MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Dam burst in Brazil: Police arrests five engineers responsible for environment impact licenses
Police in Brazil have arrested five people as part of an investigation into Friday's dam collapse in Brumadinho. At least 65 people died and 300 remain unaccounted for, when toxic sludge engulfed a company canteen and neighboring residential buildings. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesThey're trying to blame a German engineering firm. It can only be Jewish!
Jan 30th, 2019 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Brasshole
Jan 30th, 2019 - 04:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As your name indicates, you are an......
Brasileiro, don't be an idiot. They'd blame anyone that they can think of.
Jan 30th, 2019 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/21/former-minister-and-advisor-confirms-payments-of-bribes-in-hand-to-lula-da-silva/comments#comment497655
“But not all dictators are fascist” Aha! The smell of desperation. But you can't offer any examples. Since you can offer no authority for your claim. I can place it in the unproven, and untrue files.
Yet another Anti Semitic National Socialist Communist reveals themselves. A worthy candidate to turn the “Torturer's Tango Duo” into the “Torturer's Tango Trio.”
Jan 31st, 2019 - 04:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0@Dumkopf
Jan 31st, 2019 - 07:55 am - Link - Report abuse 0Are you blind as well as stupid? I gave two examples, Stalin and Castro.
REF: “Police arrests five engineers”:
Jan 31st, 2019 - 08:57 am - Link - Report abuse +1May someone [from the Top] have ordered these 5 execs to permit the environmental impact licenses?
https://www.otempo.com.br/image/contentid/policy:1.2129367:1548887960/CHARGE%20O%20TEMPO.JPG?f=3x2&w=620&$p$f$w=ac4ac92
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 09:44 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I gave two examples...” You really painted yourself into a corner, since you cannot claim a dictatorship that is communist could be was the intent of JB, who is fervently anti-communist.
50 Jack Bauer; “Military taking over again, ….. they did it to prevent Brazil from being handed over to the communists. ... the Military , I hope, would be there again to save Brazil
Brazil remembers the 50th anniversary of the coupe…
JB “The military option was better than the communist”
“Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!” Walter Scott
Thanks for confirming the falsity of your claim, and JB's support of fascism.
Apparently, clear sighted enough to show you two in your true light.
You said that I didn't offer any examples, revealing yourself as an idiot and a liar yet again.
Jan 31st, 2019 - 10:06 am - Link - Report abuse 0Now, do you admit that some dictatorships are fascist, and some are not?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 10:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Now, do you ...” The lure worked, as I was able to clearly demonstrate your deception and that JB is in fact a fascist, and you are his lying apologist.
Okay, you didn't deny it and since you believe silence means consent, that means you do admit it.
Jan 31st, 2019 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0Therefore, you admit that supporting a dictatorship does NOT make someone a fascist, and you lied about Jack Bauer.
QED
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 10:40 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Therefore ...QED” Hardly, the evidence clearly shows his support for a military facist dictatorship, and reveals you both as unmitigated liars.
Military dictatorship is not the same thing as fascist government. Even if some people would describe the dictatorship in Brazil as fascist, many would not, and JB is part of the latter group. He was telling the truth as he sees it.
Jan 31st, 2019 - 10:58 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 11:31 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Military dictatorship is not the....” Aha the endless equivocations, you're busted chump.
“He was telling the truth...” He's a fascist convicted with his own words. “Military taking over again, ….. they did it to prevent Brazil from being handed over to the communists. ... the Military , I hope, would be there again to save Brazil “
So both proven liars.
”After overthrowing the reformist center-left government of João Goulart on March 31, 1964, ... The product of a conspiracy involving Brazilian social and political groups supported by the United States government, the 1964 coup fits into two distinct historical contexts. At the international level, given its forceful anticommunism, it reflected the impact of the Cold War on Brazilian politics and society.1 Domestically, the coup was the result of an authoritarian, exclusionary, and conservative political culture disseminated among the civilian and military elite since the establishment of the republic in 1889.
The Brazilian Military Regime,...
http://oxfordre.com/latinamericanhistory/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199366439.001.0001/acrefore-9780199366439-e-413
From Wikipedia:
Jan 31st, 2019 - 11:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0”It is often a matter of dispute whether a certain government is to be characterized as fascist (radical authoritarian nationalism), authoritarian, totalitarian, or a police state. The term “fascism” itself is controversial, and has been defined in various ways by different authors. Many of the regimes and movements discussed in this article can be considered fascist according to some definitions but not according to others.”
As you can see, people do not generally agree on which governments are fascist. Your unsupported opinion means nothing.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“It is often a matter of dispute...” Wiki is not always a credible source. What is not in dispute. “.. regime that Latin America first sees torture and death squads, ..both underwritten by the US. Chomsky and Herman, The Washington Connection and Third World Fascism.
Dan Mitrione begins his career in Brazil, the ”Office of Public Safety“ training over 100,000 policemen, in addition to 523 receiving more advanced instruction in the US. US Agency for International Development, 1971 report
Tortures range from simple but brutal blows from a truncheon to electric shocks. Often the torture is more refined: the end of a reed is placed in the anus of a naked man hanging suspended downwards on the pau de arara [parrots perch] and a piece of cotton soaked in petrol is lit at the other end of the reed. Pregnant women are forced to watch their husbands being tortured. Other wives are hung naked beside their husbands and given electric shocks on the sexual parts of their body, while subjected to the worst kind of obscenities. Children are tortured before their parents and vice versa. At least one child, the three month old baby of Vergilio Gomes da Silva is reported to have died under police torture. The length of sessions depends upon the resistance capacity of the victims and have sometimes continued for days at a time. Amnesty International, 1974
”Judge Agamemnon Duarte indicates that the CCC [Commandos to Hunt Communists, a death squad armed and aided by the police] and the CIA are implicated in the murder of Father Henrique Neto. He admits that the American Secret Service (CIA) is behind the CCC.“ Jornal do Brazil, 5/25/72”
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~lormand/poli/soa/brazil.htm
fascism - authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, militarism;
Dictionary Version 2.2.2 (203.1) Copyright © 2005–2017 Apple Inc.
A fascist by any other name is still a fascist.
Folks, there is no point in blaming 1 certain political party or ONE certain politician [who is obviously, blatantly corrupt & yet blessed by the brainwashed ignorants] or another; even after knowing that they ALL belong to the SAME class of parasites. They are simply doing their job for which they were elected - the job of milking the Country! Just look around & you'll know!
Jan 31st, 2019 - 02:50 pm - Link - Report abuse +1@The Liar
Jan 31st, 2019 - 02:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Frustratingly, I can't give a simple definition,” says Kevin Passmore, reader in history at Cardiff University and author of Fascism: A Very Short Introduction. “It depends on definitions.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8316271.stm
It's complicated, and there is a lot of academic debate. JB won't deny saying he preferred the military to take over, or any of those other things you love to quote. But the name fascist is a matter of opinion, which no one agrees on.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 03:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But the name fascist is a matter of opinion, which no one agrees on.”
fascism - authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, militarism;
Unfortunately, the dictionary holds a very definite opinion
Dictionary Version 2.2.2 (203.1) Copyright © 2005–2017 Apple Inc.
