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Guaidó calls for mass protests on Monday morning when he returns to Venezuela

Monday, March 4th 2019 - 07:55 UTC
Full article 69 comments

Venezuela’s opposition leader called on Sunday for mass protests across the country on Monday as he announced his return to the country after a week touring Latin American allies.“I’m announcing my return to the country. I am calling on the Venezuelan people to mobilize all over the country tomorrow at 11:00 am (1500 GMT),” Guaido said on Twitter. Read full article

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  • Chicureo

    Meanwhile, the hard left continues to support Maduro. In an attempt to falsify history, actor Danny Glover has said that Maduro will have one million houses built by the end of this year and that poverty in Venezuela is down.

    Does he think that we are idiots?

    Mar 04th, 2019 - 12:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    TWIMC....

    Deseando y apostando a que los milicos venezolanos hayan leido y entendido al menos una de las tres raíces del Libro Azul de H. C. F.

    Mar 04th, 2019 - 05:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    Maduro's rhetoric and Russia's accusing Washington of interventionism are a joke.....has Russia already forgotten about Ukraine/Crimea ?

    As to Danny Glover, he is just one more of Hollywood's fading, 'Democrat' lefties.....it's his way of trying to stay in evidence...

    Contn of post under “Bolsonaro learning the hard way...”
    Just a quick note on Gollum's verbal diarrhea (referring to his fixation on toilets, electric showers etc..), we can only conclude that when Gollum used to live here, his ‘posh’ neighborhood did not have a decent sewer system, and having spent most of his time in it (scavenging for food), I can imagine that every time a toilet was flushed, Gollum would find himself desperately swimming against the turd, oops, I mean the tide.

    His lack of knowledge on Chile can be explained by the fact he’s never been here….he loves to talk big, without – as they say here – “conhecimento de causa”.

    Getting onto a far nicer subject, checked out your Tabalí …at R$ 33 / bottle, cheap as hell - but damned good ! (here, between R$ 80-90). Also saw “Toro de Piedra”….very good cost/benefit .
    Well, let’s see….my turn - couple of days ago bought a few bottles of Aresti’s 'Trisquel Gran Reserva Gewurtz' (Curico) ‘n 'Trisquel Gran Reserva Sauv Blanc' (Leyda Valley); had one of the Sauv Blancs last night…it was ‘excellent’ (rated 91 ‘n 92 points respectively) and as good as any top Sauvignon Blanc from NZ.

    Mar 04th, 2019 - 06:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    TWIMC...

    For the benefit of those willing to inform themselves...

    I present Swiss/Yank/Cuban UN Human Rights Rapporteur Dr. Prof. Alfred-Maurice de Zayas...:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk

    Mar 04th, 2019 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ii5MlQgGXyk

    (Alfred Zayas : An Ocean of Lies on Venezuela: Abby Martin & UN Rapporteur Expose Coup)

    Really enlightening....hardly.

    Mar 04th, 2019 - 09:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Just a quick note on toilets” Thanks for the opportunity to present you as the liar you really are.
    JB ”the only reason for receptacles - in 'public' bathrooms - is to throw the bulkier paper hand-towels”
    “Living in Brazil: Electric showers, toilet litter and other oddities ..that nasty plastic basket with everyone´s used toilet paper in it. I hate being gross in my blog, but its a gross thing, believe me. For some unexplained reason, Brazilian piping and sewage is not compatible with toilet paper so people never flush the toilet paper down their toilets. Instead, they provide little baskets, sometimes with lids and sometimes without, beside the toilet for the toilet paper. If you refuse to use them, as I did at first, you end up blocking their entire piping system.”
    https://brazilphenomenon.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/living-in-brazil-electric-showers-toilet-litter-and-other-oddities/

    Mar 05th, 2019 - 01:26 pm - Link - Report abuse -1
  • Jack Bauer

    That's right you turd, keep on wallowing in the toilets....ah just to let you know, I don't have a “receptacle” beside mine.....wonder why ? => NO NEED !!!

    There, according to 'Terence Hill' standards, I've just proved you are an unmitigated, compulisive LIAR.......“chortle, chortle”.....oops what sound is that ? => Gollum laughing.

    Mar 05th, 2019 - 06:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    To All Here

    We've all discussed what's really happening in Venezuela, of which I extensively shared my thoughts regarding what's happening in what was once a wonderful country that has been run into the ground by poor management. There is definitely a propaganda war going on BOTH sides, but the terrible mismanagement by whom was once a bus driver has taken the country into near destruction. It certainly was probably not very intelligent to nationalize some major mega-multinational giant petroleum companies, only in the end to give them away to Russian and Chinese Petroleum concerns. In the end, the true losers are the people and that's become impossible to cover up.

    It's sort of like comparing why Russian propaganda is probably going to lose against the North American one, or asking why did India recently send their old MiG-21s to take on Pakistan's F-16s. It doesn't really matter in the end who is rightfully correct, but instead who has the overwhelming advantage.

    Anyway, as I've earlier suggested, watch the movie “Wag the Dog” for clarification.


    Jack

    We're planning on having beef carpaccio this evening and I'm opening up my last bottle of Viña Carmen Margaux 1987. It was a cheap buy at less than $2 a bottle by the case when I purchased it. It was never spectacular, but has aged beautifully over the years. (Carmen relinquished the name due to a lawsuit years ago...)

    Here's another jewel of an offer available here.

    TORO DE PIEDRA CABERNET SAUVIGNON, GRAN RESERVA, REQUINGUA
    https://ewine.cl/vinos-en-oferta/pack-12-botellas-toro-de-piedra-cabernet-sauvignon-gran-reserva-requingua-86.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_L2I4d7r4AIVgwmRCh30FgmtEAQYASABEgIaj_D_BwE

    Mar 05th, 2019 - 08:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    It's all too reminiscent of the Iraq war when the UN weapons inspector was asking them to give him more time, and the US decided to invade anyway. I don't support Maduro at all, but I suspect if the opposition do end up in power they will change their tune even faster than Lenin Moreno.

