MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Trump and the “Trump of the tropics” exchange conservative praise
United States president Donald Trump and Brazil’s new leader Jair Bolsonaro forged a bond over their shared brand of conservative and populist politics on Tuesday, with Trump pledging to give more U.S. support to Brazil’s global ambitions. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesMeeting of the minds [of a lack of it]
Mar 21st, 2019 - 09:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/charges/duke.jpg
“The vast majority of potential immigrants do not have good intentions. They do not intend to do the best or do good to the U.S. people.”
Mar 21st, 2019 - 11:00 am - Link - Report abuse 0WTF? I wonder if that reflects his real opinion of the average Brazilian?
DemonTree
Mar 22nd, 2019 - 07:50 am - Link - Report abuse 0“The vast majority of potential immigrants do not have good intentions. They do not intend to do the best or do good to the U.S. people.”
Maybe, they can make it easier entering into the US. Afterall; there IS a shortage of immigrants!
REF: My reply to @bushpilot
https://en.mercopress.com/2019/03/16/mexican-border-wall-trump-proudly-signs-veto-to-secure-emergency-funds#comments
B is not known for being particularly eloquent when speaking in public, and he corrected himself on that unfortunate comment on immigrants.....but I suppose we'll be hearing about it for the next 4 years. Has the press nothing else more productive to report ? May not be fake but it is useless ...
Mar 22nd, 2019 - 06:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0As to “autocratic” his ” views, really ?? Is he not allowed to disagree with those who support gender identity policy and fake news ? so we can presume that his critics in Brazil are those who do (support such crap).....and what gives them the divine right to decide what is right and wrong ? While they have the right to their opinions, they don't have the right to shove their views down people's throats.
Heh, and he's only had 30 years to practice public speaking. B's comment gives the impression he was trying to suck up to Trump, either not thinking or not caring what it said about his own people. I mean, damn; I know enough people personally who went to work in America. Mostly because they could earn more money there, and isn't that the same reason as the great majority of would-be immigrants? My partner's father emigrated to America and is now a US citizen. Do T and B think he had bad intentions? Or is that only immigrants from Latin America?
Mar 22nd, 2019 - 10:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0And Bolsonaro claims the US is against gender identity, political correctness and fake news? They invented all those things! Where does he think Brazilians got the idea from?
“I suppose we'll be hearing about it for the next 4 years”
Don't be so pessimistic: as long as he keeps making new gaffes, you won't have to. ;)
DT
Mar 23rd, 2019 - 08:33 pm - Link - Report abuse 0You are either born with the gift (of speaking publicly), or not....he probably WAS trying to suck up to Trump....wouldn't you if you believed that by praising the leader of the world's largest economy it would soften him up and make future negotiations - on whatever matter - easier...or perhaps you think he should've told Trump to his face to back off with his import duties on Brazilian steel, and he 'had to' lift all restrictions on Brazilian beef, immediately ? ...all in Brazil's “interest”...
..there again, rgdng immigrants, his lack of eloquence is what probably led him to be unhappy in his comments, but I don't for a second believe it's what he meant....the type of immigrants both had in mind was probably that of those who try to cross the border illegally....not liberal or qualified professionals looking for an 'even better' life...there is a great difference between useful /productive immigrants, and those who are just looking for a handout.
Am not saying the “Brazilians” who are sneaking in are looking for a handout (as quite a few abandoned Brazil due to a lack of better prospects), but there are thousands of illegal Brazilians there....but whatever the category, they should try to get in LEGALLY. According to one stat I found, there are approx 400,000 Brzlns in the US, 1/4 ilegal.
I know all those things were invented in the US, but Bolsonaro is in agreement with Trump's personal view on those matters, as they are his too, and while he may not be in favour of them, he isn't going to take any measures against any of them except probably fake news /lies. He is under no obligation to like them.... far less promote them.
Pessimistic ? let's see how long it takes before the press gets serious, and stops reporting things which do not benefit Brazil and simply embarass it as a country.
But since you like B's gaffes, look up Dilma's....they would fill a 1,000 page book.
And B would sound like he had an IQ of 200 compared to her...