A fascist by any other name is still a fascist.
“A fascist by any other name is still a fascist.”
Jan 31st, 2019 - 03:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And yet that name is exactly what you have spent all this time quibbling about. As I said, JB does not deny supporting the military, he only disagrees on the name.
And Stalin's dictatorship fits all of those dictionary definitions. Castro too. Are you going to accuse everyone supporting Castro of being a fascist?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“he only disagrees on the name.” That's because he's a consummate liar that has a been revealed innumerable times
fascist “a person who advocates a particular viewpoint or practice in a manner perceived as intolerant or authoritarian.”
OED v4.0.app
A fascist by any other name is still a fascist.
So what? Your definition has nothing to do with the military government and does not apply to Jack, so evidently you are lying by accusing him of fascism.
Jan 31st, 2019 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 06:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“So what?” My sentiment exactly concerning JB as he's a consummate liar, that has a been revealed innumerable times.
“The idea that toilet paper cannot be flushed down toilets, is true in only 'parts”
Is absolutely false as besides myself, four other sites have confirmed. While as usual you cannot produce any support for your claim, which therefore confirms your assertion is untrue.
http://www.wheredoiputthepaper.com.
http://www.wheredoiputthepaper.comcopress. com/2017/07/20/ex-brazilian-president-assets-and-bank-accounts-frozen/comments#comment471252
A fascist by any other name is still a fascist. Birds of a feather flock together.
REF: “Police arrests five engineers”:
Jan 31st, 2019 - 06:15 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Purely unnecessary - NOBODY is responsible, anyway!
DT (Contn of “Bolsonaro and Macri agree...”)
Jan 31st, 2019 - 06:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”And when you're not living under threat of communism? Yr quote was fm Dilma's 2nd term, ‘n altho Brazil had problems at the time (and still does), there was no chance of a communist takeover.”. Agree, but the govt’s – ‘n the PT’s - unconditional support of Maduro was just one more component of the political/economic crisis which exploded a bit later…No one knew where the country was heading, so the military, discretely, let the government know they were ‘observing’.
Under such circumstances, with people uncertain what the future reserved for them - the continuation of a semblance of democracy, or a tilt towards Bolivarian socialism - many saw the military as an alternative and the last resort to maintain law & order, preferable to what we were seeing in VZ. It’s simple, when faced with 2 alternatives, you pick what you see as less disruptive.
The hair was just an example to show that, imo, capitalism in itself is not a political ideology, although it can be perverted by ideology (ex : PT in favour of State-run cos, ‘n nationalizing parts of the economy…making it far less efficient, ‘n giving them more leverage).
All economic regimes have their faults, ‘n capitalism‘s is when govt does nothing to prevent abuses…and when it’s State-capitalism (USSR) ? who is going to prevent abuses of the State ?
As imperfect as it may be, capitalism (provided not ‘savage’) is still the best system. When man creates a system in which people are free to exercise their talent, reap their fair rewards, in a free society, with ‘zero’ abuse, I’ll stand behind it.
Afaic, corruption IS definitely cultural. Bribe a cop in the UK ?…unlikely, it’s not the culture.
“Revindicate & claim” : Can see your point - “claim” is probably used more often in the UK, but perhaps I used ‘revindicate,’ as in Portuguese it expresses exactly what I intended to convey. Re the newsletter, better without “como” (pleonasm).
Forget Terryble stupid Terry !
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Jan 31st, 2019 - 08:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Forget ... Terry !”
Since JB is accountable, and his accountability means the rejection of his claim under 'The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation', Charlotte Jørgensen
“FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, ...Over the last decades, the notion of intentionality has been challenged from various theoretical perspectives within rhetoric and argumentation.”
So he and you are accountable, nobody has to do anything other than show what he has stated, there's no escape or deniability. That makes him a fascist. Your unsupported opinion means nothing.
@JB
Jan 31st, 2019 - 08:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe it wasn't clear at the time, but there was a big difference between Dilma and Maduro. Look how Maduro's supreme court rubber stamps everything he asks them, whereas Dilma's voted against Lula's HC and let him go to jail. Dilma gave the prosecutors more freedom, whereas Maduro stuck opposition politicians in jail. And the PT never tried anything half as crazy as Chavez's economic policies, they were pretty middle-of-the-road economically and mostly ignored their radical wing. Their major problem was a lack of action on eg the pensions issue, and, of course, the corruption.
Re capitalism, I suppose really it's an economic system, as compared to eg feudalism, communism or whatever the heck the Incas used. But economics and politics are closely related. As for nationalising companies, Chile's copper mines have been nationalised since before Pinochet, and they are now one of the richest countries in South America. Often it's a bad idea, but not always. Anyway, I agree capitalism is the best system for here and now. (And I have long hair, but it's definitely not an ideology. ;) )
“corruption IS definitely cultural”
Well then, it's not purely a choice. Or rather, people make choices depending on what is socially acceptable and what they can get away with. So if you change that you can change how they act.
Our newsletter was done by the NZ team last week, so there is no bad English to compare. But if I was writing in Spanish, I might also include optional words to try and make it clearer. I wonder what would give away that someone writing Portuguese was English? I can guess some common mistakes - screwing up the genders and numbers of words, for example, but would other language speakers do that too? I think most European languages have genders, even if they're all different.
@Liar
He can only be held accountable for what he said, and he never said he's a fascist. In fact he said the opposite, surely you know that? You've quoted it enough times.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Jan 31st, 2019 - 09:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“He can only be held accountable for what he said, ... In fact he said the opposite” Where is this exactly?
”Military taking over again, ….. they did it to prevent Brazil from being handed over to the communists. ... the Military , I hope, would be there again to save Brazil “
fascism - authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, militarism;
Dictionary Version 2.2.2 (203.1) Copyright © 2005–2017 Apple Inc.
fascist “a person who advocates a particular viewpoint or practice in a manner perceived as intolerant or authoritarian.” OED v4.0.app
A fascist by any other name is still a fascist. Birds of a feather flock together.
I assume that you refer to a country where even a crook gets elected. So NOTHING is impossible!
Jan 31st, 2019 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DT
Feb 01st, 2019 - 05:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agree. Big difference btwn Dilma ‘n Maduro - to start with, the Judiciary manages to maintain its (relative) independence fm Legislative & Executive branches. Maduro just sacked previous Supreme Court judges, replacing them with his cronies…unheard of here…or, if it happened, so would sh*t.
Just a correction : Lula went to jail under Temer.
Institutions here are far stronger than they may appear to outsiders, ‘n any undue interference in the Judiciary, as in VZ, wouldn’t succeed. The PT’s long term plan, like a silent revolution, was to slowly obtain more ‘n more control over the State and it’s institutions.
Of course politics ‘n the economy are closely related. Maintaining certain “strategic” companies, such as the Itaipú hydroelectric power Co., under govt control, makes sense as Paraguay is a partner ; but to nationalize what is traditionally better run by the private sector, or to have State-run companies (acting as virtual monopolies) competing with the private sector, ‘n being maintained by the taxpayer makes no sense…except to the PT.
I know your hair-style is not an ideology, reason why I used it to show that neither is capitalism.
