MercoPress. South Atlantic News Agency
Beijing stern warning on Taiwan: China will fight any interference with reunification
China will fight anyone who tries to interfere in its “reunification” with Taiwan, Defense Minister Wei Fenghe said on Sunday in a combative speech peppered with threats against the United States over its military presence in Asia. Read full article
Comments
Disclaimer & comment rulesDon't worry China, you have Argentina's full support.
Jun 03rd, 2019 - 11:52 am - Link - Report abuse 0Maybe, China has better advantages in buying Argentina!
Jun 04th, 2019 - 01:31 pm - Link - Report abuse 0DT
Jun 04th, 2019 - 10:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0(Contn of “Bolsonaro calls protesting students, useful idiots..” (closed 1 week ago)
The ‘nordestinos’ accent is by far the worst…so much so, that sometimes it’s hard to understand them (the uneducated, well-understood…’n it’s no coincidence because the NE is the most backward region as far as education goes, with a few isolated exceptions).
I find that kids born here, of ‘nordestino’ parents, are already one step away from their parent’s accent.
In the US, you can hear various accents, and it’s not too difficult to detect their origin….Russian, Italian, Irish, Hispanic.
Don’t really know if “impregnating clothes with liquid cocaine” is common here…watch TV programs showing the fight against drugs in airports (Peru, Colombia, Guarulhos-SP, JFK, etc) and it’s still used, but when dogs are used to sniff the bags, it’s useless.
When we sometimes returned early from lunch, we’d sit around and talk about some current or interesting event that had caught someone’s attention…as we had no politically correct freaks in the office, we had the freedom to talk about anything without offending people’s sensitivity. If I recall correctly, that was the only thing that stood out like a sore thumb.
Most Portuguese spelling was easier as it’s more phonetic. Confusing ? not really, at that age you absorb things pretty easily, ‘n never really thought about it.
Two or 3 years later, started with French…then Latin…in a way, it was interesting to see where Portuguese ‘n French originated, and it all seemed to come together.
Indeed, using ‘whom’ incorrectly, i/o ‘who’ makes a red flag go up. When I was 13 or 14, I got pissed-off at myself for being scolded for making silly mistakes in French, simple things which I had never really bothered to learn properly, and used more instinctively. So, decided to take it more seriously…felt good getting it right.
Re “Silva”, it sounds better in Portuguese or Spanish, than trying to adapt it to English.
Poor Nordestinos. But aren't people from Portugal even harder for you to understand? It's kinda ironic, those uneducated people most likely have no problem understanding you...
Jun 06th, 2019 - 09:49 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“we’d sit around and talk about some current or interesting event”
I guess we talk about weird stuff too, but not smuggling drugs as far as I can remember. Perhaps they're a bit more on people's minds, in Brazil?
“no politically correct freaks”
And now you feel you have to watch your words in case you get in trouble for offending someone? I don't really feel free to speak my mind anyway, in a corporate environment. What if you piss off your boss or coworkers?
I'm jealous of you being able to speak other languages, It's pretty difficult to learn as an adult. I also did French in school, but we never got beyond asking for directions and ordering in a restaurant. No one in my class could actually speak French, and I'm sure we made a million mistakes. It's a mystery why they wait to teach foreign languages until you're too old to learn them.
“Re “Silva”, it sounds better in Portuguese or Spanish, than trying to adapt it to English.”
That's not surprising. The sounds are slightly different, even when written with the same letters. I have some German colleagues, and when I heard them talking from a distance, it sounded like German, but when I got close, I realised they were speaking English. They were using the German versions of the sounds, or something close to it.
@DT
Jun 07th, 2019 - 05:27 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“But aren't people from Portugal even harder for you to understand?” depends a lot on where their from, their level of education. For ex., my wife's niece's husband is Portuguese...sounds more Brazilian than Portuguese...
“It's kinda ironic....” yes, they understand, but just can't reproduce it correctly.
We might have been talking about anything....perhaps some news on drug smuggling triggered it.