”You are either born with the gift (of speaking publicly), or not“
Mar 23rd, 2019 - 10:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0No doubt some people have more of a talent for it, but it's something that can be learned and improved on, like any skill. Anyway, I'm sure B was trying to suck up to Trump, he just needs to make it less obvious. Our leaders tend to suck up to America and sometimes it's downright embarrassing.
Re immigrants, funny that looking for a higher salary, when you already have a good job and prospects in your home country, is fine, but moving from a country with no decent job prospects or suffering high violence makes you a bad person. The real objections to immigrants seem to be that they speak a different language, have a different culture, and undercut salaries by working for cheap. Which are all valid points, but at least be honest about it, rather than claiming they are all criminals.
Saying it's bad because it's illegal is backwards. If they didn't consider immigration of 'those people' bad, it wouldn't be illegal in the first place. There's over 600,000 British immigrants in the US, and probably the great majority are legal, but Americans don't care if British immigrants overstay their visas and work illegally. As long as you're English speaking, middle class and white, they have no objection.
”Bolsonaro is in agreement with Trump's personal view on those matters“
Which is true, but Bolsonaro's view is not Brazil's view, and Trump's view is certainly not America's. I reckon most Americans agree on their constitution, but not much else. I hope B's measures against fake news include not spreading it himself, but I won't hope my breath. If he really agrees with Trump, then by 'fake news' he means anything bad for his image, whether true or not.
”since you like B's gaffes, look up Dilma's”
Like how easy it is to store wind? Well, she did work in Congress... Did Lula also make gaffes, or did he have the gift for public speaking?
REF: ”Trump and the “Trump of the tropics”:
Mar 24th, 2019 - 11:35 am - Link - Report abuse +1At least ONE of the Trumps is on his way to the prison!
DT
Mar 24th, 2019 - 05:36 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Never thought B was a 'great' speaker, but maybe he doesn't think his skills need improving. Given time, and with more experience in the chair, he should be able to better 'dose' his praise and criticism, in other words, learn to be more diplomatic.
Re immigrants, want 1st world country REALLY WANTS to let in thousands of totally unqualified people, who probably (even medium to long term) bring bigger burden than reward ? AFAIC, it has nothing to do with being a good or a bad person, as they are found in all social classes, although the few 'bad' immigrants from a certain region taint the image of the rest. But if the law says 'sneaking in' is ilegal, and you don't agree with it, change the law....simple...don't just disregard it. I would know anything about the Brits who overstayed their welcome in the US, but I would think that because they are more likely to productive and to keep a low profile, they are less likely to be discovered/deported.
“...but Bolsonaro's view is not Brazil's view,”....I'm sorry, but it is. Those fed up with the PT and the left, wanted change, so the majority elected him....you say it's not “Brazil's” view based on the leftist MSM reports....it is not “their” view on Brazil, as they have become accustomed to the socialistic, populist approach to everything, adopted by the PT over 14 years...and they are sore at the sudden change, which can be basically translated into either work, or fade away into oblivion. But you can believe what you want, even not being here to be able to grasp what the “people” feel....the press is expressing what IT feels.
'Storing wind' is one of the many....her problem is that her brain is light years behind her mouth...she started with a thought 'n half-way through simply forget what her point was meant to be, and she rambles off into sensless phrases....but very funny. If she decides to become a stand-up comedienne, she could just be herself, 'n wouldn't have to prepare her shows...Lula also made his.
More likely is that B doesn't think he needs to be more diplomatic. His career up to this point was based on saying controversial shit, and although he did repudiate some of the more extreme things he's said in the past, his presidential campaign wasn't much different.
Mar 24th, 2019 - 08:46 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“want 1st world country REALLY WANTS to let in thousands of totally unqualified people”
None of them. Some have in the past, but only when they were desperate for manpower. I agree it has nothing to do with good or bad people, it's the sheer number that makes it a problem. At least the legal, mostly highly qualified, immigrants add a lot to the economy, whereas there are plenty of unqualified Americans already.
But for the people sneaking in, changing the law is impossible. They don't get to vote on another country's laws. I agree that doesn't make illegal immigration okay though, just understandable.
