MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Bolsonaro points to Carnival excesses and triggers Twitter controversy
Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro has provoked controversy by posting an obscene video of two revelers at Carnival, saying he wanted to reveal the truth about the festival. The clip posted on Twitter shows two men engaging in sex acts on top of a taxi shelter during a street party. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesPeeing is a sex act? I guess if you like to compare yourself to Trump...
Mar 07th, 2019 - 11:17 am - Link - Report abuse 0“we have to expose the truth so the population are aware”
Mar 07th, 2019 - 12:17 pm - Link - Report abuse +1AGREED! Glad to know that surprisingly, Brazil has a serious AND law abiding president!
But what about his “OTHER” truths?
As The Population is ALREADY aware of them; when will he be confessing them?
https://i0.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Caminhonetes-noticiario.jpg?zoom=0.8999999761581421&w=640&ssl=1
Important information for Brazil's President:
Mar 07th, 2019 - 01:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://twitter.com/wwwmlna/status/1103274005904179202?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1103274005904179202
Is posting obscene videos part of the presidential duties now?
@DemonTree
Mar 07th, 2019 - 03:21 pm - Link - Report abuse +1Why do you criticize a respectable person - actually THE honorable president nonetheless; of a great, powerful, progressive & a rich country?
At least he is honest enough to show what he enjoys getting done The Most! What's your problem? The president HIMSELF: https://cdn.dribbble.com/users/332742/screenshots/2055884/clown.gif
Heh, are you talking about The Loudmouth, or Bolsonaro?
Mar 07th, 2019 - 04:13 pm - Link - Report abuse +1https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/820804443524440065/XN_yq5VW.jpg
I came up with a new and better campaign slogan for Bolsonaro:
“Carnaval acima de tudo, Brasil mijando en todos”
@DemonTree
Mar 07th, 2019 - 04:52 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF: are you talking about The Loudmouth, or Bolsonaro
You mean they aren't two sides of the SAME coin?
REF: “Carnaval acima de tudo, Brasil mijando en todos”
OF COURSE - but only if it is with the due respect!
@ALL
Mar 07th, 2019 - 05:47 pm - Link - Report abuse 0peeing is not a sex act....nor is shaking your bare arse in public....neither is peeing on someone's head...it's just disgusting.....but obviously some peope love it.
Not at all surprising Brazil is in the shit, nobody respects anything any more.
As I said in another post, funny is that B is the villain here, not the perverts...
Sorry JB, but it's funny in EVERY way. Especially now I know B had to ask twitter what a golden shower is. Should've just asked his American buddy. ;)
Mar 07th, 2019 - 06:23 pm - Link - Report abuse +1:o)), the President of Brazil must be UNUSUALLY respectable for a leader. Just look at the competition:
http://en.protothema.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/piggate-2.jpg
i.ytimg.com/vi/FSGfkqZl0GM/maxresdefault.jpg
media.apnarm.net.au/media/images/2014/10/03/abbott_togs-g15qlmcd30rnpzifxi2_t460.JPG
@Jack Bauer
Mar 07th, 2019 - 07:04 pm - Link - Report abuse +1REF: “some people love it”:
OBVIOUSLY!
#1: But if it's a crime; shouldn't they be locked-up - instead of helping them earn fame+fortune by publicising such videos for the millions of viewers on Twitter - that too by none other than a highly [supposed to be] respectable personality?
#2: Isn't it plausible - QUITE plausible - that the Porno-Producers paid kickbacks for making them world-famous OVERNIGHT; by perfectly legitimate means? Or were the funds transferred clandestinely to various accounts of his friends+relatives+sons? Queiroz, maybe?
#3: Or maybe he just perfecting his natural talent which he is famous for?
https://www.rbsdirect.com.br/imagesrc/24922334.jpg?w=700
REF: “funny is that B is the villain here, not the perverts”:
Neither the perverts are the villains! As you mentioned: “nobody respects anything any more”: There is NO business as “DOUGH” Business!
https://www.rbsdirect.com.br/imagesrc/24922334.jpg?w=700
I'm not saying they committed a crime, far less should be locked up...and quite frankly I couldn't care less if they had given each other a blow-job, I'm just surprised - or rather, I'm not - that people would criticize the posting and not the act......but I suppose that has become the moral compass today, and everyone has the right to their opinion.
Mar 07th, 2019 - 08:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Geeeeeeeeeeeee...
Mar 07th, 2019 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Anglo Turnip above with that very fitting violence porn nick...: ***“Jack Bauer”***..., who approves and supports the rape and murder (not necessarily in that order) of Brasilian street children under the age of eight (8)..., has the Chuzpah of talking about “Moral Compasses”...
That I find disgusting...
@ :o))
Mar 07th, 2019 - 10:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Isn't it plausible - QUITE plausible - that the Porno-Producers paid kickbacks for making them world-famous OVERNIGHT”
ROFL. That's hilarious, but there are probably easier - much easier - ways to make money when you're President of Brazil.