Corruption is part of the culture, thus ‘cultural’, which does not mean you cannot “choose” to be honest. The fact most choose not to be, is just too bad. To change the corrupt mentality of at least 50% of Congress, ‘n much of the elite – who use it to become rich ‘n powerful – is an uphill battle, one that while Congress holds the knife ‘n cheese in its hands, we are not going to win. Idealism has no place in Congress.
“…what would give away that someone writing Portuguese was English?” easy, mixing up genders, tons of spelling mistakes 'n no idea how to conjugate verbs (to express person, tense etc). I know several English people, been here for years, but their Portuguese remains lousy. While most Europeans have an accent easy to trace while speaking Portuguese, think the English are the worst (LOL).
REF: Dam burst in Brazil: Old Story + New Facts OR Old Facts + New Story from Bloomberg:
Feb 01st, 2019 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-02-01/brazil-s-mine-disaster-reveals-its-shaky-foundation?srnd=opinion&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-view&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=view&utm_medium=social
@JB
Feb 01st, 2019 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Maduro just sacked previous Supreme Court judges, replacing them with his cronies…unheard of here”
I guess that would have provoked pushback, but even so a majority of judges on the SFT today were appointed by Lula and Dilma. If they wanted to pack the court with cronies, they had the chance (and Lula maybe did to some degree, but I think Dilma was more idealistic).
I found this book about the corruption in the PT, the part in the previous is an interesting read and maybe answers some of the questions I had:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Y1pDDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT69&lpg=PT69&dq=pt+caught+by+institutions+they+strengthened&source=bl&ots=fZTsbv8l76&sig=ACfU3U2smuNodoO7HKdv1-FMgxhe0oipkw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiokb_OnJvgAhWBsnEKHVmtBQ0Q6AEwAXoECAMQAQ#v=onepage&q=pt%20caught%20by%20institutions%20they%20strengthened&f=false
As for hairstyles, they're not ideology but they can be linked to it. If you'd grown yours long in the 60s, wouldn't people have thought you were a hippy?
RE corruption, I remember you mentioned a guy from Europe who made a fuss about paying bribes to exporters and was promptly shipped back home. So did you really have a choice if you wanted to keep your job? Also, don't know if it applies to Brazil, but I have heard that in Mexico public servants are given the choice of taking a bribe from the cartel or taking a bullet. Not a difficult decision.
“think the English are the worst”
Oh dear. It is hard, though. Why d'you need SO many conjugations? Not to mention an excessive number of pronouns - I imagine mixing up all the different ways to say 'you' is another giveaway? And it doesn't apply in writing, but I find the nasal sounds really hard to pronounce.
@The Liar
How should I know where he said it? You're the obsessive weirdo who's quoted him eleventy-billion times, find it yourself.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 01st, 2019 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“How should I know where he said it?” So he didn't, no proof, no truth. You can't use intent as a defence as it's barred.
He is completely revealed as a fascist under dictionaries definitions. With the end result of both of you being exposed as complete liars, thanks. Keep living up to your nickname.
Well, why are you accusing JB of lying if he never said he wasn't a fascist? You're so idiotic it's physically painful talking to you.
Feb 01st, 2019 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 01st, 2019 - 10:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“he never said he wasn't a fascist” His denial is right here, as it's not an agreement. “Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither.”
plato.stanford.edu/entries/states-of-affairs/
JB “Your insistence that I'm a fascist”
Brazil's corruption scandals reach Lula da Silva: ...
Coupled with his failure to deny.
Thus, who keeps silent consents; silence means consent; silent consent is same as expressed consent; consent by conduct is as good as expressed consent. This is an implied term in law....”
Soma's Dictionary Of Latin Quotations Maxims And Phrases
Keep living up to your nickname
See, I knew you could quote it. :D You're pathetically susceptible to reverse psychology.
Feb 01st, 2019 - 10:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And according to the N. Y. Times:
Feb 01st, 2019 - 11:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/world/americas/trump-hotel-brazil-corruption.html
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 01st, 2019 - 11:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“He never said he wasn't a fascist” Then if you are now reversing your self, and he readily accepts the truth. It follows your defence of him makes you a fascist apologiser, thanks for the confirmation. Keep living up to your nickname.
@ :o))
Feb 02nd, 2019 - 01:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Flávio Bolsonaro shared a picture on social media calling Mr. Figueiredo a “successful businessman with good sense and a highly qualified political vision.””
Of course! No one can be considered successful in today's Brazil unless they have been charged with corruption
@Terryble Liar
You misquoted me again, Liar. But now you mention it, that quote *doesn't* say he isn't a fascist. I think that makes 3 separate ways you're wrong. Congrats!
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 02nd, 2019 - 05:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0“You misquoted me again...” No I didn't http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/30/dam-burst-in-brazil-police-arrests-five-engineers-responsible-for-environment-impact-licenses/comments#comment497734
But then your deliberate obfuscation is something else you share with the fascist, dishonesty.
“People call it arguing out of both sides of your mouth,“ The Purposeful Argument: A Practical Guide By Harry Phillips, Patricia Bostian.
“He is not to be heard who alleges things contradictory to each other.” This elementary rule of logic expresses, in technical language, the saying that a man shall not be permitted to “blow hot and cold” with reference to the same transaction, or insist, at different times, on the truth of each of two conflicting allegations, according to the promptings of his private interest. Keep living up to your nickname.
“he readily accepts the truth”
Feb 02nd, 2019 - 08:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0There you go, you admitted he's not a liar.
@DemonTree
Feb 02nd, 2019 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “No one can be considered successful in today's Brazil unless they have been charged with corruption”:
I heard that it already HAS become a Status-Symbol to be considered as corrupt! Unless one is corrupt; he/she is forbidden from receiving attention, respect & admiration = the well-known iconic parasites [who keep crowding the political circles (& NOBODY minds)].
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 02nd, 2019 - 02:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“There you go, you admitted he's not a liar.” No I haven't what has been revealed is you're both liars But then your deliberate obfuscation is something else you share with the fascist, besides lying.
“People call it arguing out of both sides of your mouth,“ The Purposeful Argument: A Practical Guide By Harry Phillips, Patricia Bostian.
“He is not to be heard who alleges things contradictory to each other.” This elementary rule of logic expresses, in technical language, the saying that a man shall not be permitted to “blow hot and cold” with reference to the same transaction, or insist, at different times, on the truth of each of two conflicting allegations, according to the promptings of his private interest. Keep living up to your nickname.
Yeah you did, you said he readily accepts the truth.
Feb 02nd, 2019 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 02nd, 2019 - 05:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Yeah you did, ..” Which your claim is 'fraud by omission.' As I am clearly attributing that statement to yourself “Then if you are now reversing your self,..” Keep living up to your nickname.
Exactly. Your partial quote of me was also fraud by omission. They are exactly the same.
Feb 02nd, 2019 - 06:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage“
Feb 02nd, 2019 - 07:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0”Your partial quote of me was also ...” Where?
Your claim of 'fraud by omission.' Is a clear indication that by continuing to resort to fraud you've lost this issue. So thanks for the confirmation that JB is in fact a fascist.
