to the untrained ear, that is...it is all too clear : he is playing to an audience of largely radical leftists that will applaud anything he says. Again, he is playing the 'us against them' card.
OK, so if you, and I reckon that also most intelligent, rational people, without hidden agendas, agree that VZ is not a model to be copied, then why do you think Lula is still loath to condemn Maduro ? Because it would go against all he has been preaching and the philosophy behind the “Foro de São Paulo”...when he speaks at political rallys, you can see the hate frothing from his vulgar mouth, and the idiots waving red flags and shouting aggressive slogans. Hardly the role of a person who claims he's committed to (true) democracy.
I don't think the US should intervene militarily either, especially because I think it's just a matter of time before VZ either implodes on it's own, or succumbs to a civil war. In either case, I think Maduro's days are numbered.
You really hate him don't you?
Aug 20th, 2017 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse -2I'm sure the not making sense part was due to the machine translation; I don't speak a word of Portuguese. Can't complain though, it's pretty impressive that a computer can translate at all.
Anyway, he was mostly talking about Trump in that section and I think only mentioned Maduro because of Trump's threats. Dunno if he talked about Maduro anywhere else; when I google I just get articles about Maduro supporting Lula, which might be another reason Lula is reluctant to say too much against him. But even if Lula is no longer actively supporting Maduro, we know that other people in the PT are. It's so stupid as well as hypocritical for them to complain of a coup in Brazil and then support one in Venezuela. Whatever good they could do in Brazil, it won't happen if they don't support democracy above their political alliances.
The US has intervened in Latin America too much already, I think anything they could do would just make the situation worse and seem to prove the Chavistas right. Also no government they helped install would be regarded as legitimate by the people of Venezuela, and that would be a problem in itself.
Well, that's one arrest warrant that isn't going to be executed. The Ortega's have escaped Venezuela and claimed asylum in Columbia. Ms Ortega is making claims about Maduro's role in Brazil's Odebrecht scandal. I love it when bullies get out-played!
Aug 20th, 2017 - 12:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +2I'm glad to hear that. I don't know whether they abandoned Maduro due to conscience or just because they could see the way the wind was blowing, but the more of his former supporters willing to stand up and tell the truth about him the better.
Aug 20th, 2017 - 01:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@DT
Aug 20th, 2017 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I expect both the scenario's you've suggested are likely the truth, I doubt whether having former supporters “...willing to stand up and tell the truth about him...” is going to make any difference however. Recently the Venezuelan conductor Gustavo Dudamel made some critical comments about the regime he once supported. Maduro called him ( predictably ), a 'traitor'.
Venezuela's 'government' is never going to leave voluntarily, they have too many secrets, displayed too much incompetence,they have caused too much suffering, inspired too much resentment to not know what the consequences will be for them if they lose power. They know they would lose an election if held now, which is why created this new Assembly. They don't have to worry about holding elections anymore do they?
I don't believe change will come without physical force, and the only way it will be meaningful is if it only takes between Venezuelans. Which is a tragedy.
You don't think it might make some difference if enough of his supporters desert him? I'm hoping his last few international allies in the region dump him as well, although if they haven't already...
Aug 20th, 2017 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Unfortunately, it would really take the army turning against him now, and even if they do it might just lead to a civil war, with no guarantee of getting a better government afterwards. But I definitely don't think the US should get involved, and no one else in the region is going to do it.
It is a great shame, especially for a country that had a lot of advantages and could have turned out so differently.
Trouble is his 'supporters' are committed now. Many of them have as much to lose as he, including much of the military. When the ship sinks they're going to go down with it. The selling out of the oil assets to Russia evokes images of a bunch of clueless sailors frantically trying to bail out a rickety ship that should've been scuttled a generation ago...with buckets.
Aug 20th, 2017 - 04:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your right, it IS a great shame: a Venezuelan leader, can't remember who, said, in the '60's I believe, that the country's enormous oil reserves were it's greatest curse. Prophetic words.
Why does the military have as much to lose as Maduro? I wasn't aware of them having done anything completely outrageous.
Aug 20th, 2017 - 07:31 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Selling the oil assets to a foreign country is also pretty sad, it's the kind of thing they were supposed to be totally opposed to, they should be kept for VZ the people.