@JB
Hope that wasn't your local block! It could easily be considered a crime here. I don't suppose Mercopress would have posted a video of a blowjob, though. Wonder if Bolsonaro would have? That's what I thought when I saw the headline. Brazilian carnival porn, courtesy of the President. Lol.
Honestly, it's not so bad. Our last PM was accused of putting a “private part of his anatomy” into a dead pig's mouth as part of an initiation ceremony for the Piers Gaveston Society. (By a guy who donated £10m to the Conservative party and expected to be given a senior role in government as a result - the real scandal.) And there are plenty of drunken idiots behaving badly every Saturday night in the city centres. It just seems kinda inappropriate for a president to be posting videos like that. It's the curse of Twitter (and why do Twitter allow it? I though they were strict on nudity now?)
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Mar 07th, 2019 - 11:07 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Chubut turnip is outdoing Terry the turd, aka as Golum....rape and murder well, well, well.
Your insisting on posts taken out of context make you a prime competitor for 'a.hole of the year'...maybe you are jealous because you would have liked to have been on the taxi shelter, waving your bum around and getting a golden shower.....you can't have it all, Stink..
DT
No, it was near the centre of town.
Re your PM, there's no accounting for people's tastes...
B posted it only to make a point...as many people are already becoming fed up with carnival 'excesses'.......but understand his gesture as you will.
@Jack Bauer / @DemonTree
Mar 08th, 2019 - 02:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “I'm just surprised - or rather, I'm not - that people would criticize the posting and not the act”
Frankly, I'm profoundly impressed by the depth of his knowledge of pornohraphy; besides his interest + commitment to giving portngraphy so much of publicity.
His leadership in bringing pornography to the attention of his faithful devotees; is also admirable!
that's not all - hats-off to his heightened power of focussed attention; by the virtue of which, he could notice only the deprivation in the carnival-scene and nothing else at all!
REF: “That's hilarious, but there are probably easier - much easier - ways to make money when you're President of Brazil”:
Yes, you ARE right - especially when there is a lot of encouragement from his own family+friends+team!
On the other hand, what could be easier than earning millions by a simple twit [pun intended]? Or maybe, the support [wholehearted] from his own party of oranges?
https://www.diariodocentrodomundo.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/queiroz.jpg
TWIMC...
Mar 08th, 2019 - 09:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0I can see that young Anglo Mr. DemonTree is actively participating in this thread...
Maybe he could find the time to tell us if Anglo Turnip “Jack Bauer” was cited ***“Out of Context”*** by this humble Patagonian about his aproval and support of the murdering of very young Brasilian children by death squads financed by the Brazilian right wing...
As far as my frail memory remembers..., Mr. DemonTree and Turnip Jack Bauer had a longish exchange of opinions about that specific matter...
@JB
Mar 08th, 2019 - 10:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0The story is plausible because it's the kind of thing (we imagine) posh boys who go to Eton get up to. But it was probably just invented by Ashcroft, a tax-evading billionaire who bought his way into our House of Lords, and donated millions (from an offshore tax haven) to the Conservative party on condition it go to his favoured candidates. His political career is a fucking mockery of democracy.
As for B, I assumed he posted it to make a point. But has he forgotten he's President now? Anything he 'twits' is bound to draw international attention, is this really the image of Brazil he wants to share with the world?
@ :o))
“I'm profoundly impressed by the depth of his knowledge of pornohraphy”
I'm not. Who gets to 64 without knowing what a golden shower is? Unless it's called something else in Brazil?
And business is probably pretty slow for Queiroz these days...
@Think
You didn't mention nothing about rape before. But otherwise, I don't think it was out of context.
@Jack Bauer
Mar 08th, 2019 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “'A.HOLE OF THE YEAR'”
In continuation, wrt my earlier comments of 7-March:
http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/DODIA//duke.jpg
@DemonTree...
Mar 08th, 2019 - 02:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You wouldn't Think those hyenas would waste an easy piece of young., tender flesh..., would you...?
@DemonTree
Mar 08th, 2019 - 03:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Who gets to 64 without knowing what a golden shower is? Unless it's called something else in Brazil?”:
You are right!
Of course, they MUST be doing it in Brazil but obviously under some other name or category!
In any case; with a World-Renowned Porn-Star + Porn-Producer in his team [practically a minister + a right-hand - actually; an old friend+philosopher+guide], it's just IMPOSSIBLE that he + the rest of the perverts wouldn't learn at least a few more tricks of the Porn-Trade to earn millions from it!
Surely, you are not so gullible to believe that he publicised the video ONLY because he thoroughly enjoys participating in such acts; and that too without earning ANYTHING from it?
Why else do you think that he made it a point to publish porn on his very own Twitter; if not for earning MORE $; as you know & already mentioned it yourself: “And business is probably pretty slow for Queiroz these days!”?
@Think
Mar 08th, 2019 - 04:23 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You're disturbing sometimes. Eight year olds? Even other criminals hate kiddy-fiddlers.