    @All
    I had the dulce de leche I brought back from Argentina on my pancakes today. It's carnival in Brazil right now, isn't it? What happens before Lent in Argentina and Chile?

    Mar 05th, 2019 - 08:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “That's right ..” I get to prove conclusively that you're a liar yet again, dipshit.
    JB ”the only reason for receptacles - in 'public' bathrooms - is to throw the bulkier paper hand-towels”
    “So people never flush the toilet paper down their toilets. Instead, they provide little baskets, sometimes with lids and sometimes without, beside the toilet for the toilet paper”
    Living in Brazil: Electric showers, toilet litter ..“
    http://en.mercopress.com/2019/03/04/guaido-calls-for-mass-protests-on-monday-morning-when-he-returns-to-venezuela/comments#comment498659
    ”or the wretched conceit of a liar, in supposing himself clever enough to invent stories so ingenious that they shall, for any time, impose on people for the truth, and the still grosser folly in imagining, as he must do, that the world will, without investigation and analysis, take for granted anything he chooses to assert that world more shrewd, more cunning, and as prying as himself what a conceited ass must the liar be! How superior over others in cunning must he not believe himself! What fools must he not suppose the rest of mankind!”
    Charles William Day, The Maxims, Experiences, and Observations of Agogos

    Mar 05th, 2019 - 11:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    It looks like this coming weekend will be a major confrontation in Caracas as part of the military has become disaffected and are remaining neutral. It seems to be a slow motion revolution.

    None of us on this thread needs to use a famous quote from a noted someone to express our mutual disgust and distain of GOLLUM who constantly bizarrely refers to toilet paper in waste baskets over and over again...

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 12:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Chicureo the flamer
    The issue that your fellow reactionary suffers from is exactly the same as you all do, a complete lack of veracity.
    You just take care of fostering that close relationship with your mother, instead of attempting to project those unwanted feelings onto others.
    “Psychological projection is a defence mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.”
    https://www.everydayhealth.com/emotional.../psychological-projection-dealing-with-un...

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 01:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @Chicureo
    Sounds like you sure know how to treat yourself well......just one question, if “Carmen relinquished the name due to a lawsuit years ago...”, who uses the name nowadays ?

    Yep, the Toro de Piedra is good....especially at R$ 39 / bottle......used to buy it here, but haven't seen it for sometime...will do a search online.

    Gollum has no imagination, no creativity....with him, it's all about toilets, citations, incessantly repeating the same crap over 'n over again, as he tries to convince himself.

    Have you noticed that all his posts are no more than a slurry of accusations, name calling, lewd insinuations, and trying to psycho-analyze other posters ?...to make himself believe he is important, he has to belittle others......must be the result of a failed life, but of late he seems to have found a pastime he enjoys....sucking. I'm so glad he makes Lula happy.

    @DT
    Presume the 'dulce de leche' you bought was at the duty free on the way out and is 'Havanna' brand (?).......during vacations in BA, my cousin and I would each buy a 1 kg pot of 'dulce de leche' (in a cylindrical cardboard carton), go and sit in the park beside the train station, and we'd only get up once it was finished.....can't see myself doing that (eating 1 kg) today...

    The 'pre-carnival' madness always starts on the weekend before the official Carnival dates (this year, 01-06 March) and will have a last fling this coming weekend....so it's a two-week event. Besides the organized parades in the “Sambódramo” (where the Samba schools compete against each other, to see who rises and who falls), there are 100s of carnival 'blocks”, (ranging from 100 to 5,000 people) which need prior authorization from the mayor's office (to occupy the streets), which then seals off a few streets in some neighbourhoods, for everyone to dance and get drunk....luckily I live about 1 km from the closest carnival 'blocks', so I only hear the drum beating 'n singing when the wind blows in the wrong direction.

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 03:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “with him, it's all about” Proving conclusively that you are shown in your true colours, as an unmitigated liar, which I have done.
    Any thing I post that has the of support of a citation has been supplied, and as yet no one has been able to prove the contrary. Whereas, you are revealed as a liar relying solely on your dishonestly brought opinions.

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 03:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...
    “Dulce de Leche” huhhhhh...?
    You Engrish seem to know nothin' bout it...
    At least..., that's the impression one gets from min. 05:00...:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G2o-17CzDB8&t=435s

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    In Chile we use the word manjar for dulce de leche, but in Columbia the name for a fabulous delicious caramel desert is Sophia Vergara...

    Despite his tilted ideology, Señor THINK has exceptional taste in caramel deserts...

    Jack

    Viña Carmen is still going strong but they had to give up the “Margaux” label as it has been rightfully owned by Château Margaux for centuries and the French objected... ...sort of like the Duchy of Grand Fenwick threatening to go to war against Chile, but with teeth. (Hopefully you know about “The Mouse That Roared”)

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 05:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    I got the dulce de leche at a Carrefour on my last evening in BA. It's pretty similar to the caramel in millionaire's shortbread or banoffee pie, for which the usual recipe is to boil an unopened can of condensed milk for 2 or 3 hours. (Sounds like a good way to blow up your kitchen.) But Gordon Ramsey is an ass, so what do you expect?

    I like dulce de leche, but I'm pretty sure I'd hurl if I tried to eat a kilogram of the stuff. You must have had a strong stomach as a child, Jack.

    I guess pancake day isn't a thing anywhere in South America? But the carnival looks really cool, I'd love to see it at some point. Also, it's lucky for my company that it's on this week, because last weekend some idiot who's probably going to get fired screwed up the server our Brazilian clients are on, and didn't take a backup first. Tomorrow they all come back from holiday and we find out if everything's fixed or not...