“And now you feel you have to watch your words in case you get in trouble for offending someone?” in a few cases, depending on whom you're speaking to...they might even understand something diferently to how you meant it.....the degree of sensitivilty varies, but generally speaking, probably freer here than in the US...it's a problem when you get someone 'looking' for something to bitch about. No matter what you say, it'll be interpreted as they want it to be.
Subordinates might get pissed off because you called their attention or something, but my boss ? never, we all had the same mentality and felt free to speak our minds.
Once, when in Paris (1980, I think), I was walking downtown, and I stopped someone on the street for directions...I first asked in English. The Frenchman muttered something and kept on walking. Tried another, again in English...he replied in French that he spoke no English and turned his back on me...just to check if he was telling the truth I shouted after him, “go f*ck yourself”...as he kept on walking must've been telling the truth. I then tried Portuguese ...the reaction was totally different, trying to help, so I used a mixture of Portuguese 'n my best French...a success ! The fact I tried to speak French made them happy.
“Silva” adapted to English sounds like 'silver' (as u said), and in Portuguese, sounds like 'seal' does, in English.
In the 70s, I worked for a German Co for abt 3 months, 'n at board meetings - no idea why I attended - they spoke mainly German...If I knew what the subject was, I managed to understand a bit.
What about accents from the rural bits of Portugal? But understanding is always easier than reproducing. I can understand Scottish people most of the time, but I certainly can't do the accent and I doubt I could use all the words correctly even in writing. If your own accent is different, then using PR is a skill you have to learn, same for standard grammar.
Jun 08th, 2019 - 02:37 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“they might even understand something diferently to how you meant it”
That's always a possibility, and there are some people out there who are just looking to take offence. But I find it harder to stick to 'office appropriate' language than being PC, I doubt there's much I'd want to say that my colleagues would disapprove of. As for my boss, the main issue is how to tell him he's wrong without offending him. ;)
I've heard before that French people really hate speaking English, which would explain why you got a better reaction with Portuguese. But when I was skiing there in March I never had any problems. Most people seemed to speak a little and some spoke it well. Probably helped that it was a tourist region and not Paris - Parisians are jerks. And I didn't even try to speak French beyond s'il-vous-plait and merci; it's been so long that I've forgotten it all, and I had to keep reminding myself not to say 'gracias'. My brain seems to think all foreign languages are the same. :( Luckily one of my friends worked in Paris for a year and speaks French well.
I tried making google translate say Silva, and it sounded like see-u-va. Also Dilma starts with a 'J', which is so weird. Portuguese does sound way cooler than Spanish, though.
And lol at the board meetings in German, that does sound a bit pointless. Don't know how you could understand anything, I can't even understand old English:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfaEGU45lKA
DT
Jun 08th, 2019 - 05:17 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...accents from rural bits of Portugal”...not sure really, but I did notice in Lisbon, 'n amongst the better educated Portuguese in Brazil, that their diction is usually the result of their level of education, although suppose the regions they come from will always exert some influence. In a way, like our NE, where diction is lousy amongst the lower class.
The notion of having 'office appropriate' language” sounds a bit artificial...like PC, you can no longer say what you think...obviously, not saying you should call a colleague an idiot to his face, even if he is. I had no problem in telling my bosses they were wrong...if I thought/knew they were. Only one got offended - a short, big-headed Brazilian, who spent most of his time high, 'n strutting around the office like Mussolini, thought he was the cat's whiskers...after arguing with him, on 3 different occasions (when his opinions, had they prevailed, would've meant disaster), he finally got his way from the company president 'n fired me...big deal, in 2 weeks was employed again, with a better salary.
Yep, the French are frustrated that French isn't the int'l language....Their attitude towards the English is also probably due to the fact they spent a lot of time fighting each other - despite the Norman Conquest of England in 1066, the hundred years war and some battles won by Napoleon, they never got on too well.
“see-u-va” is forcing it a bit...the 'u' would not be very 'pronounced'. “seal” + “va” sounds much better....the 'L ' is slightly audible.