@ :o))
You're disturbing too, for different reasons. I'd forgotten Bolso had a porn star in his party, they could hold their own 'bloco' and post the video. I'm sure it would be even more popular.
@DemonTree
Mar 08th, 2019 - 04:54 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “I'd forgotten Bolso had a porn star in his party”:
You dare not forget such an illustrious & a highly respectable celebrity!
From the acceptance of the masses, it looks like he IS well-qualified to be the next president [or maybe the “vice” of a Vice-President?] unless of course if Bolso Jr, Cabral, or Cunha, or Neves [or maybe some bishop or a King-Pin Trafficker] gets luckier to be the next president!
The Well-Informed Ignorants are already willing, able & eager to create history! Afterall, the cabinets, senate, & other whore-houses are already FULL of the likes of him:
http://domtotal.com/img/charges/2189.jpg
REF: “I'm sure it would be even more popular.”:
One kind of carnival is over but the “OTHER” kind of carnival is ALMOST about to begin:
http://domtotal.com/img/charges/2189.jpg
Get real..., Mr. DemonTree...
Mar 08th, 2019 - 05:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Do you really Think violence is as straightcut as in Fantasytastic Jack Bauers 24 Hours Universe...?
Please remember.., in Anglo Turnip Jack Bauers world..., they ain't no kiddos..., they are varmint...
Besides..., if the Etonian Engrish Elite may stick theirs into animals..., why not the Brasilian right-wing plebs...?
@DemonTree
Mar 08th, 2019 - 05:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I know. It's tough to swallow but if one analyzes cold-bloodedly - generalizing & putting it bluntly - many governments are run by the Classic Whore-House Principles + those who run it [the government, I mean] have a Thorough Pimp-Mentality! In the democracies; this “phenomenon” is much more “visible”!
Can't/Don't believe this? Visit any nearby Whore-House!
@Stink
Mar 08th, 2019 - 06:09 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As far as my frail memory remembers...”.....not surprising, but sorry to say your frail memory remembers wrongly...
”***“JB”***..., who approves and supports the rape and murder (not necessarily in that order) of Brasilian street children under the age of eight (8)...”
The massacre of street kids which you are presumably referring to, took place in Rio (the safest city in Brazil), 1993....and was committed in reprisal to some of the kids throwing stones at a cop car the day before, and injuring a couple of its occupants....out of the 40 odd kids who were targeted, 8 were killed, ages 11 (1), 13 (1), 14 (2), 17 (2), 18 (1), 19 (1), and the survivor who identified the cops, 21; So much for your ”under the age of eight (8)“...
”...who approves and supports the rape and murder ”...I don't recall anyone getting raped....must be your fantasies acting up again.... suggested by your remark to DT (below):
“You wouldn't Think those hyenas would waste an easy piece of young., tender flesh..., would you...?”
Vigorously rubbing your hands together as you imagine the scene ? (of your 'hyenas' devouring 'young., tender flesh...,').
You sound like a lecherous old fart.....just as well there are only sheep wandering around your garden....time to put the Welly boots on, eh ?
Anyway, getting back on track, I Think I would have said or implied that I couldn't care less...which is slightly different to “approving and supporting”...don't you Think ?
You might think it's politically correct to care, but I am not obliged to feel sorry for a bunch of criminals in the making, and which obviously you have never seen the likes of in action, far less been one of their victims....but carry-on speaking through your elbows about something you know very little of.
So if not exactly 'out of context', just a wee bit exaggerated.
@DT
Golden shower = ”Chuva (rain) dourada”.....
@Think
Mar 08th, 2019 - 07:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's the way you put it, as if you were enjoying the image...
And even in 24, violence isn't straightforward. The 'hero' is rather famous for torturing people for information.
@JB
“committed in reprisal to some of the kids throwing stones at a cop car”
Seriously, what the f*ck is wrong with your cops? And these are the reliable, upstanding people your President wants to hand a licence to kill?
“You might think it's politically correct to care”
I don't. I think it's MORAL to care about kids being murdered by armed gangs. What kind of sick society doesn't?
”Chuva dourada”
I could easily have guessed what that means, given the context. But 'speak through your elbows'?
@DemonTree
Mar 08th, 2019 - 08:39 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It's the way you interpret it, as if I was enjoying the image...
Which I'm not...
Glad to hear it.
Mar 08th, 2019 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0But..., “You know Who”... surely is...
Mar 08th, 2019 - 09:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know who.
Mar 08th, 2019 - 10:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's the one...
Mar 09th, 2019 - 09:42 am - Link - Report abuse 0You just love being cryptic.
Mar 09th, 2019 - 09:53 am - Link - Report abuse 0I realised I replied to something Jack addressed to you. Are you going to complain at me again?
Boy...
Mar 09th, 2019 - 10:41 am - Link - Report abuse 0I am as cryptic as them dogs..., luuvingly looking directly into me eyes and drooling heavily in me general direction..., whilst I cut off the worst fatty bits of my bife de chorizo...