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 05:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    That festival is non-existent on my side of the Andes because we're basically boring regarding entertainment. Brazilians and Argentinians are like your friends that throw fabulous parties and never pay off the ever growing credit card debt they accrue. Chileans look up to how Argentine and Brazilians enjoy life, but Brazilians laugh how Argentines are always complaining, even when they're doing well. Brazilians are a far happier society and Argentines are... ...as we say “especial”...

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 06:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Chicureo
    That's a shame. Brazilians do seem to be the best at partying. What do you do in Chile to have fun?

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    Vina Carmen...ok, I get it, thanks. yep, similar to the “The Mouse that Roared”....saw it decades ago....Peter Sellers was one of the funnist comedians of his time....so wasTerry Thomas. And Sophia Vergara....if she likes dulce de leche, then it's two things I love about her...

    @DT
    I must admit, I did have a sweet tooth....still do....today even, if I start on a 300 gr pot of ddl, chances are that I'll suddenly find myself scraping the bottom.. .

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 08:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    “What do you do in Chile to have fun?” Basically make fun of the Argentine national football team lose against anyone. It's our national tradition to be envious of them, except for their governance of course.

    Did you by chance see “The Mouse That Roared”?

    _________________________________

    Jack

    A classmate of mine wrote a thesis about how small nations can win against larger aggressors using PSYOPS that was absolutely brilliant. The movie and the book are great fun!

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 08:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    I have a sweet tooth too. Wish I didn't, sugary things are so unhealthy and I seem to have reached the age where you can't eat whatever you like any more.

    @Chicureo
    No point having a national rivalry unless you can laugh at them sometimes. That reminds me, I noticed the other day that the Chile and Argentina stamps in my passport are in the flag colours. Very cute.

    I think I caught the second half of the film on TV once, but don't remember much. I did see Peter Sellers in Dr Strangelove, though.

    Did your classmate have any examples in his thesis, or was it all theoretical?

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 09:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    Yes I remember many examples of his thesis, beginning with the story of the famous answer to a rival nation threatening to invade Laconia. The adversaries warned that if they went to war, they would destroy the country. If they destroyed the country they would be the victor and Laconia would no longer exist. Apparently the Lanconian terse answer was one word: “IF”. ...They never were invaded...

    The study first presented decisive wars and secondly expounded the development of PSYOPS to win the wars.

    A good article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare

    He cited several instances of small forces defeating overwhelming odds and eventually winning the war itself.

    Battle of Agincourt where roughly 6,000 English soldiers and longbow archers against about 30,000 French armored soldiers. France lost terribly due to tactics.

    He covered the Finnish Soviet war, thought the Six-Day War in 1967 between the Arab–Israelis and ending with the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971, and finally finishing with the the Battle of Longewala that pitted more than 2,000 Pakistani soldiers backed by 45 tanks against 120 Indian soldiers with just one Jeep mounted M40 anti-tank recoil-less rifle. Again, with incredible leadership and tactics, India won.

    In all cases the adversaries were misted false information that was the vital key to victory.

    Mar 06th, 2019 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Chicureo
    I know about the battle of Agincourt and Finnish Soviet war, but didn't know psyops was particularly involved. Don't know much about the Indo-Pakistami war though. I can see how good tactics helped, plus mistakes made by the losing side (wasn't it Napoleon who said the side who made the least mistakes would win?), but what was the psyops?

    This page has some funny stories. I especially like the GIs trying to collect the complete set of German nude leaflets:

    http://www.psywarrior.com/PSYOPMistakes.html

    Mar 07th, 2019 - 02:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    @DT
    “....and I seem to have reached the age where you can't eat whatever you like any more”....at the tender age of ? ...+/- 35 ? I you don't already, you can always exercise regularly...to burn off the calories. It works.

    @Chicureo
    True to Spartan traditions, a laconic “ if ”...

    Mar 07th, 2019 - 07:44 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Jack

    Exactly! - IF -
    Sparta was one bad ass adversary.

    DemonTree

    Thanks for the link. Good reading and why is it that the Germans and Americans seem to be the worst offenders of screwing up campaigns...

    During the Falklands War, Argentine nationalists accused us of printing false news about how the British were winning the war. They thought it was another Chilean propaganda campaign and beloved it right up to the final surrender...

    As everyone knows, Chile secretly aided the UK during the war, but there were a lot of FUBAR on our part. The Argentines had good reason to hate us afterwards, but we were just returning what they had committed against us in multiples.

    To touch upon the earlier subject, King Henry V was a really smart SOB who used PSYOPS on his soldiers, his noblemen, as well as the entire French populace. Henry lured the French noblemen into a death trap with false promised rich rewards and horrible intel from their mentally unstable kingdom which resulted in the enormous bloody loss of nobility.

    Napoleon was also a crafty bastard, bribing adversaries to fight between themselves and there are several written accounts of spies he turned to be “double agents”as well as one notable “triple agent” which proves you can never-never-never trust the French.

    And then, perhaps the meanest SOBs in PSYOPS would be the Israelis...

    In the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 Battle of Longewala, some very brilliant Indian officers transmitted false battle directions in perfectly spoken Punjabi and Urdu to the Pakistani troops over the military command frequency that even fooled the commanders.

    Despite having only 120 soldiers with just one Jeep mounted M40 anti-tank recoil-less rifle, they nearly destroyed the Pakistanis who had terrible conflicting leadership arguing during the battle over conflicting orders and planted false intel. (By the way, the three top Indian officers leading the battle were graduates of the Sandhurst Royal Military Academy.)

    Mar 07th, 2019 - 08:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Sadly, yes. I used to be able to eat twice as much as other people without getting fat, and without doing much exercise either. I even almost had a six-pack, despite never seeing the inside of a gym.

    I don't like sports, but I started swimming regularly last year, and I do try to get out for a walk during my lunch break. TBH it's probably driving to work and the free chocolate at my new job that's the real problem.

