MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Brazilian military caution Bolsonaro on the extreme views of the influential “Trotsky of the right”
The growing differences between members of the military and the so-called ideological faction of Brazil's Jair Bolsonaro’s government prompted a reaction from a retired Army High Commander--Eduardo Villas Bôas—who considers the president to be absent in the dispute and wants to limit what he sees as institutional disrespect. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesWow. Sounds like a pretty serious disagreement in the top ranks, and the army are the voice of moderation...
May 08th, 2019 - 10:05 am - Link - Report abuse 0I have been accompanying this ongoing disagreement between allies, for several weeks now....Looks like it's Olavo de Carvalho and Bolsonaro's two outspoken sons, against the Generals in government....and Bolsonaro in between.
May 08th, 2019 - 08:43 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Seems that OC, who defines himself as extreme right - whom I 'used to' think was a relatively well-intentioned advisor, and whom is now being too damned radical - believes that B and the other ex-members of the military in govt, aren't enough to the right.....B's two sons support OC, while the generals would like to see the three of them shut up, as everytime one of them opens their mouth, the shit lands on the president.
The Generals have apparently decided to not encourage this ridiculous battle being fought on social networks (mainly twitter) and have said they will not allow themselves to get further entangled in it......which, if it continues, will only harm the president.
While Bolsonaro, who would like to see both sides back down, the military believe he should tell his sons and OC to not interfere.
But what has become evident, is that the military, once again, have shown that they are the moderating power.
I'm slightly amazed B has managed to find an adviser who's not only too far right for the military, but who one of them even described as equivalent to Trotsky. But this time I agree. Bolsonaro should tell OC and his sons to stop interfering. I read up about OC, and according to Wikipedia he has all kinds of nutty ideas, just the sort of person you want advising a president... NOT.
May 08th, 2019 - 09:30 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Have a look what he says about Newton, this is what happens when philosophers deal with subjects they don't fully understand:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190102193451/http://www.olavodecarvalho.org/nas-origens-da-burrice-ocidental/
@DemonTree / @Jack Bauer
May 09th, 2019 - 09:59 am - Link - Report abuse 0Is the He-Man playing Retarded+Helpless Kid? If I was a Brazilian; I'd most definitely vote for Carvalho
d Olavo in the upcoming elections [maybe well before 2'022]!
https://www.rbsdirect.com.br/imagesrc/25222435.jpg?w=700
DT
May 09th, 2019 - 09:50 pm - Link - Report abuse 0OC's phylosophy sounds like useless drivel.
Re “B's sons aim.”
“Do people agree because no alternative?” yep…they become street vendors, provide hhold svcs, work in small business that can’t afford to get bogged down in payroll taxes, civil construction etc…only way to reduce it's to provide conditions for business to take ‘em on/register them. When I got my first job/moved out, I soon found out what shortage of money was.
“makes economics look simple ‘n intuitive”…Agree, yr explanation on quantum physics just confirms I made the right choice.
When growing up, my parents used to tell me, that if I wanted anything over the basics, I’d have to work ‘n pay for it myself.
We either walked or cycled 1 mile to school. Back then, with no electronic technology available, I used to go to friend’s houses, ride the bike, stay on at school ‘n practice sports.
Re AOC ‘n others, all you need to do is google their names…also get emails sent by friends, with links…such as : Tlaib & Omar Defend Palestine, Blame Israel, for Violence.
It’s not only Brasilwire’s exaggeration, not to say distortion, of the facts – posting videos ‘n photos of different events, but Gollum’s attempt to confuse people with his lies. The slimy beast forgets that I see all this crap on the news, usually more than once a day. As for the 2nd video - helicopter flying low over a favela - the shots heard could be fired by cops, yes, but also by criminals, on the ground…as has happened before, causing a helicopter to crash.
Re Witzel, pure bs. He said snipers would be authorized to take out gang members ostensibly carrying assault rifles in the streets.
B’s arms policy : ease the “possession” of handguns by honest citizens, after a check, not “carry”.
Re moro, blown out of proportion/highly exaggerated. If cops can justify being in a dangerous situation, fearing for their lives, they are authorized to shoot, but need to justify it…if not killed.
“These” cuts, fully justified…need + space.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
May 09th, 2019 - 10:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“but also by criminals, on the ground…as has happened before, causing a helicopter to crash. ... the shots heard could be fired by cops, yes, but also by criminals, on the ground… as has happened before, causing a helicopter to crash. ... snipers would be authorised to take out gang members ostensibly carrying assault rifles in the streets.” Where are these supposed weapons If what you claim is true, there are in fact none.
Moreover, you would shown a verifiable link, as the last occasion was “police helicopter crash, cause unknown”
By ASSOCIATED PRESS PUBLISHED: 13:27 BST, 14 January 2019
“a police operation which took place as local schools were getting out, that left 8 more residents dead. Photos taken on the scene show terrified school children running from the scene. Residents said all the deaths were caused by helicopter gunmen.
In all, 13 people have been killed by the Rio de Janeiro police in the last 72 hours, which represents the highest number of police killings in this amount of time the last 20 years – this in a state where police killed over 1000 civilians in 2017. Although specific data on victims has not been released yet, it is safe to assume, based on patterns of police killings in Rio de Janeiro, that most victims were Black.”
There must be a balance between protecting workers and not making the laws so onerous it encourages informal work. And the law has to be enforced, which I doubt happens much in Brazil.
May 09th, 2019 - 11:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Physics is a very cool subject, and unlike philosophy is definitely useful, but I wouldn't recommend a degree in it unless you're really interested.
I think your parents were right, giving kids everything they ask for isn't good for them. People worry more now, about traffic and paedophiles, though it's probably much safer than 50 years ago. I used to get the bus to school, or cycle sometimes in summer - cycling was faster. One of my friends went to a different secondary school and she used to go in a taxi. They were obliged to provide free transport and it wasn't worth sending a bus for so few kids.