Dilma with a 'j' , while common, is no more common than with ( a hard) 'd'. Portuguese is a bit “softer” than Spanish.
The German company took me on as Assistant Marketing Manager, but as there wasn't much to do, after a while I got pissed -off, 'n realized I was wasting my time...and that it was time to move on.
Old English...sounds pretty bad, like some Eastern European language with a strong Scottish accent...got a couple of words, here 'n there.
“The notion of having 'office appropriate' language” sounds a bit artificial”
Jun 08th, 2019 - 06:52 pm - Link - Report abuse 0In my previous company, I was told not to say there was a problem, but an 'issue'. You have to be positive and have a 'can do' attitude. It's a load of bullshit, but what can you do? In my current job, the local team is great, but the upper management don't seem to know their arses from their elbows.
Lol at your Mussolini-like boss. Mine is not like that, but I've found it works better to suggest something and let him think about it for a while - then he often decides it's a good idea after all. I didn't know you'd changed jobs so often, either. Somehow I had the idea that 20 or 30 years ago most people stayed with the same company.
“the Norman Conquest of England in 1066, the hundred years war and some battles won by Napoleon”
Yeah, I can't think why we didn't get on... But despite nearly 1000 years fighting each other, it only took 33 years after Germany unified to form an alliance with France.
The funniest thing is when they complain about new words borrowed from English. Wouldn't that be just terrible, adopting vocabulary from another language? ;)
Re Silva, probably just depends on the accent of whoever they choose to do the voice. The English one is RP, but you probably get the American version, being in the new world. The 'd' turning to 'j' though... just seems so random. Which way do you say it? 'R' sounds more like 'h', too, and 't' like 'ch'.
Portuguese does sound softer than Spanish, and also Brazilians don't speak like they may never get another chance to. Don't know how anyone can talk so fast!
As for Old English, it sounds like Frisian, its closest relative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZGyISJ3djo
DT
Jun 09th, 2019 - 09:41 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“In my previous company, I was told not to say there was a problem, but an 'issue'”.
Nuts ! Am I glad that I've never had to put up with such crap. How are people meant to know exactly what you mean if you have to flower it ?
My last boss – the president of the company - and I got on pretty well, so much so that if I stayed in for lunch he’d knock on my door and tell me to join him for a drink (or two) in his office (where he had a fully equipped bar, counter and all). This was great, but when I hadn't eaten anything, usually went back to my desk a bit lightheaded...good times. Over 37 years I had 7 jobs I think. Last one stayed for 15 years (maybe the ‘bar’ did the trick), but earlier on in life, switching to jump ahead was well-accepted. Far quicker than waiting around for a promotion which could delay in coming. Obviously, later on in life, you come to value other things, besides salary.
I don't particularly like to pronounce Dilma's name (or Lula's), but when I have to, I use the hard 'd'....like in dumbass. The 't' like 'ch' is not used for everything. Like Brazil's soccer coach, Tite, people say Chiche.....In Teresa, ‘n other words, the 't' is like it is in English'. It's useless trying establish a rule.
You usually find that more educated people speak slower....as they've probably realized the benefits of being understood.
Frisian has sounds similar to Swedish, Russian, Portuguese (w/ a strong accent), and a few other unplaceable accents, but totally unintelligible
I got in trouble there a few times for being too honest. But people know what you mean all right, even if you use a euphemism. It's impossible to get away from them, seems businesses are allergic to calling anything by its common name these days. When I worked in a pub, my job title was 'bar associate', and bin men are called 'waste management and disposal technicians'.
Jun 10th, 2019 - 02:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I guess 7 over 37 years isn't really that many. Just wish I hadn't stayed in my previous job so long, moving is definitely the way to get pay-rises/promotions, as well as avoiding being stuck in a rut. Don't know how your boss managed to get any work done with a fully equipped bar in his office, but nice perk for you. It's definitely important to get on well with the people you work with, better to earn a bit less in a pleasant environment than earn more but be miserable all day.