    @Chicureo
    “Argentine nationalists accused us of printing false news about how the British were winning the war”

    Lol, I think we know who was putting out the fake news. And after they learned the truth, there were riots in BA.

    Reading about the war, you can see there were plenty of mistakes on all sides, but probably the biggest one for the Junta was starting it in the first place. They didn't think Britain would fight, and they were very wrong.

    As for Agincourt, England won the battle but lost the war in the end. And probably a good thing for us. It doesn't benefit ordinary people if their king gets another throne in France. Rather the reverse; since France was bigger, the Kings would have moved there and England would be ruled from another country.

    Napoleon certainly was a crafty bastard. Only took five coalitions, the Peninsular War, and an ill advised invasion of Russia to defeat him.

    Re double agents, Wikipedia says that every single German agent sent to Britain during WWII either gave themselves up or were captured, and many of them supplied false intelligence to the Nazis. Kind of remarkable.

    “some very brilliant Indian officers transmitted false battle directions in perfectly spoken Punjabi and Urdu to the Pakistani troops over the military command frequency that even fooled the commanders.”

    Didn't they have any kind of security on their communications?! Those aren't exactly obscure languages.

    Mar 07th, 2019 - 09:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    Wasn't it fundamental for the success of D-day to make Hitler believe the invasion would be somewhere else ? hasn't subterfuge and fooling the enemy always been used to gain an advantage in war ?

    DT
    you could always ride a bike to work 'n back....just a suggestion !!!

    Mar 07th, 2019 - 10:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    It's 14 miles each way along a busy dual carriageway. I'd be squished by a lorry the first day. We're trying to move and if we can find a house close enough then I'd cycle, but it's really hard to find any that meet our requirements.

    I did used to cycle to work years ago, it was fun in summer but pretty unpleasant in the pitch dark and cold in winter, but I didn't have a driving licence back then. It's been a very long time since I've lived close enough for it to be feasible.

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 12:46 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Jack & DemonTree

    Yes, the Invasion of Normandy was incredible.

    The Indians had excellent intel and brilliantly seized upon the Pakistani weak points of terrible leadership, poorly trained soldiers and an highly prejudicial elitist inept officer corps leading 6,000 soldiers in 45 Chinese T-59 and US Sherman tanks. The radios of the tank manufactures was not compatible and therefore depended on jeep mounted command control radios to coordinate the two separate tank groups and soldier battalions. There was no encryption technology used, but code words and phrases were to be used. (Indian intelligence fortunately had earlier stolen them.) Punjabi and Urdu language nuances are just as diverse as English and the Indians played a script using appropriate accents and jargon consistent to the character they played, to completely befuddle, enrage, misdirect and at time to fight upon themselves.

    “Official” sightings and “estimates” of Indian troops were highly inflated with reports of heavily armed commando groups camouflaged waiting for an ambush. Even supply line communications were contaminated resulting in chaos. Meanwhile the Indians used their measly120 troops strength to be only a small part of a large army supposedly out of view.

    Just merely speaking a language doesn't cut it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yR0lWICH3rY

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 02:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    ***“ Just merely speaking a language doesn't cut it...”*** ..., even when one speaks the same language...: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UGRcJQ9tMbY

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 10:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Chicureo
    Man, that's a lot of weak points. Incompatible radios and no encryption, they were just asking for trouble. And both sides have nukes now...!

    IIRC, the Germans were convinced the allies were planning to land near Calais before D-day. Pretty impressive secrecy for such a huge operation involving several countries' forces. Of course it helped that we were decrypting all their communications and had turned a bunch of their spies to pass misinformation back to Hitler. :)

    @Think
    “Faster than a whippet gets a hard-on,” lol.

    I once had a temp job in student support, and we had to ring the Student Loans company in Glasgow sometimes. It was always a struggle to understand what they were saying, and they couldn't always understand us, either. Definitely one of the harder accents. American is easier just because we get so much of their media, yet I still come across phrases that baffle me sometimes.

    Which Spanish speakers are the least understandable?

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 12:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Today they're several PSYOPS operations going on in Venezuela by governments and private corporations against the people there. The Maduro regime is correctly calling out the treachery being committed against him is hurting the country, but in my opinion he's brought it upon himself.

    Perhaps the first time I learned about PSYOPS was by watching “The Man Who Never Was” movie that was based on historical fact and was one of Churchill's favorite post-war dinner stories.

    I also remember seeing “Our Man in Havana” a 1959 British spy comedy film with Alec Guinness was also was an introduction to what MI6 was and opened my eyes that INTELLIGENCE can be an oxymoron...

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 01:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Chicureo
    The loss of power, what else? In the past it always seemed the Chavistas were exaggerating American actions against them, and most of their problems were self inflicted, but this time the wolf has come for real. And they ARE hurting a country that's in bad enough shape already. After all their disasters, isn't it time the Americans got out of the regime change business?

    I've never seen either of those films, though I've heard the story of the first one. I bet intelligence is still just as bad today in some cases.

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 04:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Talking of oxymorons, how about “ intelligent Terry” ??

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 04:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    “Talking of oxymorons” Is you opining, I'd be careful with your particular vulnerabilities. Unless you are a masochist and enjoy public humiliations.

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 05:16 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    DemonTree

    I've been reading the news feed today and it's not clear if it was due to the USA, or the internal rebellion itself. (In Chile it was very common to experience power outages during the Pinochet years.)

    The real terrible damage that's directly being done by the USA is the economic embargo which is crippling the Venezuelan government. There are fully loaded oil tankers anchored just off port with no destination to go through.

    I think Maduro will fight out to the bitter end, but his adversaries are going for the long term if necessary. It's only going to get a lot worse.

    Jack

    Nice site on good buys in the USA: https://www.reversewinesnob.com

    (By the way, it's been repeatedly proven to never argue with GOLLUM. He will only bring you down to his subterranean dismal level and squeal at you with fabricated mendacious quotes from criminal idiots he admires.)

