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Brexit: what follows? Anybody's guess, but Tories won't yield to Corbyn
It was a Tuesday evening of high-stakes and unprecedented drama that will have an impact far beyond the UK. Prime Minister Theresa May's plan for leaving the European Union - the only one on the table - was voted down by parliament on Tuesday. And, given the constant stream of analysis and speculation, you could be forgiven for feeling a little overwhelmed by it all. Read full article
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Disclaimer & comment rulesTo the UK contributors to this news forum:
Jan 16th, 2019 - 01:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In my humble opinion, the reason your country is such a mess right now is because your Prime Minister's weak negotiation team was screwed by a ruthless and vindictive group of Eurocrats that blitzkrieged right over your proud nation's reasonable requests for separation, treating you like Greece.
This is why I think it makes the case that the No-Deal Brexit is preferable to any deal, because the EU needs and wants, for example, the 39 billion pounds it claims the UK “owes” it, and will become a lot more amenable to negotiation once it gets the sense that the UK is fine with just walking away and repudiating this alleged debt. Perhaps you should just simply tell the Eurocrat Globalists to go to Hell!
”Only a few countries are net contributors to the EU as far as taxes; most are net recipients. Of the few countries which are net contributors, the UK is the second biggest (after Germany).”
Without that 39 billion pounds from the UK, Germany, France, etc. will have to kick in more money to support the EU. Which means higher taxes.
Which will exacerbate the gilets jaunes problem for Macron and make Merkel miserable as well. Both of them have plunging popularity with their constituents.
Which means that the UK has a stronger negotiating position than the media and establishment are telling the population.
Yes, we started from the wrong place. We should just leave and talk to our EU neighbours from outside. It puts pressure on them which has been absent all along. I hope we reach that position. It's a German/French stitch up and always has been. We have no influence and should not be making any financial contribution whatsoever
Jan 16th, 2019 - 02:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0@Chicureo
Jan 16th, 2019 - 02:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Here, I found a nice analogy to help you understand May's problems delivering Brexit:
https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1072222230791229440?lang=en
Brexit was nothing but a fantasy from beginning to end, and I see TV hasn't given up his delusions yet. I just feel sorry for the UK, or at least the people who didn't vote for this disaster.
PS, the UK is not the 2 biggest net contributor, it's 3rd, and given it's also the 2nd or 3rd largest economy, that isn't too surprising. The EU will have to cut their budget or increase contributions from other members, but that's nothing compared to what we'll suffer.
DemonTree
Jan 16th, 2019 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0France is larger? Strange...
“A submarine made of cheese” perhaps is an apt description for Brexit, but it really looks like to us on the outside that you have been backed up against the wall in the corner. The Germans and French have arrogantly ganged up on you like you were a Greece or Malta...
Maybe the UK is best to get out while it can and disengage from the internal EU mess as much as possible. Increasingly, the EU has become an unaccountable, hyper-regulated political bully run by even-more unaccountable Eurocrats. At one point in the not-too-distant past, I remembered the EU actually predicted it would “leapfrog” the U.S. in growth and jobs.
Germany is weakening and France is becoming a disaster.
Chicureo I note that DT hasn't given up his fantasy either. His lot predicted the pound would slump if Mrs May lost the vote, instead the value of the pound went up!!! DT is like a frightened rabbit in headlights he listens to and believes all the scare stories (known as Project Fear). There are lots like him...intelligent idiots with no experience or common sense whatsoever. They are Britain's problem. If it wasnt for them we would have been out long ago.
Jan 16th, 2019 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Voice
Jan 16th, 2019 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You have to allow for DemonTree's reasonable concerns that obviously are shared by many of his countrymen. The expectations I see on BBC is that May will survive today's vote after losing historically yesterday. (If she's defeated today, ...then we'll see a circus...)
I do, perhaps foolishly, think that a “hardBrexit” will not result in catastrophe because the financial losses of punishing the UK will cause an equally unpalatable damage to the European continent.
I went to a website to confirm the UK was third, but what I saw is that actually the UK as a net contributor to the EU as far as taxes is second, only to Germany being first.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Main_Page
...I also foolishly think the multinational corporations will “soldier on” no matter what happens because money is money... DemonTree does have however reason for serious concern.
@Chicureo
Jan 16th, 2019 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The Germans and French have arrogantly ganged up on you like you were a Greece or Malta...”