Re Israel and Palestine, it's a complicated subject with lots of blame to go around. But I've seen people defend Israel and blame Palestine, without being accused of spreading hate.
In the second video you can see flashes from the helicopter during the firing. Regardless, it's an imprecise method, more suited to warfare then crime-fighting. Civilian casualties are a lot higher during a war, and it doesn't keep the police safe either, as you noted.
Is there a proper quote for what Witzel said about snipers?
From the article about B's arms decrees:
“...sports shooters, hunters and collectors would be allowed to travel with a weapon”
But “he has also spoken out in favor of allowing people to carry weapons on the streets, but that will require the support of Congress to change the law.”
Not 100% what the diff is, but guess you're right, it doesn't allow people to carry guns in the street - even if B would like to allow it.
As for cops shooting, they already have a remarkable body count with current laws. Why do they need even more latitude? The police are known to be infiltrated by gangs and criminal militias, and Moro wants to give them more impunity? I'm disappointed in him.
“Shortly after Wilson Witzel, a member of Jair Bolsonaro’s neofascist PSL party, surprised Brazil by coming out of nowhere to win last year’s Rio de Janeiro gubernatorial elections, he announced that he was going to encourage Rio police to use snipers to kill anyone “suspected of carrying a weapon”. When Amnesty International and human rights lawyers warned him that this is illegal he said, “I will personally defend them in court if necessary.”
May 10th, 2019 - 12:16 am - Link - Report abuse 0He(Wilson Witze) is not a normal person,” said Brazilian journalist Luis Nassif. “He has the instincts of an assassin. He will eventually be condemned by international courts for crimes against humanity, but until this happens there will be people dying on the streets at his hand.”
Bolsonaro’s Justice Minister Sergio Moro, who was clearly awarded his cabinet position in exchange for removing former President Lula from the elections last year, has announced a new anti-crime bill, which if passed, will enable police to shoot anyone who makes them “feel afraid”. If it is ratified in Congress, the genocide against Afro-Brazilian youth, already increasing in intensity in Rio de Janeiro, is expected to exacerbate nationally.
http://www.brasilwire.com/rj-governor-orders-helicopter-snipers-police-kill-13/
@JB
May 10th, 2019 - 02:22 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I replied to you about education on the story 'Hundreds march in Rio...'.
@Jack Bauer
May 10th, 2019 - 04:00 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “the military, once again, have shown that they are the moderating power”:
I heard that most of the Brazilians prefer to be robbed by the military rather than the more powerful militia!
Gollum,
May 10th, 2019 - 05:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Moreover, you would shown a verifiable link, as last occasion “police helicopter crash, cause unknown” …how about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ogifFKIjVA ? or can’t u understand Portuguese ?
Snipers killing anyone “suspected” of carrying a weapon ? total BS ! confirms your total inability to understand what you read….refers “specifically” to criminals carrying assault rifles in an ostensible manner, in the favelas, while keeping watch on police movement.
Listen Gollum, I’m fully aware of the crime /police problem in Rio, but what makes you think I care enough to argue with you ?
May I suggest you calm down, o'wise you’ll blow a gasket. Just fyi, Witzel belongs to the PSC, not PSL…idiot.
@DT
“..balance btwn protecting workers ‘n not making the laws so onerous it encourages informal work”..1st, altho agree labor laws are onerous, the current situation is more a result of the PT’s crisis than anything else; 2nd, many informal workers prefer informality…short-sighted, yes, but expected from people who ignore their future.
I enjoyed experiments in physics, but not interested enough to carry on with it.
“..probably much safer than 50 years ago”…can’t say, back then, wasn’t much info available on it.
Israel v. Palestine : when Hamas lobs 700 rockets on Israel, what do they expect ? a pat on the back ? twisting the facts in order to influence people, turn them against each other, afaic is spreading hate…against the Israelis. But think what you will.
Re Witzel, in an interview to the OESP, he said, quote “police who kill criminals carrying rifles, should not be held responsible, under any circumstances”, unquote.
Re B's arms decree, if you are hunter, how do you travel without your gun ? Don’t care what misinformation the press spreads, but he never said he was in favor of ”carrying guns in the street“…only ”possession”, at home, for self-defence. Anyway, Congress has to approve it. Not enough room here but Moro's being misquoted.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
May 10th, 2019 - 06:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Just fyi” I'm just the messenger unlike you I have provided a source. If what you claim was true you would have verified it. Just to remind you of your well deserved reputation as the biggest liar on this site.
http://en.
mercopress.com/2018/04/04/brazil-s-conundrum-army-chief-twits-good-citizens-repudiate-impunity-and-respect-the-constitution/comments#comment486481
http://en. mercopress.com/2017/07/12/brazil-former-president-lula-da-silva-found-guilty-of-corruption/comments#comment470714
http://en. mercopress.com/2017/07/20/ex-brazilian-president-assets-and-bank-accounts-frozen/comments#comment471145
http://en. mercopress.com/2018/03/20/lula-begins-tour-of-south-brazil-and-meets-mujica-but-it-was-a-bad-day-for-both-leaders/comments#comment485779
http://en. mercopress.com/2018/11/22/brazil-s-secret-dealings-to-contract-cuban-physicians-to-work-in-the-more-doctors-program/comments#comment495051
Where are these supposed weapons If what you claim is true, there are in fact none.
Idiot Gollum
May 10th, 2019 - 06:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I'm just the messenger”.....again using that weak excuse to justify your mistakes, lies and incapacity to find the facts on the internet ? If you buy the lie, you own it....idiot
I've already told you, but as you are a bit slow, I'll repeat it : the OESP (and 'O Globo') is a far more reliable source than your ridiculos leftie-site, brasilwire ...afraid of finding the truth if you consult a serious site ?
