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Catalonia “closer to statehood”; Rajoy calls Spanish political parties to discuss the situation

Monday, October 2nd 2017 - 09:23 UTC
Full article 16 comments

Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont said on Sunday that the Spanish region has won the right to statehood following a contentious referendum that was marred by violence. He said the door had been opened to a unilateral declaration of independence. Catalan officials later said 90% of those who voted backed independence in Sunday's vote. The turnout was 42.3%. Read full article

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  • Marti Llazo

    Madrid's penchant for undisguised fascism and violence in repression of its subjugated peoples is never far beneath the surface.

    When I was young you could smell the decaying bodies in the mass graves at Montjuïc, courtesy of the Madrid government.

    Oct 02nd, 2017 - 02:20 pm - Link - Report abuse +5
  • EscoSesDoidao

    Again we see this being described as 'clashes'. Nothing of the sort, it was voters being attacked.
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/10/gross-dishonesty-mainstream-media-catalonia/

    Oct 02nd, 2017 - 03:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    Quotes from the article above:

    “Spain's constitutional court declared the Catalan referendum illegal and hundreds of people were injured as police used force to try to block voting.”

    “Police used batons and fired rubber bullets during pro-referendum protests in Barcelona, and Spain's Deputy Prime Minister Soraya Saenz de Santamaria said police had “acted with professionalism and in a proportionate way”.”

    “In Gerona, riot police smashed their way into a polling station where Puigdemont was due to vote, and forcibly removed those inside. Puigdemont voted at another station. TV footage showed riot police using batons to beat a group of firefighters who were protecting crowds in Gerona.”

    Is that gross dishonesty?

    From the BBC:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-41463955/catalonia-referendum-violence-as-police-block-voting

    “Catalonia referendum: Violence as police block voting” - sounds like they are attributing the violence correctly to me.

    I thought it was pretty clear the violence was coming from the police, not the voters.

    Oct 02nd, 2017 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Voice

    I don't see how the vote could be used...
    Those that support a unified Spain would have sided with Spain and deemed the vote illegal and not bothered to vote...
    So likely most people that voted supported independence...

    Oct 02nd, 2017 - 06:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • EscoSesDoidao

    The BBC changed their posts as things progressed. They always do when they see they are about to come under fire for their bias. Look at the photo captions in the above article.

    Oct 02nd, 2017 - 07:14 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • DemonTree

    @EscoSesDoidao
    Yeah, those captions seem deliberately misleading, so he has a point when it comes to the Daily Telegraph.

    The article here hasn't changed though, and the BBC article I read this morning was similar. The impression I got from both was that the police caused all or most of the violence.

    Have you thought that maybe the BBC prefer to take a neutral stance early on and then update it as more information becomes available? But I think Murray was talking about the TV news, not the website, and I haven't seen that.

    @Voice
    Puigdemont now seems to have switched to asking for a 'new understanding' with the central government. Probably they were just hoping to get more legitimacy for their cause, but the violence from Spain will probably increase support at home and awareness and sympathy abroad.

    Oct 02nd, 2017 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • xenonman

    The ghost of Franco is ever present still!

    Oct 03rd, 2017 - 08:40 am - Link - Report abuse +4
  • DemonTree

    I wanted to add, that I have no idea whether Catalonia would be better off independent, but I think Spain should let them choose for themselves, and attempting to suppress the vote with violence is obviously wrong.

    Oct 03rd, 2017 - 11:46 am - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Pete Bog

    Well done Lovejoy! You've just made Catalonian independence more likely using your fascist thugs.

    Prat.

    @xenonman

    I bet Lovejoy has got a poster of Franco's ass which he kisses every night.

    Oct 03rd, 2017 - 01:12 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Marti Llazo

    https://stopestigma.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/rajoy-es-franco.jpg

    Oct 03rd, 2017 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +2
  • xenonman

    Cataluna could survive very nicely on its own; the remainder of Spain I'm much less certain!

    Oct 03rd, 2017 - 05:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • Chicureo

    I'm personally disappointed in the violence which could have been easily avoided if the Madrid government had not sent in exterior police to stop the vote. The King also took an unfortunate stance by declaring the vote illegal and not condemning the police brutality. This is the beginning of the end of España as we know it.

    Oct 04th, 2017 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +4
  • Marti Llazo

    @Chicureo “ This is the beginning of the end of España as we know it.”

    I don't know... looks like the same fascist Spain as always and there's a lot more of that to come. I see that they have sent troops from the national army to Barcelona to back up their Guardia Civil. Shades of 1939.

    Speaking of the Guardia Civil.... I remember once, as a nearly penniless kid, I was in Seu d'Urgell trying to hitchhike back home on the coast. The pair of GC on the highway asked where I was going and then proceeded to stop vehicles headed that way, and actually got a driver headed for Barcelona to give me a ride. The GC could be pretty decent, unless you were doing something stupid (this was during the Franco years). They, the GC, were usually good to us in our town and once told me how they were unhappy with some of the excesses of Franco's secret police and the military government in Barcelona. At the time I lived outside the city, near the Llobregat. The story we were told was this: GC were from “elsewhere” -- assigned to regions other than where they came from, so as not to be compromised by local connections and sentiments. I don't know if that is still the case.

    It's astounding how clueless Madrid has been, particularly so in asking for a little commercial from the king, who - being a Bourbon - is widely unpopular in Catalunya. It was the Bourbons who originally subjugated Catalunya in the 18th century and the catalans have never forgotten or forgiven.

    Oct 04th, 2017 - 07:05 pm - Link - Report abuse +6
  • Chicureo

    Marti, sorry about the negative rating. I was trying to touch the +1 and instead hit the -1 by mistake. My opinion is that the King will never be forgiven and will not be invited as their king ... (as Elizabeth is in Canada for example.)

    Oct 04th, 2017 - 11:02 pm - Link - Report abuse +3
  • DemonTree

    I voted him up for you. It sucks what's happening, I just hope they can sort things out without more violence and make things better for Catalonia.

    Oct 04th, 2017 - 11:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • imoyaro

    The picture of those ladies bleeding profusely reminds me of the dark sci-fi comedy “Accion Mutante,” wherein there is a scene with an armored police van pulling up to a disabled man making his way along the street at night on crutches. Two heavily armored police jump out, knock him down, and begin mercilessly attacking him with truncheons, only then shouting “Stop! Police” in characteristically lisped Castellano. How to make friends and influence people...

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a9/Accionmutante.jpg/220px-Accionmutante.jpg

    Oct 05th, 2017 - 09:43 am - Link - Report abuse +1

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