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 05:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Gollum,
    I'm sorry.....how can I make it up to you ? by paying your fare down to CWB ?

    Chicureo
    Right again, no point in trying to debate anything sensibly with the undernourished, slimy albino. The only way to get him to agree with you, is if you agree with him.....

    Regarding https://www.reversewinesnob.com thanks for the 'dica'. Sounds interesting (Kirkland Signature).

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 06:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Jack

    The problem is that Kirkland is the house label of Costco and can only be purchased by them. Costco is the largest retailer of wine. If you have access to oneness the future, it's a good place to buy practically everything. Their prices are legendary for being low.

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 07:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Terence Hill

    Chicureo the flamer
    Remind me how many luminaries you can espouse in support of your less than honourable endeavours, none that I recall.
    Did you get the pigs slopped out?
    “He will only” seek the endorsement of worthy quotations, like the following.
    “A President Worthy of a Nobel Peace Prize: Eisenhower & the Freedom of Space
    There is another president who should have received the prize long ago for stabilizing a world teetering on the brink of nuclear war. After leading Allied forces to victory over Nazi Germany, Dwight D. Eisenhower negotiated a cease-fire to Harry Truman's war in Korea, resisted calls for American intervention in Vietnam, and single-handedly defused the 1956 Suez Crisis. His warnings about the “military-industrial complex” did more to check the growth of the national security state than all past or future peace marches combined.
    But only recently has Eisenhower’s greatest achievement become clear: ensuring the right to peaceful uses of outer space.
    http://www.pff.org/issues-pubs/ps/2010/ps6.2-president-worthy-of-nobel-peace-prize.html
    Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
    ”Right again,” You stick to the personal attacks, because other than that, if you opine about any matter that is untrue. Wacko, you can be sure I will prove it.

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 09:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Geeeeeeeeeeee....

    You two Scrooges are getting on my nerves...

    Anybody can nowadays buy a drinkable bottle of plonk for almost no money..., everywhere...

    But already the ancient Etuscan and Greeks knew that you have to pay the price for a quality amphorae...

    Capisce...?

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 09:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Chicureo
    “it's not clear if it was due to the USA, or the internal rebellion itself”

    Guaido is obviously backed by the US, so not much difference.

    “In Chile it was very common to experience power outages during the Pinochet years.”

    You'll be telling me next he didn't make the trains run on time.

    But yes, the US can do a lot of damage even without invading. I wonder if Russia or China will be willing to get more involved? Whatever happens it won't be good for Venezuela.

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 09:29 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK

    El vino abre las puertas con asombro y en el refugio de los meses vuelca su cuerpo de empapadas alas rojas. ~ Pablo Neruda.


    DemonTree

    You assume that Guaido is merely a puppet of the USA. I don't think so, but he definitely have the all important blessing by them and almost all of Latin America.

    I also think that besides a lot of multinational corporations, both China and Russia are playing both sides to protect their collateral properties. If/When Maduro falls and a default occurs, they want to still remain with their legitimate rights.

    Open your eyes, the Venezuelan crisis is a train wreck. The entire railway system needs to be rebuilt. Even Russian media is now reporting of “incompetent petroleum management” there.

    Mar 08th, 2019 - 11:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Shicureo...

    El Shilote comunista ese no era ningún estúpido...

    Como tampoco lo era aquel antiguo franchute revolucionario...

    https://books.google.it/books?id=2GiCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT24&lpg=PT24&dq=“I+serve+your+Beaune+to+my+friends,+but+your+Volnay+I+keep+for+myself”&source=bl&ots=-Xi4hwXfdj&sig=ACfU3U0OPN3k5cn1GbUot16hxEgZiF6dAA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjnjKzD5PPgAhWF6qQKHU0WDXcQ6AEwDHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=“I%20serve%20your%20Beaune%20to%20my%20friends%2C%20but%20your%20Volnay%20I%20keep%20for%20myself”&f=false

    Seguro qué ambos coincidían en que la vida es demasiado corta para malos vinos...

    Mar 09th, 2019 - 12:34 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    “Show me a man who does not appreciate Pablo Neruda and I'll know certainly he ignorantly drinks Piscola.” Sebastián Piñera

    Mar 09th, 2019 - 01:32 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Shicureo...

    Even if your current president reads books..., in stark contraposition of ours..., I find it difficult to trust any of his politically correct statements...

    Remember that he is an “escorpionista de estirpe”..., and it does show...

    Mar 09th, 2019 - 06:23 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Estimado THINK

    The sad part for your nation is that my “escorpionista de estirpe” knows how to best manage my nation's economy.

    Something that Maduro also fails to manage....

    BTW the news I'm seeing is that the power failure seems not to be of sabotage, but instead because of a poorly maintained electrical grid with insufficient parts for repair. It would be logical that it was sabotage, but it looks apparently not...

    Mar 09th, 2019 - 04:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    Yeah, most large supermarket chains have their own house brands....but no problem, then we go back to Costco....been there, a great shopping experience.
    Unfortunately for Stink, looks like he has little appreciation for good wine...but if he's satisfied with his 'plonk', nothing wrong with that.....as the saying goes, 'the best wine is the one you like'.

    Mar 09th, 2019 - 10:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Jack

    Costco also sells some very high price wines as well, including the most expensive labels of Champagne.

    I see that Bolsonaro is paying an official visit to the USA. Can you imagine if the to countries join together on trade... They are the largest exporters of soya in the world.

    ...it's interesting right now that almost no independent news is getting out of Caracas because of the power outage. Ex-pats here in Chile are getting panicked as they've been remaining in contact with their families left behind via social media.

    Mar 09th, 2019 - 11:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Shicureo...

    The sad part for your nation is that your “escorpionista de estirpe” knows how to best manage your nation's economy...., for the few...