The REAL Issue which NOBODY cares about - I think:
Feb 03rd, 2019 - 09:15 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.otempo.com.br/image/contentid/policy:1.2128852:1548799446/CHARGE%20O%20TEMPO.JPG?f=3x2&w=620&$p$f$w=ac4ac92
@JB
Feb 03rd, 2019 - 10:49 am - Link - Report abuse 0This looks interesting - a different approach to preventing violence. Getting anyone to fund it would be the biggest problem:
https://mosaicscience.com/story/violence-crime-knife-chicago-glasgow-gang-epidemic-gun-health-prevention/
Vale Executives Knew About Risk Of Dam Collapsing But Dismissed It
Feb 03rd, 2019 - 12:42 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The emergency plan showed that Vale managers were aware that the mine's main building and cafeteria would be hit in the case of an accident
https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/internacional/en/brazil/2019/02/vale-executives-knew-about-risk-of-dam-collapsing-but-dismissed-it.shtml
Why Trollence , what was your first clue? :o)) has been saying that all along. Try drinking coffee in the morning, instead of mixing it with hard liquor at night...
Feb 04th, 2019 - 04:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0@DT / @TH / @JB:
Feb 04th, 2019 - 08:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Dam-Burst in Brazil”:
According to The Guardian; Mariana, Brumadinho, etc are NOTHING in comparison the Dam-Bursting that is about to take place:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/01/it-smells-dirty-scandals-loom-over-bolsonaro-after-first-month-in-office
@DT
Feb 04th, 2019 - 07:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...but even so a majority of STF judges today were appointed by Lula, Dilma. If they wanted to pack the court with cronies...”
Altho I wouldn't appoint them, the appointments were legal...after others were obliged to step down due to age...so no substituting judges at will.
Hairstyles are just a style, hardly (a political) ideology, even if meant to be different, to shock people, send a message...the more my parents insisted I cut my hair, the less I did.
The PT link didn't open, neither by googling it, but by the title “Pt caught by the institutions they strengthened” I can imagine the content - cramming Ministries, public agencies and State-run companies with their cronies....to make 'things' run 'smoother'.
Re bribery, yr “So did you really have a choice if you wanted to keep your job?”
Most definitely.....you can choose to play along, denounce it or get the hell out. You always have a choice, which does not imply the consequences will be nice. Yr example of public servants in Mexico is rather extreme, but an easy decision in a life or death situation.
My English friends who arrived here as grown ups all find Portuguese a pain in the neck....an Australian friend just refused to learn Portuguese - he saw no point, as most of his contacts spoke English...many a time I had to take him to the bank because he couldn't even communicate with the teller.
Unfortunately, must now waste a few seconds on Terryble Terry ;
He thinks I'm a fascist ? I've never expressed such a thing....What I did say, was I supported the military regime, after it took over in 1964, in view of the other possible alternative. In 2013 (?) again, when it looked like Dilma was leading Brazil down the Bolivarian path of destruction...He even thinks a dictionary can define me (LOL).
His “who keeps silent consents” is bs...his posts are too stupid to reply to.
His “or insist, at different times, on the truth of each of two conflicting allegations”; asked him to show where, but he can't..
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Feb 04th, 2019 - 08:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I supported the military regime,” which is enough to define you as a fascist. Since you are accountable, and your accountability means the rejection of your claim that your not under 'The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation', Charlotte Jørgensen
“FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, ...the notion of intentionality has been challenged from various theoretical perspectives within rhetoric and argumentation.”
Nobody has to do anything other than show what you have stated, there's no escape or deniability.
“He even thinks a dictionary can define me” Hmm, fascism - authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, militarism;
Dictionary Version 2.2.2 (203.1) Copyright © 2005–2017 Apple Inc.
fascist “a person who advocates a particular viewpoint or practice in a manner perceived as intolerant or authoritarian.” OED v4.0.app
A fascist by any other name is still a fascist.
“or insist, at different times ...“ Wasn't addressed to you, nor have you ever ”asked him(me) to show where,” as you can't yourself show where this occurred; no proof, no truth.
“after others were obliged to step down due to age...so no substituting judges at will.”
Feb 04th, 2019 - 08:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, other governments in other countries have tried to weaken these institutions by eg changing the law on when supreme court judges retire. Even in the USA the Republican party managed to cheat the system and steal a nomination; It's a dangerous situation for Americans now.
“the more my parents insisted I cut my hair, the less I did.”
Heh, that's not an ideology, sounds more like teenage rebellion. But yeah, I guess when they are politicised it's just designed to send a message.
“you can choose to play along, denounce it or get the hell out”
I guess, but if just one person denounces it then it won't make a difference. Do you think you should have spoken up about it?
“an Australian friend just refused to learn Portuguese”
That's crazy, how can you live in a country and not even try to learn the language? I'm surprised you didn't tell him to deal with it on his own. My friend who moved to Germany can speak the language fine, even though most of his colleagues also speak English. Though I do have an acquaintance who moved to Sweden, sponged off his Swedish boyfriend and spent all his time complaining he couldn't get a job because the Swedish government wouldn't give him free language lessons. Pathetic.
As for Terry, totally agree about the 'who keeps silent consents'. Pernicious nonsense. And his last few posts don't make sense, there's nothing even coherent enough to debunk.
The Brazilian military dictatorship was not a fascist government by the original definition, but people tend to throw these terms around loosely. I'm sure some people would call anyone who supports it a fascist, same as some people call Obama a socialist. It's hyperbole to link a person with something you dislike.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 04th, 2019 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Pernicious nonsense.” The only evidence of this is by yourself, as your claim is based on your own self-serving opinion. Whereas, my claim is based on the authority of 'Soma's Dictionary Of Latin Quotations Maxims And Phrases'
“The Brazilian military dictatorship was not a fascist government by the original definition,” Your own unqualified biased view.
Whereas qualified opinion of such a government or supporter of this is
fascism - authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, militarism;
Dictionary Version 2.2.2 (203.1) Copyright © 2005–2017 Apple Inc.
fascist “a person who advocates a particular viewpoint or practice in a manner perceived as intolerant or authoritarian.” OED v4.0.app
A fascist by any other name is still a fascist.
”I supported the military regime,” which is enough to define him as a fascist. Since you are accountable, and your accountability means the rejection of your claim that your not under 'The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation', Charlotte Jørgensen
“FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, ...the notion of intentionality has been challenged from various theoretical perspectives within rhetoric and argumentation.”
Nobody has to do anything other than show what he has stated, there's no escape or deniability.
FROM: The Economist:
Feb 05th, 2019 - 06:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Brazil’s crisis - Irredeemable?
https://www.economist.com/briefing/2016/01/02/irredeemable?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/irredeemable
@JB
Feb 05th, 2019 - 10:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0I forgot to say, did you see the other link I posted about treating violence literally as an epidemic?
https://mosaicscience.com/story/violence-crime-knife-chicago-glasgow-gang-epidemic-gun-health-prevention/
@Terryble T
Feb 05th, 2019 - 09:32 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“ 'JB supported the military regime', which is enough to define him as a fascist”....really ? ok, so the fact you support Lula, who supports Maduro, makes you a Bolivarian socialist. QED.