As for Brits overstaying visas, first there aren't too many of them, second if they got a visa in the first place they are probably well qualified, and third they fit in well so Americans are more likely to sympathise. Wouldn't stop them getting deported if caught, though.
Re Brazil's view, what I mean is that each country has some values that nearly everyone shares. Eg for America: democracy, freedom, self-reliance, 'motherhood and apple pie'. But being for or against political correctness is not one of them; there is no 'American view' on it, just a bunch of people who disagree (loudly). And I think it's the same for Brazil. The fact they elected B doesn't mean everyone shares his views, same as when they elected Lula it didn't mean everyone supported 'gender identity' or socialism. What would you say the ideas/values that most characterise Brasil are?
Dilma wasn't a natural leader, she was elected due to Lula's support, so maybe not surprising she was bad at speeches. I'd expect Lula to be better, given he managed to get himself elected, and was extremely popular while in office.
DT
Mar 24th, 2019 - 09:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“More likely B doesn't think he needs to be more diplomatic”...Ok, perhaps. Regardless of his faults, he is a million times better than Haddad 'n the PT shit.
“But for the people sneaking in, changing law is impossible. They don't get to vote on another country's laws. Agree that doesn't make illegal immigration okay though, just understandable”
Well, giving ilegal immigrants the right to vote is the height of stupidity. Ok, “understandable” but still wrong.
A Brit who is better qualified than most should know better than to try to disappear in to the crowds, and if caught, too bad. They know the risks.
Ok, without a vote on who likes/dislikes political correctness, it'd be difficult to determine how it is regarded here, but the fact that most people stood behind Bolsonaro, is significant.
Anyway, I don't think that the population on the “whole”, is educated enough to be actually aware of its subtleties.....they simply react to what little they know of the law, for ex., explicit racism is ilegal etc...but many, in their ignorance resort to accusing people of racism even when the matter has nothing to do with race....it just sounds good to them ; Enough people embraced his beliefs, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten in. Perhaps in politically correct language, “caixa 2” isn't corruption ?
When Lula was elected, 'gender-identity' was inexistent here.....the notion that people are born without a determined sex, and decide what they are later on, is nuts.
Lula was elected because he “promised” change...'n the PT lost in Oct 2018 because the “promised” change hadn't happened.
I'd say, on the whole, Brazilians are conservative....traditionalists, even though they probably don't unstand it too well.
Something I laugh about - altho it's no laughing matter - is when people complain about the shitty public transport (buses) and when interviewd after arriving late for work, they proudly claim “it's 'humiliating' ”(?)
Lula chose D because he could manipulate her.
Wasn't the biggest reason for B's election the corruption scandal? The PT were in it up to their necks, the other major parties too, but B was never in government and probably not involved. I can believe Brazilians are conservative in some ways - not including carnival - but there are movements in favour of all those things, even if it doesn't compare to America.
Mar 25th, 2019 - 12:25 am - Link - Report abuse 0“many, in their ignorance resort to accusing people of racism even when the matter has nothing to do with race”
That's common enough, especially when some other kind of prejudice is involved that isn't so clearly defined, but sometimes people are just trying it on.
“the notion that people are born without a determined sex, and decide what they are later on, is nuts.”
Some really are, but that's not generally what people are talking about. I know several transexuals, but I still don't really understand it.
“the PT lost in Oct 2018 because the “promised” change hadn't happened.”
Change happened, but then the economy collapsed and the judges started to excavate the corruption iceberg. Those seem to be the main reasons the PT got voted out.
And I don't understand the bus thing. Why do they say it's humiliating, or why shouldn't they?
FROM: Bloomberg:
Mar 25th, 2019 - 01:18 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: Bolsonaro’s U.S. Trip Was a Globalist’s Dream
“To gauge by the media storm back home, Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro’s visit to the United States this week fell somewhere between a debacle and a joke”:
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-22/bolsonaro-s-trump-visit-boosts-free-trade-and-multilateralism
DT
Mar 25th, 2019 - 04:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The PT started losing credibility in 2013....the L J exposed the rot, 'n long before Lula was imprisoned, April 2018. It would be naive to say B was not favoured by it....but so what, so would any other candidate who might have reached the 2nd round with Haddad. What matters is that people finally saw the PT for what it was.