But getting back to your weak excuse / lie, first of all, I remember having seen the report on the attack against the police helicopter on TV, so no need to verify anything. I don't have Alzheimer's, as you obviously do.
Second, I sent you the link proving it....but seems you are unable to interpret what is being said, or shown in the youtube video....Th4, no point arguing with idiots.
And since you insist on seeing the weapons, google “traficantes portando fuzis nos morros”.
Once gain, you are proved wrong....idiot.
This is like taking candy from a kid....
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
May 11th, 2019 - 12:36 am - Link - Report abuse 0“I remember having seen the report on the attack against the police helicopter on TV,”
Your claimed video is a deliberate falsehood as its date shows it is not the current event but from “RJ TV - helicóptero da PM é derrubado por traficantes 17/10/2009”
So no guns have revealed, and seven people have been killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Eventually the authorities will lose, as the police cannot win when there is no community support. They have lost the battle for the hearts and minds, as the US lost South Viet Nam. As well as the poor innocent musician they assassinated in a car in front of his family.
@TH
May 11th, 2019 - 08:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0Reading comprehension for dummies:
“as has happened before, causing a helicopter to crash.”
Before = in the past. Not a current event, dummkopf.
@JB
“the current situation is more a result of the PT’s crisis than anything else”
Informal work has always been common in Brazil, hasn't it? Probably even more so in the past.
We had some cool stuff in Sixth Form physics: radioactive sources packed in lead, oscilloscopes and a water filled tray with a device to make waves, so we could see diffraction and reflection, interference patterns etc. Also we did an experiment with two speakers playing the same sound, hearing where in the room the sound waves reinforced each other and where they cancelled out. At uni there was a giant electromagnet in the basement and according to rumour a cleaner once went in to hoover the room and got sucked in and stuck to it. But since I did a joint degree I never did labs, which I kind of regret now.
Is it still safe for kids to walk or cycle to school in SP?
“when Hamas lobs 700 rockets on Israel, what do they expect ?”
They're at war and have been on and off since 1947. It's very much a case of one side does something and the other responds, usually with more violence. The West Bank is occupied and the Gaza strip basically under permanent siege, so it's not like Palestinians can just get on with their lives. But what facts are they twisting, and who are they trying to turn against who, in your opinion?
“if you are hunter, how do you travel without your gun ?”
That's partly why I was puzzled. They must've been able to do so before, so what does B's decree change? And how is 'travelling with' different to carrying? Perhaps it's having the gun unloaded and secured, while 'carrying' means it's ready to use? In some American states it's legal to openly carry loaded semi-automatic weapons in the street - Witzel's plan wouldn't work too well there. But more seriously, it sounds like a rule fit for a war zone, not crime fighting.
@DemonTree
May 11th, 2019 - 11:33 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “They're at war...............................in your opinion?”
From the different points of views and In spite of the facts about who is right/wrong; The Eternal Problem is relatively easy to solve, by:
- One State Solution
- Two States Solution
But on the other hand, in reality, this eternal problem can AND will never be solved - there's NO ONE to solve it!
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
May 11th, 2019 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0“as has happened before” means the same as what had occurred before. JB used it in context of they were fired upon.
Sorry, that your 'cuddle-chum' still exhibits the all classic symptoms of a psychopathic. “Inflated sense of self-worth, lying pathologically, conning others; being manipulative. Oh now I see your similarity, idiot.
”once more, one more time:
as has happened before”
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/once
@ :o))
May 11th, 2019 - 03:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure they're not going to solve it any time soon. The Palestinians don't even have one government they agree on, so there's no one who can sign a deal, it would be meaningless.
@The Liar
He said criminals shot at a helicopter before, causing it to crash. And that's exactly what the video says, so quit your whining.
@DemonTree
May 11th, 2019 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0True - meaningless destructive mentality - a way of life!
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
May 11th, 2019 - 06:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“He said criminals shot at a helicopter before, causing it to crash.”
No! He didn't he said specifically, “Shots heard could be fired by cops, yes, but also by criminals, on the ground … as has happened before, causing a helicopter to crash.” Remarkable ability I can hear the shots and they match perfectly the flashes from the 'chopper'
So I have proven that his words meant there was a aircraft downed at the time, which is not true.
So what your claim means is blown away. So who is doing the bitching? Not me since I've proved my claim, leaving just you two losers with egg on your faces.
All you've proven is that you are as pathetically unable to understand English as Portuguese. I've met slime moulds who are smarter and more charming than you.
May 11th, 2019 - 09:04 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
May 11th, 2019 - 09:20 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“you unable to understand English as Portuguese”
Unfortunately for you the Cambridge Dictionary proves otherwise.
”once more, one more time:
as has happened before”
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/once
Words written could be ambiguous, yes, or they could be deliberately misinterpreted by Terry the Dimwit, as has happened before, causing him to lie and slander other posters.
May 11th, 2019 - 09:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DT
May 11th, 2019 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Your right, Gollum's incapable of realizing what “as happened before” means...a previous event, in 2009 - date clearly visible in the video - when a helicopter was shot down by drug gangs, firing from the ground.
Even a 2 yr old would get it. It's like his interpretation of Mourão in Haiti.
No use trying to educate him...he is too stupid to learn. Neither is providing proof...it's way above his brain-grade. As for the guns, I think Gollum should spend some time in Rio - there are plenty of smelly sewers - 'n hopefully he'll catch a stray bullet from the weapons that don't exist.
Informality has always existed, but has only become a 'real' problem (due to lower tax revenue 'n pension contributions) in the last 20 years. In 1980, there were 14 formal workers for each pensioner, today there are 7, 'n in 2060, projections show 2,3 formal workers/ pensioner. The system will explode well b4...if not reformed..
