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Spain at UN calls UK to negotiate an agreement to resolve the question of Gibraltar

Monday, September 25th 2017 - 11:24 UTC
Full article 26 comments

Spain has repeated its traditional position on Gibraltar during an address to the UN General Assembly in New York, describing the Rock as “an anachronism” and highlighting Madrid’s co-sovereignty proposal. Spanish Foreign Minister Alfonso Dastis focused on Gibraltar briefly during a 17-minute speech that covered key areas of Spanish foreign policy. Read full article

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  • Capt Rockhopper

    I think the Gibraltarians have seen how Spain responds to self determination and what it would be like within the EU given Madrid's response to the Catalans. Thanks but no thanks.

    Sep 25th, 2017 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Don Alberto

    “anachronism”s: Ceuta and Melilla.

    If Spain wasn't so dirty, she would clean her own house first.

    Sep 25th, 2017 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Terence Hill

    I’m sure that Spain does consider it an ‘anachronism’ especially when she has signed a treaty that gives it to the UK to perpetuity . If that’s considered genuine then why did Spain refuse the UK’s offer to have the matter adjudicated by the ICJ.

    Sep 25th, 2017 - 02:27 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • Brit Bob

    The Spanish need a Catalonia distraction hence Gibraltar comes to the agenda again. They forget that they have effectively ceded Gibraltar to Britain no less than 3 x times.

    Gibraltar – Spanish Myths and Agreements (1 pg):
    https://www.academia.edu/34608739/Gibraltar_Spanish_Myths_and_Agreements

    Sep 25th, 2017 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    Not sure it has anything to do with Catalonia, isn't this just the usual time of year for UN announcements?

    It would surely be good for Gibraltar if the referendum was held though, since the fear of losing Catalonia has got to be a major reason for Spain's reluctance to recognise Gib's self determination.

    Sep 25th, 2017 - 04:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • gordo1

    I lived and worked in Spain for over six years and my wife and I are still frequent visitors. My first visit to Spain was in 1947 and my next visit will be early October 2017.

    I just want to say that in all that time I have never been challenged by Spanish friends, acquaintances and fellow workers over the matter of Gibraltar(El Peñon).

    Only once, during a visit to the Cathedral in Palencia, did I have an unpleasant experience. There is a charge for entrance to this Cathedral and the lady collector of the fee guessed my nationality and demanded strongly and unpleasantly that Britain should “devolver el Peñon” - when I pointed out that the territory was ceded to Britain in perpetuity under the terms of the Treaty of Utrecht the same lady literally screamed at me that this was the fault of the last inept Habsburg King of Spain, Charles II - El Hechizado(The Bewitched) - who was sadly a victim of Habsburg inbreading and totally incapable of ruling his country and its possessions. She was wrong as the Treaty of Utrecht was enacted during the reign of Phillip V, his successor and the first Bourbon King of Spain.

    There is much ignorance in Spain about Gibraltar as there in Argentina about the Falkland Islands.

    Sep 25th, 2017 - 08:54 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • El capitano 1

    Nooooo way.....Just what is it that these Hispanics dont seem to get...The Gibraltians same as the Falkland islanders want NOTHING to do with either Spain or Argentina....NOTHING.....get it?

    Sep 25th, 2017 - 10:34 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @gordo1
    Charles II was the cause of the Spanish Civil War that the other powers got involved in, right? So in a way he was responsible, although really we should blame the Habsburgs for the truly disturbing level of inbreeding that produced him.

    Sep 25th, 2017 - 11:34 pm - Link - Report abuse -4
  • Marcos Alejandro

    “Thou shalt not steal”

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:English_imperialism_octopus.jpg

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 04:26 am - Link - Report abuse -6
  • brasherboot

    Surely it's got nothing with Spain's drive to focus away form its democratic abuses of Catalonia?

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 06:15 am - Link - Report abuse +7
  • gordo1

    Demon Tree

    Charles II the cause of the Spanish Civil War? I think you are getting your centuries and your wars mixed up.

    The death of “El Hechizado” was a cause of the War of the Spanish Succession in the early 18th Century as he had no heirs - his medical and mental problems had caused his impotency. The Spanish Civil War took place 1936-1939 when the army led by Franco rebelled against the government caused when King Alfonso XIII fled the country as the Second Spanish Republic was proclaimed, but he did not formally abdicate.

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 06:37 am - Link - Report abuse +6
  • DemonTree

    @gordo1
    You're right, I'm getting my wars mixed up. I was thinking of the War of the Spanish Succession that a bunch of other countries got involved in.