British policy since the beginning has been to prevent Europe uniting against us. With a divided Europe we always held the balance of power. Now our own ill-informed population have done what Napoleon and Hitler both failed to. :(
May lost the vote on her deal, but survived the no confidence motion, as predicted (and I never saw anyone saying the £ would slump, it has risen because the overly optimistic traders think we might not leave after all). It's a shit-show; our MPs are acting like headless chickens, May keeps soldiering on despite her failure, and Corbyn is only interested in the next election and not the good of the country. It isn't enough that my fellow citizens are gullible idiots who voted for a cheese submarine, but our politicians are also parading their incompetence in front of the whole world.
Re net contributors, it depends how it's calculated:
https://english.eu.dk/en/faq/net-contribution#
Your link just goes to the front page which is fairly useless.
Also, UK was the second biggest economy before the referendum; we have slipped to third behind France since, mostly due to the dramatic fall in the pound.
@TV
You appear to be suffering from cognitive dissonance knowing that most intelligent, successful people voted against Brexit. Are you going to adopt communist rhetoric about the bourgeoisie undermining the country? Please remember how well that worked out in the various countries that tried it...
DemonTree
Jan 16th, 2019 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0First, the link to the front page was to show you the source and by that link you may make several options of information.
Your perspective of how the UK was a balance of power makes perfect sense and it was your democratic referendum that decided to leave the EU.
The problem I personally see is that the Eurocrats vastly out negotiated the UK with terms that your Parliament overwhelmingly rejected. Today as you know May will remain as PM, but all the commentators are expressing sincere doubt that the EU will now renegotiate. So what happens next? ¡Que lástima!
It's now a zero sum game.
Interestingly the Americans are also in a very dissimilar situation where each side refuses to offer terms acceptable. I think however, Trump is going to win in the end because he thrives as a cutthroat unpredictable take-no-prisoners marauder.
...In the end Lucifer Trump vs Beelzebub Pelosi...
It's the timing that's the problem. March is not far away now and the EU would have to get 27 countries to agree to a new deal (and how ironic that 27 countries did agree, the EU working together and standing up for its members, while we are still arguing among ourselves over what we want).
Jan 17th, 2019 - 12:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0But even if we asked them for an extension, the Irish border problem isn't going to go away. That's the real sticking point. And Corbyn's demands are just as unrealistic as May's were, so even if we held a new election and Labour won it probably wouldn't help. Though at least he wouldn't be beholden to the DUP; they hate his guts.
As for Trump and his shutdown, he should've offered the Dems something in exchange for wall funding. It's the American people who are suffering over it.
After all the problems South America has had, do you enjoy seeing the so-called civilised countries making fools of themselves?
DemonTree & The Voice
Jan 17th, 2019 - 03:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Interesting essay on the Gates of Vienna blog concerning the current state of affairs in Great Britain:
“And so, they are doing it, and are taking the first steps to herd We the People of the UK down the road to perdition. There is no surprise here, because this parliament is the most wretched collection of mendacious self-servers, unconvicted criminals, freeloaders, sexual deviants and morally destitute poseurs assembled in the Palace of Westminster since 1653, and it is no longer material which way or how they vote, abstain, waffle, equivocate, and delay.”
...To steal a bit from Lewis Carroll:
“The time has come,” the Walrus said,
“To talk of many things:
Of shoes--and ships--and sealing-wax--
Of cabbages--and kings--
And why the sea is boiling hot--
And whether pigs have wings.”
“But wait a bit,” the Oysters cried,
“Before we have our chat;
For some of us are out of breath,
And all of us are fat!”
“No hurry!” said the Carpenter.
They thanked him much for that.
(At the end of the poem, the Eurocrat Walrus and Carpenter seem to be quite content, but the British Oysters seemed to have somehow disappeared...)
What on earth have you been reading, Chicureo? Sounds completely nuts. You know I think Brexit's a terrible idea, but it's not the bloody apocalypse!
Jan 17th, 2019 - 03:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree
Jan 17th, 2019 - 05:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As I said, I was referring to an essay concerning an alternative perspective regarding the current UK debate. I added a portion of Lewis Carroll for illumination.
https://gatesofvienna.net/2019/01/end-of-days/#more-47516
”...For over two years, month after month, day after day they have stood and pontificated, wallowing righteously in a sea of vacuous platitudes and imagined threats whilst dragging the House and the nation into a Slough of Despond deeper than Bunyan himself could have imagined. Most of them cannot even deliver a coherent speech without the use of written texts, and even then the result of their verbal incontinence is painful to the eye and ear of those who have steeled themselves to watch and listen.