    BTW...
    I THINK that you..., as an Anglophile Shilean milico with some time-honoured conservative moral values..., should be able to sense the difference between a family (Rozas-Echenique-Piñera) that made its fortune by inviting unsuspecting Anglos to their home and treacherously murdering them to steal their pertenencies and a family (Bachelet) whose later patriarch gave his life in respect of his word of honour to Chile...

    Have a nice Sunday...

    Mar 10th, 2019 - 09:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    Re “Bolsonaro pays tribute”
    I wish I knew what they meant by foreign debt. Clearly the IMF loan qualifies, but bonds sold by the government can be bought by anyone, foreign or domestic.

    According to this, external debt is money borrowed in a foreign currency, resulting in vulnerability to foreign interest rates, but it also says the distinction is mostly semantics:

    https://bizfluent.com/info-7803516-internal-vs-external-debt.htmlv

    “as the foreign reserves were invested externally, very likely at an interest rate lower than that being paid on the IMF loan.”

    TBH, probably not. This was before 2008, when interest rates in the US and EU were over 5%. The BR government could almost certainly have got more than 4% by investing the reserves. There were other reasons to pay off the IMF loan, but from a strictly financial point of view, it probably wasn't beneficial.

    And if they paid off any other foreign debt, it would have been by issuing bonds at the interest rate determined by the central bank. Something the government had control of, according to you, as the BCB wasn't/isn't strictly independent?

    Agree spending all your foreign reserves would be a bad idea, and as far as I can see they didn't. But Lula did think it was a good opportunity to borrow more, for infrastructure projects. Again from a strictly financial view, that was probably true, but knowing the way things work in Brazil, not so much.

    RE the central bank, according to that 'citizen's audit' site, it was their policies that mainly caused the economic crisis in Brazil, with high interest rates and reducing the amount of currency in circulation. And as of 2017, they were still following them:

    https://bizfluent.com/info-7803516-internal-vs-external-debt.htmlv

    Mar 10th, 2019 - 10:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • :o))

    @Jack Bauer

    REF: Maduro's rhetoric and Russia's accusing Washington of interventionism are a joke.....has Russia already forgotten about Crimea, Ukraine?

    TRUE - although missing Syria. All it needs is a pretext - no matter how absurd - a justification!

    A similarity [hypocrisy + double-standards] is obvious in the Hugging+Kissing in N. Korea, Saudi Arabia, etc. [NOT forgetting the “eulogy” of his own advocate - Michael Cohen]

    REF: Venezuela:

    It's not “After Maduro who” but AFTER Maduro; “WHAT”?

    I mean; what will happen to the REAL Big-Businesses such as the transactions involving Drugs, Arms, Cash [dirty]? THAT's a BIG worry of the “concerned” bigwigs!

    WHILE, Back in Brazil:
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-x8xpQTpJZ7I/WoetE7pFFuI/AAAAAAAA4aA/-xn0lm1z88E6OPPEYOEfEvfAmnuGfoiUACLcBGAs/s1600/.1.jpg

    Mar 10th, 2019 - 01:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Beautiful words by Pablo Neruda than seems appropriate for the current situation...

    Barrio sin luz

    ¿Se va la poesía de las cosas
    o no la puede condensar mi vida?
    Ayer -mirando el último crepúsculo-
    yo era un manchón de musgo entre unas ruinas.

    Las ciudades -hollines y venganzas-,
    la cochinada gris de los suburbios,
    la oficina que encorva las espaldas,
    el jefe de ojos turbios.

    Sangre de un arrebol sobre los cerros,
    sangre sobre las calles y las plazas,
    dolor de corazones rotos,
    podre de hastíos y de lágrimas.

    Un río abraza el arrabal
    como una mano helada que tienta en las tinieblas:
    sobre sus aguas se avergüenzan
    de verse las estrellas.

    Y las casas que esconden los deseos
    detrás de las ventanas luminosas,
    mientras afuera el viento
    lleva un poco de barro a cada rosa.

    Lejos… la bruma de las olvidanzas
    -humos espesos, tajamares rotos-,
    y el campo, ¡el campo verde!, en que jadean
    los bueyes y los hombres sudorosos.

    Y aquí estoy yo, brotado entre las ruinas,
    mordiendo solo todas las tristezas,
    como si el llanto fuera una semilla
    y yo el único surco de la tierra.

    Mar 10th, 2019 - 02:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +1
  • Think

    Shicureo en Shicureo...
    “La cochinada gris del suburbio” te pegó con todo esta tarde de domingo..., ché...!
    Perdido parece estar todo tu interés por la historia de Shile y de sus patricias familias...
    Suerte que uno siempre puede hallar refugio en el tibio vientre materno de la poesia zurdosa...

    Mar 10th, 2019 - 09:48 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    Foreign debt : total sum a country owes in foreign currency (loans taken by govt, State ‘n privately owned cos/individuals) to foreign creditors, which can be other govts, int’l financial institutions, private banks ‘n investors...'n besides payment of the principal, may /may not foresee interest.
    The IMF money is no more than a bail out, which foresees paying back principal ‘n interest.

    Govts aren't responsible for the debt of private companies, however those values are included in the total.
    Internal debt refers to loans taken in the domestic market. These distinctions are pretty basic 'n straight forward.
    Don’t confuse debt with a country’s (foreign) “reserves” which can be invested in other nation’s govt bonds, gold, banknotes, whatever…but if loaned out, at interest, the rate will depend on factors such as demand, (presumably US) inflation 'n prime rate, risk etc…and usually what you lend will pay less than when you borrow...(bank spread)
    With US$ 300 billion in ‘reserves’, and a debt of US$ 100 bill, liquidating it is just a case of transferring the money to the creditors. What's important is the practical effect, not the mechanics.