“Is it still safe for kids to walk / cycle to school in SP?” No. Besides being prey to paedophiles, kidnapping, and robbers, they could easily get run over.
Sure they've been at war since 1947, but to lob rockets over the border, out of the blue, without any specific prior aggression, deserves a response...which side is it that has sworn to wipe the other off the face of the earth ?
Re Ilhan Omar/ Tlaib, if you're familiar with the facts b4 seeing “their” interpretation /account of them, you'll soon realize their intention is to distort them /throw people against each other. Too much to post on here, sorry.
Re arms decree - b4, you could NOT just transport your gun from A to B...you needed to get special permission from the police, for each movement....a pain in the neck.
“Travelling with” is for ex., taking yr gun, unloaded, fm the city to your country home...“carrying” is having it on you, loaded, at all times. I'm against “concealed carry”, as it's potentially too dangerous. As for Rio, it HAS become a war zone...negotiating has no effect.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
May 11th, 2019 - 11:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Words written could be ambiguous” not when the prestigious Cambridge Dictionary proves there is no ambiguity.
Jack Bauer aka Proof-less and Truth-less
“incapable of realising what as happened before means”, according to the Cambridge ”once more, one more time”
Hmm, so the choice is between a couple of self serving nobodies, and an interpretation from a top flight university publication.
Well, thats safe to conclude which is correct. On your bikes its another argument you have well and truly lost.
@JB
May 12th, 2019 - 08:38 am - Link - Report abuse 0Yup. His wilful stupidity and denial of reality still amazes me, it seems there are no depths he won't plumb.
Fractal wrongness is a great description of him:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness
“in 2060, projections show 2,3 formal workers/ pensioner”
These changes are mostly due to demographics, though. People living longer and lower birthrates than in the past. The PT didn't create the current pension system, they just failed to reform it.
Re kids, I'm sure the crime is worse in SP now, but I doubt the traffic is much worse than when I was growing up, and kids walked to school then. Ironically, I suppose far more walk to school in Brazil where it really is more dangerous, compared to the UK where so many are dropped off in cars by parents on the way to work.
“which side is it that has sworn to wipe the other off the face of the earth ?”
The Palestinians, or at least they swore to get them out of Israel. But which side has come closer to taking all of the land they used to share, leaving the other with less and less, and that they don't really control? During the first war, many Palestinians fled or were forced out of their homes and towns, and still aren't allowed back. And in the West Bank Israelis are still extending the settlements, taking ever more space from them.
As for the rocket attacks, there usually is something triggering them, but not always. AIUI, there are several different groups that set them off and they don't all respond to the same authority. That's why I said to :o)) that the Palestinians *can't* negotiate, because their governments, such as they are, would be unable to enforce any agreement on their own people to stop the violence.
Run out of space...
@Gollum
A dictionary by itself cannot understand anything, interpret any words, or form a conclusion. It is only useful with a human to read it. So yes, even a stupid person is more able than a prestigious university publication.
Just FORGET the “Trotsky of the right” + FORGET the military; now that the economy is [almost] B00MING:
May 12th, 2019 - 10:19 am - Link - Report abuse 0http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/charges/neylima.jpg
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
May 12th, 2019 - 12:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“A dictionary by itself cannot understand anything, ...interpret any words, or form a conclusion. It is only useful with a human to read it. So yes, even a stupid person is more able than a prestigious university publication.”
Thanks for the quote it's a keeper. So to conclude, it doesn't matter what facts refute your opinion. Your opinion is tops, how pathetically desperate you are.
@JB
May 12th, 2019 - 03:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(Ctnd.) Are Omar and Tlaib trying to persuade other Americans to support Palestinians/stop supporting Israelis? I think that's a legitimate aim for them; the generally more successful Israeli lobby tries to do the reverse. Trump's action in moving the US embassy to Jerusalem could be considered in the same light, as it was almost sure to lead to more violence. If they're telling lies to achieve it, that's another matter, but are they?
Re carrying vs transporting weapons, sounds like the difference is what I thought. Having to get permission from the police must be a pain, but allowing concealed carry in Brazil seems like a good way to get more people shot by the police. If you have a gun they'll assume you're a criminal, and even if you don't they don't know that and they'll be much jumpier, as in America where drivers have been shot for reaching for their licence.
@Gollum
I'm happy for you to quote me, just don't leave out words to change the meaning like you've done before.
DemonTree the slavish follower aka The Appendage
May 12th, 2019 - 05:10 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“just don't leave out words to change the meaning” Still breaking all the rules by asserting without proof just like JB.
”Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat (the burden of proof lies with who declares, not who denies) it.“
“An assertion is a statement offered as a conclusion without supporting evidence. since an argument is defined as a logical relationship between premise and conclusion, a simple assertion is not an argument.”
Ignoring the Burden of Proof http://learn.lexiconic.net/fallacies/index.htm
So like him you are revealed as a proven liar.
“Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy; States of Affairs; First published Tue Mar 27, 2012
Philosophers connect sentences with various items, such as thoughts, facts and states of affairs. Thoughts are either true or false in an absolute sense, never both or neither.”
plato. stanford.edu/entries/states-of-affairs/
DT
May 13th, 2019 - 01:08 am - Link - Report abuse 0“These changes are mostly due to demographics, though. People living longer 'n lower birthrates than in the past.” Yes. I'm not looking for a culprit, simply stating the facts.
“The PT didn't create the current pension system, they just failed to reform it”....Yes. IF they had, as promised, today, we'd be 15 years passed the hurdle. Theoretically.
Crime is worse in SP, 'n all over Brazil, but unfortunately the mass migration of the northeasterners, to the SEast, in the 70s, looking for jobs, contributed to spreading a culture, prevalent until then, only in the NEast. Might sound prejudiced, but it's a fact...one many people are unwilling to admit.