History will record them as unfit for any purpose other than their own enrichment and the survival of themselves and their comrades in the Globalist International; they are totally without virtue and ridden with vice — my old dog has more integrity and loyalty than they, even though he also is an inveterate bum sniffer and leg lifter who urinates on everything contrary to his own world view.
Indeed, few of this sordid clan could lie straight on the Rack, never mind present as anything resembling pillars of rectitude. Betrayal is their watchword, and the adulation of their acolytes and (EU) paymasters their bread of life. Moreover, as May & Co signed us up to the UN Migration Pact, then this whole Brexit debacle, however it turns out, will be of no long-term consequence, as global Muslim psychopaths together with feral sub-Saharan primitives will soon flood in to try to finish us off once and for all.
It is now glaringly obvious that We the People are of no consequence to those we have elected to represent us, simply irritants to be ignored after each election day. Thus those who govern are no longer of consequence to us, either, so let us be done with the lot of them and start again no matter how difficult and painful that may be....”
Okay, so it's the usual racist conspiracy theory written in an OTT literary style. Why do people believe this claptrap?
Jan 17th, 2019 - 06:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree
Jan 17th, 2019 - 07:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No, I wasn't posting it because of its apparent racial bias, but instead to broaden the debate with an alternative perspective.
As Lewis Carroll wrote:
“But I don’t want to go among mad people,“ Alice remarked.
”Oh, you can’t help that,“ said the Cat: ”we’re all mad here. I’m mad. You’re mad.“
”How do you know I’m mad?“ said Alice.
”You must be,“ said the Cat, ”or you wouldn’t have come here.”
You may as well have brought in the Marxist perspective. This sort of overwrought paranoia would belong in the same category as birthers, truthers, and moon landing conspiracy theorists, if it weren't that it motivates murderers. Who would have thought a simple idea could inspire so many millions of deaths?
Jan 17th, 2019 - 09:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree
Jan 17th, 2019 - 11:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In the Signal Corps we were schooled to question everything and make no assumptions and remain vigilant. They say you should always be open to alternative narrations...
You mention conspiracy theorists imaginations going wild. In my early radio monitoring days as an ensign, my yeoman found a strong signal on the long wave band that we'd never heard before. I was way out in the dark sea, far from shore so no interference from anything else. The the lieutenant the bridge then reported strange blinking lights in the sky too. We seriously thought it was an UFO, resulting franticly waking our captain. ...later we found out it was an aircraft navigation beacon.
“They say you should always be open to alternative narrations...”
Jan 18th, 2019 - 12:35 am - Link - Report abuse 0They also say 'don't keep your mind so open that your brain falls out'. :) I skimmed your essay and it's too separated from reality to contain anything useful.
And LOL at your story. You were right, it was a UFO... until you identified it. It's kind of sad that now everyone carries cameras around with them everywhere, we can be sure all these supernatural things are just myths.
Well, it's playing out. The Germans are pleading with us to stay. We would if we were allowed to scrap the edict that anyone from the EU can come here. But, the EU won't have that. They are trying to get Article 50 extended. I hope we won't fall for that because it's our biggest bargaining chip...or else no deal! It would even then be suboptimal, we can't choose who to trade with, but I think we could live with that.
Jan 18th, 2019 - 04:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Fiona Bruce showed everyone what an idiot Abbot is. To see her in charge of Police and Security would be frightening and Chavez loving Corbyn..the scariest thing of all, but DT and his ilk swallow the lot..!
Ah, TV. Is it that you refuse to read, or to understand? In this thread I criticised Corbyn twice, yet you fantasise that I support him. Your understanding of Brexit is just as woeful; it's obvious you won't believe the truth until you see the damage with your own eyes, and even then you'll blame the EU for something *you* chose and supported all the way. When are you going to join us in the real world?
Jan 18th, 2019 - 06:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Globalists are laughing at the Britsh people and openly demeaning them.
Jan 19th, 2019 - 05:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“French President Emmanuel Macron spoke out at the town hall meeting in Normandy”... claiming the British people were “manipulated” into voting for Brexit because of “fake news” throughout the EU referendum.The French leader spoke out following the British Parliament’s historic defeat of Prime Minister Theresa May’s soft Brexit agreement... “The first losers of [No Deal Brexit] would be the British,” Macron said.“It’s a referendum that has been manipulated, manipulated from outside by a lot of what we call fake news, where everything and anything was said,” he continued.
People have been laughing at us ever since the referendum. It's embarrassing. :(
Jan 20th, 2019 - 06:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Commenting for this story is now closed.
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