    “The BR government could almost certainly have got more than 4% by investing the reserves”…. I doubt it. Reserves need to be invested safely, which implies low-risk, and low interest.

    As to Brazil’s CB independence, if you compare it to the US’s Fed, it’s not independent. While supposedly meant to work in sync with the country’s interests (control the money tap, determine the prime rate, currency stability etc), it can be ‘coerced’ into attending 'govt' interests…(as during the PT era). If the CB’s independence is only ‘relative’, it should theoretically be based on responsible govt fiscal policy.

    It’s too complicated to go into much detail here, regarding foreign debt 'n the ‘reserves’, but my initial criticism was from a financial point of view.....the politics behind such decisions, is another story.

    Mar 11th, 2019 - 06:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    If foreign debt includes money owed by private companies, then the government couldn't possibly have paid it off, even if they wanted to. And what about when one nation invests in another's government bonds? Eg China owns a decent percentage of the US national debt, but it's all in dollars. Is that foreign debt or internal debt or what?

    As for reserves, if they're in gold or banknotes they won't be earning anything, but gvmt bonds pay interest. Not sure how US bonds work, but back in 2005 UK gilts had yields over 4%. Anyway, it seems we've switched sides and now you're the one defending Lula for paying off the IMF debt. ;)

    Just realised I forgot and tried to include 2 links in my last post. The article from the 'citizen's audit' is here:

    https://auditoriacidada.org.br/conteudo/o-que-provocou-crise-economica-atual/

    Mar 11th, 2019 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Maduro is now calling on the paramilitary groups ... the colectivos ... to take matters into their own hands. This shows his total lack of control — and will provoke massive civil unrest.

    From Twitter:

    Gabriel Bastidas
    @Gbastidas
    “Le hago un llamado a los colectivos, llegó la hora de la resistencia activa”, dice Maduro a sus grupos de paramilitares armados que han disparado contra civiles y voluntarios. #11Mar

    Mar 12th, 2019 - 11:43 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Ahhh... Shicureo...

    The unbearable dichotomy of being a Milico and a Thinking man is hitting you hard these days..., huhhhhh...?

    First you remember your beloved Pablo Neruda's poems to dulm your bad conscience...

    Then you forget your beloved Thomas Jefferson's words 'bout calling out the “Colectivos” to fight them Anglo tyrants...
    http://tjrs.monticello.org/letter/100

    Mar 12th, 2019 - 08:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    Private companies (multinationals) usually take loans from banks (or their HQ's) 'n represents VERY little of the total debt....'n obviously, nothing to do with the government's debt, so irrelevant to the current discussion.

    “And what abt when one nation invests in another's govt bonds? Eg China owns a decent percentage of US national debt, but it's all in dollars. Is that foreign debt ,internal debt or what? ”
    The US issues bonds (in USD, strong currency), which are bought by whoever has the money, in this case, China...to whom it is investment ; To the US it's foreign debt (as creditor is China),'n the US will pay interest on it, to China, and honour it (buy it back) when it comes due...in perhaps 10, 20 + years ? If China needed to raise cash, it could sell the bonds to another country, at a premium (agio) or at a loss, depending on what the bonds are worth on the int'l market.
    Look, I'm no expert on international finance, but basically, on a far simpler scale it works like an individual either taking a loan fm a bank (paying principal 'n interest), or lending his money to one (investing in funds, CD's etc, earning interest (risk involved will determine the rates).

    If you had tons of cash('reserves'), you'd obviously invest in all kinds of assets...gold doesn't pay interest, but is (usually) a secure investment 'n your gain/ loss is the fluctuation in price...just need to buy / sell at the right time....you could invest in high-risk bonds, higher return but subject to default, or in more conservative bonds, with lower return. All depends on what you (or govt) is looking for .

    “it seems we've switched sides 'n now you're the one defending Lula for paying off the IMF debt.”......no way...don't know how you concluded that, but afaic Lula paid off the debt unnecessarily.
    The “practical effect” (2008): an enormous increase in interest (4 X), 'n its political use. Nevertheless, financially speaking, a bad decision. Do the math.
    Yr link supports my opinion

    Mar 12th, 2019 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Chicureo

    Estimato THINK

    I've repeatedly quoted “...the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it’s natural manure.” I've also said that a violent overthrow is inevitable unless the military separates from Maduro.

    The Yanki embassy in Caracas tonight is nearly abandoned with only a few Marine guards remaining.

    As I also said earlier, the CIA (or similar) has been shown not guilty of causing the power outages due to terrible mismanagement of the energy grid.

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 12:37 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Shicureo...

    I see that your “Milico You” needs things to be spelled out..., slowly...,c learly and in numerical order to be understood...

    1) Don't you THINK it is quite coincidential that even after ~20 years of Chavismo's “terrible mismanagement of the energy grid” as you call it (without presenting any proof btw...) it totally colapses for the very first time..., JUUUUST NOW...?

    2) Don't you THINK it is a bit dichotomic of you to celebrate Thomas Jefferson's ***”Calling out of the “Colectivos” (Militias)“*** to fight against them foreign Anglo tyrants..., whilst condemming Nicolas Maduro's ***”Calling out of the “Colectivos” (Militias) to fight against them foreign Anglo tyrants...?

    3) Do you remember me posting a video to you lads some three (3) weeks ago..., CLEARLY showing that Maduro's administration was NOT responsible for the burning of them trucks with “humanitarian help...?
    Well that's what the ”Free American Press” found out yesterday... using me very same video...!
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pNFxer-G_UU&t=245s

    ERGO..., in me humble opinion..., it is a bit early to declare (again..., without any proof) that..: ***”The CIA (or similar) has been shown not guilty of causing the power outages...”***..., don't you THINK...?

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 11:28 am - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    Chicureo
    It's quite hilarious that “Stink” should think he is being humble....anything but....he raises the questions (1,2,3 above) then proceeds to answers them himself.....with a perspicuity that would make anyone envious.....he must be expecting congratulations for his insight.