Re 't' vs 'ch', that's confusing, but I suppose we do it in English, too. Tune = chew + n, tree also sounds like it begins with 'ch'. Teresa is a 't' sound, though.
Frisian is supposed to be the closest language to English, but it's totally incomprehensible. The romance languages like Italian, Spanish and Portuguese seem a lot closer to me.
I lol'ed at you not wanting to say Dilma, or Lula, but what do you think of the leaks on The Intercept, about Moro's team and his interference in the investigation?
DT
Jun 11th, 2019 - 04:40 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I've always believe you need to say what you think (in business), o'wise what's the point of having an opinion ? and, if someone cocks-up, you need to let them know they did, but in private 'n in an educated manner. Every problem, or “issue”, has to be addressed in the appropriate manner, and PC should not be allowed to intefere. Your title 'n others in the pub remind me of those used in Brasilia, in the Senate - the manager of the parking valets had the title of 'Director of Garages'...might as well have been a director, due to salary of US$ 5,000/ month...the supervisor of the elevator operators was “Director of Elevators” -presumably, because somewhere in their internal regiment, a 'director' (of whatever) was entitled to a higher salary'.
Regarding my jobs, spent about the same time in the first 5, as in the last 2. Would seem that as time went on, I learned to take the bad with the good...nothing's perfect. The bar was a great entertainment feature for clients, and for company parties.
Funny, I say 'tune' ('n 'tree') with a 't' like in Teresa.....“CHree” sounds a bit wierd.
Frisian, the closest to English....in what way ? suppose it has “barbarian” roots ? (Central Europe 2000 years ago ?). The Latin languages are far closer to each other, and phonetics closer to actul spelling. When I was in Japan, I learned quite a few Japanese words, but it was hard to distinguish them when spoken by my colleagues.
The leaks on the Intercept...sounds a bit like Wikileaks, except that the leaks divulged appear to have been taken out of context and doctored to sound incriminationg. But if to know in what context the loose sentences were said, and their meaning, the full conversations need to come out. And, if they are the product of hacking, they're totally illegal...nevertheless, the loose sentences prove nothing. On the other hand, the left-wing is already claiming foul play. Wouldn't be surprised if they aren't behind it. Anything to screw the Lavajato.
“I've always believe you need to say what you think”
Jun 11th, 2019 - 09:01 pm - Link - Report abuse 0I'd rather be able to speak plainly, but I don't make the rules. It's a hard habit to get out of, too. Implying and using euphemisms rather than saying things straight out. It sucks. Wish I could have had the pay of one of those 'directors' when I had that pub job, instead of minimum wage.
Re t vs ch, I worked out how to change the accent in google translate. Try this link and make sure it says '.co.uk' at the top:
https://translate.google.co.uk/#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=pt&text=chewn%0Atune%0Atree%0Aduel%0Ajewel
If it worked, 'schedule' should start with a 'sh' instead of 'sk' sound. And the rest will sound like how I say them. If I change the url to have '.com.br' instead, then I get American English and it does say those pairs of words differently. But 'tree' still sounds like 'CHree' to me, even with the American voice.
And if that worked, copy and paste this one for Portuguese from Portugal:
translate.google.pt/#view=home&op=translate&sl=pt&tl=en&text=leite%0Ap%C3%A3o%0Adinheiro
They say the 't' and 'd' alright. But anyway, it makes more sense now I realise those letters can change sound in English, too.
“Frisian, the closest to English....in what way ? suppose it has “barbarian” roots ?”
Lol, not barbarian; Germanic. English is a Germanic language. I guess it's 'closest' as in split from the same ancestor most recently, but since English has changed a lot since then, the resemblance isn't obvious. Maybe it's easier for eg Germans to understand some Dutch?
Re the leaks, the people concerned haven't denied saying those things. It confirms what I strongly suspected, that Moro and the prosecutors were more concerned with preventing Lula from standing for election than with justice. Dispensing justice unequally is itself a type of corruption, even if it's not for monetary gain - and Moro has personally benefited greatly from jailing Lula, probably more, or at least quicker, than he ever expected.