It's kind of a famous fact that oil or any resource can be a curse for the country that has it, and the poorer the country the worse the curse. I don't think the VZ government could have managed to fuck up so badly or keep going so long without the oil, something would have broken sooner.
Many of the Generals I mentioned in a prior post are not career soldiers, their appointments were 'rewards' by both Maduro and his predecessors. The benefits they've accrued from this association make them complicit in the govt's darker dealings.
Aug 21st, 2017 - 02:43 am - Link - Report abuse +1It's the military's involvement in the Colombian marching powder business that is the real issue though. Legislation was enacted in 2005 that gave the military full investigative powers over drug-related crime.The possibilities for corruption are obvious. The connections between the criminal gangs and the military networks that process and smuggle the drugs even have their own name:Cartel of the sun. Needless to say those involved in the business will not be advocating regime change anytime soon...
As to your last para, there are lotsa reasons for the country's current woes but definitely those oil reserves are a significant factor. They nationalised the oil industry in 1976. For a country as corrupt as Venezuela has been this was just asking for trouble. The results have been predictable...
“Many of the Generals I mentioned in a prior post are not career soldiers, their appointments were 'rewards' by both Maduro and his predecessors.”
Aug 21st, 2017 - 12:56 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Ah, I didn't know that. Did Chavez force out the original generals or just wait for them to retire? That probably makes the army significantly less effective too, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
If the military dictatorships were able to give themselves immunity from prosecution in most of Latin America, surely the military in VZ could do the same? Narcotrafficking isn't even as big a deal as torturing and murdering people.
I honestly don't know whether any of the top brass has been forced out, it's indisputable, though, that promotions are ideological rather than performance based for years now.
Aug 21st, 2017 - 03:18 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Given the control the govt ( which includes many military and ex military officers ) now has on the new legislative body I imagine they can make up any law they like. But since the new assembly violates the current constitution it will only have any power so long as the current administration holds office.
I shouldn't be surprised, since Chavez and then Maduro appointed his supporters to the top positions everywhere else. But I would have expected them to at least pick people who were career soldiers.
Aug 21st, 2017 - 04:36 pm - Link - Report abuse -1The juntas had the same problem didn't they? They were dictators and any law they passed might not be honoured later. But I think they got their successors to agree to protect them in exchange for giving up power more easily, and in most of the countries it seems to have worked.
Do you think the National Assembly would agree to pass an amnesty law in exchange for dissolving the constituent assembly and immediate elections?
@DT
Aug 22nd, 2017 - 12:30 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sure do. And have plenty to back it up with. The machine translation was quite accurate as a matter of fact, but the gist of what he said is what matters. Lula is very smart when it comes down to taking a fact and putting his own spin on it, trying to make the villain into the victim….as he does all the time, with himself. His audience will never question what he says, but rather lap it up as the gospel truth.
There are loads of youtube videos on Lula’s ‘moments’, and it’s a pity you won’t understand what he’s saying, but his facial and body expression tells you a lot. Lula may not be officially supporting Maduro – he ain’t that stupid - but he won’t condemn him, because he is part of his ‘dream’…
I agree. A US intervention in VZ , while it might solve one problem (temporarily), would create another (more permanent one) and simply play into the hands of all the radical left…as I said, let VZ implode, by itself – let it play out, that’s the only way the VZ people will realize what’s going on and will have no-one but themselves to blame..
@JB
Aug 22nd, 2017 - 11:34 am - Link - Report abuse -1Did he say “We cannot allow Maduro to make a mistake, because Trump will use force...” or was it “Whatever mistake Maduro has made, we cannot allow Trump to use force...”? Those aren't the same.
Either way, Lula can't stop either Trump or Maduro doing what they want, and couldn't even if he was President now. Did he ever have any influence on Maduro?
I watched a video of Lula. His voice sounds really rough; he had throat cancer? I bet all that shouting at rallies doesn't help. The crowd was a sea of red, and umbrellas, they seemed pretty hyped up. And someone in the comments called him Luladrão. ;)
It's kind of surprising VZ hasn't imploded already. But even if it does, it's hard to see a stable government coming out of the mess. The OAS, Mercosur etc have condemned Maduro, but there's really not much they can do to help.
