MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Royal Navy forced into “cannibalization” to meet the shortage of spares
The Royal Navy seems to be copying some of its Latin American peers. In effect the shortage of spares for Royal Navy warships and submarines has forced the Ministry of Defense (MoD) to strip parts from the rest of the fleet, the National Audit Office (NAO) has found. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThis has been happening for decades.
Nov 01st, 2017 - 10:30 am - Link - Report abuse +3I can remember visiting RAF Wattisham about 30 years ago and talking about serviceability of the ageing Phantom fleet. The Chief Technician said that they had to cannabalise parts from aircraft with short airframe lives to keep the fleet flying. pares were non existent.
The same with the Harriers. Their life span had been shortened due to intensive use in Iraq.
Not enough spare parts had been ordered from the manufacturers so they were raiding the RAF museum to remove parts from the exhibits to keep the Harrier force flying.
This seems to be endemic with the MOD ordering an supply chain and costs more in the long run.
The practice of cannibalisation to keep things running goes back more than 2000 years. But it's always encouraging to see how modern media writers report such newsworthy epiphanies. That, and the observation that the Royal Navy has “peers” in Latin America. In much the same way that the First Savings Bank of Central Chubut (assets of US$12.38) is a peer of Banco Santander (assets of US$1.4 trillion).
Nov 01st, 2017 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0This sort of activity has always gone on in the services, its nothing new. Having worked in companies making military equipment its a bit of a cash cow. When the equipment was first built parts would be made in batches which reduces set up costs per item. But if someone orders a single replacement part later on the item costs much more because it carries the whole setup cost instead of a small part of it. This plus the tendency to put a huge markup on spares makes single spares very expensive. Thats why it makes sense to raid defunct equipment for spares.
Nov 01st, 2017 - 02:41 pm - Link - Report abuse +3I borrow indicator and brake light bulbs from one motorbike for another...
Nov 01st, 2017 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse -3Does that count...?
This concept of borrowing parts is worldwide. It's nothing new or alarming...
Nov 01st, 2017 - 04:43 pm - Link - Report abuse +3I just read my last sentence in my post and does not make any sense. I must have deleted a section and forgot to update it.
Nov 01st, 2017 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +2Neither does that one...
Nov 01st, 2017 - 05:12 pm - Link - Report abuse -4It is missing an “it”
I didn't know that voicey was permitted to operate motor vehicles.
Nov 01st, 2017 - 05:14 pm - Link - Report abuse -1Are you still here...?
Nov 01st, 2017 - 05:19 pm - Link - Report abuse -2I thought you would have felt duty bound to return home to Catalonia and fight for freedom...
Not that bothered huh...?
A bit like Jo Bloggs support of Arsenal...
Chicureo
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 10:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0To me it's alarming. In a combat scenario such as Iraq. The absence of spare parts could be critical. First you have to locate a part from either a serviceable machine or one that has been taken out of service. Then you have to remove it to see if it is fit for use...checking for wear OR if it is the same part and not an older superseded model which may not fit properly.
I have been told that this is not an unusual problem.
Anyway, I was in a small part of Chile on Monday. The Royal Botanic Gardens of Scotland have an outstation in Benmore, Argyll, with a section devoted to the south Chilean forests.
The main planting in this 10 hectare hillside site is the Chilean Pine. Auraucaria araucana. These have establish well and are growing steadily. They have also constructed a small lodge based on the style of wooden churches found on Chloé island.
In conjunction with the University of Valdivia and the Nassanpulli reserve, they are protecting the species and making a seed bank in case the trees are threatened in the wild.
Sitting in this lodge on a misty day, all I needed was a Condor flying over to convince myself I was in Chile. Anyway,it is as near as I will get to the real thing.
@Clyde15
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 11:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Sounds nice. Isn't Araucaria araucana the monkey puzzle tree? I didn't know they came from Chile. Round here I've seen several planted in people's small front gardens, I guess they don't realise those trees can grow over 100ft high... They are pretty cool though. I visited some gardens at the weekend and there was a specimen that was planted in the 19th century, very impressive.