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @Think
    ”Don't you THINK it is a bit dichotomic of you to celebrate Thomas Jefferson's ***”Calling out of the “Colectivos” (Militias)“*** to fight against them foreign Anglo tyrants..., whilst condemming Nicolas Maduro's ***”Calling out of the “Colectivos” (Militias) to fight against them foreign Anglo tyrants...?”

    Actually, Thomas Jefferson was talking about calling out the militias to fight a domestic rebellion against the government. I reckon he would have said calling on them to fight foreign tyrants was a no-brainer. But thanks for linking to the longer quote, I never knew the context before. Especially interesting in light of the 2nd amendment Americans are so fond of.

    @JB
    Seems to me that government debt is not simple at all, and those articles were being misleading by claiming Brazil had paid it all off. When a government sells bonds it doesn't control who buys them, it could be a domestic pension scheme or foreign nation, and they can sell them on in turn. So the only way to stop owing other countries would be to pay off ALL government debt. That's a lot different to taking out a loan, where you know who is lending you money and the bank sets the interest rate, even besides the fact that a government generally has more options such as printing money to pay debt (which has other consequences, but it's still a choice).

    “don't know how you concluded that”

    You were saying Brazil paid off the IMF debt (but not other foreign debt) from reserves, and that the reserves wouldn't have earned as much as Brazil was paying the IMF in interest. In that circumstance it makes financial sense to pay it off early, no?

    Re my link, the worrying thing is that it says the central bank is still following the same policy, thereby significantly hampering any recovery.

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 03:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    the whole point is not whether the foreign debt was ALL paid off, whether a tiny portion of it was not the government's responsibility, it's simply that to pay off the foreign debt - wholly or partially - at a relatively low interest rate in comparison to the internal debt's, did not make financial sense. And if you consider the 'timing' (that the debt was indeed liquidated, OR 'internalized'), it helps to explain 'why' it was done.
    That the bond issuer does not control who buys them, is totally irrelevant to my point....as I said, the 'mechanics' of the operation is not what is important, but whether the operation was beneficial or not.....for Brazil.
    Using the word 'loan', or 'bonds', is just a matter of semantics, as it does not change the result.

    What I eventually said (after talking about the 2008 operation) was that Brazil - in 2005/6 - liquidated US$ 15,5 billion owed to the IMF....having the foreign reserves, invested (or not) at a presumably lower return that the interest being paid to the IMF, and using them to pay the debt, (in this case) made sense.
    The operation carried out in 2008, when the foreign debt was (only) internalized, was a bad financial decision, as the practical effect was an enormous increase in the amount of interest paid by the government...nothing more.
    It's hardly rocket science.

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 03:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Mr. DemonTree...

    Somebody, sometimes presses that “+” button on some of me humble comments...
    I would appreciate that person to stop such thoughtless practice...
    It only provokes the green-eyed envy of them Turnips...
    And ruins me reputation... ;-)

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 05:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    “the whole point is not whether the foreign debt was ALL paid off”

    Any financial site will tell you Brazil still had a national debt in 2008; the government was still selling bonds. And some of these would inevitably be bought by foreign governments or banks or corporations. So what does it mean when those articles claim Lula paid the external debt? Most likely, that they are ill informed or else trying to mislead.

    If an article can't get basic facts right, nor agree with others, then I'm not going to trust its conclusions either. Without knowing exactly how much was paid off nor how the money was raised, then we can't judge how good or bad a decision it was.

    ”using them to pay the debt, (in this case) made sense.”

    Well then, you do agree with Lula in this one case. It would be a bit too much of a coincidence if you objected to 100% of what he did.

    @Think
    What? Your comment doesn't have any votes.






    ;)

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Think

    Roger Over ;-)

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 07:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • Jack Bauer

    DT
    Let's simplify this, as it looks like we're going round in circles....
    In 2008 Lula borrowed (or whatever you want to call it) money from the local banks to buy back Brazil's foreign debt....wholly or partially, makes no difference, as that is not the point in question. The point is that the government then owed to the Brazilian banks.

    The foreign debt was (supposedly) zeroed (at a given moment), as the equivalent amount was internalized, or, “added” to the internal debt. Foreign debt, down...internal debt, up.

    Whatever “part” of the foreign debt that was internalized, 'had been' costing Brazil (an average of ) 4% a year.....once internalized - basically a transfer from int'l creditors to local banks - it started to cost almost 4 to 5 times as much. Local interest rates far higher than the int'l ones.

    Lula claimed he'd paid off the foreign debt (all of it, most of it ? doesn't really matter), which then improved Brazil's int'l rating etc, etc, etc....thus allowing Brazil to issue/sell new bonds, to obtain more dollars (and again start to build up another foreign debt). And it doesn't matter who bought the bonds.

    “In this one case” (2005/6), I don't necessarily 'agree' with Lula, because his motivation was purely political, but financially speaking it was ok - he used funds (foreign reserves) with a low return, to buy back debt paying higher interest. I'm only criticizing the internalization of the debt in 2008, because of the interest rates, as I explained way above. Simple.

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 07:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0
  • DemonTree

    @JB
    ”In 2008 Lula borrowed (or whatever you want to call it) money from the local banks to buy back Brazil's foreign debt.

    Yeah but did he? Most of the articles just mentioned paying off the IMF debt, and as far as I can see, Lula only claimed the country was a net creditor, which is different to actually paying off the debt. The ability to borrow more (quickly taken advantage off, resulting in the debt growing again), seems to be the only part that's been confirmed.

    “I don't necessarily 'agree' with Lula, because his motivation was purely political”

    Well, you know how the left - and not just the left - feels about the IMF. No country wants to have their economy under outside control, forced to implement policies that often worsen problems, besides the fact it's an admission of failure.

    Mar 13th, 2019 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0

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