@DT
Aug 22nd, 2017 - 04:01 pm - Link - Report abuse +1The govt & and it's new puppet legislature is never going to negotiate anything resembling an amnesty with it's former legislature since a) that would be a tacit admission that they had something wrong, and b) as far as they are concerned the democratically elected body has no legitimacy and therefore no power, so why would they negotiate with them?
I know that sounds cynical, but it's what I believe to be true.
DT
Aug 22nd, 2017 - 09:46 pm - Link - Report abuse +1During the inauguration of the “Institute of the Future” (partnership btwn the Metropolitan University for Education & Labor of B.A. and the Latin American Council of Social Sciences in S.Bernardo do Campo, a PT stronghold) , Lula defended a vehement condemnation by Brazil, of the possibility of US military action against VZ. Part of his speech : “we cannot permit that any mistake Maduro may have committed, or will commit, be a reason for Trump to talk of intervention”; The great statesman went on , “Trump needs to learn that we don’t solve political conflicts with weapons, but with dialogue. And if they don’t know how to, let us.”
There's more : ”The 'Institute of the Future' will help us to a more profound reflection what we are going through now. The solution is political. And, with the help of the Institute we need to create new political groups to rule Latin America”.
First, who is he to tell the Bzln govt what to do, or to permit or not permit anything ? but ok, he 'abhors' the idea of military intervention in VZ, yet he conveniently ignores the violence perpetrated by the the VZ military and paramilitary forces against the people. He talks of politics being the solution, but what politics if the man he supports - Maduro - refuses point blank to even talk to the opposition ? As I’ve said, the rhetoric is for his radical audience.
Lula was behind Odebrecht’s financial support for Chavez's election, and one presumes for his successor, so would look like Maduro needs Lula’s support, or at least for him to ignore the shit going on in VZ ; Lula talks as if be believes he's the saviour.
He did have throat cancer…there are rumours it’s not cured, and I hope it isn’t. Those who call him “Luladrao” (Lula thief) are right. To me it's more than clear that politics will not solve the VZ situation, unless you interpret politics as being the silencing of the opposition by any means. Still think VZ will implode by itself. Outside help won't be needed.
@HC
Aug 23rd, 2017 - 11:23 am - Link - Report abuse -1I'm sure you are right that the current government wouldn't do it. But suppose the military decided to dump Maduro and staged a coup, perhaps they could do so? Admitting they had done things wrong might still be a problem, and anyway it seems unlikely to happen.
@JB
Right, that's what I thought it meant. Google changed the meaning slightly so I wasn't sure.
You and Lula do actually agree that America intervening by force would be a bad thing, and would just make the situation worse in the long run - even though you don't believe in his 'political solution' (and nor do I).
I love the way Lula thinks he can show the US how to solve conflicts with dialogue. That seems a tad... optimistic. Did he have to deal with any such problems while he was president? I'm guessing he wasn't a big fan of using the military to solve problems.
“Lula was behind Odebrecht’s financial support for Chavez's election”
Somehow I don't think Maduro will be needing any more help for elections. But Chavez was elected before Lula, and had plenty of oil money to spend. Why would he need support from Odebrecht? From what I heard it was more the other way around, Chavez was funding the campaigns of sympathetic politicians around Latin America.
“...and I hope it isn’t.”
Harsh. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think it's right to wish people dead. It's not like he's a serial killer or something.
@DT
Aug 23rd, 2017 - 05:45 pm - Link - Report abuse +1He and I may agree, but for totally different reasons....his, because it would hurt his ally, mine because I don’t think it’s a good idea - to avoid possible further instability - and because I think Maduro will topple on his own. Your suggestion that the military might get rid of him, to take over themselves, is well within the realm of possibility but seeing what they are doing now, doesn't look like a good omen for the future.
The only international ‘incident’ Lula had to deal with, was when Evo Morales, shortly after being elected end 2005, invaded a Petrobras refinery on Bolivian soil. The PB investment, starting 1994, was US$ 1,5 billion ; At the time, Brazil as a whole believed and hoped Lula would flex our ‘muscle’ and force things back to normal, but after a few months of not very heated discussion, Lula/ Evo came to an agreement, highly detrimental to Brazil…he let Bolivia have it, for US$ 112 million…in hindsight, easy to see why....Lula later admitted that Evo, while campaigning in 2005, had asked Lula what he'd do if Bolivia nationalized the PB installations....Lula just said, “well,the gas is yours.....”....so it was a premeditated move, in an effort to strengthen Evo in Bolivia...at Brazil's expense.