“The Palestinians, or at least they swore to get them out of Israel”.....Right. Also the Iranians...who finance terrorism. Correct me if wrong, but a good part of the land annexed by Israel was not 'densely populated' by Arabs....it 'belonged to others', yes, but losing it's the price of being defeated in a war they started.
Surely Hamas & Hezbollah are capable of controlling any smaller groups, especially if they're the big dogs on the block…they know that if they let them do what they want, retaliation is guaranteed…or maybe they don’t care whether innocent civilian Palestinians are killed. Probably think it helps ‘their’ cause.
Imo, Ilhan /Tlaib aren't on a rational mission to convince the American people that Irael is a bully, 'n Palestine a victim. To me, deep down they hate the US, 'n it's their sick idea of revenge, by distorting /exaggerating facts, to incite discontent - where freedom allows them to - to divide 'n plant doubt in the heads of the tons of idiots out there.
Not everyone agrees whether Jerusalem is 100% of Jewish, or of Palestinian origin - or a combination - but nevertheless it is Israel's capital, and DT is not spreading hate by moving the embassy. It's only a building.
“Concealed carry” hasn't been proposed here, so why does the press even suggest it ?
Just twisting the facts...
@JB
May 13th, 2019 - 11:45 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “PT didn't create the current pension system, they just failed to reform it”:
That's NOT all! They DID fail in many more aspects. I don't need to repeat what everyone already knows.
REF: Jerusalem: Commercially; it has zero importance. So do many “Occupied” Territories. In isolated cases, they may have Defence/Political/Religious importance. However, the vast majority of them aren't worth much.
@:o))
May 13th, 2019 - 04:11 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The PT managed to get elected in 2002 based on false promises, or ones they couldn't keep....such as reforming the pension, tax, political, administrative, and labor systems ....how many did they deliver on ? NONE. They also appealed to the hungry by inventing the “zero hunger” theory.....which after 18 months had to be abandoned, as didn't work and was a source of fraud. Nothing new there.
As to the location of Jerusalem, it is in the middle of Israel, the Israeli government has declared it their political capital - which they have the right to do - and the palestinians think they have the right to be offended and feel attacked by such a move.....having a city inside a country, and being divided politically between a State and a wannabe State, can't end well, especially if they are enemies. But the fact remains, the US recognition of Jersalem as Israel's capital, is the right of the US....in practical terms, what does it really change for the Palestinians ?....quite frankly, sounds like they are looking for hair on eggs.
@JB
May 13th, 2019 - 05:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“IF they had, as promised, today, we'd be 15 years passed the hurdle.”
True. But maybe you should be glad they didn't, since you might have had to work longer or been left with a smaller pension if they had done the reforms 15 years ago.
“contributed to spreading a culture”
What kind of culture?
“a good part of the land annexed by Israel was not 'densely populated' by Arabs”
A good part of Israel isn't densely populated because it's desert. That just makes the fertile areas even more valuable and fought over. According to Wikipedia, 711,000 out of around 900,000 Palestine Arabs fled or were expelled from the territories that became the State of Israel. Then Israel passed laws to prevent them returning or claiming their property, or getting any compensation for its loss. The neighbouring Arab countries, who are so eager to 'help' the Palestinians by supplying weapons, were not so generous when it came to accepting the refugees. Their real interest is attacking Israel, not aiding their fellow Muslims.
As for Hamas and Hezbollah, I think you are right; innocent Palestinians getting killed helps their cause. But they've spent years teaching kids that Israel is the devil personified. If they agreed to any realistic compromise now, too many people would object and they'd lose what little legitimacy they have.
“To me, deep down they hate the US”
It's not a funny subject, but this made me laugh. It's such a stereotype among Americans that right-wingers accuse anyone who disagrees with them of hating America. Why does hating Israel (if they even do) equate to hating America? Should think they'd be more interested in helping Palestinians, especially Tlaib.
As for Jerusalem, it's not 100% anyone's, both Jews and Muslims have lived there since forever. Recognising it as Israel's capital would have been one of the benefits of making an agreement. That's the practical reason for objecting. But if words can spread hate, why can't a significant gesture do the same?
DT
May 13th, 2019 - 06:55 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“True. Maybe you should be glad they didn't, since you might have had to work longer or been left with a smaller pension if ...”
Don't think so. I contrbuted 37 years, far more than the minumum being advocated today (20 yrs). I contributed on the highest level possible, th4, whatever I would've had the right to, would be proportional....anyway, what the general public's gripe has always been, is the fact that civil servants / politicians are on the top of the pyramid - although they're meant to serve the people - and the latter have ridiculously high, imoral benefits compared to the rest of the population (99% ?).....back then, the complaints were much the same as today's, to get rid of unfair privileges....however, being in the middle of a populist government, am sure the politicians would exclude themselves from any serious reduction in benefits/privileges. Just fyi, today's average pensions for govt officials are : Congress R$ 29,195 ; Judiciary R$ 19,019 ; Executive R$ 8,853 ; private sector worker R$ 1,371...obviously, these figures are the average, which implies as you get to the top of each group, pensions can be far higher....except for the private sector, limited to R$ 5,800.
“What kind of culture?” I've told you b4 - a misogynous one, and in which killing is the way to settle most disputes.
“A good part of Israel isn't densely populated because it's desert”...that's neither here nor there...I'm talking of the annexed territories during the wars...the arabs started. You can thank the UN for dividing the land as they did in 1947. And you have reconfirmed what I said - arabs don't want peace, they want to destroy Israel.
“teaching kids that Israel is the devil personified”...Like the Argies are indoctrinated that the Falklands belong to them.
Forget the stereotype, concentrate on the 2 women 'n their actions/declarations.
Perhas Jews / Arabs are brothers...