@DT
“Even in the USA, Republicans managed to cheat the system ‘n steal a nomination” ...presume you refer to Kavanaugh....if so, all I have to say is, the woman's accusation could not be proved, Kavanaugh's defence allegation could not be disproved, ‘n Congress voted for K...that’s not 'cheating'.
But ok, if it's a president's prerrogative to submit names, or appoint judges, that is part of the democratic institution. Other criteria has been proposed (to appoint judges), but never went anywhere.
Playing along with corruption depends on your own conscience - if you are involved...if you aren't, keep your nose out of it. The Lavajato was started because one person, who didn't like the idea of being bribed, then threatened, denounced it to the Federal Police 'n cooperated to catch the crook....after months of investigation, look what happened.
As for my Aussie friend, to be fair, he did manage to communicate with the girls....but that's life - as they say here “cada cabeça, uma sentença” or, “to each his own”.
The military here were not fascist, more authoritarian, in that they did not allow bs 'n saw most things in black 'n white, not much room for grey areas....but that's the military.
Today, here in Brazil, those on the left classify everyone, literally everyone, who's not a leftist, as a fascist....it's the trend. Poor Terry, he's full of shit, his posts are unintelligible, stupid 'n irrelevant.
Yr violent crime link, saw it now. I think the 'results' of violent crime can be considered a health problem...but if the crime itself is so considered what does that mean ? excusing violent crime because the perp is mentally ill ? looks a bit like inventing excuses to let criminals off the hook. If behaviour could be changed easily, the world would be perfect.
@JB
Feb 05th, 2019 - 10:15 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“presume you refer to Kavanaugh”
Nope, I was talking about Neil Gorsuch. The senate leader refused to even hold a vote on anyone Obama nominated; instead of trying to compromise on a moderate candidate they left the office vacant until they could appoint someone strongly right-wing. All part of their plan to overturn rights in America.
“Playing along with corruption depends on your own conscience - if you are involved...if you aren't, keep your nose out of it.”
If people around you weren't so willing to turn a blind eye, you'd be a lot less likely to play along with the corruption. Maybe Brazilians should be sticking their noses in more often.
“if the crime itself is so considered what does that mean ? excusing violent crime because the perp is mentally ill ?”
Not at all. Rather it's recognising that people are more likely to commit violent acts when they are surrounded by violence, and because of this the violence in one area can spread to another. The things they did to try and change behaviour were described in the article, and it wasn't easy, but then neither is any way of dealing with the problem. And in the long term changing behaviour is much better for society than paying to send people in prison, then having them come out and go straight back to crime.
Forgot to say before, my link about the PT was to a book, it worked for me, but you could try doing a google book search for “Democratic Brazil divided”. The bit I was looking at seems to be an essay titled “Good Government and Politics as Usual? The Schizophrenic Path of the Workers' Party”.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Feb 05th, 2019 - 10:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The only QED that is proved is that your assertion is untrue, since my only interest in Lula is purely legal.
Moreover, you are a proven liar to wit: JB “Why d'you repeat your silly claims ? it ain't gonna make them true…” The evidence from your own post refutes your latest lie ... as following three independent witness’s prove as in this deliberate lie. JB “The only reason for receptacles - in 'public' bathrooms - is to throw the bulkier paper hand-towels … If he thinks he's proved I'm a liar - about anything - let him TRY to prove it.”
http ://en. mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470703
“In common with most Latin American countries, the sewage system in Brazil can't cope with paper being flushed, so use the bin provided.” http: //www.wheredoiputthepaper.com.
“Where Do I Put my Toilet Paper? ..a trash bin. And, yes, that's where you put the paper after you used it.”
http: //thebrazilbusiness.com/article/going-to-the-toilet-in-brazil
“Living in Brazil: Electric showers, toilet litter and other oddities ..that nasty plastic basket with everyone´s used toilet paper in it. I hate being gross in my blog, but its a gross thing, believe me. For some unexplained reason, Brazilian piping and sewage is not compatible with toilet paper so people never flush the toilet paper down their toilets. Instead, they provide little baskets, sometimes with lids and sometimes without, beside the toilet for the toilet paper. If you refuse to use them, as I did at first, you end up blocking their entire piping system.”
https://brazilphenomenon.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/living-in-brazil-electric-showers-toilet-litter-and-other-oddities/
So thanks for giving me the opportunity to provide conclusive evidence of your unmitigated lying.
You readily supply much of the same content as o saco de merda.
So “Poor Terry” proved his claim, and you are the only one “full of shit”.
Oh great, now he's obsessing over loo roll again. Terry, just because you're a toilet cleaner doesn't mean you have to go on about it all the time. Why don't you get a hobby?
Feb 05th, 2019 - 11:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 06th, 2019 - 02:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Oh great, now..” Close but no cigar, “full of” was the trigger. I knew you wouldn't get it because its purpose was to reveal JB's lack of truth, like yours. Your previous assertion was based on the same defeated claims. I have clearly proved JB is a fascist and you are his simpering apologist, which is why you bailed at http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/30/dam-burst-in-brazil-police-arrests-five-engineers-responsible-for-environment-impact-licenses/comments#comment497762
So resurrecting the same defeated argument is completely unprincipled and dishonest. But, what can you expect from one who bears all the hallmarks of servile, subservient, fawning, obsequious, sycophantic, excessively deferential, toadying, ingratiating, unctuous, grovelling, cringing, toadyish, sycophantish, abject, craven, humble, Uriah Heepish, self-abasing; informal slimy, bootlicking, sucky, soapy, forelock-tugging, brown-nosing, apple-polishing, arse-licking, bum-sucking, kiss-ass, ass-kissing, suckholing.
Boring, already debunked nonsense. Resorts to insult because he's lost the argument.
Feb 06th, 2019 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0You're so dumb and unimaginative you can't even come up with your own insults. Siri is smarter and more entertaining than Terryble Terry.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 06th, 2019 - 10:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0“he's lost the argument..” JB like you certainly has. So he is proved conclusively to be a fascist, and an absolute liar on another issue. “already debunked” no proof, no truth. While you are revealed as his lying fawning apologist, nice work. While my proofs remain irrefutable.
You wouldn't know a proof if it jumped up and punched you in the face. You're so stupid you've been outwitted by single celled organisms, and so arrogant you make Trump look self-effacing. You have so little imagination you literally have to quote the dictionary when you try and insult someone. You're a walking, talking example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Feb 06th, 2019 - 11:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 06th, 2019 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You wouldn't know a proof” “He who asserts must prove” So you remain proof less and truth less, thus revealed as a liar. While all my assertions are supported by citations, and thus proven. “you quote the dictionary”, while you quote your imagination. Game, set, and match. Keep living up to your nickname.
OK but is or isn't Brazil’s crisis - Irredeemable REF: The Economist?
Feb 06th, 2019 - 01:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.economist.com/briefing/2016/01/02/irredeemable?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/irredeemable
@Dunning-Kruger effect
Feb 06th, 2019 - 03:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“while you quote your imagination”
Yes, that's what capable people do - like the creators of those witty put-downs you love to misuse. Mediocrities copy someone else's genius, and the real losers resort to quoting the dictionary.
@ :o))
2016? That's a tad out of date...
@DemonTree
Feb 06th, 2019 - 04:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: 2016? That's a tad out of date...