Chavez’s re-election was Lula’s / Odebrecht’s doing….Lula’s ‘marketeers’ went to VZ to help re-elect him, paid by Odebrecht, as revealed by their testimony during their recent plea-bargain. That Chavez may have funded campaigns in other countries, I can’t say, or even why Chavez would need help, but nevertheless, both the marketeers and Odebrecht have confirmed it.
Harsh ? perhaps, but considering the bad he has done overall for Brazil, I think it’s quite appropriate. Brazil will really only get back on track after the ‘myth’ is dead and gone.
@JB
Aug 23rd, 2017 - 11:58 pm - Link - Report abuse -1I don't think you are right about Lula's motives. I think he is opposed to any US intervention in Latin American affairs, as are many people in the region who have seen what happened in the past. He may also be opposed to the use of military force in general, but I don't know that. It's hard to judge from the event you mention as apparently he never had any intention of taking any action against his ally.
Strange that Chavez took money from Odebrecht when he had access to all that oil money. Maybe Obebrecht offered it but what did they get in return? And people on here like to claim that Chavez funded CFK's campaign in Argentina, but I have no idea if it is true.
As for Lula, it's the myth that you need to die, not the man. Chavez is dead but the Chavistas are still ruling Venezuela, Castro is dead but his brother is ruling Cuba. If you want to see the end of his influence then Lula going to jail may be a lot more effective than him dying.
@DT
Aug 24th, 2017 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Lula is not that pragmatic or well intentioned, his motive, deep down, is to try to prevent Trump from upsetting the status quo, which at the moment, with his buddy in power, favours his Bolivarian project. Believe me, after accompanying his trajectory for over 40 years, I know what to expect of him. He thinks he’s smart, and his 'smartness' works well with the ignorant ‘n those who hope to benefit directly from whatever he does, but he is the champion when it comes down to opposing something (good) when his political adversaries promote it, to only later, when it’s proved to have worked, try to appropriate the paternity for himself….if the people are ignorant, they believe him….ex : the “plano real”, the “Bolsa familia”…
Lula got (mainly) Odebrecht to take on huge projects abroad, with the financing of the BNDES, in order to consolidate his ‘personal’ relationship with other leaders, and make his ‘negotiations’ to arrange schemes to finance his plans of the PT becoming a leading force in South America, and for what purpose, is obvious. His influence ($$$) in Chavez’ re-election was just the icing on the cake.
Lula is the driving force behind ‘lulopetismo’ (his way of the PT doing politics), he has no replacement - he tried with Dilma, and look at the disaster she was - so if Lula pips it, people will realize the dream has ended, and with it, the ‘myth’…The ‘chavistas’ are still ruling VZ, sure, but only at the cost of Maduro installing a dictatorship…..it’s just a matter of time before all dictators meet their waterloo. If they were truly good, it would be the preferred form of government, and no-one would object. Why do Cubans keep on fleeing from Cuba ? Because it’s social paradise ? Lula, in jail is good, dying there even better.
@JB
Aug 24th, 2017 - 09:11 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Lula seems pretty pragmatic to me. He switched from his original radical ideas to something a lot more moderate, and decided to work within the system in order to get elected and change things in Brazil. And it's not like he doesn't have an ulterior motive since the US is generally opposed to his brand of politis and any meddling from them will not be in his favour. But IMO Maduro is currently doing Lula's cause vastly more harm than good. Lula and his allies may not want to admit that Maduro has become a dictator, but the longer he stays in power now the more it reflects badly on the other leftists.
There was an article on here today speculating on who could stand for the PT if Lula was 'incommoded'; it suggested Fernando Haddad. Is he any better than Rousseff?
Anyway, there are plenty of dictators who never met their Waterloo, including Fidel Castro who died of old age despite all the CIA's attempts at assassination. I certainly hope Maduro does not stay in power so long, but he clearly is a poor replacement for Chavez, and that has not stopped him staying in power so far. Do you think things in VZ would be substantially different if Chavez was still alive?