Capisce...?
Now that's just a flat out lie. Even your Spanish is 10 times harder to understand than everyone else's.
Mar 09th, 2019 - 11:47 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh....
Mar 09th, 2019 - 12:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I always suspected them devious border collies of wanting the whole steak.... ;-)
Or the whole you. Long pig for dinner.
Mar 09th, 2019 - 12:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No lad...
Mar 09th, 2019 - 05:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That particular task will..., in due time..., hopefully..., be fullfiled by the local condors...
@DT
Mar 09th, 2019 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Seriously, what the f*ck is wrong with your cops? And these are the reliable, upstanding people your President wants to hand a licence to kill?”
Considering the social classes from where most of our cops come from, i.e., much the same ones as the criminals, it's just a matter of which path they choose as adolescents: go directly into crime, or first the police, then into crime. Regardless, most cops are not like the few who enjoy killing sprees....it's those few who make the headlines, and give the police a bad reputation.....and just in case you were thinking about telling me how good the cops in the UK are.....please don't - there is absolutely no basis for comparison....just ask yourself if your cops have to face heavily armed criminal gangs all the time, and whether they need to fear for their lives every time they go out on patrol, or on a mission....their reality is totally different, and that molds a lot of their reactions....and in Rio, with dozens being murdered in cold blood, it's a matter of survival.
And exactly where have you read that Bolsonaro wants to transform Brazil's cops into virtual 007s ??
“I think it's MORAL to care about kids being murdered by armed gangs”
Sorry, here you learn to believe it all depends on who the kids are....the ones in Rio weren't just any common kids...a 'special' breed, being trained for bigger and worse things.....just one of the wee differences in Brazilian and UK reality.....could try to explain it til I'm blue in the face, you probably just wouldn't get it.....funny though, most Brits (and other Europeans, Kiwis) who have come to live here, at first don't either......but they all end up 'adapting'....and they survive the traumatic process.
“Speak through your elbows”.....“falar pelos cotovelos”, a common expression used here (direct translation from Portuguese), equivalent to 'talk through your hat'...
@JB
Mar 09th, 2019 - 11:45 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The new government’s security policy [...] includes provisions for judges to reduce penalties or not apply them at all in cases where police use excessive force as a result of “excusable fear, surprise or violent emotion.”
“The number of people killed in police actions has taken off in the past few weeks,” said Pedro Strozenberg, ombudsman at the Rio de Janeiro state public defender’s office. “It is the concrete result of a logic in public security policy of non-recognition of people’s rights.”
“Witnesses claim at least nine were executed while trying to surrender.”
https://www.ft.com/content/b2f5d7b0-3ba3-11e9-b856-5404d3811663
I wasn't going to compare to our police; I know they don't face anything like the same conditions. But what d'you think will happen if the cops execute criminals trying to surrender? The next lot aren't bloody well going to try it. They'll be fighting to the death, doing their best to kill the cops because there's no alternative.
“the ones in Rio weren't just any common kids...a 'special' breed, being trained for bigger and worse things”
I suppose they have no moral compass, don't care about human life, or the law? They're not the only ones.
@DemonTree
Mar 10th, 2019 - 12:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “The new government’s security policy............. as a result of “excusable fear, surprise or violent emotion.”
They can make bombastic statements. They can even change laws [+loopholes], policies, constitution + even national anthem - to their hearts' content!
BUT The Crux of the [overdue] Matter is that ONLY the bandits have the will to fight (or to fight back)!
The Police PLUS the Armed Forces - with all the advantages of the fire-power, training, majority in numbers & support; NEVER had the guts to minimize the Cartel-Power; let alone curbing - eliminating[!!!] it!
Invariably of course there is a [valid] justification from The [weak or weakened] Forces: Political-Interference!
So this is yet another gimmick for the oohs & aahs for the Ignorant-Believers PLUS The Blind-Followers! Least of all, not even worth calling it as a “storm” in a Tea-Cup!
https://www.diariodocentrodomundo.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/generais-600x317.jpg
@ :o))
Mar 11th, 2019 - 10:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0The US - and UK - army had even more advantages of training, firepower etc in Afghanistan. They could win every battle against the Taliban, bomb them, take out their leaders. But they never managed to eliminate them completely. In Brazil the criminals are often better armed than the police, and have a lot more experience at urban warfare (and killing people) than the army. Hardly surprising the authorities are unable to suppress them. In both cases, force alone may not be enough to solve the problem.
@DemonTree
Mar 11th, 2019 - 11:01 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “force alone may not be enough to solve the problem”:
Yes of course - my point is the same.
The Talis are giving a hard time to the US+UK+Afghan Armed Forces only because of their will to fight back PLUS also because for them, a lot is at stake [opium?].
The Brazil/RJ-Scenario is [+/-] similar - the cons which disfavor the Govt. Forces are the lesser willingness to fight + Absurdly Inferior Arms + Political Interference. Whereas the pros which favor the bandits are their willingness to fight, they have nothing to lose and a very big PLUS - their livelihood - the Business of Crime itself!