U mean, it's OVER already? THAT sounds just F.A.B.U.L.U.O.S!
https://www.todamateria.com.br/crise-economica-no-brasil/
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 06th, 2019 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“while you quote your imagination” versus my incontestable proofs. Your unqualified pyscho babble doesn't redeem your proven lying. ”You wouldn't know a proof if..“ So there is not one assertion you have made where you have provided one iota of proof. No proof, no truth.
”ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat (cum per rerum naturam factum negantis probation nulla sit)-the burden of proof lies upon him who affirms, not on him who denies, (since by the nature of things, he who denies a fact cannot produce any proof). The claimant is always bound to prove: the burden of proof lies on him. Upon the one alleging, not upon him denying, rests the duty of proving. Upon the plaintiff rests the proving or the burden of proof,”
Soma's Dictionary of Latin Quotations, Maxims and Phrases: A Compendium of ..
@DT
Feb 06th, 2019 - 06:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok, Gorsuch nominated by Trump in Jan 2017, after a Republican headed Senate refused to vote for BO’s nominee, Garland. And G was appointed, with even the support of 3 Democrat senators.
“they left the office vacant until they could appoint someone strongly right-wing”…and Garland was what ?
BO chose Garland for the SC because he knew he would obstruct Republican interests. The Democrats favored a staunchly liberal candidate, ‘n Garland, altho a moderate had been on Democratic SC shortlists as far back as 1997. BO wanted a liberal successor, a judge who could potentially swing the SC in a liberal direction, with potentially far-reaching political consequences. No one was “innocent”.
Until fairly recently, (mid 90s ?), the Brazilians, as a whole, were not particularly interested in politics, which gave politicians more freedom for their evil deeds. More recently the people have been sticking their nose in it, reason why the changes occurred.
Ok, I fully agree that the environment you live in can influence your choices, but not every ‘slum-dweller’ in Rio is a criminal…the great majority exercised their choices ‘n preferred to remain (relatively) honest.
Each case has to analyzed separately, you cannot just ‘presume’ that people have little say in their actions, and should be regarded as a ‘health’ problem. Then again, I’d say the success of such treatment, as reported in the article, has a lot to do with the type of crime.
Changing society’s view on crime, or the minds of potential criminals, again, comes down to better living conditions and ‘education’. No one holds a gun to yr head and orders you to rape a 5 yr old girl, so besides better education, crime has to be punished.
“The Schizophrenic Path of the Workers' Party” describes the PT well.
Terryble Terry's lost it again.. “He who asserts must prove” & “While all my assertions are supported by citations, and thus proven”, is bs...what do citations prove ? Terry's irrationality at best.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Feb 06th, 2019 - 07:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Terry's lost it again..” Those who simply opined cannot produce even one solitary fact support their assertion are revealed as liars. “what do citations prove...” they prove what I'm asserting is a proven fact, and since you cannot produce any facts you are a liar.
”ei incumbit probatio, qui dicit, non qui negat (cum per rerum naturam factum negantis probation nulla sit)-the burden of proof lies upon him who affirms, not on him who denies, (since by the nature of things, he who denies a fact cannot produce any proof). The claimant is always bound to prove: the burden of proof lies on him. Upon the one alleging, not upon him denying, rests the duty of proving. Upon the plaintiff rests the proving or the burden of proof,”
Soma's Dictionary of Latin Quotations, Maxims and Phrases: A Compendium of ..
@JB
Feb 06th, 2019 - 09:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “More recently the people have been sticking their nose in it, reason why the changes occurred”:
True!
The addendum is that they did so without bothering to learn - discover - the facts behind the cosmetic appearances; wrt the recent “Classic Example”:
- “He” did nothing during 30 years of his political career
- The Military Regime drove the country deeper in crisis
- You know the Election-Result!
@JB
Feb 06th, 2019 - 10:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“and Garland was what ?”
A moderate Democrat. Wouldn't it be better for America if they compromised and put moderates on the court, rather than trying to appoint the most liberal/reactionary candidates they can find? If they had agreed to hold the vote and voted against Garland - as was likely - maybe Obama could have found someone else who was acceptable to both. But they refused to even try.
“the environment you live in can influence your choices”
It sure does. If you had lived in England all your life, there's no chance you'd be arguing in favour of death squads. That's the effect of being surrounded by violence on *you*.
In the article it says: “One of the primary indicators that someone will carry out an act of violence is first being the victim of one.” When the gang members lose friends and relatives to rival gangs, or to the police, they know they're never gonna get justice. They want revenge, and the only way to get it is more violence.
In Glasgow one of the things they did was station people in hospitals, to approach people who come in after a violent incident and persuade them to stop plotting revenge and instead offer them help to turn their lives around - drug or alcohol treatment, job opportunities or therapy.
As for Terry, he tries to use the language of logic and reasoning, but he doesn't understand a word of it. I know this stuff, including the fallacies he loves to misapply (plus a lot more), and it's painfully obvious he's just following a formula, without grasping the underlying concepts. And his extreme arrogance and basic dishonesty prevents him ever improving.
On some level he must know he's dumb, because every time he has a chance to demonstrate his intelligence more objectively, he refuses.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 06th, 2019 - 11:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As for Terry, he tries to ... ” and succeeds in proving what I claim. While you two clowns flounder around proving nothing, except your complete and utter dishonesty. As per usual from you, no proof, no truth.
Poor Terry.
Feb 07th, 2019 - 12:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 07th, 2019 - 12:29 am - Link - Report abuse 0“Poor Terry” A none sequeter.
Lol, it's 'non sequitur'. Poor Terry, will you ever get anything right?
Feb 07th, 2019 - 09:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 07th, 2019 - 09:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0Mea culpa, regardless it's the substance not the form. So it still does not follow in your scenario.
Hold-On Folks!
Feb 07th, 2019 - 09:51 am - Link - Report abuse 0The situation is much simpler when monochromatic:
https://i2.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Cores-do-Governo-Bolsonaro.jpg?resize=768%2C640&ssl=1
@ :o))
Feb 07th, 2019 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Lol.
@Terry
No, the spelling doesn't matter. But it's a feeling, which like an opinion can not be declared true or false.
Terrybly ignorant Terry,
Feb 07th, 2019 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Those who simply opined cannot produce even one solitary fact support their assertion are revealed as liars”.
I don't need to produce anything...you already produce all the proof we need...that you are a liar.
“what do citations prove...” they prove what I'm asserting is a proven fact, and since you cannot produce any facts you are a liar”
Terry, “r-e-a-d m-y l-i-p-s” : Citations prove nothing. They are just a record of what someone said...which, to normal people, are usually known as 'opinions'. A 'fact' for ex., is that you are a liar with an enormous inferiority complex.
And for someone who tries to pass himself off as a law scholar, your latin is pretty shitty.. ...“none sequeter” ?
DT
“Garland, a moderate democrat”....that would most likely favor BO's policies...I agree that 'moderate-middle' would be best, but no Prez is a saint, not even BO.
“the environment you live in can influence your choices”...glad we agree, it's what I've said all along...and I was brought up in Brazil, and learned long ago, that idealism is a somewhat abstract concept.