@DT
Aug 25th, 2017 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Sorry, by pragmatic I meant transparent…Lula is devious, his motives usually aren’t what they appear to be at first glance. His radical ideas changed after he was elected because he saw the advantage in playing the game, and profiting from it. Now that he has his back to the wall, his real self is coming through, hard as he tries to pose as the savior…the savior of the mess he caused ?
I agree that Maduro is doing Lula a disservice…Maduro can no longer help himself, he's lost control (of order) but Lula refuses to admit that his disciple has derailed VZ.
Haddad was previous mayor of the city of SP, after being Dilma’s Minister of Education…jobs at which he failed miserably…His decisions were not particularly good or intelligent, the only thing going in his favour is that he can at least speak better than Dilma and does not possess her stupid arrogance. He is being considered Lula’s plan B, as Lula is not so sure he’ll stay out of prison.
OK, Fidel might be the exception, given he ruled an island, relatively out of sight, out of mind. Maduro’s VZ is part of a continent with neighbours who don’t like what’s happening, but even if they did, it wouldn’t mean that Maduro is on the right path. I think that if Chavez were alive, he would have progressed to become a virtual dictator, as before he died there were already signs of his intentions, as well as rampant corruption at the highest levels. He probably would have been able to maintain order for a a bit longer than Maduro has, but in the medium term, the Venezuelan’s would realize they were being treated like pawns, and chaos would set in.
I remember we shipped hundreds of reefer contrs, with frozen beef (in ready-to-distribute family-sized packages), to VZ, and Chavez would hang on to them for months, waiting to distribute the beef - for free - just before important announcements, or when social unrest (hunger) was becoming a problem. If that’s not manipulation, what is ?
Devious huh. Aren't all the politicians in Brazil kinda devious, what with the stealing billions from the taxpayer? How is Lula any worse?
Aug 26th, 2017 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree with you there would not be much difference in VZ if Chavez was still alive. He was slightly more competent than Maduro, and definitely more popular, but there would still be the same shortages and chaos and he ultimately wouldn't have been able to stay in power without making himself a dictator. But that was kind of my point. Chavez is dead but his party is not and Venezuela is still suffering.
And certainly the fact a dictator is able to stay in power does not been they are on the right path. I'm not a fan of dictators even if they technically do a good job of running the country (which most are very far from doing), because there is no way to get rid of them if they stop doing a good job, and nearly always they are replaced by someone evil and/or incompetent.
Also Fidel was certainly not the only dictator to die in office. Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Franco, Duvalier, the first two Kims... really it seems more common than them being overthrown. I hope this doesn't apply to Maduro, and maybe it won't since his neighbours are generally opposed to him, and his country is already in crisis.
What did Haddad do so badly as Mayor and Minister of Education? And is he actually any less competent than Lula in your opinion? Because I don't suppose there is anyone in the PT who you think would make a great President. :)
@DT
Aug 27th, 2017 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure they are...but Lula is worse in that he was the chief crook, the one who installed the criminal organization thoughout the Federal government, creating an extensive network in all State-run companies dealing with the private sector, with the sole purpose of stealing, to further his and his party's political ambitions. The others are inherently just as dishonest, but none went to the extremes he did.
Haddad, as minister of education, had to oversee national exams which served as entry to most public universities...the 2009/10/11 exams presented serious problems, such as questions being leaked before the exam, badly-presented questions ; he was strongly criticized by education experts, not only because of the recurring problems, but because of his inability to fix them... he was obviously not suited for the position, which is not surprising, as within the PT, people are rewarded for loyalty, not competence. As mayor of SP, one of his most remarkable feats, was to install bicycle lanes all over town, without the slightest planning... this lack of planning soon became evident and when questioned, he actually admitted it; as a result he was ordered by a county court to suspend all work until he presented the plans...this took a few months, and ended with many lanes being cancelled. And then, the red paint he used on the streets where they passed, just washed away with the first heavy rainfall... he simply ignored demands to explain why...but I have a pretty good hunch. There were other things, but his trademark was incompetence...just goes to show the calibre of the 'petistas'.
You're right, IMO, given the type of people that the PT attracts, they have no-one who'd make a good president....not that the other parties are much better....what is needed is someone new, who is not part of the current gang in Congress, and is prepared to break away from this current style of politics. A tall order, and knowing Brazil, won't be easy to find
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