The main difference is that the “words” are intended to spread hate....in the US. Imo.
“Don't think so.”
May 13th, 2019 - 10:35 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I read that they plan to increase the retirement age to 65 for men, that would have affected you. (In the UK it's being raised to 67 for everyone, my Mum has to manage without her state pension for 8 months now, because of this.)
Why does Congress get a bigger pension than Executive? But anyway, are they really going to cut pensions for politicians? I should think Congress will insist on changing that before passing the reform.
“I've told you b4”
You have, but I didn't know which (presumably bad) aspect of Brazilian culture you were talking about. Could've been the 'jeitinho brasileiro', or corruption. It's certainly an unfortunate thing to import.
“A good part of Israel isn't densely populated because it's desert”
My point is, it's misleading to say most of the land wasn't densely populated. Some of it was, and Israel took all of it, populated and not. The UN plan wasn't great, but it was a lot better than what the Palestinians ended up with. They'd be the biggest gainers if a solution could be agreed, but by teaching such extreme views, they make that nearly impossible. I'm sure indoctrination there is 100 times more than in Argentina.
“The main difference is that the “words” are intended to spread hate....in the US. Imo.”
Were they threatening anyone? Calling them criminals, saying they're going to hell or they're a threat to society? What?
@Jack Bauer
May 14th, 2019 - 07:22 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “based on false promises, or ones they couldn't keep”
A politician is yet to be born [obviously illicit/illegal] who keeps ALL the Election Promises. Let's say for the sake of simplicity, that the Election-Campaigns are somewhat comparable to the “Love during Carnival”!
The Mess that Brazil is in today; is the combined result of ALL the scandals of ALL the politicians whose 1º Aim is to milk the Public-Funds.
Maybe you and many others disagree!
As a matter fact; the Statistics-Agency IBGE can publish the monthly results of the Stolen & Wasted Public Funds to keep track of ALL the rackets, year after year!
The Masses [mostly brainwashed+retarded] would then finally realize that the Trapeze-Acts [Infamous Reforms] by a bunch of clowns will be ineffective till the siphoning of the funds is plugged - Effectively AND permanently!
http://www.chargeonline.com.br/php/DODIA//nani.jpg
DT
May 14th, 2019 - 02:21 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“I read that they plan to increase the retirement age to 65 for men”....I retired at 61, worked “informally” with wine for almost 3 years then was invited back to my previous company, where I stayed another 2 years, contributing. But because I retired at 61, 4 years short of 65 - which then, was also the minimum age for max benefits (plus min 35 years contribution) - my pension was calculated at 92% of the max. And, you have just confirmed that the age for retirement in the UK is being raised (for men, AND women), as people are living longer and the pension funds can't keep up ?
Congress gets more because “they” decide their own salaries, benefits etc...simple, eh ?
Regarding Israel, just to conclude this subject, if the Arabs declared wars on Israel - just because they didn't want them there - and lost...had to give up land etc - lump it. The notion that you can declare war ,lose, then expect nothing to change, is ridiculous. If you believe the Jews were favoured over the Palestinians, maybe it was because of the Holocaust (?)
Agree indoctrination amongst Muslims is far worse.....the Argies aren't exploding themselves to kill innocents/ to make a point.
Re Ilhan/Tlaib, you obviously haven't been following them sine they were elected....pls read 'a lot more' on them....while not 'threatening” anyone physically - if they had, they'd be in jail - they're far more subtle in their attacks ...like lying in order to create a reaction against those they hate....for ex., by standing on a soap box in Hyde park and shouting that the government is trying to kill the population slowly by contaminating the water supply, wouldn't that be tantamount to spreading hate against the government ? and perhaps create violence against those who are responsible for the 'supposed' contamination ? you'd be surprsied how hate can get others to do your dirty work for you.
Another ex., Lula and the MST....he threatened no one - physically - but the MST did.
@JB / @DT
May 14th, 2019 - 02:34 pm - Link - Report abuse 0The Meek may or may not inherit the earth but bullying [Plotitically, Economically+Militarily] definitely will! There no such thing as being FAIR; simply because justice DOESN'T prevail!
@JB
May 14th, 2019 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Perhaps they mean 65 will be the minimum age full stop in future. Banning early retirement would save them a *lot* of money, since they haven't been reducing pensions enough to compensate for the extra years paid. Rough estimate, you should've got less than 80% based on life expectancy in Brazil. If that had been the case, perhaps you would have still quit your job but not claimed your pension until 65, especially considering you were working informally (so it's not just poor people who do that!)
As for UK, yes, people are living longer, and the government has no pension investments. They pay pensions directly from taxes, so you can see the problem as the proportion of retired to workers increases inexorably. Why do you think they're so keen on working age immigrants? They help plug the gap, but only in the short term. Long term, only raising the retirement age can fix the problem.
I did say before I know the pension system in Brazil needs reforming, I just hope they can do it fairly.
“The notion that you can declare war ,lose, then expect nothing to change, is ridiculous.”
That is the rule nowadays, in the UN, even if not always followed. But if war is the way to gain and lose land, perhaps we should not be surprised when they resort to violence. And yeah, I think the UN originally gave Israel more of the (fertile) land to allow for immigration of holocaust survivors and other Jews suffering persecution.
Re spreading hate, I agree it can be done without direct threats. Many people would say Trump has been doing it to immigrants, for example. But I was wondering what the two women have said that's the equivalent of accusing the government of contaminating the water supply?
Lula and the MST is a bit different. Were they supposed to be literally taking orders from him, or merely influenced by him in deciding what to occupy, or protest against?