“When the gang members lose friends and relatives to rival gangs, or to the police, they know they're never gonna get justice. They want revenge”
Right. But go back to the beginning...why does a gang have to be formed ? not to get revenge, but to commit crimes, to inflict damage on enemies, and innocent alike, in order to achieve their illicit objectives. Not at all a 'chicken & egg' issue.
Glasgow may have had serious problems, but nothing like Rio...so their approach had a certain degree of success. But they are welcome to try it out here.
Terry is like an addict....he'll never admit he's addicted. And how is he going to demonstrate something he never had, i.e., intelligence ? I mean, the fact he believes his “opinions” represent the gospel truth, is proof he doesn't know when he's lying. He denies the obvious 'n tries - but fails - to convince people his lies are the truth.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 07th, 2019 - 08:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But it's a feeling,” rubbish its a thought, and its still a non sequitur.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
“you already produce all the proof we need...that you are a liar.” I am not blighted with your affliction, otherwise you'd be able to show where. No proof, no truth.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
“They are just a record of what someone said.” Like the following link showing you being a liar about bathroom etiquette in Brazil, thanks you've just proved the confirmation of my proof again.
http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/30/dam-burst-in-brazil-police-arrests-five-engineers-responsible-for-environment-impact-licenses/comments#comment497854
“I mean, the fact he believes” You got that wrong as I believe in the gospel fact which exposures your lying again, and again, and again.
@JB
Feb 07th, 2019 - 09:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Citations at least prove that someone said something, that's not nothing. Citations, fallacies, and the sources Terry quotes aren't useless or wrong in themselves, it's just that Terry misuses them.
For example, that thing he keeps screaming about: 'the relevance of intention in argument evaluation'. A logical argument stands or falls on its own merits; strictly speaking the person who made it is irrelevant, as is whether they believe what they are saying or not. But Terry is misapplying the quote: he was not evaluating an argument at all, but making a statement about the arguer (ie you). When judging a person's actions of course intention is important.
As for calling my comment a non sequitur, that's absurd. Terry treats every statement as if it was said under oath in a courtroom; he doesn't seem able to understand that different ways of interacting are appropriate in different situations - from a friendly discussion to a formal debate to cross-examination in a court - and that the rules differ in each. He mixes up sources and tries to apply them to a situation they were never intended for. Evidently he has some kind of problem, but it's impossible to diagnose over the internet. And I too assume (on the basis of the evidence) that he is incapable of demonstrating any intelligence, but surely he would want to do so if he believed he could. So deep down he must realise the truth.
“no Prez is a saint, not even BO”
Indeed. BO wasn't a saint, but he was okay and he could have done more for the country if the Republicans had agreed to work with him sometimes. There are many areas where both parties agree, so the extreme partisanship is somewhat puzzling.
Re violence, you were brought up in Brazil but not in the ghetto. Weren't you at least somewhat sheltered as a child? Seems odd to think you were never idealistic. When did you decide to, as Think put it, “gladly accept the violent killing of a grown human being for the value of a Samsung Galaxy J3 smartphone”?
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 07th, 2019 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“the relevance of intention in argument evaluation ... Terry is misapplying the quote” In your unqualified and very, very biased opinion. I'm simply applying what the expert originator says
“The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation Charlotte Jørgensen
Over the last decades, THE NOTION OF INTENTIONALITY HAS BEEN CHALLENGED from various theoretical perspectives within rhetoric and argumentation.”(the action or process of reasoning systematically in support of an idea, action, or theory: lines of argumentation used to support his thesis.)
“The major consequence of the responsibility condition is that the speaker, because he is answerable for what he has said, may be deemed to act as if he were sincere – whether he actually is sincere or not. FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS.”
https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blog.umd.edu/dist/6/47/files/2012/08/Jorgensen-Intent1.pdf
@JB
Feb 07th, 2019 - 11:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's like watching someone try to build Ikea furniture and ending up with an unidentifiable monstrosity - bits of wood and nails sticking out at all angles. He has all the parts, but he lacks the understanding to put them together.
But it's handy, because I wanted to say more. Yes, the gangs started for a reason; in Glasgow I think some of it was spillover from the Troubles in NI, some the usual drugs and crime in a poor area. But there was still a feedback loop where violence begat more violence, and when they managed to interrupt it the violence fell - murders dropped by half after the project. I didn't say before, but they didn't only use a 'helping' approach. They also toughened the laws on carrying knives, for example. Rio is much worse, but that doesn't mean the same approach wouldn't work.
@Terry
You're still missing the point that your quote says nothing at all about lying. You don't understand it, but it's not relevant to this situation.
Also, there is no point shouting. The volume of your voice does not increase the validity of your argument.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 08th, 2019 - 12:07 am - Link - Report abuse 0“but he lacks the understanding to put them together.” You wish, I had sufficient understanding to show you that your invention that JB could lie his head off with impunity was false. As his 'intent' did not have to be refuted, as it was totally irrelevant.
“You're still missing the point that your quote says nothing at all about lying” It's immaterial I don't have to say anything, the author covers that issue to wit:
He is answerable for what he has said, may be deemed to act as if he were sincere – whether he actually is sincere or not. FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS.”
“there is no point shouting” I am just emphasising that which directly refutes what you are claiming, as there no underline or bold feature.
I didn't say JB could lie with impunity, you idiot; I said he wasn't lying at all. The only bit you should have highlighted is 'FOR OUR PURPOSES', because the purpose of the author was NOT deciding whether someone was lying or not. As I already explained to you several times, but you are too thick to grasp.
Feb 08th, 2019 - 12:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 08th, 2019 - 01:04 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I didn't say JB could lie with impunity, ... I said he wasn't lying at all”
Then you are both liars as this clearly shows his propensity for constant and continued lying. http://en.mercopress.com/2019/01/30/dam-burst-in-brazil-police-arrests-five-engineers-responsible-for-environment-impact-licenses/comments#comment497854
“DT ”JB has never denied that he supported the military government, BUT he doesn't believe that makes him a fascist. So he wasn't lying. Simple.“
”He is answerable for what he has said, may be deemed to act as if he were sincere – whether he actually is sincere or not. FOR OUR PURPOSES, IT IS WHAT THE SPEAKER CAN BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THAT COUNTS, NOT WHAT HE PRIVATELY THINKS.”
DT “people do not generally agree on which governments are fascist. Your unsupported opinion means nothing.” But is supported so it means everything.
fascism - authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, militarism;
Dictionary Version 2.2.2 (203.1) Copyright © 2005–2017 Apple Inc.
fascist “a person who advocates a particular viewpoint or practice in a manner perceived as intolerant or authoritarian.” OED v4.0.app
A fascist by any other name is still a fascist.
Thanx for the VALUABLE info:
Feb 08th, 2019 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/DODIA//cpaiva.jpg
Terry's method of 'arguing' is very similar to how an AI might be programmed to do it. First he makes a claim - sometimes outrageously wrong, sometimes fairly plausible - then he googles to find a source that says something vaguely similar. If he finds one, he copies and pastes the relevant section, taking it completely out of context, and insists it proves what he says. Then when people try to explain why he's wrong, he repeats it, along with similarly-plagiarised insults until they get bored and stop talking to him.