@DT
Jun 12th, 2019 - 04:53 pm - Link - Report abuse 0“...but I don't make the rules.”...as an individual, “alone”, you don't...but if collectively everyone lowers their head w/o complaining, it's tantamount to accepting whatever's thrown at you.
Opened the link...what appeared (w/ '.co.uk' at top) were 'chewn, tune, tree, duel, jewel'...all as I say them : chewn with 'ch'; tune & tree, with 't' as in Teresa; duel with a hard 'd', as in dumbass ; jewel with 'j' as in 'dj'. Tried 'schedule', in the UK 'sh', in the US 'sk'...I use both.
In the link to the POR pronunciation, sounded like Brazilian Portuguese to me.
Yeh, I know English is a Germanic language, but when Rome was at it's height, weren't all the Germanic tribes in Central/North Europe, such as Goths, Huns, Saxons, all considered barbarians ?
One of my directors was Belgian, 'n spoke, besides English, Spanish 'n Portuguese, also German 'n Flemish, 'n had no trouble in communicating in Dutch.
The leaks - out of context, 'n fm 3, 4 yrs ago ? - make it hard to remember what was said 'n even if said, but Moro has volunteered to appear before Congress to answer questions, presumably after being given access to the full (presumed) conversations, 'n proof that the leaks aren't just doctored excerpts, which can mean whatever you want. Under those circumstances it's virtually impossible to state those words weren't said, 'n if they were, in what larger context ?
But not wanting to pop your bubble, Lula was already on Lavajato's radar (2015, D just re-elected), long before he himself had considered the possiblity of running again, 'n far less announced any such intention....that is one thing that the left refuses to admit, trying to put the cart before the horse. Just like the left's insistence that B's intention to offer Moro a seat on the STF in 2020 is part of a conspiracy (in 3 courts) tt started back in 2016/17, when B 'n Moro didn't even know each other...there was no conspiracy 'n intentions would go nowhere if the proof against Lula weren't solid.
I guess the links didn't work. Shame. I can hear an obvious difference between the Portuguese and Brazilian accent; PT makes 'leite' sound almost like 'late', BR it's 'lay-chay'. 'Dinheiro' has a hard 'd' in PT, a 'j' in BR. And same with UK vs US English. 'Chewn' and 'tune' sound totally different for the US speaker, likewise 'duel' and 'jewel'. For the English voice, they're hard to tell apart.
Jun 12th, 2019 - 07:12 pm - Link - Report abuse 0Sure, the Romans considered those tribes barbarians. They also thought watching Christians get fed to lions was a fun day out. Is that what they teach in Brazil, that Germanic languages aren't as civilised?
Re the leaks, you could look up in the papers what Moro said at the time. But I remember you telling me Moro wasn't directing the inquiry, didn't decide whether/when to charge Lula... turns out he was pulling the strings after all. At any rate, if what Moro did was illegal, they can show the full transcripts to the court.
”Lula was already on Lavajato's radar (2015, D just re-elected)“
I can believe it. But him standing again was always a possibility, and I'm sure they wanted to take him down anyway: wouldn't you? When Lula announced his intention to stand, that just made things more urgent from their point of view. Hence the rush to go to trial on one case at least. I'm sure preventing another PT government was a goal in itself for Moro, but he was also building up his own reputation, becoming the famous, crusading anti-corruption judge. Remember how he said he wasn't planning to go into politics? That didn't last long.
”intentions would go nowhere if the proof against Lula weren't solid”
With Moro as judge? How hard is it to convince a man who's already made up his mind? All he needed was enough evidence to a make a guilty verdict plausible. Then it's just down to the 3 appeal judges, who may be impartial - or not. The STF didn't look at the evidence, only the legality of jailing someone before all appeals were exhausted. It's all dodgy as hell.
Commenting for this story is now closed.
If you have a Facebook account, become a fan and comment on our Facebook Page!