The Monkey Puzzle trees grow in Chile, Argentina, and introduced in New Zealand where they do rather well. There's a close relative native in NZ, the kauri pine, another related one in southeastern Oz, and there is yet another similar species native to Brazil. There are a few true Monkey Puzzle trees that grow here in Río Gallegos though they're not native.
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 12:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Some of the first trees planted in the UK circa 1850 were brought in by plant hunters.
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 12:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There is an avenue of these in Logan house which were planted in 1870. They don't look like the younger ones as the trunk is bare to the top of the tree. These mature specimens have a huge crown. The west of Scotland is an ideal area for their growth as they need plenty of rain and moisture.
There was a vogue for planting these in the late Victorian and Edwardian era . Many large houses still have large specimens in their gardens. What the growers possibly did not realise then was that these were forest trees, growing to 100 feet +, not quite suitable for gardens unless you had an estate.
The one I saw was bare to at least halfway up the trunk and claimed to have been planted around 1832. How old are the ones at Benmore?
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 01:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Last time I was in a botanic garden I saw an interesting tree that claimed to be from Argentina, it had a really fat, bulging trunk with big thorns all over it. I think it was this one:
https://toptropicals.com/catalog/uid/CHORISIA_INSIGNIS.htm
Sounds like it's from the north of Argentina though, so I guess they don't grow where you live, Marti?
They [monkey puzzle trees] don't currently grow naturally down this far south but they still can be successfully planted and they will usually grow well. You see them in gardens down here. The chilenos have some growing at the Torres del Paine park admin centre and it often gets much colder there than here.
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 03:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0If you ever find your way to the part of the patagonia near San Martín de los Andes, take a drive toward the Lanin volcano on the road toward the frontier crossing into Chile. Rather spectacular views of not just the volcano but those trees as well.
How cold is it where you live? You're at a similar latitude to southern England right, just south instead of north?
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'll have to remember the place, though Patagonia is pretty big so it would be difficult to visit it all.
The coast of Whitby, North Yorkshire was all Monkey Puzzle trees...if you walk along the beach you find pieces of Jet...
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”The jet found at Whitby, in England, is of early Jurassic (Toarcian) age, approximately 182 million years old.[5][6] Whitby Jet is the fossilized wood from species similar to the extant Chile pine or Monkey Puzzle tree (Araucaria araucana).[7]”
There are Jet mines dotted about the moors too...
Some of the small shops sell Jet jewellery apparently made popular by Queen Victoria in mourning, because it was Jet black...
DT
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 06:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The first wide-scale planting in the UK took place in 1850. Logan's specimens would have been planted about then. Benmore's would not have been planted until the 1940's as it was a forestry commission estate until it was taken over by the RBGE.
If you are interested take a look at these videos
www.ft.com/content/2298f8dc-dfbf-11e2-9de6-00144feab7de
www.monumentaltrees.com/en/content/benmore/
http://www.rbge.org.uk/the-gardens/benmore/
“as it was a forestry commission estate until it was taken over by the RBGE.”
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 07:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The hell it was...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benmore_Botanic_Garden
One of the advantages (or disadvantages) of living in Chicureo, is that the lots average a half hectare. I have lots of trees planted. The Araucaria (Monkeypuzzle) tree is very common in generally Southern Chile. I have one in my backyard. I also have two Ceiba trees planted as they have beautiful flowers. (Very susceptible to frosts however)
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 08:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Voice
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think you will find that we are both right except my date was wrong. My memory from childhood was faulty and I did not check the exact dates, which I still cannot find.
I knew you would jump in to correct me if I was in error...thank you.
However, the garden was gifted to the nation and the forestry commission took over the woodlands....the area of the hillside. The RBGE were gifted the old garden area..from the golden gates past the house to the boundary where the gallery is situated, some years later.
The Botanics started transferring some of their old collection from Glenbranter to Benmore.
When The Forestry moved out...I think in the 1940's the RBGE took over and started planting the hillside mainly with Rhododendron. The labels on the larger specimens seem to be mainly in the 1950's. I have photographed the lot over a 25 year period. My brother spent a fortnight there in 1948 learning about forestry work in the Larch plantation on the hillside.