So, making pompous statements is a simple tool to keep The Ignorant-Believers + Blind-Followers keep blowing the Bolso-Trumpet! A great familiarity/similarity may be found in an article from The Washington Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-thinks-his-supporters-are-the-most-gullible-people-on-earth-are-they-really/2019/03/07/1e79a4c4-4119-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f005589958d8
DT
Mar 11th, 2019 - 07:02 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“The new govt’s security policy [...] includes provisions for judges to reduce penalties, not apply them at all in cases where police use excessive force as result of “excusable fear, surprise, violent emotion.”
Don't believe all you read ....what is happening here (imo) is an overdue reaction to what happened in 1992, in SP's largest prison. The military police were called by the Governor to quell a serious rebellion, so they went in. What they encountered - total darkness, flooded galleries, inmates attacking them with knives, iron bars, some guns, needles infected with HIV virus - resulted in the cops opening fire on any one who approached them. 111 inmates dead. After the investigation, all cops were tried, some convicted.
The effect of this soon became apparent… the police became almost reluctant to do their job, as in any shoot out, with deaths, the police were presumably always to blame, used excessive force etc...the present attempt to change the status quo of cops in any shootout, is merely leveling the playing field ‘n allowing them to do their jobs without going on virtual trial every time they shoot a criminal.
Mr. Strozenberg’s observation “concrete result of a logic in public security policy of non-recognition of people’s rights” was happening long b4 Jan 1st 2019. The death tolls increased all the way through the PT era…with the press, human rights, always defending the criminals….even b4 they ‘knew’ the truth.
Witnesses who were never there suddenly spring up to accuse the police….re the 9 killed : based on intel, police surrounded a house in a ‘favela’ where crime leaders were having a meeting….police version: criminals reacted to the order to surrender, a shootout ensued, 9 criminals killed, no cops. Police found many pistols, assault riles, ammo, but the press's‘ obvious’ conclusion : the police didn’t give them a chance “becos no cops died” (?)
No “armed” criminal ever tries to surrender. They'll fight to the death...of the cops.
@JB
Mar 11th, 2019 - 09:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I don't know what really happened in 1992, but that was a long, long time ago. Police in Brazil killed 5,144 people last year. Were any of them prosecuted, or sent to jail? Seems to me they already had little to fear from the courts, and now they've been given carte blanche to kill. Remembering what you said, that the police come from the same population as the criminals, and many end up involved in crime themselves... you really want to make it easier for these people to kill without oversight or consequence?
According to this police killings nearly doubled in January. Exactly what you and other Brazilians voted for?
https://www.insightcrime.org/news/brief/brazil-police-license-to-kill-rio/
“No “armed” criminal ever tries to surrender. They'll fight to the death...of the cops.”
And yet no cops died during that operation. Were any even injured? If criminals never surrendered, there wouldn't be over 700,000 people in jail in Brazil. And although the number of cops killed last year is shockingly high, it's not even close to the number they killed.
But, Brazil is determined to try this policy, so I guess over the next few years we'll get to see and judge the results.
DT
Mar 12th, 2019 - 10:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0There's one hell of a lot you don't know, that you couldn't even start to supect, but using your data - 5,144 police kills last year - do you know how many were the result of shootouts between cops 'n criminals ??
Re “Were any of them prosecuted, or sent to jail ?” By what I've seen on the news, the answer is YES. But I suppose the other side of the coin - that cops ARE punished - does not make headlines ; the press likes to give the impression the cops kill at random 'n get away with it. You aren't here to see what happens on a daily basis, and you are fed with a lot of bias.
“and now they've been given carte blanche to kill”....carte blanche ?? what crap.
That's the part YOU hear.....“Exactly what you and other Brazilians voted for?”....I see the 'brainwashing' is working.
“And yet no cops died during that operation”....that was ONE operation....cops are routinely injured, or killed (many 'off-duty'), but the press doesn't seem too interested in their casualties.
“there wouldn't be over 700,000 people in jail in Brazil”.....and what is that supposed to prove ? My statement referred to the violent shootouts, in which as long as the criminals have ammo, they'll use it.....none will run out with their hands up...you are being kinda naive....there are as many criminals loose, as there are behind bars.
Sounds like you believe that to be a level playing field, one cop has to die for every criminal killed....unbelievable ; Don't know whether you realize it or not, but you are defending the criminals, and virtually saying that their lives are as important as a cop's......Quite frankly, it's useless to debate this with you, because you haven't even started to grasp the basics of crime in Brazil. After you've lived in a country where crime is as it is here, you'll change a few of your concepts....all do.
The majority of Brazilians are in favour of the death penalty...it does not exist due to only political/religious reasons. That says it all.
“5,144 police kills last year - do you know how many were the result of shootouts between cops 'n criminals ??”
Mar 13th, 2019 - 02:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0It didn't say. Do you know how many were investigated thoroughly to determine what really happened? And how many of the people killed were criminals vs cases of mistaken identity or bystanders caught in the crossfire?