    I wonder why we still use anglicised names for the historical kings but not for the more recent ones in Spain? Eg Charles II but Juan Carlos I.

    If you've been visiting since 1947 then a lot of that time must have been during Franco's rule. What was it like living in Francoist Spain?

    @Marcos Alejandro
    An American cartoon, huh? Judging by how the US acted afterwards I'd say they took it as an example to follow, not as something to avoid.

    Don't you think it's funny to hear Spain complaining about colonialism though? They practically invented the idea.

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 08:32 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • Clyde15

    M.A.

    You dredge up a cartoon from 1888 which has no relevance to today's political reality as far as the UK is concerned ...more pertinent to modern Argentina.

    It also makes me wonder why the USA is blind to their own colonialism.... Hawaii,Samoa and Puerto Rico spring to mind.

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 11:49 am - Link - Report abuse +2
  • gordo1

    Demon Tree

    Carlos II(Charles II) was better known as “El Hechizado” and, of course, the successor to Juan Carlos I is known as Felipe VI and not Phillip VI!

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 12:03 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Terence Hill

    Marcos Alejandro
    You cannot steal what is rightfully yours. When Spain verifies as much by refusing an offer from the UK to submit the issue to the ICJ.
    With these fact in mind all you have done is violate ’Thou shalt not bear false witness’ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_bear_false_witness_against_thy_neighbour

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 01:38 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • DemonTree

    @Clyde15
    To be fair, the USA didn't yet own any of those places in 1888. I'm not sure how they managed to persuade the C24 to delist Puerto Rico, though. The UN seems very inconsistent on this and other things.

    @gordo1
    So how come I learned about Philip II at school rather than Felipe II? And why do Spanish people call our queen Isabel II? It's weird.

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 05:20 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Clyde15

    My point was, how did the USA manage to acquire Hawaii. They organised a coup, deposed the ruler then eventually incorporated it into the USA . Samoa was annexed.
    Colonialism by another name.
    The UK, for once, did the decent thing and after a brief occupation in1843,acknowledged the sovereignty of King Kamehameha 111 and the Hawaiian Kingdom.
    That's why the Union flag, as a token of respect, is incorporated into the Hawaiian flag.

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 08:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    Judging by Americans I have known, they get taught a version of history where they are always the heroes. Unlike most other countries at the time, they started with high ideals of democracy and freedom, and even when they were acting similarly to European colonisers, they didn't want it to be seen that way, either by others or their own population.

    And nowadays when nationalism and expansionism are frowned upon in most countries, the hypocrisy has spread all around the world.

    Sep 26th, 2017 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • gordo1

    Demon Tree

    Easy - FELIPE in Spanish PHILIP in English. CARLOS in Spanish CHARLES in English.

    Sep 27th, 2017 - 05:35 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    And Elizabeth in English is Isabel in Spanish? That's not even similar! Isabel is a common name in Britain too, with various spellings.

    I still think changing someone's name is an odd thing to do, so I'm glad we don't do it anymore. I was so confused when I found out Columbus was called Colón in Spanish speaking countries. It never occurred to me that an Italian was unlikely to be called Christopher.

    Sep 27th, 2017 - 08:52 am - Link - Report abuse -2
  • Pete Bog

    Marcos Alejandro

    “Thou shalt not steal“

    Gibraltar was ceded by treaty to the UK, so it wasn't stolen.

    @Clyde
    ”It also makes me wonder why the USA is blind to their own colonialism.... Hawaii,Samoa and Puerto Rico spring to mind”

    When there was a spat a few years ago, I believe the Hawaiins were threatening to seek renewed links with the UK.

    The USA are mainly responsible for the Chagossians, a British people, being evicted from, their homes.

    Marcos is a bit thick, citing the USA as whiter than white.

    Sep 28th, 2017 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • The Voice

    What question?

    Sep 28th, 2017 - 02:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • SkippyVonBraun

    The question is why is this piece appearing in Mercopenguin, a British government propaganda organ supposedly devoted to America, South America and the “South Atlantic”?

    Sep 29th, 2017 - 03:56 am - Link - Report abuse -5
  • gordo1

    SkippyVonBraun

    You seem to have forgotten that England(?) will return the Falkland Islands(Malvinas) in 25 years??(Pigs might fly before that EVER happens!)

    Sep 30th, 2017 - 08:02 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • imoyaro

    @ Don Alberto

    That is exactly the point. Who are these New Age Dons telling people they need to give up their legitimate territory?

    Oct 02nd, 2017 - 09:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Stoker

    Spain has a great record respecting people's rights to self-determination
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41463719
    Within ten years Spain will no longer exist.

    Oct 02nd, 2017 - 10:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0

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