@DemonTree
May 15th, 2019 - 11:18 am - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “Were they supposed....................or protest against”
Isn't it customary to Take-Orders from a Leader - particularly if it's going to result in favor of the followers?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5zjzcuxZteM/T-ESWT1y2mI/AAAAAAAACx0/TIVUvwzRsxc/s1600/falemal.jpg
DT
May 15th, 2019 - 06:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Perhaps they mean 65 will be min age full stop in future”...'Perhaps', NO...that's exactly what it is...for men. Now, what men, at 65 haven't worked 40 years, or can quit b4 ? Only executives, businessmen etc, who are better off. Today, 99% of all poor people who work, already fulfil those conditions....those against the reform either don't know what the hell's going on, 'n don't care, or are radicals hoping the sh*t hits the fan.
Waiting to claim my pension at 65 would've been stupid...1st, what would I live off btwn 61-65? 2nd, by claiming it at 61, I gave up 8% on what I'd get at 65 ; that 'loss' was far less than the total I'd have 'lost' during that period, by not claiming it....did all the calculations, the decision was a no-brainer. The extra 8%, at 65, would never compensate the loss during the previous 4 yrs.
Anyway, the wine was just a hobby, not a money-maker.
“Long term, only raising the retirement age can fix the problem”...that's what I've been saying all along !
“But if war is the way to gain and lose land, perhaps we should not be surprised when they resort to violence”....yeah, but WHO started the wars ?? The Arabs...so they only have themselves to blame.
My example (water contamination) was just an extreme case to show how speeches or comments can influence people negatively, even if they aren't true. As to what they've said, pls look it up....afaic, they are not doing the US (not Trump) any favours by throwing their sh*t opinions into the fan.
Although the MST had no legal status (like for ex, an NGO receiving govt funds), the PT used govt funds very generously (millions per year), to finance their political activities (not agricultural), and Lula, while directing their actions behind the scene, which was obvious - he threatened, they acted - on several occasions he ranted publicly that he would use the 'red army' to show people what he meant. Why do you think they were so loyal to him ?
The MST only survived thanks to the PT.
@Jack Bauer
May 15th, 2019 - 07:51 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: PT/MST
You said it ALL!
REF: Pension-Reforms
I didn't understand.
Why not: “Those who earn more, pay” PERIOD?
Or does the survival of the country depend ONLY on the milking of the “Poor-PLUS-Dry” tits? As mentioned earlier:
The Mess that Brazil is in today; is the combined result of ALL the scandals of ALL the politicians whose 1º aim is to milk the Public-Funds! NO reform can be of ANY use till the siphoning-off of the Public-Funds is plugged - Effectively + Permanently.
And this must be done by the masses themselves; since not ONE leader in his right mind will EVER want THAT!
@JB
May 15th, 2019 - 08:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Waiting to claim my pension at 65 would've been stupid”
Well yeah, because the current system is way too generous. Assuming you've made the min contribution, it should be calculated so that on average you get the same total money, whatever age you retire.
If that had been implemented back in 2003, it would have meant giving up much more than 8%. Would you still have retired at 61 if it meant getting 20% less each year?
As for people against the reform, we don't know which aspects they object to, since there are more changes than just increasing the retirement age.
Also, why is retirement age lower for women? If anything, it would make more sense to instead require less years of contributions, since many women take time off work to raise kids.
”afaic, they are not doing the US (not Trump) any favours by throwing their sh*t opinions into the fan.“
They probably are doing Trump a favour, since the right-wing love to hate them so much...
But do you think Trump's comments about immigrants are also spreading hate, and maybe putting people at risk? Eg:
”When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.“
Or saying immigrant gang members are ”not people“ but ”animals”.
Or in a rally when he asked how do you stop immigrants crossing the border, and a guy in the audience shouted “Shoot them”, Trump laughed and said:
“Only in the panhandle can you get away with that statement.”
As for the MST, sounds a lot more direct than merely influencing opinions if Lula was really funding them. But they haven't done much about Lula going to jail, or B's election, have they?
@DemonTree
May 16th, 2019 - 03:08 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “But they haven't done much about Lula going to jail”:
Were they trained to do NOTHING till they get paid up-front?
DT
May 16th, 2019 - 03:25 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“Well yeah, because the current system is way too generous.”...presume you mean only to civil servants (?) If it weren't for the distortion in the public service retirement rules, the system is pretty logical....at the moment, the factors that determine yr pension in the private sector are the number of years of contribution (including on which level), 'n your age...if you haven't fulfilled one condition (35 yrs contribution) or the other (65 yrs old), or neither, you'll go losing points on a progressive scale, which'll determine your pension when you claim it. The public sector rules, voted by the politicians, favors them, on average 6 to 7 times, over the private sector. Presumed you had understood this.
The notion that people can contribute much more than others (based on salary/years contributed), then at the end “all” receive the same, is ridiculous.
“If that had been implemented back in 2003, it would have meant giving up much more than 8%”...and how do you know ? you are speculating with no basis. Anyway, IF, 'n a big IF, had things changed back then (unlikely v. much), that's just the way the cookie crumbles.
“As for people against the reform, we don't know which aspects they object to”....have you not been paying attn to what I've said ? 60% don't know what the proposals are, 25% don't even know it's being discussed, so what are those “highly-informed” idiots objecting to ? They are being misled by the unions.
I believe women will aslo need 40 yrs contribution for 100%...on the other hand, there are those who argue that having children...'n working...is a personal option.
Re Trump's comments on immigrants, many are true - which the Dems prefer to ignore (re crime, disease etc) - but yes, his comments can reinforce the feelings of those who are already against mass, uncontrolled immigration.
And since when aren't 'gang members' animals ???
Get one thing straight - Lula WAS funding them...and since they're not getting it anymore, they been less loud.
“presume you mean only to civil servants”
May 16th, 2019 - 08:03 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Nah. If they get 6 - 7 times private sector pensions, obviously that's the biggest part of it. But as far as I can see the rules on early retirement were also too generous. I looked up demographic info for Brazil so I could estimate what a fair reduction would be, based on average life expectancy at age 61. However, the fact it was a 'no-brainer' for you to retire early already proves the 8% reduction was not enough to account for the extra years paid.