If you've seen cops being prosecuted on the news, then evidently it DOES make headlines sometimes. Nevertheless, I couldn't find anything relevant by googling. What should I search for, to find examples?
“That's the part YOU hear.....“Exactly what you and other Brazilians voted for?”....I see the 'brainwashing' is working.”
Are you really gonna tell me you think police killings doubling in Rio is a bad thing? Didn't you want to get 'tough on crime'?
“what is that supposed to prove”
Not every arrest turns into a violent shootout. Plenty of criminals are arrested and go to jail, even though many if not most are armed; you said it's easy for them to get guns. Once they've decided to fight, maybe they're unlikely to surrender, but that's not how every encounter goes, or has to go. Knowing they have a poor chance of shooting their way out, and that sentences are short, why wouldn't the criminals 'come out with their hands up' sometimes?
“The majority of Brazilians are in favour of the death penalty...it does not exist due to only political/religious reasons. That says it all.”
So were the majority of Brits until 2015, despite the much lower level of crime. It doesn't prove anything.
“you are defending the criminals, and virtually saying that their lives are as important as a cop's”
And you're saying their lives are worth nothing, even kids who just shoplifted, or even haven't done anything wrong but you think are likely to turn to crime.
These killings which you report, ultimately FAVOR the economy: Lesser Population = Increasing PIB/GDP = Welcomed / Encouraged by the government! Don't believe? Calculate yourselves! What's the problem?
Mar 13th, 2019 - 02:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DT
Mar 13th, 2019 - 04:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0““5,144 police kills last year - do you know how many were result of shootouts btwn cops 'n criminals ??”
”It didn't say”.
Right, but one thing is clear, the source didn't give all the relevant information, probably in the attempt to create the worst impression possible....police are murderers. End of story.
Only high-profile cases (which make headlines) are covered by the press, and even then, I don't know if everything is divulged and/or I don't get to see it all.
I'd say, by the reports (from Rio's urban violence), bystanders getting shot in the crossfire, or hit by a stray bullet (not fm a shootout) are just as common as cops getting killed...
“Not every arrest turns into a violent shootout.”.....let's not focus on isolated incidents, but on what generally happens....usually, criminals will hold their ground until they see themselves at a disadvantage.....then, they might surrender. If ALL criminals were killed, there'd be none in prison...obviously.
The criminals have access to all the weapons they want....that's why they are confident they can face the police. When criminals are killed, human rights activists spring out of the woodwork, and questions are raised, such as ' was it a good shoot' ? if a cop is killed, just a laconic note, and forget it.
The only explanation I have regarding the fact Brits are no longer in favor of the death penalty, is because the crime problem in the UK is nothing like it is in Brazil.
“And you're saying their lives are worth nothing.....”. Yes, afaic, they aren't worth a damn. Someone who commits deliberate 'n unnecessary murder, 'n doesn't even flinch, does not deserve to live. You may think that is callous, but until you've lived here, it's no use explaining it.
“....or even haven't done anything wrong but you think are likely to turn to crime”.
Just in case you are referring to the 8 street kids killed in Rio abt 25 yrs ago, that was NOT an official police operation....
Are most of the criminals killed in shootouts? Presume there are also cases like in the US, where a guy reached for his driving license and the police shot him, or a deaf man was shot because he didn't (couldn't) follow the orders they were shouting. Sadly there do seem to be crimes like in the US; I saw there was a school shooting near SP today.
Mar 13th, 2019 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“If ALL criminals were killed, there'd be none in prison...obviously.”
Exactly my point. Clearly there are a lot of shootouts, but criminals will surrender if they don't think they have a good chance. And if they do, the police need to let them, because that will affect what happens with the next gang. If they keep shooting, then of course they're likely to end up dead or seriously injured. The police have to protect themselves, but they should avoid escalating the violence.
That makes me wonder, though. If the criminals have easy access to weapons and often kill each other, it's kind of surprising that more police aren't killed in these confrontations. Maybe because the police plan them and make sure to have a large force? Seems more cops are murdered when they are off duty and not expecting it.
“The only explanation I have regarding the fact Brits are no longer in favor of the death penalty...”
More likely increasing wealth and education changed attitudes. It's not like crime suddenly fell in 2015, and it's rising sharply now..
“Someone who commits deliberate 'n unnecessary murder, 'n doesn't even flinch, does not deserve to live.”
What about more minor criminals, who've never killed anyone and don't intend to? I wasn't talking about the 8 kids killed in Rio, but the ones killed by death squads more generally. You said before that you didn't care about their murders, because they probably would have grown up to be criminals.
REF: “Minor” CRIMINALS:
Mar 14th, 2019 - 10:39 am - Link - Report abuse 0https://i1.wp.com/www.humorpolitico.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Vizinho-Miliciano-do-Bolsonaro.jpg?w=638&ssl=1
DT
Mar 14th, 2019 - 05:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'm pretty confident tt most criminals die in armed 'confrontations' - which average abt 30/day, in Rio alone. Those who eventually surrender, only do so (as I said) when they're at a disadvantage...and are most likely the ones who make up part of the 700,000 behind bars. Which excludes all those still free 'n committing crimes.