Feb 08th, 2019 - 01:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Given his complete lack of understanding of logic, argument, and even lack of common sense, presumably this 'pattern matching' method is the only one he can use. Unsurprisingly it is ineffective; if he ever gets anything right it is only due to chance.
Terry, you will never get anywhere unless you learn the basics and UNDERSTAND them rather than copy-pasting. A computer can quote the dictionary definition of a word, but it doesn't understand what it means. You are like the computer, quoting things you don't understand and creating an argument that makes no sense. That's why the people who DO understand all think you're an idiot. You're not even at square one, because most adults intuitively understand that the rules of a courtroom are different to those used in a formal debate, that those applying to an academic paper are different again, and a casual conversation is not the same as even an informal debate. Trying to apply rules from one area to another is as absurd as going to a McDonald's and demanding a waiter in a dinner jacket come and pour you wine.
The very first thing you need to learn is that context matters. Taking words out of context can completely alter their meaning, and legal rules only apply in a courtroom. The rules can even change depending on if it's a civil or criminal case.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 08th, 2019 - 03:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Terry's method ...” Is finding the actual facts of the matter. Which in every instance puts your sophistic opining attempts in their true light.
“the dictionary definition of a word,” shows your claim “people do not generally agree on which governments are fascist“ as total BS.
”all think you're an idiot.“ Only you as you don't like being revealed as the liar you really are.
In this present exchange I haven't relied on anything from legal logic. I have relied exclusively on argumentation - the action or process of reasoning systematically in support of an idea, action, or theory: lines of argumentation used to support his thesis; and I've wiped the floor with you.
”The best way to win an argument is to begin by being right.” Jill Ruckeshaus
You haven't relied on any argumentation, because you have done no reasoning, systematic or otherwise. You don't know the first thing about how to reason, and that's why your 'conclusions' are nonsense.
Feb 08th, 2019 - 03:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 08th, 2019 - 04:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You don't know the first thing about how to reason” ah more of your simplistic unsupported opining. No proof, no truth.
“You haven't relied on any argumentation” Other than “The Relevance of Intention in Argument Evaluation Charlotte Jørgensen
Over the last decades, THE NOTION OF INTENTIONALITY HAS BEEN CHALLENGED.
Exactly, you haven't done any 'reasoning systematically in support of an idea, action, or theory'. All you have done is quote someone else's reasoning about something different. That's not an argument.
Feb 08th, 2019 - 04:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 08th, 2019 - 04:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“is quote someone else's reasoning about something different. That's not an argument.” What I have done is totally vanquish your assertion of necessity
to prove that JB is untruthful, by providing support from an expert that it is not. So I can directly contradict you since my assertion is proved, whereas yours is not. So you've lost, that is how things are done in the real world.
Annnd it's back to word salad again. One may as well argue with a pig.
Feb 08th, 2019 - 05:06 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 08th, 2019 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Annnd ... ”its back to you as loser trying to convince yourself that haven't lost. Although, it's obvious to any impartial observer that your beaten fair and square.
@DT
Feb 08th, 2019 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Citations may not be 'nothing', but they 'prove' nothing. Like Terry.
“Indeed. BO wasn't a saint, but he was ok, he could've done more for the country if the Republicans had agreed to work with him sometimes”.
You liked BO....I did too - in the beginning....but I grew to dislike him...his Obamacare was a hoax, from beginning to end..“you can keep your Doctor”, “your premiums will drop”.....well, something went wrong. But my opinion did not change overnight, it took time, after a series of issues, like passing Decree Laws while Congress was in recess, and his arrogance....the fact Dems & Republicans don't get on is because each want to sabotage the other and neither have the country's interests at heart. But let's agree to disagree on BO.
“Re violence, you were brought up in Brazil but not in the ghetto. Weren't you at least somewhat sheltered as a child? Seems odd to think you were never idealistic”.
Right, I was not brought up in the ghetto, 'n when I was really young, crime was insignificant. Don't get me wrong - as a teenager, I had some totally impracticable ideas abt fixing things. You get older, realize the human race is what it is, 'n you become more of a realist. If idealism worked on government scale, we'd be living in a utopia.
“When did you decide to, as Think put it, “gladly accept the violent killing of a grown human for a Samsung G smartphone”?” Glad you said “as Think put it”. He has no f'g idea what he was talking abt, never having experienced real sh*t, close up. I never “glady accepted” such a thing, as if I were indifferent to someone getting killed over a stupid phone....But I can agree with capital punishment for the perpetrator.
“Rio is much worse, but that doesn't mean the same approach wouldn't work”...sorry, I doubt it....based on the fact tt the criminals in Rio are usually a bunch of semi-illiterates, who have nothing to lose...not much room for negotiating, or convincing them their lot will improve if they abandon crime.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Feb 08th, 2019 - 07:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Citations ... but they 'prove' nothing.” Oh yes they do liar “... citations of evidence are not only acceptable reasoning, but are necessary to avoid plagiarism.”
https ://yandoo.wordpress.com/2013/06/23/argument-from-authority/
”Using Evidence: Citing Sources Properly
Not citing sources properly could imply that the ideas, information, and phrasing you are using are your own,“
https ://academicguides.waldenu.edu/writingcenter/evidence/citations
”A full citation fully identifies a reliable source and, where applicable, the place in that source (such as a page number) where the information in question can be found. For example: Rawls, John. A Theory of Justice. Harvard University Press, 1971, p. 1. This type of citation is usually given as a footnote, and is the most commonly used citation method in Wikipedia articles.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources
@JB
Feb 08th, 2019 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Obama was limited by what he could get through Congress, and what was feasible to do in the US. He did manage to expand healthcare to millions who hadn't had it, and some parts were very popular. Major problem was that his reform did not address the root causes of why American healthcare costs so much. But fixing that will need more radical reforms, which no politician has an appetite for. Trump's plan to make pricing more transparent ought to help a little, but I don't think it's been passed yet.
“as a teenager, I had some totally impracticable ideas abt fixing things”
We have two new guys at work, and they both have ridiculous ideas. One supports Brexit, and thinks we'd be better off being ruled by a dictator, or with no government at all. I say if he thinks dictators are so great, he should move to a country that's ruled by one, like China.
The other one isn't quite as bad, but he refuses to vote in elections. What's the point of complaining about the government, and then not doing even the simplest thing to change it?
I guess my ideas have changed a lot since I was a teenager, too. I probably would have supported Corbyn then. But I don't think I've changed my mind about what to aim for, only about what methods are practical and what can be achieved.
Re Think, you don't believe Argentina has 'real shit'? He was talking about the police shooting a criminal who stole a smartphone, but didn't the death squads kill kids who shoplifted repeatedly? And that didn't bother you.
The Glasgow criminals also felt they had nothing to lose, they'd never be able to get a real job etc. Perhaps a bigger difference is that they had more to gain if they could join society, whereas in Rio even if they got a job they'd likely still be poor with no prospect of improvement.
As for the citations, even you cited a dictionary to show revindicating was a real word. They can be useful, just not the magical key to winning an argument that Terry imagines they are.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
Feb 08th, 2019 - 10:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“just not the magical key to winning an argument” more than enough to beat hands down your unsupported opinion which is not citable at all.
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