Anyway, if you weren't already retired, you'd just have to put up with it and work the extra 4 years. The way things are going, I'll probably still be working when I'm 75, let alone 65.
“25% don't even know it's being discussed, so what are those “highly-informed” idiots objecting to ?”
I'm guessing the 25% aren't the ones objecting! For those who are, we don't know how well informed they are. It's not like everyone in Brazil is against the reform.
“having children...'n working...is a personal option”
It is, but as a society we need new generations, and we certainly need people to work. So it makes sense to encourage/allow for that in sensible ways. (I don't mean encourage people to have kids when they can't afford it, but ensure it's possible for average people without too many obstacles.)
Re Trump, studies show that excluding crimes like working with false SSN, illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes than US citizens. Most immigrants from Latin America are rather fleeing violence than perpetrating it. So he's doing just what you said on the other thread: lying/distorting facts to provoke a reaction. Spreading hatred.
“Lula WAS funding them...and since they're not getting it anymore, they been less loud.”
Hmm. Do you mean the PT were funding them officially through the government, or something more clandestine?
DT
May 16th, 2019 - 10:26 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Ok, if you mean that the system allowed people to retire at 40/45, with 15/20 years contribution, yes...too damned generous. And that has to change. Tough wake up call ? yes, but unavoidable.
“...already proves the 8% reduction was not enough to account for the extra years paid”. You seem to forget that it was the combination of 35 years contribution, at the highest level, and being only 4 years off 65, that made it possible /attractive to me, to retire at 61, and decide to not wait until 65. One combination in a million. Had I waited though (until 65), while sacrificing past revenue, I would have received 100% ; and in 2015, a change was made (to try to reduce the inequality btwn private 'n public sectors, 'n to be revoked by the new reform), which, if in effect when I retired (2009) I'd have gotten 100% as well. Afai was concerned, those were the rules in effect and no use speculating what might have been.
There you go....“guessing” again....the people who understand what the reform is about, aren't against it...they know, just too damned well what the future reserves without it...they might suggest a change here or there, but to be AGAINST it, no.
Society needs a lot of things, but these needs are limited by what is available....I am not suggesting people stop having children, but be more rational....not have 4 or 5 by age 20.
What studies show, is quite irrelevant to the fact that no country can afford to open the flood gates and let anyone in...the US has the right to allow in whom they choose to, and keep out those they don't want....and no immigrant has the right to ignore that...If their case is legitimate - fleeing from institutionalized violence - apply for refugee status and await their turn...the fact that tens of 1000s were trying to swarm over the southern border, bringing lots of potential problems, is not distorting anything.
The PT govt funded them officially, but illegally, thru the Ministry of Agrarian Reform. Satisfied ?
@Jack Bauer
May 17th, 2019 - 07:58 pm - Link - Report abuse 0REF: “The PT govt funded them officially, but illegally, thru the Ministry of Agrarian Reform”:
I'm sorry but I beg to differ.
There are many ways - apparently + more/less perfectly legal ways; to finance/fund/support any kind of operation.
There are advocates & chartered accounts who are highly specialized in setting up such perfect operations by charging the corrupt, hefty fees which are beyond imagination PLUS unaffordable to almost all!
Money Laundering? It's a child's play to set-up off-shore accounts, entities, trusts & foundations for inexistent persons & companies - the oldest of the old tricks!
So how on earth can the investigators find 100% concrete + indisputable proofs to fully satisfy the corrupt judges?
@:o))
May 17th, 2019 - 09:38 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I agree entirely that there are many ways to skin a cat....but in this case, the PT transferred money from funds destined for discretionary expenses within the Ministry of Agrarian Reform...in other words, funds which had no specific name-tag, and could be used, virtually as they pleased....provided, as one would expect, in some 'productive' activity, connected to agriculture....not to support a bunch of raggamuffins ('maloqueiros').
How did they transfer the money to the amorphous MST ? through 4 main NGOs controlled by the MST - Anca, Concrab, Cepatec, Itac and dozens of other smaller ones, which formed a network covering the areas/regions where they were active....Just the appearance of legality, but highly illegal.....just to attend the PT's objectives.
@JB
May 17th, 2019 - 11:56 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“You seem to forget that it was the combination of 35 years contribution, at the highest level, and being only 4 years off 65, that made it possible /attractive to me, to retire at 61, and decide to not wait until 65.”
I just looked up an online calculator for teachers' pensions in the UK. If you retire at 61 with 35 years' contribution, you get 81% of the full amount (agrees well with my estimate). And that's public sector final salary pension! The state pension has never allowed early retirement at all. I don't blame you for taking advantage of it, but I DO think Brazil's scheme was too generous to you as well. It would have been more sensible to equalise public sector pensions to the level of the private sector in 2015, but clearly other reforms are needed too.
“There you go....“guessing” again”
It was a joke. Someone who's never heard of the reform can't be against it, duh. And I was including those who object to aspects of it in my next sentance, so I'm not sure we really disagree.
“not have 4 or 5 by age 20”
Good lord, how does anyone manage that? But Brazil's birthrate is not that high nowadays, so the majority of people must be 'being rational' about it.
“What studies show, is quite irrelevant to the fact that no country can afford to open the flood gates and let anyone in”
Yeah, but it's very relevant to whether Trump's comments are untrue and might inspire hatred against immigrants. Enforcing the law and inspiring hatred are two different things.
@Jack Bauer
May 17th, 2019 - 11:57 pm - Link - Report abuse 0So the question remains the SAME: How on earth can the investigators find 100% concrete + indisputable proofs to fully satisfy the corrupt judges?
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!