Criminals with assault rifles, unlimited ammo, will usually have the initial advantage over cops, so the idea of surrendering is last resort.
How are police meant to avoid escalating violence if they are being attacked, under heavy gunfire ? Your inability to grasp the brutality of these confrontations, 'n your fixed idea that Brazilian cops should act like those in the UK, leads you to criticize them....If you knew what they face every day, you might see things more clearly.
Besides confrontations btwn police 'n crminals, rival gangs regularly fight amongst themselves...that's when the most bystanders get hit, as they don't care who they kill. The fact far more criminals die is because the police are trained.
Never seen any human rights activists visit the families of cops killed while on duty, or off duty.
It's only natural that when crime subsides, as a result of “increasing wealth and education”, the clamour for the death penalty does too...Brazil is not there yet.
“What about more minor criminals,.....”......If by “minor” criminals you mean petty thieves, who probably aren't armed with guns, their chance of survival if caught by the police, increases...but if they react, someone is going to die. Those that legitimately “don't intend to kill anyone” aren't likely to be killed either...but again, if they react, the police will shoot.
Death squads, as in the past, are going out of fashion....which does not exclude cops and/or ex-cops taking the law into their own hands, to avenge fallen colleagues.
You're right, I don't care when criminals, hardened or still young (crime apprentices), are killed. Better off w/o them.
“How are police meant to avoid escalating violence if they are being attacked, under heavy gunfire ?”
Mar 14th, 2019 - 11:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I presume the police plan their operations to give themselves as much of an advantage as possible. Otherwise there would be a lot more of them killed. Once the shooting has started, there's not much they can do, but before that point they can it less likely. If they make sure the criminals are surrounded and cannot escape, and give them time to realise it and think rationally rather than panicking... sometimes there is nothing to do but shoot, but not every time.
And with the petty thieves, they need to avoid rushing in and give themselves time to assess the situation. That sounds more similar to the trigger happy American cops, who are trained to shoot first and ask questions later.
You say you don't care about criminals being killed. Would you like to see the Militias lined up and shot? How about that white collar criminal who lived in your condo?
And does that include the 8 year old street children that Think mentioned?
@Jack Bauer / @DemonTree
Mar 15th, 2019 - 11:03 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “How police are meant to avoid escalating violence if they are being attacked, under heavy gunfire?”
If it's not happening so far; very soon:
- they [Govt. Forces & Crooks] will be interchangeable
- Only one difference separates them - one is in uniform and the other isn't [or wouldn't want to be]!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i6xlR09UW2c/TYZFt32tXkI/AAAAAAAAAAs/pDTdHih7Pz8/s400/cor5.JPG
DT
Mar 15th, 2019 - 02:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Exactly....you ”presume the police (can) plan their operations to give themselves as much advantage as possible”...with 30 + armed confrontations p/ day, between gangs or with police, there isn't much time to 'plan' operations....sh*it can happen in a moment, requiring immediate police presence...or even when there IS time to 'plan', they never know what to expect when they go into a 'favela' after drug traffickers. It's not like they can monitor one or two specific places where the criminals meet regularly, 'n plan an orderly (invasion) operation, at some easily accessible urban location.
How do you 'surround' criminals in a 'favela' ? the moment the police appear at the bottom of the favela, guards on duty 24 hrs/day, fire warning shots...makes arriving suddenly 'n stealthily, impossible.
“...they need to avoid rushing in 'n give themselves time to assess the situation”...easier said than done - when they arrive at the supposed location, they don't know what they'll find....perhaps only an idiot with a knife, or in Brazil, with a sawn-off shotgun ? If upon arrival, the cops are expected to stand down until they get shot at, and keep on assessing how best to capture the criminals alive, more cops would be killed...
It's really wierd to see a guy like you look for any reason, no matter how far out of reality, to justify protecting the lives of criminals, while you believe it's ok for cops to get killed....just shows that you have absolutely no idea what really goes on down here.
But it's understandable, considering your safe environment.
“Would you like to see the Militias lined up and shot?” why not ? what good do they contribute to society ? drugs, deaths, crime ?
As to the WCC who lived in my Condo, 10 yrs in prison, an enormous fine - to leave him broke - would be ok.
Stink's 8 kiddies weren't 8 yrs old...rather, 11, 13, 14, 14, 17,17, 18, 19. All well-initiated in crime, carrying knives, not innocent, harmless kids. Might deserve a 2nd chance..
@Jack Bauer / @DemonTree
Mar 15th, 2019 - 04:14 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe, we are a bit far from the reality - the Crime-Syndicate orders the politicians around who are nose-deep in crime & are hand-in-gloves with the Drugs + Arms Dealers & to make it worse; the operations such as Car-Wash, etc. are being systematically washed down the drain; as expected and predicted.