Brazilians are conservatives when it's about their families, imposing (what they consider) “decent” limits, but are hypocrites when you see how liberal they are in treating others.
They are false puritans. Ex: a father would be shocked to see his daughter dancing naked in Carnival, but loves to see other's daughters naked.
The gender-identity stuff is being pushed in an unnatural manner....if a person, at 15, feels he or she does not fit in with the sex declared at birth, then by all means, grow tits, cut yr dick off, who cares ? Just don't promote another sex as if it were exactly the same as male/female. Go about it discretely, as those who are content to be males/females.
I know several homosexuals (I took one on, knowing his preference, but what mattered was his professional capacity), couples - they don't flaunt it in public, 'n lead normal lives.
“Change happened, but then the economy collapsed and the judges started to excavate the corruption iceberg”
You know what I mean.....the “promised” changes did not happen, and what changed was generally, for worse. An example of people not realizing that promised changes are not occurring, even when the shit has hit the fan, is VZ....they re-elected Chavez, they re-elected Maduro, despite the fact that each time they were worse off. True that they were extremely manipulated, but the outcome depends on how the process starts.
To be humiliated for ex., is when when someone purposely embarrasses you...having to wait two hours for a bus is not humiliating, it's just extremely annoying. The ignorant hear a word they think is 'chic', don't understand its meaning, but use it all the same.
“It would be naive to say B was not favoured by it....but so what, so would any other candidate...”
Mar 25th, 2019 - 09:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I think what really favoured B is that as well as the PT, people saw the other major leaders and parties as involved in the corruption, and rejected all the 'mainstream' candidates. As someone less well known, but with experience in politics, B fit the bill. Besides that, the recession and reaction against the PT naturally made people want to try different policies
Would you ever have guessed back in 2013 that B would be President now?
“Brazilians are conservatives... but are hypocrites”
I hate that attitude. If you expect others to behave a certain way, the least you can do is live up to it yourself. Too often the most moralistic are the worst-behaved in private.
“Go about it discretely, as those who are content to be males/females.”
That's not so easy for transsexuals, though. After practice, and hormones, and sometimes operations, they might pass convincingly as the sex they feel they are. In the beginning,
they generally end up looking (and sounding) somewhere in between, and that attracts unwanted attention. In more conservative societies people tend to be offended by their mere existence. At least if you're gay it's fairly easy to hide, if necessary.
“The ignorant hear a word they think is 'chic', don't understand its meaning, but use it all the same.”
Ah, that makes sense now. But surely 'humiliate' isn't an obscure word? It's weird.
As for Vz, I think previous governments must share some of the blame, since they did so little for the population that even with the writing on the wall, voters preferred to stick with Maduro. It's very unfortunate.
@DT / @Jack Bauer
Mar 26th, 2019 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Brazilians are conservatives... but are hypocrites”
PROOF OF THE [Brazilian] PUDDING:
https://en.mercopress.com/2019/03/26/brazilian-appeals-court-releases-ex-president-michel-temer-insufficient-evidence-for-a-preventive-jailing
DT
Mar 26th, 2019 - 01:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0What definitely favoured Bolsonaro is what people disliked 'n were referring to as “OLD politics”...the exchange of “favors” to get things done, at the expense of the people. The mainstream candidates, all associated with the old political system went losing ground.
When Haddad was “finally” endorsed by Lula, his campaign was still in the doldrums 'n wasn't taking off....the traditional PT promises weren't having any effect, so Haddad adopted Bolsonaro's main points, 'n took them even further...as if by increasing the dosage would be a sure win....but his move was too obvious.
In 2013 no one could have known B would be a candidate, far less win.
“Conservatism v. hypocrisy” : it boils down to treating others as you'd have them treat you...but most Brazilians 'miss' the subtlety of such a noble attitude.
Regarding transexuals, I'm not concerned with their appearance, or whether they attract attention because of it....all I'm saying is, despite all that, no need to go on an eternal campaign of promoting the 3rd sex... If people ignored their existence - as they ignore that of most - and they (trans) went about their daily chores like an ordinary person, perhaps people would be prepared to live 'n let live.