If you ask your pal Peter Baxter, he will no doubt be able to give you a more accurate picture of its history. He wasn't about on Monday when I was there.or I could have asked him myself
Yeah... both right Clyde...just keeping you on your toes...the Commission utilised both sides of the road Pucks Glen and the Benmore slopes right up to Bernice and still do... mostly big Douglas Fir and Hemlock on the Paper Caves side and have still retained it...
Nov 02nd, 2017 - 11:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think the Larch was the Hybrid variety....the Japanese and European cross which was all the rage back then...great for Stobs and rails and still is...
The question is why is this piece appearing in Mercopenguin, a British government propaganda organ supposedly devoted to America, South America and the “South Atlantic”?
Nov 03rd, 2017 - 02:42 am - Link - Report abuse -2Don't worry, Hepathetica, the spares will be returned within 25 years.
Nov 03rd, 2017 - 03:15 am - Link - Report abuse +1The Larches, as you say, are hybrids. They were planted to see the feasibility of commercial plantations as a source of timber. The plan is to clear them over time and plant more ornamental species from seed collected in Japan and Tasmania.
Nov 03rd, 2017 - 10:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0The big problem in the gardens is phytophthora infection which already has attacked some Rhododendrons and Pieris varieties. Swathes of old plants have been cleared and burned already. Luckily I have pictures of them taken decades ago.
Their worry is that it could be unseen in the crown of the Redwoods. This could result in their demise as there is no cure for it. All the RBGE gardens have a disinfectant foot mat which you paddle through on entering. The spores are water born on the wind so there is no action that can prevent it taking hold. The strange thing is that it attacks plants at random. One plant can succumb while its neighbours are free.
@Marti Llazo
Nov 03rd, 2017 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There used to be a Monkey puzzle tree outside what was the education office in Stanley.
There is one on the farm next door to this, and my late uncle lamented the fact that there was one here until WW2 when someone cut it down.
This isn't very interesting or relevant to topic but hopefully less boring than the 25 years Malvinas bullshit, possibly the most boring and pointless piece of text ever to have darkened literature's pages.
Benmore gardens looks like a nice place, shame it's so remote unless you live up there. Is it near your house Voice?
Nov 03rd, 2017 - 04:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Shame about the phytophthora, there often seems to be no treatment for plant diseases, unlike the ones that affect animals.
@Chicureo
You're lucky having so much space. Is the Ceiba related to the chorisia I mentioned? I wonder if one would grow in the UK, it would have to be able to stand a light frost.
@Pete Bog
All the trees on the Falklands were planted by humans, right? I wonder why there weren't any growing there naturally, since they clearly can grow if they are planted.
DemonTree
Nov 03rd, 2017 - 04:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yeah...part of the original estate...
Clyde
You mentioned Peter...I haven't seen him recently, but I did notice that his wee house is for sale...rather curious...
There will be a lot of rare specimens in his garden...
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/44949449?search_identifier=20878e9d7894171f0ca356a0394732ca#5iy7vXMBLPIEIwsB.97
@Voice
Nov 03rd, 2017 - 06:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lucky you. And wow, that place looks nice, and so cheap. Shame it's so far from anywhere else.
Voice
Nov 03rd, 2017 - 06:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You could make it into a small hotel. Why did he need something this size !
In my part of the world the asking price would be £1,000,000 +
I think the last time I saw him was in February, at the member's meeting. I tried looking up the staff lists and he is still shown as curator.
I was also at the Cowal Open Studios on 23 Sept. visiting Pete Beer, guitar maker at Blairmore and the Gallery by the pier. Then to Glenfinart to look at Guy Elders wood carvings and Natalie Sedgewick's jewelry....my wife went to town and it cost me a bob or two. As there was no no facility for card payment, I had to drive all the way to the Cot House to use the ATM and then all the way back.
On the journey back to Hunter's Quay, I saw a dead Northern Bottle nose whale washed up on the shore near the road to Quadmania. I took some pictures and reported the stranding to the Whale and Dolphin Socy.