THAT's why, as always suspected; the Interviews, Investigations, Trials, news, etc. are nothing but a part of ONE BIG FARCE!
Hence, as mentioned, if it hasn't happened so far; very soon:
- the Govt. Forces & Crooks are +/- interchangeable
- Only one difference separates them - one is in uniform and the other isn't [or wouldn't want to be]!
ALSO:
It's anybody's guess that Brazil will be fortunate to have either a religious leader [clergy/bishop/etc] or a criminal [hard-boiled] as a president or maybe he could also be a religious leader AND a criminal rolled into one President.
“It's really wierd to see a guy like you look for any reason, no matter how far out of reality, to justify protecting the lives of criminals, while you believe it's ok for cops to get killed”
Mar 15th, 2019 - 07:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0That's your interpretation. The cops in Brazil kill 5000 a year, but the violence keeps on rising. Not much use shooting first when so many are killed off duty. I don't think it's okay for cops to die, I think they would be safer too if Brazil tried different methods of dealing with crime.
The UK wasn't always so safe. For decades there was a virtual civil war going on in NI. And our army and police did some pretty goddamn awful things - internment without trial, torture, shooting unarmed protesters. Not only wrong in themselves, but these heavy-handed methods made the violence worse, not better.
Trying to police some area where you don't have the support of the population just doesn't work, no matter how good your training and how big your guns.
Why not shoot the WCC too? Because he wasn't violent? What did happen to him?
As for the kids, there's been more than 8 killed by death squads over the years. I bet some were younger, and didn't even have a knife to defend themselves against a bunch of men with guns.
REF: “Mexican border wall”:
Mar 16th, 2019 - 10:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0It's heartwarmingly reassuring to know that at least the U.S. isn't alone, in electing an A-Hole for a president!
https://en.mercopress.com/2019/03/16/mexican-border-wall-trump-proudly-signs-veto-to-secure-emergency-funds
DT
Mar 16th, 2019 - 07:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Yes, it is my interpretation....based on your consistent defence of criminals - ex : ”after all, they can't be as bad as you (JB) make them to be“ - and your criticism of police killing them - without fully comprehending what they are up against - as is clear by your constant questioning on why don't they ”do it this way, or that way....as in the UK“ ?
You simply insist ”The cops in Brazil kill 5000 a year”, without knowing in what circumstances (in armed confrontations, or as you like to believe, after surrendering)....last year, according to official stats, 367 cops were killed on duty. Too low for you ?
“....but the violence keeps on rising”....just shows that the criminal organizations are resilient and there is no lack of manpower to replace the killed or imprisoned. I'm not joking, that's the stark reality.
Do you think that criminal organizations making hundreds of millions per year are just going to disarm themselves 'n surrender ?
You need to understand, once 'n for all, that the social structure in the UK is light years ahead of Brazil, 'n the methods used to curb crime in the UK will not work In Brazil...
Right, the “UK wasn't always so safe”....and I'm sure that the methods used when it wasn't, wouldn't be accepted today....but were necessary...to reach where you are today. No ?
“Why not shoot the WCC too? Because he wasn't violent?” exactly, not violent ...a good reason to just put him in jail....don't know what happened to him, but if the police did, or tried to arrest him, it's unlikely he resorted to armed resistance.
Kids of 10 or less are the exception in the gangs of street kids.....most are not poor, undernourished kids just looking for a meal, they are assaulting people on the street, burglarizing houses, killing when necessary.....and becoming more dangerous by the day.
When /if they attract the attention of ex-cops/cops, and run the risk of getting killed, why don't they change their ways ? You can't understand that, can you ?
“I'm sure that the methods used when it wasn't, wouldn't be accepted today....but were necessary...to reach where you are today. No ?”
Mar 16th, 2019 - 08:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No. This wasn't ancient history, it was the 70s. Those methods are still used today (Guantanamo bay, 'enhanced interrogation' etc). But they did NOT reduce the violence, they made it worse. The violence continued right up until the Good Friday agreement ended it (mostly).
The agreement is not applicable to Brazil, but the (lack of) effectiveness of draconian policing is. How can it possibly work, when as you say “there is no lack of manpower to replace the killed or imprisoned”? Fixing the social problems that cause people to turn to crime is what would work. Failing that, more funding for the civil police to solve cases would probably be effective. The sureness of a punishment is far more important than its severity when it comes to deterring crime, but in Brazil most murders go unsolved.
“367 cops were killed on duty. Too low for you ?”
Far too high, but I think draconian policing makes it worse, not better.
”after all, they can't be as bad as you (JB) make them to be“
When did I say that? Context?
“When /if they attract the attention of ex-cops/cops, and run the risk of getting killed, why don't they change their ways ?”
Probably because they don't know anything different. Why do you think?
Re your condo criminal, what happens to white collar criminals in jail? And what would happen to Milicia members, like the ex-cops arrested for killing Marielle Franco?
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