Just a thought : in the old days, laws stated what you couldn't do...today, people try to pass laws saying what you can do.....I don't think that's the spirit of the law.
Of course the word “humiliate” isn't obscure, but few in the lower social classes seem to know the difference between it and “annoy”...it's funny to hear it being used wrongly.
Ok, VZ goverment policies were heading for disaster even before Chavez, but it could still have been fixed with a simple, honest government....it did not need a not too well educated, Lieutenant-Colonel to step in and make things worse....the moment a government's (apparent) strength is based on populism, it's just a matter of time before things go south.
To make a mistake is normal, to insist on it is stupid
@Jack Bauer
Mar 26th, 2019 - 08:28 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “it could still have been fixed with a simple, honest government”:
Simple+Honest Govt? In the Americas? :o))))
“what people disliked 'n were referring to as “OLD politics””
Mar 26th, 2019 - 10:13 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Agreed. B winning was kind of an upset, but it's happening all over the world as people are dissatisfied with their lives and try to change things. As long as things were generally improving, voters were happy to stick with the status quo, electing mainstream parties with small differences. But in the developed countries, things are no longer improving for the majority, something that has more frequently been the case in Latin America. It seems that instead of Latin America becoming more like the US and Europe, the reverse is happening.
“most Brazilians 'miss' the subtlety of such a noble attitude.”
I guess they don't care, and are not called out on it. Hypocrisy seems to come naturally to humans, unfortunately.
“Regarding transexuals, I'm not concerned with their appearance, or whether they attract attention because of it.”
You'd be concerned if it was you getting stared at, insulted or even beaten up on the street. Hence the campaigning. But I've never heard of promoting a third sex. That would seem to be the opposite of their goal of being accepted as one of the usual two.
And not sure what you mean by laws saying what you can do. Can you give some examples?
“it's funny to hear it being used wrongly.”
Apart from slang, which changes with each generation, most people here misuse 'literally' all the time. There's others, but that is by far the most common. What I'd like to know is why Americans call the main course an 'Entrée'. It makes no sense!
My impression of Vz before Chavez is that is was pretty well off due to the oil, but the people who were rich and in power were trying to keep it all to themselves, not doing anything to help the country. Hence Chavez's election, and his popularity. If earlier governments had tried to develop the country in a more sustainable way, showing that there are alternatives to socialism, things could have been very different.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
Mar 27th, 2019 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“And B would sound like he had an IQ of 200 compared to her...” You must have missed his gaff on you tube where he stated “drown Syndrome”. Which, with head down the VP tersely said “Down”.
I heard that B makes Trump sound like a Rhodes scholar. Whereas, she did partake in university training
@DemonTree
Mar 28th, 2019 - 01:26 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “most Brazilians 'miss' the subtlety of such a noble attitude”
subtlety of noble attitude:
https://www.otempo.com.br/image/contentid/policy:1.2154618:1553596239/CHARGE%20O%20TEMPO.JPG?f=3x2&q=0.6&w=620&$p$f$q$w=904c3fd
Down Syndrome, Bolsonaro
Mar 28th, 2019 - 06:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfWiPehOaxA
DT
Mar 28th, 2019 - 09:19 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“As long as things were generally improving, voters were happy to stick with the status quo, electing mainstream parties with small differences”.
Yeah, in the more developed countries.....where they don't have 32 political parties...where the politicians actually know what they were elected for...here, with parties with enormous differences, fragmentation occurs and makes it virtually impossible to imagine them uniting for the common good of Brazil.
That is why “ It seems that instead of Latin America becoming more like the US & Europe, the reverse is happening”.
Me : “Regarding transexuals, I'm not concerned etc....”
You :“You'd be concerned if it was you getting stared at, insulted or even beaten up on the street. Hence the campaigning. But I've never heard of promoting a third sex”.
Well then, people should be more like me....but on the other hand, the transexuals go to great extreme to look 'n act differently, which inevitable attracts undesired attention...If you were a Brit in WWII who'd just escaped from a German prison camp, would you drive on the left side of the road ?