Now back to the subject of the forum !!!!
This is the definitive report on the subject,if anyone can be bothered reading it.
www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Investigation-into-equipment-cannibalisation-in-the-Royal-Navy.pdf
You could've met Voice in real life, since you know the same people. Maybe you have and just don't know it.
Nov 03rd, 2017 - 07:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree
Nov 04th, 2017 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think it's the same variety as my two trees were from seedlings from Argentina. During the past 20 years the trees have suffered during cold winters, but have eventually recovered in the Spring. They are very common in Buenos Aires.
Clyde
Thanks for the link. Very interesting.
I'd like to grow one of those trees here but I suspect winters are colder than where you live. If they suffer in cold winters even without a frost then they're probably not hardy. It's a shame, they are pretty cool and unusual looking with the thorns on the trunk.
Nov 05th, 2017 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Chicureo “...my two trees were from seedlings from Argentina...”
Nov 05th, 2017 - 01:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And the SAG had no objections?
Tree: these trees grow in areas that get good snow and frost in the winter. I mentioned the ones growing at the admin centre in Torres del Paine national park where it is below 0 Celsius during the nights for much of the winter there.
Video of argies driving to Pino Hachado, mountain pass with plenty of snow and ice and those trees
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ObFY9TSFhY
Not the monkey puzzle, Marty. Chicureo said ”I also have two Ceiba trees planted as they have beautiful flowers. (Very susceptible to frosts however)”
Nov 05th, 2017 - 02:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0We can have frosts for half the year here, though it usually only goes a few degrees below zero (and it's very late this year, haven't had one yet).
Chile is very zealous about phytosanitary issues. The seedlings were from a licensed nursery. The “Monkey Puzzle” tree has no problems with freezes.
Nov 05th, 2017 - 06:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Marti l.
Nov 06th, 2017 - 11:21 am - Link - Report abuse 0The first video shows part of the route I took back from Benmore although I took the reverse trip with no snow on the road
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Khw2NOZdDg
The other video gives a view from one of the hills I have climbed in my youth.
The climber was lucky he did not sustain an injury being ill equipped without an ice axe and crampons.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=plcWJaXxTlw
Clyde
Nov 07th, 2017 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0The Rest and be Thankful....followed by The Cobbler
I was up there with a mate on Thursday before heading up to Glen Coe on the Motorbikes and looped to Inveraray then back...
I took a pic from the Rest and be Thankful without the snow, ...and that is the Cobbler in the background...
I was back up on Sunday, it was snow covered and baltic...
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4560/26368420249_36e6ee7ece_o.jpg
Voice
Nov 07th, 2017 - 11:27 am - Link - Report abuse 0You were lucky you did not try it this week. The A82 is closed until the 18th between Tarbet and Crianlarich from 08:00 to 18:00. Quite a detour ! For me it would be Aberfoyle, Callendar, Lochearnhead and then onto the A 85 before Killin and then Crianlarich.
Every road near me seems to be closed. The A78 to Greenock has diversions adding 20 minutes to the journey. The A77 at Ballantrae was closed adding well over an hour to get to Stranraer. A few weeks back we went to Edinburgh via Biggar to find that the B743 road was closed at Muirkirk .. no prior notice.. adding another 35 minutes to a journey.
You don't know what you will find when you start a journey.
P.B.'s house sale....divorce settlement ?
Is that you in the photo, Voice? If so you don't look how I imagined.
Nov 07th, 2017 - 05:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No he's bald...
Nov 07th, 2017 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Clyde
Nov 08th, 2017 - 12:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0I had a wee blether with someone in the know that works at the Benmore Outdoor Centre...
You are not wrong...apparently he's building a new house at Glendaruel with his new lady friend...
DemonTree
No that's my wee mate, he looks small next to the big adventure bikes, (he's actually 6 foot) I am the cameraman ...
The Voice
...stop projecting....
He doesn't look particularly small to me, but he does look American for some reason.
Nov 08th, 2017 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Soooooo, are you bald?
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!