Re the 3rd sex (other than M/F) what do you think the gender-ID shit is all about ? And here there are movements which try to get special laws passed (through “affirmative actions” by the State) which address their differences, giving them special status in the work place.. ...why can't they simply wear normal (M/F) clothes, act like normal people in public if they don't want to attract attention ? They are not content to be seen as either of the 'usual two'.
I couldn't give a damn, but seems they bring a lot of their misfortunes upon themselves.
Since we're on the subject, for ex., laws which regulate social behaviour used to say Men could not enter Lady's toilets and v.v., and look at Obama's attempt to legalize transgenders using either ...i.e., “we can....”. It's more of a “feeling” that certain groups are using political correctness to grant themselves special status.
“here, with parties with enormous differences, fragmentation occurs and makes it virtually impossible to imagine them uniting for the common good of Brazil.”
Mar 28th, 2019 - 10:59 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seems to be exactly what's happening here. Our parliament voted on 8 options for Brexit yesterday and not one had a majority. I swear none of them could find their arse with both hands and a GPS. Tomorrow they vote on May's deal for a third time, despite having rejected it by large majorities twice already. Why is holding a new referendum on an issue that was split 51.9-48.1 unacceptable, but voting yet again on May's deal is fine?
“Well then, people should be more like me”
Yes, but that's up to them. You can't force other people to be tolerant, or to mind their own business. The transsexuals I know don't do anything to draw attention, they try and avoid it because it's unpleasant and sometimes dangerous, but blending in completely is impossible. If I'd just escaped from a German prison camp in WWII, I'd try not to be conspicuous, but I still wouldn't speak German or know all the customs, so I'd probably give myself away quickly.
“Re the 3rd sex”
Is that people who say they're not men or women but something else? Can't say I've encountered anyone like that in real life. What special status do they want in the work place?
As for the toilets, what do you expect people to do, pee in the street? They have to use one or the other, and most people would use common sense. Insisting on following birth certificates is going to have very unfortunate results when it doesn't match appearance.
And on that subject, we have a stupid fight going on over the toilets in my office. There are only two, in separate rooms so both are unisex. But now another team is moving in with us, and they are insisting on labelling them male and female, even though they are single-occupancy and it will actually be illegal according to health and safety regulations to have only one toilet for that many men. What's the point?
Correction here is the right URL
Mar 29th, 2019 - 10:20 am - Link - Report abuse 0Down Syndrome, Bolsonaro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPfHROU3YoY
DT
Mar 29th, 2019 - 07:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Me : “Well then, people should be more like me”
You : “Yes, but that's up to them. You can't force other people to be tolerant, or to mind their own business”
Agree, but I can't control what others think. Ok, but if transexuals attract attention even if involuntarily, it's because they are doing 'something' to attract it.....if they were discrete in public who'd notice them ? I think that blending in, or not, is more a mental thing than anything else....if gays can do it, why not transexuals ?
Regarding the 3rd sex, or probably no sex at all (?) - until they decide later on in life - I never dug deep into the matter because I think it's absurd, but there are parents who believe in it :
“www.nbcnews.com/.../boy-or-girl-parents-raising-theybies-...”......I think by denying that a kid is male of female, at birth, is just going to create confusion in their heads...at what age do kids start to feel “different” (if they do) to their given sex at birth ? why not follow birth certificates and later, if it be the case, let them adapt to their own reality.
Companies can face the dilemma of having separate toilets, the possibility of their (over) sensitivity to everything that goes on around them, making work colleagues potentially uncomfortable. You say it's difficult to blend in - is it because they don't accept being either of the usual two ? and make a point of being neither ? If a grown person has assumed their interior identity in full, what's the big problem ?....
As I said, I've taken on and worked alongside gays, but to all effects they acted normally, under no duress. What they did on their own time is their business.
With regards to your office toilets, I'd say having Men's and Ladies toilets is what I consider normal, and if women are obliged to use the same toilet as men, what about your male colleagues who piss all over the floor ? If the offices no longer provide the necessary hygiene conditions and privacy, I'd say it's time to move office.
@Jack Bauer
Mar 29th, 2019 - 10:24 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “having Men's & Ladies toilets is what I consider normal”:
Can't those who don't, use toilets marked as Rest/Others?
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